Thread 12149438

You don’t really believe the inverted castle was good, right?

>>12149438 (OP)
what game?

>>12149452
Ghouls N Ghosts 64

>>12149452
ʇɥƃiN ǝɥʇ ɟo ʎuoɥdɯʎS

>>12149438 (OP)
Levels being reversed, or turned upside down, is just a quick and lazy way to extend play time. There is not a single time it is done, that I have ever enjoyed it.

>>12149501
Stone Tower

>>12149438 (OP)
It didn't need to be.

>>12149438 (OP)
History of the Castlevania series?
What was Castlevania's impact on world history?

>>12149461
baste reply

>>12149438 (OP)
I never thought that much about it, i played the game and that's it.

>>12149506
Is that a game, orrrrr?

>>12149438 (OP)
I did. My mind was blown. Did they design the whole thing to be playable both ways? Crazy. Then I kept playing and it quickly got boring.

>>12149460
wtf i hate capcom now

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximo:_Ghosts_to_Glory#Development_and_release

>>12149517
based /his/ crossposter

>>12149438 (OP)
No. Turn off the game after that. Yeah. Worst part. Very bad.

>>12149438 (OP)
No, it's boring as fuck. I've never beaten the whole game because I can't bear to slog through the shitty inverted castle.

>>12149461
You don't really believe this post was good, right?

>>12149461
kek

>>12149438 (OP)
i stopped playing after like a half hour into it. it just wasn't fun. just take the bad ending and keep good memories of the game.

Yeah it was fun. New enemies and all that. Clever idea. I mean it’s better than it not being there.

>>12149527
He is referring to the dungeon from Zeruda no Densetsu: Mujura no Kamen

>>12149438 (OP)
No but it was a cool idea

>>12149438 (OP)
What I don't get is how Dracula's power allows him to somehow transports his castle all the way to Australia

>>12149665
No its not

>>12149438 (OP)
Everyone is correct that the inverted castle layout is manageable but awkward as fuck and was just a low-effort way to pad out the endgame. But I feel like what gets glossed over is the fact that while it's a 1:1 recreation of the normal castle in terms of its total area because of when you reach it it's a completely different (and much shorter) experience.

For one thing, the entire castle layout is open from the beginning and nothing is gatekept so you can just proceed in whatever direction without impediment and there's no backtracking. So some areas are a pain in the ass but you only have to go through them once. And by that point you have the bat ability and probably the persistent mist ability so you can just cruise through anywhere. Your progress through the inverted castle is like five times faster than the regular castle. The novelty wears off quickly but it doesn't drag on very long.

And secondly, it was a lazy way to increase the play area but they didn't slack off with the content within the extra space. There's a lot of cool new items, new enemies with new drops and a bunch of additional boss fights. It's like a free expansion pack. It's intended as an epilogue, not a full second half of the game, and flipping the pre-existing backgrounds is how they had enough time and resources to do it. A fair trade if you ask me

>>12149892
My big issue with the inverted castle was having the same song playing for most of the levels. Is there a hack that just reverts it to playing the song it would play in each area for the normal castle? It's the same issue Maverick Hunter X has on PSP.

>>12149452
Some soulslike game

>>12149461
Ok this is epic

It took me more than 1h to farm that op sword in the inverted lib and after that i beat the game in like 15min

>>12149529
When I saw it flipped upside down, suddenly it made a lot of sense why so much of the platforming was bland, repetitive, and boring.

>>12149438 (OP)
It's a flawed part of the game but I still found plenty of enjoyment with it. I always liked XP farming the Guardian enemies in the reverse Marble Gallery

>>12149867
Yes it is

>>12149438 (OP)
Honestly? It's really not that great, mostly it's a novelty, but I'm still glad they put it in anyway.

>>12149461
Thanks for making the thread worth it.

>>12149892
Good post.

>The novelty wears off quickly but it doesn't drag on very long.
I think that's really the saving grace of the inverted castle, it goes by very fast. If they had added in a bunch of unlock stuff, maybe some new abilities, and made the inverted castle have comparable complexity and pace in progression to the regular castle, I think that would have been MUCH worse.

