>JRPG
>Takes place in medieval time period
>Toward the end, you find the ruins of a modern or techno city, station, etc.
>Turns out civ. shit the bed so bad, everything reverted back to stone age and things are building back
Every time. Why does Japan have a hard on for this concept?
>>3768576 (OP)Because it's kino
>>3768576 (OP)It's called medieval stasis. And it makes a lot of sense from a world building stand point.
Japan? This idea comes from the ancient greeks at least
>>3768632The Atlantis narrative?
>>3768576 (OP)Then there's Crystalis, where it leads off with the world being destroyed and your character waking up from a stasis chamber.
>>3768610You're confusing it for another trope.
Medieval stasis is when the past looks the same as the present aka medieval.
>>3768576 (OP)I like it.
Specially when you have ruins that slowly drip you the reveal.
>>3768757Xeno is all over this.
>>3768576 (OP)Because they have always believed that they are on top of some deep underground hellpit deep in the sea. This is also why they emphasize the importance of living your life now because when you die you will be going down there forever too.
>>3768576 (OP)>The game namedrops irl location as a big "oh shit" reveal.
>>3768832I will never forgive Untold for ruining this twist in the first five minutes
Can you list games that have this trope?
>>3769137Vandal Hearts 2.
SMT IV.
Growlanser Wayfarer of Time.
SMT Strange Journey.
Fire Emblem 3 Houses.
>>3769148>strange journey>medieval world
>>3769161I thought it was more on the context of ancient civilization being more advanced than the time the game currently takes place.
After all say in VH2 you have flying armor and trains in "medieval times".
>>3769163the game takes place with you flying a tank/science facility into antarctica
>>3769166But according to the game a very much ancient civilization lived before since the whole idea is humanity gets reset every or so millenia.
>>3769137Secret of Mana
some Final Fantasy games
Chrono Trigger/Cross
A lot of Tales of games
Unlimited SaGa
Dungeon Siege's expansion (weirdly enough)
Xenogears
Probably a shitload of other games but these are off the top of my head
Age of Decadence did it best.
>>3769137Metaphor Refantazio
>>3768576 (OP)Because history is cyclical.
>>3768815Not a single thing you wrote is correct.
>>3769137Lunar and Grandia 1 definitely did.
>>3769372No they didn't. They had advanced lost societies certainly, but they were more magical fairy utopias and stuff rather than something more contemporary.
Most JRPGs doing this are copying it from Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy copied it from Ultima
Ultima probably took it from some novels
>>3769389A lot of old DnD rule sets were pretty kitchen sink too and that was a pretty large influence.
>>3768576 (OP)japs just mindlessly copy eachother over and over
>>3769389Ultima didn't really have that, though. Its high-tech stuff was more like nerdy references to shit like Star Wars.
>>3769394Wing Commander, sir.
>>3769389>>3769394Ultima took it from the fact that Lord British's dad was an astronaut.
All is ultimately a rip off of the fear of nuclear war that's been the ride we've been on for the last 80 odd years.
>>3769137You'll love picrel.
>>3768576 (OP)>Every time. Why does Japan have a hard on for this concept?Too tired right now, but this goes back to before ww2 and has to do with them coping ww2 defeat. If you look up humanity researchers that are otakus, you find plenty of papers discussing this. Basically it's a warning to the reader.
I think at least half of it is a Nausicaa reference, the movie was a huge hit and must have had a huger influence on things. Crystalis for instance. Think of it how certain games wouldn't exist, or at least not be the same way, if it wasn't for Mad Max.
And it's not exactly something new either. Lots of older works we classify as fantasy actually take place in our world but either insanely far into the future/past. It's just a cool concept with fucks with our idea of linearly progressing era.
>>3769610There's a lot of fantasies that are technically post-apocalyptic. People always talking about a previous golden age with a civilization that more advanced and cultured than the one you're currently in, everyone's just walking in the shadows and ruins of it. It's just not always highly advanced in a sci-fi way.
>>3769389>>3769392D&D had moments where it would trickle its toes into sci-fi, like a map that's clearly designed to be a flying saucer and your guys finding laser guns.
It's not just an Ultilma thing either, Wizardry had moments where you'd find random modern tech like elevators and the series definitely started leaning more towards it.
>>3769487Sounds interesting, would wanna hear more of this
>>3769621There are papers about akira the movie and about mecha in manga and how Japanese think they invented the first robot. The robot or Android is a continuation of ningen through the hand of ningen. It's a highly spiritual thing, sake goes for ai, according to them. I like the approach and Japanese are excelling in some technological fields, no doubt about it. Shame their ruling class is filth.
>>3768650Definitely some Nausicaa influence going on here
>>3768871How so?
