Thread 3802854

Like sire, like childe. I should have killed you that night. How could someone as low as you injure me? You think you've taken everything away, but I still have my VTMB Thread

regaining humanity via dancing is pretty cool, too bad base game does fuck all with whole thing except you going full Gangrel

Go ahead,
try to Dominate me again.

>>3802854 (OP)
This line convinced me that LaCroix did not set fire to the park, it was the last straw

>>3802947
possibly jack but, what do you mean last straw?

I like LaCroix more than Jack, who looks like he smells like shit and deflects whenever you call him out on his hypocrisy.

>>3802947
LaCroix accusing you of betraying him when you two are alone in the suicide bomber fight really makes you think.

what do you think the sheriff ended up doing with the remainder of his unlife when you do the lacroix route and open up the coffin with him?

Ventrue are cool. Disciplines for gaining power and wealth and the ability to tank the haters who can't stop seething.

>>3803622
Depends on if he was legitimately loyal to LaCroix or was bloodbound/dominated. If the former, I imagine he'd start killing Anarch shits until he got ashed or backup arrived. If the latter, my bet would be on him leaving. Who actually wants to stay in LA?

>>3803632
Ventrue are my personal favorites. Though I'd argue most of the first seven clans are fairly well designed in which disciplines they possess.

>>3803632
Hell yeah. Max stamina + Max fortitude + Max Presence while wielding the McLusky is the only proper way to play Ventrue.

Ecaterina The Wise > Lacroix
I least she isn't going to judge me for Cartaginese Larping

>>3802854 (OP)
I need to finish my Tremere playthrough
Is thaumaturgy good enough on its own for the final bosses or do I need to invest in guns?

Its so funny going to Vesuvius and seeing the strippers do the same dance animations from the nightclubs. They are just on stage next to a pole flailing their arms around. I mean the dance animations were already bad, but seeing VV autistically flail around is cherry on top.

>>3809044
Thaumaturgy is good and can be all you use if you know what you're doing. I still think it's fun to use it while shooting though, unless you're using the patch with casting animations.

>>3803632
It'd be cool if there was anything to do with wealth in this game. You can really only spend it on ammo, and ironically, there's not enough dollars in the game to fund a guns only playthrough. I checked.
I will say though, some of the most fun I've had in the game was dominating thugs and slowly walking towards them like some pansy anime villain then sucking em dry. What's cool is cool

>>3810335
There's special anti-synergy for cash and Ventrue too, which is funny. Since most of the times outside of ammo purchases where you need to spend money can be bypassed or reduced by persuasion, dominate, or presence. All of which Ventrue have.

i really loved Bloodlines but is there a Masquerade game that lets me play as a sinister, morbidly obese vampire like Pearl from Blade or Balthazar from Buffy

>>3810459
Gonna need to play the tabletop for that one. Fat freak could work as a Nosferatu, maybe as a Gangrel animal trait, or you could just be morbidly obese when you got the embrace.

>>3810466
Nosferatu would actually make a lot of sense (and Cryptophilia compulsion is actually pretty accurate for the existing fat vampire characters in pop culture). i've played 5e and pathfinder and may not have the energy to learn a new TTRPG but maybe i'll check out

>>3810447
>special anti-synergy
Yea, it's very discouraging. Same goes for Toreador, where you have to go out of your way to level both seduction and persuasion, and as I remember, you never really use the former outside of clubs, though I haven't had a female run so what do I know.
Having to choose between dominate or a speech check is a huge drag, I agree.

>>3810335
>there's not enough dollars in the game to fund a guns only playthrough. I checked.
There is if you do side quests and only buy a few guns from vendors. At least according to Jack during the tutorial the game doesn't really want you going guns only though.

>>3810732
i distinctly remember being in chinatown having no money at all. the fortune teller guy was bugged.

>>3811008
I never had a problem with money in this game even when prioritizing exp rewards over money rewards. Usually Venus's quest is enough to cover most of my basic expenses through most of the game when combined with all the little sellables. Picking up and selling the weapons enemies drop also gets you some chump change, if you're not using melee there's no reason to hold onto any melee weapons. I do usually put some points into finance and get the skill book and skill point from Fat Larry, so I'm probably getting better deals than most players who don't bother with the haggling feat at all. You shouldn't have to buy a lot of ammo anyways since certain levels have crates that spawn filled with ammo for your equipped guns.
If you really need cash and don't care about losing all your humanity, you can just kill the respawning police officers in the hub areas and sell their batons/guns.

My first (completed) playthrough was almost entirely guns because I didn't know that bloodbuff + fists is all you need for most of the game. By the time I was ready to fight Ming and Magilla I had enough to splurge on bloodbags and ammo, and this was without completing many of the sidequests because it was first playthrough. I was a Ventrue though so I did start with a haggling buff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQC9sToSdmM
There are so many good fucking songs in the unused OST. I could see why they weren't used since they didn't really fit with the tone of the game. But it's the kind of music you listen to when you're reflecting and contemplating on your life.

>>3803622
Seeing as he is not seen in LA by night he probably went into torpor or was given final death.

>>3803616
I can think of some reasons why Smiling Jack may have set the fire iykyk. Still seems weird for such a friendly face to be behind the fire. What do you mean though about the dialogue? I can't remember what LaCroix actually says.

>>3812151
>I anticipated you'd make it this far. . . I had no doubts about your capability. But I am not so easily betrayed. . . Did you ever think about what it takes to live as long as I have? To come this far? Consider that lack of judgement in your last few seconds.

>Still seems weird for such a friendly face to be behind the fire.
Jack killed everyone on the Dane and if you're a Malkavian he says he'd kill you if anyone took you seriously because of what you know about him and his plot.

It's an interesting theory that Jack set the fire but I don't think it's true. There's plenty of other dialogue from LaCroix admitting his backstabbing.

>It was a difficult decision to make. But I only did it for the greater good. The Kuei-Jin did not question my scheme, but I did it to bring all Kindred under Camarilla govern.
>Rodriguez was a sacrifice. Without a leader, there was confusion. The anarchs needed retribution. I called a blood hunt on you to satisfy their bloodlust and to assert leadership over them. There is at last unity amongst this city's Kindred. The Kuei-Jin's nights are numbered.
>As I've said many times before - someone with your skill is irreplaceable. I had no doubt you'd survive the ordeal.

>>3812001
I think I was struggling to beat either Ming or the demon girl and I was doing no damage to her except with the flamethrower (?) or at any rate some fire damage dealing weapon which you couldn't loot off of enemies. It was well over a decade so I couldn't tell you the details exactly. I also don't think I was using any patch. Anyway

>>3812007
Funny, I was going to link All That Could Ever Be as well before I saw that it's what you shared too. And I agree completely, I think this song is used for either the pier or the carnival in one of the WESP patches and it didn't fit at all. It felt like a cheap and "dishonest" way to cram in as much content as possible. Hollywood was lighting in a bottle, I don't think there's a better hub/music combination in all of video games.
I remember smoking in my room at night climbed out the window listening to these two song and looking at the filthy streets of Bucharest when I was 16. Close to being the best times of my life.

>>3812007
Funny, I was going to link All That Could Ever Be as well before I saw that it's what you shared too. And I agree completely, I think this song is used for either the pier or the carnival in one of the WESP patches and it didn't fit at all. It felt like a cheap and "dishonest" way to cram in as much content as possible. Hollywood was lighting in a bottle, I don't think there's a better hub/music combination in all of video games.
I remember smoking in my room at night climbed out the window listening to these two songs and looking at the filthy streets of Bucharest when I was 16. Close to being the best times of my life.

Best mods in 2025?

>>3812838
clan quest mod

>>3812838
Weapon Overhaul. Nothing beats making guns matter, both for you and the enemies.

Oh yeah, don't go for new clan mods. Tzimitshe are not worth it, Anteluvre (or however the fuck) clan pack is extremely unfriendly to the game's setting and the remaining mods add completely asinine bullshit like Blade/Crow/Dhampir and other moronic stuff.

Jeanette fucks nosfs. Do you think that Therese could be convinced to?

>>3813139
Never. I get the vibe that she is completely celibate, ignoring the weirdly sexual part of vampirism.

>>3809044
im about to finish mine but i went thaumaturgy/melee, first time trying plus patch too

>>3813144
>completely celibate

I pronounce the blast sentence and I soak the critical fallout. I make the decisions no one else will. Leadership... I wear the albatross and a VTMB Thread

>>3814609
If you made some good decisions once in a while, no one would say anything.

>>3814659
I want to say.. nigger
siding with sebastian (no homo) is the patrician's choice

>>3814890
>I want to say.. nigger
say that to my face fucker not online and see what happens

AHAHAHAHA, what a VTMB thread man, hoo-wee

The JRPGs? they're worthless man, like fake tits on a zombie worthless. Fun to watch though. Like the three stooges with chainsaws.

Of course, you're innocent. You're an asset to me; I'll take care of you. But there's one last thing I need you to do for me. The last order of business before we sleep easy. My protégé, it's time I told you about VTMB Thread

What if the sparkling water salesman made a business selling canned vitae to kindred? Then he would make so much money he wouldn't need to diablerize that ancient Assyrian king or whatever

>>3816876
I played all of Redemption without ever feeding. Just drank these weird coppery health potions I kept finding in dungeons

>>3803632
Ventrue is my favorite clan definitely. You can start with so many points in Persuasion and I like maxed Fortitude more than maxed Celerity since you are practically invincible in almost any circumstance and can do whatever you want. Plus I like Dominate in dialogue a lot more than the IM PICKLE RICK dialogue Malkavians have.

>>3816897
>I like maxed Fortitude more than maxed Celerity
Same. Celerity is fun for a little bit but I wish it had an option to just make you faster instead of making everything else slower. Celerity letting you reload faster or swing melee faster and move faster would've been fun but I get a little bored of how it makes everything slower.

So I've noticed some astrological references in this game, specifically the planets. Obv we first meet Merucurio, the first planet, an initiator and messenger. The Malk PC picks up on this. Another obvious one is Venus, second. She is feminine, tries to tempt people and get stories. A gossip. I don't know about Earth or Mars. Any help would be appreciated, thats why I bring this up. In Hollywood there is Red Spot and Golden Age Jewelry. Jupiter and Saturn. Hesiod said that the Golden Age was ruled by Saturn in the Theogony I think. So Abrams is Saturn. (Abrahamic religion being saturnian in nature, look at the black cube imagery employed by Jews and Muslims) And Astronomers say that Jupiter has a red spot. What about Pluto and Uranus? I also don't know about those two. But the game is very obvious with the first two, so I think it was trying to show us a pattern. (Yes, I did play Malkavian and yes I was alarmed at how much sense he made) So who is Jupiter in Hollywood, that guy behind the register? I don't think so, but I really hope someone can help with these correspondences. And what does it mean astrologically, is there an esoteric meaning to their roles and placement?

>>3818006
Samefag. So I just learned the Giovanni are associated with Jupiter, Jove-anni. But they aren't in Hollywood, but Redspot is, so idk. Also I found this cool video about constellations which I don't understand but its cool. Also anyone pick up on the Knox- Fort Knox- Gold-Golden Ghoul- Gary Golden- Living in the sewers- Gold in the centre of the Earth- VITRIOL- Lapis Philosophicum thing going on, or is it just me? Link to video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgSGHz9-mzU

>>3818006
Me again, if Mars is between Earth and Jupiter then we should ask what is before the Red Spot? Well it is the Grout Mansion and the Museum. But also in Hollywood we can wrap up the serial killer quest and he has red hair and is very violent, recklessly so. And he was introduced in Santa Monica, and makes us return there. Mars is on the edge of the asteroid belt between the inner and outer solar system, liminal, as they say. So this is a red violent liminal figure. Mars? And I have seen a sign for the Earth before, a cross inside a circle. LaCroix? We meet him around the time we meet Venus and before we finish the Mars bit. As leader of the Camarilla he is lawful, 'mundane' if you will. He rules the vampires as people, makes them coexist with humans through the masquerade. He also dies in some endings, Gehenna, the end of the world Finally, Earth is linked to Saturn. LaCroix is a lot like Abrams, he wears a suit, adopts a royal title (Prince and Baron) and rules a domain. Again any help thinking about this would be appreciated. Hope some of you don't discount this as nonsense.

>>3818006
>>3818022
>It's very likely that Red Spot was inspired by the real-life legendary Pink Dot; a quick delivery prepared-to-order grocery store located on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood, CA.
During Venus' quest, the Malkavian can tell her he'll become Mars to save her from Vulcan. The game actually takes place on Earth. But rly, Bishop Vick talks about Earth and Hell a bit in his dialogue. The phone call before getting the DMP tape in Hollywood having "the moon is a mysterious mistress" line.

In Chinatown you can mention seeing the Mandarin and calling him a silver-haired man and that he was coming out of the Golden Temple.

I didn't catch the Knox thing but it makes sense as both Knox and Gary are keeping valuable secrets.

The Malk will call Jeanette a rainy day child, which is probably in reference to her makeup. But it made me think of how you first meet Bach with Grout's mansion on fire and vamps are horrified by fire. The gargoyle made of stone. Isaac making reference to LaCroix's wooden soldiers.

Jonny in Chinatown's full name is Jonny Tiger. Then there's Ginger Swan in Hollywood. Beckett being a wolf and the two hitmen in Chinatown being referred to as wolves by the Malkavian. Ming turning into a squid type creature. The gargoyle being a monkey. The Malkavian TV interaction referring to you as a tuna, fish out of water. Malk calling Jezebel Locke a spider and her victim a fly, Pisha and her victims too.

I suppose LaCroix and Ming could be Jupiter and Neptune? Ming being the squid creature and in the Kuei-jin ending she sends you to the bottom of the ocean. LaCroix having the sheriff who can turn into a giant bat-type thing like Jupiter's eagle, the tower being the oak tree, Ventrue's symbols are a sword and scepter, Jupiter is often depicted with a scepter.

>>3818060
I like what you are saying about LaCroix as Jupiter and Ming Xiao as Neptune. LaCroix as Jupiter makes a lot of sense, and the bat/eagle comparison you made is convincing. The symbol of Jupiter also contains a cross. I am still not fully on board with LaCroix being Jupiter since I like the pairing in Hollywood with Saturn, but I can't deny you make a strong case. I had no idea there was a store called the pink dot, thanks for the info, could be that the name is just a jokey reference I'm reading into.
I also think Ming Xiao as Neptunian makes sense with the water squid thing going on.
The Nosferatu on the whole are very earthly living in warrens and using the sewers. They might also be Plutonic though, since they are demonic in appearance and are more below ground than surface types. Also the connection with gold and wealth again. I forgot to mention that of course Knox's master is a nosferatu.
I like what you're saying with the animal names, that hadn't crossed my mind but yeah. The spider fly thing did catch my attention. Pisha actually calls herself a mantis though, as she claims that she doesn't just drink, but needs flesh too.
I have no idea what you are getting at with the rainy day child bit, but I'll think about it. I thought it was an odd line when I played that part, but couldn't even piece together the eyeshadow part. Maybe its about how Jeanette is inside Therese as a persona and when its raining children play inside, idk.

>>3818060
Oh, one more thing. Did you notice "13" coming up a lot in this game. The vending machines, the clock in the opening cinematic having digits that add to 13, twice. The room with the thistle branch in the hotel having digits that add to 13. I am sure there are more. I get its the spooky number but maybe it means something more, again idk.

>>3818092
>The Nosferatu on the whole are very earthly
I like that interpretation especially with you pointing out Gary and gold.

>I have no idea what you are getting at with the rainy day child bit
Just different elements being used throughout the game with personalities. Her makeup looks like someone who was caught in the rain but it's also probably just because she's damaged and has cried.

Jeanette with water, Bach with fire, Knox and Gary with gold, Isaac and the wooden soldiers, stone gargoyle. The Chinese zodiac associates people with animals but also elements like that too. One of the thin bloods on the beach is named Copper, maybe because he hasn't accepted being a vampire so he's not iron which is associated more with blood. Malk also says Strauss wears an iron crown. One of the people the serial killer murders is named Muddy Mike who himself was a murderer, muddy obviously meaning his own hands were dirty too.

Also another thin blood is named Julius which is a name associated with Jupiter but it might be used for it meaning youthful instead. Then you have Lily and Rosa, Lily is delicate and needs protecting while Rosa is giving you information that can sting.

>>3818101
I did notice 13 on the soda machine but that was about it. What clock adds up to 13 twice? There might be more symbolism with it but it's also easy to start seeing symbols where it wasn't intentional or just reaching. But next time I play I'll pay more attention to that stuff.

Thought you might like seeing this pic, you can see this during the tutorial at which point it won't mean anything to you but it's pretty obvious what it alludes to after playing.

>>3818123
This clock first says 12:37. 3 + 10 = 13 This is the first thing we see in the game proper. After the cut to black transformation bit it shows 3:46 or 13 again. If this happened later I would discount it, but this is the first visual in the game, and it is repeated.

