Thread 3814238

>what are the good changes?
>the bad changes?

>>3814238 (OP)
>>what are the good changes?
Area looting.
>the bad changes?
Everything else.

>>3814286
>Everything else.
can't be this bad

>>3814288
It literally isn't. Most of what they added to the new classes and races are welcome changes. Or rather, welcome new stuff. Especially for classes that previously were often just used for multiclass dips. There is now a bigger incentive to play a full fighter, for instance.
They also changed some of the encounters up, made them more spicy. That sometimes can just be a named ogre that suddenly yeets on of your dudes around the map. Fun stuff.
People on the /vrpg/ call it bad because it's different. That's it.
Okay, some of the new items can be very overpowered. That overpowered stuff is mostly found in shops, so you can simply not use it. And it's often very expensive as well.
Really, I'm having a lot of fun with EE. It's great.

>>3814238 (OP)
>good
Almost everything. The best are the XP, item, and class overhauls plus the HoF rework, which all fix very serious problems with IWD2.
>bad
Some of the extra spells added to the game are overpowered. Creatures revision is noticeably harder than IWD2, which may be good or bad depending on your perspective.

>>3814322
List of things I want in an “enhanced edition”
>improved compatibility with modern OS/hardware
>compatibility with modern aspect ratios and things like borderless windowed mode and proper alt-tabbing that won’t crash
>optional and toggleable interface improvements and optional QoL tweaks
>bug fixes, if it’s genuinely a bug, and not an ambiguous interpretation of designer intent
>completely modular installations where the user can pick and choose what they want and don’t want
List of things I don’t want in an “enhanced edition”
>”modular installations” where you can turn off 80% of shit but the other 20% is baked in and non-removable because how dare you insult the modder’s vision of how the game should have been instead
>New content of any kind, no matter how much they insist it’s great and fitting
>Changed content of any kind, no matter how much they insist it’s great and fitting
>Rule or mechanical changes, no matter how much they insist it’s great and fitting
>“Updated and improved” translations
>new OP spells/items/races/classes/abilities/feats/kits/etc
Many modders are incapable of restraint. Stay in your lane. It’s supposed to be an updated version of the original game, for people who liked the original game, not your personal idea of what it should be been instead.

>>3814346
Noone gives a fuck about what you want or what you think a mod is supposed to be.

>>3814346
List of things I want in an “enhanced edition”
>A better game than the original that addresses problems with it
List of things I don’t want in an “enhanced edition”
>blind fixation on the original game
>a worse game than the original
>the same problems I dealt with the first time around

The “lady” doth protest too much, methinks.

>>3814357
>you are le trans modder!
No and no. The best official enhanced edition ever was Original Sin 1's which made extensive mechanical changes and additions.

>>3814346
100% correct. Couldn't have said it better myself.

iwd2 will always be shit because it uses turd edition instead of based white male ad&d

>>3814455
>instead of based white male ad&d
true. I never had fun with anything above AD&D 2nd.

>>3814238 (OP)
>fan mods
99% of all balance or design additions will be bad.
100% of the writing will be bad.
This is always the case.

Mods as at their best when they just fix bugs and improve visuals.

>>3814703
The best form of a mod is a comprehensive fix to a game. The worst form of a mod is a mod that adds nothing or breaks more than it fixes. You aren't special for liking the least controversial form of modding, you're a pussy.

>>3814455
Nothing puts more asleep than character creation in Baldurs Gate 1 and 2.

>>3814734
>you're a pussy for being objective
>you should like genuine crap like a badass (read: retard) like me!

>>3814753
You're not objective.

>>3814346
>>Rule or mechanical changes, no matter how much they insist it’s great and fitting
Fuck you, iterative attack penalty is the worst fucking decision ever made in the history of tabletop gaming.