>>3769229>Chrono TriggerI think we're mixing up things here. OP is talking about the past civilization being as advanced as our world or much more, like a modern city that's literally our world or something more sci-fi.
Zeal was more like some kind of enlightened civilization more akin to how new agers would talk about Atlantis.
>>3769137No one mentioned Shining Force yet
>>3769631It's me, nta. Numenera has lost civilisations. Has some cool ideas, but it's repelling as ttrpg.
Western examples of this?
>>3769631Because it was a Atlantis expy
>>3769651Age of Decadence, Fallout
>>3769626That's kinda the point. Decent game, try it.
>>3769487Yes, don't become otaku.
>>3769670>FalloutThey're not really medieval. It's an aesthetic that once you look at it you think "yup, a nuke dropped here", that's solely in the post-apocalyptic genre like Megami Tensei II
>>3768576 (OP)Nobody tell OP what Wizardry and Might & Magic were doing
>>3769773True, but for a time they hit rock bottom, can the same be said about Xenogears?
>>3769784The one with the Blaster?
For me, nobody does it better than Battletech.
>>3769137OG Phantasy Star series pretty much covers all stages
>>3770201I guess it counts because human civilization is a shell of its former self and the mechs are rusty old hand me downs. But I don't think there was a big boom where everything got nuked, it's more of a classic space feudalism scenario where they just love larping as old societies.
>>3769611All of that stuff feels like influence from the Dark/Middle Ages with the Roman Empire as the ancient civilization that's fallen now. Especially in England, which was world-influencing in its fantasy. Anglo-Saxons were wandering around in these massive Roman ruins they had no ability to replicate and no real memory of how they got there, and then Tolkein, professor of Anglo-Saxon literature comes along and writes Lord of the Rings and basically invents the high fantasy everyone after him is trying to rip off
>Wondrous are these wall-stones,>broken by fortune, the citadels crumbled,>the work of giants ruined.https://sites.nd.edu/manuscript-studies/translations/the-ruin/
>>3769787'Gears is a mishmash of many different stories that wanted to be the main plot, but to a degree, yes, it fits.
OP, There is a plethora of games that follow this trope. Its one of the pillars of not only JRPGs but most modern storytelling.
>>3770372I like how the BT setting goes through so many centuries of space age travel and colonization that we can see things deteriorating into what amounts to a medieval stage, despite not having primitive towns and castles clashing with advanced technology.
The lack of communication and unity across the hundres of worlds controlled by humanity has made them go back to mercenary/sellsword work, gladiatorial games, kingdoms fighting over planets, duels between Lances and Stars over supplies, slaves or land, giant machines that can't be properly maintained and are cheap knockoffs compared to the original models and the tech lost with them and much more that feel closer to those periods of antiquity than to science fiction.
>>3768631NTA but once easily accessible non-renewable resources run out (fossil fuels, ores) then civilisation can't reindustrialise after it collapses because accessing whatever resources are left requires technology that can't be made without those resources. We are pretty much past this point irl btw.
If society can't reindustrialise, it makes sense they would stay at a medieval level of society and technology without prpgressing.
>>3769625They're pretty nice people too, aside from pedophilic artists and pedophiles.
>>3769393Enough about Smashlikes
>>3770796But technology constantly progressed throughout the medieval era.
>>3771130Yes, they need to be wiped out. Shame we had 4 more, but saved them for Europe. Oh well, hope China can take care of it.
>>3770810What fucking word are people supposed to use without being s-o-y
>>3771451clichรฉ
/klฤ-shฤโฒ/
noun
A trite or overused expression or idea.
A person or character whose behavior is predictable or superficial.
Describes both the solution and the illiterate millennial cuckold problem in one.
>>3769610> Lots of older works we classify as fantasy actually take place in our world but either insanely far into the future/past. Not exactly this but it's one of the better examples playing with that sort of concept I've read.
>>3771566Tropes are not inherently cliches. You're an illiterate.
>>3771458Tropes Always Cliche Out
>>3768579FPBP. The whole "young boy goes on an adventure and finds mysterious girl with ties to a lost, ancient, advanced civilization with an unfathomable power that evil forces attempt to misuse" is a classic story archetype in Japan that has been featured in countless JRPGs and anime.
I actually traced it back and found the earliest popular telling of the concept as we're familiar with it was the studio Ghibli movie "Castle in the Sky", but that was ultimately reworked from an earlier series Miyazaki worked on called "Future Boy Conan", which was actually based on an American novel from 1970 called "The Incredible Tide" where the story was set on a post-apocalyptic Earth, and the "ancient civilization with advanced superweapons" was just humans with nukes.
