Thread 3806788

You guys excited to see the "new" final fantasy tactics remastered?

Hope the english dub is passable,& they add dark knight from the old PSP version

>>3806788 (OP)
No because I don't own any new consoles (last one I bought was the PS4)

>>3806788 (OP)
They already said there's nothing added, no class, no mission, nothing. It's much more low effort that luct reborn.

>>3806788 (OP)
No i have it on mobile

>>3806807
>It's much more low effort that luct reborn.
lol

I think we were all hoping for them to make an even better story than the first FFT but that never came into fruition.
Same with FF7.
The future was a letdown off a golden age.

>>3806961
That should have been an dead giveaway when XII had nothing to do with tactics not even a cameo from delita or ramza anon

>>3807050
yeah I kept waiting for a Delita connection in the world politics but it may as well been a different setting/world. They took more from FFA2 than FFT.

New iteration or bust

>>3806788 (OP)
Not in the slightest. I am waiting for a full on remake but that won't likely happen in this kalpa.

>>3807050
>>3807153
Wasn’t ff12 set in the high tech distant past of FFT?
>t. only played about 5 minutes of ff12

>>3807358
No think that was actually vagrant story

>>3806807
speaking of missions was a full blown black mage party viable going through the PSX version after decades ago being stuck on the 2nd area fight against

>>3807386
I wouldn't know, first playthrough was all martial, main was ninja monk. My next playthrough might be all mages, one summoner.

I’m going to wait on the reviews. I could never get into it on ps1 enough to finish it. It’s a slow hard game. It needs qol junk for filthy casuals like me.

>>3806826
It is pretty crazy how these publishers think that they should just keep getting full price for low effort ports and meanwhile modders have done so much amazing work that you can't even really compare something like the Satsuki Yatoshi mod to FFVIIs HD remaster (or basically any of their HD remasters as for some reason they keep seeing modders use things like AI upscaling strategically to make it look normal, yet every time SE does it it looks like you're putting on super eagle-type filter on their pre-rendered backgrounds), because it just makes them look either really incompetent or really greedy.

>>3806788 (OP)
PSP content that isn't the Alexander O Smith translation isn't in the game.

I lost all hype as soon as they announced that and tried to spin it as a good thing.

War of the Lions with the ability to play the PSX version if you're that insane like all other remasters or fuck off Square.

Place your bets on the sound novels getting translated.

>>3806788 (OP)
Nah, the original game has its enhanced editions and I dont own any new consoles.
You can rarely make something good better without betraying the original vision in some manner or making It worse. I dont expect It to be any better, so I dont find It worth buying

>>3807358
Yes, but the connections are pretty obscure.

>>3807363
Wrong way around, Vagrant Story is in FFT's future, not past.

>>3807386
Yes, it's one of the easier single class challenges. Biggest problem is healing, like black mage parties in most games.

>>3808071
WotL wasn't Alexander O. Smith, it was a cheap knock-off

Lancer & Monk or should I mix some thief skills like stealing & poaching animal skins?

hot take: I'd rather they just remake it from scratch with completely redone graphics than the shitty remasters they gave the ps1 games that aren't even wide screen and have models that don't match the low res background... or "rebirthed"

Anyone feel got any fun, flavourful builds that aren't just about minmaxing but also about expressing a bit of character identity?

For instance, I'm thinking that in a world of Holy Knights and the like, Ramza should conceptually be a "failed knight" and focus on inglamourous abilities from squire, chemist, thief and archer.

>>3809059
Pacifist Monk Ramza with low PA and can only use talk skill / brawl arts but only Chakra allowed

>>3809059
My Ramza always said fuck being a knight and took up guns at the first opportunity.

>>3809514
My Ramza was always a knight.

>>3809514
He can equip guns? Since when was that a thing?

>>3806788 (OP)
I'm looking forward to playing it for the first time when the remaster comes out

is it only going to be on consoles?

>>3809613
Make him a chemist or a mediator and he can equip guns just fine.

Ramza makes a great mediator, by the way

>>3809626
Just download an iso and duckstation god damn

>>3809647
>mfw that golgorand fight

I knew I was only two levels under level but geez these knights hit like trucks,the time mages can be tackled with your own black mages under the bridge but then you have to deal with archers!!!

RPG Tactical FF Kino .jpg

>>3809647
>Just download an iso and duckstation god damn
Nah I'll get the remaster for QoL and voice acting.

There's no way a 30 year old SRPG doesn't have jank slowing down gameplay, and I'm tired of having to use emulator fast forward on every goddamn jrpg made before the year 2000

>>3809775
He’s right. Play the PSX original. The new one looks like it’s gonna be shit.

>>3809835
Okay maybe I'll try the original after I have played the remaster first

>>3809868
There are mods that significantly improve & speed up the original, despite FFHacktics being infested by the usual suspects.

>>3809961
Ok I probably won't bother then

>>3806788 (OP)
>You guys excited to see the "new" final fantasy tactics remastered?

No. I replayed Tactics Ogre remastered and remembered just how incredibly slow the pacing of combat is and how grindy it can be. It's a slog to play through.

>>3806788 (OP)
Can you turn off the filters because holy shit

>>3807254
more like do something with the "find-items" skills it's completely insane that there's no way to know if your units are near tile's where items are hidden until you actually step onto them,there should have been a small icon at the very least

>>3806788 (OP)
Excited to see what the community does with a PC port. Not excited at all for the actual product because it's an extremely lazy job for what they are charging.

>>3809613
There is a passive ability literally called "equip gun"

>>3806788 (OP)
It's going to be AI upscale slopa, I'm afraid

hmm dark knight seems a little under cooked compared to ninja?

>no double attack
>can only use one sword unless you grind for two handed
>if attack skeleton you give them HP instead

>>3811257
Dark Knight has a "boss job" moveset, that is to say, very effective but very limited.

>>3809835
Mime worth the grind?

>>3812149
Very niche. It can be extremely good but not on your first time going through the game.

>>3812164
It's been awhile but was there new game+ or some kind of super dungeon just after the main story?

I vaguely remember trying to find some pig enemy in random battles but no luck hours after grinding

>>3812206
There is the deep dungeon but it's not terribly hard

>>3806788 (OP)
Looks like remaster adds QoL to remove random encounters

>>3812226
>QoL
>remove
Please no. This is like the shitty TO remaster all over again.

Anyone have trouble with the lion wars added fights,just reached 45 & thought they would be cake but these ghouls are hitting like trucks

>>3807345
The original story is quite problematic, so I hope they fix these elements in the QoL version.

>>3813357
>problematic

Your out of your mind m8 the story is awesome just needs a proper sequel then whatever they were trying with the advanced games

>>3808393
>pretty obscure
Your party in XII is literally the zodiac braves

>>3811024
Yeah but that's a total waste of your second passive slot. Situational cheese notwithstanding.

>>3812206
That pig only spawns in one story battle (like 35% chance) and two maps. It shouldn't take hours though; you had to be doing something wrong.

>>3812226
Ew, stinky.

>>3816261
>Getting to keep the stat bonuses, armor and shield equipment options of the class you want
>Having any sort of skillset combo you want outside of Chemist or Mediator
>Situational cheese

>>3806797
Get a PC faggot

>>3806788 (OP)
They're 100% going to add a War of the Lions paid DLC, aren't they? I have to imagine the only reason they didn't include it in the base project was so they could sell it at an extra price.

>>3816718
Yeah, it would suck, except Two Swords don't work with guns, and Gained JP Up ain't a component of a mature build. Equip Gun is tits.

>>3816758
It’s two swords, not two guns, chud.

>>3816758
>Two Swords
>Gained JP UP
What are you even talking about at this point?

>>3812226
It seems like they added the option to flee. Which is good at least, even though we had smart encounters via mods for ages. Your post made me think they went the TO Reborn route and I got scared.

>>3806788 (OP)
It's going to be slop. You don't need a demaster. Just emulate the original PS1 version.

>>3816748
Very unlikely. The Pixel Remasters dropped the bonus content from the later releases with zero DLC and the devs specifically said they weren't including it.

>>3816718
>>3816758
I field a mediator anyway. And an oracle. For me it's Equip Shield. Consider the Knight levels required.

>>3816951
We were talking about Ramza so his ubersquire job is hard to let go considering the benefits

>>3809019
I'm going a step further from your hot take into super mega extreme WTF deluxe territory.
I think they should make a new FFT game instead of yet another shitty remaster.

>>3817126
>make a new FFT game instead of yet another shitty remaster.
They could, based on reception and sales of the remaster.

>>3817366
Riiight

>>3817366
Heard this one too many times to believe it now

>>3817366
>>3817947
In six months time, we're going to hear about SE being disappointed in the sales figures.

>>3819155
>make low effort remake that's pretty much a port with voice acting and no ambition like multiplayer
>SE: It seems gamers aren't interested in tactical rpgs...

>>3819177
Followed up by Expedition 33 Tactics getting released next year and breaking all records

As long as we can turn off the voice overs I don't see what the issue is.

The bonus content not included in this one was:
1. Dog shit. Onion Knight sucked, Dark Knight was okay, the extra gear was all OP, and the bonus characters were lame or broken. Along with all that, the bonus content was a mess of hardcoded bullshit that is extremely difficult to mod.
2. Bugs. You had the slowdown bug, the sound lacking reverb bug, the sound just plain being out of sync with everything else bug. So enjoy your PSP bonus bugs.

I am disappointed we didn't get a non-flowery do-over of the dialog and text, something that's the best of both worlds, but whatever we can mod it in.

What I really want is less hardcoding, more slots for everything, and easier modding. That is really the only thing that matters, along with a successful launch so SE remasters to the other games to be more modder friendly and then gets off their asses to make more games.

>>3819210
but anon it's going to be based on the japanese version where you can't even steal genji gear m8

They should have let you toggle the original psx translation

>>3806788 (OP)

I´m still recovering from my last tactics ogre run.

>>3819254
Other than the sword & gloves, it's all Crystal Armor + 1. You can get the sword from level 99 ninjas with catch.

Again, easier modding fixes this.

>>3819177
If a certified classic trpg doesn't get notable sales, a new entry wouldn't either. Perfect for testing waters.

Besides, being a remake is irrelevant for the audience that never played it.

>>3819350
You should really apply working for SE. You'll fit the culture immediately.

>>3819210
What kind of retard counts bugs as bonus content?

>>3819374
The kind who thinks the PSP port doesn't suck ass.

>>3819394
The port does suck. The content was mostly good.

>>3819373
It's common sense.

>>3819469
It's the exact opposite actually. You extrapolate too much just from one thing and then you get things like this:
>>3819201
If you don't buy my old repackaged shit for 50 bucks it does not mean there is no market for new good shit.
>>3819350
>Besides, being a remake is irrelevant for the audience that never played it.
lol

>>3819350
Obviously they tested waters. First luct, now this and then they might revive both series. Luct reborn was a success AFAIK.

>>3819479
>you don't buy my old repackaged shit for 50 bucks it does not mean there is no market for new good shit.
It's new good shit for a lot of people.

Sorry, but they're not remastering it solely for that neet on /vrpg/ who played the game 30 years ago and still has a (emulated) copy

>>3819487
>It's new good shit for a lot of people.
cope

>>3819485
Revive both series? Which?

>>3820543
Fft and advance is one series and tactics ogre the other.

I want to play VI but what version should I play? Or would I be better off finding a rom hack?

>>3819485
maybe we'll get lucky & they'll actually expanded on the ending?

feels like it ends just before things get really good delita never even SEES ramza again after becoming king,they could have had at least 4 more chapters?

