Anonymous
7/15/2025, 10:28:55 PM
No.3804039
[Report]
>>3804772
>>3808296
I dunno, I liked the companion writing in that game just fine. It's not stellar or anything, but it's neither overly verbose nor as "twitter playing D&D" as BG3 is. What is your gold standard for RPG writing, out of curiosity?
>Why is the black paladin talking like a black city girl in google ad?
She is Paizo's (the license holders to Pathfinder) OC, she's a street urchin who became a paladin by accident or something. I also found her fine, but if you didn't like her writing keep in mind that it was likely heavily curated by Paizo, it's not just the devs.
Anonymous
7/17/2025, 12:39:39 AM
No.3805384
[Report]
>>3804025 (OP)
I'm replaying the game to finally try and finish it (again), and most of the companions really are not that bad. Ember is amazing, Regill is exactly the way you'd expect him to be, Camelia is obviously evil but fun and the game gives you enough wiggle room to disregard that and play dumb, Ulric is good to have an old timer around, Wenduag is a subservient slug and needs to be pressed, Arue is your anime waifu with dark past, Daeran can be grating but nothing too bad and he makes up for it with his usefullness, Seelah is inoffensive and Owlcat had to include her due to her being a representative character, Woljif has an interesting concept and is a good thief example, Nenio is okay cause she doesn't talk that much and some jokes with her are actually okay. Now, Lann would be fine too if he didn't go into a minute and a half voiced self-deprecating or lambasting monologue at the worst possible moment when the game tries to be dramatic. He has some right ideas, but I get tired of his overly lengthy quips. And Sosiel is the example of a writer's pet character. Your main character can be overly affectionate with him from the get go and the lines are just too sacharine for my taste. It makes you not want to pick good lines talking to him as a good character. And also there is a Greybore.
So I think the vast majority of companions are good to fine, while I take offence with a couple of them.
Anonymous
7/30/2025, 4:33:25 PM
No.3815768
[Report]
>>3815227
There's still too far too much lefty bullshit idpol (he's a gay male stereotype breaker look at how progressive we are!, a soft cleric who'd rather paint than wage war even though we sorta did a soft male cleric in the last game too) but they are less cursed and edgelord than BG3 for sure.
>I have a pact with a demon, a tadpole in my head, a stone eye, AND daddy issues woe is me
Holy shit pick one.
>>3815237
Imagine if the industry would have some empathy for their players and slow down and examine situations where they constantly retread muh racism and related idpol subjects of bigotry under every stone and turtle shell subtexts every single game, character, and plot point.
There was a genre called fantasy at one time that was never about that, and there are better examples out there that were never that repetitive.
In fairness, it usually is White people and not the Chosen Colored People of The Left themselves doing this weird amalgamation of imaginary white guilt and lack of religious motivation to fill some void in their life for which I really don't want to be roped into being their therapist every time I play a video game.
>>3815839
Everyone is absolutely right about warpriests and the other classes you mentioned.
The drovier druid one can be pretty good if you want to go for a heavy summon build that would likely include druid CC and nukes.
Winter's child can also be very good for a summon build. I still intend to do an aeon version at some point when I'm in the mood for Wrath again. Something about ice magic and black hole spells would be pretty cool to me, and aeon abilities can work with summon pretty well, the one slight niche they have that every other path can't do better.
I don't believe any of the druid shapeshift stuff is worth a crap that I've ever seen but I don't like druids in general so I didn't get to the depths of their builds that include shifting.
Shifter classes are dedicated to it and they fall behind normal martials a lot of the time. Except Ulbrig, who has his own unique class with built in air pounce, and only after you load him up with all the dlc items that were designed for him too.
Shifters are still good enough to where you can have some fun with them. Demon path werewolf is still on my list.
Anonymous
7/30/2025, 6:31:19 PM
No.3815865
[Report]
>>3815881
>>3815839
One last comment about angel. You need to understand the difference in angel is merged spellbook class (cleric, oracle, druid) vs non merged (warpriest, paladin)
Angel is so powerful it overwhelms your class so whichever you pick you're really a merged Angel or Non-merged Angel in a way rather than your base class.
Merged is immensely more powerful than non-merged because you have these high level nukes the instant you merge books as the cast levels stack. Your progression gets easier from there as your actual class levels catch up.
It's why I prefer crusader and an archer crusader to boot just so I have something to do between ridiculously overpowered angel nukes which is shoot arrows and I have a lot of flexible buffbot slots for variety, more so than oracle (who has to pick a few spells on level up like a sorc).
Oracle/Angel is the most broken class in the game but I've favored clerics forever and I can make a crusader work better than most people's generic oracle from a guide.
Anonymous
7/30/2025, 7:20:49 PM
No.3815895
[Report]
>>3815898
>>3815883
Well non-merged as I said in the case of Angel (which isn't WP specific but any non-full divine spellbook class) is the thing that puts them behind the others.
The quickened spell thing, for me and many others, is that Owlcat PF is borderline unplayable without Bubble's buff mod.
This mod gives instant buffs unless you value the time left in your mortality so little as to watch them go off for an hour before combat every time, or worse, manually cast them, so that supercedes the warpriest quickened buff for me.
Thinking back I did rate one warpriest and that's an archer Cult Leader due to fitting perfectly into Harrim's RP and the party role I needed of Skill Monkey, but that was unique to KM/COTW maybe and I don't even think their good skill monkey package got brought into Wrath. Weapon die is ok but limited time basis buff iirc, available in better forms elsewhere etc.
If you want it for RP, or to play something actually more balanced and not broken like a full merge Angel, I respect both but for me if I play a non-merged class for RP Angel it tends to be Fire Kineticist with a flaming sword, some fireballs and fire wall in a heavy fighter gish type setup and completely different mechanics which is more fun.
I don't see warpriest as much different than Crusader thematically in the end but Crusader is better in every way and less repetitive in actual play through choice of fighting setups, buffs etc not to mention way more powerful.
