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Thread 12108054

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Anonymous No.12108054 [Report] >>12108076 >>12108090 >>12108096 >>12108226 >>12108263 >>12108282 >>12108417 >>12108507 >>12108545 >>12108551 >>12108620 >>12108887 >>12109607 >>12109806 >>12109860 >>12110241 >>12110450 >>12111037 >>12111068 >>12111076
>allegedly the "failed" console of gen 6
>only 3 years on the market
>still has a better library and more innovations than ps2
how did this happen?
Anonymous No.12108060 [Report]
That's very subjective but I still agree. TALK TO ME SEAMIGGER
Anonymous No.12108075 [Report] >>12108082
bad thread
Anonymous No.12108076 [Report] >>12108475
>>12108054 (OP)
because sega is a videogame company and sony is a cd/dvd/bluray player manufacturer. then squaresoft merged with enix and immediately became utter garbage so they couldnt carry the playstation brand anymore.
Anonymous No.12108082 [Report] >>12108087
>>12108075
do better crybaby
Anonymous No.12108087 [Report]
>>12108082
it's just laughably stupid, I mean I like the DC but half its library is fighting game ports and generic shmup ports

PS2 has more good games than the DC has games total
Anonymous No.12108090 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
Doesn't even has a better library than the cube that already stole half of the DCs library
Anonymous No.12108096 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
>innovations
a shit tamagotchi? a controller with one stick and the cord coming from the bottom? 900mb of disc space? are you that butthurt some anon bulled the game cube in a different retarded console war thread so you made typed this gibberish as some reactionary shit? sad
Anonymous No.12108226 [Report] >>12108260
>>12108054 (OP)
It was a failure. So was the gamecube. Simple as. It has more merit for a retro luver though because the cube is a PITA to keep alive and all its shit runs on a wii whereas the dreamcast is worth owning.
Anonymous No.12108260 [Report]
>>12108226
>the cube is a PITA to keep alive
dreamcast is worse, the lasers are pretty much all dying and even gd-rom discs are dying
Anonymous No.12108263 [Report] >>12108445 >>12108885
>>12108054 (OP)
Top 10 games?
Anonymous No.12108282 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
>still has a better library and more innovations than ps2
lol
lmao even
Anonymous No.12108417 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
Because dualshock PS1 ate everything that wasn't N64
Anonymous No.12108445 [Report] >>12108581
>>12108263
Skies of Arcadia
Shenmue 2
Grandia 2
Project Justice
Ikaruga
D2
Napple Tale
Ecco the Dolphin
Crazy Taxi
Mars Matrix
Anonymous No.12108450 [Report] >>12108476 >>12108527
I love the Dreamcast and even I can acknowledge that the PS2's library brutally mogs it. The Dreamcast would likely have had a better library had it lived on thoughbeit. Sony's first party output was dog shit in that era. No I'm not going to play Primal and The Mark of Kri, you stupid assholes.
Anonymous No.12108475 [Report]
>>12108076
FF Spirits Within really btfo Square's vision of becoming a cutting-edge graphics company
Anonymous No.12108476 [Report] >>12108571 >>12108636
>>12108450
>Sly
>Ratchet
>Jak
>Dark Cloud
>Ico
>SotC
>Ape Escape
>Siren
>Gran Turismo
>Killzone
>God of War
>Twisted Metal Black
>SOCOM
Anonymous No.12108507 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
It literally just needed 32MB of RAM and the retarded MIL-CD exploit to not exist. They could have checked for the ATIP in a CD-R, or they could have signed executables so it would only be possible to pirate existing MIL-CDs and nothing else.
Anonymous No.12108527 [Report]
>>12108450
Imagine hating on Mark of Kri. Name one thing bad about that game. That's right, you can't.
Anonymous No.12108545 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
Slapping Tamagotchi on your controller is not innovative
Anonymous No.12108551 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
My personal gripe with Dreamcast is that most of its library were just arcade/naomi ports, I wish it had more proper games like Sonic Adventure that were made entirely with the console in mind.
Anonymous No.12108571 [Report] >>12108636
>>12108476
I can only assume that list is posted in wholehearted agreement. Not even the fattest, dumbest Snoy would claim that the first Killzone is a good game. The others are shit too of course, but at least they looked pretty.
Anonymous No.12108581 [Report] >>12108610 >>12108614
>>12108445
like 80% of that list are multiplat
Anonymous No.12108610 [Report]
>>12108581
It wouldn't be if SEGA didn't withdraw from console hardware.
Anonymous No.12108614 [Report]
>>12108581
shenmue, skies, grandia, and crazy taxi are all better on da 'cast doe