>>3821258
Come now, we know this won't happen. The to go version is psx emulation. Can you mods there, unlike the overpriced garbage remaster.
>feels like it ends just before things get really good delita never even SEES ramza again after becoming king,they could have had at least 4 more chapters?
Even luct had the decency to add chapters after the story.

>>3821258
There's hidden dialog in the PSP which explains quite a lot, but you have to let the templars and espers survive a few turns and slowly injure them to near critical before it appears.

>>3821360
>slowly injure them to near critical before it appears.
Missable dialogue. Even worse, you get a penalty for being good at the game. Ridiculous.

>>3822107
I agree. All that dialog should play out before the enemy dies or quits.

>>3806788 (OP)
It would normally be day 1 buy for me as I only played the PS1 version when it got released; I will however wait to confirm it's not been adapted to modern audiences.

>>3822239
That a good thing open worlds have: can't miss shit. Gamedev hate players and it shows. Make the journey interesting and not stressful.
I left tactics ogre reborn for half a year and returned, just to immediately turn it off. Have to do more than 50 levels of a repetitive dungeon and replay a sizeable part of the game to overwrite the state of the world, so that I can play a vital part of the story. Wtf is this? Said dungeon has a level cap, so that it is artifical difficult. Oh, want certain drops? Prepare to saves um for hours. Don't want it? Then you are gimped, as your build literally doesn't work without 3% drops.

>>3822471
Had no problem with Tactics Ogre, not sure what you're REEEEEEEing about anon. Go back and play it.

>>3820737
Are they doing anything with FFT Advance now?

>>3822874
Not that I know. I expect a new srpg within 3 years after fft release. Se is slow and stupid.

>>3822862
Potd is tedious af, especially if you are after relics that are basically mandatory for coda postgame. I now remember why I quit. Takes a lot of saves humming to get certain drops. Without these drops you are stuck with shop weapons. That's disrespecting players time.
Other than that to is arguably the best srpg.

>>3812226
Good, random encounters in FFT are time wasting garbage

>>3809775
>I'm tired of having to use emulator fast forward on every goddamn jrpg made before the year 2000
why
I put it on a toggle a contoller button. Playing modern games where I can't skip all the boring shit at 10000 FPS is brutal now

>>3823408
To had trainings with absurd xp increase. Complete waste of time, as the first thing you do is a training battle as soon as the level cap is raised.

>>3823408
Low tier opinion
>>3823430
At this point just have level scaling

>>3823618
Iirc you can activate level scaling after beating the game.

>>3823404
Fag opinion, had no problem and loved POTD.

>>3806788 (OP)
I hope the combat has some major reworks , even more than the weird LUCT remaster

>>3824666
AFAIK it's the psx version including voice over, that's that.
No dark knight, no nuffin'!

>>3806788 (OP)
Read on gaming leaks plebbit that low key another fft like game was announced. Apparently has ties to ff11/14?
Are there other games like fft? Disgaea and feal seal aren't to my liking. Don't appreciate the art style.

>>3824551
PotD is a slog because undead enemies are a slog to deal with. Then there is the fact where you cannot leave and the teleporting items are extremely rare. But the worse aspect is easily not PotD itself but how loot is handled in TO. The concept is great, it just ends up being a complete slog. I liked the elemental temples better.

>>3825072
It's a slog and your points are valid. In a game where you have shops everywhere, potd 100 has like three of them. You need a cleric (don't have one), else you need holy water. Item tossing is a rare skill, so you need to move the unit to the downed undead. Lack of winged rings makes maneuvering. 100 repetitive copy paste floors aren't visually appealing. The lack of story fights doesn't raise motivation either. Ridiculous drop rates make collecting loot time intensive.
>I liked the elemental temples better.
Not as long and repetitive and 100% drops that are useful for every team.

>>3825131
I went at it with a cleric and a necromancer (prevents re-raise) and it was still a slog. Having to waste so many of your unit's turns just so you can get rid of an enemy just makes it take forever. Undead should just get instantly exorcised if defeated with holy damage. Or make it a PotD exclusive mechanic idc.

>>3825138
>cleric and necro
That's nearly overkill.
>100 floors
That's like 2000 minutes, without the look for specific items. I have like 2 winged rings and maybe 3 strong(er) weapons and haven't reached level 75, yet. I do like the game and can't believe there hasn't been made anything like that, besides fft. Hopefully we will get new srpg from se. Triangle strategy is shit.

What's your team? I might start a new team, denim and casting monsters only. Unsure which class for denim here. Caster is risky, as there are duels against strong mf'ers.

>>3825153
>2 winged rings
I was playing the PSP version so those weren't nearly as good.
Denam was the Cleric but he is a Fusilier now apparently.

>>3825164
Some savage items, but far from fully geared up. The terror knight looks intimidating, lacks equipment, poor guy. Does the psp version have stat charms?
>elemental system
What do you think of the elemental system in luct? I find it lacking, really.
>armor bug
How the fuck did they oversee this? Good idea to have a multiplier as some sort of progress.

>>3825171
>Does the psp version have stat charms?
It has monster meat for permanent stat gains but those are a bit of a pain to hunt for.
>The terror knight looks intimidating, lacks equipment, poor guy.
Honestly I don't remember what he was doing. Certainly a unit meant to annoy but seeing from his level he wasn't used as much.
>What do you think of the elemental system in luct? I find it lacking, really.
I don't care for it at all honestly. As much as I don't care for augment element skills to pair with elemental weapon in the PSP version. It's just there but doesn't offer any decisions really. You just optimize around it.
>armor bug
What are you referring to and which version?

>>3825174
I know, I had like 12 pharompa runs to buff two units for vit and Str of course and then I had to do 100+ floors for potd before I can continue with the story coda.
>It's just there but doesn't offer any decisions really
Thats exactly my issue with it.
>armor bug
Each armor has a def value and numbered icons for physical elements (piercing aso), races and elements. Elements are equivalent to resistances, a percantage reduction, same for race resistances. The physical resistances however are bugged. Instead of having 3 values for each physical damage type, the damage formula however doesn't work that way, it only takes the one physical damage type (like piercing) as additional defense that the unit uses as weapon.
Example: your warrior has a slash weapon, his additional defense will use the slash resistance for all defense calculations, not the ones you see in the equipment menu. It ignores the piercing and bludgeoning completely, as the units weapon is slash. The benign bug can be exploited: just up the additional slash defense, equip a slash weapon and you have high defense in piercing and bludgeoning for free. Very big oversight.

I always wondered how people could put 500 hours into a game, but I think I might hit that mark for this game. Might try fft next, modded, too. Certainly not the remaster, lol.

>>3825204
Oh that bug. Yeah that's Reborn exclusive along with other bugs. Reborn has actually more broken formulas than the PSP version surprisingly enough.
FFT is also great. It's a more focused content but the unit building is as fun as ever. The remaster seems okay-ish for a first timer since I would recommend them the PS1 version anyway due to the superior sound effects. But if you're not opposed to modding it then yeah do your thing.

>>3825210
Really? Ridiculous! How is team algebra not ashamed of them? Can't be complicated to fix, but they don't care, do they?

>>3825214
The more you dig into this version the worse it gets.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q1nUEH7xD8XE-IdUpVs5qUvJSN9FECzeWQR_aRE-aEE/edit?pli=1&tab=t.0

Known bugs: Currently, spellcasters don’t get to apply any bonuses (including elemental damage bonuses) from their weapon if they are either wielding a two-handed weapon or wielding a one-handed weapon and nothing in the offhand.

This is circumvented by having another item (e.g. shields) equipped on the offhand (bonuses on the offhand will not apply). For RT-saving (and AI team builds) purposes, consider using a generic Cursed Dagger (i.e. no units sacrificed to modify the weapon) on the offhand.

>>3825216
Meaning the same as in armor or mostly the same. The only stats that matter are att and def? Bastards!
The cursed dagger has 0 rt, doesn't it? What's the advantage as off hand weapon?

I don't have casters in my team, only melee. Might start a second playthrough though, the magic monsters I mentioned. The ogre are pretty impressive, really. What's your denim? Might go lord in the second one and pump him with charms to master melee and magic, a true ruler.

>>3825220
Meaning if you have a 2 handed sword that gives you something like +2 Int then the game laughs at you. The worst part is that the stats actually change in the UI but your damage is unaffected. They recommend an off hand dagger just so you can "activate" the bonuses to spells from your main hand...

My denim was for the longest time a Swordmaster for the novelty, and I've never messed with the Lord class much.

>>3825224
You can't equip a dagger with a 2h weapon, can you? The way to go is 1h weapon + dagger for casters? Are shields and books completely useless then? Just looking for a weapon for mage heavy lord. 2h katana?

>>3825224
>My denim was for the longest time a Swordmaster for the novelty
Right, was too fast. Ye, really cool class. Dodge tank and heavy hitter.

>>3825239
>>3825239
>You can't equip a dagger with a 2h weapon, can you?
The bug affects one handed weapons too
>>3825216
"if they are either wielding a two-handed weapon or wielding a one-handed weapon and nothing in the offhand"

>>3825242
I completely skipped the link, awesome. First glance it's a trivial formula. Unsure if that maximises fun, but it is a 30 year old game.

>>3825271
In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. But leave it up to SE to release a game where unit building plays a major part and having broken formulas and misleading UI that will never get patched.

>>3825272
>leave it up to SE to release a game where unit building plays a major part and having broken formulas and misleading UI that will never get patched.
I really can't enjoy mercaneries lament. If I would have money, I'd make a to clone ASAP.
Just studying the drive link you gave me. They are brain amputee, aren't they? Instead of having one damage formula that works with stats, they have damage tables for classes of skills and spells. Just how dumb are they? Was the game made in spreadsheets?

What are an alternative to blue cards, temporary power ups? I like them spawning at random times, I dislike that they spawn on places that effectively cost a turn, this lessens the effectiveness. I do dislike as well, that blue cards are extremely powerful, much more so than 2 hours of grinding boost items in the dungeons before potd or San brosa. How could the mechanic be improved or expanded on?

>>3825613
If the purpose of rng is to introduce on the fly adaptation and mini objectives then cards are a very distasteful way to go about it.
Rain extends water tiles in some maps already. It's also supposed to affect evasion but that is broken in Reborn.
So why not build on that concept of a shifting battlefield?
Sudden wind could affect ranged and flying units, harsh sun could improve fire based attacks. Snow could improve some status effects like sleep and slow and. You could have tiles that are randomly marked as about to get struck by lightning or falling rocks if you want to force movement.
If the rewards are worth it then players could make mini objectives.
>Enemy randomly stands on a tile about to explode or a tile is marked randomly underneath them
>Instead of choosing to do damage to them you take the opportunity to immobilize or push them there
You could base temporary buffs on morale. Steal from FFT's crystallization. Tiles of previously fallen units boost the morale of anyone who stands on them afterwards (rage for allies, boasting for enemies).

>>3825704
You know, in a fantasy game there can be many more effects than only snow and rain. One could certainly make environment a valid game mechanic. Shame no one used that. In to you fight near a vulcabo, but basically nothing happens. Boring.

>ff crystalization
What's that? You mean dead units?
>Tiles of previously fallen units boost the morale of anyone who stands on them afterwards (rage for allies, boasting for enemies).
Especially interesting when battlefields are reused through the campaign and the cursed tiles remain the same.

All of your examples are much better than stackable cards that give 20% more damage each or a 75% crit chance, effectively allowing for triple damage in a game where few hits end the units life.

