Thread 3804025

I don’t even mind the woke shit ,as a centrist fag
but can’t they at least do it well? Why is the black paladin talking like a black city girl in google ad? And the characters that do have some flavor still feel super generic and cliche. couldn’t they have done a second pass to make things feel more authentic?

And seriously, can’t these writers take the story seriously? All the characters feel like a bunch of people playing DnD, not like real people who’ve witnessed chaos, slaughter, and an actual deity of plague. Shouldn’t they be terrified or something?

Man, fuck this shit, I just hope AI can do a better job by 2030.
Also not every single person has to be verbose just for the sake of it

Is rouge trader any better?

>>3804025 (OP)
>I do not mind woke shit but my big specific complaint is about the black character
Sure.
Try Vermillion Trader instead

>>3804027
Yeah
She should've sounded a lot more authoritative and old timey

>>3804030
Yeah, some thous and 'los would elevate the writings fershizzle.

I dunno, I liked the companion writing in that game just fine. It's not stellar or anything, but it's neither overly verbose nor as "twitter playing D&D" as BG3 is. What is your gold standard for RPG writing, out of curiosity?

>Why is the black paladin talking like a black city girl in google ad?
She is Paizo's (the license holders to Pathfinder) OC, she's a street urchin who became a paladin by accident or something. I also found her fine, but if you didn't like her writing keep in mind that it was likely heavily curated by Paizo, it's not just the devs.

>>3804025 (OP)
Pathfinder doesn't do old timey. You'll take your modern slang and you'll be happy about it. Nor does it do anyone but select NPCs shitting themselves in fear or even showing much fear at all. Even in their fucking horror-themed adventures.

Who cares? RPGs with good writing don't exist.

What IS unforgivable with Owlcat is that they also suck at pacing, encounter design, environment design, quest design etc.

>>3804025 (OP)
According to musk we will get a good ai game in 400 days latest

Golarian isn't a medieval fantasy, it takes place in a post-apocalyptic future. You can come across the ruins and artifacts of the old far more advanced civilization. No one forgot how to speak.

>>3804039
>excited to play WotR at launch, going into it blind
>roll up a paladin of Iomedae, naturally
>it’s crusading time, gonna kill six gorillion demons
>encounter my first fellow paladin
>introduce myself as a crusader of Iomedae
>”YOU’RE MY KIND OF CRAZY!”
>immersion ruined

>>3804772
Mfw I learned she's the official paizo paladin

>>3804025 (OP)
>centrist
No such thing
>fag
That does exist
>why writing bad
They appease their crowd with proper propaganda, aka the current thing. Rainbows, fags, refugees, aso

>>3804025 (OP)
Rogue Trader characters are better, writing can’t really fuck around 40k years into a hellish future instead of generic medieval land.

>>3804817
Rogue Trader sucks and so does 40k
>everyone is evil, retarded or an evil retard
Wow, such good writing

>>3804025 (OP)
>Why's the writing so bad in this game

Because of Paizo's unironical trannies and radfems forcing woke shit, which then nobody really wants to write because it got forced on them. Thus writers shit out corporate forced content asap, so they can focus on stuff they actually want to write (like Ember for example). It's really obvious which characters were designed by Owlcat, and which were forced by Paizo's corpo-troons.

>>3804784
Your face when? But you didn't post a face.

>>3804965
For some reason I am unable to attach files. I just get an connection error message.

>>3804898
Really? Paizo denies meddling. Which ones do you think are installed by paizo? I don't think k ember is a good character at all on the contrary, really.

>>3804025 (OP)
I thought it was fine. Actually less degenerate and annoying than the idiot BG3 companions.

>>3805006
It's massive cope on that anon's part. Krymov has talked about how he wanted to put a trans dwarf into Kingmaker but it got cut. He described writing the gay romance in Wrath as a "healing vacation" after he was ordered to write the swarm path. Russian game devs are as lib/left as any other country's.

>>3805037
Ye, looks like that. Mentally ill or so.
Healing vacation? For gay romance. Lol.
For 10k you could buy a party time including ttrpg. Imagine the fun, kek.

>>3804381
Musk will be either dead from drug overdose or deported back to Africa before we get a playable AI game, let alone a good one.

>>3805239
Maybe, but I'm certain that his work on grok is advancing ai. He won't get deported, doj needs space x. If the us steals it, it will loose even more allies. Musk won't die soon, rich people tend to get old.

>>3804025 (OP)
I'm replaying the game to finally try and finish it (again), and most of the companions really are not that bad. Ember is amazing, Regill is exactly the way you'd expect him to be, Camelia is obviously evil but fun and the game gives you enough wiggle room to disregard that and play dumb, Ulric is good to have an old timer around, Wenduag is a subservient slug and needs to be pressed, Arue is your anime waifu with dark past, Daeran can be grating but nothing too bad and he makes up for it with his usefullness, Seelah is inoffensive and Owlcat had to include her due to her being a representative character, Woljif has an interesting concept and is a good thief example, Nenio is okay cause she doesn't talk that much and some jokes with her are actually okay. Now, Lann would be fine too if he didn't go into a minute and a half voiced self-deprecating or lambasting monologue at the worst possible moment when the game tries to be dramatic. He has some right ideas, but I get tired of his overly lengthy quips. And Sosiel is the example of a writer's pet character. Your main character can be overly affectionate with him from the get go and the lines are just too sacharine for my taste. It makes you not want to pick good lines talking to him as a good character. And also there is a Greybore.

So I think the vast majority of companions are good to fine, while I take offence with a couple of them.

>>3805037
>after he was ordered to write the swarm path
I think the single most cringe-inducing part of the dev interviews and whatever was every single writer involved in the swarm path going out of their way to exaggerate how bad it was, like they were mentally broken by writing some low-tier edgy shit
A random tabletop rulebook from the 90s and early 2000s probably has them beaten on the edge/grossout factor in a single sidebar, some of them having pages upon pages of hilariously over-the-top shit, and they're out there whinging about lazily writing the path that actively cuts out content that needs writing for

>>3804025 (OP)
>faggotfinder
lol

Owlcat's writing to me is like listening to a 13 year old kid excitedly prattle about his OCs and worlds he made up. It may be generic, overly verbose for no reason, a little cringe, but I can't hate it because I know there's heart behind it all.

>>3804025 (OP)
I picked it up again recently, trying to force myself to go beyond Act 1 for the third time.
This game has the worst companions in the genre, they are post-DA2 Bioware level.

>>3804381
will it be developed on Mars, big man?

>>3805414
a pretty good metaphor
I just smile nod my head a couple of times to not break their heart and afterward just move on and enjoy things that aren't amateurish fanfics by a 13 yo

>>3805414
Do 13yo nowadays add modern politics and gender "issues" to their politically correct OCs?

>>3805749
yeah, and you'll play it with your brain chip too

>>3804025 (OP)
I thought it was ok.
Was nice to see angels written straight and not with some faggy twist.
was bummed when the Herald of Iomedae died

WOTR does a great service in that you can always know who has terrible taste from the praise they lavish on it despite the terrible quality.

>>3805856
Anon... you know you can save him, right...?

>>3805874
no I did not.
But that would required a new playthru...

>>3805749
From New Delhi, actually. Superpower in 400 days, saar!

>>3805841
Probably, yes

>>3805852
AFAIK he made progress there, too. I just doubt we will overcome the problem of open skull anytime soon.

>>3805874
I didn't know
>>3805879
This... I'd rather beat km, but neither game is worth a replay. The fights are very samey, especially wotr.

>>3805976
I mean I think the bigger problem by far with Neuralink is that for some reason he insists the final product HAS to be two-way (as it's necessary to 'fix insomnia and dementia' and whatnot), which is a terrible idea on just about every level.

>>3804025 (OP)
Wrath is adapted from the tabletop campaign that has even worse writing than the Owlcat game. In tabletop, Anevia is extremely in your face about being a troon and Iomedae is even more arrogant, obnoxious and insufferable. Wrath’s story is terribly written because the source material is dogshit to begin with. You can vomit in an intricate container but vomit is still going to be vomit.

>>3806434
>Iomedae is even more arrogant, obnoxious and insufferable
Iirc she yanks the party into her realm and asks them a bunch of morality questions which if you answer not exactly as intended by the writer she blasts the whole party with the "WRONG" buzzer for 20d6 lethal sonic damage. That whole AP was a fucking mess and Owlcat did a pretty noteworthy job in making it much less ass.

>>3806440
>she yanks the party into her realm and asks them a bunch of morality questions which if you answer not exactly as intended by the writer she blasts the whole party with the "WRONG" buzzer for 20d6 lethal sonic damage
Um hello based department

>>3806440
I don’t understand how someone could approach these modern tabletop modules without instantly becoming a murderhobo due to pure rage at how terribly written everything is.

>>3806449
> [Evil] I don't like you. Die!
Owlcat had a genius moment making evil options awful to make you not kill everybody.

>>3806449
>modern tabletop
Well here's your issue right there chief

>>3806362
>terrible idea on just about every level.
Well, it's about control, isn't it? Musk isn't a man that brings power to the people.

>>3806486
have you tried not playing dnd?
i.e. dnd-styled heroic fantasy
there are plenty of fantasy ttrpgs of varying darkness and grittiness that have absolutely non of that fagginess
they aren't exactly mainstream but they aren't fringe by any regard

>>3806559
>Musk isn't a man
you could have stop there anon

>>3806571
>he's still our very best bet, albeit a very bad one.
Should've, really.

>>3805874
>>3806356
how do we save him anon?

>>3806665
Knowing owlkeks you need an item that's in the room before. When did quests stopped to be intertwined? Rather few quests that tie in into the main quest and each other than checklist quests. Am I the only one seeing it like that?

>>3806665
You need to earn his trust while you can, then find his heart in the prison before you face him. It's obvious enough from there. Any route can do it (though the trust part makes it difficult for most of them) but Angel in particular is the only one that can truly restore him to full glory afterwards.

>>3806672
I mean you're only half right, but also only half wrong (and it's not quite right in the room before)

>>3806677
Breddy gudd for a wild guess. It's really a shame we don't get a pf/3.5e game.
I'm all for it that someone makes a solid frame for the rule work and sells the editor. The way I see it, could even be dual rules or more, so that people make their own adventures. Nwn1 survived for more than 20 years, imagine it would have bg3 graphics.

>>3804898
This, Ember is actually great.
They did a lot toward making others playable as well because the Paizo versions of characters like Wenduag are as ugly and man hating dyke coded as possible.
Paizo is rabid leftoid LGBTQ D&D even more than WoTC leans in 2025 which is no small feat.
They banned depictions of slavery, it's got a lesbian triumvirate as goddesses, queens and female barbarian chiefs abound.

Owlcat are geniuses for making that political loaf of cunt yeast Spam in a can playable at all.
>>3806434
See, more proof.

>>3806682
I've read like 10 ttrpg modules. They are really bad. Like bad high schon fan fic bad. Not surprising, really. No one talented enough will waste his time writing these modules.

>>3806676
I was an Angel and was baffled when he felt betrayed (I think it was because he said I used the Sword when I wasn't actually Chosen of Iomedae or something; but forgave me because he saw I was a noble Neutral Good character but then died (if he's negging me for worshiping Christ over Iomedae than that's his problem)).
It was all confusing. I still think I did the right thing as evidence that I didn't save scum back his favor.

>>3806702
>didn't save scum
Always the right thing

Picked up this game during the summer sale. Most of the good characters are so insufferable that that the only way I'll make it through the game without an hero'ing is by going demon path.

Man I'm so glad I have "shit taste" enough to just enjoy the game without having to avoid or kill half the companions just for a shred of enjoyment
Why even bother if you're just gonna seethe

>>3804025 (OP)
It's because of the verbosity in each character's speech. It's written from a writer's perspective of "writing dialogue", not actual conversation.

https://youtu.be/mGwnEggL5mE?list=PLN39y5i_H0FncbNDYPUtIjJsMATbS4R5f&t=1525

>>3804025 (OP)
>All the characters feel like a bunch of people playing DnD
And that's a good thing

>>3804039
>nor as "twitter playing D&D" as BG3 is
are you kidding me?
BG3 says "fuck" once and this board eats them alive, meanwhile WOTR characters talk like characters from A Goofy Movie and they get a pass??

>>3805037
>>3805387
I think if I showed these guys Hogg they would disintegrate in real time lol

>>3804025 (OP)
I just started playing it and there's definitely a lot of millenial/reddit writing. The black chick speaks in marvel jokes and the leader of the crusaders is some orc lesbian orc chick. The only good characters so far are the spider girl and that half elf chick. I hope I can ditch the crusaders and join demons soon

>>3804025 (OP)
>Why is the black paladin talking like a black city girl in google ad
Because she's a street urchin that became a paladin to redeem herself and carry on the legacy of a paladin that she inadvertently killed through apathy. Even then, you act as though she speaks in ebonics rather than just casual language. The closest thing she does is refer to herself as "Sister Seelah" on a few occasions while trying to be friendly.

Her entire thing and personal story is centered around her being inexperienced, impetuous, and naive, with her subsequently learning that there are times where she needs to harden up and simply smite the evil, times where she should slow down and examine situations in full, and times where she should show empathy instead of defaulting to LARPing as a Saturday morning cartoon hero.

>>3808304
Good news, Irabeth is a fuck-up and when (You) become the leader of the crusade you will be able to verbally (or physically if you're Demon) bash her into developing PTSD and retiring. I'm not sure if you can kill her, but I think you can imprison her. You can also kill her tranny gf on at least two occasions.

>>3808417
>or physically if you're Demon
Thank god I chose CE

>>3805037
>>3805387
He was weak. He couldn't go all the way with the Swarm path. So I had to.

>>3809632
Your contributions will always be respected... but I just wish there was at least a mod that fixed the path itself. Playing it and knowing how the writers half-assed it and then dared complain about even that much is just too aggravating. But considering I can't be bothered to do it myself due to how much it'd require I'm not about to ask, let alone expect, anyone else to do it.

>>3809632
do you think they made the heretic path so lame and bad in rogue trader to spite you specifically
like you did send the writer your comms so i could see them shafting chaotic evil monster bros as revenge

How's that big romance mod? I hear they even add some extra end game slides.
Actually, what is the name of the damn thing?

>>3809841
Oh yeah, and has anybody tried the Automatic Bonus Progression mod?
Sounds like something that would make the game a lot more fun in general, not having to worry about those basic numbers and being able to focus on extra, cooler equipment effects.
It also means less buffing I think.

>>3809810
I just don't think they're capable of writing very evil paths.
The writer I sent my commissions to did not work on Rogue Trader.

>>3809810
>to spite you specifically
No. I don't think I'm that important. I just don't think they're capable of writing very evil paths.
Besides, the writer I sent my commissions to didn't work on Rogue Trader.

>real time with pause ?
what about REAL time with Bill Maher?

>>3809632
Is there still a gallery or something, somewhere, of all your investments in the cause?

>>3804025 (OP)
Because they hired incompetent translators, obviously. Imagine if Dragon's Dogma 1 was done by californian danger hairs instead of the based black woman of ye olde English.

>>3804025 (OP)
>Why is the black paladin talking like a black city girl in google ad? And the characters that do have some flavor still feel super generic and cliche. couldn’t they have done a second pass to make things feel more authentic?
>And seriously, can’t these writers take the story seriously? All the characters feel like a bunch of people playing DnD, not like real people who’ve witnessed chaos, slaughter, and an actual deity of plague.
That's what you get when you hire Chris Avellone as your cultural advisor to make sure your game sells well to western millennials.

>>3811341
>yo man, the wind in blowing me (shit's so cash)
>the wolf gang is rolling
>these niggas hate fire, yo!

>>3804025 (OP)
what's weird is that the voice acting was surprisingly tolerable in kingmaker, but devolved into full cringe mode in wrath, despite the writing being about the same quality. i have to assume their old publisher handled voice directing

>>3811384
>>the wolf gang is rolling

>>3811341
This would not be appropriate for the setting see >>3804768
Paizo gave the released game their stamp of approval. This is what it is, not what you think it should be.

>>3804025 (OP)
I thought it was fine. The only letdown was that I only got to permakill Baphomet and Deskari, letting Nocticula get off scot free, thanks to railroad writing. Overall a solid adventure.