>>3814348
and none of us want any of this shit shoved into games we already liked as they were
hes right
changes like this should be implemented in a way that they can be easily toggled on and off
anything else is basically paid mod territory. but arguably worse because i have to literally mod their mod OUT of the game in order to play it as it was
shits retarded
and the fact that these re-relase EEs usually bury the actual original version and make it difficult/impossible to get, is just insult to injury

These iwd2ee threads sure are always full of a bunch of calm, neutral, and disinterested anons who totally don't care if you play the mod, but are also absolutely seething if anyone says anything critical of it, or expresses dislike for it. It's very curious.

I like it but I understand why some people don't. That being said, I don't get why people are purists for the original game, it was pretty flawed.

>>3814901
Eh, it doesn't change some of the flaws, like some areas dragging on with too many fights that don't matter (looking at you, ice temple).
That said, it fixes some flaws with lackluster classes, feats not properly working.

>>3814238 (OP)
on one hand I'm disappointed there's apparently no source code to make actual enhanced edition based on, but on the other it would be fucking BEAMDOG doing it

>>3814860
Nah. Treating the original game as sacrosanct is idiocy.

So is it good or not if I never played this game?

>>3814838
Than make it a separate mod, ya dummy.

>>3814383
WTF are you on about? That's not a mod. That's the original developer going back and improving their game.

>>3816846
Yeah, I think it's overall an improvement.
Yes, grognoards will scream at you for not playing the OG original. But the Enhanced Edition doesn't change the story, the characters, or in general anything about the game past the loot, classes, races. Some encounters have some minor tweaks and some enemies can behave different. And in my opinion, for the better.

>>3814740
Post hands.

>>3815186
>sacrosanct
Quite the drama queen. Nobody said that. He's saying at a bare minimum you should be able to pick and choose which changes to use.

>>3816852
he didn't ask if the game is good. he asked is it a good think that he never played it.

>>3816850
Doesn't stop it from falling afoul of his list of wants for an enhanced edition.

>>3816890
>Doesn't stop it from falling afoul of his list of wants for an enhanced edition.
False, because they included the vanilla original game as “classic” as well as the changed version, so you could play whatever you’d like to. Precisely how it’s supposed to be.

>>3816893
And the OP stops you from playing vanilla IWD2 how?

>>3816976
NTA, but oviously that's not the issue. It's called a monkey's paw. Nobody wants a monkey's paw.

>>3814346
>Many modders are incapable of restraint. Stay in your lane.
Yep.
Pretty much.
It should be so simple, but they always overstep.

Personally I loved keeping my party at level 1 the entire game or suffer reduced rewards, that's soul

Can someone give me good reasons why AD&D style character creation is supposed to be better without an argumentum ad antiquitatem or a direct attack of the person asking the question?

>>3817341
less is more.

>>3817390
Just an empty platitude.

>>3817341
>better
Better than what? Do you mean char gen in the BG series or IWD1 compared to NWN or IWD2?

>>3817393
And true in most cases.

>>3817341
>Can someone give me good reasons why AD&D style character creation is supposed to be better without an argumentum ad antiquitatem or a direct attack of the person asking the question?
You rolled your stats, sometimes in order if your DM was strict, and your stats determined what character you would play. Sometimes you had a gifted character, sometimes you rolled shitty stats, and you went with it. Certain classes like paladins were balanced by having high stat requirements which made them rare. Your rolls determined what you were allowed to play, and your characters were downstream of your rolls. Additionally, different classes had different XP tables, as an additional asymmetrical balancing.

This is opposed to 3rd ed and later where you first decided your character, and then later intentionally chose stats to fit the character. This inverted the relationship, and eliminated the rarity of certain classes, and different XP progressions. It facilitates munchkin and minmaxing and optimization, to the detriment of roleplaying.

Personally I enjoy 3rd ed character building but it’s undeniable it lost some of the sovl of 2nd ed, bare bones though it may be.

>>3817341
There is an actual advantage: if a PC dies in an AD&D (or Basic D&D) game, it's trivial to make a new character quickly, even one that's higher level. The worst you'd have to do is Thief skills. In 3E that's not the case. You have too many decision points to make to quickly get back in the game, even at low-ish levels.