>>3818137
I was just rewatching this scene and I noticed 1) Lots of clocks to start the game, two shots of digital and one analog. The analog is pointing at nine, another significant number in the game. "Nines" Rodriguez. 2) Zaphod is a reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Maybe just something a troika employee liked, who knows.

>>3818140
meant to attach picrel

>>3818123
The Nosferatu you rescue in Chinatown was named Barabus too which has biblical significance. Jezebel the plaguebearer and Caine being obvious biblical symbols too. Heather Poe I'm not too sure of but heather is a plant too just like lily and rose. Poe could be Edgar Allen Poe. Fat Larry because he's fat but he doesn't give a fuck. A lot of name symbolism.

>>3818137
Oh, yeah maybe. My first guess would've just been that it's after midnight and that's probably when vampires are starting a new day and generally when spooky things are supposed to happen. And 3AM which is known as the witching hour. I wouldn't really see 13 in those clocks though. And it also just shows how much time has passed since your character was bitten lol.

Also Andrei I think during his call with Deb mentions a red star which is supposed to be Wormwood and a sign of end times for vampires too, more celestial stuff.

>>3818140
>>3818141
I might consider the nine thing. I haven't noticed much with numbers throughout the game otherwise. I think Nines is also just a reference to Trinity being three from The Matrix. There are a few Matrix references, Strauss looking like Morpheus is another one and greeting the player with "Hello, Neo(nate)". I'm sure if you go through everything you might find a lot of things that could match up with Matrix stuff too. Or Blade which VtMB also got a lot of inspiration from.

Aww, sweet!
A Malkavian thread!

>>3818160
Low IQ Vermin, fuck off
You're literally not the intended demographic for this game
Media illiterate bastard

>>3818149
Wow, can't believe I missed that Matrix stuff. I would also love to mention here the references to The Fog, with the Elizabeth Dane, and the Deb of Night radio show. More clock stuff from a movie of the same era as the Matrix here in picrel.

Theoretically speaking, would a brujah or toreador be able to save LaCroix in his ending? It would be the easiest thing in the world to pop celerity and carry him away from the bomb.

>>3818169
Is Dark City good? It had been something I thought about watching for a while but never got around to it.

>>3818211
Probably. You can get a high enough Celerity to let you slow down bullets. The explosion didn't destroy the whole building either so it looks like you'd only have to get a few floors down to be safe and not leave the entire building.

>>3818211
even without the player character being there i find it hard to believe a high level ventrue like him wouldn't instantly pop fortitude and just tank the blast the moment he knew what was up

>>3818230
LaCroix gets killed by a paper knife, he doesn't have a single fortitude dot

>>3818230
LaCroix is every player who thought they could put all their stats in social skills and win

I have been coming around to the Camarilla lately, as opposed to the Anarchs. When I first played I naturally felt a bit slighted by nearly being killed by the Camarilla, and we see Nines save the players unlife. I also can't dismiss that Nines is a likable guy, probably one of my favourite characters. But if we think about it the Camarilla and the Anarchs have very similar aims and taboos. With the Camarilla however it is codified and more predictable. How do the anarchs deliver "justice"? Barely controlled mob violence? If you can prove this wrong, please do. It is unfortunate that the Camarilla also declares bloodhunts, but the vampire state can at least mitigate the worst excesses. There is no apparent mechanism or law that prevents anarchs from basically devolving into Reign of Terror situations besides charisma and "we cool bro". Vibes based politics isn't the most reassuring. When Nines and Abrams suffer final death all of LA better hope they groomed successors. But as individuals they are disincentivized from doing so, because that would threaten their loose power, which again is largely 'vibes' based. LaCroix is an idiot, but the structure isn't totally bad. He can groom a successor and enjoy the knowledge that he is protected from a coup by the camarilla red tape. Would the primogens accept a coup? Not unless there was a reason, perhaps collusion with hostile powers for personal gain. What do the Anarchs have, loose networks of friends? Who is to say Damsel won't just fangirl some new smooth talking idealist?
I suppose the next question to ask is, if the structure of the Camarilla is better, what about the individuals? What lives are possible in these groups? I think this is a tougher problem. Nines and Jack are pretty cool, not gonna lie. But Grout was interesting, the Voerman's do well and LaCroix isn't all bad. LaCroix actually has some admirable traits if you get past his condescension. Its not like Nines and Jack aren't taking you for a ride either.

>>3818367
Cont.
Sure we can say that "no, the Anarchs are chill, look see", but what happens if they win and have to rule all LA again, like in the free state days. Wouldn't they have to change? Would they have public executions where people could dissent like LaCroix, or would it be show trials and backroom executions? We don't know. We do know they are hostile to any legalistic authority which reigns in their worst impulses. "If he is guilty why not have a little fun with him" This can lead to blood feuds, Jyhad unchecked, you know the story.

>>3818367
>Would the primogens accept a coup?
Yes actually the entire point of the Primogen Council is to check the Prince's power. The worst situation a Camarilla city can be in is with a strong (and cruel) Prince, and a weak Primogen Council. The second worse is weak Prince, strong Primogen though, because then things enter political deadlock and there is no daddy to put the house in order. But yes, Primogen would happily coup a bad Prince. It makes them look much better, and one of their number is almost always going to be the next Prince. In fact, if you can deliver to them proof of a Prince flagrantly violating the Traditions, they can kick it up the chain of command and get an Archon involved.

>what about the individuals?
Well they're vampires, one shouldn't sugar coat it. They're not good people, especially the older they get. The reason the Anarchs might come off as "cool" is that none of them are more than a century dead, save Jack, who is a monster in disguise. The upswing though is that the Camarilla is carefully arranged to sublimate the vampiric urge to kill each other into largely meaningless social games. Not to mention, the Primogen Council is appeasement for elders. They get a fancy position, that also surrounds them with their peers and causes them to waste much of their wickedness on someone their own side, while needing to play nice with their own clan at the absolute least.

>What lives are possible in these groups?
As long as you keep the traditions, the Camarilla actually doesn't harass you much. If a blood hunt is called you're expected to do your service but beyond that? Not much. And you can tuck tail and hide behind the sheriff and prince if some Sabbat fucks come to diablerize you. You'll probably owe them but less than you think and hey, it beats final death. In essence you either keep your head down and find non power seeking goals to keep you preoccupied, or you as a young'un trade your labor in exchange for favors from Elders.

>>3818367
One counter would be that the camarilla are purely parasitic and redundant, if we consider what Skelter claims. He says that the blood calls, and the vampires answer. There is a biological "governance", or cybernetics proper to vampires. The blood is a curse. It is notable that Skelter is black, he may know better than others how one's very body can be used politically. If we consider that the blood itself is a "natural" governing system of vampires then there really is no need for the Camarilla, and the Anarchs are "right". This isn't necessarily a good thing, but why listen to some asshole in a tower when the blood is already your master? There is the problem of Tzimisce and Tremere manipulation however, two feared and distrusted clans. They do manipulate the body, and could threaten the "natural" order. Perhaps this is why Tremere cleaves to the Camarilla, and the Tzimisce go Sabbat.

>vtmb will never have a worth successor
It hurts, bros.

>>3818371
>The reason the Anarchs might come off as "cool" is that none of them are more than a century dead, save Jack, who is a monster in disguise
Even they still have rules enforcers like that nigga (who is more than happy to relegate his work to a new meat but hey, exp points) who is perfectly okay with the player silencing that ghoul blabbermouth permanently and I think even finally does it himself if he fails the quest.

>>3818367
I think the real problem the Anarchs have with the Camarilla is that they have to start fresh in an organization that rewards longterm service. They're basically bottom of the proverbial food chain until they fully commit and work their way up. They're basically lazy and feel like they are entitled to special treatment because they've lived so long outside of the Camarillas influence. Others that already have power, like Isaac, are just afraid of losing it.

>>3819096
I think you're misrepresenting the Anarchs on that one, but either way, you're conveniently forgetting one key issue here: those at the superior echelon cannot die from old age, will never retire unless they wish too. So you're only chance up is to have them removed.
Add to that the fact that personal power in VtM is dependant on blood potency and age - the later those above will always have more, and the former only raisable through illegal diablerie.
At least one can see why the Camarilla can look like a scam to new entrants.

what do you suppose the deal was with the PC's sire, anyway?

>>3819149
Got into the wrong cab at the right time.

>>3819149
Rare vamp like Jeanette who enjoys the act of hooking up and who was pleasantly surprised by the quality of your one night stand, so they decided to keep you, only for LaCroix to go on a power trip because they sired you without a written invitation on his part.

>>3819174
I guess it's a little odd that the your Sire was Camarilla in a city that's majority anarch

>>3819149
Clearly not a 7th Gen vamp unless super young him/herself. Also, unless a secret one, would have been quite hard to pass up as a way for LaCroix to power up through Diablerie, even though quite below whatever an ancient sealed sarcophagus might hold.

>>3819187
it's weird how the vamp hit squad immediately break down the door. one wonders how they knew

>>3802854 (OP)
I like Yukie a lot and I have 8 humanity just for making a token effort not to be a complete and total bastard even though most of LA deserves what's coming to them vampire or not, so I'm gonna ask Yukie out on a real above board date fair and square after we slay the were-shark together.

>>3819145
Age and upward mobility certainly plays a part in it. I think part of the problem is that the scope of the game does not accurately represent how big the world actually is. I saw some numbers and you can roughly assume there is about 1 kindred for every 100,000 kine, and in some major cities, maybe 1 for every 10,000. There were roughly 6 billion people on earth in 2000, and that's 100,000 humans for every 60,000 kindred. Point of all these numbers is that with how many kindred are alive, and only a fraction of those having any real power, you could assume there is more than enough space for every kindred to have their own little personal power space and live peacefully.

>>3819301
Cont.
Also gotta consider there are a lot of vampires that just like the idea of freedom and dont desire anything other than standing around in a bar all day with their "friends", or running around with wolves like gangrel. A lot of kindred are probably not interested in playing the power games, so they wouldn't have to be given a piece of the pie... they just have to conform and play by the rules they naturally play by anyway because they're scared of the consequences, from human or vampire.

>>3819149
Mind diddled by Caine into doing the deed, possibly a patsy in the first place.

>>3819187
>would have been quite hard to pass up as a way for LaCroix to power up through Diablerie, even though quite below whatever an ancient sealed sarcophagus might hold.
But that's the point. LaCroix would not have benefitted enough from draining someone random of 7th generation to offset getting an Amaranth aura. He'd probably still have his muscle against pretty much the entirety of Camarilla and Anarchs in LA. And if the two hold out somehow, which is unlikely considering Strauss is definitely waiting for an opening like that just to take out an incompetent Prince, he'd have an Archon on his arse too eventually. If not worse.

>>3819430
Well, unless you always have to ask somebody with power above a city ruler for that, I remember that it is sometimes permitted, though a Prince or his muscle doing that would probably rattle up quite a few bloodsuckers. He could probably remind the higher ups that he needs more power to bring LA under Camarilla's heel. Then it's just the locals who would most likely be pissed about it (and that alone might be enough to do him in, since the dude seems to have passed up putting points into Fortitude, despite claiming to have been a soldier under Napoleon which should have taught him that shrugging off a bullet or bayonet is quite a handy ability to have, and Fort lets a Vamp to go even further). Might as well not work. The dude does plan to do an even crazier shit just expecting that the prize in the sarcophagus is worth it, though he might feel emboldened by the general feeling of dread accompanying its arrival.

As an aside, the 7th generation is when a vampire can use Level 6 of his Disciplines, correct? Man, I've known about Redemption and Bloodlines (and played B) since they came out and have even read some rules and stuff for the tabletop but only recently have learned that apparently the only difference between generations 8 to 13 is bloodpool and a number of points ta vampire can put into their abilities (though that alone is huge). Before I thought 13th gen was a Thinblood incapable of doing even Level 1 of his clan's disciplines but seems if he is willing he can just put all of his meager points into one Discipline and get it to Level 5 just like the 8th Gen can,

>>3819451
>I remember that it is sometimes permitted
"Thou art forbidden to destroy another of thy kind."
Even if it was somehow allowed, hypothetically, it would have every clan coming together to plot a diablerist's demise. Zero mistakes allowed from that point onwards, i.e. might as well go sunbathe right away. This is not Sabbat where it is not that much of a taboo.
>can use Level 6 of his Disciplines
Yeah, but even if LaCroix had Fortitude and Presence at 5 to get them and Dominate to 6, it would still not be worth it. At best he'd be slapped with a Blood Hunt and maybe kill a few before going down. His Nagloper friend (?) would have killed more anyway.
>apparently the only difference between generations 8 to 13 is bloodpool and a number of points ta vampire can put into their abilities (though that alone is huge)
And the number of points they can spend per turn.
>if he is willing he can just put all of his meager points into one Discipline and get it to Level 5 just like the 8th Gen can
Sure, but then he can still only spend one blood point per turn while an 8th generation vampire can spend 3.

>>3819388
Interesting theory. Maybe Caine got one of his higher generation followers to embrace PC as part of a plot, but it all relies on an amazing amount of luck to see the whole thing through, because there is no way Caine could anticipate PC would survive everything that they did.

>>3819530
>but it all relies on an amazing amount of luck to see the whole thing through, because there is no way Caine could anticipate PC would survive everything that they did.
7000 years of mostly suffering and boredom plus being a plot device that runs on plot devices would do that to a man.

>>3819530
I like that Caine is in the game kind of like an Easter egg but dislike chalking everything up to him. Why you were embraced, why your character got so strong, why you could suddenly resist LaCroix's domination attempts, why Andrei says you're so much stronger, etc. "Caine did it" ends up being a bit repetitive and shallow. I think Caine was to show how all vampires are connected and he's responsible for vampirism and what transpires but not that he literally directly orchestrated every event on purpose.

It could've been anything with your sire. Just someone who wanted a childe and was punished for it or became a bit careless. And then you were basically forcibly adopted by LaCroix and forced to work for him. That kind of thing has happened in real life many times. Maybe LaCroix was already planning on killing your sire and they thought they had a better shot if they embraced another. Maybe they were an Anarch who didn't want to follow Camarilla rules and that's why Nines was there and so incensed.

>>3819684
The generation of the fledgling will always come into question, and that raises far too many questions for people to just go with random chance. On the outside, yes, you can look at it like you're just some random douche that got picked up by a vampire, but when that vampire is one of the most powerful kindred that's currently active, it raises eyebrows. And to just get his/her head chopped off makes it even sillier.

>>3819794
cont.
I think it has been argued that PC is either a 7th or 8th gen vampire based on how strong they can get. Either number doesn't matter, because in the modern day, there is probably less than 1% of vampires active that are 6-8th gen. The vast majority of active vampires are under 60 years old, and generally high gen. A low gen vampire like the fledgling would be a huge target for others since no one knows them and no one cares about them, so it would be an easy meal for an insane power gain. Fledgling of that generation would be hidden away for centuries by their maker so that they would be trained to defend themselves properly.

>>3819808
I think the answer to this mystery of the gen is simply that Troika allowed themself some homebrewing with the source material because for a typical videogame rpg that needs to compress several thousand pages of lore and years of playing at the table in maybe 30 hours of content wod lore is simply not practical in terms of power snd timescaling. Videogames are gamey, thats just it. You could obviously make a true vampire wod game that makes you run around disoriented in 2005 with auspex 1 and being barely more dangerous than a buff human street thug for those 30 hours without any numerical character development but that would make a better adventure than rpg. Reaching a point where you single handedly kick the ass of an established tzimisce who is presumably of higher gen and hundreds of years old, probably by simply beating him with your bare fists is not happening in the week the pc even is a vampire at this point, unless they stem from the first elders that are not considered pure myths and there is what? Maybe a handful of those still existing in the whole world and they are pretty surely either asleep or so detached from existence that they dont randomly embrace humans in rundown apartments or even embrace at all anymore. Not even talking about directly taking part in petty micro politics or getting beheaded by a clown like Bastian.

So in the end all arguing about the PC's gen is just sugarcoating an unfortunate if necessary plot hole with headcanon to not break immersion.

>>3820468
well yeah, that's the other side of the argument, one that's been going on for decades now.

>>3820468
The taxi driver is Cain, he embraced the PC and dominated some hag into taking the fall because he is inscrutable, the end.

>>3820813
I prefer the idea that the player is the ancient vampire that was in the sarcophagus, and Caine just mind wipes you and frames a random clan appropriate vampire to "embrace" you

>>3820818
Yes, and then it is revealed that it was all just a dream

>>3820821
>Yes, and then it is revealed that it was all just a dream
Wow can I please get some spoiler tags, anon? Come on man.

>>3820468
Redemption just solves this problem by making Kristoff's Sire a really strong and important vampire and it came out earlier than Bloodlines. Ez.
Of course, saying that the devs just gave themselves some breathing room/didn't think that moment through is a valid stance but not particularly fun.

>>3821216
>in the prologue, wary crusader buys and wear the throat armor that protects you from being bit
>get bit in a cutscene anyway
Roofle owned scrub

>>3820818
that's just kotor 1's twist

Well, if it ain't the talk of the town; poster child of Camarilla benevolence. What errand does the [Spoiler]VTMB Thread[/Spoiler] have you doin' today, boy?