One full merge class I forget about is Shaman, you can combine Shadow Shaman and make a pretty sick Archer Angel of Death build with more variety too for example (and Vital Strike abuse to boot for a great sniper/caster package).
>>3815881
I think the mistake you're making is in not understand the purpose of a hybrid class.
They are not outshined by more focused classes. They just don't outshine those focused classes in the area that focused class focuses in.
And they shouldn't. They're a hybrid class. They have a broader toolkit and the price is that they aren't the absolute best in some area that they're a hybrid of.
Warpriests are good hybrids between paladins and clerics. They don't have the raw spell progression of a cleric, and they don't have the raw martial prowess of a paladin. And that's ok.
In my opinion, the strength of a warpriest is in their versatility. They're fantastic as using divine scrolls for healing, replacing your need for a dedicated healer caster. They're fantastic at standing their ground while beating down a target they've tackled, so they can definitely replace clerics and oracles in that regard as a frontline tank who pumps heals.
For raw damage, I think sacred fist is very clearly the only good warpriest. They're also the best tanks in the game.
You can abuse enemy AI with summon shennanigans just like any divine caster. You dont' need max level spells to pop out a distraction (and that's all summons are good for in this game).
There's too much really to fit in a 4chan comment, but don't be afraid. In the optimization olympics there can only be one gold medal.
Maybe you'd be happier if you didn't compete against yourself, though. You'd be happy playing what you enjoy the process of doing more than you'd enjoy seeing the biggest damage number.
>>3817849
BuT tHeN nOboDY woUlD PlAy A hEaLer.
Was the idea, kind of.
I'm okay with the Cleric having half bab armor domains and channel energy/turn undead.
The real deal is them having access to not only full casting, but also having access to their whole spell list from the get go.
See Cloistered Clerics in 3.5e.
If the class worked more like domain priests in D&D 2e, where their spell list is a lot more constrained and thematic, that would have come out a lot better I think.
Not that I'm complaining, I get to nerf my TTRPG Cleric with some prestige classes I think are cool without feeling weak, but it is definitely a big design fuck up even before the madness of 3.5e splats became a thing.
>>3817903
I know.
But as far as I can tell, that's why they over-corrected so hard going from D&D 2e to 3e.
They gave Clerics and Druids (the two "priest" classes) so much power from the get go seemingly because nobody wanted to play "the healers" back in the day or something like that.
At least that's my impression reading old discussions and stuff.
My TTRPG Cleric is basically a divine barbarian. He grabs his sword, pops his +7 AB Law Devotion, and goes to town on enemies with Power Attack.
So yeah, not much of a healer, although being able to pop 2 daily Heal Spells is crazy useful.
>>3819467
Solomorne being bisexual is a godsend. Though his romance makes more sense with a male Rogue Trader, given that he's working through some toxic masculinity and PTSD issues. But still, it's nice to finally have a male romance with a libido and willing to show off his masculinity. Heinrix is so fucking frigid and of course Marazhai isn't actually a romance (or sexual attraction) he's just literally addicted to sensation which literally is what keeps him alive.
Although Heinrix's romance feels psychologically realistic and reasonable (given how old he actually is and his experiences / training as an inquisitor), Solomorne's feels more natural and intimate because he expresses his feelings and even when he's confused about what he's feeling or what he wants. He's an actual human man with weaknesses and faults, rather than a stoic statue who's always in control of himself.
The ease of that first lay and subsequent lays makes a lot more sense later into his romance, though I admit it did feel a bit jarring that he would just be like "ahhhhh yeah we're covered in filth and gore after a day long battle to take a ship, let's fuck and then shower!" His openness about being man with a sexual drive is very refreshing compared to men in RPGs these last twenty years. Fuck knows Heinrix literally requires a complete breakdown of his psychic body control powers before he can get it up...
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 1:03:27 PM
No.3820077
[Report]
>>3820090
>>3804025 (OP)
I genuinely really like wotr but do agree that there are some very poor decisions with the writing.
I feel like the game has a great setting for nuanced story telling, and some of it is well executed. But this is a complaint thread so lets get to it:
Everyone's favourite character Ember's public sermons are particularly fucking terrible, completely unbelievable, unconvincing trash that chatgpt could've easily improved on.
I think the idea of ember is compelling, that she is some divine, unknowing savant with limitless power to persuade.. but her actual dialog is fucking greta tier bullshit.
Seelah has 0 character development, she just doesn't go anywhere with her journey, she can't fall, she cant become more hardline, she's just whatever. She also stands by while an evil mc commits endless atrocities, when she should be an evil mc's first enemy, Wack, lazy writing. Rogue trader did it a fuck lot better when argenta is literally looking for any reason to murder the psyker in your party.
Then there's the side content. the fucking dark elf trash quest, the fallout vault quest. holy shit. having nothing would've been an improvement. fuck fan content.
Also on a personal note, I hate nenio. she's trash. fuck you.
Also maybe unrelated but as a lich I should be able to kill and res any party member as grave guard.
>>3820091
Such a bizarre thing to say. You're saying that half of the population is some form of "toxic masculinity"? Because that's not true and you'd be the very first person I've seen to suggest it.
I think what you're trying to say is that you didn't understand what was said earlier to you about it. Masculinity isn't toxic and no one said it is. They said that toxic masculinity is toxic. That's why toxic masculinity is called toxic - specifically to distinguish it from true masculinity.
And furthermore, half of the population isn't masculine. Most men aren't masculine. Being a man or being male doesn't mean you must identify as masculine, and nor does it mean you fuse your identity to any particular style of masculinity (even toxic masculinity).
You sound like you're a pretty young kid still, so it's ok if you're still trying to figure out things about life and culture and stuff. The important task for you at your age is to just be quiet about things when you are confused. Because if you're talking, you're not listening. If you're not listening, you're not learning. If you're not learning, then you're gonna remain the stupid little shit that you currently are.
