Thread 12098440

Are you buying the new Commodore 64, anon?
https://www.commodore.net/product-page/commodore-64-ultimate-starlight-edition-batch1
https://youtu.be/BffeaLbKHkw?si=1I2YLWNiYYVTQkha

>>12098440 (OP)
>three hundred and fifty buckaree dollary doos

Buy an ad

>And it's important to repeat that the motherboard is a heavily modified version of Gideon Zweijtzer's original design, which means this is not an emulator. It's a full hardware replication of the original Commodore 64 from Commodore.
This marketing BS needs to stop. FPGAs are emulators. Very good emulators, maybe, but still emulators.
Also, the website and ads are shit. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Yes

>>12098440 (OP)
Once the rev 2 comes out. I'm sure there will be niggles.

But yes for sure.

Unironically just buy a MiSTer.

>>12098440 (OP)
No, of course not.

>>12098836
This. Get a MisterPi and wedge case.

Absolute retards will buy the C64 retarded device. HDMI, yuck.

It's like those fuckers have no soul.

>>12098570
It doesn't have the drawbacks of emulators. For example, if you want to implement an floating point emulation different from the host system, you either map it to your system and thus lose precision or do it in software and lose speed. Everything is an compromise. On FPGA you recreate logic, I think that's the point of not calling it "emulation".
I'm not buying one though. They market it as C64 replica pretty much, which I'm not interested in. Would it offer more extendet features like Mega65 or ZX Next, I'd be more excited.

>>12098836
MiSTer gets a lot of hate for its spartan UI, but it's miles more convenient for Commodore 64 emulation than tweaking settings in VICE.

>>12098440 (OP)
>YOU VILL PAY $350 FOR THE PRIVILEGE TO PLAY 40 YEAR OLD GAMES THAT CAN RUN ON ANYTHING WITH A SCREEN AND YOU VILL LIKE IT

>>12098440 (OP)
Are you buying an ad?
https://www.4chan.org/advertise

>>12098836
MISTer doesn't do half of what this new C64 does.

>>12098975
A lot of people will get it to make demos and use the 48MHz setting and extra RAM to make 'em crazy.

>>12099115
>not knowing 4chan ads come in the form of viral threads
I suggest you visit /hhg/ sometime to see for yourself.

>>12099147
>A lot of people will get it to make demos and use the 48MHz setting and extra RAM to make 'em crazy.
I don't think so. That's not an interesting feature without additional ones like new video modes, more hw sprites, etc.

>>12098570
Wrong, an emulator is software that mimics a piece of hardware. FPGAs are hardware, that means they're not emulators. Doesn't mean they're better or anything, but this is basic terminology, anon.

>>12099201
In case of gaming and retro computing applications, FPGA is used as hardware that mimics other hardware. There's no shame in calling that approach emulation. People just feel like that word is dirty and start playing around with terminology to avoid association with it.

>>12099225
When you make hardware the reproduces the logic of another piece of hardware, that's a clone. AMD didn't emulate IBM's x86 chips, they cloned them. Misusing "emulator" like that is silly, even if it's meant to dissuade people from thinking that "not an emulator" means the logic is necessarily more correct or something

>>12099201
>FPGAs are hardware but my PC isn't
>tfw PC lards have transcended physical limitations
Uh, based and valhallapilled?

>>12099180
>That's not an interesting feature without additional ones like new video modes, more hw sprites, etc.
You have no idea what you're talking about, but thanks for playing anyway.

Nobody wants your shitty MISTer.

>>12099252
FPGA is not a clone of a fixed chipset, that's not how the technology works. It reads the hardware description language code which sets up the FPGA chip to act like a pre-existing chipset. It is not incorrect to say that FPGA is emulating a chipset it is programmed to replicate.
If FPGA was "locked" at a certain state at the factory, similar to how it's done with gate arrays which are sometimes used instead of bespoke ASIC chips, I wouldn't disagree in calling it a clone of C64 chipset. Instead, it is device which can be reprogrammed while operating to act in several completely different shapes. I fail to see how it is incorrect to refer to this behavior as "emulation".

is it haunted?