>>12149438 (OP)
It was obviously an afterthought added late in development because they had some bosses left, and it basically doesn't work. Many rooms simply don't work to navigate properly; you have to be the bat constantly. Poorly designed because it simply was not designed for that purpose.

>>12149438 (OP)
I'll take it over a "new game+", the bosses were neat anyway.

>>12149892
I have to take points away because of how conspicuously un-playtested a lot of the inverted castle bosses are. You have to have the spike armor to get to the inverted castle yet a bunch of bosses will do meaningless scratch damage against any Alucard that reaches them wearing the spike armor or better, much less anything grinded or optimized, and you can therefore not engage with their boss design at all.

>>12149438 (OP)
I loved it
I think being hard to navigate made it even better, feels like a dangerous place that was meant for powerful monsters that can fly or climb walls, not for walking
Not sure if it was intended by the developers or just laziness as others mentioned ITT, but that's how I looked at it. Felt more immersive than if it was perfectly planned and frictionless.

>>12149461
based

>>12149438 (OP)
The inverted castle is literally what you'd expect from a lazy (and shitty) romhack.

>>12149452
Picrel.

>>12150696
>Many rooms simply don't work to navigate properly
You mean 99% of the inverted castle.

>>12149670
Never heard of it.

>>12149527
It’s required reading. You need to go back.

It was so fucking cool, you wondered what you would find in the upside-down parts, literally everyone who is a true gamer with a sense of wonder liked it.

>>12150696
>it doesnt work to be navigated properly
>can bat, double jump, super jump
Sorry anon but its skill issue

>>12149438 (OP)
It would've been good if Richter had a double jump.

>>12150914
I agree. I think I was maybe 11 or 12 when I first played the game, didn't know anything about it back then.
>hmm, the game was feeling a bit short
>big bro says "Hey, that wasn't the actual ending."
>nudges me explore the map more
>find glasses
>use them
>defeat Shaft
>mfw Alucard goes into a teleporter
>mfw there's more game
>mfw there's an entire second castle
>mfw it's fucking upside down

I think the novelty wears thinner as you replay the game more, because the inverted castle's shortcomings become more obvious as you interact with it more times and think about it more, but it was still a cool surprise the first time around, and I still think that counts for something.

>>12149438 (OP)
It's okay as a victory lap for not killing Richter

>>12151502
richter deserved to die for being an easily-manipulated lemming

>>12150085
>4898 HP
Hold the fuck up.

>>12149461
lel

>>12149438 (OP)
Some of the best boss fights and enemies were there. Would it have been better if it was a set of entirely new areas? Sure, but it is what it is. Either way, I enjoy it. Besides, I think you can just b-line it for the final boss anyways, so it's pretty harmless.

The problem with the Inverted Castle is you're already broken beyond belief by the time you get there, nothing really poses a threat to you in the second castle besides Galamoth and a couple enemies if you're not careful. Also not counting rare drops there's really nothing to find in the second castle besides getting back Alucard's best gear, 95% of your discoveries are going to be just more hp and heart upgrades. It's also just not very fun to navigate, needing to bat form everywhere sucks

>>12151696
>It's also just not very fun to navigate, needing to bat form everywhere sucks
This is what keeps me from even beating the game. If they had taken care to make the castle navigable in both orientations it could have been really cool, but the fact that they didn't makes the whole thing beyond tedious.

>>12149438 (OP)
Yes and i still like it more then the lame ''FINAL SECTIONS'' since Aria, they really fucked it up with Eclessia tough.

Fuck this shitty contrarian forced bot narrativess, This and going trough Kanto in Pokemon G/S were the tits.

>>12151320
What people take for granted is the fact that due to the nature of being upside down, traversing takes more plattforming and its less of ''just hallways'' plus you can fly and blaze with the wolf or wing smash or the lv2 mist, oh and this tiny little fact.

IT WAS AN OPEN WORLD, you can go trough any direction you want and only backtrack for completion of the map for the variant in the good ending.

Nowadays i would preffer it if they had the teleporters open at once so you can easy fast travel to areas quick and maaaaybe 1 or 2 gated parts where you can get some important items to justify goin trough certain areas like Reverse Entrance.

