Thread 12031635

what are the MUST plays? the ones with really good story and/or really good gameplay.
>inb4 none of them have a good story or gameplay

I mean, it's hard to say. People are going to try to slip in some tier 2 games like Lufia 2 or Shin Megami Tensei, but the real answer is

Final Fantasy VI
Chrono Trigger

and that's it for the 16-bit and before era.

>>12031635 (OP)
SMT 4 Apocalypse for gameplay. Unfortunately the story is pretty terrible.

>>12031659
*my bad thought this was /vrpg/
SMT 3 is /vr/ but less recommendable

Final Fantasy VII and Chrono Trigger are the obvious ones. But everyone has different tastes.

Earthbound
SMT 3
FF5

That's about it

>Tactical RPG :

Berwick saga
Fire emblem Thracia 776
Final fantasy tactics

>Classic turn based J-RPG :

FF7
Valkyrie Profile
Xenogears

>Action RPG :

They all trash

Ff8
Fuck the haters.

>>12031698
>Berwick saga
Poser-core slop

>>12031745
*poseur

>>12031635 (OP)
>really good story
to me music is part of the story and for that reason i would say ff7. all of these stories are kinda generic or just nonsense but the music/characters are really what makes them i guess. ff6 is also great. all my other favorites its hard to call them must plays really. i just personally like them. but ff6 and ff7 feel pretty grandiose and relevant

>>12031642
Lufia 2 is objectively better than FFVI.

Hipster Answer:
Terranigma

>>12031635 (OP)
FF5, 6, 7, 9
Chrono Trigger
Breath of Fire 4
Legend of Legaia
Skies of Arcadia
Xenogears
Dragon Quest 3, 4, 5
SMT2
Earthbound
G.O.D. Growth or Devolution
Jade Cocoon
Metal Max Returns
Thousand Arms
Valkyrie Profile

>>12031759
terranigma is weird, it honestly would have been better as a straight action adventure game without the RPG elements. they really only hinder the game imo. they just create problems like the level scaling which makes that one boss fuck everyone over unless they're at the right level, without adding anything meaningful

>>12031635 (OP)
Golden Sun

>>12031769
Can't believe I forgot Seiken Densetsu 3.

Suikoden 1 and 2.

>>12031642
Yeah what that other anon said, at least Lufia 2 doesn't go to shit half way through

>>12031635 (OP)
Pokemon Red

>>12031635 (OP)
Chrono Trigger
FFVII, IX and X
Suikoden 2
Super Mario RPG
Baten Kaitos Origins
Grandia
Vagrant Story

>>12031785
It's one of those "RPGs" made by people who don't understand or like RPGs, like King's Field.

>>12031635 (OP)
SMT Strange Journey

>>12031635 (OP)
how did they know

>>12031635 (OP)
Breathe of Fire III
Arc the Lad I
Arc the Lad II
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue

>>12031698
>They all trash
low testosterone detected.

>>12031867
You don't blend 2 things that have nothing in common

Action RPG are neither good action games nor good J-RPG

>>12031886
It's not that they have nothing in common, that would help the blend, it's that their essence contradicts the other.

>>12031859
Your mother should know

>>12031642
6 isn't even in the top 10 final fantasies. you have the same taste as reddit

>>12031635 (OP)
Disappointed we never got a wacky Japan-only RPG about The Beatles.

>>12031642
You can never go wrong with the classics.

>>12031642
youre missing earthbound which is better than both, and I would arguably throw PSIV on that list too, but otherwise I agree. some might say dq iii or v but personally Ive never understood how those games are even in the same ballpark.

>>12032650
Earthbound is shit tier.

>>12031990
If you think that FF6 is in the top 15 FF games then you are a redditor

>>12031698
I really really wish I could like VP and XG. I SHOULD love these games. ps1 jrpgs are my favorite games ever. tri ace and pre merger squaresoft i ESPECIALLY love. I just fucking cant. the super shitty and slow battle system and boring monotonous dungeons in xeno. the disconnected episodic nature of VP where none of it actually matters to the real plot (it also has really shitty dungeons but a good battle system at least). fuck man. one day Ill force myself to play them again, but ive tried to do it twice for each and I drop it out boredom. theyre so beautiful and great sounding and Id probably love them if I could force myself through the beginning slog.

>>12031769
does breath of fire 4 get good after 25 hours because I played it for that long and absolutely nothing happened. "find ninas sister", "not here but maybe over there", "oh yeah and theres this fo lou guy too" with absolutely 0 challenging or interesting fights. its really pretty at least

>>12031769
>G.O.D.
my nigga. finally someone else who loves that game besides me.

since everyones list is shit so far heres the actual must plays
>ffvi
>ffvii
>ffviii
>ffx
>dq viii
>chrono trigger
>earthbound
>phantasy star iv
>star ocean 2
>tales of eternia
>parasite eve
>vagrant story (filters brainlets but just RTFM)

>>12031886
All the first Japanese RPGs, the ones that started the genre on JP computers, were A-RPGs, like Xanadu. Before Dragon Quest or before Wizardry was officially released in Japan.
They didn't even make the distinction between the two back then

>>12031635 (OP)
Dragon Quest 2. It's THE game that really started the "JRPG" genre as we know it. That is where most of the original JRPG tropes came from and it is only after DQ2 and its success that everyone else started making JRPGs too.