>>12099262
Your PC is not the emulator, it's hardware which runs the software.
>>12099272
It's reconfigurable hardware, yes, but that's not really relevant. It's normally used to prototype with, and you then turn the design into an ASIC. These mister type things are just foregoing the final step because the logic isn't finalized.
It's all kind of a moot argument, because 'it's an emulator" and "it's not an emulator" both tell you absolutely nothing useful about how accurate or whatever it is. Except if it's not an emulator because it's hardware, it will run a lot faster, but running the wrong logic faster isn't any benefit.

>>12099270
What makes you excited about the ability to bump up CPU speed?
Emulators can do that.
Did that produced demos or whatever?
No, it's not an interesting feature in and of itself.

>>12099286
Jotego, the guy who ports arcade games to many FPGA platforms including MiSTer (and submits pull requests to MAME to fix bugs nobody has noticed in over two decades), went into silly arguments against calling FPGA emulation a few months ago, arguing that by that logic Sega Mega Drive II is an emulator of Sega Mega Drive. The whole debate is absolutely stupid and serves no purpose.

>>12099293
It's faster than emulators, accurate ones anyway, and you have a huge amount of RAM too.

It's too big to fit in your MISTer so stop trying to sell it as a reasonable alternative. People all over the Internet are jazzed about this and no amount of MISTer marketing will put a dent in this market. It's a different market, Chang.

>>12099262
Emulators translate instruction sets to run on your PC, it's a software interface layer. FPGA replicates the actual hardware so it's running directly on it.

>>12099296
Well, he's autistic but correct
>The whole debate is absolutely stupid and serves no purpose.
Also true, except that being clear about terms is not stupid. And some people are using "it's not emulation" to >imply things that are stupid, which should also be dispelled, but not by saying "yes it is"

Every single PC ever is an emulator of IBM PC since they often do not use components also used by IBM in their genuine PC models.

>>12098892
It doesn't have the drawbacks of software emulation.
>>12099201
Oh no no no no...
Merriam-Webster:
>hardware or software that permits programs written for one computer to be run on another computer
Oxford:
>a device or piece of software that makes it possible to use programs, etc. on one type of computer even though they have been designed for a different type
Cambridge:
>a computer system that is designed to behave in the same way as a different system
Collins:
>software or hardware that allows one computer to perform the functions of, or execute programs designed for, another type of computer
I guess your autistic terminology isn't "basic" enough to be a definition in any major dictionary.

>>12099313
It's not emulation though.

>>12099301
>People all over the Internet are jazzed about this
I think a lot of them, like you, misunderstand what this is and will be disappointed
It really is just a replica with a turbo button, not an enhanced platform like Mega65, Commander X16 or ZX Next.

>>12099332
dumb frogposter
>>12099334
correct, but largely meaningless

>>12098921
>spartan UI
The mister is designed to run on an old piece of shit board that isn't produced anymore, only retards think it's going to have enough leftover resources to have one of those fancy flashcart interfaces while begging for Gamecube games.

>>12099430
Some people can't understand that while the FPGA side on DE10-Nano is sophisticated enough to simulate PS1, Saturn and N64 hardware, its supporting CPU side which runs the operating system and performs auxiliary tasks like loading floppies and CDs is equivalent to a 2000s smartphone. Analogue's devices built from the ground up for gaming run leaps around MiSTer in that department.

>39847 comments arguing about semantics
>no one actually interested in talking about C64 or C64 games
it will be a flop

>>12099439
The thread's not about C64 games, though, it's about the FPGA thing. You wanna turn it into a C64 games thread? I'd be down I guess

>>12099361
>It really is just a replica with a turbo button
No, it's also got a shit ton of RAM and total compatibility with all existing peripherals and add-ons.

I think you MISTer chinks are up shit creek in this little exercise, tilting at windmills.

>>12098440 (OP)
I kinda wanted to buy one of these, but that one anon who was sperging out and telling everyone to buy a MisterPi instead for half the price in the last New Commodore thread turned out to actually be right after I did some research.
>>12098863
It's got RF and DIN out too, but it's still stupidly overpriced. The FPGA and hardware should be about $100, and you're paying the rest of the money for a commodore logo and the keyboard.
The biggest problem with this thing is that a real Commodore 64 with cables hookups and a floppy drive usually only goes for $100~.

>>12099147
>not knowing zoomer shitposts comes in the form of my cope
Everyone knows that tho

>>12099485
>a real Commodore 64 with cables hookups and a floppy drive usually only goes for $100~.
That's not true.

