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This counts as Yellow in the OP

>>3819502 (OP)
ceroba is best girl

>>3819502 (OP)
posting progress naranja anon shared a while ago for those that missed it

Has anyone heard about this Yellow fangame? It's apparently had a page for months, and yet I've never heard about it until today

https://gamejolt.com/games/GoldenRenewal/937080

Seems similar to BnP, though it recently had a rebrand

>>3819656
never heard of it, seems like just a texture pack, or are they actually fixing the ending/giving starlo the fight he deserves?

>>3819666
> actually fixing the ending/giving starlo the fight he deserves?
There are already a few mods that address those things, namely Shades of Justice for the former, and Flawed Vengeance for the latter.
I believe there was also a mod called Dust Devils in development for a while that replaced Ceroba's genocide fight with a fight with Starlo and the Feisty Five, but I'm not sure that one ever came out.

Honestly, I feel like it'd be better to find some kind of middle ground for the genocide route mid-boss, as opposed to going with either Ceroba or Starlo exclusively. I mean, they both have their own sections of the game dedicated to them, so picking one or the other for genocide feels like one of them's being shafted no matter what.
So what if they were both the mid-boss? I remember seeing a piece of fanart of something like this a while back, but what if Ceroba and Starlo fought you at the same time? We see double-encounters a few times with the generic enemy encounters in UT, but I don't think I've ever seen anything like that done for a boss fight. It would probably be super hard to balance properly, but I could see it working well for story purposes at least.

>>3819688
shades of justice touches the ending? I know they added a lot of new stuff through the game but I though the ending was one of the things they didn't mess with (at least as of yet)

>>3819698
I don't believe it does, not yet anyway. Though I believe they have mentioned it in areas.

>>3819656
>UTY but we made it look like bits and pieces
Not a fan of the artstyle change, also unfinished, but the page is well put together, keep us updated, I'm interested in where this goes, if it gets finished.

>>3819698
I saw a video of the true pacifist ending on youtube a while ago, apparently they changed the ending to make the main cast a bit more hesitant towards the idea of Clover sacrificing themself, and they made it so they don't leave Clover alone once their soul is taken and stay with them until they're dead.
Yeah, this video goes over some of the changes made in the ending: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEyoh7VTHhk
I still think it'd be nice to have a version where the main cast outright opposes Clover sacrificing themself, and Clover ends up slipping away to Asgore's castle by themself as a way of sacrificing their soul by taking on a battle they can't win, but meh.

What if Roba was Kris' mother in Deltarune? Hard mode: scenario where he survives.

>>3819708
Don't make me tap the sign.

>>3819704
it's not fair

>>3819704
it ain't perfect but its better than the orignal

>>3819708
Roba would be a fine mother in the DR universe. I'd be more concerned how Chujin would be as a father, since there's no blue vax to kill him. He was good towards Kanako, but Kanako wasn't a human.

>>3819731
It's not like Chujin would even consider the possibility of adopting a human, anyway.

>>3819731
NTA, but I like to imagine it wouldn't take too long for Chujin to warm up to Kris thanks to Ceroba. Although there'd probably be some cognitive dissonance with him constantly spilling his spaghetti talking about those damn ningens while also treating Kris as part of his family.

>>3819704
You know, for all I think Undertale is the superior game, I still don't understand why I start crying for Clover's death and not things like the Asriel hug.

>>3819744
Kris already hates humans, so he'd get along great with Chujin once he reaches uncle Tom status.

>>3819753
>Kris mutters under his breath about ningen
>Chujin decide then and there Kris is a true part of the family

>>3819745
it goes without saying but you spend more time with clover than you do with asriel, even if you are counting while he's still flowey, and while yellow has its flaws, it did a good job giving the cast personality. the shades of justice rewrite isn't perfect but it properly fucks me up nonetheless.

>>3819745
Clover didn't deserve to die. Asriel didn't deserve forgiveness.

>>3819773
>Asriel didn't deserve forgiveness.
You didn't understood Undertale's message and are now banned from discussing it.

>>3819772
Which JoJo panel is this a reference to?

>>3819773
> Asriel didn't deserve forgiveness
The neither do (you)

>>3819785
my gut says its part 5 but its been years since I read that.