>>3817396
This thread is about IWD2, so yes.
All these have their own weird 3e stuff going on, but at least I have more choices during character creation than rolling for stats and weapon specialization.
>>3817405
>sometimes in order if your DM was strict
Doesn't matter in a video game. Rarely does anyone just pick the first stats he rolled.
Did I really need to specify that this is about video game character creation, when the initial post was about BG1 and 2?

>>3817424
>Doesn't matter in a video game. Rarely does anyone just pick the first stats he rolled.
By "stats in order" I meant the first number you rolled was for STR, the second roll was for DEX, etc. This is as opposed to "here are your six rolled numbers, now allocate them to your stats as you please".
>Did I really need to specify that this is about video game character creation, when the initial post was about BG1 and 2?
You asked about "AD&D style character creation" and I attempted to give you an informative and polite answer.. You didn't mention anything about BG1/2 and didn't quote a post talking about BG1/2. However, those adaptations do cheapen some of what I was describing, since in those games you pick your class first, and then roll stats that automatically satisfy the minimum requirements for that class, which cheapens the meaning of minimum stat requirements. E.g. instead of a minimum CHA of 17 being a rare and difficult value, boom you automatically have at least that. Classes such as paladin which are intended to be relatively rare by virtue of having difficult-to-achieve stat scores instead automatically have high enough scores to meet all requirements.

It's all academic in a game in which player stats are limited solely by player tedium tolerance, and you can keep clicking until you get high enough scores to make you satisfied.

>>3817455
>You didn't mention anything about BG1/2
I did, several posts ago. >>3814740
Why the fuck do I need to specify this, we are on /vrpg/. If I wanted to argue about DMs and rolling for numbers, I would do so on /tg/.
I did create so many different characters and parties in IWD2 (playing through the entire game is another matter), because it's actually fun for me because of the options. Did so far less in IWD1. To make it clear that this is not just about Baldurs Gate, but about the differences in editions.

>>3814238 (OP)
It's a fan mod. Into the trash it goes.

>>3817459
Ok buddy you asked a question and got an answer. I was trying to be polite, but you sound like a complete jackass, which is probably why you were complaining about people not wanting to answer your questions. Next time phrase your questions more precisely, or quote a post you are referencing.

>>3817424
>more choices
You say that like it's a good thing. Way too much bloat in 3rd Edition, imo. Most of those feats and skills are only useful in certain modules, but you've gotta sift through them regardless or even just take them anyway because there's no other choice. Giving me "choices" that don't matter is so fucken stupid. I also hate the standardization of character building. Everyone can be everything and do everything and has the same stats is just lame. The difference between classes in AD&D is huge, from the way you build them to the way you play them. Every class is distinct and race really matters a lot. You also underestimate the options that multi-classing and dual-classing give you in conjunction with kits and specializations. I understand why some people like 3rd Edition, but that autism is not for me. I'd rather just get to playing the game than messing around with all that bloat.

>>3817483
>You say that like it's a good thing
I'm not playing a rpg to have fewer choices.
>Most of those feats and skills are only useful in certain modules
Then that's a failure of the modules. You are probably talking about NWN, which has problems focusing on particular enemy types too much. Can't really say there are many outright useless feats in IWD2h (some are bugged, but though should be fixed in EE). This is also not all about usefulness. Even taking something very meh like "Heretics Bane" if it makes sense for the character is fun. "Heroic Inspiration" is another very questionable one that I love to pick for Barbarian and Paladin characters because flavor.
>I also hate the standardization of character building
A rogue being able to pick sword feats doesn't mean he can outsword the fighter. Multiclassing in AD&D games can mean that there is more standardization in classes going on. I can easily justify making 4 out of 6 characters x/fighter in IWD1.
>from the way you build them
It's just some points in weapon feats.
>Every class is distinct
The differences between the arcane spellcasting classes are minor, less so than in 3e. Far less differences between clerics and druids. Many classes having far less innate features and abilities.
>and race really matters a lot
For multiclassing, yes. But wouldn't say that in IWD2 I can just pick whatever and the race doesn't affect anything. Especially if you consider powerful races like deep gnomes, drow or Aasimar.
>You also underestimate the options that multi-classing and dual-classing
I think dual-classing is garbage but I can see you preferring 2e multiclassing. I think both variants have their benefits.
>I'd rather just get to playing the game than messing around with all that bloat
And that's fine.