>>12099510
How is it cope? The new C64 seems to be a pretty hot machine as far as nu-64's go. Are you a C64 owner already? If not why would you give a shit unless you're selling MISTer garbage? Which BTW is flimsy as fuck lol.

>>12098440 (OP)
Why the fuck is it $350? are LED lights that expensive?

>>12099676
Cheaper than a kitted out MISTer.

>>12099676
The beige (best) version is $300.

>>12098440 (OP)
>Are you buying the new Commodore 64, anon?
no. i have multiple real machines.

>>12098570
>FPGAs are emulators
shit bait

>>12099520
>That's not true.
here's one for $122US. I see a few more here for under $200. don't you retarded fucking faggots get tired of being wrong about absolutely everything in the universe? must be exhausting.

>>12100530
>with cables hookups and a floppy drive
Look up how much that costs.

>>12100539
nta but why bother with a floppy drive when you can get a kung fu flash for $10
there's not much reason to bother with an actual floppy drive these days

>>12100530

In Vienna one can have a working system(+disk drive or modern substitute) for around 200 Euros... which is a decent price.

>>12099664
>How is it cope?
Because you posted it and everything you post is cope. You couldn't even go one post without coping and bringing up your mister derangement.

>>12099485
Pretty sure I was the faggot calling everyone out to get a MisterPi plus a wedge case via a 3D printer or a friend who has a 3D printer. Being a paypig to some Gen-X businessman fucker with access to cheap factories but who turns his back and charges you a hefty cost is a fucking travesty.

I am glad we can do our own thing too.

Reason being is of you do the math, getting even a quarter of the classic computers it can run alone (Any Amiga model, MSX, Commodore 64, classic Mac) would run you way the fuck more than $500 alone.

If you're an arcade enthusiast that likes the original golden age of arcade machines, the cost of most decent Jamma boards range from $300 to $500+ alone. Sure this doesn't really handle stuff like late 90s arcade machines onward.

Even if you get the MisterPi for arcade and old school computers alone, you could also build a separate device for MAME / Final Burn NEO and every other console that's missing / upward from there.

Maybe I am a cheap motherfucker but I would rather this approach as long as it's believable and attached to the real deal CRT monitor with slightly matching keyboard, mouse, and controller.

The one thing I do like of all of this is choice. I personally hate HDMI since I think it's fuckin weird for most retro scenarios, and ruins the authenticity completely. However, you are you and I am me. You can totally roll with HDMI on a MisterPi setup and be on your way too.

It's the options that grab me.

My dudes, we live in a perfect timeline.

>>12099485
A cool option too is you can buy C64 cases and stuff a MisterPi in there too with a mechanical keyboard. Still cheaper than a Mega65 at that point.

>>12099708
Are you living under a rock? MisterPi with mega pack is like $170.

Add a 3D printer case to the mix ($20 to yourself or your friend for 3D spool)

Add a keyboard for $50.

You're still only around $250

>>12100560
But that is the era of disks.

I still think using something like a Greaseweasle or a Drawbridge makes more sense than trying to source an old C64 drive which is probably failing at this point anyway.

There's also plenty of 3D models for the C64 drives I've seen too.

>>12099141
>MISTer doesn't do half of what this new C64 does.
Like?

>>12099430
>The mister is designed to run on an old piece of shit board that isn't produced anymore
It's made out of the DE-10 Nano, it's still bring produced and you can literally buy a new one right now.

Also that board has a 800MHz Dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 and 1GB of DDR3 RAM, it's no Pi5 but it's well more than enough to have a decent UI if anyone cared to, the SuperStation is going to have a fancy GUI even though it's running on the same hardware.

why, i can just emulate it

>>12101937
They have already confirmed that it's possible to run a frontend for the Mister too. I guarantee you they're gonna be able to port this to the MisterPi too

>>12100539
>nooo! but it doesn't have a drive!
are you too fucking lazy to buy one separately? so.. get that c64c in first pic, 1541 in this pic.. $207US. still cheaper than buying this new thing and you get a real fucking drive. fucking retard faggot.