And everyone here can smell you from a mile away, you stupid little shit.
Stop watching other stupid little shits on YouTube. They are not good role models, and the talking points they're poisoning you with will stand out as screaming red flags to everyone you meet.
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 3:13:31 PM
No.3820145
[Report]
>>3820149
>>3820127
Angel spells go all the way up to spell level 9. Their spellbook *can* be merged with one of your existing priest classes. This means if you have cleric, oracle, druid or shaman levels, you can merged your Angel mythic spellbook with that class in order to use your class's spell slots to cast those Angel spells. Notice that you cannot merge it with non-full-caster divine classes (inquisitor, paladin, hunter, ranger, warpriest). Angel spells can be extremely strong and are definitely worth casting compared to any other divine spell you could put in that slot. You do NOT *have to* merge your mythic spellbook with one of your class spellbooks, though...
Other than that, their other features don't depend on your class.Their main features are that they summon various kinds of angels generally increasing in power as you gain ranks. They also get a buff that basically makes weapon attacks do holy damage and other "rider" effects. But you can get mythic traits that apply these bonuses to your group so you don't have to be the one making the attacks yourself.
In general, druid is a difficult class to do with Angel due to alignment issues (if you go to Law-Good, you lose your druid powers until you Atone to shift back to an allowed Alignment). Sosiel is an extremely good Cleric companion, and Daeran is already set up as a healbot Oracle. Shaman is an *incredibly* powerful class, and although you start the game with Camellia, she's hyper-ultra-super evil and not really compatible with an Angel playthrough.
So although there's not really a strong reason to avoid having two clerics or oracles on the team, you might want to use Shaman for your main character and merge your Angel spellbook into it. You might be able to get druid to work with some cheats and a lot of careful planning, but it might be more trouble than it's worth and not stronger than a properly built Shaman.
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 3:17:55 PM
No.3820150
[Report]
>>3820136
>I have no idea what that means
You merge angel's spellbook with your class' spellbook, so instead of getting 20 caster levels like every caster you get 10 more thanks to your mythic ranks. For example you can get level 9 spells as early as act 3 (level 9 spells are late-game, you obtain the angel mythic path right before act 2 ends) and you get a shitload more spell slots
>what full divine casters are
Casters that use divine magic (like clerics), they tend to be more support focused compared to arcane casters
Full means that they can use up to level 9 spells, there are caster classes that only reach 6 or even 4
>or whether that will block my ability to smite shit with the power of the heavens and a flaming sword
You spam pic related, tl;dr, beam of light that's unavoidable
alternatively you can use mods to let you merge your spellbook with paladin which is much better flavor-wise, angel is kind of a one trick pony (but a very powerful one) without merging your spellbook you don't get much
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 3:18:11 PM
No.3820151
[Report]
>>3820136
"Full divine caster" means druid, cleric, oracle or shaman. They eventually get access to the most powerful divine spells (they have "full" progression), but cleric and oracle share a spell list, while druid and shaman have spell lists specific for their classes.
"Merge spellbooks" means that the mythic path you're choosing makes available some spells specific to it. By progressing on that mythic path, you gain an entire spellbook with just that mythic path's spells in it. But in this case, Angel's spellbook can be "merged" with one of your preexisting spellbooks - if you have levels in druid, cleric, oracle or shaman. If you choose to do so, you can then prepare and cast your Angel spells using your normal class spell slots.
Why would you want to merge your spellbooks? Because you can get a LOT more spells per day with your normal / "real" spellbook through various feats and ability score bonuses and whatnot. So if you want to cast a lot of your mythic spells, you will want to be able to use your normal class's spell slots for it (because you get a lot more of them).
Angel has extremely strong spells as a primary feature of that mythic path.
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 3:21:04 PM
No.3820154
[Report]
>>3820156
>>3820149
There is absolutely nothing wrong with using cleric for that. They have medium BAB and they start with proficiency in medium armor. You can either take a level in Fighter to get lots of things like martial weapon proficiency, tower shield proficiency and heavy armor proficiency as well as bonus feats and stuff, or you can just spend a feat to pick up a weapon or armor proficiency if you really want heavier armor or something.
Clerics are already functional as "holy knights" out of the box, they just don't necessarily have Smite, and they use spells for healing instead of Lay Hands.
This is PF1e, so clerics are NOT "sit in the back and be a cheerleader". They are rowdy frontline tanks.
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 3:33:15 PM
No.3820171
[Report]
>>3820174
>>3820165
I don't see what synergy Hellknight has with Paladin specifically.
Everyone feels lackluster in the tutorial because you're level 1 and you have no equipment and no mythic ranks. The entire point of the tutorial is to establish that you feel weak compared to the demon threat. It's what makes your heroic power so noticeable later when you begin gaining mythic ranks.
In any case, it sounds like you don't really know much about Pathfinder's mechanics in general, so what you really want to know is how to make a character that will suit the playstyle you enjoy.
So first you need to know what playstyle you even enjoy.
If you like "smiting" things, you need to think carefully and honestly about what you mean by smiting. You mean the class feature Smite Evil? Or do you just mean "hitting demons really really hard"? Because if it's the former, you don't necessarily have to be a paladin to use smite evil or similar types of abilities. And, again, I can't stress this enough, there is absolutely nothing wrong with paladins. If it's the latter, you can hit demons really hard with all kinds of funky builds.
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 3:44:53 PM
No.3820177
[Report]
>>3820179
>>3820174
Ok, what do you mean by power of the heavens? Golden glowing particles? Is the strength to one-shot a demon not the power of heavens because it's literally just massive strength bonus and Power Attack and Vital Strike so the particles it makes aren't glowing gold?