Yeah the game is strewn with gay archwizards and tranny rogues and black paladins but that's actually faithful to the source material (lol)

>>3804025 (OP)
Its so dry

>>3806682
>the Paizo versions of characters like Wenduag
The original Wenduag has no character because she's just a generic boss fight for you to kill in the first book
Which is a better role than such a poor attempt at a Viconia clone, if you ask me

>>3804025 (OP)
Sosiel is a black guy who doesn't talk like a black city boy. His romance isn't super dramatic but that's because romancing him isn't just exhausting therapy sessions. His personal story about recovering his brother from the horrors of war is not super unique in literature but it's also not really done often in video games, either.

But then there's the argument that your companions are not the main character. You are. And there's soooooo much going on in the game, you can't really have complicated, convoluted character drama every time you turn around. The player just can't keep up with all that. The companions' stories are meaningful and compelling but they're not full of twists and turns and wacky secrets. Because the story isn't about any of them. It's about all of you together as a group.

>>3804293
It's not much of an adventure if you cower hiding in a closet furtively peeking out at the horror. The story is about the people who aren't doing that. If you don't like interacting with horror, then why are you playing a horror game? If you do want to interact with horror... then you're a hypocrite for complaining about the story being about people who are willing to interact with horror.

>>3808409
Could you imagine if white people would slow down and examine situations or show empathy instead of just mindlessly smiting whatever looks black?

In fairness, it's not only white people, and it's not all white people.

But how much would you like to bet the OP is white?

>>3806665
If you don't know how to show compassion and courage when befriending an angel maybe you have a lot of work to do on yourself before you can save him, because it's not complicated in the game...

>>3815238
No I played correct.
It's the devs/writers that got the Angel wrong.

>>3815250
You played like yourself. Yes. We established that.

>>3815237
Judging by his writing, he's likely to be Slavic.

>>3815588
Are Slavs white? Sorry, I'm behind on the racism meta.

>>3815701
The Aryan homeland was in European Russia.

>>3815227
There's still too far too much lefty bullshit idpol (he's a gay male stereotype breaker look at how progressive we are!, a soft cleric who'd rather paint than wage war even though we sorta did a soft male cleric in the last game too) but they are less cursed and edgelord than BG3 for sure.

>I have a pact with a demon, a tadpole in my head, a stone eye, AND daddy issues woe is me

Holy shit pick one.

>>3815237
Imagine if the industry would have some empathy for their players and slow down and examine situations where they constantly retread muh racism and related idpol subjects of bigotry under every stone and turtle shell subtexts every single game, character, and plot point.
There was a genre called fantasy at one time that was never about that, and there are better examples out there that were never that repetitive.

In fairness, it usually is White people and not the Chosen Colored People of The Left themselves doing this weird amalgamation of imaginary white guilt and lack of religious motivation to fill some void in their life for which I really don't want to be roped into being their therapist every time I play a video game.

>>3815704
Lol no.

>>3815781
Look at a map, buckaroo.

Any tips how to build a warpriest? I want to go angel.
Everyone says they suck and that cleric crusaders, paladin or battle oracle is better. But I play paladins and clerics all the time and I don't like oracles.
What weapon should I get proficiency in?
Are druids any good?

>>3815839
Everyone is absolutely right about warpriests and the other classes you mentioned.

The drovier druid one can be pretty good if you want to go for a heavy summon build that would likely include druid CC and nukes.

Winter's child can also be very good for a summon build. I still intend to do an aeon version at some point when I'm in the mood for Wrath again. Something about ice magic and black hole spells would be pretty cool to me, and aeon abilities can work with summon pretty well, the one slight niche they have that every other path can't do better.

I don't believe any of the druid shapeshift stuff is worth a crap that I've ever seen but I don't like druids in general so I didn't get to the depths of their builds that include shifting.

Shifter classes are dedicated to it and they fall behind normal martials a lot of the time. Except Ulbrig, who has his own unique class with built in air pounce, and only after you load him up with all the dlc items that were designed for him too.

Shifters are still good enough to where you can have some fun with them. Demon path werewolf is still on my list.

>>3815839
One last comment about angel. You need to understand the difference in angel is merged spellbook class (cleric, oracle, druid) vs non merged (warpriest, paladin)

Angel is so powerful it overwhelms your class so whichever you pick you're really a merged Angel or Non-merged Angel in a way rather than your base class.
Merged is immensely more powerful than non-merged because you have these high level nukes the instant you merge books as the cast levels stack. Your progression gets easier from there as your actual class levels catch up.

It's why I prefer crusader and an archer crusader to boot just so I have something to do between ridiculously overpowered angel nukes which is shoot arrows and I have a lot of flexible buffbot slots for variety, more so than oracle (who has to pick a few spells on level up like a sorc).

Oracle/Angel is the most broken class in the game but I've favored clerics forever and I can make a crusader work better than most people's generic oracle from a guide.

>>3815701
Not if you ask any real white people Tbh

>>3815850
>>3815865
Thanks for writing all of this.
I like the idea of hybrid classes like warpriest but they always end up being outshined by the more focused ones. Especially in bigger parties where having a dedicated role is just better. And my char often feels redundant.

I will probably try a druid even through it's doesn't match the theme as much as a cleric. But it feels like I have been playing nothing but paladins or clerics and I am bit of tired of them and there will probably plenty of them in the game. But I am still undecided lol.

>>3815850
>Everyone is absolutely right about warpriests
Not that anon, and I get that the Warpriest is worse, but by how much?
Are their gimmicks of free quickening spells and having increased weapon die not worth anything?

>>3815883
Well non-merged as I said in the case of Angel (which isn't WP specific but any non-full divine spellbook class) is the thing that puts them behind the others.
The quickened spell thing, for me and many others, is that Owlcat PF is borderline unplayable without Bubble's buff mod.
This mod gives instant buffs unless you value the time left in your mortality so little as to watch them go off for an hour before combat every time, or worse, manually cast them, so that supercedes the warpriest quickened buff for me.

Thinking back I did rate one warpriest and that's an archer Cult Leader due to fitting perfectly into Harrim's RP and the party role I needed of Skill Monkey, but that was unique to KM/COTW maybe and I don't even think their good skill monkey package got brought into Wrath. Weapon die is ok but limited time basis buff iirc, available in better forms elsewhere etc.

If you want it for RP, or to play something actually more balanced and not broken like a full merge Angel, I respect both but for me if I play a non-merged class for RP Angel it tends to be Fire Kineticist with a flaming sword, some fireballs and fire wall in a heavy fighter gish type setup and completely different mechanics which is more fun.

I don't see warpriest as much different than Crusader thematically in the end but Crusader is better in every way and less repetitive in actual play through choice of fighting setups, buffs etc not to mention way more powerful.


One full merge class I forget about is Shaman, you can combine Shadow Shaman and make a pretty sick Archer Angel of Death build with more variety too for example (and Vital Strike abuse to boot for a great sniper/caster package).

>>3815895
>The quickened spell thing, for me and many others, is that Owlcat PF is borderline unplayable without Bubble's buff mod.
I only use that for long lasting buffs. Using it for stuff that lasts 1rnd/lvl or less feels too much like cheating.
The quickened spells (are all of them buffs?) is more for stuff like Divine Favor, I guess.
And yes, Crusader is definitely better in every way, my question is more about itself compared to the challenges of the game, rather than the other options you could take.

One run I tried soloing as a gestalt angel paladin+orcale and it was completely disgusting. Got bored and dropped in act 4.

>>3815881
I think the mistake you're making is in not understand the purpose of a hybrid class.

They are not outshined by more focused classes. They just don't outshine those focused classes in the area that focused class focuses in.

And they shouldn't. They're a hybrid class. They have a broader toolkit and the price is that they aren't the absolute best in some area that they're a hybrid of.

Warpriests are good hybrids between paladins and clerics. They don't have the raw spell progression of a cleric, and they don't have the raw martial prowess of a paladin. And that's ok.

In my opinion, the strength of a warpriest is in their versatility. They're fantastic as using divine scrolls for healing, replacing your need for a dedicated healer caster. They're fantastic at standing their ground while beating down a target they've tackled, so they can definitely replace clerics and oracles in that regard as a frontline tank who pumps heals.

For raw damage, I think sacred fist is very clearly the only good warpriest. They're also the best tanks in the game.

You can abuse enemy AI with summon shennanigans just like any divine caster. You dont' need max level spells to pop out a distraction (and that's all summons are good for in this game).

There's too much really to fit in a 4chan comment, but don't be afraid. In the optimization olympics there can only be one gold medal.

Maybe you'd be happier if you didn't compete against yourself, though. You'd be happy playing what you enjoy the process of doing more than you'd enjoy seeing the biggest damage number.

>>3816121
You know you're only supposed to break up paragraphs for readability, not every pair of sentences, right? It just looks bad.

>>3804025 (OP)
>>3804296
KODP had good writing but AFAIK their writers are pretty lefty.

>>3816121
I know what you mean and you are correct, I am just overthinking it and really indecisive mostly because the length of the game. I want to play something that is fun for me and doesn't feel like dead weight either. But as you said with angel mythic path I don't have to worry to much about it.

I am playing on core with slightly lower enemy dmg and stats but with higher enemy numbers and better enemy AI.

>>3816217
No one fucking cares about your literacy challenges, anon. Shut the fuck up.

>>3817237
In this particular video game, there's not very many deadweight builds. In particular, witch, wizard, sorcerer, skald, bloodrager and inquisitor are the deadweight classes. And you're not playing one of those, so don't worry about it. Those particular ones are deadweight because the arcane spell list is worthless garbage (it's 90% nukes in this game, and they're a waste of action economy to cast because a properly built Cleave melee will literally do five times the damage for free, it's sickening) and offensive spells don't even really work in this game due to illegal spell resistance scaling on enemies, more than half of enemy monsters are immune to Slumber, the ghetto Rage features of bloodrager and skald are even shittier than real barbies and inquisitor has always been fucking garbage and always will be because of how their spell list and class features don't synergize with their role.

>>3804027
The black character is done horribly though. She's not lawful at all, more likely chaotic good, and her personality doesn't fit her life or role in any way. Making her black doesn't fix that.

>>3804025 (OP)
>Is rouge trader any better?
It's great. I don't remember it having much woke bullshit at all, and the main love interest companion is absolutely lovely. But I did love WotR and Kingmaker too.

>>3804025 (OP)
woke shit

>>3816121
The "hybrid" of warpriest just falls flat for me since I can replicate every one of their interesting features better on a cleric, paladin, etc while keeping full spellcasting, better spellcasting, and/or full martial slots and bonus powers like on paladin.

Now that said, Hunters are actually a hybrid worth bringing with some unique pet features you can't get anywhere else. It doesn't hurt that pets are OP as hell in Owlcat's games but that's another can of worms.

>>3817779
The actual solution to the Warpriest is to nerf the FUCK out of Cleric's BAB and armor proficiencies. Which should have been done back in the late nineties when 3.0 was being developed.

>>3817749
It's OK when woke Russians do it.

>>3817849
BuT tHeN nOboDY woUlD PlAy A hEaLer.
Was the idea, kind of.
I'm okay with the Cleric having half bab armor domains and channel energy/turn undead.
The real deal is them having access to not only full casting, but also having access to their whole spell list from the get go.
See Cloistered Clerics in 3.5e.
If the class worked more like domain priests in D&D 2e, where their spell list is a lot more constrained and thematic, that would have come out a lot better I think.
Not that I'm complaining, I get to nerf my TTRPG Cleric with some prestige classes I think are cool without feeling weak, but it is definitely a big design fuck up even before the madness of 3.5e splats became a thing.

>>3817894
>cleric
>healer
U wot

>>3817903
I know.
But as far as I can tell, that's why they over-corrected so hard going from D&D 2e to 3e.
They gave Clerics and Druids (the two "priest" classes) so much power from the get go seemingly because nobody wanted to play "the healers" back in the day or something like that.
At least that's my impression reading old discussions and stuff.
My TTRPG Cleric is basically a divine barbarian. He grabs his sword, pops his +7 AB Law Devotion, and goes to town on enemies with Power Attack.
So yeah, not much of a healer, although being able to pop 2 daily Heal Spells is crazy useful.

>>3817906
D&D as a system just really does not lend itself to healing. At most you'll want emergency heals to prevent death, which can be done with a potion or whatever.

>>3804025 (OP)
The verbosity is killing me. It's like every NPC just monologues at me.

>hey how did you end up in this burning building
>well you see, it all started 130 years ago, when king Wooblegook (link to popup explanation) set out to create a dish called butterbutt (link to popup explanation)
>continue
>continue
>continue
>btw I'm gay and my childhood was grimdark, let me tell you about it
>continue
>continue
>So that's why I am in this burning building, hurry, we need to get out of here before the roof collapses! If the roof falls down, it will crush us, or block our exit! And if the exit is blocked, we will be trapped in a burning building! The rising temperature might cause our death!
>Demon appears. Demon: "Haha, you are trapped! You will now die!"
>NPC: "I know this demon! It made me poop my pants once!"
>Demon: "Haha! Haha!"
>Demon disappears

Then I have to kill 5 groups of enemies to walk out the building. Being a shifter mammoth lich is in theory super fun but in practice is just tedious and unengaging.

>>3818441
Its pain, in pillars you could skip shitty blocks od text spewed out of random NPCs
In this game you need to go trought pages after pages of unnecessary filler

>>3818443
Ye. And if you skip what is skippable or just click through, you end up with 0 investment in the plot or characters. I don't have problems reading a lot, but the writing just feels so second hand.

>>3817894
>>3817906
Yes. It's an extremely thoroughly documented historical fact. Why does it persist despite the glaring effects on mechanical balance? Well.... Now you aren't asking about game design, you're asking about sociological phenomena involving sacred cows, group think and inertia of traditions.

Happily, it's a tabletop game. So I can change it however I want when I'm running the game.

>>3818683
>muh balance
You're part of the problem.

>>3818927
Is it slightly hypocritical? Maybe. But it's an acceptable price to prevent munchkinry and encourage player character diversity.

>>3818927
No, you are.

>>3804817
>psychic black chick having a breakdown from being tormented by a demon
>gun nun asks me if she should take the shot
>agree
>she shoots the black chick instead of the demon
I love this game so much

>>3819467
Solomorne being bisexual is a godsend. Though his romance makes more sense with a male Rogue Trader, given that he's working through some toxic masculinity and PTSD issues. But still, it's nice to finally have a male romance with a libido and willing to show off his masculinity. Heinrix is so fucking frigid and of course Marazhai isn't actually a romance (or sexual attraction) he's just literally addicted to sensation which literally is what keeps him alive.

Although Heinrix's romance feels psychologically realistic and reasonable (given how old he actually is and his experiences / training as an inquisitor), Solomorne's feels more natural and intimate because he expresses his feelings and even when he's confused about what he's feeling or what he wants. He's an actual human man with weaknesses and faults, rather than a stoic statue who's always in control of himself.

The ease of that first lay and subsequent lays makes a lot more sense later into his romance, though I admit it did feel a bit jarring that he would just be like "ahhhhh yeah we're covered in filth and gore after a day long battle to take a ship, let's fuck and then shower!" His openness about being man with a sexual drive is very refreshing compared to men in RPGs these last twenty years. Fuck knows Heinrix literally requires a complete breakdown of his psychic body control powers before he can get it up...

>>3819477
>given that he's working through some toxic masculinity
Stop projecting your politics onto the game

>>3819478
It's not politics. His story is very explicit about how he's grappling with negative consequences of pressures to always be strong and perfect and never show any weaknesses or personal desires. Like. That's the entire POINT of his story.
The term "toxic masculinity" is a technical term with a specific meaning.

I'm sorry that your miseducation from teenage YouTubers has conditioned you get triggered by hearing the term just because you don't actually know what it fucking means.

>>3819480
You don't get to attach such a qualifier to a group of people and pretend it's not political or ideological. The concept having any relevance in academia does not make it more valid; it makes academia less valid.

>>3819477
Why are you talking about masculinity being toxic? You are gay. You are the toxic male with a lack of masculinity.

>>3819499
so what would be the politically correct term for the concept? given that the current term is so triggering to a specific group of people.

>>3819500
I wasn't talking about masculinity being toxic. I was talking about toxic masculinity being toxic.

Fake chocolate isn't chocolate. That's why it's called fake chocolate.

Toxic masculinity isn't masculinity, and it poisons the person who internalizes it. That's why it's called toxic masculinity. Instead of just masculinity.

Practice your reading comprehension, little boy. It's not manly or attractive to be illiterate like that.

>>3819499
What was the qualifier attached to a group of people? And where was there a qualifier attached to a group of people? It sounds like you don't know what was actually being said and you're just reacting against what you fear was said instead of what actually was said.

