Thread 12026638

How many of you got stuck in this damn pit and had to look up online how to wall jump?

Looking it up online barely helps anyway. You just have to get used to how it works

>>12026638 (OP)
>look up online
There was no "online" for me at the time. I got stuck in the pit, tried to figure out what to do after school a couple of days, then restarted the game. I still managed to beat the game, eventually, without ever learning wall jumping.

It wasn't until a few years later I came back to replay and forced myself to try everything to learn how to wall jump that I mastered the trick.

Me. I'm a zoomer who grew up with New Super Mario Bros. on DS, where wall jumping is a meaningful game mechanic. Wall jump controls in Super Metroid felt completely opposite to the way I was accustomed to in other games, grinding the fun game to a hard stop in this pit. This is why I can't call Super Metroid a flawless game.

Fuck this shit. Uninstalls.

>>12026638 (OP)
I played it for the first time on a emulator in the early 2000's and figured it out myself after 15min or so
Wonder if keyboard made it easier or harder than dpad, but either way I didn't find it too hard to learn

The most bizarre thing is that this is the only point in the game where the wall jump is required. The tutorial that teaches you about it. And that's it, everything else is optional usage.

>>12026672
What is this gibberish? To wall jump you spin jump towards a wall, key Samus drop a generous fraction of a second (not that precise), push the d-pad in the opposite direction and jump again, then repeat. It’s just about timing and rhythm. I think if they’d added a frame of animation of her majesty clinging to the wall during the phase a jump is possible then no one would have any issue. It’s been a while but I think that’s how the little green dudes are presented.

It took me a few minutes to stop timing my button press exactly with my changing dpad press, once you understand that you time the jump button press with Samus' pose where her hand and feet are against the wall then it's easy and the replayability skyrockets due to the sequence breaking that you can do.

>run and jump into wall
>press away and and then jump
wow so counter-intuitive. how did anyone ever figure it out?

she literally has a special animation that you can see and use as a visual cue, if you just so happen to be completely retarded. nvm the annoying animals that are stuck in the pit with you and whose sfx literally give you the "rhythm" which isnt even that precise to press the buttons

i wish they put in more shit like this, in other games too, so that all you smoothbrains wouldnt be able to play them at all. put it in the intro because fuck you. actual game-journo-playing-cuphead-intro-tier players

>>12026672
It's real simple when you realize you spin jump near a wall and the game wants you to "push off" the wall by holding the other direction and pressing jump. I think Megaman X might've hurt adoption of Metroid wall jumping because it's the opposite there, you want to cling to the wall and press jump to push off and move back to it whereas in Metroid it's the reverse.

>>12026686
its optional. but after you get out of that pit, youll have learned it well enough to the point that you can now use it everywhere. and its insanely useful everywhere

>>12026638 (OP)
As a kid, I stubbornly managed to get out using bombs. I'm not really sure why I found the wall jump so hard to figure out and execute at the time, since it seems really obvious and simple now.

>>12026686
It does unlock a number of techniques to get places far earlier than you would've though.
>Can get to the "gauntlet" room from the landing site without speed booster or an infinite bomb jump, letting you pick up three items from there.
>Get into X-Ray without the grappling beam, provided you're quick and have enough energy tanks.
>Get into Kraid without high jump.
>Technically able to get into Wrecked Ship, assuming you can do an incredibly precise wall jump off the missile pickup in the moat.
>Get Mama Turtle items without grapple.
>Get out of Draygon without speed booster or gravity jump.
>Get out of Worst Room in the Game in Norfair without space jump.
>Do reverse Amphitheater in Lower Norfair.

None of these are required but they all save time if you can execute them or let you sequence break.

>>12026778
same. I managed to wall jump once but I couldn't replicate it, and I had already practiced bomb-jumping a lot trying to get to places I wasn't supposed to go

>>12026638 (OP)
I literally just started a new save file and avoided ever going back there.

>>12026747
Capcom did wall jumping infinitely better with Mega Man X. Making your controls purposefully retarded when the competition already perfected it, is just being intentionally faggy.