>>3819788
do you at least remember the original context?

>>3819753
Instead of Noelle he'll be pranking Chujin's human colleagues during bring your son to work day using a bunch of DIY'd toys and gadgets

>>3819804
>Chujin's human colleagues
I don't think he's had any of those for a very long time

>>3819801
not even a little but If I happen to spot it I'll link it. with as generalized and unhelpful as search engines have gotten you'll probably find it faster by re-reading part 5/6

>>3819778
NTA, but forgiving Asriel wasn't the point of Undertale, the idea of granting mercy even to those who are hostile to you was. There's a reason why forgiving Asriel and hugging him are choices, and why you can still get the pacifist ending even without doing those things.

>>3819745
Clover dying is more of a permanent goodbye to their friends, at least depending on whether or not you think the six humans got revived at the end of UT.
Asriel turning back into Flowey sucks, but at least he technically still gets to live, even if Flowey is really only just a copy of Asriel's memories and not the real thing.

Current undertale fangames that aren't canceled: Ts!underswap (but they're going bacj to respeite the demo so they're probably fucked.) Undertale kindred spirits. (But I haven't heard an update in a while). Undertale Wildfire (stronger chance of any fangame coming out. Furfag game all the way though.)

>>3819502 (OP)
Why do people say "KINGS CHARIOT" when it said "Nothing can stop the queens chariot"? I mean I guessed that's why Kris himself slashed the tires of Toriel's car.

>>3819785
>>3819788
>>3819801
>>3819815
It’s when Diavolo punches through Bruno

>>3819843
ah yeah honestly that makes sense given the scene

>>3819837
>Furfag game all the way though
It’s a hmofag game though.

>>3819837
Don't forget about our local fangames like DRY1 (has the most content so far and can be played), DRY2 (Still finishing the battle system, seems very ambitious) and Undertale Naranja (has a one fight demo and posted progress recently)

>>3819856
I've heard that there's two DRY, what's the story behind that? Did two people just want to do deltarune yellow at the same time or are they connected?

>>3819852

Same shit, just different flavors. It's herbs and cheeses or wheat, you're still eating Subway. Luna dosen't seem like an awful love interest, but it's kinda iffy that they haven't released shit about her personality.

>>3819856
we have more than that
(also i might be missing some of the newer ones, please tell me if im missing anything)
>>3819860
tl;dr:
>thread came up with a bunch of DRY concepts
>DRYanon1 started his, made very good progress
>eventually dropped it in favor of an original game.
>DRYanon2 (me) picked it up and used some of his sprites to kickstart
>lazy, but i've been chipping away at it
>DRYanon1 came back to it since his game team is busy, put out a chapter and a half after a few people convinced him to
>gamejolt anon (otherwise known as toastemperor on gamejolt) uploaded it for the public (with permission)
im still lazy, but i've been getting back into it properly.
however i have also been absorbed into vintage story and have to smith items for eight fucking people.

>>3819865
Good luck with the stuff, man.

>>3819839
It's because of the joke of Asgore hitting Dess with his car.

>>3819861
I know I was just fucking around
>it's kinda iffy that they haven't released shit about her personality
What is her personality even supposed to be? She’s cute but I played the combat demo and she wasn’t mentioned at all. Is she just another Noelle/DRYnako?

>>3819837
>Furfag game all the way though
I thought that would've been implied by the "Undertale" in the title.

>>3819872
>Noelle/DRYnako?
You say that like they're the same thing. Noelle and Kanako are very different, with the only similarities being that they're conventionally attractive women.

>>3819875
They’re similar enough to where I’ve seen multiple Kriselle images redrawn to be Kanaclover. Honestly considering who her parents are I feel like Kanako should start off like a mix of Susie (her mother’s temper) and Berdly (her father’s ego), and as she gets to know Cole more she’s mellows out into being a nice girl like Noelle, but I won’t tell DRYanon how to make his game. This is just what I would do if I made a DRY story.

>>3819872
Hope not. The game hasn't come out at all so we don't know at all. They're keeping it secret I guess. We'll find out when we find out?