Of course, it's also easy to draw parallels with Mahabharata, an ancient Indian story that allegedy details the usage of "nuke-like" weapons used in a long forgotten war that reduced the world to ashes from which we rebuilt, and it's also not difficult to compare to the myth of Atlantis and other lost paradises that flew too close to the sun.
The simple fact is that this is a tale as old as time that is fairly appealing and evergreen, because it winds up reflecting our own humanity back at usโa coming-of-age story of mystery and discovery that tells of hubris, corruption, and tragedy while ultimately culminating in hope for the future. It's like asking why "saving the princess" was such a common trope in fairy tales. It's simply the kind of story that reminds humanity of what we'd like to be.
My favorite takes on this tale, as far as vidya, are Skies of Arcadia and Grandia. If you like anime, I'd also suggest the aforementioned Castle in the Sky, as well as Nadia: Secret of Blue Water. Pure feel-good adventure kino, the lot.
>>3771730For a second there, I thought it was Valfodr vs Omega.
>>3771750If you want to get even older than the Kurukshetra War, don't forget the war that started it all before us, the Titanomachy.
>>3771781>Titanomachy.Yeah, good point. It all really boils down to the concept of humanity being built in the wake of some great, fallen dynasty of yore, which is arguably something that happened within observable human lifespans with things like the Roman Empire and the transition into the dark ages where much knowledge and prosperity was lost. JRPGs and anime just tend to lean specifically on concepts of "medieval fantasy" and "hi-tech sci-fi" because they're so instantly recognizable and immediately communicate the dynamic.
>>3771733>likejust, god kill me, everyone ignore this retarded mistake
>>3771802I ignored it anon. It's fine. We're still friends.
>>3771787Even before that and what Hesiod would've cultural memories of was the Bronze Age Collapse, where some parts of the Near East (like Greece) straight up lost cities and writing
>>3771838Another good parallel. It's very much thematic of life and deathโwe humans know nothing lasts forever, and these kinds of stories are an acknowledgment of our capability to look to the future in spite of the past. The idea that no matter how bad we fuck up or whatever befalls us, there will still be heroes fighting for what's right. It's really no surprise this has been the framework for countless JRPGs.
>>3771787>>3771838So in short, we get great, we shit the bed so badly, it burns down the house, we rebuild?
>>3771787Odd how all cultures have this myth along with the Flood and giants
>>3771566Not the same thing, everyone's hateboner for TVtropes has caused people to go insane
>>3771898It's not that hard to come up with
>>3771781>>3771787The Titanomachy isnt about some ancient higly advanced civilization
Nor do I get what makes it older than the war in the mahabharata which is supposed to be the last thing before the kali yuga started
>>3771922Before humanity.
>>3771927Before the gayreeks maybe
>>3771909I don't disagree but t his conversation started BECAUSE of TVtropes being posted so it's sort of germane.
Now you're gonna make me rewatch Panzer World Galient.
>>3771733Wait, is that Steerswoman art? Rad.
That's actually a really good book series with a well-written intelligent protagonist, highly recommended except it's not finished and not clear if it ever will be
>>3771987Sumer anon, and then, even those before such as the peoples of the Indian sub continent
>>3771166Sure, and that allowed the industrial revolution to happen. But without coal for the steam engines they basically get stuck at that late-medieval to early-modern point.
>>3772074Rome almost figured it out.
>>3772090No, they didn't.
>>3769631the ocean palace was a real marvel of engineering despite being an abomination.
>>3772074Not necessarily, we can't say what human ingenuity will pivot to as the path of least resistance isn't a universal, but based on the the environment. Besides, you aren't even following the chain well. What caused the industrial revolution was the potato.
>>3768576 (OP)>invent Blackmoor>spaceships and magical technology>destroys the world and civilization revertsWhy do Americans always do this?
>>3771922>The Titanomachy isnt about some ancient higly advanced civilizationNever said it was. You must be stupid.
>>3773992>Never said it was.The conversation topic implies it.
>>3771787i remember hearing that the dark ages was more of an urban myth, so im not sure if that shade holds as much weight anymore.
>>3773679Well, that's not a surprise really, I mean this site was brought down by onions.
>>3773938Because we've done it countless times before.
>>3773938Sticks and stones. Like in caveman times.
>>3771750I couldn't get through the island arc
The characters just get absolutely ruined
Will need to try again at some point, I do want to see the ending
>>3768576 (OP)>Why does Japan have a hard on for this concept?Because not only it is a Very interesting one It is also presente in many mythologies around the world.
The greeks for example believed in a Golden age of Men, in which we cohabited with God and daimons and lived long lives.
The twist here is that now that we know the looks of a hhperadvanced civilization, It is no longer Magic, but technology, but the way we progressed into the iron age (the common age of mankind) was by our own sin in both.