>>3819480
>teenage YouTubers has conditioned you
You are still projecting so hard holy shit.

>>3804025 (OP)
I genuinely really like wotr but do agree that there are some very poor decisions with the writing.

I feel like the game has a great setting for nuanced story telling, and some of it is well executed. But this is a complaint thread so lets get to it:

Everyone's favourite character Ember's public sermons are particularly fucking terrible, completely unbelievable, unconvincing trash that chatgpt could've easily improved on.
I think the idea of ember is compelling, that she is some divine, unknowing savant with limitless power to persuade.. but her actual dialog is fucking greta tier bullshit.

Seelah has 0 character development, she just doesn't go anywhere with her journey, she can't fall, she cant become more hardline, she's just whatever. She also stands by while an evil mc commits endless atrocities, when she should be an evil mc's first enemy, Wack, lazy writing. Rogue trader did it a fuck lot better when argenta is literally looking for any reason to murder the psyker in your party.

Then there's the side content. the fucking dark elf trash quest, the fallout vault quest. holy shit. having nothing would've been an improvement. fuck fan content.

Also on a personal note, I hate nenio. she's trash. fuck you.

Also maybe unrelated but as a lich I should be able to kill and res any party member as grave guard.

>>3816121
>They're also the best tanks in the game.

really? how is that?

>>3820077
>complaining that Seelah doesn't do anything if you're evil
>but praising RT and Argenta
lol
lmao
Argenta killed Theodora instantly once she saw the chaos artifact, when you play heretical she doesn't do jack shit, you can literally grab a daemon engine for yourself and she just cries about it but doesn't immediately try to kill you right then and there, as she should

>>3819537
Try something that's not purposefully hateful, insulting, and moralizing towards one half of the population.

>>3820078
Like Monks they can get Wis mod to AC in addition to a scaling Dodge typed bonus from class levels. They also have extreme self-healing through spells (like Cleanse) and lay hands. They can use shields if you don't want to spent the build currency to cast Shield spells on yourself (but Shield spells don't scale like actual shields do). And there's the self-buff steroids on the cleric spell list (like Grace, Angelic Aspect and Sacred Nimbus).

Do keep in mind that Sacred Fist archetype comes from a mod based on the tabletop:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/warpriest/archetypes/paizo-warpriest-archetypes/sacred-fist/

Which is based on a 3.5 PrC:

https://dndtools.net/classes/sacred-fist/

>>3820091
Such a bizarre thing to say. You're saying that half of the population is some form of "toxic masculinity"? Because that's not true and you'd be the very first person I've seen to suggest it.

I think what you're trying to say is that you didn't understand what was said earlier to you about it. Masculinity isn't toxic and no one said it is. They said that toxic masculinity is toxic. That's why toxic masculinity is called toxic - specifically to distinguish it from true masculinity.

And furthermore, half of the population isn't masculine. Most men aren't masculine. Being a man or being male doesn't mean you must identify as masculine, and nor does it mean you fuse your identity to any particular style of masculinity (even toxic masculinity).

You sound like you're a pretty young kid still, so it's ok if you're still trying to figure out things about life and culture and stuff. The important task for you at your age is to just be quiet about things when you are confused. Because if you're talking, you're not listening. If you're not listening, you're not learning. If you're not learning, then you're gonna remain the stupid little shit that you currently are.

And everyone here can smell you from a mile away, you stupid little shit.

Stop watching other stupid little shits on YouTube. They are not good role models, and the talking points they're poisoning you with will stand out as screaming red flags to everyone you meet.

Hey so, I decided I'd finally play this after all the DLCs were finished.

I don't remember a single goddamn thing about it other than the fact that I do know I want to go *Angel* and probably romance Arue since literally every single RO is a hoe and at least she gives you kids

So uh...what do i gotta do? What's a good Angel class? The only thing I remember is being a bit disappointed with Paladin, and that I need to get the sword from the prologue because I missed it the first time.

>>3820123
>>3820091
Not RPGs

>>3820128
Not RPGs

>>3820127
Any full divine caster so you can merge spellbooks

>>3820135
I have no idea what that means, what full divine casters are, or whether that will block my ability to smite shit with the power of the heavens and a flaming sword.

>>3820123
Didn't read. Stop calling the core identity of half the population toxic, or risk losing any remaining credibility and good faith your religion-ideology still has.

>>3820127
Angel spells go all the way up to spell level 9. Their spellbook *can* be merged with one of your existing priest classes. This means if you have cleric, oracle, druid or shaman levels, you can merged your Angel mythic spellbook with that class in order to use your class's spell slots to cast those Angel spells. Notice that you cannot merge it with non-full-caster divine classes (inquisitor, paladin, hunter, ranger, warpriest). Angel spells can be extremely strong and are definitely worth casting compared to any other divine spell you could put in that slot. You do NOT *have to* merge your mythic spellbook with one of your class spellbooks, though...

Other than that, their other features don't depend on your class.Their main features are that they summon various kinds of angels generally increasing in power as you gain ranks. They also get a buff that basically makes weapon attacks do holy damage and other "rider" effects. But you can get mythic traits that apply these bonuses to your group so you don't have to be the one making the attacks yourself.

In general, druid is a difficult class to do with Angel due to alignment issues (if you go to Law-Good, you lose your druid powers until you Atone to shift back to an allowed Alignment). Sosiel is an extremely good Cleric companion, and Daeran is already set up as a healbot Oracle. Shaman is an *incredibly* powerful class, and although you start the game with Camellia, she's hyper-ultra-super evil and not really compatible with an Angel playthrough.

So although there's not really a strong reason to avoid having two clerics or oracles on the team, you might want to use Shaman for your main character and merge your Angel spellbook into it. You might be able to get druid to work with some cheats and a lot of careful planning, but it might be more trouble than it's worth and not stronger than a properly built Shaman.

>>3820145
I see, then, well, I don't know. I generally wanted to go the route of HOLY KNIGHT, rather than just a spellcaster.

>>3820136
>I have no idea what that means
You merge angel's spellbook with your class' spellbook, so instead of getting 20 caster levels like every caster you get 10 more thanks to your mythic ranks. For example you can get level 9 spells as early as act 3 (level 9 spells are late-game, you obtain the angel mythic path right before act 2 ends) and you get a shitload more spell slots
>what full divine casters are
Casters that use divine magic (like clerics), they tend to be more support focused compared to arcane casters
Full means that they can use up to level 9 spells, there are caster classes that only reach 6 or even 4
>or whether that will block my ability to smite shit with the power of the heavens and a flaming sword
You spam pic related, tl;dr, beam of light that's unavoidable
alternatively you can use mods to let you merge your spellbook with paladin which is much better flavor-wise, angel is kind of a one trick pony (but a very powerful one) without merging your spellbook you don't get much

>>3820136
"Full divine caster" means druid, cleric, oracle or shaman. They eventually get access to the most powerful divine spells (they have "full" progression), but cleric and oracle share a spell list, while druid and shaman have spell lists specific for their classes.
"Merge spellbooks" means that the mythic path you're choosing makes available some spells specific to it. By progressing on that mythic path, you gain an entire spellbook with just that mythic path's spells in it. But in this case, Angel's spellbook can be "merged" with one of your preexisting spellbooks - if you have levels in druid, cleric, oracle or shaman. If you choose to do so, you can then prepare and cast your Angel spells using your normal class spell slots.

Why would you want to merge your spellbooks? Because you can get a LOT more spells per day with your normal / "real" spellbook through various feats and ability score bonuses and whatnot. So if you want to cast a lot of your mythic spells, you will want to be able to use your normal class's spell slots for it (because you get a lot more of them).

Angel has extremely strong spells as a primary feature of that mythic path.

>>3820149
There is absolutely nothing wrong with using cleric for that. They have medium BAB and they start with proficiency in medium armor. You can either take a level in Fighter to get lots of things like martial weapon proficiency, tower shield proficiency and heavy armor proficiency as well as bonus feats and stuff, or you can just spend a feat to pick up a weapon or armor proficiency if you really want heavier armor or something.
Clerics are already functional as "holy knights" out of the box, they just don't necessarily have Smite, and they use spells for healing instead of Lay Hands.
This is PF1e, so clerics are NOT "sit in the back and be a cheerleader". They are rowdy frontline tanks.

>>3820154
But I *want* to smite shit

Honestly, Paladin would have been the perfect choice, but I distinctly remember it being weak.

>>3820156
Just put all your levels in demon hunter ranger and dual wield long swords.

>>3820141
You can't even read. So that's one reason you're a laughing stock with no credibility. It's also one reason why you're toxic.

>>3820158
Can't you go proselytize your toxic feminism on some other board? Try this >>>/pol/

>>3820156
Paladin is not weak. It's just that their spells are a minor feature of their total kit. You can still be a paladin angel. There's nothing wrong with it and it's not weak.
I have no fucking clue where you even got that idea in the first place. If there were ever a campaign to be a paladin in, it's this one where 90% of your enemies are demons. I've seen my paladin crit a vital strike for more than 500 damage, and he's not particularly optimized for it.

>>3820161
You're the one proselytizing your nazi pseudo-intellectual bullshit. Why don't you go back to pol where you came from?

>>3820162
>I have no fucking clue where you even got that idea in the first place
Because I played the start of the game before and it felt lackluster.

Anyways, I've heard that multiclass that really buffs the Paladin is Hellknight. Is that true?

>>3820149
>I generally wanted to go the route of HOLY KNIGHT, rather than just a spellcaster.
>>3820156
>Honestly, Paladin would have been the perfect choice
This is fucking stupid. Just roll a pure class level 20 paladin and pick angel path and go smite myriad demons in the face. The game is literally designed for precisely that.
>but it's not OPTIMAL
Shut the fuck up and just do it and play the game and have fun.

>>3820156
Paladin is not only not weak, but it's also one of the best support classes in the game. Smite evil is really strong, and mark of justice is a party wide smite evil, it just has no synergy with angel

>>3820165
I don't see what synergy Hellknight has with Paladin specifically.
Everyone feels lackluster in the tutorial because you're level 1 and you have no equipment and no mythic ranks. The entire point of the tutorial is to establish that you feel weak compared to the demon threat. It's what makes your heroic power so noticeable later when you begin gaining mythic ranks.

In any case, it sounds like you don't really know much about Pathfinder's mechanics in general, so what you really want to know is how to make a character that will suit the playstyle you enjoy.

So first you need to know what playstyle you even enjoy.

If you like "smiting" things, you need to think carefully and honestly about what you mean by smiting. You mean the class feature Smite Evil? Or do you just mean "hitting demons really really hard"? Because if it's the former, you don't necessarily have to be a paladin to use smite evil or similar types of abilities. And, again, I can't stress this enough, there is absolutely nothing wrong with paladins. If it's the latter, you can hit demons really hard with all kinds of funky builds.

>>3820167
Paladin is not a support class... what the actual fuck. It's the class which all other classes try to support (but they can't because paladin does not need supports to be the big goddamn hero that it already is).

>>3820171
By "smite" I mean "hit demons hard with the power of the heavens". You can get a pretty good divine sword that you can upgrade throughout the game in the tutorial, right?

>>3820173
Smite evil adds your charisma bonus to attack rolls and your paladin level to damage when used against an evil enemy (which is 99% of them)
Mark of justice does the exact same thing, but for the entire party, it's insanely good, and it doesn't mean that paladin is suddenly bad at killing things
>Paladin is not a support class
Who the fuck told you that anyway, Paladin has always, stereotypically, been just as much about supporting and defending as it is about dealing damage

>>3820174
Ok, what do you mean by power of the heavens? Golden glowing particles? Is the strength to one-shot a demon not the power of heavens because it's literally just massive strength bonus and Power Attack and Vital Strike so the particles it makes aren't glowing gold?
There are many "divine swords" in the game. Big fucking sword sanctified as a holy relic is kind of the entire schtick of many weapons. In particular, there's a mithril bastard sword you'll get before Drezen that you could use for a long while. And there's various other types of two-handed weapons that are similar though they might be an estoc or falchion or greatsword or other type of weapon.
Trust me, there is a large variety of weapons in the game, and if all else fails, transform Finnean into the specific one you want. That's what he's there for (keep doing his upgrade quests).
The idea that you'd need to use a tutorial weapon for the whole game is a little silly, but since it can be upgraded later (more than once, in fact), entirely doable.
The relic sword you find in the tutorial that's an actual weapon is what I assume you're talking about.
If you're talking about the plot moment when you meet Lann, that's not a physical weapon / item that you acquire since it's more like a fragment of an angel's spirit that joins your soul (unlocking the Angel mythic path in the process).

>>3820177
>Ok, what do you mean by power of the heavens? Golden glowing particles? Is the strength to one-shot a demon not the power of heavens because it's literally just massive strength bonus and Power Attack and Vital Strike so the particles it makes aren't glowing gold?
Golden Glowing Particles *would* be nice, but I will also accept fire or lightning or any such "smite"-related element.

>The relic sword you find in the tutorial that's an actual weapon is what I assume you're talking about.
I meant Radiance. That's what it's called, right?

>>3820174
Radiance, yes, it's a longsword and it gets updated through the game, but sometimes it gets outclassed in-between updates
You really should just play paladin and call it a day, stack as much charisma as you can for smite evil

>>3820176
Lay Hands is an emergency stopgap. It does not mean that paladins are a support class. They are powerful tanks because they can achieve good AC with heavy armor and a shield on top of extremely good saves with Divine Grace... but being durable does not mean they're a support.

In fact, since there isn't really any kind of aggro-management mechanism in the game, there are no "tanks" as a role in the party dynamic. There are only classes which are more durable than others. And paladins are very very durable - all without giving up massive damage potential.

>>3820181
>mark of justice
>all the spells that are useless in a fight and exist to buff yourself, party members and cure ailments
>auras
Paladins are support too

>>3820179
Radiance is an important relic for historical and sentimental reasons, and it's useful for its special properties to penetrate demon defenses early on. But there are times during the game when it lags behind other weapons you might find because the plot events when you can upgrade it are significant and important moments.
It's more like a symbolic item to keep with you than it is an "uber weapon" for most of the story. But it is at least a guaranteed demon-killer you can find early in the tutorial when demon's defenses pose a significant challenge (depending on difficulty settings).
Seems like a paladin thing to do, to keep a fallen hero's personal weapon with them as a symbol of courage and honor.

>>3820183
Name a class that doesn't have tools which affect other party members or which buff themselves with contextual steroids. Go on. Think about it. I'll wait.

>>3820185
Fighter

>>3820180
I would actually recommend starting with 15 charisma. You do need some strength, maybe 15 or so. It's ok to leave Dex at 10. And you'll need at least 13 Con.
If you're going for any combat maneuvers, you might need Dex 13 or Int 13 or both. And I personally believe that Dex and Int 13 is extremely wise on all melees because combat maneuvers are insane in these video games where trip means the enemy is literally stunned until they stand up (which provokes attacks of opportunity and also costs them a Move Action). Being able to Blind at-will is also powerful (it does not test Fortitude or Spell Resistance, obviously, so you can blind undead and everything else, too).
For non-casters, the cost of maxing one ability score is just flat-out not worth it. Noob trap. Don't do it. 15 is plenty, and you need to not neglect other important ability scores.

>>3820186
They have Use Magic Device as a skill. Furthermore, they are strong tanks, so that's a support feature, too. Fighters are officially actually a support class.

If you don't agree, then you have to admit that your bullshit logic torturing pedantry earlier to call paladins supports was just that: bullshit. Don't double down just cause you said something stupid.

>>3820189
>If you're going for any combat maneuvers
you shouldn't, they're useless unless you're a dog auto tripping

>>3820189
Main character needs skill points for persuasion, too. Lore: Religion isn't a bad investment for paladins.

>>3820180
>You really should just play paladin and call it a day, stack as much charisma as you can for smite evil
That's fair. Any specific builds to help guide me? I don't wanna have to play in easy baby mode because of a shitty build.

>>3820192
Combat maneuvers are not guaranteed to work on everything on every attempt. Nothing is. You're not guaranteed to be able to hit stuff with your melee attacks, either. But you'll have an easier time doing so while it's prone. And there's ways to get extra attacks on stuff you're tripping so that you don't give up too much action economy.

If you're not playing on easy mode (in which case nothing matters, because you'll splatter everything no matter what you build), then being able to crowd control is more important than being able to hit hard.