>>3819879
>nice girl like Noelle
She's not though. She looks outwardly nice at first glance, but she's a sadist, a masochist, an absolute freak, and such a simp that she'll be shitty towards her lifelong friends just for the thought of getting abused by a purple dinosaur.

>>3819879
kanako was always planned to have a violent side inside of her that you can bring out if you are too violent, tho I made a mistake on first go of chapter 1 where I went too far into underfell/deltatraveler territory with the weird route, I am adapting the story to still kinda keep that but it isnt a distinct "weird route" anymore, kanako just gets more violent in some cutscenes (which were planned for later in the weird route and more edgy but I will adapt them to fit better now)
I will consult with a friend of mine that is better at writing than me and is also a DR fan so I will make sure that it won't be as bland/cringe as the first go was

>>3819891
That sounds interesting. Thanks for the reply, I really liked DRY overall but this sounds better.

>>3819891
I think the violent side should be ever present. Even if its not in a serious moment, she's still the same person, so she should possess all the same personality traits. Just play it off as a joke during most of the scenes, but when things get serious, you show that its a real problem.

>>3819898
yeah I'm still trying to fully figure it out, hence having someone else with actual writing experience help me should hopefully make things better

>>3819898
I feel like it'd be super easy to accidentally Bro Strider her character if you handle it like that.
People don't necessarily display all of their personality traits in every given context, there's more nuance to stuff like that.

How would the kanako-cole dynamics be affected if kris was adopted by her family? (DRY)

>>3819891
This implies that the game will have a Karma bar-styled mechanic where kanako becomes meaner or nicer depending on your dialogue choices or battle actions:
>Very good karma: Kanako is pretty nice and friendly (but it doesnt mean she's pure good or perfect either, she still acts like herself after all)
>good karma: i guess itd be pretty close to canon kanako morality-wise?
>Neutral karma: a more Pragmatic version of kanako, could be compared to chujin in a way
>bad karma: edgy/emo kanako
>evil karma: kanako being more psycho-crazy, especially by the end of the game, maybe its this if you do spare quite a bunch of enemies in the weird run
>very evil karma: weird run's point of no return and if you act mustache twirling evil the entire time, sadistic kanako

>>3819903
personally i'd suggest simply having hints of it here and there, but its not really prominent unless you're trying to bring it out.
thats how it'll work for the DRY2 geno stuff, like kanako getting ultra possessive over cole if you're genosliding with her.
on the normal route, it'll sometimes show from time to time. for example whenever the "cole might be gone soon because of the fuckass court case" problem pops up she actually becomes very upset and anxious while the rest of his friends just get sad.
geno with her however, it starts to become a greater and greater problem because it becomes more active and omnipresent. to the point that she'd be willing to attack chujin after his usual anti human rants that mention cole rather than rolling her eyes like usual.

>>3819922
>to the point that she'd be willing to attack chujin after his usual anti human rants that mention cole rather than rolling her eyes like usual.
Bad example, i would like to see that happen

>>3819912
>Bro Strider
I don't know what that is.
>People don't necessarily display all of their personality traits in every given context, there's more nuance to stuff like that.
No, but they do display them more often than just during life changing catastrophes. Have you ever lived with a person who has anger issues, its not something that's hidden or hard to notice. Little things here and there always show it. Them taking things more seriously than they should, not being able to take a joke, getting extremely mad after dying a couple of times in a game, spiking their cup into the ground because they accidentally spilled its contents all over the floor. Obviously they aren't a ball of anger and fury 24/7, but they do have very little patience for annoying things, and are easy to set off.

I can understand not making Kanako such an advanced case, but something like her giving someone a mean look when they make a joke at her expense, and them immediately shutting up, or a poster in her room covering a hole in the wall goes a long way to making her feel more like a person.

Plus I really think it could make for some funny moments if she were more dynamic in scenes. Like if during that basket ball minigame, she'll get mad and yell at the basketball guy for hitting her. Or later on you could have a mini game where Kanako has to be the player, and she gets really mad when she loses. Could even have a bit of rubber banding in the difficulty where, if you fail the puzzle enough times, she smashes it with her kanabo and gets to progress anyway.

>>3819922
>cole might be gone soon because of the fuckass court case
What's the deal with that again?