There are many "divine swords" in the game. Big fucking sword sanctified as a holy relic is kind of the entire schtick of many weapons. In particular, there's a mithril bastard sword you'll get before Drezen that you could use for a long while. And there's various other types of two-handed weapons that are similar though they might be an estoc or falchion or greatsword or other type of weapon.
Trust me, there is a large variety of weapons in the game, and if all else fails, transform Finnean into the specific one you want. That's what he's there for (keep doing his upgrade quests).
The idea that you'd need to use a tutorial weapon for the whole game is a little silly, but since it can be upgraded later (more than once, in fact), entirely doable.
The relic sword you find in the tutorial that's an actual weapon is what I assume you're talking about.
If you're talking about the plot moment when you meet Lann, that's not a physical weapon / item that you acquire since it's more like a fragment of an angel's spirit that joins your soul (unlocking the Angel mythic path in the process).
>>3820180
I would actually recommend starting with 15 charisma. You do need some strength, maybe 15 or so. It's ok to leave Dex at 10. And you'll need at least 13 Con.
If you're going for any combat maneuvers, you might need Dex 13 or Int 13 or both. And I personally believe that Dex and Int 13 is extremely wise on all melees because combat maneuvers are insane in these video games where trip means the enemy is literally stunned until they stand up (which provokes attacks of opportunity and also costs them a Move Action). Being able to Blind at-will is also powerful (it does not test Fortitude or Spell Resistance, obviously, so you can blind undead and everything else, too).
For non-casters, the cost of maxing one ability score is just flat-out not worth it. Noob trap. Don't do it. 15 is plenty, and you need to not neglect other important ability scores.
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 4:03:16 PM
No.3820199
[Report]
>>3820200
>>3820192
Combat maneuvers are not guaranteed to work on everything on every attempt. Nothing is. You're not guaranteed to be able to hit stuff with your melee attacks, either. But you'll have an easier time doing so while it's prone. And there's ways to get extra attacks on stuff you're tripping so that you don't give up too much action economy.
If you're not playing on easy mode (in which case nothing matters, because you'll splatter everything no matter what you build), then being able to crowd control is more important than being able to hit hard.
But where paladin really shines is as a Dazzling Display intimidate build. You do need weapon focus for it, though, so the feat tax is nasty (though you can get mods make you get a feat every level instead of every other level, or you could toybox in the feat taxes for free to yourself). You can pump your intimidate checks crazy high for super cheap, and due to how the math works, it becomes basically guaranteed to work on anything not fear-immune by level 8. And then you can add on extra stuff to cause frighten on shaken targets with it.... A guaranteed frighten in a huge AoE with a massive debuff with a standard action??? Fucking broken OP.
>>3820203
>stats
STR and CHA are the main ones
>upgrades
Feats, weapon focus (and plus), improved critical, power attack, and outflank, focus on that at first, and make sure other martials also grab outflank
The build guides are all autistic and either expect you to know the game, or to minmax to clear unfair mode, ignore them. You can respec at any time anyway as long as you're not playing on core or above (which you shouldn't) or you can just play custom difficulty and enable respec no matter what
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 4:51:01 PM
No.3820233
[Report]
>>3820237
>>3820189
Something that's really hard to plan for is dexterity. Full Plate armor has a dex cap of 1 (so the maximum dexterity modifier you can add to your AC while wearing it is 1), but there are classes like fighter which increase the dex cap of your armor. There's mythic feats which can modify the restrictions of your armor. And there's mithril full plate armors, too (armors made of mithril are lighter and less restrictive than normal, but they're rare and expensive). Unlike in Kingmaker, you don't have dozens of belts of physical perfection +6 laying around, so you need to pick which belt to wear, and you don't want to wear a dex belt if most of the bonus is wasted because you're wearing heavy armor, but nor do you want your AC to be a few points lower than it could be just because you aren't wearing a dex belt.
That gets into the weeds, though, and other than Regil, just about all the companions are low-Strength high-Dex builds (which really fucking SUCKS for some of them...).
Anonymous
8/6/2025, 6:42:17 PM
No.3820286
[Report]
>>3820851
>>3820090
fair point, desu I still haven't got that far in RT, but it was refreshing to see Argenta at least act her role in the early chapters with regard to the psyker character. Whereas in most cases Seelah does fucking nothing for near on 5 chapters, when she should be out to nuke you as soon as you start doing anything shady.
They really let her down imo, its the perfect setting for a paladin to be able to get corrupted, go full on righteous holy war mode, become totally embittered, or be a shining exemplar of virtue. Seelah does none of that shit, she has the character development of a merc
>>3820280
For Through the Ashes before the Tavern siege in act 1, or before you attack the Grey Garrison, basically before you beat act 1
Lord of Nothing is the sequel to Through the Ashes, and that one can be played at any time, but the first time to transfer your save is right after you beat the vescavors in act 2, there are more I think, but that's the one I did, and unlike Through the Ashes, this one adds a (fairly short) dungeon in act 5
you don't HAVE to play them mind you, most people don't because you play as literal whos instead of your own character
Anonymous
8/8/2025, 9:09:11 PM
No.3821904
[Report]
>>3821819
I don't know about "best," but barbarian is pretty fun.
Mantis gives some excellent dodge AC, a percentage chance to avoid damage, and fast healing. Barbarian gives the Come and Get Me rage power, a nice chunk of of damage resistance, plus extra niceties like full BAB.
Stack dex, throw in some obvious feats, and you get a shockingly tanky motherfucker handing out counter attacks for free. If you want to, like I did, instinctual warrior even gets AC and initiative from wis for that extra justification in filling out the warpriest's spellbook.
Going the full 20/20 is almost certainly stupid, but I like it. When the build is about drawing fire and dodging shit, a 60% chance to avoid any targeted spell is no joke.