Japanese games tend to incorporar e mythology and gnosticism really well on their games. Most narratives of kill-god are really gnostic in conception, and generally tend to mix with mythological histories retold.
And well, this is a concept that has appeard in some older D&D modules, sรณ It is not japan exclusive as well... Wizardry also did this in a sense with its space travel narratives after 6
Because they are so buckbroken from getting blasted to the stone age in WW2 that they have to put it back into every game or story they make. The fear of nuclear weapons is deeply embedded into their pop culture.
>>3772005The mythologies didn't happen so it depends on the civilization
>>3773938Because we're violent apes and the only ones willing to do it. We literally thought there was a possibility of ripping up the atmosphere and destroying all of humanity and decided to do it anyway. That's why I don't see the point in stopping anyone else from having nukes
>>3775323Then why call them myth?
>>3775289So, their N word? Hence naming it everything else such as reactive weapon, etc?
>>3768632Actually, even older. Possibly even older than the oral history of the Vedas.
>>3768726SNK needed to sequel this.
>>3769681Wtf happened here?
>>3771886For as much hate as he gets, Regan was right. You remove two generations from learning, and we are back in the stone age.
>>3777633Iirc that all happened before the flood 20k years ago. Check out fringe science regarding the sphinx.
>>3768770>>3768757>>3768708Planet of the Apes trope is just fine.
>>3774302>the dark ages was more of an urban myth, so im not sure if that shade holds as much weight anymore.>>>/his/pls .consider this, after the halal turks destroyed the last byzantine city, suddenly the west euro went through an age of enlightment with pioneering "new" tech and art being made, bringing it out of the middle ages. at the very same time when refugees with east euros fled to the west.
remnants of ancient greek/romans were hiding their knowledge.
>>3777836>the very same time when refugees FROM east euros fled to the west.
>>3777836So like the BOS?
>>3768576 (OP)I would've wished to nuke everything to shit if I was in the Japanese workforce, too.
>>3777923i like Fallout Tactics.
>>3778543The MEC was a nice gun.
>>3768576 (OP)I am genuinely surprised by the naivity in this thread, as if Japan invented discovering lost civilizations with advanced technology. You've never heard of Edgar Cayce, Blavatsky, Dรคniken, and all the other stories dating back to the Rigveda about advanced ancient civilizations? Japanese RPGs or Anime never invented anything that didn't already exist in some form, you buffoons. However, just like Hitler said in Mein Kampf, Asians are excellent at preserving culture and this is exactly what they did and why their media is superior to what the degenerate judeo-marxist West produces.
>>3778804We mentioned the Mahabharata and others gov. bot, go back to your containment board.
>>3769137It would be more helpful to list games that don't feature it this in some form. I actually can't think of any that don't suck.
>>3778820There are very few.
Are there any JRPGs where the ancient civilization was actually primitive and stone age with the current civilization the story takes place in being the most advanced?
>>3769137Utawarerumono trilogy
>>3769389Wizardry and Might & Magic also did this it used to be a fairly common trope in the west.
>>3779993Unironicly, Chrono Trigger.
>>3771254elaborate dude
>>3771566>>3771909>>3771993Honestly no one cares about "Surprisingly Realistic Outcome" no one cares about Deconstruction, or parodies, etc etc.
IT'S ALL SLOPPITY SLOPP SLOPP FOR the slopper eaters
>>3775326>Destroy the world by ripping up the atmosphereCount me in.
45g45
md5: d951e37bce4ae0ee79b3c68d8522e7e3
๐
>>3768576 (OP)>Every time. Why does Japan have a hard on for this concept?It's not just Japan.
It's just hack writing 101 where they think the juxtaposition of fantasy and sci-fi is interesting. Which gets even worse when modern writers keep doing it because it's so overdone.
Literally the first ultima turns into fucking star wars in the later half.
>>3768576 (OP)large swath of this thread is conflating the very specific post apocalyptic medieval fantasy with any and all mention of a long lost advanced civilization.
>>3780141Read about the plans we had for the war.
>>3768576 (OP)The reason this trope pops up so much, and not just in Japanese storytelling is that there is a deep seeded genetic memory of the last time this happened. These days no one knows who built the megalithic structures all over the world. We only know that some group of builders were making structures in the dustant past that even now would be hard to replicate. We as humans are still in the process of crawling out of the ditch left by whatever cataclysm wiped out the civilization that built these things.
I think in Japan's case it's a two-fold set of influences. On one hand they may have a deeper cultural appreciation for whatever ancient high civilization used to exist. On the other hand, at the end of a WW2 they saw massive destructive force destroy a lot of what had been built, so there is also a new memory of rebuilding after a catastrophe.