>>3819919
Evil Kanako should be less moustache twirling villain, and more severe untreated BPD. She's petty, holds grudges, is combative, and isn't willing to be charitable to anyone.

>>3819922
>to the point that she'd be willing to attack chujin
I'm imagining a shouting match or maybe even her slapping him, not so much something like a punch.

>>3819925
>I don't know what that is.
TL;DR, a character's violent traits initially making perfect sense and fitting in with a story's setting and tone, only for those traits to later be completely flanderized and blown out of proportion to the point that it starts to make the rest of the story not make as much sense if you think about it. Happened with Bro Strider in Homestuck, he was initially just a slightly weird anime inspired badass who frequently dueled with his younger brother for the purposes of training him, but later in the story he was rewritten as an abusive asshole because the story decided to recontextualize everything he did as being weirdly grounded as opposed to obvious fantasy nonsense violence.
Basically, I feel like approaching Kanako's character like
>Just play it off as a joke during most of the scenes, but when things get serious, you show that its a real problem.
It'll be real easy to fall into that same pit. Not necessarily in the same exact way, but I feel like it'll be hard to avoid making it feel weird and clunky this way.

>>3819923
how about sadie's reclusiveness getting so bad that she becomes a full shut-in out of fear and misses some of the chapters she should be in because of it?
>>3819926
>martlet signed up to take cole in for foster care
>the two became properly bonded, but she forgot to upgrade foster care to proper adoption
>by the time she remembered she was rudely met with a human couple trying to adopt cole themselves
>so she went to court to try and prove that she should be cole's mother.
>in any other court, time together would've been enough but its a human run court so lol lmao
>court case has been going on for a while by the start of the game
>cole and his friend group are reasonably on edge about it.
>martlet usually misses cole before he sleeps because of how long it keeps her out
>tells him how the previous day went at the start of the day before flying off
>this determines cole's "stress" level
>higher stress increases cole's face shading (having none in most cases), and increases his attack in exchange for defense in the dark world
>normally, stress clears after beating a dark world.
>if you do geno with him through a dark world, stress will not clear. and the next day's stress will add up

>>3819932
>It'll be real easy to fall into that same pit. Not necessarily in the same exact way, but I feel like it'll be hard to avoid making it feel weird and clunky this way.
This is how deltarune approaches its characterizations. Like with Susie, she's a cartoon character doing slapstick violence in her comedic scenes, but then in her serious scenes, we see how that violence can seriously hurt people. Or with Noelle, we see her repressed weirdo side come out in comedic ways in chapter 2, but in the weird route you dom her into murdering her best friend, and then she thanks you for (mind)raping her because she's into it. Or even with Kris, he turns from silly goober to potential serial killer at the drop of a hat.

>>3819934
>MGS4 stress meter
Right, and I'm guess that the overall stress level throughout the game and by the end will determine the outcome of the court case, since Cole's well-being would be a factor in determining custody?

>>3819931
you have no idea how far im willing to make the funny animal people fall because you decided to make them kill a bunch of darkners.
keep in mind im talking about actually red-dusting them and not just making them flee.

>>3819935
>This is how deltarune approaches its characterizations.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily a fan out how DR's been handling the main cast either, at least in the most recent chapters. Obviously some dissonance with Kris is to be expected, their entire story centers around them not being themself, so that's a given. On the other hand, I kind of hated Susie's characterization in chapter 4, at least in the first light world and dark world sections. In the dark world specifically she had a lot of "does everything wrong, other character does thing right, assume she had it right the whole time" shit going on, and that just really annoyed the shit out of me. Ralsei was somehow the most well-written character by virtue of him telling Susie to git gud or gtfo with her healing, I actually liked him taking things more seriously.
God, chapter 4 was the plate drop the game needed so badly.

>>3819934
Then what would happen if you abort the weird run after sadie becomes a shut-in? Do you just get a special sadie-less neutral route?