Anonymous
8/9/2025, 5:03:28 PM
No.3822659
[Report]
>>3822661
>>3821668
Settle in for some deep lore, young one. Way back in 2010 when PF1e was launching, there was a lot of misinformation and bullshit drama in the D&D 3.5e playerbase about what was wrong and what should be changed and how. Paizo was eager to capitalize upon the opportunity of how deeply unpopular 4e was, and decided to make some hasty changes to 3.5 and call it an "update" and then publish this "updated" system under the OGL to scoop up a huge fraction of WotC's marketshare.
This meant that "Save Or Die" spells like Finger Of Death and Wail Of The Banshee were hard nerfed to merely do damage. Phantasmal Killer was left alone mostly because it was a fairly obscure spell that no one really used. Why was it so unpopular? Because it allowed (*gasp!*) TWO entire saving throws which meant of course that it's useless. Of course. Of course.
So anyway, lots of these ill-advised hasty edits to 3.5 spells were done purely to mollify a loud minority of complete DUMBfucks who camped out on charop forums back in the day. Turns out, all their ideas were fucking stupid as FUCK and literally every change they demanded has proven in the fullness of time to have been so. And thus we get more spells like Suffocate which still kill targets, it just takes longer (which feels more "fair" in a game where three rounds in combat is an eternity). But due to the difficulty / expensive of republishing errata and stuff, reverting nerfs to Necromancy was too low a priority and never did get done.
Meanwhile, notoriously anti-pattern designs like arbitrary HD limits on spells (Color Spray, Sleep, Hypnotic Pattern, etc.) remain in. Why? Because it was deemed too risky to touch the sacred cows. Those spells work like that because of how wonky and janky WotC game design was in the 1980s and '90s but after twenty five years of being like that, D&D players wouldn't want them changed to something unfamiliar.
Anonymous
8/9/2025, 5:12:18 PM
No.3822661
[Report]
>>3822662
>>3822659
(cont'd)
The full truth of the matter is that Sleep is too powerful to be a level 1 spell. It's a more complete disable than Stun, and even with a 4 HD limit, it's still gamebreaking during the phase of the game that it's effective. Given its small radius, however, and the fact that it allows a save to negate, once you're past the early levels it becomes merely an effective crowd control, just like so many others. It's actually not even as powerful as Slow, since it is such a small area and any damage wakens a target... and any ally can spend a Standard to waken a victim. So in fact Sleep should not even have a HD limit and should instead be bumped up to spell level 3 but not any higher than that. This, however, would change the expectation of level 1 wizards about their early game gimmicks and the vocal minority couldn't have that.
Similarly for stuff like Color Spray. The fact that it's a small cone means you're in melee and in danger if you position yourself to use it. It's more powerful than other spell level 1 effects, sure, but that just means it's competing with spell level 2 powerhouses like Glitterdust, Web and Sound Burst which are far safer and more convenient to use (and in the case of those Conjurations, they don't even allow Spell Resistance!). So the actual balance fix for Color Spray is to allow separate saves against the Blind and Stun, remove the Unconsciousness (which never made any sense anyway) and then have a set duration of 1d4 rounds running parallel for both conditions. And then you could remove the HD limit and it'd remain an interesting disable for its spell slot at spell level 2 but not as strong as SL3 spells like Slow.
Hypnotic Pattern should have been spell level 1 from the start since Fascinate technically is supposed to end as soon as combat breaks out... The HD limit was always fucking stupid and should be removed entirely (SL1 spells already have the weakest save DCs).
Anonymous
8/11/2025, 4:51:39 PM
No.3824292
[Report]
>>3824431
It's like, "ok I should get weapon focus" and then I click on the feat and I have to go through a list like this:
Arming sword, Longsword, Bastard sword, Greatsword, Zweihänder, Falchion, Scimitar, Sabre, Messer, Großes Messer, Seax, Katana, Tachi, Wakizashi, Dao, Jian, Mace, Flanged mace, Knobbed mace, Morning star, War hammer, Maul, Club, Cudgel, Flail, Chain flail, Ball-and-chain flail, Battle axe, Dane axe, Bearded axe, Francisca, Poleaxe, Bardiche, Tabar, Dagger, Arming dagger, Rondel dagger, Baselard, Stiletto, Kris, Spear, Pike, Glaive, Halberd, Billhook, Voulge, Lucerne hammer, Partisan, Spetum, Naginata, Yari, Guandao, Shortbow, Longbow, Composite bow, Crossbow, Light crossbow, Heavy crossbow, Arbalest, Repeating crossbow, Javelin, Throwing spear, Throwing axe, Throwing knife, Chakram, Boomerang (war type), Sling, Staff sling, Ballista, Trebuchet, Counterweight trebuchet, Traction trebuchet, Mangonel, Onager, Siege tower, Battering ram, Springald, Scorpion,Falx, Rhomphaia, Kopis, Khopesh, Macuahuitl, Tepoztopilli, Ikakalaka, Shotel, Kampilan, Panabas, Parang, Kukri, Kora, Urumi, Bichwa, Katar, Pata, Tekko-kagi, Sai, Tonfa, Kanabo, Tetsubo, Yatagan, Kindjal, Shashka, Tabarzin, Qama, Estoc, Cinquedea, Claymore, Dirk, Spatha, Gladius (late use), Langseax, War pick, Bec de corbin, Guisarme, Ranseur, Awl pike, Man catcher, Horseman’s pick, Lochaber axe, Fauchard, Boar spear, Winged spear, Leaf-bladed spear, Lance, Heavy cavalry lance, Light cavalry lance, Jousting lance, Banner spear, Pilum (late medieval adaptations), Assegai, Rungu, Iklwa, Harpoon (war type), Atlatl, Plumbata, Throwing dart, Bolas (war type), Kestros, Siege crossbow, Arcuballista, Hand cannon, Bombard, Pot-de-fer, Fire lance, Hwacha, Mantlet, Rotella, Adarga and then I have to alt tab and google which is best and there's 20 pages on some forum about whether 2d6 or 1d12 is better on Sosiel.