grandia on PS2 is ass
Anonymous No.12108616 [Report] >>12108640
Please recommend me games for Dreamcast
I want games without fairies, without magic, without magical creatures, and without fantasy elements.
Consoles
Anonymous No.12108619 [Report]
Love the DC but let’s not get carried away here
Anonymous No.12108620 [Report] >>12108624 >>12110698 >>12110728
>>12108054 (OP)
>allegedly the reason Dreamcast failed
>only 4 years on the market
>did everything Dreamcast claimed to have innovated first
>did it all better
>more active homebrew scene
>thriving translation scene
>controllers that aren't dogshit
>more beloved by the retro scene
>more beloved by 4chan
>dreamcast seen as the journo-hipsterbait console
>didn't lose as much money as dreamcast
>also sold more than dreamcast
Total Dreamcuck death.
Anonymous No.12108624 [Report] >>12108628
>>12108620
>no real 3d sonic game
It can go fuck itself
Anonymous No.12108628 [Report]
>>12108624
>Oooooooooh my snic.... WHERE SNIC?
Sonic failed the dreamcast.
Anonymous No.12108634 [Report]
Shitty falseflag thread
Anonymous No.12108636 [Report]
>>12108476
Dark Cloud is just the perfect example of what a typical exemplary PS2 game was like. Like, 2 in particular had an a amazing central town that opens up as you progress, all kinds of NPCs that you can interact with and move to different places, fantastic music, lots of stuff to upgrade, photography for inventions, sphera golf, town building and customization, time travel, two main characters with different abilities etc. Cool, amazing, right?

But you actually sit down and try to play it? You mostly do nothing but just repetitively clear randomly generated dungeon floors, over and over, just brute, forced repetition with no thought out human design, dragging out everything way beyond what anyone would want from a game like this. And that's it, that what most of the game just is and consists of, in spite of all the crazy cool ideas it has. There's close to no areas to meaningfully explore outside the town, just repetitive dungeon crawling though random, throwaway floors, over and over. It ends up feeling insane that something that "ought to be good", like the Dark Cloud games feel they should be, are just piles of repetitive nothing content.

>>12108571
The PS2 definitely has good games, but way, way fewer actually great/unique titles than people claim it does. Its games feel almost the opposite of that the PSX had. Like, you'll play a PSX game, maybe somethign different to what you've experienced before, and it'll maybe feel a bit, jank, a bit rough and lacking in refinement in some ways, but otherwise you'll get used to that quickly and find that it comes to give you hours of entertainment and a solid amount of depth where you can pick it up, enjoy it and and discover new things frequently enough without awkward barriers or excessive time wasting.
Anonymous No.12108640 [Report] >>12108650
>>12108616
headhunter
Anonymous No.12108650 [Report]
>>12108640
Reasons why headhunter would be an ideal sega dreamcast game for me?
Anonymous No.12108885 [Report]
>>12108263
Fighting games like Power Stone, MvC, and CvS series. Got tons of fun out of those.
Grandia 2 was a very strong jrpg early in the console gen.
But yeah the early days of the Dreamcast were rough. I only played Sonic Adventure because it was there. It was pretty much just Crazy Taxi.
Anonymous No.12108887 [Report] >>12108903
>>12108054 (OP)
Arcade ports, PS1 ports, schizos games like seaman and shenmue, half baked sports games, no memorable RPG.

Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur and Phantasy Star Online are the only good games games.

Pitiful legacy.
Anonymous No.12108903 [Report]
>>12108887
>no memorable RPG
Skies of Arcadia and Grandia 2. Get the fuck out of here.
Anonymous No.12109607 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
>Better library
Kek
Anonymous No.12109610 [Report] >>12110040
I don't think per capita is a thing in video game libraries. Ps2 literally had everything you could ever want or need. Dreamcast had sega arcade ports which were cool but that's about it
Anonymous No.12109803 [Report] >>12110030
It had more games in three years than the GameCube managed in six. It also outsold the GameCube during that same three-year period. When it comes to the biggest failure of the sixth generation, none other than the GameCube takes the spot. This is not an opinion but a fact.
Anonymous No.12109806 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
Let it go.
Anonymous No.12109860 [Report] >>12109946 >>12110169
>>12108054 (OP)
Terrible advertising, fucking weird controller [although in the end Sega got a phyrric victory as fucking everybody aped the button layout]
These two points are responsible for basically every failed console btw
Anonymous No.12109946 [Report] >>12110038
>>12109860
>(although in the end Sega got a phyrric victory as fucking everybody aped the button layout)
How?
Anonymous No.12110030 [Report]
>>12109803
>it outsold the gamecube during the same 3 year period
so the period of time where the gamecube didnt exist for 2 of the 3 years? it outsold the ps5, too!
Anonymous No.12110038 [Report] >>12110046
>>12109946
To specify the specif arrangement of the ABXY buttons
Xbox stole it then a billion controller companies stole it from Xbox then it became the standard controller button layout then a billion pc handhelds stole it
And Sega can go fuck themselves for coming up with it because the Nintendo ABXY layout is objectively better
Anonymous No.12110040 [Report]
>>12109610
>literally had everything you could ever want or need
if youre a pleb conditioned to gobble up the lowest common denominator shovelware until the end of time, yes.
Anonymous No.12110046 [Report] >>12110070 >>12110863
>>12110038
my mind will never adapt to this layout despite the fact ive been using a pc controller with it for like a decade now. playstation symbols, nintendo layout or GTFO
Anonymous No.12110070 [Report] >>12110096
>>12110046
The XBox ABXY layout is so retarded
The Nintendo layout makes sense. A is the default button and at the start of the alphabet. It's closest to your thumb. Y is at the end of the alphabet. It's furthest from your thumb.
Some fucking retard looked at this and said "Oh what goofballs, why did they put B to the left of A and Y to the left of X?" without giving any consideration to the CONTEXT of the device and why the buttons are like that in the first place. Basically midwit ruins everything because they can't comprehend why something would be designed unconventionally and need to make it nooooorrrmal because thinking about why things are the way they are is hard
>Playstation symbols
Don't even get me started on the JP vs International Playstation button bullshit lmao
Anonymous No.12110096 [Report]
>>12110070
english is written from left to right. in the alphabet or anywhere else, A would come before (to the left) of B. nintendo because nipspeak is reversed but for english speakers it doesnt make sense. and outside of nintendo games, most games used the down button for confirm and the right button for cancel, so down being A makes more sense. furthermore for anyone whos taken an algebra class will know X is the horizontal axis and Y is the vertical axis, which is the opposite of the nintendo layout. I prefer nintendo layout too but its only because I grew up with it, the other way makes way more sense for english speakers.
Anonymous No.12110169 [Report] >>12110184
>>12109860
Nah, the advertising was fine, and the controller wasn't as retarded as the N64 controller. The real problem was no one was going to trust the company that SHIT ON Saturn owners to shit on them too. "Saturn is not our future," killed half of the third-party support, anyone working on Saturn games decided right then and there to never support a Sega console again.