>>3817500
Great. You just asked a question so you could argue with someone.

>>3817550
Sad! Many such cases.

>>3817550
Yes, I go to this website to talk to people about stuff.
And sometimes, we don't agree on everything.

Are there any good IWD2 EE reviews out there? Can't find anything on rpgcodex or rpghq.

>>3817825
Try here >>3814286

>>3817870
So I have to avoid this mod...

>>3814238 (OP)
There are plenty of changes. Always giggling when I think of the 10 years the people invested. Dedicated af.
>>3814286
Bit harsh, huh?

>>3814322
I dislike that there is no mean of finding out every detail that has been added.

>>3818053
I like it a lot. Very good mod.

>>3814238 (OP)
the scripting is broken. I literally get stuck at any of several events.

also whose bright idea was it to make the classes so overpowered that the game becomes a cakewalk?

>>3814238 (OP)
Music in Icewind Dale >>>>>> HUGE POWER GAP >>>> piss >>>>>>>> shit >>>>>>> EVEN BIGGER POWER GAP >>>>>>>>>>>> Icewind Dale 2 OST

>>3819407
Ate you using the latest version from the Red Chimera github?

>>3819407
No idea what you're talking about. EE's harder than the vanilla game.

>>3819546
Is it really harder?

>>3817463
you think a beamdog 'original' is better?

>>3820335
NTA, but that's a ridiculous assumption. Of course it goes into the trash.

calling your mod "enhanced edition", mimicking fucking beamdog, is sad as fuck. awful hackery and on top of that many changes are completely undocumented. dev and his discord goons hang out here, so they'll cry about this, but facts is facts.

>>3820324
Yes.

>>3820324
I just got through the drider lair and I don't remember them casting diseases and petrification all the damn fucking time.
Enemies are much more vicious in EE.

lol imagine if beamdog released just an updated visuals version iwd2 and blew this shitty mod out of the water with its garbage fan fiction. how fucking embarrassing would it be to have gotten owned by beamdog of all things.

>>3820454
I think people just pirate it. Im not including zoomers their opinions mean fuck all

>>3819546
>Paladin of Mystra / Sorcerer
>spell focus evocation
>combat casting, spirit of flame, scion of storms
>sunfire early game, living lightning mid and late game
>improved haste + true strike for bosses
>solo the entire campaign as a caster in full plate
lol

>>3820489
paladins shouldn't be able to become sorcerers. Paladins shouldn't be able to multiclass at all to be honest. Who writes these dumb ass systems?

>>3820492
3.5 was a helluva drug

>>3820489
But when anon breaks BG2 apart with his solo dualclassed (lol) kensai/mage, it's based and awesome.

>>3820324
First time I got to the Shanegarne bridge and those Malarite fuckers were casting hold person and summon nature's ally at will. Fucking 20+ summons at once. Absolutely slaughtered my party.

>>3820716
It's especially the spellcasters that they beefed up. They use a much bigger array of spells.
But also:
>Sherincal fight
>she activates Maximum Attacks and deletes half my party within seconds
Shat my pants

>>3820489
You realize that's harder to pull off than it is in vanilla, right?

>>3820492
>Who writes these dumb ass systems?
There was a time when players could be expected to occasionally roleplay and make thematically-appropriate choices, rather than always munchkin min-max and cheese

>>3820834
Yeah, before WotC bought D&D and brought in the deckbuilding kids.