>>12100695
that is decent. it's great how prices of these systems never went completely crazy during the retro hoarding boom. i guess when you make millions of the things it's hard to justify high prices. but.. 25 years ago i bought a c64c with 1541-ii at a garage sale for..... $10US. compared to what i was seeing many years ago, everything has gone crazy lol

>>12102023

Unfortunately this is also true for older HiFi amps.
I also remember buying sweet x86 hardware in the earliest 2000s for next to nothing.

Now everybody needs money fast and everything has climbed.

>>12098440 (OP)
No, I still have my old one.

>>12098440 (OP)
I'd rather have a Commander X16

>>12102016
>not tested
not working

>>12098440 (OP)
nah I've already bought a next, of which round 3 will add C64 support. Looking forward to it, never played many classic computers. can finally talk about mi speccy with the britbongs

>>12099301
Demo scene is excited.

>>12102385
Agreed. Original Anon thinks everyone wants to repair shit from eBay.

I don't have time for that shit.

>>12102395
You can use the ZX Spectrum Next core in a MisterPi.

You have lost Anon

>>12098440 (OP)
Buy an ad, faggot.

>Hey, kids, let's go on fun fun adventure to the Commodore manufacturing plant, which is just some Chinese factory where I ordered 1st batch and made them hang Commodore flags on all the walls.
>Also I'm not saying Amiga, but Amiga wink wink nudge nudge
>Also I'm not saying 65 but 65, fr fr no cap

>>12102385
how are you supposed to test a drive if they have no computer to test it with, you fucking dumbass?

>>12103826
>I don't have time for that shit.
It's part of the fun.
Why bother with real hardware when you have no interest in the hardware and don't like opening it and understanding more of its function while repairing it?

>>12098440 (OP)
Haven't we been able to emulate the C64 in-browser for like 18 years now?

Just sell me a non working replica and I'll put it on a shelf as a homage to the past. Where the fuck am I going to get a 13" CRT monitor anyway?

>>12104932
>business owner promotes his business
whoa

>>12105291
He comes off as a hype man, is all I'm saying.
If he delivers C64 systems - good. But if they'll ever make Amiga or C65 those will probably be different boards for another 300-500 USD. When he hints at those in his YT videos, preorders tend to go up
https://slapsoft.com/c64_sales.html
it looks as if he's milking that.

>>12102395
I already have a Next (KS2) and I've also ordered the C64U.

>>12105152
C64 has a pretty weird keyboard so it's a pain to just emulate

>>12101952
>I guarantee you they're gonna be able to port this to the MisterPi too
Of course, why wouldn't they be able to? The SuperStation One is literally MiSTer hardware running modified MiSTer software that has a better GUI over it and allows for a few additional features like running games directly off disk. There is technically nothing the SuperStation One can't do that a base MiSTer cannot.

People have gotten Retroarch running as an example on the DE-10s ARM code without using the FPGA at all, yeah it doesn't run that well on more advanced systems since it's just a dual-core 800MHz A9 but the point is that it's obviously far more than suited to run a GUI, I don't know why people think the DE-10's CPU is some 1980s potato that can barely display text.

It's more that most users of the MiSTer likely don't give a shit about the UI, it's not exactly a system intended for people who would buy some $50 "Over 10000 pre-loaded games!" chinesium emulation box on Temu and not be able to tell the difference while they play Granddad 7 and Super Mario 12 on it. Also since many if not most use it on CRTs considering that a standard MiSTer setup comes with the Analog board the UI can't be too fancy since it still has to be usable at 240i 4:3 resolutions. I have seen many people still use better/smaller fonts than the default though on the current MiSTer, such as picrel.

>>12105819
Nobody wants your fucking MISTer garbage, stop shitting up every thread with it you disgusting chinksect.

>>12099252
>When you make hardware the reproduces the logic of another piece of hardware, that's a clone.

yes. thats what it has been called in other fields too. Mac Clones, etc.


>>12099272
a programmable clone, then.

and thats what we called the knockoff atari 2600s that came out from reverse engineered solutions that didn't use the exact same components.
>>12099252
But honestly, its all semantics considering the design intent is what's at play. Is the intent to make the FPGA able to run software coded for the designed platform? if thats the goal, then clone is more appropriate because you don't necessarily care about accuracy and instead just want the code to run compatibly. If instead the design intent is to mimic strictly the behavior of the designed platform, then that is an emulation goal.