Well, if it ain't the talk of the town; poster child of Camarilla benevolence. What errand does the VTMB Thread have you doin' today, boy?

>>3812894
How do I install this with the latest gog version? Both come with their own version of the plus patch, cqm uses an older one.

Joining sabbat was the best plotline in any game I played. I just wanted power and independence, and ended up losing rest of my humanity and being a pawn only instead of being a pawn to a regular vampire I became a pawn to dirlewanger tier schizo. Probably like people get entrapped and blackmailed irl.

>>3827790
clan quest mod and the unofficial patch both install into their own separate folders, so you just need to use the separate launchers that should appear on your desktop after installing

>>3818211
Why would you want to save that fucking asshole to begin with?

>>3827803
To be fair, if you saw sabbatards in actions, their retarded """ideology"""", visited Andreis mansion and said "yeah, that's a splendid organization to join", you kinda do deserve to be a Tzimisce's doormat

>>3802880
>what is frenzy
Now of course, as a mechanic frenzy basically consists on making the game frustrating and even potentially soft-locking you if you're not careful with your saves. But it's there.

>>3828069
Probably gay stockholm

>>3821277
Not a bad one though

>>3820818
Never heard that theory. It's really cool. I'll scribble that down somewhere

>>3821277
>name character “Darth Revan”
>get introduced to Bastilla
>watch her sweat nervously
>get introduced to Jedi Council
>watch them sweat profusely
>???
>Profit

>>3819178
Funny, I remember the line as "a respected member of our community", but the actual line is "a loyal and upstanding member of our organisation", which is far less ambiguous, for sure. My thinking was that since the prince enforces traditions over all kindred (no V5 exclusivity bullshit), the Sire *could* have been an Anarch, but that would have been inconvenient for the story, since the execution would have raised tensions too high between the factions too quickly, effectively aligning the PC with the Anarchs by default.

>>3828071
Nothing wrong with Andreis mansion.
>you can twist and manipulate the fabric of mortal society and with that their souls, but making a head with legs out of a corpse is going too far

With sabbat it was that hispanic lady who wanted to make the sister of her ghoul addicted to heroin or something. So I found that distasteful and went to Hazel instead, and he was even worse, but I don't rememeber much.

>>3828248
Victoria was trying to help her descendant though. Her main problem is that she's a setite so she gets off on making people addicted to smack and she worships an evil chaos serpent.

The Sabbat being a bunch of deranged, hypocritcal lunatics is honestly lore accurate though. My main problem with the CQM's Sabbat route is how silly the final act gets.

>>3828217
>they camarilla, but will wantonly turn the PC into a vampire
>"loyal and upstanding", yet it being hunted and immediately found upon siring the player
>VERY ambiguous as to how powerful they are because you gets obscenely powerful
I know the PC's sire is there just for set dressing, but I feel like Troika accidentally made a character that's potentially very interesting

>>3802854 (OP)
Cursed Tremere blood hangs heavy on the air. Young too - squirming larva of the wretched brood who stole their immortality. Tell me childe, are you scared? Do I frighten you? is my VTMB thread unnerving?

>>3828380
I don't remember any of that but yes the sabbat are that but somehow I expected it to be different and more moustache twirly vs what I got, as as low humanity tzimisce. Tzimisce char model was also good for the clan, as well as the zulo form.

>>3828832
The Sabbat are such a mixed bag. None of them good, but not everyone falls into the "mwahahaha" sphere of things.

So, Bloodlines 2 is set to release on October 21st. Better late than never, eh?

>>3829771
>Better late than never
It's been too quiet. Really doubt they launch in October.

Hope they do. But I doubt it

>>3829843
Ok so new trailer just dropped today

https://youtu.be/1vt1FZSLUXg?si=Bsgdo2obo0Z4vonK

Looks like i was wrong. But imagine the bugs....

>>3829771
>Better late than never, eh?
In this case, better never. Fuck chinese room and their shitty "game". Fuck paradox for what they did to mitsoda.

>>3829847
Reminder
>four clans, two more as day one DLC
>still less than VtMB's seven

>>3828616
Didn't I kick your ass back in Beverly Hills, dude?

was looking around in the game files and found a conversation file for the ocean house. thought it was funny.

>WOOO. . .I am the Ocean House Hotel. Normally, you would enter this map and be treated to a nightmare-inducing experiment in terror. Unfortunatelty though, our people are still working on a mechanical problem with the doom buggies.
>May I have the ghost item?
>You got until the count of three to give me the ghost item.
>Where the hell am I supposed to get the ghost item now?
>If you give me the ghost item, I'll be your friend.
>You may. Here. Thank you for visiting Ocean House.
>Thanks, Ocean House.
>I am Ocean house, I comply. Here you are.
>Here, take my pendant.
>This pleases Ocean House. Here you are.
>Please enjoy the game. I am Ocean house.
>Bye, Ocean House.

>>3829926
clans won't matter outside of abilities. there's basically zero hints of any kind of lore awareness.

>>3829771
Does anyone genuinely believe this game will be good? Pretty sure most people would rather it just fuck off, none of this better late than never shit.

>>3830349
There are some people who don't seem too discerning who think the game will be alright, but it's getting a lot of criticism too even with bigger reviews. Looks boring, predatory DLC, etc.

Paradox is probably hoping to just make some money back but I don't see this being any real success. Paradox even said they don't want to work on it anymore for anything in the future.

>>3830359
>Paradox even said they don't want to work on it anymore for anything in the future.
That's a shame. They should sell it then and stop sitting on a good IP and crying about their mistakes.

>>3830393
Plenty of good IPs that are stuck with people who don't give a single fuck about them. Jade Empire and Overlord are my personal picks.

Eurogamer review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE7XHHus11w
>I can't hide it. I'm a little bit disappointed.
>And has it been worth the wait? ... I'm not sure.
>I'm concerned by how narrow the game is as a role-playing experience.
>Too often I've felt led through metaphorical corridors from point A to B, as though I'm playing a predetermined experience rather than shaping one of my own.
>I think it's telling that Paradox is leaning into the action part of the action RPG descriptor.
>From what I've played, this is more like an actional stealth game with some RPG elements rather than the other way around.
>And given the extensive and exhaustive resource material involved, a tabletop RPG that's been running for decades, that disappointed me.
>A character cringingly called Phyre, and who likes to announce their name at every given opportunity...
>Depending on which of the game's six clans you join, but note two of these you have to pay to unlock, which is grubby.
>Nice though they are to look at in these areas, there's little you can actually interact with. A problem that carries right across the game.
>For the most part, it feels like a place filled with non-interactive extras. This feeling extends to the building environments you enter.
>These halls and corridors are mostly empty with only occasional clusters of enemies there. It's a bit dull.
>Even the more central characters don't inspire much excitement when you meet them. They're nice enough to look at but predictable to the point of stereotype ... and the interactions with them feel stiff.
>But I also expect a preview build to be designed to showcase the best parts of the game I'm previewing and for the beginning of a game to grab and dazzle a player and convince them to stick around. I did enjoy some of what I played and I'm willing to give it another go, but I wasn't grabbed or dazzled.
I didn't expect such a grim review from a journo, her only positives were basically multiple "I liked the OP action a bit"

Never played the first game, does it hold up well as an RPG?

>>3830422
Meant to reply to you >>3829847

>>3830359
>predatory DLC
Eternal Paradox.

>>3830424
if you mean bloodlines, then leave this thread and go play it now, fag.

in all seriousness, the studio went bankrupt during development, it's clunky and some of the level design is nauseating... but man is it full of soVl

>>3830425
Cheers

>>3830422
Some people might have high expectations because it took so long to get here, but honestly it's the opposite for me. After all the shuffling around with development to get to here, it being even decent would be a pleasant surprise. Day one DLC (particularly something like one of the major clans) means there's no way I'm buying it at release at the very least though. I'll either pirate it if there's enough talk about it being good where I don't feel like waiting or just wait for some "definitive version" on sale years later for some fraction of the price when they've given up on milking it to see for myself.

>>3830559
People have high expectations because they like the original. It could be a somewhat okay game in its own right, but thinking of it as a Bloodlines sequel is guaranteed disappointment.

>>3830359
>Paradox even said they don't want to work on it anymore for anything in the future.
The original plan was to cash in on the old fans, give "a different flavour of the same shit" to ADHD zoomers, all while milking their predatory business model. They quickly realised that they can't have it both ways - you either make a proper, story & dialogue driven lore-rich Bloodlines sequel, or you make a fun bing bing wahoo for the zoomies. Appealing to old fans wouldn't have been lucrative enough by itself, so decided to sack the devs and start fresh. Any optimistm they had would have been gone by the time Chinese Room put out that first gameplay trailer (and everyone hated it). At that point they already knew that whatever they put out won't sell well enough to offset the development hell - it's obvious they just want to cut their losses, put something out, get paid and forget the entire ordeal.

>>3802854 (OP)
>childe

>>3830702
Vampires do this shit all the time. Embrace a vampire? They're not your child, they're your childe. The first vampire? Caine, not Cain. We do not do things all day, we do things all night. We do not live, we unlive. We do not X, we Vampire Word.

>>3830424
I played Redemption for the first time a few years ago, after sleeping on it when it came out, but I absolutely loved it, despite the jank.

>>3810459
>Blade's vamps suck as far as superpowers go
>in 2 and 3 regular vamps don't even bother doing vampire things
Vampire games for this feeling?

>>3830780
>Vampire games for this feeling?
Read “Passovers of Blood” by Ariel Toaff.

>>3830422
It feels silly looking at all of the optimistic anons in this thread and elsewhere. There was no chance in hell it was going to be a good game with all the years of development hell. The moment you know you're dealing a voiced, named protagonist you can generally kiss a well rounded RP experience goodbye, though I understand why some disagree. Having a narrator however, (which between you and me is sure to quip every few minutes) in a franchise built around discretion and brooding music and gloomy atmosphere is one of the dumber decisions you can take. No matter how good the game would otherwise be, which, realistically, would still be a somehow even worse Cyberpunk, given how they seem to have set the tone for modern action RPGs, that would still always be in the way.
But I was thinking about a realistic best case scenario, which let's say would be that the previous iteration of the game were the one getting released, and still what would you get? Gameplay would be jank but that's nothing new, save the refugees nonsense would be pushed but that's par for the course. I don't think they could come up with good writers to write compelling dialogue or generally create an atmosphere like in the 00s (this partly has to do with technology, the weird animations and models of the source engine contribute to the unease and tension- but obviously has more to do with lack of talent and passion). But really consider the zeitgeist. You could tell the original devs were really into goth culture, they didn't just slap in Marilyn Manson and Evanescence everywhere and they definitely didn't consider metalcore and the likes. What's the current day alternative? Probably e-goths and thots and the thinbloods on the beach would be listening to some mumble rapper instead of Darling Violetta.

>>3830815
I've written all this in something like a fever dream because I am indeed sick but it occurred to me to watch the first 5 minutes of gameplay and sure enough
>I know the back of my hand like the back of my hand
>Hand on heart, haha I don't have either
>Trite violins playing in moments of confusion. I guess the first Joker movie started that trend.
You can also tell from the first lines of dialogue that the voice in your head is a perceived evil yet wholesome figure with some secrets behind. Astarion-like. Likely gay

>look at the Bloodlines 2 footage
>a thug tries to brawl the protag for a bit unarmed, even jumps around a bit
>gets instantly bodied with superhuman strength
Reminds me of Bloodrayne 2 where one of the basic enemy grunt types were dudes and dudettes, often not even vampires, fearlessly trying to punch the heroine (or would swing a pipe at her if they felt bold) who was faster, stronger AND had double blades to make blood and body parts fly all over the place. One of the many little things that made 2 worse than the first game, where many enemies were normal humans and they not only smartly tried to use superior firepower to kill her but also believably ran away in fear if spooked enough.
Also, do Unreal Engine devs just don't bother with making a more unique interface or was there some study that showed that people don't care/react super positively to stock Unreal white UI?
Unsurprisingly it doesn't look like I will be a great fan.

I want to try this game again
I got up to the Malk mansion and then lost my save

What's a good clan for melee combat in some form. I don't mind the mage clan with blood magic but just don't want ranged since I don't want to manage ammo

How fucked is Malk? I tried a quick hour of it and it was confusing as shit but sort of made sense. Like you had no clue what the options meant but could ascertain if the dialogue was going to piss someone off or at least advance the dialogue

And plus patch or regular patch? I just want to be able to use dialogue for quests like persuasion but got told intimidation and seduction are mostly pointless

>>3830866
Brujah and Gangrel are the your best options for melee but with an insignificant amount of metagaming any clan can be fit to do anything. Play around with it, it's not a tough game

>>3830866
pick any clan other than malk and go with basic patch. persuasion is op; the others give good rp flavour, wouldn't call them useless at all. keep in mind dominate discipline gives you dialogue options too.

>>3830736
The word for vampire actually used to be "vampir", but because vamps kept referring to themselves as vampires the word eventually stuck around for mortal usage.

>>3830866
My first game with Malk was fine. Everyone acts like it gives away the whole story, but you won't know what any of that shit means on a first playthrough, so it doesn't matter. Malk has some great disciplines. Dementation has dialogue prompts, so its very useful to get what you want without seduce or persuasion, and it has some really funny interactions. Obfuscate is also downright broken, especially if you rush it early on. It makes some incredibly annoying stealth missions not so bad anymore, like the dane and museum. Every time I play this game, I loathe having to do the museum without Obfuscate, and the only other clan that gets it is Nosferatu, which has its own problems. The only other clan I would recommend on a first playthrough is Tremere, because it has unique interactions with a certain character and its just comfy.

>>3830928
this is true, the original serbian word was vampir and it becomes vampire in the vocative

>>3830424
just play it. also if you've played new vegas youll feel at home.

>>3830866
>What's a good clan for melee combat in some form.

You have a few options. Brujah has Celerity + Potence, so you can hit hard and move fast enough to dodge enemy counter attack. Gangrel that are focused on protean are highly debated. They do a truckload of damage but many players hate how clunky the claw swipes are. Nosferatu also have potence so they can hit like a mack truck and obfuscate helps with stealth sections.

Ventrue can become the single most tanky thing in the game with Fortitude + Presence and Dominate helps with utility in both dialogue and for stealth. They can go either melee or ranged just fine. Gangrel fortitude focus can work similarly.

>>3831450
no guns or melee? really?

>>3831450
This can't be true

>>3831452
You can see it in the trailer- you can use guns and weapons through telekinesis but you can't actually pick them up in your hands and hold on to them.

>>3831450
>no humanity
I ain’t buying this shit

>>3831450
Is this "removed" as in not a part of whatever the fuck they're sending to the press, something someone working on the game has said is no longer present? Or just completely made up I guess
It's not like I need to be convinced to not buy the game either way (because no way in hell is that happening), but that sounds kind of sketch

>>3831459
The no permanent guns or melee weapons thing has been 100% confirmed multiple times. It's actually pretty much the only thing they kept from the Hardsuit demo, which is wild because it was one of the most bitched about parts about that demo.

>>3831450
Having Gangrel probably would've been nice since it's a common complaint about Protean making Gangrel not feel as great to play in VtMB as it should

>>3831450
So it is now linear action with a bit of adventure?

>>3831450
>no guns no melee
huh???????????????????????
so how does combat work? am i going to be a vampire wizard casting lightning bolt at everybody?
there is no way this is true
>confirmed
how, in what way, and by whom, also source????

>>3831463
no permanent guns or melee weapons is one thing. the sega genesis punisher game had no permanent weapons too. but the screenshot says "no guns, no melee". bare fist combat is still melee

>>3831619
read at least some posts itt retad

>>3831621
it says "no melee weapons"

Aside from everything else, that detective thing worries me quite a bit. It sounds like it means unskippable sequences and a voice in your head telling you where to go constantly

>>3831982
so far it's looking like some awkward mix of Condemned and Beyond Two Souls

i mean who needs lockpick when you can just vapor squeeze yourself through any vent

>>3831983
I was thinking more Johnny Silverhand, but without any charm

>>3802854 (OP)
never trust a francy

>>3820813
way to tell me you have zero knowledge about vtm in general. lol

>>3820818
what's with this schizo theory?

>>3828248
>>but making a head with legs out of a corpse is going too far
>>out of a corpse

>>3830866
Ventrue with Fortitude and Dominate is great for melee. You can chop most of the things to bits and for the rest you command them to just die on the spot. The mass version even has a decent chance to work on other Kindred. Some of the bosses provide some challenge too but nothing too bad for as long as you have blood bags and ideally a few really powerful weapons that go through ammo very quickly just in case. And even then you only might want those special (late game) weapons for only one boss.

>>3831619
>so how does combat work?
Unarmed and powers, as every video out there shows in the dull repetitive "hello fellow modern spectacle fighter fans" detail.

>>3828719
"It seems that Tremere are very contentious..."
"You have made yourself an enemy for Unlife!"

>>3831601
I played gangrel once... horrible gameplay, gives op buffs to physical during frenzy, but you're a derpy retarded man bat you can't control and if it gets near an enemy you just slap it a bunch and slowly move to another enemy.
it's the vampire equivalent of using aim bot in fps games.