>>3817325
why is she black now?
Is there some vile Negromancy afoot?

>>3820834
A Paladin of Mystra/Sorceror is thematically coherent, though.

Some people who like 3rd edition are the type of people who really enjoy playing with their character sheet rather than playing a game. You'll notice they are the "restartitis" types with CRPGs and they mostly talk about builds in threads. Sad thing.

>>3820723
>>3820855

>>3820853
>A Paladin of Mystra/Sorceror is thematically coherent, though.
How many paladin/sorceror builds have you seen where the player took mostly Paladin levels with only a small sorceror dip? How many have you seen where the player took an even balance of mixed pal and sorc levels?
Approaching zero.

How many have you seen where the player was just building a sorceror but took a tiny paladin dip in order to capitalize on the high CHA, gain weapon and armor proficiencies, get the CHA to saving throw bonus, and then promptly forgot that they were ever playing a paladin and never held themselves to the tenets, code, and restrictions of being a paladin, or roleplayed a paladin at all?
Every single one.

>>3820857
Yes, that's a post.

>>3820858
The latter is supposed to fall, so your problem is with bad DMs or bad implementation in video games. Roleplaying doesn't mean making a mechanically shitty character by the way.

>>3820858
>and then promptly forgot that they were ever playing a paladin and never held themselves to the tenets, code, and restrictions of being a paladin, or roleplayed a paladin at all?
Except in IWD2, paladin characters actually act different from regular characters, have some unique dialog choices and are in some situations forced to act in certain ways (immediate detect evil).
I don't think this really changes when you multiclass them.

>>3820863
They won't accept rewards

>>3821152
You also can't infiltrate the yuan-ti temple with a paladin or monk in the party, they refuse to don the robes.

>>3821165
Very interesting. Shame it's unfinished. Really curious how a bgt playthrough including iwd 1 and 2 feels.

>>3817325
>lawful thief

>>3821167
>Shame it's unfinished
Pretty sure you can finish the game from start to the end just fine.

>>3821173
Lots of fut content. I finished both games, both feel unfinished, iwd2 more so.

>>3821217
Cut content*
Ffs

>>3820858
Mystra is the goddess of Mary Sues, so it's still thematically coherent to have a caster in full plate wielding a great sword with zero chance of spell failure and having 20s in every saving throw

>>3814906
I always cast mass haste and literally run through the temple only resting when absolutely necessary

>>3820862
>Roleplaying doesn't mean making a mechanically shitty character by the way.
You're eloquently illustrating my point, anon. If a pal/sorc multiclass is thematically coherent and done for RP purposes, and not merely a powergaming dip taken solely to mechnically boost an otherwise-pure sorc build, then there's no reason why a player wouldn't consider building a mostly-pure paladin with a small sorc dip early in the career (perhaps an individual born with magic in his blood, but consciously seeks out order and discipline to control his talents), or a traditional AD&D style multiclass, where both classes advance simultaneously, and XP is distributed evenly among both classes.

But no one does that, because they're all munchkin faggots dipping a couple levels of paladin for their cheesy sorc build.

>>3820863
>Except in IWD2, paladin characters actually act different from regular characters, have some unique dialog choices and are in some situations forced to act in certain ways (immediate detect evil).
>I don't think this really changes when you multiclass them.
You're correct that in terms of how the game is programmed, it's simply checking for at least one level of paladin, in terms of dialogue scripts, however you're missing the point: it's about the intentions of you, the player, when it comes to roleplaying decisions and character building.

Do you ruthlessly loot every last copper from every peasant hovel you tromp through? Do you engage in needless bloodshed, and reject showing mercy to non-evil enemies, because you're mechanically rewarded with XP and loot for doing so? Do you metagame and make another character engage in dialogue, because you know that the paladin will refuse that quest reward you want? Do you keep your word, even when it's inconvenient? While playing, do you make the choices your character would make, or do you make the optimal choices that grant you the greatest mechanical rewards and power?