>>12027045
>Mega Man X
couldnt possibly disagree more
MMXs walljump is maybe the least engaging walljump in all of /vr/
if you had said ninja gaiden, sure, those at least have okay walljumps. and it fits with the ninja-feel of the game/character youre playing as.

but MMX? no way. actual trash. youre basically just holding into the wall and hitting jump whenever to climb. doesnt even feel like a wall jump, since your usually just doing it into the same wall. its the clunkiest, slowest shit ever. you shouldnt be able to casually grind slowly down the wall and press jump whenever and execute whats supposed to be a feat of acrobatics for your character. thats ridiculous. least of when, in super metroid, its basically a secret/hidden special move. you dont need it at all to progress anywhere. its supposed to be discovered, and then experimented with afterwards.

thats what makes this stupid little well with the critters in it one of the best things in vidya. not only does it regularly filter faggots like you like a clock, but its one of the only power-ups i can think of in vidya that you actually "learn", instead of simply "receive", from the game. you make it out of that well and youre now far stronger than when you trapped yourself in it. and the coolest part is that, at that point, you might even realize it.

>a bloo bloo muh controls
m8 it is literally two inputs
>jump into the wall
>jump out of the wall
she even clearly haws a different animation showing you the like half a second window you have to press jump to execute it
they could not have made it any easier without making it entirely un-engaging
quit being such a scrub

>>12026638 (OP)
The physics of the walljump in SM as well as the execution was ALWAYS very awkward and even downright BAD, as it legitimately doesn't work even when done right sometimes, like if there's drop inputs or something, but the only reason was kept that way was because one of the devs was an asspie who demanded it to be kept that way, why do you think Zero Mission got carried away with those aggravating Shine Spark puzzles.

>>12026646
Except more then often the manual was useless or simplified in details and hidden mechanics.

>>12026747
>>12027045
Well Nintendo were copying from SEGA and Shinobis 2 and 3 with that shitty double jump that only comes off if it feels like it AND also DROPPED INPUTS

>>12027251
Walljump isn't that bad, but space jump is absolute crap. If you wait just a little too long in your spin, it stops working. Sometimes it doesn't work anyway when you're on your upward trajectory. Your only option is to spam jump while using it, except if you just rapidly mash it you'll do a series of short hops and gain no height. You have to press jump in a rhythmic motion, giving enough time to hold the button down each time to see if you actually jumped or not to gain height.

Wall jumps are forgivable because at least they're mostly consistent, the only ones that might be frustrating are the really hard ones anyway like getting up to gauntlet where you have to be a certain distance away from the wall to not bump the terrain and fall. Space jump is so bad that most people who pick it up just do wall jumps anyway because it doesn't eat inputs.

>>12027226
I'm someone who didn't know the walljump existed before. I've been trying it, and while I can do it consistently, it doesn't really work very well, and it doesn't feel good to do.

>>12027226
>the clunkiest, slowest shit ever.
It's faster than metroids.

>>12027226
99% of the people who do figure it out/know how to do it, still say
>that's retarded, why would they do it this way?

I don't like metroid or castlevania games. Sorry if that triggers you guys, it's just not fun to me.

>>12026638 (OP)
I remember struggling with this section, but I always thought it was because I was using an LCD.
>>12027045
Mega Man X's walljumping is way better than Super Metroid's.

whatever this pit is it left such little impression on me that I don't even remember it despite playing super metroid for the first time 2 weeks ago

big skill issue situation?

>>12027226
The reasons you cited are exactly what make MMX's walljump execution good. Fuck making it difficult for no reason. If I'm playing a character that's badass enough to jump off of walls, I want it to feel effortless.

>>12028229
Or you didn’t fall in it, you daft bugger

>>12027672
Yeah, this took me a bit longer. Similar to the wall jump tapping jump just after samus starts her downward arc. Changing directions is the biggest pain. Been a while but I think you can do it against walls though

>>12027750
Please stop making posts like this and shitting threads up. Please. I beg you.

Those three little guys are demonstrating how for you over and over again what’s to look up?

>>12026638 (OP)
I got stuck in there back in the zsnes days and it took forever to jump out but I eventually got it. Couldn't look it up cuz no interwebz(I downloaded zsnes and all the top roms on emuparadise at a friend's house, that shit was so cash).

>>12028285
unlikely, I had over 100% map exploration

>>12026638 (OP)
I was amazed that avgn never mentioned this when they recently did a super metroid vid. As a kid I found the wall jump segment the single most frustrating and shitty part about super metroid by far and not a single mention of it by james

>>12026672
You don't have to hold the run button, this stinks of autistic speedrunners making a tutorial.

>>12026638 (OP)
>Face wall while spinning
>Turn away from wall
>Jump within 9 frames of turning away from the wall (still holding away from the wall)
It's pretty straight-forward if you understand what you're doing. Though that's not to say it's perfect.