I started replaying a little while ago. I forgot how much I hate those fucking elevator buttons in the Skyeline Apartments

>>3834028
Fair. It can be quite tedious.

Here's your Deb of Night caller, fledgling

>>3834436
We all knew the writing would be bad. What causes this? Clearly it's all pink haired tumblr dykes who write shit like this, but who were the talented writers of the 00s? They didn't have lit degrees either. How does quality drop off so extremely?

>>3834436
is that really deb? oof... voice and face for radio indeed

>>3834439
Complex systems won’t survive the coming competency crisis.

>>3834436
>>3834439
ew. I eagerly await the Forspoken tier bad dialogue montages.

>>3834462
those are a couple of cunts "playing" and yapping non stop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKvWJc5v4Ts&t=3238s
>>3834542
One of the first few lines from the game is
>I know the back of my hand like the back of my hand

>>3834592
A lot of the dialogue options in Bloodlines were kind of goofy shit, but you also are playing a random person who suddenly got dragged into vampire society.
I hadn't really thought about it as there's one million other red flags, but if the PC in bloodlines 2 is supposed to be some elder vamp out of torpor that sounds like it would really limit the dialogue options that don't seem really wrong.

>>3834599
I'm not talking about whether the dialogue is fitting of an old vampire as much as I'm talking about the quality of writing in general. There's goofy then there's the type of writing that you'd find in a teenager's journal. Take
>Oh, wait, he's smoke on the goddamn wind, so you can't!
Nevermind the overall structure which is old trite. Consider each individual word. Look at ", so you can't". Imagine the fucking retard who needs to be shown consequence with "so", else she wouldn't understand it, so that's how she ends up writing it herself.

>>3834439
It's called catering to an audience, the audience in this case being quirk chungus types with fluorescent hair, ASD and gender dysphoria.

anything that scratches the same itch? I've played the choice of games vtm games and the princes of darkness mod
even tried playing a tabletop session with an LLM but that wasn't really any good

>>3834911
There's a lot of first person rpgs out there that are similar in some ways (though usually more light on the RPG parts), but you probably wont find many that really feel the same

>>3834911
other than the usual suspects of deus ex, new vegas and potentially KC:D I wouldn't know what to tell you
where's your itch? if you're talking about the atmosphere, there's a bunch of mid 00s action games that might be vaguely similar. obviously i'm thinking blood rayne

>>3834439
T-The writer was just roleplaying as one of the anarchs in a sort of letter right?
This isn't a true example of the general quality of writing, is it?

>>3834920
The last part kind of makes it clear what you're reading

>>3834914
>>3834916
I'm usually a crpg player but vtmb has insanely good atmosphere/lore/worldbuilding so anything like that or in the same universe would be rad

>>3834934
The only other WoD game I've tried to play is Redemption, but I gave up on it after being sent to a cave to kill goblins. It is not a very similar game. It's kind of a cursed IP.

>>3834934
Planescape? What can I say man, there aren't many 30 year old games which haven't been recommended in the last 20 years in which people have been asking for games similar to vtmb.
>>3834920
There are hundred million budget movies and triple a with worse writing. Realistically such shitty writing is not unexpected when you consider the type of people attracted to vampire games as I've written in torpor here >>3830815 >>3830819. The game is written by 40 year old tumblr dykes who are too untalented to work for Hollywood

triple a games i mean

>>3834938
Redemption is extremely based and I love it. Great story and writing. I think you gave up on the tutorial dungeon.

>>3834942
The RPG side of it is sort of a joke, but Cyberpunk does do a really good job on atmosphere, and I do think it's generally just fun to play. If you mean atmosphere as in a similar atmosphere to Bloodlines, I think you're kind of doomed

>>3834945
I did finish the tutorial dungeon, but something about dungeon diving and potion chugging in a vampire game was just really off putting to me. I remember fucking around in the town for a while as well, but everything is kind of a blur since it was a while ago.
I know the game eventually has a time skip as well, so maybe it changes tonally later, but between being kind of stuck with a very specific character concept on top of everything else I just got the impression there wasn't anything I wanted there.

>>3834946
I never cared to play it and I'll never play a game with constant narration to supplement batman vision, and cutscene dialogue

>>3834941
I've played planescape ages ago, but yeah I know what you mean
I quit when I reached that one fortress in space, not really sure why. might've been fatigue.

>>3834934
Its not a CRPG but consider playing "Vampire the Masquerade - Night Road". I liked it a lot. Its a text-only game where you play as a 10th generation kindred courier who delivers packages between high-ranking Camarilla figures in various cities in Arizona. There's stat checks, disciplines, etc. It has 650k words in total (The lord of the Rings is roughly 480k words, for reference). I recommend trying it out. Just pirate it if youre not sure

>>3835041
Night Road was alright, but I there wasn't as much actual branching in the sense of consequences for your actions, it's mostly just "do the same thing but in a different way". The decision making process also becomes largely trivial and unsatisfying once you realise that you don't choose what makes the most sense for the situation, you just pick the option that you have the most skill points in.

>>3834916
>where's your itch?
Not him but:
I want characters that aren't autistic high fantasy loredumps. I was fine with Morrowind because when it comes to most NPC interactions, the lore is mostly a backdrop - the characters themselves are mostly dealing with relatable, mundane, real-world issues, with some supernatural sprinkled in. I was not fine with stuff like PoE or DAO because I couldn't give a fuck about whatever unworldly shit anyone was yapping about. VTMB, in my opinion, has this balance worked out perfectly. Characters like Jack and Bertram give you a basic ADHD or sarcastic lore rundown while constantly showing awareness that this stuff might otherwise be dry as shit for you. The fact it's meant to be based in a contemporary setting rather than high fantasy, seems to help the characters stay grounded in "reality". Lore itself is not a problem - it being a crutch for every NPC interaction, is the problem.

I also like seeing my (in)decisions have a measurable impact on the game world, being able to make mistakes and continue with the consequences e.g. Wasteland, New Vegas, Disco Elysium (to an extent).

As far as theme or art direction goes, I think it's up to each individual game to achieve something that feels just right; I don't try to seek out a particular "vibe".

I tried Planescape and dropped it after I got tired of dealing with infinitely spawning enemies in a village. I should play Deus Ex some time.

>>3835041
yeah I played night road and I liked it. got me binging some other cyoa games too

>>3831450
Oh who gives a shit, it's been like a decade of one shitty newspiece after another so youtubers can make fag outrage videos. It's just a hate machine, it probably will never come out and who cares. That post reads like parody at this point. Just add No Game at the end.

>>3835442
It has a release date in October, so I wouldn't count on the never coming out part.

Oh, so THIS is why you people always recommend CQM...

>>3835883
I was thinking of finally trying that out, but never got around to it because I'm kind of afraid of the quality for multiple new quests. How the humanity change?

>>3835883
I never finished that quest because it kept bugging out. For what it's worth though, my thought on the CQM is that it's a very mixed bag. Worth playing through once and that's it unless you really like east L.A. as a hub. The Clan Quests are actually the weakest part.

>>3835883
This bitch is so fucking obnoxious.

>>3835219
I think you could at least try giving KC:D a chance

>>3835929
The quests that I've seen range from inoffesively boring to fucking annoying, I mostly ignore them.

>>3835956
I always play CQM because it has the Unofficial Patch (game is very buggy goes without saying) plus Camarilla Edition Lite which has features that make it more immersive like blood loss over time. Which the vanilla game should've included honestly. Other than that it doesn't change the feel of the game or do tasteless retarded reskins. Imo it's the best way to play the original game, it's the same but optimized. I never play it without it. The only thing is the clan quests which like you said are the weakest part. I've played the ones I've found once and then ignored them.

>>3837213
This board is so fucking slow that I've actually played through most of the added stuff in it. I didn't think any of the added quests were too bad aside from some really questionable mic quality a few times, but then I got to east LA and it was just a lot of walking around in a map that could have been half the size. They treat it like the easier alternative to hallowbrook hotel, but I'd rather just go through that in hindsight. Voice acting for that part was actually a fair bit better though.
That kuei-jin chick was the worst though. That quest was basically "Let's go through a list of places where you have a reputation to lose and risk pissing people off". The lore dump was kind of interesting though
Overall I'd say it was interesting for adding things the game didn't really bother to focus on (content for low humanity, any real clan specific lore other than some npc reactions if you aren't a malk or nos, something to actually do in the warrens, expanding on the sabbat), but a lot of those I just don't think are important to me. There's some good NPC designs in there too.
>>3837218
If nothing else there's little reason to not use it. It doesn't use the latest version of the unofficial patch, but I doubt that means much more than a few missing closets and some items moved around

>>3837270
>If nothing else there's little reason to not use it. It doesn't use the latest version of the unofficial patch, but I doubt that means much more than a few missing closets and some items moved around
Yeah my thoughts exactly

>>3837270
>That kuei-jin chick was the worst though
It was retarded, you're basically forced to go along with her on some unhinged binge because woo she's so wild and cool, and she just turns on you on a dime if you contradict her on anything. My memory is fuzzy on this bc I haven't done a run in a few years. But I still remember the eye rolling.

>>3837218
>which has features that make it more immersive like blood loss over time. Which the vanilla game should've included honestly.

Hard disagree. Blood loss over time puts you on a clock and disincentivizes you to just chill and enjoy the ambience of areas, which is one of the game's strongest factors. Not to mention, getting blood isn't actually difficult, just time consuming. So all passive blood loss does is punish you for taking in the atmosphere with a tedious and unchallenging bit of gameplay.

>>3837345
Yeah I wasn't a fan of blood loss, or blood heal. Or when people say the game would've been better with a day/night cycle.

Those things could've been interesting as sparsely used mechanics though maybe. Not constant things throughout the entire game but say in a quest you get injured and have blood loss that you need to manage until it's over could've been neat. But I usually find those kind of survival mechanics simply boring and tedious when constant.

>play a brujah with every possible melee advantage
>it's still significantly easier to just shoot Ming to death
Melee really is just kind of fucked against big enemies, huh

>>3837498
Unfortunately. Fighting these things as a non-Celerity melee character is tough as well. They hit you just as fast as you hit them and they do a ton of damage.

Jack does tell you during the tutorial that you need to learn how to fight both with melee and guns though.

>>3837345
>which is one of the game's strongest factors
I see your point but ambience is compounded by the immersion in the experience of, well, being a vampire in a nocturnal world of conspiracies and so on. And this
>blood loss over time
is part of it and a sensible addition to it
If you don't have an incentive to hunt for blood, you don't feel like a vampire do you? In pure vanilla it's just necessary for disciplines.
You're not wrong to say those mechanics can be tedious. You can find yourself in an annoying situation and I have plenty of times.
But it pushes you to plan out what you're doing, and because it's a mechanic that makes sense for a vampire, it immerses you more into the fantasy, which in turn enhances the atmosphere.

>>3837345
Also because it really is not that tedious. Blood loss is not so quick that you can't stop and take the world in at your own pace. If it was fast that blood is the only thing you can think of I'd say that's too much immersion for me lol. But it isn't, it's just an extra thing you have to keep track of and ultimately you have plenty of opportunities to feed or get blood in other ways through the game. For me it adds more than detracts.

>>3837383
>Or when people say the game would've been better with a day/night cycle
Kek well having to watch out for sunrise also sounds good on paper for me, but yeah in practice it would probably be too annoying considering some missions can be lengthy and you don't want them interrupted, plus you can't do anything in the daytime anyway.

>>3837566
I hate those fuckers

>>3837761
>>3837764
I play the tabletop, and the way the mods handle it is not lore accurate. No passive regeneration is tolerable and provides enough incentive to not burn through blood. Bloodlines doesn't deal in a day/night cycle, which is what actually passively drains your blood. One point to rise every evening, so for me, losing it on a timer is anti-immersion. Because of that, occasionally getting a blood tick down in the middle of the night is just annoying at best, actively telling me to get a move on and not enjoy the empty santa monica pier at worst. I can spend minutes at a time just enjoying the atmosphere of the game, so that becomes highly tedious for me to have my blood tick down.

It does have something to do with the kind of player you are, but plain and simple I find it annoying and actually quite immersion breaking.

>>3835883
I've always treated CQM as completely radioactive because I looked it up on YouTube and the quests were either boring garbage, edgelord garbage, or leftist garbage.
I'd be cool with it if it were actually of good quality, but it seems like a bunch of low-tier fanfic shit. Installing that crap is an active decrease to the overall quality of the game. I'd only consider playing it if I was so starved for content I had to have a fix no matter what.

>>3835219
Yeah, PoE is really, really bad about it.
I know exactly what you're talking about, and PoE is one of the worst examples.
Feels like Chris Avellone finally got let off of his leash and could do whatever he wanted, so he created an aggressively generic fantasy universe and filled it with his own angry spiritual angst while huffing the scent of his own farts.
There's no emotional core to it at all. If you don't buy in hard to the worldbuilding concept, then it's just endless eye-rolls. He expects you to be fascinated and in awe at a world concept that basically boils down to "Generic fantasy gods but... they're le bad???"
It's self-indulgent fedora core slop. A lot of buzzwords, I know, but I really aggressively hated that shit.
It feels like the fundamental premise is basically just a deconstruction of the D&D fantasy pantheon concept... And that's it. He obviously doesn't like D&D deities, and the goal was to explore the drawbacks of that cosmic premise. But that's not impressive or mentally stimulating enough to keep me sitting there hooked on it for however many dozens of hours, and there was no other hook to the setting beyond that.

>>3837868
>Bloodlines doesn't deal in a day/night cycle, which is what actually passively drains your blood. One point to rise every evening, so for me, losing it on a timer is anti-immersion
I didn't remember it that way bc I haven't read the rules in a long time but I get it.
I agree it's a personal thing because for me even tabletop-wise that doesn't really work for me because those mechanics are just there to reflect something happening and what's happening doesn't correspond to real life as much as the timed bloodloss does. Like irl you don't get hunger points when you rise, you get them over time as you digest food. Blood logically would work the same way, so a timer is more immersive for me. But yeah, preferences I guess.

>>3837903
I don't even know where it would fall on a political spectrum, but the east LA shit with the whorehouse and that girl you save there gave me serious tonal whiplash.
I haven't tried every single clan's quest (so maybe some are terrible?), but I think ultimately it just gives you more stuff to do if you don't want to play a certain way.

>>3838006
Modder fan fiction: not even once

>>3835883
It is kind of fitting, in the setting, and in the "vibe" of early 2000s, which is where many people would like to return to.
Neither all work and no play "rightoid", neither "demolish the society that tolerates us" leftoid.

Just an honest to God, faithful to the setting, wwyd kind of scenario.

>>3838029
One thing about the kuei-jin that the game doesn't really make clear is that they have some ghost qualities and aren't just chi vampires. I don't really know shit about Wraith so I'm kind of reluctant to say more, but I don't think some kuei-jin character having a backstory where they ended up in someone else's body after they died is the worst way to tease the concept.

>>3838029
why would you keep this though

>>3838006
>but the east LA shit with the whorehouse and that girl you save there gave me serious tonal whiplash.
I get that, it's a bit more explicit than the writers themselves would've gone. I do actually find The Mack something of a guilty pleasure. He's what every Lasombra player character actually comes off as, despite the constant assertion that they're suave, genius manipulators.

>>3838030
>One thing about the kuei-jin that the game doesn't really make clear is that they have some ghost qualities and aren't just chi vampires.
Having read the tabletop lore, I think Bloodlines made the right call keeping the Kuei-Jin as vague as possible. As it stands they're already the weakest part of the game (not even the most interesting part of Chinatown). If they'd gone full ching chong kung-fu ghost corpse I think it would've ruined the game's tone something awful.

>The Bet of Night
This shit has to be AI generated

>"Hey ChatGPT, I need a punny name for my VTMB inspired radio show, something like "The Deb of Night""
>"As a large language model trained by OpenAI, I have analyzed your request thoroughly. Based on your description, I recommend the name "The Bet of Night." The word "Bet" is phonetically similar to "Bat"—which is a nocturnal creature—thus providing an amusing and fitting pun that aligns with the themes of night and darkness associated with Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines. I hope this suggestion meets your creative needs."

>>3838064
I'm sure there will be no shortage of things to complain about in there, but doing a new version of Deb of the Night with a slightly different name isn't really what I'm worried about.

>>3838064
Just utterly incapable of making something original. Not that I care anymore.

>>3838109
It just looks too ridiculous to me, very much like something an AI would come up with. I refuse to believe someone put any real thought into it. "The Deb of Night" worked because it was a play on the common phrase "the dead of night", but with "The Bet of Night" there's no such thing as "the bat of night". It even sounds awkward, any English speaker would more naturally say "the night bat" here, like "the night owl". You can think of it as a small thing that clearly encapsulates a couple problems we've already seen, poor writing and devs trying to use nostalgia for a game they don't even understand

>>3838139
Night Al
but short for Allison

>>3838141
>a couple of fags on an anonymous whiskey taster's symposium come up with better ideas than actual paid, certified professionals

>>3838147
Many such cases

>>3837980
>Like irl you don't get hunger points when you rise, you get them over time as you digest food.
Reanimated corpses that run on fundamental components of creation mixed into blood do not have to work like hunger works on you IRL. Which, by the way, is the same RL that coincidentally lacks vampires. That anon's stance makes more sense even from a least subjective viewpoint.