But where paladin really shines is as a Dazzling Display intimidate build. You do need weapon focus for it, though, so the feat tax is nasty (though you can get mods make you get a feat every level instead of every other level, or you could toybox in the feat taxes for free to yourself). You can pump your intimidate checks crazy high for super cheap, and due to how the math works, it becomes basically guaranteed to work on anything not fear-immune by level 8. And then you can add on extra stuff to cause frighten on shaken targets with it.... A guaranteed frighten in a huge AoE with a massive debuff with a standard action??? Fucking broken OP.

>>3820199
>Dazzling Display intimidate build
That's op. Tried the build once in km, everything is frightened all the time.

>>3820196
Get Power Attack and then either Cleave (for AoE) or Vital Strike (for one-shotting single targets). Nothing else really matters before mid game when you have enough weapons to choose from that you can safely buy Weapon Focus to get the improved crit feat(s).
In end game, due to the sheer number of attacks you'll make per round, and because of how extreme the multipliers get, crits are how you kill things because one crit can be worth five normal hits... And if you get a weapon + feat combo you can make your weapon have a 25% crit threat range, so one in every four attacks will crit. That's how you go full blender mode.

>>3820201
Yeah, but I mean like..stats or upgrades and such. I don't really know how to 'make' a good build.

>>3820200
Honestly the main reason to not use that build is because it's boring to not fight anything and spend all your time chasing fleeing enemies... Completely trivializes the game while making combats tedious. It's broken OP and your GM would be well in his rights to bludgeon you unconscious with the rulebook, but it also robs your entire game of all fun.

>>3820203
You can equip whatever weapons you have in your inventory. The thing that's harder to change is your feat choices and class choices. You already know you want to play a paladin. We already told you to start your Strength above 15 (an odd number like that will round up to an extra modifier bonus with one of your levelup bumps, so I recommend you put your level 4 bump into strength). So find a two-handed weapon and get power attack. It's not complicated, anon. Why are you being such a dumbass pussy about this.

If you want literally TWENTY YEARS of character optimization lore dumped on you in a 4chan comment thread, you're gonna be waiting a while. Go fucking use google and type in "wrath of the righteous paladin optimized build", you fucking dumb fuck.

Fuck.

>>3820203
>stats
STR and CHA are the main ones
>upgrades
Feats, weapon focus (and plus), improved critical, power attack, and outflank, focus on that at first, and make sure other martials also grab outflank
The build guides are all autistic and either expect you to know the game, or to minmax to clear unfair mode, ignore them. You can respec at any time anyway as long as you're not playing on core or above (which you shouldn't) or you can just play custom difficulty and enable respec no matter what

>>3820208
Just a note here as a reminder ... that you can just respec your character in this game. Talk to the pathfinder agent guy and tell him you want to retrain. You'll meet him once you get to the tavern after the tutorial and he'll be in your camp on your way to Drezen and then he'll be in Drezen after you take it.

>>3820214
My advice is to not buy Weapon Focus early. Wait until you know what weapon type you will be using. For example greatsword is actually not a good idea to get weapon focus in too early since there just aren't any notable greatswords in the first half of the game (sword of hope is a bastard sword, for example). Also in mid and late game, weapon types are not as important as the specific weapon item you have. Some weapons are clearly superior compared to others, just due to their specific enchantments. In late game, you'll have a much wider variety to pick a good fit from.
There's really no rush since you can't even buy the improved crit feats until your base attack bonus is high enough, which is basically mid-late game anyway.

>>3820208
>>3820214
Alright, thanks anons.

Now to find a good Angel Portrait art. I already have one for my 'base' guy, I just need something for once he goes angel. I don't think the standard portrait looks 'angel'-y enough.

>>3820217
Finnean can become any weapon type, but he doesn't start off with all the enchantments. So if you want / need a specific one, you'll have to wait till you do his upgrades.

>>3820218
Who uses the standard portraits?! Gooning over your custom portrait is half the time you'll spend in the character creation screen.
And now we have generative AI, so...

>>3820220
No, I already found a *custom* portrait for the base guy.

I don't like how AI looks though.

>>3820221
Fair warning, when you get down the angel mythic path, it adds a golden halo and white wings. It doesn't radically transform you with an aura of glory or whatever.

>>3820222
Yeah, that's what I mean. I feel like the image I wanted is pretty basic. I just don't like how the standard angel portrait looks. But I've had no luck finding something that fits.

>>3820224
Going into a mythic path doesn't change your portrait, anon.

>>3820225
You have the choice to change your portrait and I feel like it would be weird not to.

>>3820225
>grow angel wings
>portrait doesn't reflect that
If you don't edit the portrait yourself to give it wings then you're soulless

>>3820228
I actually found some pretty cool Aasimar portraits that already have wings and would fit, but they don't have the halo, which is a bit of a shame.

>>3820229
And, I should add, I don't know how to 'edit' a halo in.

>>3820189
Something that's really hard to plan for is dexterity. Full Plate armor has a dex cap of 1 (so the maximum dexterity modifier you can add to your AC while wearing it is 1), but there are classes like fighter which increase the dex cap of your armor. There's mythic feats which can modify the restrictions of your armor. And there's mithril full plate armors, too (armors made of mithril are lighter and less restrictive than normal, but they're rare and expensive). Unlike in Kingmaker, you don't have dozens of belts of physical perfection +6 laying around, so you need to pick which belt to wear, and you don't want to wear a dex belt if most of the bonus is wasted because you're wearing heavy armor, but nor do you want your AC to be a few points lower than it could be just because you aren't wearing a dex belt.
That gets into the weeds, though, and other than Regil, just about all the companions are low-Strength high-Dex builds (which really fucking SUCKS for some of them...).

>>3820230
Is now a bad time to mention that you can upload the image as input to a generative AI and tell it to add a halo and wings...?

>>3820233
Or you can just use the mythic feat to add half your STR bonus to AC and then pump as much STR as possible

>>3820228
Do you edit your portrait to reflex that your skin texture has changed while you're benefiting from the Stoneskin buff...?

>>3820236
I'm not an AI guy, anon, I don't know where or how to do that. I don't have any AI models on my PC.

This is the image I was talking about, mind. For the "Angel" mode.

>>3820238
No I use VA2 to remove the buff effects

>>3820237
Terrible scaling. Also costs a feat tax of Heavy Armor Focus. So it can never end up giving you as much AC as just normal Fighter armor training with sufficient Dex.

>>3820239
Local models aren't what anyone is talking about, anon. They're talking about generative AI webservices. You don't have to "know how to do that" any more than you have to "know how to use google".

>>3820237
Costs a mythic feat slot for +3 to 5 AC? No fucking thanks.

>>3820243
Ya, spend that mythic feat on something that will add two hundred damage per round to your full attacks instead.

Okay, so, just to confirm, what's the DLC Order that I should follow for a 'complete' playtrhough that gets as much stuff as possible?

I know you should do "Through the Ashes" after the Prologue but Before Act 1

>>3820090
fair point, desu I still haven't got that far in RT, but it was refreshing to see Argenta at least act her role in the early chapters with regard to the psyker character. Whereas in most cases Seelah does fucking nothing for near on 5 chapters, when she should be out to nuke you as soon as you start doing anything shady.

They really let her down imo, its the perfect setting for a paladin to be able to get corrupted, go full on righteous holy war mode, become totally embittered, or be a shining exemplar of virtue. Seelah does none of that shit, she has the character development of a merc

>>3820280
For Through the Ashes before the Tavern siege in act 1, or before you attack the Grey Garrison, basically before you beat act 1
Lord of Nothing is the sequel to Through the Ashes, and that one can be played at any time, but the first time to transfer your save is right after you beat the vescavors in act 2, there are more I think, but that's the one I did, and unlike Through the Ashes, this one adds a (fairly short) dungeon in act 5
you don't HAVE to play them mind you, most people don't because you play as literal whos instead of your own character

>>3820290
I played the Side Campaign in Kingmaker, I definitely will.

>>3820290
But wait, what about the other ones? There's a few other DLCs no? What about those?

>>3820294
Inevitable Excess happens right before the final boss
Midnight Isles are a super mega dungeon that are first unlocked in act 3, and you unlock more of them in later acts
The Last Sarkorians adds a new companion that joins you early on, and A Dance of Masks is a Citadel DLC copy that happens very late-game

This games feels like a chore to play. Therefore it is a bad game.

>>3820799
You have to go into WotR with the mindset of playing a humble crusader, for whom slaying innumerable demons is its own reward. I can’t imagine that picking any other path than angel is much fun.

>>3820799
What good games wif no chorse?

>>3820799
Sounds you're struggling with the big words like "it" and "the". Maybe try something more your speed? Tic-Tac-Toe or Mother May I?

>>3820286
That's not Owlcat's fault. It's part of the licensing contract they signed. The "iconic" characters from Paizo's Golarion weren't allowed to be significantly altered from their established canon, and Owlcat had to include one iconic as a companion. In Kingmaker it was Amiri, and in this one it's Seelah.

So they couldn't actually have Seelah develop in a way that would affect the rest of her lore without violating their contract.

Some of the companions of both games (like Jubilost in Kingmaker and Sosiel in Wrath) were part of the published Adventure Path, but they weren't "iconic" / flagship characters, so there was more leeway given in their stories.

>>3820851
Ah yes, the classic "actually, Paizo said so"
Let me guess, Paizo also said that they can't have romances, right?

>try to fight the water elemental in shield maze
>it crits thrice in a row
Lol. Lmao.

I'm starting to think I should just lower the difficulty to normal

>>3820851
Paizo didn't say half the shit Owlcat and randoms online claimed they did. Even if you argue Paizo reps might be lying, what you're left with then is he-said-she-said that solves nothing. It's just a very convenient excuse to say "actually we weren't allowed so not our fault lol".

>>3820856
The elemental is bullshit on all difficulties. It's exclusively there for autists.

>>3820856
That's literally the hardest fight in the game. It's pure luck. You need to grease it and hope you kill it while it's down. That's all there is to it.

>>3804025 (OP)
FYI Seelah is an iconic character well estabilished in the Pathfinder lore.
By the way you sounds like a /pol/tard autistic, maybe you should stick with Sex with Hitler and have fun.

>>3820882
Grease it with fucking what nigga??

>>3820842
I am only playing it because I want to be a lich and also because I can turn into a mammoth.

>>3820844
RPG-wise? Bloodlines, Planescape, NWN expansions, BGs.

>>3820849
Projection

Oh yeah, DA:O also didn't have chores. Morrowind too. Skyrim. Fallouts, except for 4.

>>3820874
Ok. Well, then it doesn't matter because there's nothing actually wrong with Seelah's story, even if it wasn't the one YOU thought she should have. She doesn't have to be a dramaqueen to be allowed to appear in the game.

>>3820854
>Paizo also said that they can't have romances, right?
That's the story, last I heard it. I suppose you're gonna pretend you're superior by just denying it without evidence?

>>3820952
Nothing because it isn't supposed to be trippable. If you can trip it with anything, that's a bug and you should report it as such.

It's a purely optional fight for an item that isn't particularly good. At that stage in the game it's an insanely out of depth encounter, and it exists only for the sake of optimizing munchkins. If you're playing on Normal or higher, ignore it.

>>3821103
No, I'm to going to act superior by posting evidence
Paizo didn't stop them from including romances
Owlcat never blamed Paizo for it either, that's just another rumor
And what you say is also wrong, Paizo doesn't give a fuck about "canon" in a video game, if they did, they wouldn't allow you to make Seelah's life miserable by turning her into a failure, or they wouldn't allow you to kill her

>>3821107
>If you're playing on Normal or higher, ignore it.
You can grease it, and you need to kill it on core to get the achievement.

>>3821169
>to get the achievement.
Muh cheevos

>>3821112
Reminder that Amiri did in fact have a romance plot, which was the focus of her entire story and character development when she goes back to see her ex...

>>3821169
You definitely should not be able to grease it, that's blatantly against the rules of the game even if the video game's code does it as a loophole in how conditions are defined and applied. It's as egregious as if the water elemental didn't roll 1d20 and simply auto-succeeded on its attacks. The game's code could do that, and if it was intentional then it wouldn't technically be a "bug" in the code. But it would be completely wrong and stupid.

>start a new playthrough
>go to tavern cellar to get tiefling
>go to tavern to talk to whatshername so she okays me getting tiefling
>go back to cellar
>talk to guard
>forced to watch a cutscene about guards freeing tiefling
>go to tiefling meeting place
>go back to tavern
>talk to whatshername
>get pointer to talk to golem
>talk to golem & owner
>go back to tieflings place
>find traitor

this should have been
>go to tavern cellar
>free tiefling on dialogue check or because whatshername told you to get help
>go to tiefling meeting place
>go to shop and talk to golem & owner
>go back to tiefling place, find traitor

>>3821659
>leave tiefilng to rot because LG chad
>disappears forever
>nothing lost

>>3821663
I needed a non serial killer lockpick but I did tell le science fox to gtfo. Speaking of which, why are literally all enemies using single-target spells on immune to death magic and ability drain, but not immune to phantasmal killer? This kills necromancy but still allows for 1 hit kills on them.

>>3805841
>modern politics
Such as? A lot of "modern" politics are just old politics with a new coat of paint.
>gender "issues"
That was a Paizo thing and Owlcat hid it down a deep dark hole you might not dig up after multiple playthroughs.

>>3809842
>Oh yeah, and has anybody tried the Automatic Bonus Progression mod?
I don't play without it anymore and I'm tempted to port into my actual tabletop games too.

Man, From the Ashes is fucking hard. I got the mercenaries, which is great, but I still get one-shot by a fucking centipede

>>3821695
You need rather specific classes for it. Many are practically unviable. Classes with pets make it way easier. A kineticist, and a character or two with lesser restoration are extremely useful too.

>>3821699
I do have both a Kineticist and an Oracle. But the Oracle doesn't have Restoration at Lvl 1

>>3821101
>YOU
Who the fuck are you talking to? That's the first post I made in this entire thread.

Whats the best mythic path and class combo's for mantis zealot if I want to go legend

>>3821819
I don't know about "best," but barbarian is pretty fun.

Mantis gives some excellent dodge AC, a percentage chance to avoid damage, and fast healing. Barbarian gives the Come and Get Me rage power, a nice chunk of of damage resistance, plus extra niceties like full BAB.
Stack dex, throw in some obvious feats, and you get a shockingly tanky motherfucker handing out counter attacks for free. If you want to, like I did, instinctual warrior even gets AC and initiative from wis for that extra justification in filling out the warpriest's spellbook.

Going the full 20/20 is almost certainly stupid, but I like it. When the build is about drawing fire and dodging shit, a 60% chance to avoid any targeted spell is no joke.

Well, I finally finished 'Through the Ashes'

I guess I kinda cheated by using the mercenaries, but I'm not doing all that shit again.

>>3822221
The game wants you to use mercenaries, unless you intend to beat the entire thing with only three characters

>>3822304
It's clearly the "Narrative" route, though. Thus the achievement while mercenaries are walking Statblocks without a single dialogue line.

It'd be such a pain in the ass, though. What fucking class could you even use for doing it?

Are there any other RPGs that have some kind of settlement management or some other kind of management that plays a bigger role? I know in Pathfinder games settlements are just for some flavor, but I still enjoyed them.

Something like Dead in Vinland, it's not the best and RNG heavy, but if you like management and RPG elements it's pretty nice.

>>3821819
>best mythic path
cleric to angel by a long shot and then wizard to lich as a distant second

>>3822591
Ni No Kuni 2

>>3821668
Settle in for some deep lore, young one. Way back in 2010 when PF1e was launching, there was a lot of misinformation and bullshit drama in the D&D 3.5e playerbase about what was wrong and what should be changed and how. Paizo was eager to capitalize upon the opportunity of how deeply unpopular 4e was, and decided to make some hasty changes to 3.5 and call it an "update" and then publish this "updated" system under the OGL to scoop up a huge fraction of WotC's marketshare.

This meant that "Save Or Die" spells like Finger Of Death and Wail Of The Banshee were hard nerfed to merely do damage. Phantasmal Killer was left alone mostly because it was a fairly obscure spell that no one really used. Why was it so unpopular? Because it allowed (*gasp!*) TWO entire saving throws which meant of course that it's useless. Of course. Of course.

So anyway, lots of these ill-advised hasty edits to 3.5 spells were done purely to mollify a loud minority of complete DUMBfucks who camped out on charop forums back in the day. Turns out, all their ideas were fucking stupid as FUCK and literally every change they demanded has proven in the fullness of time to have been so. And thus we get more spells like Suffocate which still kill targets, it just takes longer (which feels more "fair" in a game where three rounds in combat is an eternity). But due to the difficulty / expensive of republishing errata and stuff, reverting nerfs to Necromancy was too low a priority and never did get done.