>Can't jump on the same frame as you turn around (Super also has an extra buffer frame on top of that) so it's closer to an 8 or 7 frame window.
>Super will cancel your spin if you aim diagonally up/down which is very easy to hit on the d-pad. Later games only stop the spin if you aim straight up/down which is more lenient.

>>12026638 (OP)
as a (above average IQ) ten year old, it was immediately obvious what had to be done, but chaining them was very difficult and took a lot of attempts. There is no ambiguity - the monkeys jump into the wall, cling for a moment, and then away to the other wall. The player will jump into the wall, then press away and jump. Either they get a successful walljump, or Samus does her "cling to the wall" keyframe for a split second before falling, indicating that the idea was good, but the timing was off. You'd have to be a total NPC to not notice.

>>12029085
This cartoon depiction really shows how Samus jumps like an idiot.

>>12026638 (OP)
That was me. Then I came back to it a year later and beat the whole game. Was like in either middle school or early highschool. Felt good to finally get out of there and beat the game.
>>12026769
There's a save station in the room before it, right? So you fall down there, just save because why not, and you can end up stuck.

>>12029143
I want to see you try to be graceful while you spin uncontrollably in the air

>>12028771
Probably because he didn't play the game and was just given a script one of his slobs wrote.

>>12026638 (OP)
you lost your gamer card

>>12026638 (OP)
I already knew how to wall jump so I didn't get stuck.

>>12029329
>spin uncontrollably in the air
That's the idiot part.

>>12026638 (OP)
No such thing as online back in my day! Though the little niggas in your screenshot show you.
With that said, I use this as a test for D-Pad quality. The easier it is for me to wall jump, the better the d-pad.

>>12028230
Strange how people deny how good a wall jump Mega Man X has. To this day newer games like Micro Mages, Cyber Shadow, Hollow Knight, Super Meat Boy, Celeste, and The Messenger copy it. Nobody copies Super Metroid's wall jump. Even Nintendo corrected it with their subsequent 2D games.

>>12027226
>think of in vidya that you actually "learn", instead of simply "receive", from the game.
MegaMan X literally has the same exact kind of section that traps you in a pit that forces you to wall jump out of it, thus learning it as a key mechanic, and it does it all less than a minute after starting the game, without the need of some retarded jumping monkeys, with the player figuring it out on their own within seconds. Nintendo got absolutely shit on in this regard.

>>12026778
Same. Bomb jumped for like 45 minutes.

how do you get stuck here, exactly? the critters show you how to wall jump.

>>12029752
I haven't played MMX in a hot minute, but the walljumping in Micro Mages reminds me more of Super Metroid's in regards to how bullshit and frustrating it is.

>people actually complaining about SM's wall jump
>even trying to blame it on the game, claiming it's inconsistent when other people can do it just fine
When did /vr/ become so incredibly casual? That shit isn't even hard.

>>12029530
kek ok fair enough

>>12029143
>>12029530
Well if anything, it's not showing her spinning uncontrollable, it's showing her backflip with every jump, which is more reasonable. At least, that's my charitable POV; the motion lines might be indicating multiple speens.

>>12030149
No one is saying it's hard, they are saying it was designed retardedly.

>>12030231
>it's not hard
>I just cant do it consistently
>it's the game's fault
git gud

>>12030236
I can do it, other people in the thread have said they can do it, but the method of doing it, is retarded. I can jam my cock through the handle of my microwave door and tug to open it, it's not hard, but it is a very retarded method of doing so when more efficient options exist.

>>12030231

nah, from what i've observed, most people who expressed frustration over the years were the types to have somewhat sloppy D-pad habits. Watching new first-timers stream a run kinda confirm this.

they hold diagonals or up when jumping is usually what fucks them up from figuring it out faster.

>>12030241
Those "efficient" options are just braindead. Hold a direction and mash jump. Wowee, what gameplay!
How dare a game require pressing two buttons with precise timing to pull of an advanced move. Don't those developers know that we Gamers deserve movement served on a silver platter?
No wonder modern games are dogshit, you cattle are asking for it.

>>12030247
Those games with more "efficient" options, do more creative level design actually utilizing the wall jumping mechanics, than Metroid ever has in its entire history. When even the devs themselves stopped using the same input method in later games, its probably time to let go.

>>12030256
Super Metroid does do interesting level design with it but apart from thst one pit it keeps it entirely optional.
It's a fucking metroidvania. You're supposed to replay it and find new paths with these optional mechanics. It's not a dime a dozen momentumless spikes-everywhere precision platformer.

>>12027045
Batman on Nes perfected it in 1989.