>>3824343
In the first two games, Owlcat relied heavily upon crowdfunding for a large fraction of their development cycle / costs. This meant they had to provide goals and rewards for contributors. The specific things that donors asked for were the panpolybdsm duo of Regongar and Octavia... and Nenio.
If you're complaining about Sosiel, he's a character in the tabletop AP, so Paizo, sure, but his story and romance as implemented by Owlcat are extremely satisfying and not pandering at all. This coming from someone very sensitive to pandering bullshit. Rescue a brother who has fallen from his ideals and been traumatized by the horrors of war? Seems pretty unrelated to sexuality or gender to me. Sosiel isn't weird or kinky. He's barely even sexual at all, and it takes a long time to get to that point with him. His romance is about his personal weaknesses as a sheltered and naive artist, anger management issues regarding injustice, and a crisis of faith about the question of whether beauty and virtue really can overcome the ugliness and vastness of evil.
Other than that, Daeran is obnoxious I guess, but he's meant to be. And it's not because he's bi, it's because he's maladjusted to the situation he's gotten himself into early in his life and the strain of carrying that secret having turned him into a bitter nihilist lashing out at everything.
If you're complaining about Arueshalae, I don't know because I don't care enough about her to have her around.
Ember's Pollyanna motif is annoying, but she's also not a romance option and the conflict between the radical absolutism of her altruistic convictions and its seeming insignificance compared to the overwhelming horror of the demon invasion is a very necessary and fundamental theme of the story as a whole.
Who else annoyed you, anon? That shallow sociopath bitch Camellia? Yeah kill her. We should have had Aravashniel, definitey.
>>3824356
Between LOUD GIRLBOSS BLACK PALADIN I'M BLACK AND A THIEF BUT NAO JUSTICE and oh so reddit Nenio I quickly had enough, and yeah Sosiel just drives it home with effeminate nothing male cleric. Really he's just more boring that anything but all three taken together gets into make the slop stop territory.
Rest of them are fine, I'm an Ember simp and will protec her with my life, the orphaned saint thing in a crusade idea grabbed me from the first. Probably my favorite character overall.
Camellia I get why they have her, unique evil character, I don't run her but she doesn't bother me. Wenduag is too much fun. Aru is the obv. waifu bait but honestly bores me because she is too op.
Daeran is funny and interesting. Like a less obnoxious Astarion. Regill is a great character in a mechanically terrible class. Greyboring is boring. Uflgir or however you spell the griffin guy is great, kinda too good even as he and his dlc dominate my runs.
It's not blacks either it's the reddit, in RT Iridia is great. She fits the world. So do the rest of them. It's like night and day difference.
Anonymous
8/11/2025, 10:08:41 PM
No.3824466
[Report]
>>3830406
>>3824441
You don't even know what any of those things are, so no wonder you're overwhelmed and then fall back on your regressive contrarianism.
Seelah is dumb and immature, which is the main premise of her development as a paladin: to develop discipline and maturity. If you don't like her voice actress, ok, but her personality is not "girlboss". That's not what a girlboss is. That's not what that term means at all. You don't like black people and you're trying to stereotype her as something she just isn't because you don't know how to stop projecting your juvenile bigotries to see what's actually happening.
Nenio is a caricature of ultra-retarded unsocialized geek because the writers were frustrated that kitsune won the crowdfunding polls on which race to include as a stretch goal. They made her into a grotesque cartoon of insufferable autistic dork specifically for that reason. She's meant to be insufferable and obnoxious. You're supposed to only barely tolerate her at best. Literally every interaction you have with her presents you numerous opportunities to belittle her or express your disdain for her profound developmental delay.
Sosiel isn't effeminate. That's not what that term means. He's literally courageous to go to the war front and minister to the traumatized and maimed soldiers while also personally partaking in frontline combat. He confronts the horrors of the ghoul chapel and similar scenes without breaking. He is repeatedly shown as a competent warrior (befitting his strength and con scores) all along the way before ever entering the arena to fight alongside his brother in brutal combat. He is shown with very masculine behaviors like outbursts of rage and protective instincts. What you actually did was dismiss him because you saw a black man painting, so you don't actually know anything about it and you made up some blatantly false narrative instead. Anyone who's actually played the game knows how hilarious your description of him is.
Anonymous
8/12/2025, 3:51:39 PM
No.3824993
[Report]
>>3825013
>>3824478
I don't know that it's badly written. And he is shown as desperately struggling against the tension between ennui and anxiety. He's shown to be already pretty tired of it all. Like when you meet him, he's already way past tired of all the shit, but he's a young man and has no idea what to do to get out of his situation. The reason he can't get any pleasure out of the parties and sex and whatnot is because he's bitter about it, depressed. He's literally already profoundly crippled by the anhedonia by the time you meet him. It's why he flits from scene to scene at his birthday party - because the moment a new idea seizes him he's already desperate to seek it in hopes it'll work for a moment longer because the current activity has already lost his attention.
His story is about the Sword Of Damocles.
And his wealth protecting him from the inquisition isn't unrealistic either since it's only been going on for a little while before you meet him. He's still a young man. I forget how long it's been exactly, but I think at his birthday party you find out it happened like fifteen? twenty? years ago? While he was still a child, basically. And the entire reason you're there is specifically because an inquisitor has been tailing him for years already.
So I don't think he's badly written. His banter is definitely repulsive. If you met someone like that in real life you'd immediately be offended and repulsed. Which is why he does it - to push people away and to relieve his stress by lashing out. If he didn't get a rise out of you he'd keep trying until he finds something that works. Which is what he does in-game, too.
Anonymous
8/12/2025, 4:05:16 PM
No.3825009
[Report]
>>3825017
>>3824997
They already make maps huge to encompass all the events that take place in a single adventure. They already give you exit points to skip straight from the planning room to the overland map, and so forth. The way Unity handles resources, though, means they can't have the whole game loaded into RAM at a time. Unity doesn't work like that. It just would not be technically possible for them to have everything take place in a single scene.