Meanwhile, notoriously anti-pattern designs like arbitrary HD limits on spells (Color Spray, Sleep, Hypnotic Pattern, etc.) remain in. Why? Because it was deemed too risky to touch the sacred cows. Those spells work like that because of how wonky and janky WotC game design was in the 1980s and '90s but after twenty five years of being like that, D&D players wouldn't want them changed to something unfamiliar.

>>3822659
(cont'd)

The full truth of the matter is that Sleep is too powerful to be a level 1 spell. It's a more complete disable than Stun, and even with a 4 HD limit, it's still gamebreaking during the phase of the game that it's effective. Given its small radius, however, and the fact that it allows a save to negate, once you're past the early levels it becomes merely an effective crowd control, just like so many others. It's actually not even as powerful as Slow, since it is such a small area and any damage wakens a target... and any ally can spend a Standard to waken a victim. So in fact Sleep should not even have a HD limit and should instead be bumped up to spell level 3 but not any higher than that. This, however, would change the expectation of level 1 wizards about their early game gimmicks and the vocal minority couldn't have that.

Similarly for stuff like Color Spray. The fact that it's a small cone means you're in melee and in danger if you position yourself to use it. It's more powerful than other spell level 1 effects, sure, but that just means it's competing with spell level 2 powerhouses like Glitterdust, Web and Sound Burst which are far safer and more convenient to use (and in the case of those Conjurations, they don't even allow Spell Resistance!). So the actual balance fix for Color Spray is to allow separate saves against the Blind and Stun, remove the Unconsciousness (which never made any sense anyway) and then have a set duration of 1d4 rounds running parallel for both conditions. And then you could remove the HD limit and it'd remain an interesting disable for its spell slot at spell level 2 but not as strong as SL3 spells like Slow.

Hypnotic Pattern should have been spell level 1 from the start since Fascinate technically is supposed to end as soon as combat breaks out... The HD limit was always fucking stupid and should be removed entirely (SL1 spells already have the weakest save DCs).

>>3822661
(cont'd)

If what you're asking is why does PK work on stuff immune to Death effects, it's because PK does not have the Death tag.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/phantasmal-killer/

As you can see, it has the (phantasm), [emotion, fear, mind-affecting] tags. It is not a death effect, so Death Ward will not block it. Undead are immune for several reasons, being that it's mind-affecting and it allows a Fortitude save, for examples.

But normal mortals relying on Death Ward to protect them from Finger Of Death or Circle Of Death will not be protected against Phantasmal Killer.

>>3817352
There's a mod with an option to fix the illegal caster level of enemy buffs, at least. Which I consider absolutely mandatory to make the game even playable. I think it's Tabletop Tweaks.

>>3804025 (OP)
>Quantity over quality
>Produced in less than a year
>Written by zoomer and millennial leftist slavoids
>had to be approved by pozzo

Wew that's it, I'm lowering difficulty, core is too hard and I am not gonna bother with an optimal build or buffing. Goblins should not ignore finger of death and I am not playing a wizard to cover floor with grease or lull enemies to sleep or color spray them, I am playing a wizard to be MASTER OF ARCANE ARTS.

>>3822662
I am less asking and more saying. I know how PK works and will/fort save. DnD/PF is a dumbshit system when used as a challenge; it is easy to abuse but the abuse is not fun and it's only good with rule of cool if you roleplay vs wargaming it like Gygax initially intended.

>>3822837
We agree that roleplaying is the best way to experience tabletop games, but I don't think PF1e is bad for a video game experience. Nor do I think PF1e is a particularly good system for roleplay-oriented groups. Use GURPS for that.

But for groups that can reign in their most destructive munchkin impulses while enjoying a lot of crunch, PF1e is superior to any edition of D&D.

>>3822837
What are the arcane arts? You're not fond of colors or lubricated floors. That leaves maybe flesh-to-sculpture and ear piercing music. Aside from scribe scrotum which you don't really need to engage goblins to do.

Or rather I don't want to bother figuring it all out again.

>>3822850
>>3822852
Whoops didn't refresh. I've just been getting progressively more mad at the difficulty in core but mostly because I didn't want to bother with anything, including buying my party equipment.

Any DnD-like is bad for video game experience because video games let you do a myriad of calculations and be way closer to reality whereas DnD implies it's a dude counting dice rolls. If you want crunch, you play a video game with a ruleset made from the ground up, if you want roleplay you play tabletop and just hope the dm doesn't roll initiative for each goblin separately. Or of course you do whatever you want, like crunching tabletop, who cares.

>>3822852
Like picrel. Something you are not ashamed to cast in front of hot babes. Imagine if that wizard had str as dump stat and cast color spray.

What's his build?

>>3815237
Could you imagine if browns had just stayed in their lane in the third world and left whites alone to colonize space rather than trying to co-exist and take advantage at the same time?

>>3815701
Whites means 'light skinned and Protestant' because it was an identity born out of the Enlightenment and pre-supposed that real people don't need to take instructions from the Church any more than they need to take instructions from the Monarchy. We don't count Irish, Italians or Spaniards because they're Catholic, what makes you think Slavs would count when they're Orthodox?

>>3822993
>what makes you think Slavs would count when they're Orthodox?
Imagine denigrating the one true holy catholic and apostolic church like this. What buffoonery.

>>3822993
>an identity born out of the Enlightenment and pre-supposed that real people don't need to take instructions from the Church any more than they need to take instructions from the Monarchy
that didn't work out so good, did it

>>3821044
>Bloodlines, Planescape, NWN expansions, BGs.
all haf chorse. rpg are chorse game.
qwest=chorse

>>3822985
Unarmed Swordsage.
Maybe one of the Paladin variants (freedom?) and Sacred Fist too, I dunno.

>>3822614
Thanks a lot, will check it out.

>>3822985
Fellatio 8
Costume 1
Con 3
Str 2
Cha 1

>>3822865
>I've just been getting progressively more mad at the difficulty in core but mostly because I didn't want to bother with anything, including buying my party equipment.
It sounds like Core difficulty isn't actually your problem, anon...

>>3823060
The thing that catapulted Western Europe and their off-shoots like the US to world domination? No, I'd say it worked out pretty well actually.

>>3823391
the thing that completely eroded their culture and morality to the point of being atomized within a plurality and mind controlled by corporations and institutions and expendable talking heads? empire is cultural suicide and never in the interest of "real people". protestantism and nation building, symptoms of the printing press, were just a way for engineers and merchants to weaponize peasants under ideology. this isn't turning out well for anyone involved. you have an extremely myopic view of life on earth, as if you are the one playing a game.

Why is the stuttering so fucking bad???? It wasn't this bad before, I swear. I can't play this shit with so much stuttering, it's unbearable.

>>3823413
Engineer here. I weaponize peasants on the daily. No really, we need the tradies, they’re great. Love em. Especially when they tell us we are telling them to do something dumb.

>>3823817
you don't and probably can't understand or respond to my post. that's okay. you really can't matter.

Ok I uninstalled. I can't begin to care about anything in this game, it's less exciting than filling out excel sheets which is a shame because I wanted to check out the Abyss (if the plot goes there) and finger of death some demons and stuff.

>>3823390
I guess I got filtered by owlcat "quantity is quality" approach.

It's like, "ok I should get weapon focus" and then I click on the feat and I have to go through a list like this:

Arming sword, Longsword, Bastard sword, Greatsword, Zweihänder, Falchion, Scimitar, Sabre, Messer, Großes Messer, Seax, Katana, Tachi, Wakizashi, Dao, Jian, Mace, Flanged mace, Knobbed mace, Morning star, War hammer, Maul, Club, Cudgel, Flail, Chain flail, Ball-and-chain flail, Battle axe, Dane axe, Bearded axe, Francisca, Poleaxe, Bardiche, Tabar, Dagger, Arming dagger, Rondel dagger, Baselard, Stiletto, Kris, Spear, Pike, Glaive, Halberd, Billhook, Voulge, Lucerne hammer, Partisan, Spetum, Naginata, Yari, Guandao, Shortbow, Longbow, Composite bow, Crossbow, Light crossbow, Heavy crossbow, Arbalest, Repeating crossbow, Javelin, Throwing spear, Throwing axe, Throwing knife, Chakram, Boomerang (war type), Sling, Staff sling, Ballista, Trebuchet, Counterweight trebuchet, Traction trebuchet, Mangonel, Onager, Siege tower, Battering ram, Springald, Scorpion,Falx, Rhomphaia, Kopis, Khopesh, Macuahuitl, Tepoztopilli, Ikakalaka, Shotel, Kampilan, Panabas, Parang, Kukri, Kora, Urumi, Bichwa, Katar, Pata, Tekko-kagi, Sai, Tonfa, Kanabo, Tetsubo, Yatagan, Kindjal, Shashka, Tabarzin, Qama, Estoc, Cinquedea, Claymore, Dirk, Spatha, Gladius (late use), Langseax, War pick, Bec de corbin, Guisarme, Ranseur, Awl pike, Man catcher, Horseman’s pick, Lochaber axe, Fauchard, Boar spear, Winged spear, Leaf-bladed spear, Lance, Heavy cavalry lance, Light cavalry lance, Jousting lance, Banner spear, Pilum (late medieval adaptations), Assegai, Rungu, Iklwa, Harpoon (war type), Atlatl, Plumbata, Throwing dart, Bolas (war type), Kestros, Siege crossbow, Arcuballista, Hand cannon, Bombard, Pot-de-fer, Fire lance, Hwacha, Mantlet, Rotella, Adarga and then I have to alt tab and google which is best and there's 20 pages on some forum about whether 2d6 or 1d12 is better on Sosiel.

And then I lower difficulty and go to some abandoned camp to help Seelah's friends for some reason and some NPCs I half-remember from last act force me to do some silly chase after a quasit that cannot be killed by anyone as I chase it around the map but then suddenly it can be killed and then some irrelevant crap happens to those irrelevant NPCs and then those NPCs go "wow isn't it weird you the commander found the time to look for this dumb ring haha" and then give you some serious speech and the queen goes "you are now the commander btw idk what happened there but I'm giving you command over everything because you must be a cool guy and the crusades haven't been going too well so yolo". Like there's good writing like hellknights part where other crusaders first bitch about them but then when given the choice join them; and then the game tells you about some goblin camp and demons and you are suddenly helping some magic little girl from some other videogame or you have to sit through pages of text because you got some meme item that will get +1 if storyteller touches it.

I'm just curious why a game that has wealth of options and content makes me bored like that. I got joy out of playing Stellaris a couple of times, and it's way more spreadsheety in theory, but I cared about enslaving zlorpians or whatever it was that I did.

who asked?

Probably because story mode difficulty makes me unable to powertrip but actual powertripping on an ok difficulty requires reading and optimizing stuff I give 0 shits about. If it was just classes, then fine, but there's also a ton of unique equipment to be aware of.

Mc shouldn't be a general. Queen as leader looks better and party members being some blessed dudes who are spec ops dudes who make impossible missions possible not mundane administrators. Making them knight and possible our own knight order with cool custome flag.

>>3824326
Yeah. If they wanted an additional game mode, they could have made a tactical mode where you get a dozen troops on top of the main party. As it is, having the MC command the entirety of crusade while also running around the map doing personal missions is stupid. "Yeah I'm gonna disappear for 3 days to check out this cool cave, Tirabade will cover for me" and then the queen also just hangs out at the camp if you ask her.

>>3824326
That's how it is in the tabletop

>>3824304
>>3824310
No one cares about your defects of personal character. Your inability to read or pay attention is not our problem and it is not interesting to any of us. We don't know you. We don't fucking care.
Go talk to your therapist about that shit.

>>3824283
You did get filtered. But not by that. Bye.

>>3824332
There's a fat guy sitting behind the screen throwing dice in the tabletop, doesn't mean owlcat has to implement him.

>>3824338
Owlcat made it like this so they could have their token garbage minigame, which only brings the game down

I wonder if this game could be enjoyable if I absolutely took my time on every fight and dialogue. Probably not, because most of the fights and dialogues are boring. No being lich for me, then :(

>>3804025 (OP)
I like Wrath but RT has a lot less woke/reddit/critical role style.
The characters feel like they come from the world of 40k and not /lgbtq/

Really feels like most of the wokeshit came from Paizo and not Owlcat, which is good to see.

>>3824343
In the first two games, Owlcat relied heavily upon crowdfunding for a large fraction of their development cycle / costs. This meant they had to provide goals and rewards for contributors. The specific things that donors asked for were the panpolybdsm duo of Regongar and Octavia... and Nenio.

If you're complaining about Sosiel, he's a character in the tabletop AP, so Paizo, sure, but his story and romance as implemented by Owlcat are extremely satisfying and not pandering at all. This coming from someone very sensitive to pandering bullshit. Rescue a brother who has fallen from his ideals and been traumatized by the horrors of war? Seems pretty unrelated to sexuality or gender to me. Sosiel isn't weird or kinky. He's barely even sexual at all, and it takes a long time to get to that point with him. His romance is about his personal weaknesses as a sheltered and naive artist, anger management issues regarding injustice, and a crisis of faith about the question of whether beauty and virtue really can overcome the ugliness and vastness of evil.

Other than that, Daeran is obnoxious I guess, but he's meant to be. And it's not because he's bi, it's because he's maladjusted to the situation he's gotten himself into early in his life and the strain of carrying that secret having turned him into a bitter nihilist lashing out at everything.

If you're complaining about Arueshalae, I don't know because I don't care enough about her to have her around.

Ember's Pollyanna motif is annoying, but she's also not a romance option and the conflict between the radical absolutism of her altruistic convictions and its seeming insignificance compared to the overwhelming horror of the demon invasion is a very necessary and fundamental theme of the story as a whole.

Who else annoyed you, anon? That shallow sociopath bitch Camellia? Yeah kill her. We should have had Aravashniel, definitey.

>>3824356
>The specific things that donors asked for were the panpolybdsm duo of Regongar and Octavia... and Nenio
Wrong on both counts, the only thing kicktstarter related involving those three was Nenio's race and the character itself was made up by Owlcat and no one else

>that ending
I'm not gonna spoil BBEG motivations etc but way to ruin the tone of the whole campaign.

>>3824356
Daeran was cool. Edgy for the purpose of edgy, but they all were, in one way or another.

>>3824283
>>3824292
>>3824294
Understandable. I myself prefer spreadsheet-games, and Pathfinder does have a bit of that, but I also almost dropped this game at start because I didn't really care about most of the characters. But I did care enough about Ember, Camellia and Wenduag, and the feat and combat systems were rather fun once I got a hang of them.
>uddenly helping some magic little girl from some other videogame
That's from the free dlc, and it is indeed a bit out of place.

>>3824356
Between LOUD GIRLBOSS BLACK PALADIN I'M BLACK AND A THIEF BUT NAO JUSTICE and oh so reddit Nenio I quickly had enough, and yeah Sosiel just drives it home with effeminate nothing male cleric. Really he's just more boring that anything but all three taken together gets into make the slop stop territory.

Rest of them are fine, I'm an Ember simp and will protec her with my life, the orphaned saint thing in a crusade idea grabbed me from the first. Probably my favorite character overall.
Camellia I get why they have her, unique evil character, I don't run her but she doesn't bother me. Wenduag is too much fun. Aru is the obv. waifu bait but honestly bores me because she is too op.
Daeran is funny and interesting. Like a less obnoxious Astarion. Regill is a great character in a mechanically terrible class. Greyboring is boring. Uflgir or however you spell the griffin guy is great, kinda too good even as he and his dlc dominate my runs.

It's not blacks either it's the reddit, in RT Iridia is great. She fits the world. So do the rest of them. It's like night and day difference.