>>3783657Yes, the Mahabharata, etc. But, then myth comes to play and we know how that clouds. Certainly was a global civilization, but it wasn't some more advanced than we have now group. If it was, we would have had some well weathered but obvious relics.
>>3783657Some civilizations simply evolved differently due to isolation and time. Some civilizations solved some problems others didn't and created solutions to problems that were relevant for them.
Basic example, japan needed to fold metal to make it stronger to compensate for their shitty metal and metallurgy (which Europe was better at) skills.
It's not more complicated than this.
It's also why some technologically hyper advanced civilization is shit in media too. It would be far more interesting if they were more advanced in some different ways.
>>3783672Look closely at the picture there, those are well weathered obvious relics. There are the remains of structures all over the world like that. Huge blocks of granite and other very hard rock, often measuring several tons in weight and which fit perfectly together with zero mortar. For us with modern technology, those would be incredibly hard and expensive to replicate. To the cultures we have associated them with, they are completely impossible. Even if you look past how the stone was taken from quarries very long distances away, no one has any clue how they were formed. The most advanced cultures associated with any of them had bronze tools at best, but you cannot work granite with bronze tools, it's just far too hard of a rock. It's not even a situation of effort where you can say they just took a long time to make each block. Forming granite with bronze tools is like trying to cut down am oak with disposable plastic knives. It's not just hard, it's impossible. So the relics are all over, just most people don't recognize what they're looking at.
>>3783699So there is truth to tech not being so much a ladder, but the face of a mountain?
>>3783705Reminds me of the Engineer tech.
>>3781792>>3783628The difference is that if ruins of the modern age appear then it changes the genre of the work to sci-fi while merely having technologically advanced precursors doesn't.
>>3783770Depends on context and content narrative.
>>3778758i forgot what that is.
i like the Alienz pewpew lasergun though? and that autoshotgun.
>>3778758>chinese>https://fallout-archive.fandom.com/wiki/MEC_Gauss_minigungae and coldwarpilled.
>>3780067that's Ainu shit mixed with magic slime humans.
i can barely call it sci-fi .
>>3783770tvtropes is gay for deleting loli animes and gaymes.
>>3783699>Some civilizations simply evolved differently due to isolation and time.Indeed they did. The issue is that it's the oldest ruins which show the most clear examples of some kind of lost high technology that allowed people to build things in the distant past where we have zero understanding of how they did it. Look also at the pyramids and other structures in Egypt that were certainly not built by the people we were told built them. The water erosion around the Sphinx is one thing, but more compelling are the many deep tunnels and underground structures below them. Miles of stone tunnels leading to chambers and underground buildings... no where are there signs of soot from torches which is the only consistent lighting method we attribute to ancient peoples.
>>3784094>some kind of lost high technology that allowed people to build things in the distant past where we have zero understanding of how they did it>the pyramids and other structures in Egypt that were certainly not built by the people we were told built themOh, you're one of those people.
Let's disregard the fact that time and time again things we didn't understand why things were the way they were in the past have been discovered and disproven this idea that some hyper technologically advanced civilization or aliens.
It's like believing in things like ghosts. Pure quackery and unscientific.
>this thread.
Ok, so, if we take the whole of Sumerian, the ancient Veda's, the myths of giants, floods, wars, etc. we get...Advanced civ comes to earth, maybe more than one. Wants to colonize, set up a base, explore. Finds gold...not that there isn't more gold out in the system alone more than 4000x over but, yeah gold (assumptions are now coming forth that gold is actually needed as a catalyst to refine AM). There is some kinda conflict among the sides and a war breaks out, this war can be interpreted as Aesir vs. Vanir, Deva's vs. Asuras, Ennead vs...well, themselves, and finally Titans vs. Olympians, in short, the Titanomachy. This conflict was before we were "made". Established who had rights to run the operations here. Some fuck all kick ass epic space war...based on Von Dieken, Sitchen et al.
After everyone's heels cooled. The working class of the aliens were tired of working, because, fuck, you know...an advanced race of beings who can stride the stars like we can walk from one end of the street to the other apparently fail at making automatons. So, a few of the "gods" find a primate that is close, but not quite the same as them. Based on interpretation, they either decide to Zeus the females or add some of their DNA to them, and presto! The perfect slave race to serve them! They had a bunch of advanced cities around and in between the Sinai and as far East as the Indian subcontinent...which conveniently have all vanished, including the ones in the sky (3 of them according to the Vedas) and that really really neat one that Solon heard from some Kemet priest that he told his grandson.