>>3819937
Still, Kanako starting a shouting match at the dinner table, ending with her slapping her father in the face would hit the player a lot harder than some edgelord scene where Kanako beats up Chujin or gets her ass kicked by her father. The instant regret of her realizing what she's just done and what consequences that would bring are a much more interesting route. I imagine after she did that, the whole room would go silent, she'd feel triumphant for a second until she remembers her parents are a super strong tard fox with anger issues and a seven foot tall ubernerd with an ego. The only real option she'd have is to run away. She'd probably end up sleeping in the dark world, because there's no way she could stay at any of her friends' houses without being dragged home.

>>3819938
>Ralsei was somehow the most well-written character by virtue of him telling Susie to git gud or gtfo with her healing,
>chapter 4 was the plate drop the game needed so badly.
I hated Ralsei and I disliked chapter 4 for being too serious. I think we may just have fundamentally incompatible priorities.

>>3819941
Do you get to comfort her weird run-style by telling her that she was right or something? If so, kino

>>3819943
You run away with her, obviously. And then she takes that as an implicit agreement that she was in the right.

>>3819942
What do you dislike about Ralsei, out of curiosity? These threads have inspired me to write a story with a rather different take on the character, and I'm wondering what kinds of approaches to his personality you might consider more appealing.
Additionally, since you dislike chapter 4 for being too serious, what would you consider a more ideal balance between funny and serious moments? I will mention that I greatly enjoyed chapter 4 and consider it the best thing Toby has ever made (after The Baby is You of course).

>>3819944
>Cole and Kanako cuddling together in the dark world
Perfection...

>>3819946
>What do you dislike about Ralsei,
First of all, he took off his hat, refused to put it back on, then reduced to atoms so it could never again be put on his head. Then he wrenched control away from me multiple times so he could speak with Kris, alone. He wants Suselle to happen. He's always hiding something, not just from Susie, but from me. Even now, after his "confession" he's still keeping all the same secrets he was before, and now everyone else is commending him for it. I deeply suspect him of plotting against me. The things he does towards other people seem genuine, but everything he directs towards me is either obvious placation or misdirection. I wouldn't be shocked at all if his plan was to shove me in a fridge at the end of the game so everyone else can live. He's an asshole towards Tenna. And he's just generally too much of a faggot.

He used to be my favorite character back in the chapter 1 days.

In terms of how to make me like him. Either make him be honest, put the hat back on, and act less gay, or portray his bullshit as being a bad thing and have the other characters call him out for it.

>what would you consider a more ideal balance between funny and serious moments?
Chapter 2. I wish the whole game stuck to that formula of silly adventures, with a darker story lurking just under the surface. I don't like the crazy anime arc with the generic world ending monster boss and the soulless evil dark creature enemies. I want personality above all else, I don't care about stakes at all.

>>3819936
dont wanna talk about how it actually influences the case since thats ending stuff.
but stress will massively influence light world segments. some activities become locked, cole can refuse to take off his hat, and later on cole will just outright refuse to do anything that isnt going straight to bed after the dark world.
>>3819940
what i want to do is...
>"mainline" geno
you kill with cole and/or kanako, with three separate outcomes based on who. stress with cole, obsessive with kanako, or "JOY" where you kill with both.
geno's dark world events will be locked in after the first lightner kill. if you abort you simply stop killing lightners and change how light world events play out.
it wont be possible to kill lightners with cole or kanako if you havent been following genocide.
>character branches
available no matter what your current route is (but will obviously fuck up the good route)
including that character in attacks during their first encounter, and ending it lethally, will enable their geno branch. as long as battles are ended with lethal attacks while they are in the party their branch will continue.
character branches wont matter too much for mainline geno, aborted or not. other characters will stop getting involved after a point during geno.
>>3819941
thats actually kinda close to my current plan for a moment like it. but it wont involve her running away.

>>3819502 (OP)
Are there any proper tutorials for Kristal? I haven't found a single video for it strangely enough

>>3819959
Which lightners are killable?

is there a spreadsheet or list?

>>3819913
>older sibling Kris
I can see Kanako taking after Kris' freaky mischief nature, so she may or may not try to mess with Cole a little at the beginning expecting to scare him off, only for him to roll with the punches (probably to her own amusement)

>>3819977
she is a kitsune, would only make sense for a prankster human to help ignite her trickster nature.
>"kris!
>"yes kanako."
>"i've got this boy i like right? but he's not getting mad at any of my tricks! he's even learned how to counter them!!!"
>"have you considered that this might mean he likes you. thats how i found out that noelle likes me"
>kanako stares at kris with an open jaw like he just said something reality shattering

>>3819969
You're the first person I've seen mention Kristal in these threads. I can't speak from experience since I haven't used it myself, but I imagine the most comprehensive learning resource for it is the documentation.