>>3825838
>You know, in a fantasy game there can be many more effects than only snow and rain
Yeah you can have divine places that can offer "power points" where units get blessed or just regen HP/MP. Dark and ghastly places like PotD could have wandering spirits that act like hazards for everyone or even a blind Reaper type hazard you can strategize around. Volcanoes are also a very good idea for randomness.
By crystallization I meant how dead units sometimes leave a crystal behind anyone can reach to fully recover. FFT also had hidden traps for both parties that could be expanded upon as an idea. Those were only random on your first time playing a map since they were always at the same place. Nothing that cannot be improved upon to be sure.
There is definitely more interesting stuff you can do than random cards appearing.

>>3825848
I was talking about made up or exotic phenomena, like idk, electric clouds that build spontaneously or some mushrooms transmitting viruses or so.
>dead units
Yeah, the crystal is a good idea. Units shouldn't have such a generous time until they vanish. Hidden traps are an excellent idea, if you are in enemy territory. I just hope they don't bother with a triangle strategy 2, but deliver a decent srpg. Might play fft modded next. Will check out the reborn mods, too.

Should battle maps be bigger, like the team moving in real time form map to map after beating a fight, instead of returning to the menu after each fight?

>>3826581
Moving units one at a time to simply traverse a map sounds torturous.

>>3826588
Obviously the controls would change, meaning traversing would be much faster. I think choosing stages or paths in real time is much more interesting and going full health after every fight is boring. Storming a castle would feel better, if it's only one long fight over multiple maps, with breaks of course.

>>3806788 (OP)
Why don't other franchises make tactics games, like metal slug did? Seems easy enough to produce. Most settings could handle such a srpg. Imagine bloodstained as tactics game, I'd like that. Metroidvania should have a crossover with tactics.

>>3825880
>>3825848
What's about small temporary power ups after reaching milestones in a battle, like beating a unit or traversing X tiles or the like? The power up depends on the milestone and the job of the unit. That way the power up might feel earned, rather than given.

>>3826923
This is similar to how KoL did emblems. Those stayed after battle with the unit though.

>>3827189
Emblems are a good mechanic. Personally, I'd favour it, if a unit can decline them. It's a layer of strategy, as they seem to be a 2 edged sword.

>>3826854
Because that would allow them to cheaply reuse code & assets to make money, allowing for more funding towards event planners, writers, and testers.

Aka suits are retarded.

>>3826923
I want more weathers.

>>3827189
Emblems are earned perks.

>>3827516
>I want more weathers.
Volcano eruptions, insect swarms, poison clouds, illness spread by monsters or cadavers, hail, scorching sun (hello metal), dry desert, jungle virus, tundra, meteor shower. Let me guess, you want more? Name more.

What exactly is the disadvantage of necro lord denam commanding an undead army? It seems that skeletons have more hp and also more innate resistance and zombies are basically immortal, except when clerics or necro banish them. What hindering me making a true undead team lead by a necromancer lord, strong in magical and physical attacks? Come to think of it, it's more iconic than the lich in wotr. Looks better, too.
Are there any downsides to undead generics? Loyalty seems like a non issue, as cards as there to mitigate.

>>3827690
Wait a minute, hold up! When I turn a patriarch with summons into a skeleton warrior, does he keep the summons?

>>3827564
Many of those effects are actually terrain features, not weather. That said there should be more terrain, and more variety of terrains on each map.
Examples:
> Double the number of maps with water on them, and add more types of water to each of those maps.
> Add seasonal snowy variants to maps.
> Create a lava and hot springs map somewhere.
> Add more deep dungeon style maps. Bervenia Volcano is a good candidate.
> Add a machine tomb map somewhere.
> Add seasonal poison marshes to the water maps like Sweegy.

While we're on the subject of locations, Goland should have the same gear options as Goug, and all of the battlefields at Goland and Goug should be accessible in a Deep Dungeon manner.

You really only need 1 weather for each element, and then some extras.
> Windstorm : boost wind, increase/decrease range of ranged weapons in two opposite directions, boost wind, reduce earth
> Blizzard; obvious
> Rainstorm: already exists
> Thunderstorm: already exists
> Hailstorm: boost ice, boost water, reduce fire
> Bright sunlight: boost holy, reduce dark
> Midnight: boost dark, reduce holy
> Electrical storm: like thunderstorm but without rain, boosts thunder, reduces water
> Wildfire smoke: boost fire, reduce water
> Heatwave: boost fire, reduce ice, hazy
> Pollen Season: boost earth, reduce air

>>3827868
Quality input. Tieing effects to elements would've been the way to go. Now we need to wait 50 years for se to implement these and release a new tactics game.
>Aka suits are retarded.
Maybe 70 years, just to make sure.

>>3806788 (OP)
Is anyone here really considering buying it? If so, why? Unlike reborn, this seems to be the worst version available and the most expensive, too.

>>3828286
Yes, because I want to play it.

>>3806788 (OP)
>worse visuals
>revised translation
>censored
Why should I play a remaster when I can play the OG PSX game?

>>3828286
To me it's just another non definitive incomplete version.
Certainly not buying it this way but I would want to if it had multiplayer, well thought out difficulty modes and not missing some of WotL's nicer content.
Then again it had denuvo so I wouldn't be buying it thanks to that alone.

>>3828290
>>revised translation

By the original author which has explain why and how he improved it.
But it's different, so that means it's bad, right?

>>3828292
It's mostly redone so that voice acting flows better.

>>3828287
Why not get the psx/p version then?
>>3828290
Exactly my thoughts.
>>3828291
>multiplayer
Seems to be very, very hard to implement.
>denuvo
Trying hard, aren't we? Kek at se

Off topic, but can I have two timeliness in one playthrough in tactics ogre reborn? Apparently my galgastani frame is shit and I want to replay it on law and make the right decisions. Can I have the temples finished in chaos and sacrifice them in law or does chapter 4 converge the two paths? Is there chapter 4 law and chapter 4 chaos or just chapter 4?
If there's only chapter 4 and I don't want to do death marches, what can I do?

>>3828300
>Why not get the psx/p version then?
Obviously I want the remaster.
What's your problem exactly?

>>3828302
It's been ages so other people can explain better but you can go back to an anchor point and if you play up to the next anchor point that's section gets overwritten. I don't remember how chaos frame gets tracked between jumping around.

>>3828305
None, really. Trying to get the motivation or reason. I see it as the objectively worst and most expensive edition. Mods won't work, too. Looks like ass compared to psp or psx even. If it's to your liking, by all means.
>>3828309
>anchor point
Got that. Nevermind, I'll just play through ch2 and 3 to recruit the people I will never use. Need vyce and princess though for coda. Apparently it's much more difficult then potd. Might make a generic lord via ring and blade. Unfortunately that's very late in endgame, so you can't really enjoy the units at that point.
While off topic: level scaling sucks

>>3828318
For the most part. I have seen something similar done well to keep early encounters from feeling 100% non-threatening. Still easier, just not laughable.

>>3828327
Some fights are tough and really rng based. Even the final boss is anything but straight forward. Level and item scaling do need the damage output. Despite farming charms and stat items for a dozen hours, even denam can't compete with any of the bosses or unique. They have higher vit than dragons and mind and res as high as liches. Pretty much the definition of artifical difficulty. Not to mention the absurd health pools bosses have in this game.

>>3828198
Weather in vanilla only affects elements, bow/crossbow hit rate, & movement in water. I could see terrain getting visible elemental effects similar to TO Knight of Lodis.

>>3828345
>Knight of Lodis.
Is this better than luct? Everything I learn about it indicated so. Chances of a reborn treatment? Guess none, but...

>>3828352
It's different, reduced scope. Good though.

>>3828292
>By the original author
28 years later. People can change their whole personality in this period of time.

>>3828358
You can't possibly improve a decent translation after that time period. At some point it's just set in stone. You can, however, alter the content and streamline it, to appease the masses. That of course tackles the quality and the result is a subpar product.

Looking fir op builds in tactics ogre: Did I get that right? I can train a witch (high int), make her a terror knight, then a lich via ring, body swap with a low level matriarch, train her to level 50 and make her a zombie, then a ghost? This u it has like 450 int and high hp and physical stats, can use summons, terror knight skills (fear), float and is immortal as undead. Weakness is the post game, where clerics will banish her.

>>3828948
Disgusting non-roleplayer

>>3829000
Kek to you. How are you going to role play in tactics ogre reborn? Especially after beating all three routes? The game has less role play than bg3 does.

I just don't get how anyone can look at this filtered mess and think it looks good.

>>3829137
The left hand side looks odd, the hand or rather arm, I mean. The art style works better when the picture is small.

What else is there, fft, ffta/2, knight of lodis, brigandine incl remake, although the remake looks like shit, battle brothers (cool mealchanics, but ugly art, fell seal (?), disgaea (ugly, too).
How come there's literally nothing that comes close to fft and to?

>>3829635
I mean, I tried redemption Reapers and War tales, but they are mechanically stale and look ugly.

>>3829635
Vandal Hearts. Both games.

>>3829635
Triangle Strategy?
PS1 ones like Saiyuki and Vanguard Bandits as well
Ragnarok Tactics, Gungnir, Jeanne d'arc on PSP
Ofc none of them is close to FFT level

>>3829834
Was suggested here by some anon not too long ago. There's no way of going around it. Is it mechanically interesting? Tbqh fft and to could handle more depth.
>>3830044
TS has no generics, so I doubt I can play that.
Saiyuki is the goku game, eh? Same story here.
Gungnir is on my list, too.will check out ragnarok tactics, always skipped it due to the wonky name
Jeanne darc and banner maiden are on my list, too. I think the latter is the worse game out of these two.
Curious if se will deliver a good new srpg soon. After luct and 3 years later fft, it will take at least two years, four if its a new ip. They are anything but efficient, it seems.

>Sword of Convallaria
It's f2p, isn't it? This alone should be reason enough for other devs to jump the hype train.

>>3830118
I found lost Eidolons veil of... It's roguelike/-lite though

>>3829635
Tactics Ogre One Vision is the holy grail you seek.

Gugnir is pretty good. Art style is very anime but the story is more mature than other dept heaven games.

>>3830101
try dungeons of nehuelbok

Ive been putting off playing it on my vita, but it'll be way comfier on switch, so Im glad to see it announced. Guess I could have the same experience now on a steamdeck but they dont sell them here lol.

>>3830131
Ye, already found that. The mod is thought through, albeit a bit far from the source material. That's OK, the worldbuildung isn't that great either.
>>3830132
Curious, will look it up, thanks.

>>3830132
That's the parody game, eh? It's good, you say, isn't it? Alright. Are the dlc worth it? Is there a spinoff or sequel, too?

Terra, Celes and Relm are the cutest final fantasy girls!

>>3830167
Not him but I'll answer, I wouldn't call it a parody, just a very humorous take on the old tropes. Although it is very European in that department, if you're not a fan you can turn off all the useless chatter (barks) and if so inclined mute the foul-mouthed dwarf and dumb-ass elf, but they probably have the best interactions.
Meet your party: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4rbIpZVebM

There's DLC, which is definitely worth it and a sequel/spin-off Naheulbeuk's Dungeon Master which is a bit janky and misses the mark, which is a shame.

>>3830527
So I'll get the main game and the dlc, got it.
I will put lost Eidolons veil in the list, it looks decent enough. Let's hope I find a bucket of gold somewhere, I'll put everything into a modern srpg like fft or to. More paths, deeper mechanics, more intrigue, much more drama and of course: incest.

Anyone know where I could get a pre-patched iso of Final Fantasy Tactics with the increased roster size patch?