>Face It, You're Actually "Neutral Evil"

>>3821514
>it's about the intentions of you, the player, when it comes to roleplaying decisions and character building
I personally don't like making these kinds of weird multiclass-dip builds for powergaming (although, as others have pointed out, a paladin/sorcerer of mystra isn't really out of place), but if some people want to enjoy this kind of stuff, let them.
I know you are trying to pose like some epic fa/tg/uy grognard with your trve way of playing roleplaying games. But the fun part of these video games is that they are video games and you can break them with stupid bullshit while not annoying the other human players or ruining the day of your GM. People would use them to enjoy builds that wouldn't be possible in their actual ttrpg sessions.
Also, I will once again point out how people have been doing dumb solo dual-class bullshit powergaming with no relation to roleplaying or thought put into his backstory. Just in case you are still the faggot that defends 2e as this trve vltra-based system only for real roleplaying-apprecianatos.

>>3821593
If someone wants to be honest and say "I enjoy playing munchkin powergaming cheesy builds in single-player cRPGs and I do so because I find that fun" then that's reasonable. Like I said, just be honest.

What I object to is when someone does precisely this, but then lies about it and pretends "Um akshually it's because I'm interesting in the thematic concept of a paladin-sorceror multiclass due to its deep potential for roleplaying, yet I reject any possible form of this build other than the ruthlessly optimized pal 2/sorc X" which is obviously flimsy bullshit.

>>3822328
There's no reason you can't reject mechnically shitty forms of an idea while being interested in the idea. It's your hangup, not mine.

>>3822593
>while being interested in the idea
You’re not interested in the idea of playing a paladin. You’re interesting in the idea of playing a sorceror. Hope this helps.

>>3814703
Ironically, PoE2 mechanics improved after a player made mod made in beta was far more enjoyable than what the devs had cooked. The devs made changes based on it's feedback instead of continuing to ignore suggestions and complaints.
Too bad there was no way to do this with the rest of the story.

>>3822598
No, if I was interested in playing a Sorceror you're better off sticking to pure Sorceror because delaying your already delayed spell progression is retarded. There is nothing wrong with rejecting mechanically shit iterations of an idea.

>muh paladin dip! muh charisma bonus to saves!!!
Just cast protection from evil or mind blank, retards. Spellcasters don’t need to worry about saving throws.

>>3822833
Dip for your own good!
DIP

This is one of the most boring and bitter threads I have ever read. Why does this board exist

>>3829103
Old good, new bad - the board.
Now go, worship the rotten remains of games that came out twenty years ago.

>>3829123
>Old good, new bad
but its true tho.
Streamlining at the cost of removing complexity and trying to pander to the "wider audience" that doesn't exist have been a disaster for RPGs.

>>3829125
How the fuck is whatever this thread is about "streamlined"? An anon caused a massive argument because he praised 2e's simplicity, for fuck's sake.

>>3829128
>An anon caused a massive argument because he praised 2e's simplicity
Localized entirely within this thread? May I see it?

Is it possible to Icewind Dale II on Android.

I love it on desktop. I've played it to death but I'd like it mobile. And free.

>>3814455
REALITY ALTERING TRVKE

>>3829204
Rekt

Okay.

>>3829206
Gemrb runs on Android and they announced last year it is possible to play IWD2 from start to finish.

>>3831828
If you’re going to bump the thread off page 9, at least contribute something to the discussion, you absolute faggot.

>>3829128
>An anon caused a massive argument because he praised 2e's simplicity
Honestly, that sounds like something I would do. This thread is ancient, though, so I hardly remember.

>>3821170
Anon. They're called lawyers.

>>3832248
>politicians
Ftfy

It's honestly an achievement this mod took an already bad game and made it worse with a bunch of retarded bells and whistles like awful companions and useless spells

>>3833728
That's just like, your opinion, man.

>>3817405
There isn't a need for attributes at all after 3e because everyone goes point-buy and allocates the attributes the same ways according to the class' needs. It makes the system more smoke and mirrors than it is already. Is your wizard really going to have less than 18 int in 3e+? They're hobbled if so.