And the memory leak issue is a Unity problem that they do not have access to fix. They literally don't have the source code of the engine to be able to fix the memory leaks.
You're eager to find someone to blame, blame Unity. It's a decrepit and clunky engine with poor support. It's used because it's cheap to license and easy for developers to use or add onto. But it's also an engine that has developed its bad reputation for decades.
Trust me. It's Unity. Of all Owlcat's flaws, this particular one is not on them.
>>3824995
Nah it's cause I tried playing it with a fever and got confused and did not uninstall outright, kinda like when I sometimes go into arguments about politics on 4chan when tired even though I should know better about arguing with schizos/16 year olds. Now I got a pile of work to go through that I don't want to be doing so I procrastinate + some lingering mind fog on top. I'm just not the target audience for both build/d20 autism and superficial ameripolitics in fantasy world stuff, and having a flu and trying hard to like the game made me menally hung up on this. Like, I really want a game to exist that is like this game but different, but there's no such game atm. Well, no big deal.
>>3824993
It's written fine the banter is funny the burned out bon vivant thing is ok, seeing a bunch of demons disemboweling people should have snapped him out of his ennui real fast but whatever, crpg writing is always bad the only problem is in this case there's a lot of it. None of the companions are badly written by video game or maybe even genre fiction standards.
Anonymous
8/12/2025, 4:56:51 PM
No.3825033
[Report]
>>3825015
This is a thread titled "why wotr writing so shit" and I am posting on topic. I guess you're just used to cliched internet debate, left vs right, etc. Or maybe you hate my stream of consciousness, that's fair, I'm not willing to apply any effort itt and hope to stop posting on impulse, sooner the better.
>>3825017
Popular engine = can find proficient devs easy and develop fast vs building own engine, teaching it to devs, etc. Productive autists are expensive. Unity is otoh cheapest devs and good enough.Would be my guess. Unity in theory is fine but they probably hired bottom of barrel devs and or had poor management process - likely poor management, since you can teach an ape to optimize code.
>>3825018
It was in jest. I did not play the game attentively enough to critique chars.
Anonymous
8/12/2025, 5:07:44 PM
No.3825037
[Report]
>>3825017
You don't know what an engine is, and you already called Underrail's shitty... so which is it? Do you not want a shitty engine?
Owlcat chose to use Unity because it was an engine they could afford which could accomplish the goals of their design. They came into existence around the Kingmaker game. They made that one with a shoestring budget.
It's a fucking MIRACLE that Owlcat even exists and accomplished three RPGs in so short a span of time. That kind of thing just does not fucking happen in game development. This is insane INSANE levels of success.
And they could not have done it if they chose an expensive engine... or tried to develop their own. Which would have been even more expensive. They were able to do all of this because Unity was affordable and lots of developers are familiar with it, so it's not expensive to find developers who can use it.
You need to learn to be more respectful when you don't know what you're talking about.
Anonymous
8/14/2025, 4:18:33 PM
No.3826285
[Report]
>>3826288
>>3826245
Vanilla is the most popular flavor in the world. It's subtle and compliments lots of things. You notice when it's missing even if you don't necessarily notice when it's there.
Kingmaker is like that. It's a scoop of high quality vanilla ice cream. It's not a wild and wacky hodge podge of over-flavored neon. It's simple, comforting and foundational. It's the fundamentals done right and treated with respect.
How do you find the difference between two pastry chefs? You get them to make something simple like vanilla creme. A master's technique will show and the amateur can't disguise mistakes with distractions.
Kingmaker is a masterpiece, even if you lack the attention span or tranquility to appreciate it.
>>3827474
What are you even going on about? Regill is an unpopular companion. He's only used in evil playthroughs and not even by most of those since he's hyper-lawful and the Devil path sucks. Lich replaces him with a better martial. He's incompatible with the Demon or Swarm paths.
You assume that skin color has nothing to do with it while you're talking on 4chan, and you accidentally revealed that you love the pale literally-bleached ultra-fascist....
Regill isn't popular. You're confusing your personal affinity for the Nazi-coded douchebag with what the playerbase actually says. You're probably pretty young so you don't really understand how vapid and comedic Regill's trope is. To adults, he is immediately obvious. The aesthetic of extreme utilitarian competence and brutal pragmatism is an exhausted cliché. It was so overused in cartoons of the Nazis in the last century that nowadays it's like having a Wild West gunslinger cowboy pop up in full Roy Rogers tasseled regalia.
The profound failures of authoritarian-utilitarian moral philosophy have been thorough examined and understood for almost a century at this point.
This is why Regill is insufferable: because he is a cliché Nazi. He's kitsch. Not camp. Because he completely lacks any self-awareness and has nothing new to say about his trope. He is just the simplest and most comedic iteration of the idiom because, frankly, it's just not possible for a Lawful-Evil-Stupid companion to be interesting or compelling. The entire concept is just a paper thing aesthetic stylization of a worldview subscribed to exclusively by forty year old losers.
Anonymous
8/17/2025, 8:13:19 AM
No.3828187
[Report]
>>3824441
I think Warhammer's grim, mythic tone kinda inoculates it against "millenial writing," that reddit vibe, or whatever you want to call that thing that causes everyone to talk like they're in a contemporary sitcom or Marvel film. The writers know they have to respect that tone and that to maintain it they have to give the majority of characters a voice and a bearing that is very unlike what a modern person would have. You see the same effect in From Software's games.
Whereas I think stuff like D&D has never really settled on a specific tone, so it's inevitable you'd eventually get games like BG3 with Astarion mentioning he's "not a fan" of something and other stuff like that.