Well, based on some things the sand people were going on about, humans were very busy fucking and making more of themselves, in part to mine that rock and...serve (?) were making way to much noise and making the "gods" nervous. Probably thought there would be another revolt. Anyhow, they decided to flood the planet. Where the amount of water for this came from is debatable, but basically, they figured their chimeras could not swim. However, one "god" did not want the project to go to waste, and convinced Noah, Atrahasis, Deucalion, etc. to build a craft that could ride the storm out. What really happened? Probably Younger Dryas impact near Canada did fuck all to the ice and parts may have struck nearby.
As humanity tried to regrow, they figured their former masters would fuck them again and decided to build a tower, it was tall, maybe had help from lesser "gods", may have been a OE, who knows, but this pissed the "gods" off too and they scrambled humanities heads and thus created the different peoples.
Meanwhile, in the land where people shit in the streets and plot to fuck us all in ways the jews couldn't imagine, had two really long stories called the Mahabharata and the Ramayana, tl;dr, there was this global civilization that consisted of 7 or so really advanced cities (a few in the sky?) that were about to be embroiled in a really nasty war...not as bad as the one that happened before us, that one btw took out the fifth world, ruined Mars and Venus, because they were like Earth or something, closed Saturn's portal, gave it its rings, and a bunch of other bullshit, but hey, you had to be there because it was EPIC, but anyway, this war was about to go down and there were still some "gods" or their kids running around and decided to help one of the two factions. The cause of the war? Someone dropped the baddest "your momma" of all time and that just caused one side to chimp out (Hanuman?) like no other.
So, the war happened with the remains of the tech from the "gods". In fact, some of the tech was so fucking dangerous, it was hidden in a land to the SE of India, Astralaya, (Australia, the oldest of the continents, according to geology, why? Because they say its so flat and featureless, some people say the Earth is flat too, but really don't care because hate flying and don't really see a need to travel too far) these weapons are the surviving left overs from that space war the "gods" had and one of them actually fucking sounds like a lightsaber. Also, personable portable mini nukes, aircars, power armor, mind controlled drones, and one weapon that sounds like a AM bomb. This war lasted 18 days, killed 1.8 billion, destroyed the flying cities (one crashed, causing a giant wave in a land West of India) and the 7 other major cities worldwide and gave us a probably incorrect description of nuclear radiation based on a weapon that sounds more like a curse or spell. Also, we are still recovering from this conflict to this day and are now supposedly learning back those "wonders" we lost.
In short, ancient myths makeup the best science fiction fantasy ever and someone needs to put it all together and make some serious bank. You think when Marduk was on earth, he had a bike like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDq8vQ0t67A&ab_channel=AlternateHistoryHub
>>3768576 (OP)I like how Breath of Fire 3 did this. Ancient technology is littered all over, mainly on a distant continent where the ancient civilization was based. Whatever still works is worn down, often malfunctioning, and incredibly unreliable.
This is because the evil Goddess of Destruction Myris decided she'd rather live in the ruins of high tech than have deepfake porn of her made, oh and also those pacifist dragons are a potential threat so I'd better genocide them to make sure.
>>3772074The Stirling engine was invented shortly before the steam engine. With no coal the industrial revolution would have still happened. Also, we can make charcoal at industrial levels.
>>3788478Myria Station, aka Oblisk still feels a bit out of place. But I do like they went with the "Capcom Techno" look. I.e. the Zenny coin lodged in places.
>>3788447I love how this kind of mockery doesn't age well and only displays blissful ignorance of uncomfortable implications.
Archeology is nothing but a cult that dismisses everything that doesn't fit into its narrative while ignoring evidence of a very different version of history, lost technologies or other capabilities defying the status quo. Anon only scratched the surface here
>>3783657.
>>3792658Can you imagine the implications though anon?
>>3778820Wizardry theoretically doesn't do it until it becomes a full blown space opera
>>3792658>Archeology is nothing but a cult that dismisses everything that doesn't fit into its narrativeIt's the opposite, it's science which means it needs backing of facts and evidence. Not some retarded cult like mentality of
>duuuude, this stuff this civilization had is pretty """advanced""" it has to be aliens or some hyper futuristic super race that did it, like in my videogames!!!Every single time this comes up and is disproven when you later discover how it was done, people like you either ignore it or are ignorant of it, just so you can continue your cult like behavior.
>>3768576 (OP)Because they got nuked
>>3792820I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. Videos like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW5IMC_o2gw are all over the internet. Archeology is the cult here.
>>3792820>it's science which means it needs backing of facts and evidence.It used to be, but the field has been irrevocably pozzed by (((Boas))) and itโs why the field shifted so hard from physical anthropology to cultural anthropology. Remember, we are all one race and all cultures are equally valid. Stop worrying about bones and genes and DNA, theyโre just social constructs.