The "Saturn was always bad, can't do anything good, should have been killed ASAP." thing is such a retarded Dreamcast/Genesisfag cope that even Normalfags didn't go for it. They saw the Saturn ads, probably knew 1 or 2 guys who had a Saturn before word of mouth spread on Playstation, watched those guys get forced to switch to Playstation, and decided right then that Sega didn't respect gamers.

The whole concept of Saturn being a console that no one had ever heard of in the 90s is a complete invention of modern retro gaming discourse. Everyone knew what it was, and every magazine covered it as a serious contender until 1996, about 9 months before Stolar started calling the console shit at public events like E3. Sega was doomed from the moment they didn't fire everyone at SoA for promoting Genesis after 1995. You should not even have been able to buy a Genesis after 1995.
Anonymous No.12110184 [Report] >>12110186 >>12110450
>>12110169
>the controller wasn't as retarded as the N64 controller
Yes. It was worse.

The three pronged design let you do thing like grip the central part with your right hand to aim with the stick while having access to the side buttons with your thumb, while using the D-pad to move. This let you play FPS with advanced kinds of controls, that make no sense and are impossible with the DC controller, despite it having analog controls and a D-pad.
Anonymous No.12110186 [Report] >>12110234 >>12110450
>>12110184
If you think the N64 has more than 3 good FPS games, or that any of them control well, you and I might have very different definitions of "Good" and "Advanced Controls."
Anonymous No.12110234 [Report] >>12110267 >>12110450
>>12110186
>If you think the N64 has more than 3 good FPS games
Lol, the good FPS it had were significantly more advanced than what was being put out for any of its rivals and you're coping with this excuse.

>or that any of them control well
They control *at least* as well as any other console FPS without gyro (and even that is barely used by moderns FPS and is put to better use by Zelda, lol). Goldeneye was stupidly forward thinking, it has fantastically satisfying hit feedback and the devs made sure it would be playable on dual-analog setups from the get go so it absolutely holds up.

>The whole concept of Saturn being a console that no one had ever heard of
Like, people "had heard of it", in that they knew it existed. But I knew tons of kids with Playstations and Nintendos and Megadrives, but nobody ever had a Saturn at their place and advertising for it dried up very quickly to the point that its existence felt like a phantom. The Dreamcast had much more advertising and general exposure than the Saturn did.
Anonymous No.12110241 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
Anything is possible when you use your imagination
Anonymous No.12110267 [Report] >>12110450
>>12110234
Games aren't automatically good because they are advanced. Playstation and Saturn got the definitive ports of Quake 1 (Saturn) and Quake 2 (PS1). Both look like a cartoon on N64 because of the awful textures, Quake 1 is missing 6 levels, 3 of which are the most iconic in the game. Quake 2 on N64 basically has no real Quake 2 levels, its fan-fiction. Same with Doom 64, no real doom levels, just shitty Tim Heydelaar puzzle maps, meanwhile PS1 got the definitive port, some argued contemporaneously that it was better than PC. Duke3D? N64 got the single worst version, missing content and censorship galore, the engine isn't even close to feeling like Duke. PS1 got a direct port of the real Build engine and Saturn somehow got the best port.

What does that leave? The 3 good N64 shooters, Goldeneye, Turok, and Perfect Dark. And yeah, those 3 are great, but a 3D first console should really have more good FPS games than Saturn and it just doesn't. As for Playstation? Way more good shooters than either of those consoles. N64 was first and foremost a 3D cartoon platformer machine. Which is why the only good shooters on it were exclusives, if you didn't make your game a cartoony spy game, or have dinosaurs in it, no one was going to put up with the ugly ass textures for more than 5 minutes.

I may seem like I'm being too negative, but I'm tired of people acting like the N64 was some shooter machine when the only shooter in it's top 15 sales is Goldeneye. Perfect Dark failed to outsell Shadows of the Empire, Episode 1 Podracing, and Pokemon Fucking Snap. Turok failed to outsell Hey You Pikachu and 3 racing games that weren't even good.