IWD2 EE mod is good, lots of fun stuff to play with
surprised how much hate it gets but most of it is probably not about the mod but the people who made the mod unfortunately

>>3833876
>There isn't a need for attributes at all after 3e because everyone goes point-buy and allocates the attributes the same ways according to the class' needs.
This is what let us to the default of 5th ed being the God-awful “standard array” where you get the same numbers as everyone else and plop them around as you please.
>Is your wizard really going to have less than 18 int in 3e+? They're hobbled if so.
Depends on if you roleplay at all or just munchkin min-max everything. One of my most memorable and fun to play chars in 3rd ed was a full orc wizard who spent all his points on INT and ate the -2 penalty to end up with a 16.

>>3836615
Yes, you're making my point, though I prefer going back further to rolling the stats entirely either in order or in an array where you can assign the results and just dealing with the outcome.

>>3836615
>orc wizard who spent all his points on INT and ate the -2 penalty to end up with a 16.
You unironically proved him correct.

>>3836668
Someone worried about “hobbling” themselves wouldn’t pick a race where they got -2 to their primary stat

I wasn't really nitpicking your orc wizard, though I suspect you took the attribute bonuses as you levelled up so he eventually got to 18 one way or another, its besides the point.

There is an argument to be made about playing the character you want to play whether for RP or for min/maxing but around 3e is also when the game itself seemed to start changing from an adventure focus to a more narrative focus.

>>3836674
Yet you chose to use the maximum amount of intelligence you had available.

>>3836689
>Yet you chose to use the maximum amount of intelligence you had available.
So did you when you wrote this post.
I was responding to “Is your wizard really going to have less than 18 int in 3e+? They're hobbled if so.”

>>3836678
>attribute bonuses as you levelled up
Yeah, stat inflation is dumb. 3rd ed introduced adventurers in the middle of their careers with stats approaching what used to be godlike levels.
>There is an argument to be made about playing the character you want to play whether for RP or for min/maxing but around 3e is also when the game itself seemed to start changing from an adventure focus to a more narrative focus.
Right, that’s what originated this discussion chain. I was playing devils advocate as to what was lost along the way with the introduction of 3rd ed with the shift in focus.

>>3836696
NTA but if we really want to explore it, what did you gain by reducing your wizard's INT like that? You gained a +1 modifier to whatever your strength score normally would've been (by boosting it by 2 points) while losing 1 charisma mod (not too big a deal for most wizards) and 1 int mod-but also losing access to spells of 7th level and above (which is a bigger deal than just losing on a single modifier point). Your saving throw DC also is reduced by 1 which in 3e can matter in some more difficult encounters.

If you plan to multi-class your orc from wizard before level 12 this is technically fine, though I admit its been some time since I ran or played 3e so I'm a little foggy on spellcasting advances while multiclassing.

None of this matters if what you actually care about is RP and only RP, but you did still max out your intelligence score on the character as the other anon pointed out which means you do at least somewhat care about being an effective character. I'm not sure how you arranged the rest of your attributes, but unless they were completely random it won't make that big a difference if your wizard has an extra point of strength mod or wisdom mod. Maybe an argument can be made for a Dex mod since it translates to AC, though.

>>3836704
>None of this matters if what you actually care about is RP and only RP
This. I wanted to make a goofy orc wizard. He was a lot of fun to play.
>but you did still max out your intelligence score on the character as the other anon pointed out which means you do at least somewhat care about being an effective character.
True, fair point. Personally, the way I enjoy building characters is beginning with a concept, and only then optimizing reasonably within the bounds of that concept.

>>3836709
That's what the rolling vs preset-spread argument typically comes down to yeah. A lot of players prefer to go with a concept they had in mind ahead of time.