>t. family full of archaeologists
>>3792745>>3793271IF that had any truth to it, the world we have would be undone.
>>3768576 (OP)They never really got over the nukes. I'm not kidding
>>3792658>>3783657At least when religious people do this shared delusion thing, they have a direct cause-effect relationship with faith. "If you believe despite zero evidence -> god will reward you". You're just doing it to be a fucking contrarian. Retard.
>>3793551Anime/Manga/Their gaming was the revenge.
>>3793554>if I have faith in RedditScience, my karma score will increaseneck yourself, you fucking faggot
>>3793674Yes anon, we should all believe in aliens or some super civilization based on absolutely no evidence. Especially when this has been disproven time and time again with new discoveries. That sounds rational.
It's idiots like you that mix up your own wishful thinking and bias with facts.
>>3793679Must /x/, like /pol/ find its way into anything?
>>3784109I make no claims about who built these structures, aliens are I think one of the less plausible explanations. The important point is that we just plain have no clue who made them, how they made them and when. What we do know about them is very confusing. Again, even in 2025 with all our technology we would have a very, very hard time replicating them. We know for example the quarries were a long distance away and everywhere in-between is very mountainous. For us it would mean excavating large roads, so if whoever made these did that, it was so long ago those transport roads completely disappeared. In addition to their size and transportation, we have no clue how they were cut in the first place or shaped into their current form. The hardest metal any culture we know about from there was bronze which can't even scratch granite, let alone cut through it. Today we typically need diamond tipped powerful saws. Even then, cutting pieces of stone this hard and accurately enough that they fit together perfectly with no gaps and no mortar. Again even with today's technology just one of these blocks would be hard to replicate, yet we have found sprawling masses of ruins like that. Not just there, but with similar one scattered all over the world. The very notable thing is always (and you can see it in this pic) the most impressive stone work is on the bottom, meaning it's the oldest.
So indeed, as the topic of the thread asks. The reason this trope of an ancient highly advanced civilization is so prevalent is that there clearly was some kind of highly advanced civilization in the ancient past. We can see the remnants of it, but other than that all we have is vague guesses and that makes the mystery seem even more compelling. Personally I think it was the descendants of dinosaurs who were the first builders, but that's mostly a hunch and I imagine if hard evidence was found of that, most humans would want to bury it.
>>3794132I believe a quote from Shirows Black Magic series he did in '81. Iirc, "What they had and when they had it belonged to their time, its gone now but...". This was about a civ. on Venus that peaked around the time of the end of the dinosaur on Earth. I recall it because it does not matter if there was a adv. civ. in Sols system before us. What matters is they are gone, just like we can be gone.
>>3794132>The important point is that we just plain have no clue who made them, how they made them and when.Newsflash, that has been the case for pretty much fucking everything when tracing back history and we eventually learned it one by one and it was never any higher civilization or aliens.
We make new discoveries all the time and get closer to the truth. But it never involved any of that dumb sci-fi fantasy shit.
Once people thought dinosaur bones were dragons. They were wrong. Once we thought dinisaurs weren't related to birds. We were wrong. Once we thought dinosaurs had create plumes. We were wrong (closer to short 'fur' than some colorful crests and plumes). And so on.
That's hot fucking history and archeology works.
And before you say some dumb shit like
>aha! but we don't know if it was aliens!Except not fucking once in the history of humanity has there ever been evidence of this and idiot that thought this about something with currently missing information was dead fucking wrong every single time.
You've been watching too many biased trash shows (most of them are surprise surprise american and frame shit in wrong/retarded ways, like "oh we couldn't do this today or it would be hard" being bullshit) and you're too biased yourself. This taints anything you say or think, because it's not scientific and rational, but biased and emotional.
>clearly was some kind of highly advanced civilization in the ancient pastFucking wrong dumbass. There is no hard evidence for any of it, just biased wishful thinking that idiots like you then present as factual proof.
It's fine if you want to delude yourself that there exists aliens and ghosts just for fun, but don't even try to peddle this shit as scientificly proven or likely.
>>3768576 (OP)because "forgotten ruin" is a more exciting dungeon than "empty cave"
so they whip up a previous civilization who left the ruins or magical weapons or whatever for their game. Less cynical and far more interesting answer is because the anon posting megalithic ruins is right. We have lost so much history and that nagging amnesia tantalizes mankind.
>>3783657based fuck the haters. Youre bringing up cool shit and getting attacked for it.
Here's one thats relevant;
>Yonaguni Monumentstone ruins south of Japan that might indicate a lost civilization. This interests the japs. Something like a meteor or a magnetic pole shift or a great flood or earthquake could have flooded massive parts of the map. I am no expert on japoanese archaeology but don't they dig up mysterious totems every so often that their civilization doesn't remember making?
disappointed in the closeminded and overly hostile ITT. OP asked why post-cataclysm or post-collapse settings are popular, people answered with "it happens a lot in human history so it is relatable", and now you're all tweaking crying about aliens and shit.