>>3838163
>Which, by the way, is the same RL that coincidentally lacks vampires.
See, that's where you're wrong, kiddo.

>>3838164
>confuses the Fallen and their worshippers for proper vampires
Many such cases.

>>3838163
Vampires are real dumbass

>>3838064
I hope these faggots don't chicken out and delay again. I want the internet to tear this game a new one. I want it to tank Paradox's stock even though they insulated it by resurrecting the white wolf name again. I want this game to be a generation flop, a mega-flop, a flop so vile and catastrophic corporations stop doing IP necromancy for a few years at least.

A fella can dream, right?

>>3838437
Oh that's why I keep getting banned when I talk about the local... you know what, forget it.

>>3838386
>a flop so vile and catastrophic corporations stop doing IP necromancy for a few years at least
Paradox has already accepted flop status and dropped (not sold) the IP. The game coming out at all is pure damage control.

>>3810335
Once upon a time when I was in vacation I I went around to pick up and sell every gun I could find individually (since just the ammo is less valuable) and this was AFTER I maxed out finance
had just enough money to stack up the colt / shotgun / uzi to use burn the ammo against Andrei and clearing sewers
didn't buy any clothing upgrade tho, otherwise you're absolutely right
if the kuei jin temple didn't give you ammo for all currently equipped guns, and you're guns-only, it may soft lock the game
>>3804020
as much as I enjoyed 80% of Redemption, the very beginning nearly turned me away because Kat is able to turn Christoff when she really shouldn't be able to touch the guy considering his true faith

>>3812832
>that brief time period when internet wasn't as popular and you could impress your Berceni clan people with music like in VtM
quality times, balls

>>3838923
The game gives you so much chance for free melee training, that it's hard to imagine getting truly soft locked without actively trying to be. There's also a couple guys with guns to loot in the puzzle basement area of the temple

>>3838923
Were you doing side quests? I do all the side quests and pretty much have more than enough money to full stock up by the end of the game. I don't buy every gun available from vendors though, just a few throughout. But I can still buy all the armor, some blood packs, occult items, etc.

>>3838971
Ammo itself isn't all that expensive. I think the thing that would really hurt would be buying guns instead of finding one of them first. I usually just save guns for bosses and have a shit ton of extra money though, so I don't really know how that would normally go down if you really committed to only fighting with bullets. If you do stuff like save your trash look for after free finance training and are willing to subject yourself to not always using the best weapon, it probably would be doable. More so if you take the stealth/talking options when offered early-on
Sounds like it would be really frustrating more than anything since aiming feels way too shaky to me until you get to 10 in firearms where it's just perfectly stable

>>3839252
>>3810335

Its actually super easy if you dont go arena shooter mode and just use the best (latest) weapon available. Guns in that game have a surprising variety and just because its the newest one you are able to buy doesnt mean its the best one to use.

So you go for the .38, Glock, Shotgun and MAC-10 most of the games smaller enemies. Glock especially because it fires what 18? rounds per mag, is relatively accurate, the ammo is cheap. semi auto and has enough damage to even end weaker supernatural foes. Also you obviously use the weapon which has the most ammo lying around at the time. If you fight a bunch of triads with MAC's you use that etc. Thats really where the RP comes into play here. Actually dangerous supernatural obstacles are pretty rare and during mid Downtown you should be strong enough to borderline ignore mortals.
Obviously, if you insist on killing every single street thug and Tzimisce creature by fanning a full clip of magnum rounds into them and the surrounding environment you will run dry on funds pretty quick. Apart from that there are only a few enemies that are so dangerous that you need to go in guns blazing. Just wait after every shot/burst until your aim is focused again so you actually hit things. I did playtroughs with Malk, Tremere and Toreador all on ranged only and it worked fine every time. Toreador being the best obviosuly because celerity just brakes the game at five points.

>>3839466
Shouldn't Auspex temporarily improve the firearms skill too? Never did a ranged-focused character.

>>3839494
It does. Firearms skill you can easily get dots 4 and 5 for free with, but if you want to save exp on perception that's one way to do it. Personally I think just raising perception is better, and there's no benefit to raising ranged combat above 10. I only ever use it for hacking or stealth

>>3839500
>and there's no benefit to raising ranged combat above 10.
You still get more damage when going over 10. For melee too with Potence.

>>3839500
>>3839534
You get more damage and as far as I remember you actually get more accuracy because the "waving" of the weapon depends on the difference between the weapons requirements and your characters ranged total so the SWAT rifle is only perfectly still during scope view if you got over 10 ranged.
Also whats definetly the case is that the reduction of time it takes after a shot to aim accurately again and the kickback both apparently have no "cap" at 10, so full auto with a MAC for example gets better with auspex on.

I only take a second discipline to five dots after I'm mostly done with my build though so I maxed auspex only with my malkavian before late game because I found it also fitting RP wise. This said I never tried a stealth sniper, its probably great fun even though there is no dmg benefit.

>>3839534
With potence I think it's noticeable, but I never noticed anything significant for guns with auspex.
Out of curiosity I just tested it on the guard in the skyeline apartments with that late game sniper rifle. Clan Quest mod if that matters, but I doubt it.
It's 152 with ranged combat 10
176 with ranged combat 13 from auspex
176 with both auspex and bloodbuff to get it to ranged combat 15.
For laughs I also put presence in there and it was still 176
I suspect what matters is probably the difference between the enemy's combat defense stat and your attack one, and in practical terms 13 gets you to a point that doesn't matter for that particular NPC, but that's just a shot in the dark and as this is a fucking ancient game at this point I'm sure the actual answer is out there already

never would have thought vtmb warranted a full on discussion about combat like it's fucking dark souls. i don't get it, you just go in and kill. it's never that hard no matter what you do. am i missing something here?

>>3840447
Yeah, fuck figuring out what stats do and shit

>>3840447
Eh if you do pick the wrong stats some fights can be tough. Especially in the endgame where things kind of go to shit.

>>3841121
The game gives you a lot of free training in firearms and melee. You're only in any real danger if you never raise strength, perception, or any of your disciplines

>>3841449
>You're only in any real danger if you never raise strength, perception, or any of your disciplines
That happens, unfortunately.

VtMB has a surprisingly okay combat system so I like seeing it discussed a bit more. I think the issues in the game are more related to balance than the mechanics being inherently bad.

>>3841502
I think the only real learning curve for the game's combat is just the fact that there will be unavoidable fights and the combat system doesn't really allow you do just ignore stats and fight well instead. Or that you should just generally wait to bother with guns.
Playing the game a second time you might know that you should be at a certain point for the kuei-jin, that plague bearer quest, or before you start the sewers. But I could see stuff like that catching someone off guard on their first run if they wanted to play a talker/sneak and it just feeling like you've hit a wall

>>3841504
My first run, I played a toreador and didnt bother too much with combat skills. I had maybe 1 or 2 points in melee by the time i reached downtown and got absolutely bodied by Brother Kanker. I rage quit and eventually started over with a ventrue and this time actually invested in combat properly

>>3841502
It's kinda unintuitive but if you play enough times it starts "clicking". I have had some real fun breaking things with the right powers and weapons.

Presence is really slept on. In terms of raw tank Fortitude is probably better but weakening enemy attacks, lowering their attack rate, and making them more vulnerable through lowered wits is amazing.

>>3838437
you lie, that's not an option.

Lacroix maxed out speech/manipulation and tried to do a talker, no-fighting run.
Look how it worked out for him.

>>3842090
Living for hundreds of years and a high position in a powerful organization?

>>3842096
>a high position

>>3842106
nta, but prince aint nothing to scoff at.

>>3831455
>you can use guns and weapons through telekinesis but you can't actually pick them up in your hands and hold on to them.
.....WAT?
I thought this game being a downgrade from VTMB was partly a meme, but ffs
I'm staying far away from purchasing it legally.

>>3842421
>canonically gets scoffed at by everyone immune to his domination.

>>3842429
To be fair, aside from getting crushed in those doors, the Werewolf scoffs at our murderhobo ass, so being able to counter someone's strongest strategy is a good reason to scoff at them.

>>3842425
I think it's jude law voicing the male protag. sigh i might play the piece of shit after all. If only i could be nosferatu

>>3842429
well he kills your sire because of the rules and forces you to work for him, and he calls a blood hunt on Nines, two things only a prince can do, and people go along with it, despite not liking him... so, he has authority, whether or not the anarchs want to admit it. they still begrudgingly follow his rules because he is in charge.

>>3842668
He wouldn't have had his authority for long without his Sheriff.

>>3842670
Probably, yeah. The Sheriff was definitely his main source of power, but since the Sheriff only follows LaCroixs orders, you can pretty much just count them together.
It's funny how often the anarchs cry about lacroix and the camarilla, and they talk a big game, but the reality of the situation is that when lacroix calls a blood hunt on Nines, the rest of the anarchs literally do nothing, and in fact don't seem concerned at all that PC is there talking to them despite being the possible killer. they just sit in their bar doing nothing, their big words dont really mean shit because they're still passive and living with lacroixs decision.

>>3842694
>that PC is there talking to them despite being the possible killer.
They'd probably doubt you'd be able to do that. I know storywise you can take out Ming, the Sheriff, etc. but Nines was a capable fighter who killed a werewolf.

Anyway open rebellion against the Camarilla would just result in them all dying or the Kuei-jin using it as an opportunity to attack as well. If you side with the Anarchs and meet with Nines he'll tell you he has troops all over the city fighting back against the Camarilla. They were only able to do that because you came along and singlehandedly stopped Ming. Not to mention the Sabbat being right next door as well. I think the point is that everything was kind of a stalemate powderkeg for a while because whoever made the first big move would be left vulnerable to someone else like a Mexican standoff.

>>3842736
PC can kill the werewolf, too. You trap it in the observatory and crush it with the big doors. And sure, they may doubt that PC is capable of doing anything, the point is that they're still doing nothing about it. They aren't rioting at lacroixs office or planning some big move, they just sit around and sulk over their position like usual.
All this is to say that Lacroix has authority and no one fucks with him, as much as they may dislike him. He rules LA, he makes decisions about what goes on there (and yes, mostly bad ones). Just saying downplaying his position doesn't make any sense to be, regardless of how much of an idiot he may or may not be.

>>3842744
I was pissed off that the devs only allowed players to kill it with the doors, with celerity you can kinda outrun it and enough bullets will bring anything down.

>>3842668
People go along with him because the Prince of a city is typically the largest authority (or else he doesn't last).
Also, anyone who kills the Prince is usually faced with the awkward situation of:
1. Taking his position and then having to sit the throne.
or
2. Being rewarded as an assassin often is by the successor.
It doesn't hurt that vampires, at least before New World of Darkness, are primarily a more conservative splat (in the sense that stability is prized), especially as they age.
Nines basically just holds court in a less fancy place and is, for all intents and purposes, lesser nobility insofar as any of the vampires are nobility.
LaCroix isn't good people, but being a Prince sucks dick (at least in my opinion from having played Old World of Darkness). As his enemy, I'd rather let him have the authority and have to deal with everything from new vampires who can't remember the customs to the old autists with grudges as old or even older than LaCroix.
Some of this might have changed in New World of Darkness, anyway, but I think Bloodlines was made when the only reference was OWoD.

>>3842835
>New World of Darkness

Bro, nWoD is dead. V5 killed off both nWoD and oWoD because Paradox didn't want WoD5 to have any internal competition. Neither is allowed to release new books.

>>3842835
I just don't like this idea that Lacroix was a hopeless idiot that no one respected. On the surface thats what it looks like because everyone is so vocal about how much they despise him, but underneath that facade, they're just going along with his decisions anyway. Lacroix is calculated with his requests obviously because he knows there's only so much he can ask from this group, and i'd say that makes him smarter than most people give him credit. He is playing a game, and he had done fairly well up until that point, at least so far as to not get overthrown or killed. Yeah they are scared of him only because they are scared of the sheriff, but like i said, the sheriff doesnt seem to have a mind of his own and just does whatever lacroix tells him. Useful pet to have.

I don't know why they bothered putting a dexterity penalty on the best armors. Dex isn't a combat stat in the game, and switching clothing is just a click away. It's just a pointless minor nuisance

>>3843068
If he's so smart, then why is he dead? Every talker still needs to be able to fight, in the end.
His physical stats and fortitude were so low that he couldn't even tank the explosion. His combat stats were so low that he gets shanked by an adorable little fledgling.

>>3843244
I can write the shanking off as him being caught off guard after his dominate doesn't work, but he clearly wasn't putting points in fortitude. I assume he probably neglected that sort of thing due to having his pet gorilla, and honestly anything that could beat that in a fight he would never have a chance against anyway.
His real fuck up is he went too deep into enemy territory without more people loyal to him (but he likely just did that to look good to some elder higher ups, so it's not like it was an "accident") so all he could really do is hope to pit other factions against each other with tricky bullshit, but there's a functional limit to that before your luck runs out. He probably could have "won" if he just forced the main character to blood bond with him at the start, but that scenario still ends with a boom and realistically he would always see it as redundant with dominate

>>3843134
>Dex isn't a combat stat in the game
It affects blocking. Your dex gives you an equal bonus to defense while blocking.

>>3843260
There's no indication it does that on the character sheet at least. Combat defense is based on wits and dodge

>>3843068
You do realize they're complaining about him because his position as the Prince may not grant him absolute power, but they can expect others to strike them down (either to build their own power by taking control of their organizations or to curry favor with the Prince) if they defy him too much.
On the same token, he's literally the King on the Chess Board: the most important unit but he can't do around doing all of his own work, someone would decide to clip him.
>>3843016
Is it New World or V5 where they put out the gay ''''Muslim'''' vampire?

>>3843285
Yeah, the tutorial does a poor job of really explaining all the melee mechanics which is unfortunate because it's actually not too bad of a system.

There was a manual included that explained more, or you get this during a loading screen sometimes

>"While in melee combat, you can block (default key: Tab) to give yourself a bonus to Defense. This bonus is equal to your Dexterity."

>>3843357
I do wonder about some of the mechanics in this game that I've just never bothered to figure out, despite playing it a shit ton. Like weapon damage also has some weirdness to it in the inventory that I don't think really aligns with the damage dealt. I have no idea if the way damage reduction works means stamina is still taking damage away if a weapon is lethal or aggravated etc

>>3843304
V5. nWoD was a different setting by the same people that re-used terminology a lot. V5 is the skinsuit edition that insists it's still Masquerade but really isn't.

>>3843369
So was nWoD just some attempt to make a more clean and coherent version of the setting that has ironically just become kind of dated now or what? I remember it having different clan names for vampire, and even different major books like Changeling and Promethean, but I had completely lost track of WoD before they did a newer version than that

>>3843386
The reason I bring this up is because the lethality rating on weapons compared with the other damage stats in the inventory screen has me wonder if attacks are actually a combination of bashing, lethal, and on rare occasion aggravated rather than simply only being one of them

>>3843387
Oh I see what you mean. I think that's how it works with bashing and lethal. Lethal is basically just bonus damage with its own separate defense stat but everything has a base "bashing" damage. It says bladed objects do lethal damage but blunt weapons still have lethal damage ratings too, it's just typically lower. And e.g. shotguns have higher lethality compared to pistols even though they both use bullets which are considered bashing and not lethal against vampires.

Aggravated is more specific though. The Talmahera blade is supposed to be the only one that does aggravated damage and vampires don't seem to reduce damage from it as often. Fire weapons and and stuff like Gangrel claws or Potence attacks also do aggravated I think.

>>3843386
>kindred treat bullets as bashing damage
I get what they're going for. A tiny little bullet ripping through organs isn't going to be that harmful to them. Still looks strange to read it that way, though.
Shouldn't it also depend on the kind of bullet? Does a shotgun do lethal damage?

>>3843399
>Shouldn't it also depend on the kind of bullet?
Yeah, guns have a base damage of 1-3. Small holes are 1 and big holes are 3. Shotguns are 2 and usually have a higher lethality than most other guns.

>>3843399
In a more complete simulation, yes.
I think the best gun in this game is an AR, which while painful to living creatures does relatively limited tissue damage compared to say an anti-material rifle.

>>3843374
So, New World of Darkness (which was actually just called World of Darkness at launch, very confusing to everyone) was a sorta-reboot, sorta-unique setting done largely because the writers felt "trapped" by their own metaplot and felt as if the setting was too crystalized to really work with anymore. That feeling, combined with declining book sales on all fronts, even (though to the leastmost degree) vampire convinced White Wolf to go for a clean slate.