>>3830814
Also I kinda wish they improve the monster recruitment mechanics, like add a bestiary system, a separate roster for monsters, and like in Dragon Quest 8, you could enter tournaments with a party of monsters, and like auto-chess, the monster arena would play out like that.

>>3830814
Ff hacktics?
Does anyone know if dq 1 and 2 remake have a third person mode?

>>3806788 (OP)
What could spice the tactics genre up? Influences if other genre? If so, which ones? Not souls?

>>3830818
Monsters have an entirely different ability system, they could easily give monsters their own character blocks and save a good bit of room.

Ideal roster size for me is 50 humans, 100 monsters.

>>3830983
>What could spice the tactics genre up? Influences if other genre? If so, which ones? Not souls?
Literally just make more tactics spinoffs of existing genres, especially if your studio owns multiple IPs and can reuse your tactics engine and art assets.

Otherwise, include every quality of life feature developed over the years.

Some elements that would be nice:
* Procedurally generated battlefields.
* Weather and terrain effects on every map.
* Downtime events, like when a party member is KO'd the first time treat it as an injury and put them in the party base camp chopping wood, on bed rest, nursing other injured, etc. Have these roles produce significant effects for themselves and the party.
* Minigames which provide tangible benefits for the player like card modding in FF8, chocobo breeding in FF7.
* Exploration.
* Extreme customizability in stats, skills, and equipment.

>>3830814
The only thing I remember was an asm hack for the ps1 version (16 original roster size) that worked like a benchmark where you could "store" units.
You can probably search for it in FFHacktics and it shouldn't be that much trouble to apply.

>>3830986
NIS has been doing this for years, results vary. Sometimes it's cool, sometimes it sucks (I was not a fan of Makai Kingdom's version)

>>3831011
I don't want all battles to be procedurally generated, just some of them. Perhaps an Azure Dreams style tower or cavern.

The Disgaea terrain effects are all lame, I want more of the vanilla FFT style terrain movement, element, & status effects; plus Tactics Ogre Knight of Lodis style terrain.

I also hate extremely grindy customization schemes. Give me enchantment slots on equipment (some of which are themselves slotted, similar to support materia) variable skills, and FFT with sane growths & multipliers.

>>3830983
I don't think we need to spice the genre up. We need to refine the genre. We are already starting to see some very strange 'dudes on a grid' type games spinning off from weird IPs. What we need is something with the quality and aesthetics plus attention to detail of gameplay in tactics ogre one vision, but as a full product. We have some very realized combat games that don't nail the story or aesthetic as well. We need to find a new peak 'wizard chess.' I also think that this community has a deep desire for things like a map editor, custom games and pvp but if you advertise those features too much over the story your project is doomed.

We need Reics, Preatorious and Matsuno to Collab on game design. and CoffeePotato and his 5 best autists with attitude to comb the game up and down. TO Reborn is just not it. MasiffPress and their alumini are doing good things in the tactical TTRPG space right now so there is hope.

I always wanted to do a roguelike in tethical , but tethical never released QQ

>>3831097
Based elder phag blasting thread with TRVTH NVKE.

We need something that hits everything on the list & all features at least reasonably good.

Shame that ffhacktics devolved into the typical nerdlib slop zone.

>>3827516
>>3826854
>Aka suits are retarded.
Honestly, I'd love light reskins. Bg3 is a reskin of dos2 and it's perfectly acceptable. Yakuza games are all reskins of each other and it works just fine.
>procgen battlefields
Idk, maybe a few, but this might backfire.
>more effects and interactivity
Yup
>camp
Yup2
>survival mechanics
I came.
>mini games
Like what
>interesting map
Yup3
>fft and kol
Terrain?
>crafting and customizing gear
Came2
>map editor
Forget it. Bg3 only got one because sven is a lunatic. Not that the editor lead to any custom content.
>project doomed
I don't follow. Pvp would be nice, no doubt.
>invite you tubers for consulting and teatinf
Maybe not a bad idea
>I always wanted to do a roguelike in tethical , but tethical never released QQ
Lost Eidolons veil is a roguelike.

We should talk about job system and itemization then. I'd say the biggest weak point in tor is that jobs are static, no mix and match. Race has a miniscule effect, if at all and region should have boni or mali, too.

I envision a job system with maybe 8-12 jobs and 2-5 paths too follow, or a free skill system in each job with limited points. Jobs determine gear selection, stats and it's effectiveness.
Elaborate element system and effects as discussed above. Kol system of emblems, just fleshed out. Permanent death of course, maybe a finisher required. Boss can send a unit away to prevent death, low morale leads to desertion.

>>3831138
>cont
One big issue is speed or rt and %hit/evade/parry/avoid/crit to get right.

>>3831142
>cont2
How would debuff works? Lower stats (Str, int) or secondary stats (mdef, evade) or a combination of bad effects?

>>3831136
Obligatory card game you can use similar to card mod in FF8, chocobo breeding & racing, a snowball fight mini game, various contests like are fluffed in the Errands for FFT.

FFT has I think 3 different water terrain effects.
> 1 depth still water does nothing unless it's raining, then it costs 2x move.
> 1 depth moving water costs 2x move.
> 2 depth water costs 2x move & you can't act.
> Poison marsh poisons everyone in it unless immune.

TO KOL has similar limits to movement, and each time has terrain modifiers for each element that increase or decrease your elemental defense damage modifiers (basically % damage increase or reduction).

For jobs create some customization scheme for the jobs themselves. Only limit is your imagination.

>>3831227
The mini game has to tie in with the game, else I dislike.
There should be at least 10 or so effects, maybe more. I'd like to see an elemental system far away from fire and dark or psych and 'earth' .Maybe universal principles or what greek elements used to be, building stones of the universe. Elements should further have side effects, slash leaves open wounds and pierce might break bones or rupture tendons.

>>3831138
>I envision a job system with maybe 8-12 jobs and 2-5 paths too follow, or a free skill system in each job with limited points.
These are really all secondary design elements.
The reason most FFT clones tend to decline in quality is that they fail to have a sufficiently complex model underlying everything else. Midcringes complain about rough edges, like the zodiac system or speed growth or how some combinations are too powerful. So all those interesting underlying systems get removed. Instead, you split up the bland and boring generic RPG system into enough jobs and arbitrary pathways to give the illusion of depth.

FFT weapons have multiple formulas the scale on different stats and combinations of stats.
FFT faith in particular was a unique take on magic that helped distinguish magic-like and "MA-driven" abilities from "real" magic.
FFT Zodiac compatibility balances uncertainty with predictability. It's a random element affecting rolls/etc. and is decided before a battle initiates and remains constant and predictable for the remainder of the battle.
FFT had a fully-rotatable 3D battlefield enabling a creative variety of maps with interesting features and vertical elements.

>>3831097
>We need to find a new peak 'wizard chess.'
Not sure what you're referring to here specifically, but AD&D2 high level 'Wizard Chess' is kind of the opposite of what made FFT great. While not bland and generic, but its complexity is entirely based on a bunch of arbitrary and largely meaningless abstractions. You get an elaborate pile of of rock-paper-scissors games built on pure abstractions like spell schools or character levels and spell levels and whether a weapon is magical or not.

>>3831254
>enough jobs and arbitrary pathways to give the illusion of depth.
100% truth. Throwing a number like 8-12 into the ring is far from a design crime. There should be some selection possible. Luct has like 30 classes, yet it feels there are no classes, besides mage and warrior.
>fft zodiac
I thought every character has his zodiac sign?
>These are really all secondary design elements.
What do you suggest?
>FFT clones fail
For multiple reasons, really. Almost all have a shitty job and progress system, itemization is lame af and their games are usually ultra ugly to look at. Story has neither depth nor weight and is as bland as the devs are.
>wizard chess
No idea what he means, but I would like a system where mages don't feel like archers with funny coloured arrows.

>cont
I always wondered how to implement flanking, open and engagement and the like into these games. Just getting higher damage or %att while attacking from behind seems lame.

>>3831277
>What do you suggest?
Start from first principles and design a robust system for modeling the basic elements of the game world.
How will you distinguish between a dagger, a sword, a spear and an axe?
How will you distinguish between a grenade and a fireball spell?
How will you make different types of movement abilities useful?
What properties might the elements have?

Basically, you build a model of the world and its fundamental elements. Instead of saying "I want a knight and a thief" and then working backwards, you first model speed and agility, strength and armor, and so on. Once you have solid models, you build the classes from these foundational elements.

>>3831277
>I would like a system where mages don't feel like archers with funny coloured arrows.
In the OG FFT this is achieved in several ways.
1. Mana-based limitations (archers have unlimited ammo)
2. Spell range largely ignores terrain. Spells have no need for line-of-sight, can cast through walls, floors/bridges, etc. Archery is heavily influenced by terrain. In fact even Crossbows and Longbows are different, with Crossbows being heavily limited by line-of-sight requirements while longbows can shoot over obstacles. Longbows also have longer range when shooting from high ground to low ground.
3. Spells usually have Area of Effect properties while archery is single-target.
4. Magic gets stronger with the Magic stat and is limited by the Faith of both caster and target. Crossbows are based on Power stat while Longbows scale on both Power and Speed. Damage is not reduced by faith incompatibility.
5. Magic can employ elemental properties on demand while archery is limited to one weapon at a time.
6. Mages can gain support abilities like Teleport while Archers have one that lets you always hit a melee attack.

>>3831321
I like the approach of asking oneself questions.
>>3831331
Pretty thorough analysis. Magic to is equipped, that's absolutely disgusting. Haven't played fft in a while, it's just a skill purchased by points, isn't it?
I feel classes shouldn't be maxed, but rather have a wide selection of skills and the player chooses few among them.

How would you design multiclass? Fft let's you mix skills and iirc maxing a class does give a stat bonus, doesn't it?

>>3806788 (OP)
I always had a mini heart attack, when I heard his whistle and red card raise up

>>3831350
Played a dw paladin and usually one shot enemies. Red card: one hit kill - > game over - > progress lost

>>3831357
lol

>>3831239
>The mini game has to tie in with the game, else I dislike.
That's up to the writers, they need to tie them in somehow. Saiyuki Journey West had posts, which I guess were combination bars, post offices, and job boards. There you could play iirc dice & card games with other hooligans. Suikoden had similar games.

>There should be at least 10 or so effects, maybe more.
I already posted this here >>3827868 , read the whole thread .

I'd like to see an elemental system far away from fire and dark or psych and 'earth' .Maybe universal principles or what greek elements used to be, building stones of the universe. Elements should further have side effects, slash leaves open wounds and pierce might break bones or rupture tendons.
I loathe stacking multiple effects on every ability, there should be one group of skills that is just "element blast". If you want your scheme, build a ranger that can shoot elemental arrows & use skills that deal debuffs - both at the same time.

Fire, ice, bolt, water, air, earth, dark, holy, & poison are enough.

>>3831138
My idea is to take the horizontal human job wheel of vanilla FFT, vary that for each race, and then add a vertical job wheel for each job in the horizontal. Basically a 2D array of possible jobs, but you can only pick one job out of the vertical wheel to fill each slot in the horizontal wheel.

For example the Priest (White Mage) slot in the horizontal wheel could have alternate jobs in the vertical wheel like:
> Exorcist: offense & anti-undead variant of White Mage.
> Cleric: support variant, support spells have larger AoEs.
> Paladin: tank variant, magic less effective but heavy armor, shields, better weapons.