Otherwise tough, i am, SICK, of people PRETENDING the Inverse Castle sucked because Derek Alexander from Stop Skeletons From Fighting and other fucking vidya breadtubers said so, or do you honestly think the ''Dual castles'' of HoD were done much better, with its odious dead ends and locked until the very end of the game doors?

>>12151886
HoD is bad too all animevanias are bad

>>12149902
It would not felt right because of the more ''normal'' music of the main castle

>>12149461
Better start with Greektown.

>>12149902
Completely agree.

The inverted castle felt like a bonus extra, not another half of the game. Which I liked, although it probably would've been more interesting to have more unique levels. Wasn't bad though

>>12151865
>If they had taken care to make the castle navigable in both orientations it could have been really cool
Only way to do that is to dumb down the platforming even more in normal castle play.

>>12149438 (OP)
Its issues stand out more if you view the game more for its mechanics/like an action game. From that viewpoint, having more isn't necessarily better, and serves more as filler. However, if you're playing casually, it's surprising and interesting to explore, and there being a semi-filler section just means there's more to do, since the player isn't planning to replay the game over and over in the first place.

>>12149438 (OP)
the entire castle should have slowly rotated like a clock as you played

>>12149438 (OP)
Yes
it comes from a time when developers cared about making games that were fun and weren't afraid of putting goofy and broken shit in their games because they knew they didn't have to listen to the opinions of the masses
then the 2000s cams along and the 2010s and gamers and their lack of real hobbies manifested in them becoming professional complainers. Now when developers make games they have to cater to what gamers will complain about
"it's unbalanced" "the way you portray this nationality offends me" "I hate white people" "i'm gay dumb blind and disabled and this game is ableist" etc etc etc

>>12151696
>The problem with the Inverted Castle is
that it's a shit idea, which is why nobody ever bothered to do it again.

>you're already broken beyond belief by the time you get there
This issue sums up SotN as a whole and reveals how underdesigned the game is (the inverted castle being a brutal confirmation).

>>12151893
>animevanias
Shut the fuck up

>>12151158
The only skill issue here is your lack of reading comprehension, Anon.

>>12152916
>it comes from a time when developers cared about making games that were fun and weren't afraid of putting goofy and broken shit in their games because they knew they didn't have to listen to the opinions of the masses
Hilarious to claim this with regards to SotN.

>>12152983
The rage of all of humanity >>>>

I guess from my angry old asshole perspective it's a lazy way to extend playtime but as a kid it was cool as fuck. I like that you still have some idea of the layout but shit's still confusing due to it being in australian.

>>12149438 (OP)
>You don’t really believe the inverted castle was good, right?
If wasn't a 10/10 or anything in terms of design, but it was a really cool idea and it was fun to explore and see what could be found there.
I don't get why people think that SotN is bad because it wasn't meticulously balanced or whatever. More often than not, obsessing over balance just kills fun.

>>12153032
You can pretty much navigate through any room when its inverted, just use your abilities, stop finding issues when there isn’t.

>>12153036
There weren’t many games like that, they couldn’t keep up with linearvanias forever. They did one hell of a job for a spinoff, I bet it would be even better if they knew how successful it would be

>>12150696
>Many rooms simply don't work to navigate properly; you have to be the bat constantly. Poorly designed because it simply was not designed for that purpose.
Obviously they added it after they designed the main castle. It's an inversion of it. It's silly to expect it to be navigable in the usual sense, just like it would be silly to expect to easily navigate most buildings if they were suddenly flipped.
But you can navigate it because you have the abilities to navigate it. It's not really an issue.

>>12151886
>Otherwise tough, i am, SICK, of people PRETENDING the Inverse Castle sucked because Derek Alexander from Stop Skeletons From Fighting and other fucking vidya breadtubers said so
Who? We don't know your favorite e-celebs.

>or do you honestly think the ''Dual castles'' of HoD were done much better, with its odious dead ends and locked until the very end of the game doors?
Yes, actually, and I've found it to be so for a long time. I don't think the inverted castle in SoTN is complete trash, but I do think it's a very roughly executed idea which really only holds up at all because you can traverse it quickly and easily, and in whichever direction you want.