>>3824441
You don't even know what any of those things are, so no wonder you're overwhelmed and then fall back on your regressive contrarianism.
Seelah is dumb and immature, which is the main premise of her development as a paladin: to develop discipline and maturity. If you don't like her voice actress, ok, but her personality is not "girlboss". That's not what a girlboss is. That's not what that term means at all. You don't like black people and you're trying to stereotype her as something she just isn't because you don't know how to stop projecting your juvenile bigotries to see what's actually happening.
Nenio is a caricature of ultra-retarded unsocialized geek because the writers were frustrated that kitsune won the crowdfunding polls on which race to include as a stretch goal. They made her into a grotesque cartoon of insufferable autistic dork specifically for that reason. She's meant to be insufferable and obnoxious. You're supposed to only barely tolerate her at best. Literally every interaction you have with her presents you numerous opportunities to belittle her or express your disdain for her profound developmental delay.
Sosiel isn't effeminate. That's not what that term means. He's literally courageous to go to the war front and minister to the traumatized and maimed soldiers while also personally partaking in frontline combat. He confronts the horrors of the ghoul chapel and similar scenes without breaking. He is repeatedly shown as a competent warrior (befitting his strength and con scores) all along the way before ever entering the arena to fight alongside his brother in brutal combat. He is shown with very masculine behaviors like outbursts of rage and protective instincts. What you actually did was dismiss him because you saw a black man painting, so you don't actually know anything about it and you made up some blatantly false narrative instead. Anyone who's actually played the game knows how hilarious your description of him is.

>>3824441
So "slop" is just whatever now? It's literally just the word for anything? Video game? SLOP! Homework? SLOP! Lunch? SLOP!!!!

Slop, indeed...

>>3824369
He develops a lot as a person over the course of the story. But he's still definitely obnoxious for at least the first half of it. You kind of have to romance him to see him not be obnoxious towards the very end of the game. Mechanically, he exists so that evil parties have someone who can healbot for them.

How did Areelou manage to manipulate demon lords when she could not hide from inquisition/when she could not hide scrolls from her kid?

>>3824468
He's not obnoxious it's just banter, just his "troll the crusaders" thing is badly written, he would've tired of it way faster than of dumping lovers.

>>3824441
How the fuck is Seelah a girlboss? She routinely refers to herself as retarded and holds no other opinion than "We should be nice to people" and "Demons are bad". She's not even particularly aggressive about either stance, She doesn't even receive any dicksucking from the other characters talking about how cool and competent she is.

>>3804898
Watch out Mr. Biden , Cornpop is right next to you and he wants to eat you!

Regill=autistic manlet
Lann=snarky Marvel character
Seelah=ultra cliche reformed ghetto rat into cop
Camellia=unique but one note
Daeran=Oscar Wilde
Arueshalae=Whore of Babylon but "teehee i fixed naow cuz religion"
Ember=retarded christcuck
Woljif=generic tiefling
Sosiel=molested by older brother
Nenio=bazinga
Greyboar=more like greybore
Wenduag=dude strength lmao rapebait

>>3824568
Do you really expect him to know what he's talking about? he just hates her because she's a negress

I liked Regill

>>3824579
Brown hands wrote this post.

>>3824634
>brown people knowing anything about oscar wilde
retarded slav detected

>>3824647
>blaming slavs for all their problems
Thieving gypsy itt

>abyss is Persia but purple
Bravo

I hope in 15 years somebody remasters this game so it doesnt have 50 billion load screens before you do anything

Literoticafinder: wrath of the companions. Be the very special chosen one in the spectacular world of temu forgotten realms, true to the mediocre pnp (except when it's not).

Gather a team of bisexual heroes and quippy betamales and embark on an epic adventure of slogging through copy paste encounters. Enjoy a well-written, engaging romance with boundary-pushing characters like a black man with anger issues or a prostitute torturer who has changed and is ready to settle down. But the world hides a terrible secret - the real literally hitler are not the chaotic evil demons after all - it's the MAN, man.

>>3824884
>>3824858
What made the /pol/bro mad now?

>>3824478
I don't know that it's badly written. And he is shown as desperately struggling against the tension between ennui and anxiety. He's shown to be already pretty tired of it all. Like when you meet him, he's already way past tired of all the shit, but he's a young man and has no idea what to do to get out of his situation. The reason he can't get any pleasure out of the parties and sex and whatnot is because he's bitter about it, depressed. He's literally already profoundly crippled by the anhedonia by the time you meet him. It's why he flits from scene to scene at his birthday party - because the moment a new idea seizes him he's already desperate to seek it in hopes it'll work for a moment longer because the current activity has already lost his attention.

His story is about the Sword Of Damocles.

And his wealth protecting him from the inquisition isn't unrealistic either since it's only been going on for a little while before you meet him. He's still a young man. I forget how long it's been exactly, but I think at his birthday party you find out it happened like fifteen? twenty? years ago? While he was still a child, basically. And the entire reason you're there is specifically because an inquisitor has been tailing him for years already.

So I don't think he's badly written. His banter is definitely repulsive. If you met someone like that in real life you'd immediately be offended and repulsed. Which is why he does it - to push people away and to relieve his stress by lashing out. If he didn't get a rise out of you he'd keep trying until he finds something that works. Which is what he does in-game, too.

>>3824832
It's the Unity engine.

>>3824884
>>3824858
They did something right if you're so triggered that you have to camp a thread for a game you don't even play...

>>3824994
I'm pretty sure that's 70% their own incompetence 30% unity

>>3824997
They already make maps huge to encompass all the events that take place in a single adventure. They already give you exit points to skip straight from the planning room to the overland map, and so forth. The way Unity handles resources, though, means they can't have the whole game loaded into RAM at a time. Unity doesn't work like that. It just would not be technically possible for them to have everything take place in a single scene.
And the memory leak issue is a Unity problem that they do not have access to fix. They literally don't have the source code of the engine to be able to fix the memory leaks.
You're eager to find someone to blame, blame Unity. It's a decrepit and clunky engine with poor support. It's used because it's cheap to license and easy for developers to use or add onto. But it's also an engine that has developed its bad reputation for decades.

Trust me. It's Unity. Of all Owlcat's flaws, this particular one is not on them.

>>3824995
Nah it's cause I tried playing it with a fever and got confused and did not uninstall outright, kinda like when I sometimes go into arguments about politics on 4chan when tired even though I should know better about arguing with schizos/16 year olds. Now I got a pile of work to go through that I don't want to be doing so I procrastinate + some lingering mind fog on top. I'm just not the target audience for both build/d20 autism and superficial ameripolitics in fantasy world stuff, and having a flu and trying hard to like the game made me menally hung up on this. Like, I really want a game to exist that is like this game but different, but there's no such game atm. Well, no big deal.

>>3824993
It's written fine the banter is funny the burned out bon vivant thing is ok, seeing a bunch of demons disemboweling people should have snapped him out of his ennui real fast but whatever, crpg writing is always bad the only problem is in this case there's a lot of it. None of the companions are badly written by video game or maybe even genre fiction standards.

>>3825013
>I should know better about arguing with schizos/16 year olds
You're severely lacking in self awareness, you've been spamming the thread for like two days now with your autistic rants, no one cares

>>3825009
>this particular one is not on them.
why use unity and not something better? Serbian autists writes his own shitty engine for Underrail but professional studio cant do it or atleast find a better engine that isnt duct taped monstrosity?

>>3824884
>and is ready to settle down
she's one of the few romances (the other one being the gay nigger that triggers you too) that never tries to initiate a romance, she isn't "looking to settle down" and you have to go out of your way to romance her and stop her from breaking things off

>>3825015
This is a thread titled "why wotr writing so shit" and I am posting on topic. I guess you're just used to cliched internet debate, left vs right, etc. Or maybe you hate my stream of consciousness, that's fair, I'm not willing to apply any effort itt and hope to stop posting on impulse, sooner the better.

>>3825017
Popular engine = can find proficient devs easy and develop fast vs building own engine, teaching it to devs, etc. Productive autists are expensive. Unity is otoh cheapest devs and good enough.Would be my guess. Unity in theory is fine but they probably hired bottom of barrel devs and or had poor management process - likely poor management, since you can teach an ape to optimize code.

>>3825018
It was in jest. I did not play the game attentively enough to critique chars.

>>3825017
You don't know what an engine is, and you already called Underrail's shitty... so which is it? Do you not want a shitty engine?
Owlcat chose to use Unity because it was an engine they could afford which could accomplish the goals of their design. They came into existence around the Kingmaker game. They made that one with a shoestring budget.

It's a fucking MIRACLE that Owlcat even exists and accomplished three RPGs in so short a span of time. That kind of thing just does not fucking happen in game development. This is insane INSANE levels of success.

And they could not have done it if they chose an expensive engine... or tried to develop their own. Which would have been even more expensive. They were able to do all of this because Unity was affordable and lots of developers are familiar with it, so it's not expensive to find developers who can use it.

You need to learn to be more respectful when you don't know what you're talking about.

>>3825013
Little boy, no one fucking cares. Shut up.

>>3824884
>>3824858
well put kek

I can't figure out why the Tabletop Tweaks mod isn't working. All the feats and stuff just don't fucking work and I have no idea why. Is it interacting with some other mod somehow? None of the ones I have installed are related to those feats or anything, and TTT is the only mod that's introducing the feats I've looked at anyway.

>>3825248
>. Is it interacting with some other mod somehow?
Sometimes a mod can break and fuck an unrelated mod.
Enable only TTT and whatever requisites it might have.
Also, make sure it's up to date. Are you using ModFinder?

>>3825295
Yes, yes and yes. But it looks like there's a whole slew of reports about broken shit on their github, so it's not just me. It looks like the entire fucking mod needs the author to update it.

>>3825299
Well shit. That sucks, I was planning on starting a new power trip game with as much cool shit as I could mod in.
What are some things that are not working specifically? Let me see if I can replicate that.

>>3825301
Looks like none of the feats it adds are working, though they can selected and still eat that feat slot they don't do anything. It's a good bet that anything else from the mod will still cost build currency without doing anything. Their issues reports are cluttered with a lot of unaddressed bugs. Just completely avoid the whole fucking mod and anything else that author has been part of. There's a lot of other mods, but honestly toybox is the only one you actually need.

>>3825038
You talk in a deliberate condescending way like an ugly fucking crossdressing male desperate to get even for being bullied for your faggot behaviour in school. Get over your gay little trauma, everyone on earth recognizes "toxic masculinity" is left wing politics because you only criticize men for their toxic behaviour while ignoring women's toxic behavior (to the point you fags pretend "misandry" doesnt exist, eh tranny?). The formatting on your text vomit reeks of GPT, you're really not clever at all. This is why everyone is sick of your faggot shit. Its not our fault youre a failed male who hates other men interrupting your gay little AGP fantasy.
>abloooo pol waaaaahhhh waaahh
No one wants troons either faggot.

I'm playing kingmaker and it's so much worse than wotr in every way. None of the companions are remotely interesting and the pacing sucks and requires me to wait in camp for months until new main quest pops up.

>>3825317
I found the luls between major events fun and relaxing. I would make sure to explore as much of the map possible, finish any sidequest that got layed over because of the time constraints and upgrade my barony/leaders. I'm prob in the minority though. The slow pace just sits well with me compared to the nonstop action of wotr.

>>3825378
Most of the points in the map I've explored were pretty worthless and offered no exp or loot. Most of the time it's just a cave with one monster

>>3825317
Are you sure you're playing Kingmaker? Owlcat's Pathfinder 1e Kingmaker RPG? When you load into the game's menu, what does the logo look like?

>>3825569
There are literally no points of interest on the map which do not have specific equipment loot as a reward for clearing the PoI. Each and every map you go to there is something there to get. Early in the game it might be out-of-depth but generic items like belts of strength or something, but considering how powerful such items are they're still incredibly overpowering when you get them. Mid-game, all the PoIs have unique gear you can do puzzles and quests to get on top of the generic equipment and consumables that you'll find scattered around. It's those uniques which you can form a character's entire playstyle around. Like there's a scimitar that you can find which Regongar will still be using at level 20 because it's literally the best 1H weapon in the entire game...

>>3825573
That's literally false lol. A cave with wolves had nothing to offer me. A cave with wyvern had nothing to offer to me. Like you said most of the items you get on will be with you till the end of the game which makes exploring past that point worthless.

>>3825585
Sounds like you didn't actually look around the map or your perception sucks.

>>3825569
I remember a few locations like this but usually you were awarded some decent gear. Maybe bad perception? Another thing I remember is you have to kill these mini bosses throughout the world and it opens up a barrier that lets you fight a big sideboss that gives some really good gear.

Regardless kingmaker is far from perfect but to me it's more of the classic fantasy lord of the rings compared to the anime levels of fantasy of wotr. I love them both for what they are and would just be happy for another pathfinder game though I doubt we would ever see it.

>>3825649
If you want another PF1e game, you have to petition Paizo and Owlcat both for it. Currently the company that owns the IP of PF1e hasn't got any contracts or licenses for games to be developed using it. Because they're trying to move people to PF2e because they're afraid Hasbro might try to legally fuck them. Because Hasbro's fucking with the OGL was why PF2e underwent a complete overhaul re-release recently, at great expense.

>>3825649
>I remember a few locations like this but usually you were awarded some decent gear
Dude what gear do I get from beating the frog cave? You're just straight up lying. The only gear I got was from main quest zones and traders

>>3825779
The one from the start of the game? It has a +1 flaming nunchuck. Even if you don't have anyone that can use it, it probably sells for an okay bit.

>>3825779
>>3825785
Damn. So... we weren't lying. Look at that. Turns out that turning up your nose at the loot you get doesn't mean you didn't get loot. So... maybe if liars didn't project so hard they wouldn't get caught out in their lies.
And by the way, +1 flaming weapons are CRAZY out of depth in value for that stage of the game.

>>3825785
>>3825801
I literally couldn't care less about 2000 gold considering that later in the game every mob drops loot that's more expensive. That's a pathetic amount even for low levels and doesn't justify effort I put in to fighting it since I never got any substantial benefits that would help me later.

>>3825858
+1 flaming is 8,000 gold, not 2k.
How much healing do you think that equates to? Reminder that WBL for level 4 is only 6k... meaning literally that one item is more than your entire character's equipment and consumables should be worth if you added them all up. All the spells in your spellbook, all the potions on your belt, your armor, your weapon, everything. WBL for level 5 is only 10.5k...

>>3825859
>+1 flaming is 8,000 gold, not 2k.
You're retarded check wiki at least

>>3825861
Also money is not that important since every vendor sells complete dogshit and I have 30k stored after buying everything I need. A couple of extra XP points or quests could have come in handy but no, I get the same amount of XP I could have gotten from fighting random encounters which makes exploring worthless and unrewarding

>>3825866
You probably want to have at least 400k by Rushlight tournament to buy the ring of circumstances. Also, to get to the final room in the tomb east of your capital, you actually need to explore literally every location in the game.

>>3825378
I felt the same way. I enjoyed the break that managing the kingdom granted me. The only time I found it bad was near the end of the game was I actually, unironically had nothing to do and just had to click next day like thirty+ times.

>>3804025 (OP)
I think that was one of the things that put me off. I liked the premise of the game, liked the aesthetic but man is it bland.
Really don't understand how people laud it so much, guess we just good games starved

>>3804025 (OP)
Its written by ESL SJW retards. Nothing has any nuance or character because they can barely put the words together

>>3826245
Vanilla is the most popular flavor in the world. It's subtle and compliments lots of things. You notice when it's missing even if you don't necessarily notice when it's there.

Kingmaker is like that. It's a scoop of high quality vanilla ice cream. It's not a wild and wacky hodge podge of over-flavored neon. It's simple, comforting and foundational. It's the fundamentals done right and treated with respect.

How do you find the difference between two pastry chefs? You get them to make something simple like vanilla creme. A master's technique will show and the amateur can't disguise mistakes with distractions.

Kingmaker is a masterpiece, even if you lack the attention span or tranquility to appreciate it.

>>3826285
KMbro, he was talking about WotR
>Kingmaker is a masterpiece
LMAO

>>3826288
mmm. Fair enough, wrong thread. But I'll say the same thing about Wrath, so, I ain't apologizing.

>>3804025 (OP)
I really hate how most of the characters don't feel like they're taking the situation seriously, they almost always come up with some kind of joke, or unintentionally humorous dialogue

>>3815237
in a world where there is literally black and white forces you dont need to stop and think if you should smite the black forces.

>>3804025 (OP)
the Pathfinder Universe is woke shit. Youre welcome.

>>3804025 (OP)
Ember is such a terrible character. Her motivations have no correlation with her backstory and it’s baffling that not a single crusader has issue with taking a literal child with no combat experience with you as a companion. The top priority should be sending her to an orphanage in Mendev, or better yet back to Kyonin, not fighting demons. It’s hard to take her radically merciful liberal enlightenment perception of sentient creatures seriously when the entire game involves mowing down hordes of demons, cultists, and the occasional bandit who have nothing but inherently bad intentions. Even Staunton shows that redemption just isn’t an option for some people because they don’t want it. Arue was only able to be “redeemed” by forced correction over hundreds of years by Desna, making Ember’s atheism completely absurd because powerful good alined gods are the only beings capable of changing the nature of outer beings long term.