>>3819913
Kris is now an incestuous pedophile instead of a mere rapist.
t. (Me)

>>3819973
>is there a spreadsheet or list?
of what?

>>3819951
>Chapter 2. I wish the whole game stuck to that formula of silly adventures, with a darker story lurking just under the surface.
That would have gotten stale very fast and you know that.

>>3819977
>>3819987
I like the idea of Kris and Noelle playing the role of older siblings, but holy shit poor Noelle, having to deal with two goblins at once. Also I wonder how Susie will fit in this situation - she could actually befriend Kanako the same way she befriended Lancer, but Cole is definitely going to be against it and will try to protect her.

>>3820073
susie would get annoyed after two sans tier pranks.

>>3820070
That was the likiest interpretation of 3+4 before release.

>>3820070
>That would have gotten stale very fast and you know that.
You can keep it fresh, for seven chapters at least. It just requires some creativity. You just have to give the dark worlds variety and make the villains of the week be distinct from each other in new and interesting ways.

I've seen anime use villain of the week formats for years and not get stale, Deltarune can do it for 7 chapters.

>>3819977
>Kris's freaky mischief nature
I completely forgot about that. That + his natural hatred of humans + him inevitably putting on fox ears to look more like the Ketsukanes will give Kris honorary kitsune status in Chujin's eyes.

>>3819987
i'm imagining a kris that's asriel's age (i.e. college age) from this conversation, and i think that'd be a good way of differentiating him from cole in that universe

>>3820247
If anything, wouldn't Kris be younger? Since Clover and Kanako are older than Frisk in the UT universe.

>>3820252
i suppose you could make that argument, but you could also argue that chara is older than both of them

>>3820254
Chara is Asriel's age. We see in DR that Kris is younger than Asriel.

>>3820260
>We see in DR that Kris is younger than Asriel
Only by a couple of years. That's nowhere near the chronological age gap between Asriel and Frisk.

>>3820252
I think that whatever winds up the funniest scenario should happen, young or old which one would be funniest kris to see wreck shit.

>>3819973
The list of fangames?
There was a spreadsheet like that but it was 99% of "never ever" projects and Undertale Yellow.

Are there any fangames other than Wildfire and Cooking With Kindness that have more than 1% chance of getting finished?

>>3820342
There's probably going to be one or two of the "Fanmade chapter 3!" Type. For more original content Deltafall (Isn't trying to be chapter 3 but it's own thing) seems likely. Its a deltarune fangame about artificial dark worlds. It looks good, so there's that.

>>3820344
link for the deltafell project?

>>3820345
https://gamejolt.com/games/deltafall/863784

Deltafall, not fell.

>>3820342
DRY1 obviously, it already has more playable content than most fangames
I'm also optimistic about the other fangames from this place

>>3820346
Its got some funky UI.

>>3820351
Funky good or funky bad? I like it, at least they're doing something unique. You'd be surprised at how rare that is in the fandom.

>>3820352
NTA, the UI is pretty insane, it might even be too over the top for some, I've been seeing teasers from this fangame for over a year on Godot's subreddit

>>3820352
Funky as in weird. I don't know what to make of it.

>>3820358
It'll probably feel better when using it in game. I can see why just looking at it might turn you off, though. Guess its another "wait to see if it works".

>>3819744

So, how that "Kris Ketsukane" AU would work?
- What ages are everyone? Is Kris and Noelle in college while Cole and Kanako are in HS, or is Kris and Noelle in HS while Cole and Kanako are in elementary?
- Which household Cole is from? Would make a lot of sense for him to be Dreemurr, given how Asgore is a cop and a fan of cowboy shows.
- Did Dessappearance happened in this universe? If not, do we move it all one age group down, with Noelle or Susie taking the role of Knight?
- What are the relationships between families? It is definitely possible for Carol and Roba to be friends, though it will most likely follow the "boke and tsukkomi" dynamic.