>>12151893
Shut the fuck up and kill yourself, you underage retard.

>>12149438 (OP)
It would be more bearable if you could just beeline to the middle part without collecting dracula's remnants

the last 4 "remixed" portraits in PoR are worse

>>12153223
>>12153268
You can also navigate anywhere in any game with a moonjump cheat code, that's doesn't excuse the lacklustre game design. They just rolled with it because you can jump high and have the ability to fly.

>>12153223
Symphony was made to bring Castlevania to "the masses".
>Igarashi: With Symphony of the Night, our concept was to make a game that would overturn player’s ideas about Castlevania, yet also feel like a Castlevania game. As for what things we specifically wanted to change:

>-add RPG elements, so anyone who put in the effort could beat it
>-no more one-hit-kills

>So in addition to allowing people who couldn’t beat previous Castlevanias to play, we’ve also successfully broken through to a whole new class of players, and I’m very happy that we’ve overturned the “hard game” image of Castlevania.

>Furukawa: Many people also said “I don’t know anything about Castlevania and this was fun!” I have mixed feelings about that.

>>12153310
>You can also navigate anywhere in any game with a moonjump cheat code, that's doesn't excuse the lacklustre game design.
I don't know why you're bring cheat codes into it. You can navigate it just fine with the abilities you have through legitimate play.
>that's doesn't excuse the lacklustre game design
I don't think it needs an excuse. It's just a cool addition, and the concept couldn't have been done if they'd paid too much attention to navigability. And for me, the fact it doesn't have clean navigation only enhances the idea that it's a weird space that shouldn't really be there, or that you shouldn't be in it.
I really think people are too fixated on colouring inside the lines. Some concepts only really work outside of them.

>>12153348
>I don't know why you're bring cheat codes into it.
Because the ability to fly is no different from a moonjump code.

>You can navigate it just fine with the abilities you have through legitimate play.
Yes, you can beat the game.

>It's just a cool addition, and the concept couldn't have been done if they'd paid too much attention to navigability.
.The normal castle's level layouts weren't designed to be functional upside down to begin with, which is why the reverse castle plays like absolute shit. Half of it is literally flat ceilings and the other half is awkward ledges that are 2 pixels too high to be jumped to. The "fuck you, fly anywhere" abilities are the only reason it's playable at all. It's lazy, it's entirely unearned and it's not clever.

>>12153369
Wait, you're not calling the super jump the gravity boots give you a cheat, are you?
>The normal castle's level layouts weren't designed to be functional upside down to begin with, which is why the reverse castle plays like absolute shit.
I still really don't see this as a problem. It's an upside down building, which conceptually is supposed to be awkward to navigate. I also don't really care if they decided to do it after designing the main castle. It's playable, it recontextualizes the main area with different obstacles, albeit ones you can navigate pretty easily with bat form. Yes, it could be better, but it's kind of an extended bonus area that's tied to the true ending. Mirroring is an efficient use of resources, and it's just COOL. Games have forgotten how to just be cool.

They should have added two side-castles too

>>12153414
>Wait, you're not calling the super jump the gravity boots give you a cheat, are you?
No, the bat form if you learn to read. CotM pulled it better with the Rog Wing because it has actual design build around it.

>Games have forgotten how to just be cool.
SotN forgot how to be fun by basically betraying everything the series had built towards with its long, empty corridors devoid of level design, fodder enemies and overall lack of focus. Without the audiovisuals, the game would be completely worthless and that's because it's not balanced and its level design is dull, drawn out and completely uninteresting.

>>12153448
>No, the bat form if you learn to read.
A fair criticism, since I missed the "any" in "any game" and thought you were talking about SotN's jump. But I still don't agree that letting you fly is a bad thing, or that requiring you to fly for large portions of the inverted castle is. I still think you're too fixated on the idea that the inverted castle needed to be a whole extra, proper platforming experience rather than a More Content bonus area.
>SotN forgot how to be fun by basically betraying everything the series had built towards
If you're mad about SotN replacing classic Castlevania, I get it. I wish they'd continued with both of them instead of just trying to recapture SotN forever.
>with its long, empty corridors devoid of level design
It's just different level design built for a different genre. Maybe it could have benefited from a stronger focus on platforming.