Monk slot
> Holy Monk: holy element attack skills, healing skills have larger AoE, can buff self & allies, less damaging
> Dark Monk: skills to absorb HP & MP, can't heal allies, skill to transfer debuffs to enemy, skill to steal buffs from enemy, dark element attack skills
> Weapon Monk: can equip weapons & heavy armor, can use skills with weapons, weaker healing.

Knight slot
> Divine Knight: gear & stat break sword laser skills, should work with any weapon using that weapon's formula but XA - some value. Limit to special recruits like Meliadoul.
> Holy Knight: as above, but with Agrias skills. Should retain normal knight gear & stat breaks.
> Swordmaster: ditto, but Orlandeau.
> Dark Knight: ditto, but Gafgarion + Ramza. Should also get FF8 Dark side, & FF4 Dark Wave.

Chemist slot... normal chemist needs a item power up support innate, and a w-item support not innate. Should be called Medic too. Needs additional items that have buff & debuff effects.
> Actual Chemist: gets Mix, use 1 item or mix 2 together for a new effect. No w-item.
> Lobber: extreme long range chemist, delivers items via crossbow bolts (long range) or grenade launcher (wide AoE).

Archer slot... Should be renamed to ranger, and instead of charge/aim skills get a number of Mustadio style debuff weapon strikes. Also if using a bow should let you select type of arrow you use, from those equipped to your bag. Arrows should cover all elements & also some debuffs.
> not sure what alt jobs to get.

Black Mage: change so it gets 3 or 4 level spells for 6 elements - fire, ice, bolt, water, air, earth. Geomancy support skill to degrade enemy element defense by 1 level, and increase own by 1 level.
> Spiritualist: weaker spells, but chance to deal debuffs.
> Blaster: spells are all line or cone AoEs, long range.

>>3831254
> SP being OP
Fixes:
> limit SP boosting from Yell, Shout, Speed Save to 1/4 of base SP. This will prevent Yell cheesing.
>> ditto for PA & MA.
> zodiac system should be more subtle, from 1/16 to 1/8 up or down. Should also get a bonus in your birth month.
> Faith breaking being too OP? Change the Faith formula to 50 + (faith / 2).
> Brave breaking too OP vs reactions & monks? Change reaction formula to 25 + (brave / 2), and unarmed formula to (base PA * current PA * ((brave / 2) + 50)
> Unarmed damage too OP? See above.

Easy as shit to tweak vanilla FFT for balance, instead of tossing all the systems.

3D battlefields are also great, especially rotatable ones. Wish we had 3D models too, done up in a FFT chibi or Vagrant Story style.

Wizard chess refers to tile & turn based fantasy RPGs. Chess boards are also tile & turn based.

>>3831280
Full evasion from front, 4/5 from front-sides, 3/5 from sides, 2/5 from sides-back, 1/5 from back.

Also give certain jobs support or passive skills that increase procs, especially from back/sides & vs debuffed targets.

>>3831321
This guy has the right idea. Basically design your stats system, then your gear system, then design your skills system to fully exploit stats, gear, & other skills. No attack or defense surface should remain untouched.

If there's overlap, differentiate that which overlaps.

>>3831331
Should magic (and teleport) have unlimited vertical range? Should it be limited to line of sight (going down)? Maybe you can differentiate LoS spells from overhead spells like TO KoL?

>>3831344
>How would you design multiclass? Fft let's you mix skills and iirc maxing a class does give a stat bonus, doesn't it?
1. Standard FFT skill set loadout, but with two secondary skillsets, 2 reaction skills, 2 conditional skills (similar to reaction but passive effects), 2 supports skills & 1 move skill.
2. Jobs with meta skills, like red mage, mystic knight, calculator, sage (uber red mage).

>>3831344
>maxing a class does give a stat bonus, doesn't it?
Nope, FF5 sort of does in some cases.

Stat boosts in FFT should be simpler & more discrete. Instead of hidden raw stats used to calculate visible stats, combine them & increase the base value by a factor of 100.

Instead of starting at 3 to 6 for SP, PA, & MA, have a value of 300 to 600.

Give men, women, & beasts a + bonus or - penalty to each.

Make job growths a simple addition to this value.

Make each skill learned, job level unlocked, job mastered, & new job unlocked give a small additional bonus.

Way simpler than dealing with stat multipliers. And if you combine with the custom job tree idea above, you can pick all physical or all magical jobs to minmax stats.

>>3831016
>I don't want all battles to be procedurally generated, just some of them.

Good news, that's NIS games. The main story levels are crafted, while the extra dungeons are procedurally generated.

Can't help you with terrain effects, though. Phantom Brave has movement weirdness, but PB is weird in a lot of ways.

>>3831561
>My idea is to take the horizontal human job wheel of vanilla FFT, vary that for each race, and then add a vertical job wheel for each job in the horizontal. Basically a 2D array of possible jobs, but you can only pick one job out of the vertical wheel to fill each slot in the horizontal wheel.
Like subclasses (vertical wheel)?

>>3831587
The totally synthetic/unreal environments of Disgaea bother me, along with the dumb stories and cheaply rendered art. I want something like the environments of FFTA, TO KOL, one of the nicer tile-based terrain graphics as opposed to FFT's hand crafted terrains.

Use the tiled terrains for procedural stuff, handcrafted for story battles and repeatable battlefields that aren't procedural.

Going back to the alternate class thing from these posts:
>>3831565
>>3831561
... I would need a full 2 bytes (65535) of data to address that many skills. It would easily get above 2000 skills. I wouldn't try to modify the skills, just duplicate their data for each variant of the skill and use the same animation.

Time Mage Slot ... adding a few new spells - 3rd level gravity, comet is vanilla meteor, meteor is multi-hit comet, Haste/Slow 2 have improved AoE and hit rate
> Time Lord: all de/buffing skills improved, all offensive skills worsened ( Gravity 1/2/3, Comet, Meteor)
> Space Lord: all de/buffing skills worsened, all offensive skills improved

Oracle slot ... basically vanilla oracle, minus Drain/Osmose, with Flare. Flare roughly between level 3 and 4 black mage spell, but single target. Gets all debuffs not found on Time Mage or Necromancer, and I do mean ALL (poison, vampire, charm, confuse, berserk, death). Doesn't get Brave modification. All debuff spells are cross shaped AoE.
> ???? 1: Not sure about name, but this job applies debuffs to all enemies on field, but has a much lower hit rate, and the spells are slower. MP cost is the same.
> ???? 2: Each debuff spell becomes single target, but has a higher hit rate and MP cost. Spell speed is the same.
> ???? 3: Debuff spells are more expensive, but each one also deals decent non-elemental magical damage along with the debuff.

Dark Mage slot ... drain, osmose, dark 1/2/3, bio 1/2/3, death, doom, vampire, undead, and an "if target is dead & undead, remove dead & heal; else if not undead & not immune to undead, add undead, remove undead, and heal" spell
> Lich: job is always undead, dark spells now get greater AoE, drain spells get greater power
> Necromancer: debuffs and bio spells get greater AoE, hit rate, and power

Thief slot ... increase the amount of gil stolen by steal gil, add a mug skill that deals 1/2 damage but tries to steal a random item and some gil, make steal heart work based on SP, make all steal skills default to steal gil if they miss, & add skills for steal brave, steal faith, steal hp, steal mp, steal pa, steal ma, steal sp, steal CT, and steal buffs. allow it to equip spears, bows, and shields.
> bandit: make all skills deal damage as 1/2 of normal attack damage, change fluff from "steal" to "mug", add PA and weapon WP to steal success rate along with SP, can equip PA * WP weapons
> magic thief: add MA to all steal skills success rates along with SP, give all skills a chance to cause sleep, slow, mute, or blind, can equip MA * WP weapons

>>3831609
>Like subclasses (vertical wheel)?
Yes, exactly like subclasses. They replace the class in the horizontal job wheel.

>>3831570
>FFT chibi or Vagrant Story style.
Would a 2000s flash look work? Vigil longest night for instance. Rotation between fft and tor.

>>3831617
That's basically the Jeanne D'Arc look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_KS14WcbMI

That's fine. If you're doing overhead look like TOR then you need to make overhead sprites (and transitions) or go full 3D. I 100% endorse going full 3D models for in-battle environments and characters, it's less work in the long run since with sprites the animations needed increase quadratically iirc.

Ninostyle's 3D models is the style you should shoot for, just with Vagrant Story instead of Final Fantasy 7 as the 2D art you're translating to 3D.

https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy7/mods/4?tab=images

>>3831644
More or less. The 3d background looks fantastic in Jeanne and the anime cutscenes, too. Much better than banner Maiden.
>sprites vs 3d
Id say so, too. Else you are limited to the flat rotation and that's really not optimal.

>>3831644
>https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy7/mods/4?tab=images
Looks good. This one does look great, too. (not for tactics, but fits ff7 better than the ff7r look does)
Final Fantasy 7 (VII) Original [4K/60fps] All Side Quests Walkthrough Part 1 - Sector 1
>ninostyle
Is that the name of the modder?

>>3831654
The overhead perspective in TOR is so dogshit, it takes me right out of the game. Seriously pisses me off that they couldn't put in fucking full 3D rotation, even half-assedly so modders can finish it. They completely fucked TOR, it's almost a strict downgrade.

>>3831656
Yes, ninostyle is his name. He's Russian, and you can hire him for your game for a decent price. Or so I hear. His work is excellent.

Speaking of art assets, what I want for a FFT/TO/VS style game is a mix of the fonts for FFT, VS, and something called Albertus. It's used in John Carpenter films.

>>3831660
>fucking full 3D rotation
Takes time to get used to and is unacceptable on a new game, no doubt. I get why they did it, it would mean hundreds of hours of reworking functioning things. It's a bad solution and barely qualifies as solution at all.
>modders did it
Did they now? Just shows how lazy remaster are.
They did fuck quite a few elements of the game, true.
>ninostyle
Found him on plebbit.
>online harassment
Am I now harassed into publishing a game? Sure feel like it.
>fonts in picrel
Albertus? It's named after Albertus magnus apparently. Why did carpenter use this exact font and more importantly why would you like it in a tactics game? I'm unknowledgable in fonts, what's so special here?

>>3831675
Modders for TOR didn't implement map rotation and finish the undone sides of buildings/terrain, or make better sprites. I'm just not playing it until they do.

> online harassment
What?

> Albertus? It's named after Albertus magnus apparently. Why did carpenter use this exact font and more importantly why would you like it in a tactics game? I'm unknowledgable in fonts, what's so special here?
It looks good but not modern, and it has some very slight serifs on some glyphs, more pronounced in others, strong angularity throughout, and variation in the width of characters which have round features. It also differentiates between zero and upper case letter o, number 8 and uppercase b. Only issue is that number 1, lowercase letter L, and uppercase letter i look too similar.

It's also similar to the Ivalice font, a version of which is found here:
https://www.whatfontis.com/NMY_Latin-MT-Std-Condensed.font?text=FINAL%20FANTASY%20TACTICS

Note that this is the font of the Final Fantasy Tactics logo, the in-battle and menu font is different, more like something you'd see on an archaic typewriter. Vagrant Story has a similar thing going on: sharp angular serif font for the logo, and a handwritten leaning very slightly towards cursive font for everything else.

Albertus is also a very stark font, it speaks of horror and nightmares.

>>3831710
Is it unrealistic to open a spread sheet online where fans can brainstorm?

>>3831716
I don't even have a google account, no idea how I would open a spreadsheet. I could make a discord or something if you like.