But that's also why I think it doesn't really matter what the attributes are after 3e. Sure maybe you want to play the slightly dumber orc who aspires to cast spells but at that point since the classes kindof build themselves and there's no more randomization it really may as well just be hard-baked into the class itself. Maybe with an allowance for a racial mod.

Its not what I'd prefer obviously, I prefer the fully random roll method, I'm just arguing that something is lost by doing it this way and it makes it seem unnecessary to have it as a character creation mechanic at all, then.

>>3836712
I see your point. I have mixed feelings about 3rd ed, I enjoy it and the fidliness and customization of character building it provides, but in hindsight of how the game evolved (particularly looking at 5th ed) it’s hard to deny that the game broke away from some of its sovl and roots, starting with 3rd. This was my previous post on the subject >>3817405

>>3836717
I largely agree with you in that post.

The one thing I did like in 3e was simplifying saving throws, but I also liked the novelty of 2e where the DCs were tied to your character rather than an enemy. It made it so things like petrification or being poisoned were absolutes and what mattered was the character's ability to withstand things.

I only just now remembered we're in a vrpg thread and not tg, and about one of my old favorite games that I haven't played in some time, does the EE make IWD2 go back to 2e?

>>3836723
>does the EE make IWD2 go back to 2e?
Nope.

>>3836726
While that doesn't dissuade me from planning to enjoy IWD2 again...why should I install the EE then?

>>3836730
>why should I install the EE then?
Imo the only worthwhile feature they added was area looting (pretty cool), otherwise it’s a grab bag of stupid shit. They added a bunch of broken homebrew items, and spells and feats that weren’t in the base game. I don’t like kitchen sink mods like that.

>>3836733
Are they autistic or were they just trying to cash in on being the first to do it or something? That's dumb, you don't enhance a product by adding shit, you just make what's there better and able to be run on modern rigs more easily.

>>3836738
Tranny mod.

>>3836738
>you just make what's there better and able to be run on modern rigs more easily.
The base module does exactly that. Don't install the rest if you don't want the rest of it.

>>3836766
Will it really only do that with the base module? this thread somewhat casts doubt on that. Its been so long since I last played I think I won't even bother since I won't be able to tell whats new and what isn't, I'll just play it normal.

>>3817325
Fighting women in fantasy were already feminist propaganda. This is the right sequel to what was always liberalslop

>>3836968
>Fighting women in fantasy were already feminist propaganda
Naw. Men just wanted tits and ass in their parties.

>>3836836
That's fine, but you may have to do some extra tinkering to get it to work smoothly. I remember I had two issues to get it to work on W10. One was constant stuttering (major), the other was fog of war (minor).

>>3814346
Amen.
>>3814838
then get a mod that changes it, don't cry online and bug devs to change it

>>3814703
truth
but Edwin's original portrait did nothing wrong and is fine too. Same for the early version

>>3837005
I successfully replayed vanilla iwd2 on win10 a few years ago. There were some graphical issues, I think I had to get a direct draw wrapper .DLL to play nicely.

>>3836738
>or were they just trying to cash in
Anon, it's free.
Stop it with your dumb crusade.

>>3836595
It's about that and autism. There are actual things to complain about with it because it's not perfect, but it's always whining about changes at all or changes that aren't a big deal.

>>3814734
>a comprehensive fix to a game
Unfinished Business (BG2, I can't speak for the others) is exactly this. It is an excellent mod. Perhaps even the perfect mod. As far as I know it breaks nothing and adds everything that wasn't finished in time for release. The Sentrizeal collection is also quite excellent as well.

>>3837091
It implies they're clout chasers, that's what they're cashing in, the 'reputation'. Which isn't a big deal, but the post was asking and speculating on their motives.

Once an EE is out others will be disinclined from releasing their own unless its an official one, so generally you want these sort of 'Unofficial Patch' type projects to be made by people who have their heads on relatively straight.

Anyway, I have no idea, I haven't tried it and I'm not whatever other anon who has a crusade about it. Maybe it is actually all good and fine, this thread is my first impression of it though.