>>12153307
PoR feels just like SotN inverted castle, a romhack.

How are there these demoralizing threads in EVERY SINGLE 4CHAN BOARD? Perfectly tailored to whatever the board is about. It's like a mind virus, or a bot network.

Nah, it was KINO

>>12153634
hostile national actors and wide spread availability to large language models. why do you think everyone is gunning so hard for increased power generation and data center capacity despite it obviously being an economic trap? because being able to inject your ideas into literally every single conversation ever without actually being there is pretty valuable!

>>12153634
>>12153723
>someone has a different opinion from me? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I-IT'S A TARGETED CAMPAIGN TO DEMORALIZE ME
the narcissism of autists never ceases to amaze me. sorry incel, but you're not as important as you think you are.

>>12153738
>it's just a coincidence that bait threads shitting on beloved aspects of a hobby are cropping up routinely on every hobby board in the last two years!
whatever you say ranjesh. thanks for giving me another data point to the handler response time for bot farms though.

>>12153738
>point out that demoralization campaigns exist and are being used to create negativity in the population en masse
>OMG YOU'RE NOT BEING TARGETED YOU NARCISSIST NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU
No one ever said anything about being personally targeted and it's very suspicious that you would try to so brazenly shift the focus of the discussion like that.

>>12153758
>no argument
>"y-you're indian!"
concession accepted

>>12153769
>there are demoralization threads
>b-but i n-never said THIS one was ;^)
i love watching you incels backpedal when you get called out on your faggoty schizo bullshit

>>12153786
>>there are demoralization threads
>>b-but i n-never said THIS one was ;^)
Again, trying to say things no one said. My post did not in any way deny this thread being a demoralization thread. You have the reading comprehension of an Indian child with Down's Syndrome.

>>12153634
>>12153723
there's really something wrong/evil going on recently
scary to think these bots are better trolls than humans (who are usually pretty obvious), and they never get tired or bored
and while we might notice the patterns not everyone does, just look how many replies these threads get. Not trying to blame people, maybe they just don't check the board enough times to notice how weird it feels
hell even knowing it's trolling I still feel tempted to post too

>>12153790
this isn't a demoralization thread. you are a poorly socialized autism sufferer that has meltdowns when you encounter people with different opinions than yourself. there's no other explanation for having the meltdown that you are having. thankfully you will never breed to pass on your dysgenic genes.

>>12153634
There's a lot of people with very serious mental illnesses who think there is nothing more funny than to spend all day doing this kind of shit.

>>12153806
>meltdown
I've been nothing but calm and I'm not even the anon who first mentioned this being a demoralization thread. I'm only pointing out how bizarre it is that you keep making up things no one said in order to shift focus away from what that anon actually said. You're weirdly invested in making sure no one talks about this being a demoralizing bot thread, which only makes me think the first anon was right.

>>12153842
well yeah like i said he's the bot farm handler lmao.

>>12153738
>incel
I was with you until you tipped your hand with this

for your consideration.

>jeetbots and Tloonies raid and derail the thread.

This is just as bad as that TMSchizo on /co/.

This board sucks.

>>12149670
I think you have a lisp.

>>12153916
Which sibilant is misarticulated?

>>12153842
>IT'S A DEMORALIZATION THREAD STOP TELLING ME IT'S NOT (even though i have no proof it is one)
again, i'm glad you will never spread your genes except in a bundle of tissues
also, stop replying to yourself. it's very obvious when you do.

>>12149438 (OP)
it's mostly fine, it's the repetitive music that is the biggest drag, especially compared to the S-tier soundtrack in the normal castle

>>12149438 (OP)
I never liked it but it's kinda whatever

>>12154072
>also, stop replying to yourself. it's very obvious when you do.
It can't be that obvious since I never did. At this point you've convinced me that the first anon was definitely right, because pretending a group of people noticing something is actually only one person (who must be totally crazy, naturally) is literally disinformation 101 in anonymous spaces like this.