>>3831717
AFAIK you don't need one to use it, just to open it. The way I see it, the market is there and the fans are needy. Creating this isn't exactly rocket science, a dozen hands goes a long way.
>discord
Let's brainstorm a little more
>setting
The standard central european medieval fantasy setting works, maybe try something more dashing?

>>3831724
Okay I made a server, we can talk about making a google sheets there.

Invite: https://discord.gg/nxr9fqaj

>>3831747
Too soon, I'm not home, yet. They expire fast (30 min?) afaik. I'll write you here when I'm on my desk.
>demi humans
What would you like to see?

>>3831753
Permanent Invite:
https://discord.gg/H6s8MRVFc9

>demi-humans
Same 2d job wheel scheme as humans, but different pool of jobs for each race.

Rather than decide on a specific set of demi-humans, I would rather make specific families of monsters, and then derive beast-humans from those monsters. At least for the majority of demi-humans, or rather humanoids.

So:
> Lizard monsters, lizard men.
> Behemoths, minotaurs.
> Giant birds, bird men

Both beasts and beast-men would have equipment - some unremovable, as it's a body part like a claw - and 2d job trees. Dumb creatures would have fewer options.

Creatures like fey would be something else entirely, partial shapeshifters and masterful mages who are partially composed of spirit matter from a mystical fairy realm. Sort of like Outsiders in Pathfinder, but linked to the First World. Partial shapeshifters would not be able to use martial skills at all, but they could absorb say a beasts claw weapon and use it's basic attack.

And then I would have true shapeshifters, which come with or can select a body type (quadriped, octopus, squid, avian, draconic, etc), and then can absorb any equipment that fits those slots. So an octopus could have 8 legs/fins + 2 arms/fins, a body slot, a mouth slot, a head slot, a breath slot. They can't learn any new skills, just use the innate ones for them. And they have their own 2d job tree focused on using their own skills and spells.

After that, outsiders: demons, angels, elementals.

>>3831770
I should also add constructs, whose stats are determined solely by their equipment and who can have upgrades installed. From there they can learn skills by purchasing them, downloading them from ancient artifacts, or communing with another construct (functional or incapacitated).

>>3831770
>demi humans
I am for race restrictions, the question was what kind of demi humans would you like to see?
>monsters
And then half breeds, eh? That's something. If it's done like that, there should be immense hate from some factions against this.
>Dumb creatures would have fewer options.
Like in real life
>shapeshifters
Boy, that goes fast into the high fantasy territory.
>>3831772
Golems, too. Could think of something like warfolk from 5e. Animated half... Whatever they are.

>>3831778
Fey are mystics/espers, shapeshifters are monsters, and constructs are robs - all from SaGa.

Specific beasts, magical beasts in parentheses):
* Octopi, squids, (krakens)
* Giant lizards, quadrupedal pre-dinosaurs, (drakes)
* Flying dinosaurs, flying reptiles, (wyverns)
* Giant birds, (phoenixes)
* Giant snakes (various magical serpents)
* Giant bats & flying mammals (?)
* ...

Specific humanoids:
* Giants
* Lizardmen
* Bird men
* ...

The specifics don't matter, I want to cover all of them. They're really just there to have more stuff than just humans to fight and recruit. Many of them will be genocidally hostile to everyone not of their type.

Everything varies based on these 3 things: stats, skills, gear. Not much more to it than that. Classes are simply the vehicle by which I package variations.

>>3831778
A couple job ideas:

Squire - starter warrior job, powered by PA and SP
Skills:
> +1 PA skill, costs MP, limited to 1/4 of base PA
> +n CT skill, n = x + caster PA, costs mp, talk skill flag
> distract, cancels charging, performing, defending
> throw stone, cancels sleep, confusion, deals 1...pa damage
> shove, 1 range, 1...PA damage, 100% knockback
> brave up skill, costs mp
> brave down skill, costs mp
> defend ally (add defending to ally, costs HP) skill
> hp gift, costs mp and also hp

Novice - starter mage job, powered by MA & SP
Skills:
> +1 MA skill, costs mp, limited to 1/4 of base MA
> +1 SP skill, costs mp, limited to 1/4 of base SP
> invite - invites enemy, costs mp
> faith up, costs mp
> faith down, costs mp
> defend self (add defending to self, costs mp), costs mp
> reposition: move a target including yourself 1 tile in any direction, range of 1, costs mp

the third starter job is chemist, detailed in previous posts. it is solely powered by SP

>>3831807
>> throw stone, cancels sleep, confusion, deals 1...pa damage
Wake up!
>bonk
-1HP

>>3831819
Let's see if my retarded ass can make an invite that actually works, has unlimited uses, and is permanent.
https://discord.com/invite/7wsDH6Vcdr

You can get even more fundamental than stats and itemization before designing classes around them. I feel like charging in FFT doesn't get enough credit, maybe people don't really like it but I personally really like toying around with it and how you can target unit vs tile. Another fundamental thing is movement. Something you rarely see is an attack command also moving a unit. Jump for example could land you in your new position instead of going back.

>>3831609
Seiken Densetsu 3 has one of the best class systems , though it may not play well with Tactics Ogre/SMT based alignment endings

>>3831861
>Tactics Ogre/SMT based alignment endings
Why is that?
>SD3
The jobs are mostly unique, have flavour and fluff and are fun, despite being basic damage and de/buffs skills. Choices are permanent and you can leave the class as is, if needed. Who wouldn't like to play as dragon master or fenrir knight?
>allingment endigns
Chaos frame is shit and tor is cool, but convoluted to death.
>>3831856
Combining mechanics (moving and attack) is a very good idea.
>changing in fft
Idk what you mean
>>3831826
Is it now permanent and unlimited?

>>3831807
Very unsure about brave and faith. They suit fft, but I wouldn't like to copy them blindly. Matsuo or whatever the designers name is tends to have wonky stats that end up in convoluted gameplay.

>>3831869
>charging
As in, actions with delay. With a window to interrupt or simply do increased damage (FFT).
FFT combines it with a targeting system that can lock on to a unit no matter where it ends up at the delayed action's resolution or alternatively lock on to certain tiles and have units move into them before the delayed action's resolution. Hell you can even start casting a spell without MP and before it's resolved and failed to cast have a team mate toss an MP recovering item at you. These are things you can only do with delayed actions and in my opinion can be a fun mechanic to plan around.

>>3831869
brave and faith got ported to Gubat Banwa of all things

>>3831876
>Gubat Banwa
Oh, boy. They sure are happy to export their culture.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/359868/gubat-banwa-first-edition
20 bucks? Wonder who is buying this.
>graphics
Srpg tend to look like shit, don't they?
>porting brave and faith
Why?

>>3831874
>charging
Unfortunately I'm an illiterate. Ye, charging is great and opens strategic options. Maybe also add team attacks or the like.

>>3831891
why port brave and faith? the same reason people in this thread are autisticly discussing game design

>>3831917
Designing games can be as fun as playing.

>These are holdovers as Final Fantasy Tactics references. It worked in FFT: Magic in FFT was intrinsically connected to your own Faith and the target’s faith. If you had no Faith at all, you would suffer no magic damage or status effects. This is not the case for Gubat Banwa. Additionally, most games I’ve run here in the PH have had more than once people that went “Oh, I’m playing a Lunar Warrior faithful to Goddess but my Faith is at 0.” We want to reduce that friction as much as possible; we want the mechanics to tell the lore. Ferocity works for the more brutal feel of Gubat Banwa, and Spirit works to signify the strength of one’s spirit and/or their sensitivity to the world of souls.
In short, gubat banwa changed faith and bravery. As they say, the mechanics tell the lore. They skipped hp meters, but replaced it with wound marks, 5 marks will kill any unit. Posture is a shield meter that protects from wounds. That's hardly better than a hp meter, but OK.

>>3806788 (OP)
do you guys think there will be worthwhile mods? I'm not sure if I want to buy it for PC or switch. I prefer the portability but if there are good mods then I want to go PC

>>3831992
Now you wish you would've bought a deck. The usual modding forums are looking forward to the version. You could get it for the switch, as good mods will take years to be released, by that time you can get it for 10 bucks in steam.

>>3831570
>Wizard chess refers to tile & turn based fantasy RPGs
Dos2 and bg3 and even pillars of eternity is wizard chess? Well, tiny tiles in these games.

>>3832294
I have no idea what those are, rather I'm referring to the inventor of Tactics Ogre who described seeing humans acting as chess pieces in some sort of theatrical exhibit, which combined with his childhood love of dioramas and his career as an international affairs journalist to bring us Tactics Ogre and later FFT.

>>3832332
Matsuno was a journalist? How did he end up as game designer? Similar to the story of the dark souls guy and his bad English.

>>3831856
>You can get even more fundamental than stats and itemization before designing classes around them.
Agreed.

> I feel like charging in FFT doesn't get enough credit, maybe people don't really like it but I personally really like toying around with it and how you can target unit vs tile.
Charge Time (CT) is another cost to balance a skill with, along with MP cost, JP cost, power, element, status(es), formula, AoE, range, hit rate, vertical range, vertical AoE, really every aspect which can be changed is a possible debit or credit in the game economy. In many cases it is both, circumstantially.

Games where spells just go off immediately are shallower.

Note that there is a difference between spells which track while charging, and weapon strikes which do not track while charging.

> Another fundamental thing is movement. Something you rarely see is an attack command also moving a unit. Jump for example could land you in your new position instead of going back.
I could see that working as you select the enemy to jump on, and then the tile you want to land on afterwards, treating the enemy as the origin point, your remaining horizontal Jump skill as your move stat, and your remaining vertical Jump skill as your jump stat.

I can also see offensive and defensive use of repositioning, in the form of:
> Warp: a time magic spell that moves you to a tile, costing 10 MP per distance moved.
> Teleport: similar to above, but no MP cost and it takes your movement skill slot. Vanilla gives it a 10% fail rate per tile outside your horizontal move, I would expand this to vertical jump as well, and add more failure modes. Vanilla failure just wastes your move, keeping you in your original spot. I'd add a failure which teleports you to a random tile in your move and jump range, a failure which teleports you to a random tile on the map outside your move and jump range, and then a failure that removes you from the battle (but not the party). These would have to check for legality of tile movement.

Also: a pre-empt warp reaction skill which dodges an incoming attack by warping to a legal tile you can inhabit in your move/jump range, and then a counter warp which does the same to an enemy but within their move/jump range.

>>3831869
>Is it now permanent and unlimited?
Seems so, I had some friends test it. If you don't join in a timely manner I'll just delete it.

>>3831869
>Very unsure about brave and faith. They suit fft, but I wouldn't like to copy them blindly. Matsuo or whatever the designers name is tends to have wonky stats that end up in convoluted gameplay.
My only concern is being sued. I intend to copy them almost exactly, just with a rebalance. See my post here: >>3831570

Change the Faith formula for spells to:
> (50 + (faith / 2)) / 100
This gives you a floor of 50%, a ceiling of 100%, and makes each point worth half as much.

Change reaction formula to:
> (25 + (brave / 2)) / 100
This sets the floor to 25%, the ceiling to 75%, and makes each point worth half as much.

Change unarmed formula to:
> (base PA * current PA * ((brave / 2) + 50) / 100
This removes the overpowered quadratic current PA * current PA, sets the floor of brave damage modification to 50%, and the ceiling to 100%.

>>3832338
>Matsuno was a journalist? How did he end up as game designer? Similar to the story of the dark souls guy and his bad English.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasumi_Matsuno
https://www.resetera.com/threads/interview-with-yasumi-matsuno-development-of-ff12-his-mahjong-obsession-in-ffxiv-desire-to-make-games-for-adults-and-his-early-days-before-square.874947/

Apparently the Yugoslav War and break up of the USSR precipitated the plots of Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, and FFT.