They launched with a generic "world of darkness" system book for playing mortals and Vampire: the Requiem. The idea behind nWoD was to have a more flexible, customizable, and mysterious setting that would allow STs more options and writers more freedom in what they could do. However, the abrupt, apocalyptic end of oWoD combined with a confusingly named half-reboot left a bad taste in a lot of fans mouths, who boycotted or otherwise disliked nWoD out of hand. VtR's major struggle was that wasn't different enough from VtM to stand out on its own, and not similar enough for invested VtM fans to make the switch. I don't mean to say that VtR was an inherently bad game, just that it had a very troubled launch.

All that said, it evidently wasn't a total failure as nWoD ended up getting more total gamelines than oWoD did. With far less popular and more niche lines like Changeling, they actually saw more success by doing a completely different thing with it. Hunter: the Vigil was another stand out winner, being closer to the original Hunters Hunted rather than HtR. nWoD was in the process of putting out a Second Edition (renamed Chronicles of Darkness for clarity) at roughly the same time as oWoD was getting its 20th Anniversary editions. Paradox bought the IPs and killed both of them off, refusing to approve of new book releases, in order to make room for "5th Edition", which they wanted to use as the basis for all video games going forward.

My table uses a mix of nWoD and oWoD lore.

>>3843472
>the writers felt "trapped" by their own metaplot
>combined with declining book sales
If a ruleset/setting/game/whatever ever achieved perfection, would it inevitably be ruined because they need to keep making money off it so they need to keep messing with it.

>>3843482
Nah you can just spam like twenty dungeons and splat books.

>>3843482
I'm just saying what they stated as to why they abandoned oWoD. I also would argue if oWoD was this perfect thing they could keep printing supplements and metaplot updates for ages.

>>3843528
Writers would eventually burn out. So at least that first point would be a deathflag.

>>3803632
Any advice for a new player? I started VTMB and went with Ventrue on a whim and I'm getting my ass kicked in fights. Tried to spec into guns but so far it feels like a mistake.

>>3843566
Early game guns largely suck. Some people say the shotgun is good but they're high. You can brute force most early game fights with a knife/unarmed and bloodbuff. You can also get some free brawl and melee dots if you pick the right dialogue options.

The biggest bonus (and trap) of being Ventrue is that all your disciplines are good. Dominate is amazing utility, helps in both stealth and combat, plus has dialogue use. Fortitude and Presence both improve your survivability, when combined they can make you very tanky. One late-game build, the Tanktrue, relies on this combo to no-sell every attack in the lategame and just kill everyone with your choice of melee or firearms.

Persuasion is still a worthy pick because most vampires you can't dominate and it also requires scholarship, which can let you get more free skills via books. Talk your way out of fights whenever you can but when you get into one
>Fortitude
>Presence
>Bloodbuff
>Swing for the fences

switch for guns if you want by Hollywood, between the Anaconda for bosses and the Glock for shitters that'll do you for most of the game. Other guns are icing on the cake.

>>3843566
Guns are mostly shit until the late game aside from maybe using the shotgun a bit in the sewers, but there's also little reason for only using them as even at the late game melee is useful for the hordes of enemies you go through that are easy pickings so you don't waste ammo
There's a lot of free training if you hold off on certain skills until certain points of the game. I'm not saying you should look them up or whatever for a first run, but leveling up the attributes before skills even if they cost slightly more will generally save you exp.
If you want to bother raising dominate, you should probably put a new dot in it every time you get to a new hub at minimum. That's usually the most you need at a given time, but I barely remember.

>>3843566
You can feed mid-fight. Pop Fortitude, maybe even Blood Buff and suck fuckers dry. That strategy will work almost always, provided you get extra dots in the discipline when mortals get better weapons. In the endgame, I tanked shotguns that way and while feeding, healed faster than they shot at me.
Don't use guns, use melee. Without investing in fighting skills, Ventrue will destroy Santa Monica, except for the gallery fight and the Kueijin spy.

>>3843482
We'd be approaching heat death of the universe by the time they'd properly reconcile Vampire, Mage, Werewolf, Hunter, Mummy, Fallen and so on.

>>3843580
Did Presence get buffed or are you all just repeating what you remember from 10+ year old runs? It debuffs enemies very close by to your PC and sometimes daze them. It debuffs supernaturals (i.e. mostly Kindred) by 3 dot value at 5 dots. It flat out doesn't work on bosses.

>>3843617
>or are you all just repeating what you remember from 10+ year old runs?
NTA but why would the game have changed since then?

>>3843617
>It flat out doesn't work on bosses.
Since fucking when? I did a run a few years ago and high level presence slapped. Enemies were attacking so infrequently, weakly, and taking extra damage and the range wasn't an issue when most fights are in hallways or rooms.

>>3843566
>specced into guns
Guns kind of suck balls until later on.
The good news is even as a skill-let you can avoid a lot of open conflict

>>3843566
Guns are fine if you spec into it. Only problem is how often you will run out of ammo and have to switch weapons.

Surely a vampire would only use guns to kill people while maintaining the masquerade. In any other situation, they would use their vampire voodoo.

>>3843622
>>3843626
My UP is older and it uses a mostly unchanged Presence from how it works in the base game, this is why apparently.

You can just unpack the data files and look at disciplinetgt_003.txt yourselves. If any of the tiers has
Affects_Table
{
Affects_Filters
{
"Boss" "1"
}

Default_Mapping
{
"HitTable" "Hit_Boss_NoEffect"
}
}
that means it doesn't work on bosses.

>>3843653
So some retard modder has just been fucking with the game and arbitrarily changing things and adding garbage for decades now?
>t. played the game once when it came out

>>3843670
Yes, but I think mostly that has to do with him having decades to consider shit like "you know, maybe I should put this skill book in this unused room instead", which while it can be considered at least mildly annoying usually isn't in terrible taste or anything and does make more use of the game. I've never paid attention to any combat changes

>>3843670
He definitely had good ideas at first as my late 2009 version of UP can attest. I vaguely remember some objections to some minor changes back then but it wasn't ever a big deal. But over the years, decades now, it looks like he just couldn't let go and kept doing things for the sake of continuing to do things.

>>3843686
>>3843997
I installed the Standard Mod Patch and was pleasantly surprised by the return of pedestrians just silently staring you down, instead of yapping their retarded idle UP-restored lines. A lot of these things are, ultimately, a matter of taste.

>>3841504
The sewers especially can fuck you up on a first playthrough

>>3843482
>the writers felt "trapped" by their own metaplot
uh yeah we're all trapped in it right now
now they just release sloppy slop

Why would an entire discipline just not work on bosses? Not even with a reduced effect? That just seems like bad game design.

>>3845002
What discipline are you talking about?

>>3819149
Depends on clan backstory-wise, probably. I usually play Ventrue so I always assumed my sire was one of the no-name Ventrue underlings Lacroix throws at you in the tower (possibly trying to amass a power base for a coup via an unauthorized childe), it's not hard to imagine a Brujah/Malk/Gangrel sire being Anarch or just not caring about rules, that kinda thing. Only really raises strong questions for me is a Tremere sire's case

>>3819149
I always assumed the one Lacroix caught wasn't your real sire. The sexy lady in the room was just there to keep an eye on you.
Don't know how your sire convinced her to die for him, though.

>>3845105
Presence, in relation to the earlier discussion.

>>3845360
I dunno, that poster said they're using an older version of the Unofficial Patch. The UP has made random changes to how Disciplines work at times. I tested it in the vanilla game without the UP and it works on bosses. It probably won't ever stun them like it can other enemies but it's still debuffing them.

I remember in a much older version of the Unofficial Patch for some reason it let Tremere stunlock pretty much every boss with level 2 Thaumaturgy. But that's not how it worked in the vanilla game.

>>3845375
>tested it in the vanilla game
Is it v1.2? I really need to keep a back up of the unmodified game's data files somewhere.

>>3842106
>Bite my dull grey undead ass

>>3844633
Holy shit it's uncanny. Good post anon

I really wish I could play a trench coat wearing Nosferatu and not have to look like a gimp. Same goes for Malkavian outfits. There aren't any good clothes mods are there?
>>3845375
As I remember lvl 3(?) Domination would be something like a 1/5th health nuke on some bosses. Unofficial patch is a mess, unless I'm mistaking it with wesp, unless of course it's the same thing. It's been a long time. I saw a youtuber playing on the latest version and at some point he descends in an uni-textured red basement talking to a voiceless NPC. Maybe I can find it.
Nevermind, this works just as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_OjODP6n_0&list=PLEWtOfTgRszxofsQDPdyzGsiBh5sXmns-&index=41

>>3845392
Yeah 1.2. I have multiple installations of the game with different patches so it makes testing easier and if I ever need a clean version to install a new mod or something, would recommend that.

>>3845503
>As I remember lvl 3(?) Domination would be something like a 1/5th health nuke on some bosses
Yeah it does that on some bosses in the vanilla game. It always kills a human but will usually just damage a vampire. You can instakill Gimble with it but it just does a small amount of damage to Ming.

>Unofficial patch is a mess, unless I'm mistaking it with wesp, unless of course it's the same thing.
Wesp is the creator of the Unofficial Patch

>>3845503
A lot of the mods out there are clothing mods, but I don't know about how they are quality-wise
As for the unofficial patch, at this point it's basically just wesp's unofficial patch, which you either use the "plus" version with some extra shit of questionable quality or the vanilla version. I could have sworn I remember there being two different unofficial patches competing at some point in time (not to be confused with clan quest or anything like that), but I don't remember the details of it.
I do remember thaumaturgy being a lot stronger when I played years ago, but fuck if I'm going to attempt piecing that together

https://tiermaker.com/create/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-playable-clans-17702282

Post yours.

>S
Ventrue are just Toreador but better. Sure, Toreador have super speed, but Ventrue's Clan Disciplines work together perfectly and compliment their base stat distribution and based on the skills you choose you can just focus on any two disciplines + social skills. Even with dominate in dialogue, Persuasion and Intimidation can still have some separate use and Persuasion you can bump a lot in the character screen alone through scholarship which in return let's you get extra skill value with research. When I first played the game, I was using Ventrue and I was so tanky that I didn't understand why everyone was complaining about the Ming Xiao fight. And their blood feeding downside is actually relevant but not too punishing outside of the sewers.
Malkavian are self-explanatory for the uniqueness of their play-through. Their disciplines make the first half of the game a cakewalk. Obfuscate makes not only Stealth completely redundant (and you can get level 3 easily by the time you reach the warehouse) but also lets you avoid many of the social skills other clans need to invest into to talk their way out of human situations. The only downside is Auspex which barely does anything for you, and boss fights against enemies who can ignore your other disciplines.
>A
Nosferatu get the second most unique dialogue after Malkavian, Obfuscate covers all their weaknesses, and they are actually decent in combat even without it. I prefer Potence over Animalism, so you can deal max damage in boss fights.
>B
Tremere and Toreador are just watered down versions of Ventrue to me. Tremere does get a unique discipline but it's just damage with different textures. At least they get a unique place in the chantry. Toreador's "humanity" feature is completely useless.
>C
Brujah is just combat : the clan, barely any special dialogue/features for being Brujah.
>D
Gangrel watered drown Brujah.

>>3845608
>which you either use the "plus" version with some extra shit of questionable quality or the vanilla version.
The basic version isn't really vanilla either, it still includes various extra changes and restored content. It's just like the lite version of the patch.

>I could have sworn I remember there being two different unofficial patches competing at some point in time
There was the "True Patch Gold" and the "Unofficial Patch".

>>3845619
>There was the "True Patch Gold" and the "Unofficial Patch".
Also, more recently, the Standard Mod Patch. >>3844633

>>3845618
Mine is more do with how much I like each clan in general, rather than gameplay.

Malkavian, Nosferatu, and to a minor degree Tremere, offer a unique playthrough. The rest are basically the same. Still don't think it's the kind of game where speccing is that important, but to each their own, I guess.

>>3845622
Yeah unfortunately that one still introduces random changes too plus whatever wasn't removed from the Unofficial Patch it's based on.

>>3845625
Basically all but Malk and Nos are the same, but I don't think those two are particularly fun after experiencing them once. You can count each other clan's unique lines on one hand, and frankly given your character's place in the world it's kind of embarrassing for them to even give a shit about representing theirs to quip at other vampires
Not having to deal with that apartment and waiting for an elevator is nice with Tremere though

>>3845629
>whatever wasn't removed from the Unofficial Patch it's based on.
huh? i thought it was built on vanilla from the ground up

>that one still introduces random changes
supposedly it branched out after a certain version when he started making cosmetic changes. but yeah, at some point it can be impossible to distinguish what's a pure bug fix and what's "intentionally broken".

>>3845635
>huh? i thought it was built on vanilla from the ground up
No it's built from the basic version of the UP which isn't vanilla. Some extra changes were removed but it's unlikely they would all be removed as finding them all would be a big task on its own.

Has anyone ever made a statistic of all the uses of social skills in dialogue?

I am wondering if there are any exclusive uses of Intimidation, Persuasion, Domination, Dementia and Presence. I think that Presence is usable only in situations where Domination and/or Dementia is usable as well, but less than the other two overall.

The pink one is of course the least useful one for most situations, but in return it gives you masquerade free feeding in bars and if you pick all pink options with Jeanette, you can have SEX with her before you even do her "slash the paintings" quest, so you can theoretically pick Therese or get extra XP by helping them fuse together, and still lose your vampire virginity before that. And I really wish that UAP/Plus Patch would make the seduction lines unique to your character's sex, so men cannot use it on male guards (i.e. policeman in the tutorial, surf house guard, possibly the Astrolite guy too?) unless you pick Homosexual as your trait, and women can't use it for female blood banks in clubs if they're not Homosexual. In return for making Seduction more of a side skill, Subterfuge should give bonuses to... Persuasion maybe.

I noticed that the wiki says Appearance is "Highly recommended for female characters."... so maybe seduction lines on men were already supposed to be exclusive to female characters? But I am pretty sure the UAP/Plus is what added Homosexual. What's the point of Homosexual then?

So VTMB 2 is in two weeks and there isn't a word about it itt.
It's really over isn't it?
but then it's made by a bunch of faggots from sweden so I personaly think you're retarded f you're expecting anything positive there...

>>3845649
Without looking it up I can tell you people have definitely listed them out. Keep in mind some clans don't have the full dialogue options from the disciplines though
Off the top of my head there's almost no situation where dominate can be used where persuasion isn't just as good other than like killing Boris and maybe a couple other time saving moments.
Dementia is basically the same as dominate (but Malkavians can't do a couple persuade checks, so it's actually more useful for them).
Intimidate is basically good for one check early game that only gives you money. It often just pisses people off
Presence I don't actually know that well off the top of my head. I've never played a Toreador that raises it early enough in the game to matter much.
I don't know what female characters get out of seduction that male ones don't that actually matters off the top of my head. You can fuck Romero, but that's hardly something to brag about. Other than trading risk for loading screens by getting blood dolls in clubs and fucking Jeanette, I think there's a handful of dialogue options that have a lower seduce than persuade requirement (Giovanni Mansion quest off the top of my head). It's the one that probably has the most "exclusive" content, but it's also nothing particularly important

>>3845658
>Without looking it up I can tell you people have definitely listed them out
Funny that, whenever there is VtMB discussion going on somewhere I remember how frustrated I was as a kid when I saw that the wiki for the game is so lackluster, compared to something like TES. I definitely was interested in seeing all the branching dialog paths and never got to.
I had no idea Presence can be used in speech checks, must be another patch innovation. Though it always bothered me how if you play, say, a Ventrue, you'll have already leveled up Persuasion to be consistent with the type of character you'd play, and then it's wasted by having access to now 2 disciplines which take care of that.
>>3845608
Going through the patches is definitely a trip. I enjoyed one version where Malkavians' dialogue was the same but written in regular font. Also I could swear Tremere didn't have access to Domination in dialog at some point.

>>3845654
Legally speaking, I don't know exactly when something becomes false advertising, but it has to be close with that game. The only connection is like the IP rights

>>3845686
It was fine for BG3.

>>3845690
If BG3 took people's money first and then repurposed the game to the point where it isn't even an RPG I'd say the same thing

>>3845693
Then maybe Cyberpunk 2077. Fell a long from what was promised to an FPS with RPG elements.

>>3845680
>I had no idea Presence can be used in speech checks, must be another patch innovation.
>Also I could swear Tremere didn't have access to Domination in dialog at some point.
Yeah both of those things are from the Unofficial Patch changes. In the vanilla game only Ventrue can use Dominate in dialogue and Presence has no dialogue.

>>3845695
Dominate dialogue being Ventrue exclusive does seem better. Tremere have their own tricks.

>>3845694
Closer, but this case still feels more shady to me. I'm pretty sure it only exists because they already had the pre-order money

Has anyone played that WW2 mod? It looked pretty high quality at first glance, though obviously incomplete and lacking in some areas. I liked the setting and character models a lot

>>3845696
With the unofficial patch they can only use level 1 dominate dialogue options anyway. Same with Brujah and presence iirc. It's basically a fluff clan feature

Why did your sire die like a bitch? He must have been at least as powerful as La Croix.

>>3845713
>He must have been at least as powerful as La Croix.
you mean like physically? lacroix was physically weak and really only got by due to having control over the sheriff.