>>3794333You aren't being empirical, faggot. Anon pointed out the stones imply advanced stonecutting. If you know how the Inca cut the granite then tell us. Otherwise, you just sound like the people that chimped out when they first hypothesized that dinos had feathers, or that the Earth was round.
"science is always right so nobody is allowed to hypothesize or ask questions" isn't how the scientific method works, retard.
>>3794359>schizo says there not being evidence of aliens means it's definately aliensPeople like you should be locked up. Absolute nutjob that can't separate wishful thinking from facts and can't even read what people type, because it doesn't align with his belief in aliens and shit. Fucking get help.
>>3794360So you don't have a theory on how the Inca cut the granite? damn, I thought you had it all figured out.
also I never mentioned aliens, I'm just talking about lost civilizations and lost technology.
anyway pic is some anon's post about archeology mysteries. Only ones I can vouch for is the "handbag" thning appearing in Turkey and weirdly again in the New World. Gobekli Tepe being older than Babylon. And lots of underwater shit. I dont think its a stretch to imagine Indonesia and southeast asia had cool sites lost to the sea. doggerland or whatever in Europe, "Atlantis". Also yea Egypt is old and weird.
sorry to go /x/ and /his/ back on track, I really like Fallout's world building and all the different little ways people interpret the pre-war world and its artifacts Not japanese but it embodies the ideas of this thread so well.
>>3794333That's a lot of anger over what are very concrete questions being posed. It's clear whoever made those had some kind of technology we don't know about, since none of the cultures we do know about had any ability to create these with the tools available to them. Getting angry and swearing doesn't suddenly give the Inca magic bronze tools that can cut granite unlike any other bronze tools. No other culture old or new that we know of has ever found a way to cut and form granite on a way different from how we do it now which we know is entirely impossible for the cultures these are associated with.
>>3794360Also it's telling that in response to quite reasonable questions being raised about where these ruins actually came from and who could have made them prompts you to swear, call names and say anyone posing these questions should be locked up....
>>3794333>>3794359Something fucked a previous well organized seafaring civ.
>>3768576 (OP)its just jack vance and gene wolf influences you guys are tripping
>>3795347Yet the Nips refined it in a way that seems closer and more familiar... Probably due to the nukes.
>>3768576 (OP)People are always fascinated by legends where only shadowy hints and scraps remain. And the idea that an ancient city like Atlantis maybe made deals with powerful malicious forces to buy power that caused their later doom, because of the constant instinct about fast shortcuts being highly untrustworthy
>>3796120Hubris is a fine flavor
>>3796342Especially when you look at contemporary civilization and see that it's all a shaky house of cards being barely held together by hubris.
>>3797043Look at it this way then, some of us will be alive to see it fall, and fewer still alive long enough to watch or even help start over.
>>3768576 (OP)>Why does Japan have a hard on for this concept?Japs? Try the entire world. Look at shows like Ancient Aliens and shit like that. Everyone in the world has some concept of ancient civilizations that they're obsessed with. Japs just make games and we make TV shows and do podcasts on them.
>>3797166We are to a older galactic civ. what Australia was to England...or worse.
>>3769137Xenoblade 2
You get to explore the ruins of an American city full of immortals zombies who end up being the remnants of humanity and then learn the giant world tree was a space elevator, God's some autistic scientist, and that all life on the planet is actually made of nanomachines.
>>3798104Which was Takahashi ripping off his original idea of Zeboim.
>>3784347If there was any depth or validity to this, the ruins or remain would be here to this day. Infrastructure of that magnitude is not going to vanish for a VERY long time.
People of medieval Europe were aware of a precursor civilization, partly due to the fact they were literally tripping over the stone constructions and roads of said civilization. When you have a hard time building a house that can survive 8 years, no shit you will be flabbergasted by a fortress that stood over 400 years. How about that one gold coin of yours that has the face of emperor from 500 years ago? The very concept of how your landowner pays a tax to his liege lord, stems from the same precursor civilization. Half of the words in this thread came from that civilization.
The fantasy of medieval people in awe of a grand ancient civilization is so common in fiction because it is literally our entire society for over a thousand years.
The Japanese are fascinated by European history because their closest analogy to ancient Rome, classical China, turned into dog-eating-dog savages right in front of their eyes. The idea that you can view the descendants of the precursor great civilization, and find them productive and high-minded, is intoxicating to Japanese authors.
>>3800487And to think, what if we used all six!