Discounting console bundle sales, Medal of Honor on Playstation outsold every single N64 shooter but Goldeneye. Perfect Dark was carried by pack-in sales. Even with pack-in sales, Perfect Dark sold 1/4 the copies of Goldeneye, and Turok sold 1/6 the copies. N64 wasn't an FPS machine, it was a Goldeneye machine.
Anonymous No.12110450 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
>better library than the ps2
Lolno.
>>12110184
>>12110186
>>12110234
>>12110267
With stock controllers, the N64 is a better console for FPSs than the Dreamcast simply because it has a controller that can actually be used to play them properly. Left grip + Solitaire 1.2 layout FTW.
Add the Dreamcast's keyboard and mouse to the equation, then you obviously have something better than the N64's controller, except that each peripheral takes up a controller port. That means you can only do 1v1 in splitscreen without gimping the other players by forcing them to use controllers.
Anonymous No.12110698 [Report] >>12110739
>>12108620
It's weird. I'm most nostalgic for the Dreamcast in the abstract, but when I'm actually playing games, in the moment, Saturn games hit me with nostalgia the hardest.

Also let's not get too carried away lol. Saturn online play was an afterthought and required you to dial the other player directly. Dreamcast let you connect to GameSpy servers for some games even. And Dreamcast ushered in the era of arcade ports being better than the original games, whereas Saturn could only manage that for some of the 2D ports. At best, you could hope for parity with STV ports for 3D games. Anything from the Model 2 was going to be a significant downgrade from the arcade original.

Both consoles are insanely based, Dreamcast gets more attention outside of Japan because it was marketed better in most of the world. But the Saturn probably gets more attention today from the rest of the world than it ever has. I think the Saturn has arguably aged better in the sense that a lot of Dreamcast games feel like early predecessors to modern ones (because they are) whereas Saturn games typically don't have much of a direct lineage to modern gaming. A game like Guardian Heroes is a breath of fresh air even compared to modern indie games because it was made by Japanese people who understood things like visual legibility.
Anonymous No.12110728 [Report]
>>12108620
Saturn homebrew/translation scene only took off in the last decade or so. The Dreamcast's homebrew scene was massive in the 2000s-2010s. Like, homebrew Dreamcast developers are still making physical releases you could buy on their websites. Dreamcast still has a dedicated online community.

I'm still saying this all as a massive Saturn fan.
Anonymous No.12110739 [Report]
>>12110698
Saturn will always be a legitimate big 3 entry in the 5th generation of consoles, even if it came in last place everywhere but Japan, where it eked out a minuscule victory over N64 despite being discontinued much earlier. People will call it a failed console, but it will always be second place in Japan and 3rd place in the west.

Dreamcast on the other hand is a total failure. 4th place everywhere. A dead last console that couldn't even beat Xbox and Gamecube in any region. It only has a positive reputation because genesis/dreamcastfags whole self-image depends on blaming Saturn for everything bad that happened at Sega in the mid-late 90s. That's reality, and Saturn will always have an upwards trajectory as a retro console because MILLIONS of Dreamcast/Genesisfags have yet to give it a chance, so there are millions and millions of people left who will discover how great it is in the next 10-15 years when they finally run out of Genesis/Dreamcast games and give it a chance.

Saturn has probably the 2nd most positive trajectory of a retro platform right now, only behind Commodore 64.
Anonymous No.12110863 [Report]
>>12110046
Imagine not being able to use all 3 interchangeably. Fake gamer spotted.
Anonymous No.12111037 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
>allegedly the "failed" console of gen 6
it failed so hard Sega almost went bankrupt
>only 3 years on the market
correct
>still has a better library and more innovations than ps2
Anonymous No.12111068 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
Just because it failed doesn't mean it deserved to.
Anonymous No.12111076 [Report]
>>12108054 (OP)
Got killed by a lower priced console with better third party support. There’s a lesson there somewhere…