>The highest quality, most mainstream JRPGs:
FF6
FF7
Xenogears
Chrono Trigger
Earthbound
Persona 3
Dragon Quest 3

>>12031635 (OP)
Chrono Trigger

>>12032781
Yeah, they didn't know what an RPG was.

>>12032787
dont play this if you actually want to enjoy a good game btw. innovative =/////= good. 1, 3, 4 are all way better.

>>12034245
Every RPG you have played from Japan since this game came out is just this game.

>>12034245
>doesn't recommend 2 but recommends 1
?

>>12033723
Almost a good list but you put FF6 instead of FF5.

>>12034245
DQ2 is enjoyable. I mean if you can't handle the original then at least try the SNES remake

>>12031859
>>12031924
>>12032495
the beatles invented everything, it's like last thursdayism but the world actually started like 60 years ago

>>12034252
>ffviii is just dq2
low IQ take, one of them actually has an interesting story, settings, mechanics, music and artstyle and one of them is fucking dq2

>>12034272
White boy magic.

>>12034261
>t. Double digits IQ

>>12034282
Play more RPGs, faghetti spaghetti.

>>12031635 (OP)
ALL of the "classic" JRPGs are BORING. Every single one! FF7, Wild Arms, Suikoden, SaGa, Metal Max, SMT, Valkyrie Profile, Phantasy Star, Grandia, Breath of Fire... THEY MAKE ME WANT TO FALL ASLEEP. Yes, even XenoGears and Chrono Trigger are SNOOZEFESTS. I don't care how deep the systems are, I don't give a shit how crazy the story gets, and I especially don't want to hear more of this revisionist bullshit about how these games "revolutionized" the industry. I have tried to get into everything from Dragon Quest to Langrisser and IT'S NOT FUN OKAY? At least with Ys there's cool music, and I'm not COMPLETELY opposed to games with JRPG mechanics, but holy fucking shit! I feel like I'm going insane! Keep in mind, I'm not some Nintendo faggot, some of the first games I ever played were Landstalker and King's Field, but lo and behold it turns out most actual JRPGs are fucking SLOGS with barely any adventure to be had that doesn't involve VN-tier amounts of text and unskippable cutscenes. If you look at a top 100 list of all the best games ever made, like fucking 25 of them are JRPGs. Why? Out of all the genres, why does this shit have to invade everything? Because they "legitimized" videogames as an art form or some crap? Look, I get they're beloved, I can see the appeal and I'll admit I should open up my mind and retry the saves I've made...But enough is enough! DOESN'T CHANGE THAT THESE GAMES ARE FUCKING BORING!

>>12034286
I accept your concession

tactics advance is number 1

>>12034291
>I don't care how deep
But that's their biggest problem. They are extremely lacking in actual depth, all of their complexity consists of mostly fluff mechanics that don't change the fact that you're mostly just spamming whatever works in the moment because planning/resource management/positioning etc. are either irrelevant or non-existent in most of these games.

It really is an incredibly degenerate genre, that largely fakes the impression of depth in a way that works on people who start playing them as kids who get the impression that the stuff must be well designed on some level, but the truth is that this 'level' is Skinner box tier "number go up" stuff, and meaningfully considering tradeoffs is almost never necessary.

In a way it shouldn't be surprising, but my honest experience is that Dragon Quest as a series has the closest thing to genuinely thought out combat where using resources well at least in principle matters, because you at least have a limited pool of items in a given battle you have to manage, and games like DQXI lets you limit your level throuhg difficulty options. The way that most JRPGs don't even bother to do stuff like this makes them utterly degenerate crap with only fake strategy at best.

>>12035167
Doesn't make it wrong. The genre is full of slogs of nothing to meaningfully engage with.

>>12035167
>anti jrpg fags and mentally ill spammers agree with each other
wow who would've guessed

>>12035226
It's one guy.

>>12034282
>ffviii is just dq2

FF8 comes from an era where almost every JRPG was trying to reinvent the wheel but akkktsshuallly.... FF8 still retains plenty of JRPG tropes that DQ2 kickstarted

>world exploration
The open ended overworld. The fact that the world is gated at first and after each scenario it opens up a little more and each new area is bigger than the last, until mid way through the game at which point a boat is given to the player and overworld exploration really opens up with non linearility. This comes from DQ2.

>party members
Party members have their own stakes in the story and personalities to put them on the same pedestal as the 'hero', rather than being blank slates. DQ2.

>dungeon themes
Dungeons have varied themes rather than just being generic cave. DQ2.

>>12034245
Ah yes, the classic
>best selling, critically acclaimed and highly influencial old game is actually... LE BAD!!"

>>12031635 (OP)
If you a complete neophyte to the genre, I'd say Chrono Trigger. I'm not even particularly enamored by it compared to other games, but I think it has really great pacing and presentation compared to most other JRPGs. The difficulty is pretty stable with it, with the only spike I can think of being the first fight against Magus.