>>12026638 (OP)

These fuckers give you a live tutorial on hos to do it. But I usually come back to this area after I have the space jump.

>>12030289
>It's a fucking metroidvania.
Metroid is not a metroidvania, it's Metroid. There's nothing "-vania" about it, it has zero "-vania" elements.

Super Metroid's walljumping is piss easy when you use it as a single wall jump. it's actually more difficult when you try to use it to alternate back and forth between the walls. Just use it to go up a single wall and you'll see how piss easy it actually is.

>>12032087
>he didn't find the dracula boss

>>12026645
This. Apologists always say it's easy but most of them have been playing the game on repeat for 30 years. Shit is janky.

>>12030996
This, Super Metroid has no excuse
>>12032154
Also this, do single wall jumps

>>12026638 (OP)
Does LCD lag make these jumps harder to pull off? I'm convinced that it does.

>>12033810
Nah, you do it on muscle memory, not reacting to what you see. I can do it just fine on emulator or real hardware with CRT, just takes a bit of adjustment between them as the timing will be lightly different.

do people actually remember their "first playthru" 30 years ago? i didnt even have a concept of a first playthru at the time and i have no idea if i played my first file all the way thru or started over or what.

>>12033848
Yes. Don't smoke weed, it ruins your memory.

>>12033848
People who lived very uninteresting lives still have playing Nintendo games as foundational memories.

>>12033848
Yes, I was stuck before the infamous superbomb glass tube for a week.

>>12033848
I only remember marathon playthroughs I had with my brothers, anything I played alone is kind of gone.

>>12034783
>too retarded to think maybe glass can break
sad

>>12026638 (OP)
I did back in the day. I had my friend/neighbor over one evening and he showed me that you can wall-jump, and also showed me the breakable tube. That shit blew my 11-yo mind.

>>12026686
not at all, you could bomb jump all the way up if you really wanted.

>>12026747
to me its exactly how it works in mario 64. never hear people complain about wall jumps in that game.

>>12026789
theres a ton more.
>get wave beam without grapple with a wall jump.
>get speed booster early without grapple beam
>get spazer early without grapple or high jump

theres got to be a shitton more, especially if doing a 100% run.

>>12029753
to be fair, so does super metroid.
once you get morph ball and go back up the elevator, the first big vertical room you SHOULD ascend using walljumps.

its just most normies didnt.

>>12026789
>>12036231
For me, this is what sets Super Metroid so far apart from other games in the series and other games that try to mimic it. I really love the idea of giving the player moves from the start of the game that they just don't know how to do, and "unlocking" them just means either figuring them out for yourself or finding a place in the game that teaches you how to do it. Being able to start the game over and get such a massively different experience now that you know all the hidden tricks is such a special thing that so many games lack. Every "metroidvania" relies so heavily on rigidly gating everything behind specific power-ups that replaying them kind of sucks because the experience is always the same and you have to go through the intended progression every time.

>>12036217
You don't press away to do wall kicks in Mario 64 (or any Mario game with wall jumps), you hold toward the wall while pressing the button and only pull away after the jump to press toward the next wall or aim at your intended landing platform.

It took me a while to learn to do the wall jump consistently, but now that I can, it feels good. I guess I'm just a sucker for advanced techniques that require a modicum of precision in timing inputs like L-Canceling in Melee. I understand not everyone feels this way and many would rather have a mechanic that is easier to execute with similar results.

>>12036909
New Game+ or having gates degated would fix these problems on Modern Metroidvanias but they almost never bother.

as a kid I made a new save
putting a save station in that area was mean of nintendo

>>12026638 (OP)
I figured this shit out on my own when I was 10 and I consider myself stupid.

>>12038734
rekt

>>12026638 (OP)
only part I got stuck at was where you have to power bomb the tube

>>12026638 (OP)
Why are zoomers unable to employ lateral thinking? Or lateral jumping?

>>12037630
I see what you're getting at with NG+, but it's not the same, because walljumping is something you can potentially discover on a first playthrough via experimentation and allows you to bypass power-ups or do things out of order. In NG+ you can't bypass power-ups because you just already have them all; you can do things out of order not by creatively applying advanced techniques, but just by virtue of having all the power-ups (e.g., in NG+ you could get to Kraid without backtracking for the high jump because you already have it, not because you creatively avoided it with a well-placed walljump). Other metroid clones and metroidvanias just need to be less afraid of allowing the player to bypass things in unintended or unexpected ways.

this is where I learned bomb jumping