>>3832365
Old news, the fft remaster is as bad as it gets. Kek at full price for a 30 year old game.

>>3832358
>He attended Hosei University for foreign policy but dropped out, and after working for a time as an economic reporter, he joined Quest Corporation.
Funny, hideo is an economist or has an economist background, too.

>>3806788 (OP)
Could games like fft profit from fog of war on bigger maps? Has to be (semi)random, if meta is discouraged.

>>3832358
i want another game about high fantasy trench warfare like the bozjan southern warfront

>>3832493
fog of war could make rogue/assassin/ninja more intresting

>>3832633
And scouting, too. Maybe having some skills, too. Skills as in non combat skills. There's rpg in tactical rpg. Sending troups like in fft is fun, but there should be actual rpg elements and interesting things to do out of battle.

>>3831570
>Easy as shit to tweak vanilla FFT for balance
Such tweaks are often pointless. Yell Cheesing simply isn't a serious gameplay flaw. There's no reason at all to fix it unless you're designing hardcore challenge content. Nobody uses yell cheesing unless they absolutely have to (or unless they are screwing around). So unless you're designing every single encounter to be so ball-crushingly hard that players feel the need to use an annoying and tedious exploit to get past it, there's no simply reason to nerf Yell in that way.

The REAL issue with speed in FFT is much deeper, and has no easy solution.

Speed doesn't scale cleanly with ability charge times.
This means as units gain levels (and speed), it becomes harder to land spells.
This is compounded by higher level spells having longer charge times.
Where should the threshold be? This is the challenging question.
When you are tuning spell charge times, what default speed rating do you balance against?
What level do you pick as the fulcrum?
You can only pick one, even though the game is split into several phases and has 99 levels. Do you make spells fire too fast at low levels, or take way too long at high levels, or both?

> zodiac system should be more subtle
All you need to fix zodiac is a visual indicator to resolve tedium. Hit a button while targeting a unit, and the rest of the units light up with compatibility.

> Faith breaking being too OP? Change the Faith formula to 50 + (faith / 2).
> Brave breaking too OP vs reactions & monks? Change reaction formula
More boring nerfs that serve no real purpose other than trying to counter some vague kneejerk sense of overpowered-ness.

>>3832493
>Could games like fft profit from fog of war on bigger maps?
Theoretically, sure. But you can only increase map size so much before it's not a "game like FFT" anymore. The dense, confined, and 3-dimensional approach to designing maps is a defining characteristic of the game. Each encounter is hand-crafted to each map and each map has a distinctive shape and tactical elements.

>>3832804
Speed really shouldn't be a stat you can increase outside of the rare equipment. What purpose does it make to have all units gain speed as the level if your aim is for your turn orders and speed differences to be a certain way? Just leave speed be mostly static and only be affected by current class choice and temporary buffs like haste. Equipment is ok too as long as it sacrifices other things for it.

>>3832811
>What purpose does it make to have all units gain speed as the level
The purpose is fun.
It's fun to level up units in and see their innate stats increase.
It's fun to have choice in how those stats grow throughout the game.


People often wonder why the original FFT is held in such high regard despite being such an old, unbalanced game with rough edges. This is why. Almost-smart designers identify a "problem" and then solve the problem in a way that kills a little bit of the fun, a little bit of the soul. Pretty soon you are left with a modern-looking, well-polished game that seems like it should be so much better than its inspiration, but somehow doesn't scratch the itch like the classic.

>>3832804
This is a lie, yell & accumulate cheesing is how people grind levels when they don't have steal gil, stat breaks, chakra, or weak free attacks available.

Limiting utility of such to 1/4 base stat may be unreasonable, hence why such skills could be made ally-targetable, possibly AoE, & limited to one stat / skill. Even 1/2 of base stat is generous: +3 SP early game is great, +7 PA late game is wonderful but not lolsworddkillz broken.

You're just contrarian.

Encounters are boring & easy if you pay any attention to your characters. Putting enemies closer to player's tier & more variable makes them much more fun.

>spell CTs
Literally just make them all 1+ steps faster.
1st tier: 50 CT
2nd tier: 34 CT
3rd tier: 25 CT
4th tier: 20 CT

Spells being fast early game doesn't matter because MP is limited then & they run out quickly. And there are a lot of dead clockticks & turns early game, it's free time. Furthermore this makes Short Charge more useful but also less needed, and it somewhat nerfs Calculate's insta-spells aspect.

Ooooohhh so hard to balance!

> More boring nerfs that serve no real purpose other than trying to counter some vague kneejerk sense of overpowered-ness.
You're retarded, brave/faith breaking is only blocked with a worthless support skill no one uses, and countered by a skill set nearly worthless in serious combat. It's also a prereq for JP grinding. Combat is so easy it's not needed, unless you close all the other loopholes then it becomes meta.

I've literally play tested my own mods that do this since 2009.

Faith breaking duplicates the effects of silence & for mages MA breaking. Brave breaking makes enemy reactions worthless, duplicates the effects of frog & PA breaking for 3 weapon types, & chicken is unrecoverable in a reasonable time frame. This is stupidly OP in any mod where you can't 1hko with lolswordskillz, 2 swords monk, or CT5 Holy.

>>3832804
That said, the effects themselves are nice, just not the extremes, so reducing their severity is fine.

You are a schlub if you see FFT mod & don't assume weapon power, sword skills, & quadratic monk aren't being fixed. And if you're one of those guys who thinks broken shit is le fine, I don't care - I'm doing my own thing.

>>3832807
Map size could stand to increase a bit, maybe 10% for the biggest maps and 25% for smallest, but often cramped confines are the point of a map.

Real issue for most maps is lack of variety in weather, terrain, height, and weather/terrain effects. For some this is the point - a small room where people quickly kill or be killed - but most could use variety.

>>3832811
The fun of a JRPG is watching your characters grow based on your decisions. The vanilla SP growths are fine, more jobs need actual SP growths IMO. For PA & MA too. However these growths should be the same up & down each branch of the job tree, & jobs moved around to account for that, so you don't feel compelled to rush Ninja for stat gains or something.

Jobs where turn order is baked into their skill set - jump, item, throw, calculate, & to a lesser extent steal & everything else that doesn't charge - should all be fast.

Jobs where SP can be counterproductive (attack mages, Aim/Charge skillset) or OP (knight, monk, samurai) should be slow.

>>3832857
With this in mind, a potential job tree.


Fast, PA focused
Ranger (Mustadio-style Archer), Thief, Lancer, Ninja

Slow, PA focused
Charge/Aim job, Knight, Monk, Dancer

Fast, MA focused
White Mage, Time Mage, Oracle

Slow, MA focused
Wizard, Summoner, Bard

Slow, PA/MA balanced
Samurai

Fast, PA/MA balanced
Geomancer

Very Fast, doesn't care about PA/MA
Chemist, arguably Mediator.

Ninja could be given guns & moved to Chemist branch. Geomancer could be lumped in with Samurai if Geomancy were better. Dancer & Bard really don't care about SP much at all, or they could beoved to special recruits since the duplicate effects. Lancer should be allowed to wear light armor, & it's sprite changed. Oracle could arguably become like FFTA Sage & get wind, water, earth + some debuffs the move to Wizard branch, & remaining debuffs + dark, drain, aspel moved to a new SP + MA mage. Charge/Aim job could become a weapons master heavy armor tank job. Mediator could be merged with Squire, or split with Squire into a mage base job.

>>3832864
Potential new job tree

Warrior base
Squire (utility, PA up, Brave up/down)

Mage base
Novice (utility, MA up, Faith up/down)

SP-only base
Chemist (requires early weak gun)

SP + PA
Ranger, Thief, Lancer

PA
Warrior, Knight, Monk

SP + MA
White Mage, Time Mage, Necromancer

MA
Black Mage, Sage, Summoner

SP-only
Gunner (throw), ???? (leftover job slot)

PA + MA
Geomancer, Samurai

>>3832857
>The fun of a JRPG is watching your characters grow based on your decisions
I don't care much about job based growths and much less about speed in particular since it's such an important stat. Your units grow by leveling up, getting better equipment and learning new skills. Job multipliers alone are fine if we were to have everyone grow at a default rate. Anyway that's my taste, it also makes it painless to switch around and try out new jobs without feeling like you're missing out on those sweet speed gains.

>>3832871
I understand where you're coming from & I hate rushing jobs, hence my desire to give all jobs stat growths that are the same in total, just allocated differently based on branch... If that makes sense.

It doesn't feel right to me that you spend 15 levels each as a Black Mage & Summoner & your MA is the same as a guy who did 30 levels as a Knight.

>>3832894
As a Black Mage you're gonna have a lot more MA than a Knight thanks to job multipliers. The difference comes from one being a master Black Mage that knows a lot of skills from the job while the other knows very little.
I can see stat growths as a useful system where you can customize a unit by leveling it up in multiple jobs to get a varied result. There is still an issue where the AI controlled generated units cannot do it so it's a bit unbalanced.
If you are gonna do that then there should be a failsafe to avoid "wasting levels". As it is now it just feels bad.
I still think that the easiest solution is to cut it all together so you can freely experiment with jobs stress free. But it could work I guess if there was a respec option readily available.

>>3832811
Double speed? Quarter defense. (it's realistic, too)

>>3832864
Aren't these the very same fft classes?

>>3832900
There's no need for a respec, just recruit another generic. Specials should get bonuses to growth a bit. 5 to 10% better growths.

-

It sort of feels like you're assuming I'll have the vanilla system where every job but Mime has the same MA growths or something, I don't think you're reading what I'm saying.

Every job under each heading gets the exact same SP, PA, & MA growths.

> SP + PA
> Ranger, Thief, Lancer
^ Good SP growth, Good PA growth, bad MA growth

> MA
> Black Mage, Sage, Summoner
Average SP growth, poor PA growth, great MA growth

Given that Ranger has the same growths as Squire, Novice the same as White Mage, & Chemist the same as Gunner, only the Warrior & Black Mage branches are affected by leveling up in a base job.

It wouldn't matter for AI units because every job in a branch has the same growths.

Not sure if I'm responding to bots or something or you just need hand holding to understand a table.

-

Furthermore level is not used in most formulas, just stats. Leveling up with no change in stats means gameplay largely doesn't change. Why level up equipment at that point?

-

All jobs having the exact same growths, OK, that could make sense, allows some progression... But it doesn't feel like anything I do affects it. May as well get to 99 as 5 monks then switch over.

>>3832904
Mostly the same. Some jobs get different gear or a different place in the job tree.

>>3832903
FFT doesn't have a defense stat, only HP. Some stats, statuses, & skills play roles in damage reduction but each does so mostly independent of the others.

>>3832921
Ye, there are multiple damage formulas. From a systems perspective tor is the better game, despite mechanics not working at all.

>>3832922
Complexity != Better Gameplay

IMO FFT is better because it's easier to grasp.

That said, armor in FFT would be better if it gave % bonuses to HP & MP.

>>3832942
>That said, armor in FFT would be better if it gave % bonuses to HP & MP.
Exactly
>Complexity != Better Gameplay
Finally someone using logic symbols. Truth is, that's not an unviersal rule. Some complexity or depth isn't bad, but systems should stay basic more often than not.

>>3832849
>This is a lie, yell & accumulate cheesing is how people grind levels when they don't have steal gil, stat breaks, chakra, or weak free attacks available.
This is silly. Grinding in FFT is easily accomplished without yell or accumulate. Accumulate already takes 300 JP in the shitty squire class to unlock. There are plenty of other ways to cheese-grind.
That's an even dumber reason to nerf those abilities.