>dracula has inverted castles
hot

>if people deny thing is happening, that means thing is happening!!!!!!!!!!
GOD i'm so glad i'm not cripplingly autistic

>>12153310
Its clunky but not a big deal, I find it difficult to believe that something like that is what filters you out of the game. Your posts trully sounds like “its bad because I don’t like it”

>SotN forgot how to be fun by basically betraying everything the series had built towards with its long, empty corridors devoid of level design, fodder enemies and overall lack of focus. Without the audiovisuals, the game would be completely worthless and that's because it's not balanced and its level design is dull, drawn out and completely uninteresting.

It plays pretty much the same as every other castlevania released before except its easy, and I think we can agree that the difficulty its pretty much the biggest downside. You still will have some challenge if you opt to not farm broken gear, spam soul steal etc

>>12153634
Its been like that since forever, newfriend.

>>12154173
>Your posts trully sounds like “its bad because I don’t like it”
This is universally true when talking about anything subjective like the quality of a video game. The only opinion that matters is your own, and it's only good if you like it.

>>12154081
>it's mostly fine
It mostly isn't.

>>12154207
It's fine.

>>12154130
It's almost comical the level of precision with which you miss the point of every post I make.

>>12149452
Oppai Slider 2

>>12149461
lol

>>12153634
What do you mean demoralizing? The inverted castle has always been considered the weakest part of SotN, it's a cool plot twist but it quickly overstays its welcome

>>12154173
>I find it difficult to believe that something like that is what filters you out of the game
Who said anything about filtering? I have beaten the game. I don't like it overall, but that part in particular is especially a slog without focus.

>It plays pretty much the same as every other castlevania released before except its easy
Where's the fucking risk-reward platforming and level design? Why do we now have a playable character that can pretty much fly across the areas? Do you like seeing a game series you like get butchered and casualized? I swear SotN and its consequences have been a disaster for the Castlevania series.

>>12149438 (OP)
I hate it when a game I love is nearly over, but surprises me with even more content.

>>12154260
It's a /pol/nigger tourist that learned victim language from over there. Just ignore it and move on

the inverted castle is fun only the first time you're playing
it gets worse with every playthrough

>>12154224
There's a reason nobody ever bothered to go there again.

>>12155279
Instead, they found other ways to drag out the second half with recycled material.

>>12155478
At least they didn't just flip the map upside down.

>>12149438 (OP)
>>12151554

It being weaker than the first half has never meant bad to me. Inverted is filled with new monsters, new bosses, tons of new items while also being harder. It goes quicker since you know the layout and it makes you curious what's in every area now. The navigation can be rough in some areas and the one song that dominates most of it but everything else makes it well worth it.

>>12155638
Every single positive you pointed out was something I never even noticed because I got so annoyed with having to awkwardly fly to everything in bat mode all the time that I just gave up within an hour. The inverted castle is aggressively irritating and I don't understand how people can power through that to experience any of the supposed positives.

>>12155640
I guess you're a glass half full kind of person.

>>12155640
Some parts are rough like the east end of the chapel or the poison enemies all over the underground area but with gravity boots, bat dash, poison mist I feel there's enough options to get through comfortably.

I think the inverted castle is a lot like Kanto in Pokemon GSC. Without it, the game would've felt very short and lacking, but by itself it isn't all that great either, and it goes by way too fast to be considered "second half" - a last third at best, if that. The whole game is greater than the sum of its parts.

>>12155657
Yeah. It IS rough and clunky, but as said you are basically not really hindered, so that you can breeze through the inverted castle in not much time, and that's a good thing, the inverted castle being short is one of the things which makes it work ok.

>>12155662
True, and that's a good comparison. Coulda been better there too, but hell, I'm glad it's there as it is anyway.

>>12155638
The inverted castle isn't merely "weaker" it's downright trash, pure fat to trim. And the original castle is already weak to begin with.

>>12155640
>I don't understand how people can power through that
Whey do you think the crisathing is so popular? Because it allows to end the suffering faster.