Final Fantasy VII is worth playing for similar reasons too, but its story is a more drawn out affair as the gameplay sections are longer with more random encounters. That can be a good thing though if you lean more into liking the gameplay of JRPGs. It's still fairly easy.

Shin Megami Tensei as a series doesn't have as strong of story as other JRPGs, it sits somewhere between a JRPG and a pure dungeon crawler. I recommend playing SMT1 or if you don't care about retro, SMT: Strange Journey, which does have a pretty great story. SMT is pretty great for the gameplay, being a more difficult RPG.

Honorable mention to Pokemon and Super Mario RPG, both of which are simplistic but still a good time.

>>12034291
Filtered.

>>12032787
Mugen no Shinzou 2 is likely more the originator of those tropes, predating DQ in its entirety, but you can't really say it started the JRPG genre as everyone clearly went on to copy DQ. Nevermind that both series clearly copy from their western progenitors, but those weren't officially released yet for the most part.

It's not exactly an easy recommendation for someone who isn't too into JRPGs (unless they like CRPGs) even if we ignore the language barrier though, so DQ2 it is.

>>12034867
At least you tried.

Play Final Fantasy IV (US FF2) and Phantasy Star 2. Both have a good story and absurdly simple mechanics. You can overcome any challenge in either game by either leveling or looking up where the best equipment is.

If those games seem bullshit or too difficult the genre might not be for you. From a pure gameplay perspective, most of the constantly recommended SNES and PS1 JRPGs like FF6, FF7, and Chrono Trigger aren't actually that great of RPGs, and are mostly fondly remembered for being tech demos for the hardware they were on. Mid 90s Square was style over substance.

If you like those two, you can safely check out the rest of the Phantasy Star and Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest series. Phantasy Star I and IV, and Final Fantasy 6 are a lot easier than the two I recommended, but again, if you can't get through FFIV/PS2 you're probably better off playing some other story driven genre like ddventure games anyway. The proper JRPG experience is something like, "I can't wait to find out what happens next, and what combat/dungeoneering challenges I'll have to overcome to see it!"

SMT gets recommended a lot, but it's more of a CRPG series that just happens to be on console. Has much more in common with Wizardy, Ultima, and 80s D&D games than it does Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy.

>>12034291
Check out Phantasy Star 2 and The Final Fantasy Legend (AKA Saga 1) for Game Boy. The dialogue and story in both are great and thought provoking, but it's accomplished with very small amounts of text. There's absolutely no filler. All you do in both games is explore and fight. As I said earlier, JRPGs are a turn-off to a lot of people because people only recommend these bloated mid-90s games that are trying too hard to show off Mode7 effects, summoning animations, and FMV cutscenes. The best JRPGs have none of that bullshit.

>>12035501
>and are mostly fondly remembered for being tech demos for the hardware they were on
lol

>>12031635 (OP)
Final Fantasy 4
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 7
Breath of Fire 2
Breath of Fire 3
Lufia II
Legend of Legaia
Chrono Trigger
Xeno Gears
All Dragon Quest games

>>12035485
>Mugen no Shinzou 2

Admitedly I haven't played it I will if retroarch supports PC-98 for AI translation and if I can find a good guide that details items/spells to help me through it, but it doesn't seem to have the mechanics simplification and art/sound design of DQ1-2, staples of the genre

I don't mean that DQ2 was the first to ever have some of those game design tropes and mechanics, only that it was the one that really kickstarted the JRPG genre

>>12035546
It does have simplified mechanics, it just clearly apes the look of CRPGs. It has some vestigial features like line of sight and food that really amount to nothing. The tropes I mean are things like gimmick dungeons, multi-stage final boss fight, class changing and menu-based controls. Overworld gimmicks like going "out-of-bounds" with a compass to find a dungeon is neat as well, but otherwise they are just the regular ship/flying thing which aren't JRPG exclusive. It's definitely interesting if you have an interest in early genres and is entirely playable.

I know NP21w does have a texthook feature, but I played the original PC88 version which is kana only which iirc isn't picked up by some similar implementations. Isn't the RetroArch AI translation feature just a screenshot+OCR thing independent of the actual cores? If that's the case it should work, just hope they rewrote the text with kanji for the PC98 version as otherwise I can imagine it won't have a clue what's actually written half the time.

There should be some guides out there as I remember looking up a few things and the PC88 download from Neokobe comes with a text copy of the manual and a quick reference with a spell list. I don't have a manually written item list so I guess I had no issues there.

>>12034291
Why did you post here if you don't like them?

>>12031635 (OP)
PSIV

earthbound and ffvii are the only ones I would call truly must plays. plenty of other good to great ones but you wont find any other game that matches the soul of those two.

>xenogears
not sure how a shitty, slow battle system, terrible dungeons, jewish plot and VN disc 2 is a must play
>dragon quest
maybe if you want to get put to sleep by the most generic story and setting ever made, over and over again
>SMT
maybe if you have an autistic love for grinding but for neurotypicals theres no appeal
>suikoden 2
1 is so much better in every aspect besides presentation its not even funny

everything else is fine. I really need to try out skies or psiv soon.