>Spells being fast early game doesn't matter because MP is limited then & they run out quickly.
This shows you have no idea what you're doing. This is incoherent, ass-pulled rationale to dismiss the hard question. Which is:
>Under typical conditions, what percentage of a typical unit's CT bar should be filled, for a unit to gain a turn before a charged ability fires?
MP limitation does not affect the answer to this question even a little.

>You're retarded
No, you are. Only a retard could make claims like this, for example:
>Faith breaking duplicates the effects of silence & for mages MA breaking
This is just self-evidently stupid. Do I really have to explain why zero faith is not the same as broken MA? Do you just entirely fail to understand the basic mechanics of the game you want to mod?

>You're just contrarian.
I argue from first principles, that's all. That appears contrarian when I reject shallow fashionable ideas that ignore the deeper principles. Feel free to ignore my commentary if it's over your head.

>fixing weapon power
You are being vague. What "weapon power" problem are you talking about?

>fixing sword skills, & quadratic monk aren't being fixed
Try to follow along. I haven't discussed either of those issues at all.

>>3819398
>Resurrecting Algus
>good

>>3833001
>Accumulate already takes 300 JP in the shitty squire class to unlock
Stopped reading here. Lol, just lol if you don't roleplay your squad of lawful good knight generics mastering the squire job before progressing

>>3833015
>Stopped reading here.
Proving you're too lazy, arrogant and stupid to even process simple counter-arguments. Your mod will be another embarrassing half-baked mess of kneejerk ideas.

>>3833045
>Your mod
Buddy, I’m not modding shit, if I ever wanted to replay FFT I’d just emulate the original

>>3832916
>Every job under each heading gets the exact same SP, PA, & MA growths.
>Good SP growth, Good PA growth, bad MA growth
>Average SP growth, poor PA growth, great MA growth
This part is confusing to me.
>every job in a branch has the same growths.
Oh I see. Then you're not too far off from doing what I suggested and have everyone have the same growths regardless of job.
>All jobs having the exact same growths, OK, that could make sense, allows some progression... But it doesn't feel like anything I do affects it. May as well get to 99 as 5 monks then switch over.
I mean you're almost doing the same thing just splitting melee with magic a bit. Progression is still there since your units are getting stronger. What you mean is you lose a bit of customization from planning stat growths. I'm all for planning stat growths if they aren't a pain and your split does make it less of an issue. But I still think experimentation is more important in this game and being able to switch things around even from melee to magic freely makes it more fun to me.

>>3832922
>From a systems perspective tor is the better game
Eh not really. It has some nice stuff like weighted actions and movement as well as better longbow/crossbow targeting but instant spellcasting and damage formulas that depend on unit's stat differences are sore points.

>>3833009
Yeah I'll agree this was horrible. But what else was bad?

>>3833115
The Mustadio + Agrias storyline is cringy
Onion Knight is really boring.
Balthier and Luso are awkwardly shoehorned and their jobs are nothing special. Cloud was a fun Easter egg and his Soldier class is unique and interesting. The other two come off like cheap cross-promotion.

Dark Knight is OK and kind of a fun class, but it's thematically weird that you can unlock a dark knight but not any paladin-type class.

Far and away the best thing about PSP is the expanded roster size.

>>3833113
>damage formulas that depend on unit's stat
What does this mean? Stats should be in a damage formula. Do you prefer derived stats only in a damage formula?
>>3833169
Shame that hell and heaven knight are shit, especially hell knight. Concept is awesome, but execution is non functional in the battle system of fft.

>>3833169
>The Mustadio + Agrias storyline is cringy
Not really. Not any more than Cloud's whole shtick.
>Onion Knight is really boring
I liked the concept and it was also completely optional. I don't see the issue with more options.
>Balthier and Luso are awkwardly shoehorned and their jobs are nothing special. Cloud was a fun Easter egg and his Soldier class is unique and interesting. The other two come off like cheap cross-promotion.
I don't agree. I don't see Cloud as any different really since he was an awkward promotional material too. Luso could be done better because I think you cannot avoid the encounter. But again it's bonus optional stuff for people that do like it. Nothing comes close to Algus' treatment.
>Dark Knight is OK and kind of a fun class, but it's thematically weird that you can unlock a dark knight but not any paladin-type class.
You mean for your generics because you do have holy blade users. It's pretty whatever but it's nice that it's there.
>Far and away the best thing about PSP is the expanded roster size
It's convenient but my favorite parts about the PSP are the cutscenes and the added scenes for some of the characters like Wiegraf getting approached by the Templars.

>>3833171
The way TO calculates damage is that it first checks your stats vs opponent's, then it takes that overhead (if any) and applies percentage based multipliers, and finally it adds flat weapon damage minus opponent's flat armor value to the damage.
Doing it in this complex way means that you often have a sort of threshold based damage calculation. If you don't beat the opponent's stats then no amount of buffs will help with your damage but better equipment will. The more you do beat the opponent's stats then buffs like strengthen become better and equipment matters less. It's convoluted without real reason and often leads to things being impossible to kill or way too easy with little in-between.

>>3833173
>I don't see Cloud as any different really since he was an awkward promotional material too.
It's different. Cloud is a hidden character most players won't even see on their first playthrough, and it's clear a lot of effort went into him. The Soldier class is unlike any other and designed to be something fun for advanced players to mess with. Cloud uses MA-based, charged skills that do not use mana and aren't adjusted by Faith. Each abilities has a unique animations.

Cloud is an easter egg hidden in the game by passionate developers and is obtained through a simple little subplot with an Aeris cameo.

The only notable gameplay thing Balthier adds is "Barrage" which is basically the "X-Fight" from other FF games. Otherwise he's just a careless mashup of existing jobs. Luso is literally a clone of Ramza with innate poach and lower starting faith/brave. Very low-effort additions.

>>3833189
>Each abilities has a unique animations.
*Each ability has a unique animation.

>>3833176
>The way TO calculates damage is that it first checks your stats vs opponent's, then it takes that overhead (if any) and applies percentage based multipliers, and finally it adds flat weapon damage minus opponent's flat armor value to the damage.
I know. That's stupid.
>threshold
Indeed. +5 vit goes a long way.
>It's convoluted without real reason
Japanese way of doing media
>often leads to things being impossible to kill or way too easy with little in-between.
They weren't brave enough for tor. I dislike the itemization in to. Most of the time you don't have a selection for everyone.

>>3806788 (OP)
>You guys excited to see the "new" final fantasy tactics remastered?
not even a little bit
I'd be excited if the old talent made a new fft style game without anime bullshit
that'd be hella exciting

>>3833195
Apparently there's a tactics game in the making. Tor and fft were balloons and afaik are considered an success. Hope it's a new ip, as fft(a) might be restraining for new devs.

>>3830814
cdromance :^)

hoping someone uploads the new one vision there soon

>>3830986
better class balance is the most important thing I think.

>>3833108
>Then you're not too far off from doing what I suggested and have everyone have the same growths regardless of job.
It's halfway between "same growths for all" & "every job's growths are unique".

I'm splitting it based on offensive stat focus (PA, MA, both, or neither) and SP (high, average, low).

I play tested unique growths but the enemy AI is too dumb to pick useful skillsets, so I had to split the job tree into branches that remove suboptimal options. It comes at the expense of niche multi-class builds (Wizard with Steal Heart, Summoner with Draw Out) but the enemies are nastier.

Same reason I had to make mage only & warrior only accessories: dumb AI.

>>3833251
That's not terrible but to be honest a high SP job seems 99% superior to level up as and I'd still avoid low SP like the plague. It's funny that in vanilla MA is mostly the same for everyone but SP is the one that is different. Weird priorities.

>>3833199
from who? squeenix?

>>3833259
It works because I weigh SP different from PA & MA. 2 points of PA/MA is worth 1 point of SP.

So if a chemist ends up with 14 SP, their PA & MA would be 6.

Meanwhile an equivalent Knight would have 11 SP, 14 PA, & 6 MA.

Now if I give guns a more even WP distribution - say 3, 5, 7, 9 - then Chemist is very reasonable.

Qte elements in srpg: y o n?

>>3833583
Coalish, unless for minor stuff like better crits/procs, reducing incoming damage

>>3819254
That's why you play the original English version instead.

>>3810537
>>3811033
I was 100% convinced at first that Reborn pics was just some fag ragebaiting with an emulator

>>3833945
Convoluted quest structure. Oh, you want the super mage girl? Better make sure it rains at this very specific place. Super mage girl in picrel? Will only join you if you simp for her retarded people. (you can murder her mother alright, no biggy).

>>3833259
this is non traditional but I can see the merit behind it. With fixed MAG anyone who gets random spell access can cast an effective spell. This game was made after 6 and 7 which had lots of non traditional magic users.

Traditional? As in /compared to?
>>3834835

>>3834868
as compared to stacking magic stat to make your magic do more damage

>>3834873
To be fair FF6 had cheese in the form of earrings & hero rings.

>>3806788 (OP)
Is this based on dnd or any other ttrpg? Iirc there's an ff12 ttrpg. It's the same world, isn't it?

>>3833945

Someone make a separate thread for Tactics ogre, i wanna start playing the One Vision mod

>>3835729
I will start a new playthrough if someone uploads 1.11 + the low level XP fix prepatched to the secret new cdromance

>>3835690
FF1 has one creature that is not in the monster manual and its it's 'secret superboss' and uses spells per day , but after that FF quickly forks into its own direction with more original ideas like summoners and dragoons

>>3835980
>secret superboss in ff1
Which one?

>>3836232
warmech

>>3836398
Was death machine in my version, but I do remember now.

>>3825164
>I was playing the PSP version
eh, no wonder then that you bitch about it, PSP version is probably worst of the series if it comes to tedium and grind

>>3825214
>but they don't care, do they?
no they don't

>>3829635
Our adventuring Guild
it looks bad tho, art style look bad and writing is like early 90' anime level cringe but worse

>>3831992
no because nip publisher hate mods and Denuvo

>>3829635
dungeons of neheulbok

>>3837612
the combination of hotbars and tactical combat actually looks rather appealing

>>3837830
Care to elaborate? Like in bg3?

>>3839934
BG3's combat isnt very crunchy tho, its just a 5e port

>>3806788 (OP)
>No War of the Lions content
Eh, I'm fine enough since I've played the shit out of the PS1 version, but I'm sad that the extra Beowulf/Reis stuff will get the cut by proxy

>>3840288
>It's for a greater vision!
>Somehow they add only the easiest parts of WotL to add like the script, balance changes and the cutscenes
They are lazy or tight on budget and want to paint it as something else. I doubt they added anything at the level of "The lord of Lionel castle" or "Disorder in the order" in all of their story adjustments.

I'm fine with graphical remakes, even "AI" ones, I like the pixel remasters. But there's nothing about Tactics that would benefit from this imo, it looks fine as-is. It's a slow game but totally turn-based so a speedup wouldn't help much either. I also don't like voice acting and prefer text in general.
I guess they're looking to appeal to younger folk who didn't have a PSX as teenagers. I'm fine with more people experiencing the game, but it doesn't excite me at all.
I foresee this selling poorly or lots of ppl getting 2 hours in and dropping it.
They should've made an entirely new Tactics game in the same style and tone.

>>3840429
people think they are gearing up to make a new tactics game after this and reborn, and the feedback from triangle strategy

>>3840586
That would be dope.