In the case of Owlcat's Pathfinder games though I'm pretty sure this is the tone Paizo actually intends for Pathfinder so you can't blame them, they were just being faithful to the source material to write it that way. I definitely prefer their 40k work though. I've really never liked any D&D or adjacent stuff, it just never feels immersive.
Anonymous
8/20/2025, 8:17:28 PM
No.3830381
[Report]
>>3830427
>>3830224
Do lances still crit for uber damage while mounted in this game? Or did that little tabletop gimmick not make it in? Is it a cavalier only thing?
Pallies are definitely strong. Having access to use lots of divine scrolls (not all, because they do not use the cleric/oracle spell list) is nice, but they also do well with charisma so they can get functional UMD if they need it.
TWF with shield bashing is cute but on a paladin it might be really starved for feats and ability scores to manage it (you need Dex to qualify to take TWF feats). For at least the first ten levels, you'd be better off using Shield scrolls with UMD, IMO. And there aren't really any good feats to make shields more valuable for taking up that hand slot compared to a real weapon. Use a shield spell and then just go for mythic vital strike with mythic crits and cleave with a greatsword (enlarge person). More efficient on ability scores and feats and it won't spread your stats too thin, so it'll let you keep your charisma up for saves, smite and UMD while still pumping strength.
If you're solo, you don't need to move fast (everything will come to you) so that'll save you some mythic slots.
Anonymous
8/20/2025, 9:54:17 PM
No.3830427
[Report]
>>3830381
It’s been a while since I played WotR (at launch) but iirc lances weren’t implemented, though cavaliers (maybe just gendarmes?) do get the charge bonus for… longspears? Cavaliers are great, I had one as my right hand man. Front line was vanilla pally and gendarme cavalier on horses, and an enlarged two-handed fighter with a fauchard in the second rank.
Paladins are definitely feat starved, however I enjoyed going into the shield bashing line of feats because all those extra attacks end up applying smites eventually. And you can take the feats to use your shield to defend your mount even further, adding to thematic tankiness and defense. Plus, you’re encouraged to go sword and board due to Radiance.
Anonymous
8/24/2025, 11:55:26 AM
No.3832408
[Report]
>>3832735
>>3832339
That doesn't sound impossible, but it does sound like the upper limit of it
So what's the assumed score for a specialized stat on a legend? Start at like 18 for argument's sake between racial scores and not wanting to be too much of a min-max nightmare, 5 ability points from level, 4 from legend bonus, 5 more from legend levels, inherent 2 (assuming not shifter), alchemtical 2 (assuming not alchemist/mutation warrior), 8 more from enhancement bonus (assuming not a trickster), maybe 2 more untyped from that necklace
That's 46, or an 18 modifier. I don't think getting that higher is impossible (more specialized starting stats/race, certain classes, master shapeshifter for one of the two mythic ranks, random shit I forgot because I haven't played in a while etc)
>>3833814
Casters are bad in general. Maybe early game a few cleric buffs are useful but you just flat-out do not need casters past level 12 or so. Especially if you keep your UMD up in case you really really really need a restoration for some reason I can't fathom.
Caster level is not technically capped. There are ways to boost your caster level above your class level with feats and items, but it's basically just +1 and +2 at a time, usually in a single specific spell you select or a school. But you're never gonna see a caster level above 30, there just aren't enough bonuses to do that.
The more hard-coded problem you'll run into is that the spells themselves are hard-capped. The code literally specifies a caster level cap on the damage calculation. Fireball will never do more than 10d6 damage, period. If you want to get more damage from it, you have to add on metamagic feats which stack some dice into it. But it's not worth it to use a feat for that since that will raise the effective spell level slot it occupies (extremely EXTREMELY fucking stupid thing to do, but this is the legacy of D&D and that can't really be changed in the current legal framework that binds PF1e), so use a metamagic rod for that. But if you have a rod for it, then apply the rod to a higher level spell instead.
More spellbooks does mean you get more spells. All your Abundant Casting mythic abilities apply to all your spellbooks separately. So if you're cleric / wiz you get +4 spell slots of all spell levels for each book. Will you ever need that many spells? I mean, since everything is gonna auto-succeed on all saves, yeah you might be spending every turn casting just hoping for one mob to crit fail a save.
But, again, casters suck shit because martials will one-round everything in the game. And an optimized martial will kill the ENTIRE combat on round 1...
Anonymous
8/27/2025, 8:48:53 AM
No.3834029
[Report]
>>3834033
>>3833960
Cavalier mounted lance charge is doing 250 damage without even critting, guaranteed hit on a 2... And they can do it all day long. And cavalier is extremely firmly understood to be one of the absolutely worst classes in the game.
No, ray spells are not "really high damage". No, they fucking are not. Lann is pushing 800 damage per round on my current playthrough with Cleaving Shot and Hurricane Bow, and he's not even particularly optimized. And it's not all dumped on one target, when one target dies, he just keeps putting the remainder on the next target. That doesn't happen with spells, and you can't Cleaving Shot with ray spells.
It's just simple fact that spells do not scale well enough to deal with the hyperinflation of wonky statblocks on creatures in this game. Anything past easy mode your caster literally only has a 10% chance of landing a spell without cheat mode mods. Absolutely unacceptable. And there is no gimmick or gotcha or super uber secret build you've discovered that somehow makes everything ok: if you're gonna attempt to claim that, you've proven that you're a fucking idiot for thinking no one else sees right through you. The game is not an obscure difficult thing for anyone to understand. We've fucking played it, anon.
It's PF1e. It's a solved game. The math is right there out in the open, even. We can all see it. This is not a tabletop environment with deflated stats and low-wealth where the utility and janky GM interpretation can change things. Casters just fucking suck in this game in a way they do not in the tabletop. It's just hard math. You can't argue about it, it's not up for debate.
I don't like it. You don't have to like it. But it's the truth. You don't like it? Go mod it. Without cheat mods, though, casters suck. Period.
