Thread 12023531

Can we tackle this elephant in the room?
Without triggering any alerts, there are a total of about 20 guards in the game.
That’s not enough is it?

>That’s not enough is it?
Yes it is.

Play the VR missions

Nobody can tackle elephants, they're too powerful

Yes, without triggering alerts there are 20~something actively patrolling guards in the facility. These numbers get a bit denser once snake's presence is revealed to everyone as the story progresses.
Not every soldier would be patrolling all at once, they're busy doing shit off-screen like helping Vulcan Raven prep his minigun or jerking off outside of Meryl's cell

the gameplay sections are supposed to be little challenges linking the cutscenes and story

>>12023531 (OP)
they're very good guards.

There are only 35 zombies in RE1.

>>12023531 (OP)
MGS2 has 59.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DZTCeD0FFY
So 20 would be low indeed.

>>12023583
Does that count all the enemy at the end that you kill with the sword ?

>>12023583
Also I had wanted to link this video to a recent MGS3 thread where someone explained at length why they think 2 had better gameplay than 3.
In 3 you can't run past sentries like this - that's why a lot of people get into the habit of crawling on the floor (like a SNAKE) but that's a habit, and you can still use running as a method of stealth in 3.

>>12023590
It doesn't. I guess no point if that's a permanent alert phase.

>>12023531 (OP)
It's a trash arcade game with exposition dump cutscenes sprinkled in between, cooked up by an ESL idiot who knows nothing about American military.
A game where characters blink after being damaged is not one you take seriously.

>>12023531 (OP)
It's a fairly small game, I don't see why you would need more

Do they ever mention how many genome soldiers there are?

>>12023531 (OP)
If I remember correctly, there's also a limit of only 3 guards in any given room, and about 8-10 rooms where you do any sneaking at all

Over the years I've felt the best reason to recommend playing 1 is because it makes 2 that much better to understand.

I'm gonna filter that phrase. You know which one.

>>12023686
Don't do it, anon. What if I make a good thread, that uses that phrase? Think of what you'll be missing. I haven't filtered a thread for 10 years.

>>12023531 (OP)
>That’s not enough is it?
Depends.
>Can you beat the game without killing and getting spotted?
>Can you do it easily?
>Can the average player?
If the answer to any of these questions is "no", then it's enough.

>>12023531 (OP)
The game is extremely greedy in actual contents, it's nothing but kojima wanking himself.

>>12023531 (OP)
it's enough for the game

>>12023531 (OP)
>Is it enough to get by without feeling obviously unfinished or barren?
I would say mostly, the only thing that really feels odd is there only being a single random guard in the rex hangar. 20-21 guards gets the game just over the finish line with all the story material and setpieces.
>Is it enough for the stealth mechanics to feel like more than a half baked novelty
yeah different matter, on replay you definitely notice how shallow those segments are overall if you're looking at it with a critical eye.

>>12023531 (OP)
With Metal Gear: Solid the less is more

>>12023531 (OP)
Why would there be more? You aren't triggering alarms.

>>12023531 (OP)
>That's not enough is it?
Turn the map off coward.

>>12023531 (OP)
They should've just put all 20 guards in the first room. He never would've gotten past them then.

>>12023814
No, it's not, which is why there's so much shitty backtracking.

>>12024051
It has less shitty backtracking than the previous two games, and there was less going forward.
>>>/v/

>>12024051
People complain about the backtracking but it's really not that bad. Just from the way stealth games work, going through a room backwards is a different experience, even if you ignore the fact that some of the guard placements and rooms DO change when you backtrack through them.

>>12024051
the backtracking is fine

>>12024061
>it's really not that bad
Yes, it fucking is.

>>12024112
In the bizarro dimension maybe.

Do you have any of the boxes to fast travel by the time you have to do any major backtracking in MGS1, like getting the sniper rifle? I can't remember.

>>12023583
Counting by dog tags there are more. It also depends on which difficulty level you are playing.
https://www.ign.com/wikis/metal-gear-solid-2-sons-of-liberty/Dog_Tags_Guide

>>12023531 (OP)
It is enough because the game's default camera was designed in a way that the player can't see what's in front of him.
It works well also considering the amount of stuff and detail that's on screen at any given moment. I imagine there could've been perfomance issues if more genome soldiers on each are were the norm.
Either way, with the hardware jump towards the PS2 the franchise quickly increased enemy count and added many more things that would have been impossible or very costly to implement on the first Playstation.
Just appreciate it for what it is.

20 guards sounds like it'd be half as MG2

>>12023531 (OP)
The main issue with this game is that the heliport at the beginning is the best stealth area in the game. Talk about peaking early. And it's not even that great compared to some of the areas in MGS2 and MGS3.

>elephant in the room
But this is not a Sonic thread.

>>12023620
"ESL" only applies to immigrants.

MGS isn't a stealth game. It's secretly an adventure game/visual novel.
The stealth gameplay is all segregated to VR Missions.

>>12024910
Even in VR missions you spend more time shooting guys or targets

>>12025229
It's stealth action game not just stealth

>>12023531 (OP)
How many are in the second game?

The problem isn't the amount of guards. The camera and gameplay were not designed for a large amount of guards per room anyway.
The real problem with mgs is how little actual levels there are and the forced backtracking through them multiple times. The game would have benefitted from having its length cut by 1/3.

>>12023583
WHY ARE YOU INSULTING MY FAVORITE GAME????

DELET THIS

>>12023531 (OP)
They're in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, how many guards do you think they need?

>>12023531 (OP)
don't patrols respawn or was that a twin snakes & MGS2 thing?

>>12023592
eh the video >>12023583 feels more like memorization of pathing to the point where it crosses into the "solved game" territory and isn't really funn to play anymore.

>>12024051
I like backtracking to some extent because it makes the places make for real in the games and not just a tube you from one end to another, especially when there's usually a different perspective when you backtrack or something has changed. Obviously the key card backtracking is just silly where you climb the ladders 8 times or whatever, that's just padding when the game is about to end soon.

>>12024053
>>12024061
>>12024112
It doesn't do it well. Cope.

>>12027417
?
it does