>>3827337
>Arue was only able to be “redeemed” by forced correction over hundreds of years by Desna
To Worldwound is barely a hundred years old retard

>>3827285
Yes pathfinder setting is very bad and halfassed. Even the names are crap. Pharasma more like fartasma. Rovagug is like something a baby says. Coo coo rovacoo. Meanwhile fr is full of gems like Acererak or Blibdoolpoolp

Even pathfinder abyss is dogshit. FR abyss is like, "this layer is just mane demons pressed together", pathfinder is like, "this layer is a totally mature layer full of mature content such as demon brothel that's just like a normal one but with demons use it to exolore mature themes such as making a girl kiss you everywhere"

>>3815237
You assume it's cause of skin color but in reality all those characters are legit insufferable. Regill is universally loved everywhere but in a normal rpg he'd be the cringiest companion.

>>3827473
>FR abyss
The Abyss isn't a FR thing, tardboy.

>>3827476
Pf and fr have different layers.

>>3827486
The Abyss is just an outer plane of chaos and evil dating from way back in early D&D, it's not setting specific. It's basically infinite and can have whatever the person using it wants there.

>go to v, always a pathfinder thread up with the same purple pic
>go to vrpg, same
>go to vg, same
The amount of astroturfing this piece of shit company does on 4chan is insane. But I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from russian subhumans

>>3827337
>"Don't rely on gods"
>has personal protection from a god

I agree, I think she would work better if she actually understood what is going around her. Choosing to try to help and seek the good in people and suffering from those naive ideas and despise that still continue. Instead you have someone who doesn't understand what is going on, suffering little from dumbass decisions and still be preachy.

>>3804025 (OP)
Someone have cool Portraits pack? There was one big in nexus and now there is mostly some trash and ai slop left/

>>3827337
Ember is insane, which explains her behaviour. The knight commander is into lolis, which explains why the loli stays. It's not that complicated.

>>3827337
>by forced correction over hundreds of years
She was only given memories and it wasn't hundreds of years, if it was, the WW would have been closed by the time she got out of the dream.

>>3827497
Bro, every single cRPG gets "box art thread" posted constantly. Seek medication.

>>3827505
the protection doesn't do much, Ember can still die, Andoletta doesn't give her plot armor, it's no different than gods giving their clerics or paladin powers

>>3827490
Yes you can add any layer to abyss but out of the box pf abyss layers are lame

>>3827473
Why don't you write your own version of the Abyss as a setting? You can go into as explicit detail as you wish about all the wicked and vile things that take place there. You could spend pages and pages lavishing descriptions about one specific act of baby corpse rape which is considered by the demons of that layer to be introductory consent play 101 for freshmen.

I eagerly await news of your publishing deal.

>>3827474
What are you even going on about? Regill is an unpopular companion. He's only used in evil playthroughs and not even by most of those since he's hyper-lawful and the Devil path sucks. Lich replaces him with a better martial. He's incompatible with the Demon or Swarm paths.

You assume that skin color has nothing to do with it while you're talking on 4chan, and you accidentally revealed that you love the pale literally-bleached ultra-fascist....

Regill isn't popular. You're confusing your personal affinity for the Nazi-coded douchebag with what the playerbase actually says. You're probably pretty young so you don't really understand how vapid and comedic Regill's trope is. To adults, he is immediately obvious. The aesthetic of extreme utilitarian competence and brutal pragmatism is an exhausted cliché. It was so overused in cartoons of the Nazis in the last century that nowadays it's like having a Wild West gunslinger cowboy pop up in full Roy Rogers tasseled regalia.

The profound failures of authoritarian-utilitarian moral philosophy have been thorough examined and understood for almost a century at this point.

This is why Regill is insufferable: because he is a cliché Nazi. He's kitsch. Not camp. Because he completely lacks any self-awareness and has nothing new to say about his trope. He is just the simplest and most comedic iteration of the idiom because, frankly, it's just not possible for a Lawful-Evil-Stupid companion to be interesting or compelling. The entire concept is just a paper thing aesthetic stylization of a worldview subscribed to exclusively by forty year old losers.

>>3827740
I don't even like Regill because I think he's a writer's pet but saying that he's not popular has to be the most retarded thing I've seen here, and man I've seen a LOT of retarded shit

>>3827729
I don't have to becuase it's all in FR, you acerbic dummy.

>>3827740
Wew reading comprehension

>>3827744
FR is fucking gay, kid.

>>3827742
>and man I've seen a LOT of retarded shit
Based anon who finished BG3

>>3827754
Say that again bitch

>>3827754
Thought so, bitch

>>3827798
>>3827792
Took 40 minutes to come up with THIS response, by the way.

Also, the >>3827754 anon is right, FR is gay.

>>3827800
Yeah... Cause I was busy banging you're mom. #PoopfindersRekt

>>3827740
Why did you decide that this thread is the best outlet for your Current Year propaganda?

>>3827740
>incompatible with Demon and Swarm
Every single companion you have will leave you and possibly die on Swarm because it’s designed as a loner path. Don’t need friends if your body consists of hundreds of thousands of locusts and can multiply yourself, and that’s kind of the point. Regill will stay on Demon path but you lose his trust and it makes the hellknight trial harder to pass (but to be fair, so does every mythic he disapproves of so this isn’t unique to demon). The only mythic path that causes Regill to outright leave the party due to pure aversion is Trickster, and even then you can convince him to stay with enough persuasion. I kept him around on my Trickster run because making the gnome mad was funny. I think the only run I’ve outright executed him on sight was Azata because his motives were too polar, little different than banishing a devil.

>>3804025 (OP)
Tips on how to beat Areelu on unfair?

>>3827792
>>3827754

>>3824441
I think Warhammer's grim, mythic tone kinda inoculates it against "millenial writing," that reddit vibe, or whatever you want to call that thing that causes everyone to talk like they're in a contemporary sitcom or Marvel film. The writers know they have to respect that tone and that to maintain it they have to give the majority of characters a voice and a bearing that is very unlike what a modern person would have. You see the same effect in From Software's games.

Whereas I think stuff like D&D has never really settled on a specific tone, so it's inevitable you'd eventually get games like BG3 with Astarion mentioning he's "not a fan" of something and other stuff like that.

In the case of Owlcat's Pathfinder games though I'm pretty sure this is the tone Paizo actually intends for Pathfinder so you can't blame them, they were just being faithful to the source material to write it that way. I definitely prefer their 40k work though. I've really never liked any D&D or adjacent stuff, it just never feels immersive.

I love Kingmaker and finished it twice. Imho it felt like a massive modern Baldur’s Gate 1.

But I can never stick with Wrath of the Righteous. Every time I try I drop it after 12 hours. It just bores me. The companions drown you in endless exposition, and every single one of them feels like a special retard. Honestly only BG3 is worse in that regard.

>>3828114
Too scared to say it again, Pigfinder

>>3828233
>and every single one of them feels like a special retard.
It's the most high stakes, high level and epic campaign in pathfinder. Of course your companions shouldn't be just some random hobos on the street.

>>3828233
>But I can never stick with Wrath of the Righteous. Every time I try I drop it after 12 hours. It just bores me. The companions drown you in endless exposition, and every single one of them feels like a special retard. Honestly only BG3 is worse in that regard.
WotR demands to be played as a character who is invested in crusading and for whom slaying six gorillion demons is its own reward. That said, like all modern RPGs, the companions are all garbage and it should be played with a custom party of generics.

>>3828242
Bro, defending FR to attack PF is like saying a leather cuck chair is maniler than an upholstered one.

>>3804025 (OP)
>Why is the black paladin talking like a black city girl in google ad?

Because she used to be a literal ghetto rat living off of thievery.

>>3828378
God damn. Set them on fire. Set those roasties on fucking fire.

>>3828413
No its because the writer is some dumbass whose only contact with "culture" were california TV shows and movies and tumblr.

>>3828513
No, because it was the same guy who wrote Ekundayo, Sosiel, and Trever, neither of which are Basketball Americans.

She IS supposed to be a reformed hoodrat that found religion.

>>3827621
how many clerics or paladin survive being burned at a stake?

>>3828378
You would know, cuck

>>3804025 (OP)

I kinda found the whole gameplay loop kind of shit, the game by default is so over the top, i could barely get throu the character customization and uninstalled the game 20 minutes in after witnessing that dogshit... Go play Baldurs Gate 3 or Divinity Original Sin at least they are respecting the time and effort a player puts in

>>3828833
Yeah, I kinda know more than you about everything there is in the world. Just built different.

>>3828918
Yes yes, like a cuck chair, I get it

>>3828783
Probably most of them if someone came in and saved them fast enough, as it happened to her

>>3828834
>i could barely get throu the character customization and uninstalled the game 20 minutes in after witnessing that dogshit... Go play Baldurs Gate 3
Bruh

>>3804025 (OP)
Dude if you thought WOTR was too gay, woke and whimsical, I can't wait for you to try BG3.

>>3828982
That one has good everything else to make up for it, unlike Owlcat's games.

>>3828938
I have been on the internet, yes. Are you pretending you don't know that meme as well? Ya got served with my superior wit as you did an Us vs. Them with equally faggy tabletop settings, and now you're crying. Sad.

>>3828982
There's literally like only two or three non-heterosexual characters in the entire game. There are hundreds of characters. More than half of the romance options are strictly heterosexual and they will tell you so. The only reason the non-cis-het characters stand out is literally because they are the only ones. And the two lesbians are already with each other and they're not looking for any extras so what's the big fucking deal? And the one gay man is kind, competent and thoughtful and if you don't explicitly tell him you're attracted to him then you won't even know he's gay. So what's the big fucking deal?

Are you afraid to see two girls hug, anon?

>>3828987
So you admit you haven't played any of the four games in question. Don't comment until you do.

>>3828991
>non-cis-het
lmao

>>3828991
>non-cis-het
Go back

>>3828990
The joke is that you are built different from normal humans becuase you are built like a cuck chair.

>>3828996
>>3828993
I'd tell you to get a job, but we all know AI isn't gonna take anyone's job. Let alone the job of a 4chan NPC attempting to pretend they aren't samefagging.

>>3828987
>coomer slop
>5e gameplay
>good
You could have just said that you're retarded.

>>3828991
>non-cis-het
The fuck does that even mean?

Damn, WOTR companions look like THAT?

>>3828939
so how come her father didn't survive the same burning
during camping she also mentions how people around her die of diseases and illnesses while she doesn't even get sick

>>3829181
projecting this hard

I haven't played in a few months and got the urge.
I remember this being a lot more fun. I'm save scumming trying to get a rest camouflage to roll higher than 5. I have hit the brick wall that is random enemies having a spell resistance in the high 30s, and I'm smack bang in the middle of the portion where wolfij just fucking leaves and takes half my damage with him.

>>3830112
Maybe you should lower difficulty rather than bashing your head against the wall. And your casters really need to stack spell penetration and caster levels hard to overcome spell resistance. In WotR, you either go all-in on offensive magic, or you don't go in at all.

Also, if Woljif really was your main damage dealer, I'm curious how you have built Ember, Arueshalae, Wenduag, and Nenio.

>>3830196
Wenduag is the other half of my damage.
I have nenio, ember, or arue

>>3830199
Well, Arue should deal almost as much damage as Wenduag and offer some extra utility too, so maybe she can replace Woljif. In any case, you should very soon get him back too, since you must have cleared Drezen by now.

Wish me luck bros. I will try this game for the third time now. Any good single classes for a run? Paladin maybe?

>>3830223
>Any good single classes for a run? >Paladin maybe?
Perfect. No archetype even, just plain 20 pal. Take the mount and go sword and board shield bashing.

>>3830223
>>3830224
Paladin is more of a support class tbqhwy, would achieve more with ranger or cavalier.

>>3830223
Melee Sorcerer

>>3830223
Druid or Hunter are by far the strongest classes in the game. Like it's not even close. Animal companions should never have been a thing in the tabletop, either.
>>3830225
You're a fucking moron trying to spread disinformation again. Paladins aren't "a support class" and that's never gonna be a meme. No one fucking cares that you got kicked out of your group after you tried to make an ultra-pacifist character and used a paladin class for it. It wasn't funny, not just because it was somehow a deep dark hidden secret truth that no one talks about except for you. It wasn't funny because it was fucking stupid as fucking fuck and no one at that table could tolerate the intensity of the cringe they felt from being around you. You're not being invited back. Your usernames (and annotations about your unique mannerisms and game design opinions) were added to the community blacklist so no one with access to that blacklist is gonna let you sit in on their games either. And paladins are still not a support class.

>>3830376
In the context of this specific computer game paladins are most definitely a support class, their purpose being nothing more than to cast mark of justice. Note that this does bring tremendous value to the party and I'd consider them more or less essential.

>>3830224
Do lances still crit for uber damage while mounted in this game? Or did that little tabletop gimmick not make it in? Is it a cavalier only thing?
Pallies are definitely strong. Having access to use lots of divine scrolls (not all, because they do not use the cleric/oracle spell list) is nice, but they also do well with charisma so they can get functional UMD if they need it.
TWF with shield bashing is cute but on a paladin it might be really starved for feats and ability scores to manage it (you need Dex to qualify to take TWF feats). For at least the first ten levels, you'd be better off using Shield scrolls with UMD, IMO. And there aren't really any good feats to make shields more valuable for taking up that hand slot compared to a real weapon. Use a shield spell and then just go for mythic vital strike with mythic crits and cleave with a greatsword (enlarge person). More efficient on ability scores and feats and it won't spread your stats too thin, so it'll let you keep your charisma up for saves, smite and UMD while still pumping strength.
If you're solo, you don't need to move fast (everything will come to you) so that'll save you some mythic slots.

>>3830377
No.

>>3830377
Absolutely correct. That single ability made me cart Seelah around.

>>3830386
>>3830382
I did forget to mention the horse as another positive aspect, but that is not exclusive to the paladin and there are several classes where both the character AND the pet would be better (e.g. ranger, cavalier, oracle etc.)

>>3830376
>You're a fucking moron trying to spread disinformation again
You're talking with different people, I was the one who said this originally, I just stopped replying because you're clearly autistic

>>3830377
>In the context of this specific computer game paladins are most definitely a support class, their purpose being nothing more than to cast mark of justice
Stopped reading here

>>3824466
Sosiel was black?

>>3830381
It’s been a while since I played WotR (at launch) but iirc lances weren’t implemented, though cavaliers (maybe just gendarmes?) do get the charge bonus for… longspears? Cavaliers are great, I had one as my right hand man. Front line was vanilla pally and gendarme cavalier on horses, and an enlarged two-handed fighter with a fauchard in the second rank.

Paladins are definitely feat starved, however I enjoyed going into the shield bashing line of feats because all those extra attacks end up applying smites eventually. And you can take the feats to use your shield to defend your mount even further, adding to thematic tankiness and defense. Plus, you’re encouraged to go sword and board due to Radiance.

>>3804025 (OP)
I think the game makes a bit of a rough first impression if you're sensitive to this sort of thing. Seelah having a literal "Well, THAT just happened" line, the Azata crew, Lann's jokes, etc. all feel kinda targeted at the crowd who are fans of shit like Critical Role or other live-play D&D series - it's that exact brand of humour and writing, and you cannot avoid it at first.

But the upside is that if you avoid the two mythic paths most associated with that stuff (trickster and azata) you pretty rapidly get companions clearly not intended for that crowd who you can shuffle into your party and the tone is generally less pandering to that audience.

>>3817352
>witch, wizard, sorcerer, skald, bloodrager and inquisitor are the deadweight classes
witch is by no means useless, mythic abilities let you make it a really great nuking class with respectable enough survivability. skald has a few good builds too, ESPECIALLY court poet if you go all in on a caster party with a pally/cavalier tank.

>>3817352
Wait, isn't skald good as fuck for support? I don't see how that's deadweight.

>>3830540
I played with custom mercs on core when the game came out and I had a pure class wizard controller/blaster in my backline and he fucked shit up good.

>>3817352
Primalist Bloodrager is literally Barbarian but better. As in it's all upside and no downside. A strict upgrade. Pure casters are also monsters for CC and instakills. It sounds like you just don't know how to build them.
>>3830607
Skald is the best support class in the game because it can give the entire party Pounce, which ends most encounters on the first round.

>>3830777
>Skald is the best support class in the game because it can give the entire party Pounce, which ends most encounters on the first round.
Winning fast against trash mobs is not much of a selling point, since every composition can destroy trash mobs. Some faster, some slower. The question is whether you can beat the tough mobs. This is the same reason why cleave is actually one of the worst feats in the game.