>>3845713
Just according to keikaku.

>>3845717
No, in terms of vampire blood powerlevels.

>>3845604
Interesting. How do you measure the debuff working on bosses? Increase in average damage?

>>3845719
Blood in VtM doesn't work like in some of the movies.

>>3845765
A bit, I'm not sure if every boss has much Wits to really notice if your damage will increase. But you'll definitely notice they do less damage to you. They just resist the stun part of Presence which might be why that poster thought it didn't work on bosses but none of the other stuns work on them either. Presence is a bit more defensive than offensive.

>>3845803
I was looking through the game files for boss stats and found this. It shows how bosses resist Disciplines but they're limited to Dominate/Dementation/Thaumaturgy. So Presence has full effects on them except they can't be stunned.

>>3845819
I thought the guards in Ming's temple were so tanky compared to everything else and they have really high defense stats including Stamina being 6. I don't think anything else has Stamina that high including bosses. Even with maxed out combat stats they still seem rather tanky.

Ming also has 1400 health which is way higher than anything else in the game, the Hengeyokai has the second most I think at 968 and you can repeatedly freeze him during the fight along with having Yukie there for extra help. You can actually just edit the text files pretty easily to alter things.

Seems like it would be pretty easy to make a balance patch to make the combat a little more bearable in some parts.

>>3845654
astonished they didn't cut their losses and cancel the game years ago with how many teams passed it around. makes me wonder why they are so persistent about getting it out the door - it certainly isn't a passion project!

>>3845836
I was really surprised to hear someone saying it was releasing, despite having seen nothing about it here at all.
I'd more or less written it off as vapourware myself.
But they basicly cut all the RPG elements except dressup from the game then, judging by the threads answers?

>>3845836
Maybe it's something to do with the licence. Can only hold onto it if you show you're actively working on a project, even if it's all pretend.
I mean, god forbid anyone else get a go.

It's up!
Bleh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV8gmuZFaM4

>>3845843
As far as I know they've already given up on it
>>3845836
I think they're looking to coast off of the success of BG3. The game is sure to have a bunch of weird gay transsexual rigamarole in it and those fat tumblr dykes are sure to buy it, if they ever hear about it. It's essentially the same audience which doesn't care about gameplay or staying true to the source material, they just want some sassy gay guy narrating their retarded adventure.

>>3845819
>>3845833
Look into "disciplinetgt_003.txt". It defines how Presence works. If there's still Hit_Boss_NoEffect hit table used for anything with Boss set to one (via filters), then it still applies. And the only question remaining will be whether the Boss flag is set on everything that we the players would consider a boss. It might as well be only set on the woof for all we know, at least in v1.2.

>>3845766
You sure about that? I read that in the VtM universe, the further you are from Caine, the weaker you are in gameplay mechanics. If someone is a generation above you (or two?) they get to Dominate you. LaCroix does it to you, because he's 1-2 generations higher. By the end, you develop the Iron Will perk or something, which let's you resist Domination 1-2 generation higher. And because you have like 15 blood points, which makes you 8th generation or something.

>>3845878
Dominate immunity, larger blood pool, being able to spend more blood points per turn, and having higher limits to the number of dots in traits past 8ths about covers that, yes. So while the potential for more exists it is not anywhere like in those movies.
>And because you have like 15 blood points, which makes you 8th generation or something.
This has been debated much and there is no good consensus. Might have been done for gameplay reasons.

>>3845878
Given the player's power growth in less than a year since he was turned, he had to be high generation.
Especially how you tear through other vampires, pretty much all of whom would have been older.

But then you can't forget it's still a game. Did Troika ever confirm that was their intention? Or did you just level up quickly like any adventurer on a quest?

>>3845885
I really don't think anything other than being some not terribly impressive generation and Cain just handing out power ups discretely whenever you're in the cab makes the most sense. That's only in reference to blood points and traits though. I don't particularly think the game has to justify you not sucking at combat
If the sire was some low generation mastermind you'd think people would have more to say about them

>>3845895
Low generation doesn't mean old. It means probably embraced by someone old unless it's 2nd in which it's certain that the sire is someone old. Low generation doesn't mean the vampire is powerful either. It only means he can spend more blood per turn and has "denser" blood storage. And can't be puppeteered by a higher gen ancilla with Dominate. All of their power comes from all that experience that lets each character get those points into traits has more room for improvement. Generation only starts mattering once both of the characters that are being compared are experienced enough.

>>3845866
It seems inconsistent with the boss flag. Chastity is marked as a boss and so is the werewolf, but Andrei isn't and neither is Gimble.

The discipline file seems to say it won't affect bosses for the stun but everything else should still work. Gimble doesn't seem to get stunned despite not being marked as a boss but I assume there are other triggers for when a boss fight occurs that could affect it.

The only thing is that Presence doesn't seem to affect Andrei at all during his second fight. Maybe his transformation affects how things target him but his damage always seems the same and he never gets the Presence effect above his head like everything else does.

>>3845836
CDPR, unironically. By all rights that should've crashed but they managed to pull themselves up by the skin of their teeth. So this makes big "too big to fail projects" become massive money pits that tossed around like a hot potatoe until something gets made.

>>3845885
>movies
You keep saying that, but all thaty stuff is directly from the source books.

>>3845978
Woof also has strata 7 i.e. immune to anything anyway.
>The discipline file seems to say it won't affect bosses for the stun but everything else should still work.
Can you post the relevant bit? Or maybe put the whole file into pastebin. The one I have only has visual effects for everyone but Hit_Boss_NoEffect for those with Boss equalling 1. The Effect_Src_Instant section only has visuals. Everything else has specific conditions for selecting which HitTable is used.
>but I assume there are other triggers for when a boss fight occurs that could affect it.

There are also the Hit_Strata_# entries. Maybe I'm misreading it and both apply, i.e. for any boss regardless of whether it has the Boss flag something like Hit_Strata_5 might be used no matter what.
>Andrei
In my old UP he has no Boss flag and DisciplineStrata (the thing that determines which Hit_Strata_# table is used) set to 5 in both forms. He is in "npctemplate001.txt".

>>3845989
I don't think the sunken cost really has the same stakes for this one

>>3845990
The point being that in movies old vampire = powerful vampire. Stronger, faster, has abilities and so on. Here it's more experienced vampire of lower gen = somewhat stronger than equally experienced vampire of higher gen. An older vampire that just stayed in torpor or was doing nothing important (VV?) for a thousand years will be about as strong as a fledgeling. Similarly a freshly embraced 7th gen won't be doing anything fancy too.

>>3845994
I don't think VV is a very old vampire. Susan doesn't strike me as an ancient name.

>>3845996
Hebrew name, used in book of Daniel in the Old Testament.

I can't find any list online that compiles all the dialogue checks per character. Weird, I thought people would get this like from the game data somehow already.

>>3845992
https://pastebin.com/xyzWTsqt

There's pic related in it but I don't think it actually means Presence is entirely unusable on bosses. I just tested it on the Sheriff too and there's a very clear big damage reduction with Presence 5 and his attacks are much slower despite being flagged as a boss. I think maybe it's another flag that can be set but it's not active during the debuff part of Presence.

>Hit_Boss_NoEffect
>{
>"Duration" "-1"
This is what's under the part about being stunned. Presence 1 doesn't have a stun chance and it's not listed there like this, it's only added in for level 2 and up. So it seems that the "effect" not applying to bosses is only the stun. And like I said there might be other triggers in the map file or game scripts for when a boss fight is initiated that could place limits on Disciplines like simply not allowing any of them to stun the boss.

The strata stuff seems a little confusing but I think it mostly applies to the wolf like you said since that doesn't seem to be activated as a boss fight but when I tested it, it looked like the wolf was kind of shrugging off the particle effect. I haven't seen that on any other bosses.

>>3846102
>This is what's under the part about being stunned. Presence 1 doesn't have a stun chance and it's not listed there like this,
Look again, right above the first instance of Effect_Src_Instant in the file. It's not just for stun. It might be only a script but it's not how algorithms work.

>The strata stuff seems a little confusing but I think it mostly applies to the wolf like you said since that doesn't seem to be activated as a boss fight but when I tested it, it looked like the wolf was kind of shrugging off the particle effect.
The hit strata is what determines how the target is affected. I really doubt they would bother with extra map scripting and you are literally looking at a "game script" that determines how this specific feature works. They already have configuration files this detailed for each discipline so why bother with putting things elsewhere. Every case is inside the disciplinetgt files defines which specific variation (not visuals, you can ignore them) is going to be applied to a specific target. I expect either the 1st matching effect to apply with lookup stopping there, or each of the matches applying. The latter is bad programming, or scripting in this case, so I doubt it. That would explain Presence 5 working on the Sheriff despite him having the Boss flag set. He has hit strata 5 so according to the file you've posted he, and almost everyone else, will get affected exactly like a regular mortal. Clearly an oversight because as a supernatural he logically should be getting Hit_Supernatural with possibly a chance of Hit_Supernatural_Mesmerized, but it is what it is.
Regardless, the only way something might have changed in UP is if the way those things are interpreted get fixed which would make, for example, the Sheriff use Hit_Boss_NoEffect which just ends all of the handling immediately. The only way I can see that happening if there's sorting after parsing the entries in UP and if those with the Boss flag get put before all others.

>>3846111
>Look again, right above the first instance of Effect_Src_Instant in the file. It's not just for stun. It might be only a script but it's not how algorithms work.
That's what's in the pic. The way the hit_boss_noeffect line is handled is clearly different in the stun sections and none of the bosses can be stunned with Presence. That's why I think that part above the effect_src section is just defining a flag that can be used later but is not activated at that time since the debuff is still definitely affecting them.

If the debuff wasn't meant to affect them either then I would expect it to have a -1 duration set there too.

There's also a similar line for not affecting non-boss supernaturals above the effect_src section but it doesn't stun non-supernatural bosses and it will occasionally stun non-boss vampires.

>and you are literally looking at a "game script" that determines how this specific feature works.
Yeah but there's clearly more going on elsewhere. The game is notoriously jank in programming. Otherwise something like Gimble not marked as a boss wouldn't have a fight with a boss health bar. There is more scripting done in the map files on when and how to activate a boss fight.

The stun section is under a defined "Effects" and that's where hit_boss_noeffect with a duration is set. So the debuff might just be considered as a different kind of effect compared to the stun and only the latter is being altered with hit_boss_noeffect at that time.

I kind of doubt they would make a Discipline entirely useless for every boss fight. Obfuscate is a little different since that would just completely break them all but even that still works on some bosses.

Is there a way to remove the 9 companions limit from compmod?

>>3846126
I can fix her!

>>3846129
In hindsight, I don't think Grout would have approve of fixing a malk's brain problems by talking to them the right way

>>3846137
Talking?

Would a Celerity, Fortitude, and Potency Discipline (Caitiff of course) be able to take down a Crinos in a face-to-face 1v1 fight? curious what can.
>Magic bullshit
Naturally, not my thing though.

>>3846126
you're not cool or funny for misusing the spoiler tags like that, you fag

>>3846316
?
what were you expecting?

>>3846313
>in Bloodlines
Only if you had the Tal'mahe'ra blade. It does 10 per swing instead of 0-1. Once I actually managed to brute force the Werewolf as a Tanktrue. Burnt through all my blood packs, but I did it.

>on Tabletop
Comes down to so many factors it rapidly becomes a pointless white room scenario. However, werewolf glazers often overlook how werewolves can't soak silver at all in any form but human or wolf form, depending on the wolf. One time a guy on /tg/ theorycrafted a Brujah Ancillae who could one-shot Crinos werewolves with thrown silver darts.

>>3846424
you can only kill the werewolf in direct combat with the plus patch

>>3846313
With enough lucky dicerolls, you can do anything.

>>3846424
Forgot to mention tabletop yeah, trying to get into it but the groups now are.. "Unique" to say the least. And goddamn I overlooked silver as well goddamn, and to think I was considering swapping Potency with Protean for the meme claws. I guess my hypothetical would work. Either that or outsmart the fucker.
>>3846438
With unlucky enough dicerolls, you can die to anything.

>>3846458
The groups for vampire, or even WoD stuff in general were always sort of "unique", unless it's the kind of group that will just run anything

I just find the endings of this game so stupid

>>3846463
Care to elaborate on that?

>>3845836
it really is amazing in a trainwreck kind of way

at first they had that teaser with the Pier and Giant Wheel (member that?)
then they had that "tender" app
then it was revealed it was about vamps picking up possible choices for an Embrace

...

then it was a 640x480 deepfriend compressed audio of vomit

>>3842744
it would have been funny if the WW would just reconsider fighting you if you were to use a few select tactics like celerity + emptying max ammo for 1 gun or emptying your balls by casting blood strike 50 times

>Werewolf realizes you are too stupid to the the culprit
>the real one is getting away
>he just kinda leaves, showing you the finger

>>3846458
I implore you, do not get involved in cross-splat fuckery if you've not run this shit before. If you want a Griffith Park sequence, there's stats for "Lupines" in the back of most core books.

if you absolutely must, silver is way better than protean claws for one simple reason. Werewolves can soak Aggravated, except for Silver. Meaning they'll be able to resist damage from your Protean, but silver blows clean through their resistance.

>>3845994
>The point being that in movies old vampire = powerful vampire. Here it's more experienced vampire of lower gen = somewhat stronger than equally experienced vampire of higher gen.
Only in 5th edition is this true and should be treated as a retcon that is not applicable to Bloodlines.

Originally 7th gens and lower have exclusive access to 6+ dot powers which in tabletop rules is demi-god or higher levels in scope and ability. We are talking "the GM describes how fucked you are and you only get to do anything about it because the GM let you"-tier. No matter what a newer gen does, no matter how old, they will never ever achive that level of power.

>>3846471
perhaps silly question but why does silver in this setting affect ww but not vampires? if you go with the whole "unclean creature", it should be even worse for vampires, plus in the WoD setting the ww are "gaia-blessed" so wouldn't they be clean?
asking for official answer, if any, or your opinion

>>3846433
You should ask the anon with the v1.2 data to check if Burrowing Beetles were the only exception in unmodded game too. Because in UP they were at least for a while. Can't remember if only in plus or in both.

>>3846470
>>he just kinda leaves
Not possible. Muh Wyrm, muh Gaia, muh awoo instead of brains.

>>3846473
Yes, I simplified because he already misunderstands it. 6 itself isn't completely busted usually but something closer to 8 and it's LOL really.

>>3846470
>emptying your balls by casting blood strike 50 times
kek, I can picture a PC with shredded clothes that also has fucked up arms doing this

>>3846474
>perhaps silly question but why does silver in this setting affect ww but not vampires?
God (or angels) cursed Caine to be harmed by sunlight and fire. That's the inherent vampiric weakness. The clan banes come from Caine cursing the third generation. He didn't curse any clan to be vulnerable to silver, though he could always rectify that whenever he wanted.

Since some people apparently know some of this shit here, is that shark monster you fight in chinatown a shifter like a werewolf or was it just something else entirely?

>>3846474
Because Vampire was written before Werewolf, and they weren't going to give vampires extra weaknesses in-post in a game that you should not be obligated to buy to pay Vampire.

Also don't consider what werewolves claim about vampires to be objective fact.

also don't run cross-splat it sucks

>>3846470
Damsel would've killed that werewolf by giving him a brain aneurysm after listening to her dumbshit opinions.

>>3846485
>God (or angels)
God. Loyalists just do whatever God wants them to.

>>3846489
The former. His kind is called Rokea.

>>3846493
So really you can kill two werewolves. Or at least I'm assuming the alternate animal ones are considered about as strong

>>3846499
Zygaena is very obviously a wereshark. Most Rokea are weresharks.

>>3846471
Silver it is then, the suggested setting I was invited to was for a 21st century heavy political intrigue/cold-war territory (location undecided) between the three factions with Garou involved, specifically the Silver Pack apparently, which is an odd choice.

So far most people want to go full-on Toreador/Ventrue dicksucking, generations semi-optional, my aim was to make a 6th gen or even a Methuselah Caitiff (5th gen, and tame compared to the other shit people came up with so far) literally straight out from torpor, broken memories and zero understanding of the modern world, Celerity/Potency/Fortitiude warrior-knight right out of the 11th century fresh from the Cainite Heresy slaughter and subsequent Crusade shenanigans, completely out of his element and vulnerable to the political intrigue of the modern setting.
>Metafag
For straight combat sure, but it's a fish out of water scenario, fun to play those. Apparently they don't want Thin-Blood players (my first pick) for this, which is a weird choice but whatever.

>>3846499
Their strength comes from shared immortality which the wereshark lacks in the fight. If he isn't a Rokea then he may be a Same-Bito. FYI any patch that gives the Werewolf a working healthbar is going against that immortality bit.

>>3846543
Rokea are at least as dangerous in their war form as Garou. The only thing that might possibly be worse is their ancient terror from the deep form because really big sharks in water are more dangerous than really big wolves on land. Also unlike Garou they can just change into their "normal" shark form and regenerate because salt water.