>>3830843
Party wide Pounce one-rounds bosses because every character gets to make a full attack on round one and just fucking nuke them before they can do anything.

>>3830777
I've noticed that people who talk about dead weight and trap options aren't very good at playing games. Weird thing.

I have no idea how people use melee on unfair unless you are popping that cleric domain spell that gives you +15 attack bonus and using mark of justice on every significant fight. I remember having some enchantment disabling magic setup that I used for most battles and the melee was just there to kill helpless enemies.

>>3830607
He's wrong about literally all of these classes except maybe inquisitor.

>>3830936
You just stack buffs. It's not difficult to get your attack bonus WELL above the 85ish AC that most of the late game bosses have.

>>3817352
this retard is seriously listing out the best classes in the game as "deadweight" lmao
wizard skald and bloodrager are hard meta and let you cheese the fuck out of every single encounter

Alright this masks dlc is ok atleast it gives some good items and shit

>>3830936
there is a curve to figuring out how to build characters, at first I fell the same but right now my magus has a +94 to hit and targets touch AC

>>3831008
>actually liking stat inflation
Fuck you

>>3804025 (OP)
didn't Chris Avellone write for Kingmaker because at the time he was still cancelled and Owlcat was still a new foreign dev studio that wasn't woke-infected yet?
that would explain the difference in writing quality between Kingmaker and WotR.

>>3831224
oh wait, yes. that's the exact answer.
just took 458 posts...
/thread

99% of video games are poorly written, this one is extra bad though.

>>3831008
94? Are you modding and cheating the shit out of that? Are you somehow a level 40 Legendary path and you looked at your character sheet while you had True Strike running?

>>3831471
Legend, it can go much higher. This is without true strike or 35 BAB

>>3831542
>+1 from size
You will always be a manlet.

>>3804025 (OP)
>Man, fuck this shit, I just hope AI can do a better job by 2030.
Good morning saar!

>>3831233
You haven't played enough games if you think this game is egregious, I'd call it serviceable.

>>3817355
It does because niggers are allowed to steal and chimp out. The law doesn't apply to them.

>>3832115
Man, you're really bored on the weekends, huh? Poor kid.

>>3831989
Don't engage with the troll. It only validates them. They aren't being sincere. They'd say anything sucked. Because it's not actually about the game. They're just acting out and expressing their dysfunctional, directionless bitterness about their own personal failures and defects of character.
Don't let some immature idiot infant gaslight you with their whining and wailing. The game's good. The writing is good. Period.

>>3831542
You're level 31 with a Dex mod +23??? That's a Dex score of 56, anon. That's not mathematically possible without just flat-out cheating with Toybox unless you've found some bug that lets you exploit stacking modifiers that should not be stacking together.

The summary is that you're cheating so none of those numbers matter.

>>3832339
And we're ignoring how silly it is in the first place. There's nothing in the game you need a to-hit modifier greater than about 40 - 50 or so to auto-hit. A to-hit of like 60 guarantees you auto hit on all your iteratives if you don't roll a 1, and there's a mythic for even that. So... And let's not forget that you can one-round everything in the game just with non-optimized damage per swing. If you work on it, you can vital strike for like five hundred with just one auto-success attack.
>>3831542
So you're trying a little bit too hard there, anon, even while cheating.

>>3832339
That doesn't sound impossible, but it does sound like the upper limit of it
So what's the assumed score for a specialized stat on a legend? Start at like 18 for argument's sake between racial scores and not wanting to be too much of a min-max nightmare, 5 ability points from level, 4 from legend bonus, 5 more from legend levels, inherent 2 (assuming not shifter), alchemtical 2 (assuming not alchemist/mutation warrior), 8 more from enhancement bonus (assuming not a trickster), maybe 2 more untyped from that necklace
That's 46, or an 18 modifier. I don't think getting that higher is impossible (more specialized starting stats/race, certain classes, master shapeshifter for one of the two mythic ranks, random shit I forgot because I haven't played in a while etc)

>>3832335
>anyone who doesn't like my shitty game for autistic retards is a troll
Peak cope.

>>3832492
YUH IT DO BE COPE, DOH! STR8 DOPE COO BE TRIPPAYUHN~! YUHHHHH! COPE PEAK SKIBIDI OHIO RIZZLER FRFR NO CAP PEAK SKIBIDI!!!! FR!!!`!~~!!!!2!1`!!!!

>>3832408
Where are you getting a +8 enhancement bonus?

>>3832735
Inevitable excess lets you get items that do that in the base game if you beat one of the enemies. There might be another one added in some other dlc, but fuck if I remember the details by now. I did miss that he's only level 31, so maybe that makes it harder/impossible idk

>>3832741
Isn't that DLC only accessible like literally right before the final boss fight?

>>3832837
It's not a part of the main quest at all, takes a character from right before the final boss. If you beat an optional boss on unfair in it there's 3 different loot piles throughout future playthroughs that have some OP shit in them.

>>3804025 (OP)
For kingmaker, Is Valerie or Kanerah the better romance option (Octavia is damaged goods and I'm not a poly degenerate)

>>3833426
Nyrissa.

>>3809632
>>3810195
They contracted the writing?

>>3824356
NTA but I disliked Daeran because his voice acting was horrendous. I wish there were mods that selectively disabled the voice overs in Owlcat games, so I can mute Daeran in this and that token psyker in Rogue Trader but keep all the other voices.

>>3833426
When you finally win Valerie over, she will gracefully inform you of her past escapades too.

>>3833426
The sisters.

>>3833426
Kanerah obviously, and her sister
>>3833546
If he cared he wouldn't be trying to romance the gold digger whore

>>3833426
There are no good romances in any Owlcat game. Best bet is to skip the process.

>>3833593
Romances:
>mongrel slut who has children with you
>slut who prefers to have children with random farmers over you
>mongrel slut and her sister.

>>3833608
>>mongrel slut who has children with you
You mean Octavia? She doesn't have kids with you, none of them do, Owlcat didn't first include children for the romance endings until WotR's final DLC
>>mongrel slut and her sister
I know, they're great

>>3833610
>She doesn't have kids with you,
It's like you didn't even read the ending slides.

>>3833597
Cassie in Rogue Trader is good.

>>3833614
Can you post it?

>>3833608
>>slut who prefers to have children with random farmers over you
This was such bad characterization. Like, the most Law and Duty focused character, the one who is intensely aware of your position, doesn't want to immediately secure an heir for you? Bullshit, she'd be demanding to be impregnated and take the job very seriously. Owlcat are such hacks.

>>3833597
Uh, no? Heinrix is a Victorian icon of ultra-classic Mr. Darcy mode old school toxic masculinity and honestly I'm here for it since it's so old school it's new again. Sosiel's romance + personal story is probably the most uniquely normal treatment of a gay man in any video game ever made to this point in time. I don't even known of any movies that treat a gay man like a normal person with such complete success. Solomorne feels... ok. Not like knock your socks off, but it's interesting to see men depicted with realistic PTSD who show real vulnerability about it instead of the usual Hollywood "yeah, shit happened but I'm too stoic and drunkenly cool to actually, like, be affected by it".

>>3833638
I'm speaking for normal people, of course, not aberrations. Sorry, for the confusion your insertion into hetero spaces is causing you, but you should probably try reading the room.

>>3833597
Indeed. Just stick to the mission even if you have to carry some freaks for the sake of it.

Is Legend caster still bad? Like you can't get caster level 40, its 20 in two different spellbooks?

>>3804025 (OP)
>t. tastelet

>>3833640
Yeah you're so cis-het that you literally cannot enjoy any cis-het romances in any of the games currently available to play... Are the straights ok? Like. Are you doin' ok? Are you?
But since you're new here and you haven't had time to read the room, you should know that 4chan is definitely not a hetero space and has never been. The sooner you realize that your mom and dad are fucking stupid and that there is no Jesus, the sooner you can get started on your adulthood. And that'll start when you finally have to admit that the world is a lot bigger than your little bubble at church.
There are even... black people (!!!)... here. Like right here with us reading this thread right now!

>>3833912
ok chatgaypt

>>3833814
Casters are bad in general. Maybe early game a few cleric buffs are useful but you just flat-out do not need casters past level 12 or so. Especially if you keep your UMD up in case you really really really need a restoration for some reason I can't fathom.
Caster level is not technically capped. There are ways to boost your caster level above your class level with feats and items, but it's basically just +1 and +2 at a time, usually in a single specific spell you select or a school. But you're never gonna see a caster level above 30, there just aren't enough bonuses to do that.
The more hard-coded problem you'll run into is that the spells themselves are hard-capped. The code literally specifies a caster level cap on the damage calculation. Fireball will never do more than 10d6 damage, period. If you want to get more damage from it, you have to add on metamagic feats which stack some dice into it. But it's not worth it to use a feat for that since that will raise the effective spell level slot it occupies (extremely EXTREMELY fucking stupid thing to do, but this is the legacy of D&D and that can't really be changed in the current legal framework that binds PF1e), so use a metamagic rod for that. But if you have a rod for it, then apply the rod to a higher level spell instead.
More spellbooks does mean you get more spells. All your Abundant Casting mythic abilities apply to all your spellbooks separately. So if you're cleric / wiz you get +4 spell slots of all spell levels for each book. Will you ever need that many spells? I mean, since everything is gonna auto-succeed on all saves, yeah you might be spending every turn casting just hoping for one mob to crit fail a save.
But, again, casters suck shit because martials will one-round everything in the game. And an optimized martial will kill the ENTIRE combat on round 1...

>>3833913
We can all tell you're underage, just so you know.

>>3833919
nice cope

>>3833919
>We
Stop speaking for everyone here

>>3833426
The only worthwhile option to romance in KM is Nyrissa.

>>3833923
>literal villain of the game you see once every few years who is constantly talking shit and trying to kill you
Very believable romance

>>3833426
Fuck Octavia, I wish another party member could function as the controller aside from her, but she's basically required if you aren't playing with mercs.

>>3820127
Arue doesn't give you kids

>>3833546
Valerie is one of the worst companions Owlcat has ever concocted. All she does is bitch about “waa men give me too much attention waa” like a 13 year old who just discovered the existence of social media, and all her complaints about not understanding art is also just complete bullshit lies because she embroiders constantly and loves it. Her entire quest line is just being spoiled and having tantrums with no concern for anything outside of herself. She abandoned and betrayed the will of her parents instead of completing her paladin training all because of vain self absorbed rubbish. Her motivations are entirely chaotic and severely lacking in discipline yet somehow her alignment is lawful neutral. Not to mention her stat distribution is comically terrible, her strength is terrible for a fighter and her idiocy prevents her from access to good feats. Her awful stats make her a liability in camping too because she has no skills to work with. There’s no reason to ever have this cunt in the party.

>>3833924
Redeemed through my dick, as all monsters are.

>>3833923
The canonically psychotic alien plant that is obsessed with not just killing you but torturing you as much as possible before killing you? The one who canonically fucked literally every creature with a penis in the surrounding eight hundred mile radius continuously over the last thousand years or more? And who knows how many before that because she's an eternal Fey alien that sees you as nothing but a momentary amusement?

What was in that wine, indeed.

>>3833920
>>3833921
You're done, samefag.

>>3833946
>The one who canonically fucked literally every creature with a penis in the surrounding eight hundred mile radius continuously over the last thousand years or more?
This is quite literally never stated nor implied, most you get is a small reference to her (disappeared, most likely dead) husband from the tabletop but it never comes up again
Cuckniggers, to this day, are still trying huh

>>3833814
Nothing will ever benefit from 20 extra levels with normal full progression (not epic progression with lower attack gains, no new BAB attacks etc) more than a martial class ever could, but I think there's ways to have prestige classes give you higher caster level iirc (never tried them myself). It might require a class/mythic progression that had a combined spellbook, but I genuinely have no idea.
>>3833918
There's basically two ways to play an offensive caster. You either go hard on ray spells and metamagic and can actually do really high damage to enemies multiple times per turn, or you go hard on raising the DCs to spells that cripple or outright kill instantly. The aoe damage spells are really just for when you have a lot of mooks. Both work out fine though

>>3833937
Yes she does, added in the final DLC

>>3833960
Cavalier mounted lance charge is doing 250 damage without even critting, guaranteed hit on a 2... And they can do it all day long. And cavalier is extremely firmly understood to be one of the absolutely worst classes in the game.
No, ray spells are not "really high damage". No, they fucking are not. Lann is pushing 800 damage per round on my current playthrough with Cleaving Shot and Hurricane Bow, and he's not even particularly optimized. And it's not all dumped on one target, when one target dies, he just keeps putting the remainder on the next target. That doesn't happen with spells, and you can't Cleaving Shot with ray spells.
It's just simple fact that spells do not scale well enough to deal with the hyperinflation of wonky statblocks on creatures in this game. Anything past easy mode your caster literally only has a 10% chance of landing a spell without cheat mode mods. Absolutely unacceptable. And there is no gimmick or gotcha or super uber secret build you've discovered that somehow makes everything ok: if you're gonna attempt to claim that, you've proven that you're a fucking idiot for thinking no one else sees right through you. The game is not an obscure difficult thing for anyone to understand. We've fucking played it, anon.

It's PF1e. It's a solved game. The math is right there out in the open, even. We can all see it. This is not a tabletop environment with deflated stats and low-wealth where the utility and janky GM interpretation can change things. Casters just fucking suck in this game in a way they do not in the tabletop. It's just hard math. You can't argue about it, it's not up for debate.

I don't like it. You don't have to like it. But it's the truth. You don't like it? Go mod it. Without cheat mods, though, casters suck. Period.

>>3834029
I really don't think you know what you're talking about. Ray spells are some of the most reliable shit in the game. Ember with a sorcerer level for a fire dragon bloodline, bolster spell, and the right items does high damage while also being extremely reliable because mythic abilities trivialize energy resistance and spell resistance, and touch spells are basically rolling for 1 on all but a handful of enemies.
And I don't think it's a "secret build" it's fucking common sense.
And if you think there's only a 10% chance of landing spells when you actually focus on them, you're just fucking doing it wrong.

>>3833918
>system doesn't work if you over-bloat it
Who would have thought?

>>3834033
Reliable doesn't mean anything. You can auto-hit on a 2 against full AC anyway. Magic fucking Missile is "reliable". Why don't you use that? You don't have to pull weird stunts and wacky multiclass shennanigans to cast that. You know why no one fucking cares about magic missile? Because this isn't fucking Frieren. You aren't gonna do 400 damage in one round with fucking Zoltraak because it doesn't fucking exist in this game. And neither Scorching Ray nor Gloomblind Bolts, nor Disintegrate nor Polar Ray are worth the action economy to use six times per day when you could instead use literally any martial build to do it on a Charge for free all day long... *with* uber Cleave.

Reliable? Bitch please. That's the best thing you can think of to say about it? Open the game's options menu. Flip over to the Difficulty tab. Push it up to "easy" mode. After you beat the game on Easy, then we can talk more about all the hilariously obvious misunderstandings you have regarding the math of the game.

>>3834069
PF1e isn't bloated. It works just fine in the tabletop environment where numerical inflation is kept under control. Owlcat's encounter designers didn't know what they were doing because they have never played Pathfinder before. That's why you see a hundred mooks with 13 AC at level 10 while the boss has 28 HD, +32 saves and 52 AC when you encounter her at level 8.... It's because the encounter designers (at the very least some of them) do not actually know how the math of the system works.
Having options available is not what the term "bloat" means. Go back to your mobile idle clickers about anime lolis.

>>3834113
Exactly.
Once you pick the options, they are in your character sheet, and from there the game runs relatively smoothly in a tabletop environment.

>>3834113
But I'm talking about Owlcuck bideo gaems. Thanks for proving me right, I guess.

>>3804025 (OP)
I stopped playing when the combat lost the last of the XCOM feel and started to feel like chewing tonnes of gravel.

>>3834321
(Rogue Trader I mean)

>>3834172
You don't "win" by just declaring "thanks for proving me right, I guess". That's not how any of this works.

>>3804025 (OP)
Do you have to be evil to have viable summons as a monster tactician in Kingmaker? I loved the class in paper, but I've read that good summons just kill your own party with AOE spells.

>>3834508
I can't "win" because this isn't a competition yet, somehow, you managed to "lose". Congrats, I guess.

>>3834610
You both lost. I win.

Be sure to cash in all your winnings by the end of the thread