>>3846546
>Rokea are at least as dangerous in their war form as Garou.
They are weaker then the werecoyotes who have trouble with adult rottweilers while on land. Only reason the fight isn't harder is because the devs didn't decide to give them Rage just like the werewolf fight.

>>3846474
I always thought silver was supposed to have a moon connection, but I probably pulled that out of my ass

>>3846474
Do you know why coins have ridges around the edges?

>>3846548
What? Why? How can any shapeshifter in war form be weaker than a normal dog? Rokea have like half of the first three levels of gifts be equivalents of +1 level Garou gifts.

>>3846583
They get a dexterity nerf (worse then it sounds as dex is your turn initiative modifier) in Crinos while on land (and a -1 strength nerf) and this includes not having their Gnosis (their mana stat) recover outside salt water and they cannot even start to heal their wounds unless you game the system like one Anon suggests. In addition to this, they have a low frenzy which is a bad thing because they don't have the Rage points to back it up and wind up being forced to play stupid.
Finally everything other breeds get they are taxed for basic shit.

All in all the moment that guy decided to fight in a warehouse without a water pool or something he was SoL. Granted the girl has a very high chance of dieing without going sanic fast like the Toreader.

This is the easiest rpg ive ever played with like 2 total playthroughs available. What do you retarded virgin losers actually have to discuss about it

>>3846515
Honestly Anon this game is raising a lot of red flags for me personally, but eh, give it a try, not everyone has the same tastes.

Just keep in mind that if the ST really wants you to lose, you will lose. You can build a good Werewolf killer, but they'll just throw more Werewolves at you, or give them Gifts (their equivalent of disciplines, work very different) that hard counter what you're doing. In a 1v1, if you have a big enough gun with silver bullets or a silver melee weapon with enough strength, you can semi-reliably one-shot a werewolf, but they do usually run in packs so you want to be able to have good dodge to avoid getting mauled and failing that, some Fortitude to soak their aggravated claws. Dex > Strength, but strength isn't bad per se if you can get it. Oh and always buy celerity if you can because it's busted even in V20 when they tried to nerf it.

>>3846625
There is probably no TTRPG in existence where haste isn't busted.

>>3846473
>Only in 5th edition is this true
Do 7th gen vamps not get 6th tier Disciplines anymore or what? I've read that really old vamps in the new edition have some mysterious force urging them to fuck off to Middle East as a way to give shitters more breathing room.

>>3846557
I always thought it was because silver was supposed to be a "holy" metal so it's effective against unholy creatures, and that's also why vampires can't see their reflections in mirrors because they used to be made with silver

>>3846661
Yeah but that's not how it works in WoD. Werewolves are hurt by silver because it's associated with the moon. Vampires aren't because it wasn't in the list of things God cursed Caine with. Vampires can see themselves in mirrors unless they're Lasombra.

>>3846661
That's for real world. Anon was talking about WoD setting, where werepeople are mystical Gaia protectors.

>>3846661
>vampires can't see their reflections in mirrors
It’s because a certain ethno-religious group whom you’re not allowed to criticize is genetically incapable of self-reflection.

>>3846475
Wolf has full resist to everything in 1.2. You can try hitting him with it but he just shrugs it off.

>>3846694
There's no Burrowing Beetle there. That block you posted again is checked after the hit strata thing.
In my UP it deals 2% health damage to those with the Boss flag set but nothing to those with strata of 7. So again it depends on how it works specifically considering some characters match two Affects_Table entries.

>>3846697
>There's no Burrowing Beetle there.
Right, I started thinking of Tremere's Blood Strike for some reason because they're almost the same thing. In 1.2 it says 2% for bosses as well with Burrowing Beetle but the wolf is just immune to everything and only the plus patch changed that.

>>3846701
>In 1.2 it says 2% for bosses as well with Blood Strike but the wolf is just immune to everything and only the plus patch changed that.
As I've mentioned before, from what I understand the objects with the Boss filter are generally not used at least in v1.2, so what really matters is the Hit_Strata_7 object. I expect it to have
>"InheritFrom" "Hit_Supernatural_NoEffect"
just like in older versions of UP.
Something tells me you still think there is some hidden variable somewhere that makes it "just immune".

>>3845845
>all Disciplines are basically room-clearing AOE attacks of various duration, except Lasombra's which seems to just make the enemies spooked unless the effect is permanent (pay to play clan, everyone)
>Brujah's super strength looks like fucking telekinesis
>"Member the first game that has nothing to do with this one except the title?" is almost cute, then again it's paid content instead of some unlockable bonus content for an already non-free game
Honestly, this game being a reality is fascinating, even if it's just some questionable spectacle show that has nothing to do with the empty promises of the publishers first announcing the game being in development.

>>3846705
I think they actually backtracked on some of the DLC stuff, but I don't see myself buying it either way

>>3846703
>from what I understand the objects with the Boss filter are generally not used at least in v1.2
It seems to be. For enemies not flagged as bosses the damage variance is 18-38% and it'll kill them all in 3-6 hits with the damage numbers changing. Ming is flagged as a boss, she has 1400 health and it does 28 damage to her every time which is 2%.

>Something tells me you still think there is some hidden variable somewhere that makes it "just immune".
No, I wasn't saying that at all and was saying he is "just immune" to everything due to hit_strata_7.

There are separate flags in Hammer for enabling boss fights and to "process this NPC as a monster" and adjust the Perception stat, and then various other flags that have unknown uses though.

>>3846412
it's not about what i expected, it's about using spoiler tags purely to try to come across as a quirky """embarrased""" attention seeking faggot

>>3846717
>Ming
Actually a great example. Since she only takes 2% of damage it confirms my theory that only the first match counts and then lookup and processing ends there. So it's either Hit_Strata_6 or Hit_Boss for her. And since only the former has knockback from Burrowing Beetle, unless this was added by wesp, it should be easy enough to test which gets applied to her. I suspect that it's not the Hit_Boss one. That it's never used in practice because everything that has Boss set gets some Hit_Strata instead because they are above in some array or list due to being read earlier from the file.

Sorry for reading too much into that post.

>>3846706
Yeah the trailer made sure to emphasize Lasombra and Toreador were "BASE GAME CONTENT" this time lmao but it never should've been an issue in the first place.

>>3846719
You seem angry over something small, is it that time of the month for you?

>>3846725
>So it's either Hit_Strata_6 or Hit_Boss for her.
Hit_strata seems to take priority. I tested it on the Chang brothers, they're marked as a boss but have hit_strata_5 which sets Burrowing Beetle to 4% damage. They have 276 health and receive 11 damage per hit which is 4%.

>That it's never used in practice because everything that has Boss set gets some Hit_Strata instead because they are above in some array or list due to being read earlier from the file.
That seems possible since hit_strata took priority over the boss flag for the Changs. Or maybe it's just used for various other things or to allow for more customization when desired. I tried altering/deleting the disciplinestrata and boss flags in the NPC files and it didn't seem to do anything, I'm not sure why. I know you can edit the boss health there so the files are being used for something.

Something I just realized though is that the disciplinetgt file for Presence is limited to only its stun effect. It doesn't have anything at all about the stat debuff anywhere. So even if it was applying to the boss flag correctly it would still be only for the stun effect. The werewolf can still be slowed by Celerity so hit_strata_7 doesn't make it completely immune to everything, just anything targeted which is what I guess the tgt stands for in those files. I think disciplinetgt_003.txt is only for the stun effect which is targeted because it affects enemies differently depending on what they are and with random chance at times, but the debuff isn't considered a targeted effect so it's not in there and will still be applying to everything in its radius including bosses. That's why there aren't files there for Fortitude, Celerity, etc. and only four files for the Disciplines with targeted effects.

>Sorry for reading too much into that post.
np

>>3846766
>I tried altering/deleting the disciplinestrata and boss flags in the NPC files and it didn't seem to do anything, I'm not sure why. I know you can edit the boss health there so the files are being used for something.
I think I accidentally had the game running in the background while editing files so it wasn't saving properly lel

But I did some more testing. Gimble is normally not flagged as a boss and he can be stunned/killed with Dominate or Dementation. Flagging him as a boss makes both of those stop working on him completely. He doesn't have a hit_strata setting either but setting it to 5 after flagging him as a boss will let Dominate/Dementation 3 damage him but reduced without instakill like other bosses.

Trying Presence on him without a hit_strata setting and only flagging him as a boss still reduced his damage, but he didn't get the visual effect on his head, and it may not have reduced his attack speed. So disciplinetgt_003.txt is only for visual effects/stun/possibly attack speed. I don't seem to be able to get Presence to stun him though without him being flagged as a boss either even though Dominate/Dementation will stun him, so something is still affecting how that works somewhere.

It's funny how I picked up Bloodlines last week (for my 20+th replay) because of the Bloodlines 2 announcement, and in the end I probably won't even pirate Bloodlines 2.

So which patch version am I getting for the most reasonably vanilla experience?

>>3846650
5th gen took a page out of Requiem so now all vampires can eventually become 7th gen-tier with age.

>>3846896
For Requiem I always thought that had more to do with them trying to decouple from the importance of the metaplot with that. If every powerful vampire is one less degree of separation from Cain, it's obviously going to lead things in that direction. If every powerful vampire is just old that's a lot more open ended.
Combining the two seems kind of strange

>>3846859
standard mod patch

>>3846896
That's not true. Your generation is fixed in V5, but as you get older, your blood potency can increase, up to a limit determined by Generation.

Honestly it's not an awful middle ground, the issue is that the way V5 handles blood potency and what it does isn't very fun.

>>3846904
Cheers

>>3846766
>Changs
Another good example. They're strata 5 so well-protected but almost never immune to things. Also ChangBrosClaw has this for Description
>The one with the claws... and yes, the schlong.

>I know you can edit the boss health there so the files are being used for something.
I've used to mod the UP installation a bit way back then so many of the values definitely are used. I don't think there is a single unused file but some of the key-value pairs inside some of the objects might be unused. Probably very few as Attributes and Abilities are definitely used, Reactions are also definitely used (dispositions to PC's clan), Bach definitely uses Numina and so on. It's a nice system that allows for lots of customisation that has inheritance and is flexible enough. That Affects_Table either has bugged sorting or is used incorrectly (lacking prohibitive flags perhaps) was a surprise for me precisely due to how robust and well-designed the system is in general.

>Something I just realized though is that the disciplinetgt file for Presence is limited to only its stun effect. It doesn't have anything at all about the stat debuff anywhere.
It links to objects in a different file. Well, after the game reads everything from the files on startup they all end up in some objects accessible to the same functions anyway so the separation into files are just for programmers and game designers.
Look for TraitEffect objects, each has the value of "Effect" key linking to something defined in traiteffects000.txt.
>The werewolf can still be slowed by Celerity so hit_strata_7
Well, that's a technicality due to how the game implements speeding up the PC. Instead of actually speeding up the PC so that the player has trouble controlling him or her, it slows down the rest of the actors. If some of those actors also have Celerity their acting speed is either not touched or reduced to a lesser extent.

>>3846802
Yeah, but only because Gimble has no DisciplineStrata defined at all. It's null after getting parsed. If you give him DisciplineStrata of 0 his Boss flag will get ignored.

Remind me again, did obfuscate ever do something? Sneak is broken by itself and as I remember you couldn't do sneak attacks off of obfuscate by itself

>>3847089
With 5 points in obfuscate you can basically ignore everything but bosses, and you don't have to do it crouched. You can almost do that with 4, but I think there's some limitations that causes it to fuck up sometimes. Sneak is really all you need anywhere dark though. It's kind of amazing what you can get away with while having barely any investment in it when you're somewhere with the lights turned off.
I think if you aren't could do put enough points into obfuscate to be able to run around it's probably worse than just putting that exp towards sneak most of the time, but there's probably a handful of crowded halls or whatever it would still save you time with even with the 1 dot version

>>3847097
>I think if you aren't could do put enough points into obfuscate to be able to run around
*I think if you aren't going to put enough points into obfuscate to be able to run around
I apparently get fucking dyslexic when I should be sleeping

>>3846900
Requiem solved the problem by simply giving all the elders old people dimensia when they go into Torpor for too long.

>>3847097
Wasn't it the case that opening doors or chests completely screwed you over? What I remember was going for a stealth build and never needing to use Obfuscate since at some point no amount of light could make you visible

>>3847097
The stealth skill doesn't make any sense, I had the same amount of points in it during the warehouse quest and during the fat larry quest and in the former I couldn't sneak past the humans unless I made at least 4 of them go to sleep and die, in the parking lot I was literally "sneaking" right in front of the guards as they had a clear line on sight on me from a distance.

I noticed that there must have been a new update in the UAP recently for the warehouse. I remember that when I did the warehouse sneakily years ago, I got still ambushed by Sabbat. Now, if you plant the explosive without being seen, there are no angry Sabbat vampires, even if you start killing all the humans after you plant the bomb. Or at least I assume that's why there were no vampires.

>>3847137
Yeah you can't interact with any objects until you get Obfuscate 5 or it breaks.

>>3847168
>Now, if you plant the explosive without being seen, there are no angry Sabbat vampires
Did you go back out through the big door near the traintracks? If you stay sneaky and leave that way you avoid the vampires.

Why is there so incredibly little Bloodlines porn? Whenever I replay the game and I get to Jeanette or Damsel, I have to use the same ~3-5 pictures/animations. It's so sad.

>>3847246
It is a common pattern in media I noticed. The more sexualized and pornographic something is while not being porn the less porn will be made of it.

>>3847246
Whose the bigger pump n dump material? Jeanette or Damsel? Jeanette has a publicly known body count (you can check all the monstrosities she fucked on her Lenovo Thinkpad) but I bet Damsel fucked even more when she was a N**ge*.

>>3847246
R34 became popular fairly recently. I would say that making internet porn out of games and such became a thing not that long ago, maybe 7 years or so?

>>3847284
I remember looking at ff6/ff7 hentai on dialup in the mid-late 90s. Still remember a couple pics of Celes and Aeris in particular.

>>3847284
We have been making porn of female characters for thousands of years.

>>3847255
>but I bet Damsel fucked even more when she was a N**ge*.
wut

>>3847302
Ningen

>>3847294
That's art, not porn.
>inb4 so is hentai
>>3847286
There is also a bit of Fall-from-Grace but only a tiny amount. Now compare it to the recent stuff, like nuTifa, nuCammy White, nuSamus. A lot of it blew up when normal porn became so prevalent that it was boring and graphics (along with technology) allowed for some good non-pixelated boobs.

>>3815563
are blacks with vampirism committing whiteface?

>>3847319
No because *face is power + prejudice, so Black vampires cannot ever do whiteface.

Is there any punishment for being mean to LaCroix after you get the nice apartment after the Elizabeth Dane quest? Do Nosferatu and/or Tremere also get the 125% duration for buffs artifact in their havens?

And why can I not sex Jeanette after I convinced her to kill her sister? I sexed her before the gallery quest already once, but ever since her questline ended, I can't even talk to her. There's no interaction prompt available. I remember having this bug >10 years ago, and it's still there...

Also, I didn't give her the amulet I was supposed to get for Therese (you can still sex Jeanette just by picking all the pink options, you don't have to give her nothing), but then I never actually got an opportunity to give the ghost amulet to Therese. Do you need to choose her as the surviving personality? Because the quest is now eternally stuck in my quest log.

>>3847384
>Is there any punishment for being mean to LaCroix after you get the nice apartment after the Elizabeth Dane quest?
Not really. There are a couple instances where you can get some extra money out of him that you might miss.

>Do Nosferatu and/or Tremere also get the 125% duration for buffs artifact in their havens?
The Tremere get a 40% Thaumaturgy boosting occult item, Nosferatu don't get anything. If you're talking about the Galdjum, then normally you find that in the sewers before you reach Gary. The plus patch puts it into the apartment and makes it unavailable to the Tremere and Nosferatu.

>I can't even talk to her.
Yeah that sounds like a bug.

>but then I never actually got an opportunity to give the ghost amulet to Therese.
That's odd. You're supposed to give it to her after you slash the paintings and before the showdown, and I don't think you have an option to not do so. Sounds like it could be another bug?

>>3847390
>That's odd. You're supposed to give it to her after you slash the paintings and before the showdown
Yeah I thought so, I remember doing that lots of times. I am playing the latest UAP with the plus patch, hence why I got the Gladjum from the Skyline Apartment.

The Jeanette bug though, definitely something that's been there for over a decade, UAP 7~9 maybe, and still now...

>>3803261
>whenever you call him out on his hypocrisy.
Reminder that Jack killed dozens of innocent humans on the Elizabeth Dane just for an epic le joke. And he tells you not to kill humans because muh humanity.

>>3818211
I thought this was gonna be some gay shit like "save him by befriending/romancing him/speaking into his soul".

>>3847405
I don't think that's really hypocritical. When you're coming into the supernatural world like that it's probably pretty easy to go off the deep end if you suddenly start killing innocent people, but Jack is just some pirate hobo that has never given a shit and has been doing it forever.
Jack doesn't say it because of some higher moral calling, but because it will keep you from going full beast retard

>>3818211
No, either the blast gets you (enough C4 to fireball the whole penthouse) or the drop from the height will.