>>3820409
>Is Kris and Noelle in college while Cole and Kanako are in HS, or is Kris and Noelle in HS while Cole and Kanako are in elementary?
Those would both be true at different points in time
>Which household Cole is from?
Probably still Martlet. I kinda figured it was just Kris in the DRY town. Otherrwise it would probably be both towns merged together.
>taking the role of Knight?
Implying it even has a knight. Maybe they have the outlaw instead.
>It is definitely possible for Carol and Roba to be friends
they were part of the "asian culture" (weeb) club in highschool, alongside Alphys. As a side note, Alphys is incredibly jealous of Roba for getting to live her dream anime life.

>>3820074
>>3820073
>Susie starts bullying Kris
>Kris instantly sees right through her and just starts goading her
>Kanako, not realizing what's happening, decides to confront Susie on her own
>tells her to leave her brother alone
>Susie manages to successfully scare her with her typical "eating your face" routine
>Cole intervenes and stands up to her
>when he refuses to back down, Susie almost hits him
>she realizes it's low even by her standards and comes apart at seams
>Kanako falls head over heels for Cole
>which means she pranks him twice as hard now

>>3820490
>Susie manages to successfully scare her with her typical "eating your face" routine
No, Kanako would turn it into a nigga moment

>>3820507
More the reason for Cole to interfere

demo for undertale promise (the yellow prequel with integrity) scheduled for august 15th

>>3819913
Chudjin would never

hm, should I put the toriel shirt in cole's light world design? (not changing dark world, too lazy to redo all the sprites)

>>3820569
No, that sprite is ugly as hell. Keep the one you have. Plus I'm pretty sure that shirt is some kind of gay flag.

>>3820569
honestly? no.
aside from the sprite just being ugly, i really dont like the "striped shirt!" meme.
people only do it because of the toriel flashback, but that part was supposed to be kinda fucked because it was toriel taking away the bits of personality that clover liked, keeping them out of reach (top of the bookshelf) and replacing it with her own idea of what he should be (just one of HER children)
of course, the fandom completely failed to read the room. like usual.
also yeah that shirt looks like a fag flag, not sure which one but i know i've seen it before.

>>3820576
>>3820572
alright, just wondering because I've seen many DRY takes with it but I like the current cole sprites so I won't be changing them

>>3820577
im not over exaggerating when i saw this, the 4chan DRY cole sprites (yours and the edits DRY2 makes) are arguably the best of them, same goes for integrity.
it feels like most of the fandom just doesnt get how to do UT/DR humans.

>>3820572
>>3820576
It’s not a pride flag it’s the CWC classic which might be worse.

>>3820587

>>3820587
i do not know what that is.
do i want to?

>>3820590
Chris Chan's shirt.
>>3820587
His is blue and red, not purple and pink

>>3820591
oh thats why i didnt get it, because its not even remotely close. anyways im still pretty sure its a fag flag.

>>3820593
It kind of looks like the bisexual flag bit I think it’s just meant to be a striped sweater like Frisk’s

>>3820593
>>3820594
Quit getting your panties in a bunch, it's just a tricolor shirt. Any striped pattern of colors can be made to represent *some* random thing, but as long as that thing isn't popular, it doesn't matter, and no one'll see it as such.
It's like that guy on twitter who tried to troll people at school by putting stickers of images of milk and the "separate equality" flag (literally a rainbow flag) on his school computer and everyone just thought he was really gay.

>>3820569
While I don't think the sprite looks bad at all, wouldn't it make more sense to base their shirt on their UTY design, maybe off of the neck scarf they worse or something?

>>3820597
I agree with you which is why I said it’s just a striped sweater.

>>3820602
Alright sorry, friendly fire.

>>3820597
While normally you'd be right, the Deltarune fanbase is really gay. They would know exactly which flag that is and all come to the conclusion that Cole is whatever form of faggot that represents, and then we'd never hear the end of it.

>>3820603
All good.

>>3820600
The colors are gaudy and they really clash with his vest. Plus as the other anon said, that shirt is meant to be something Clover would not wear willingly. Unless Toriel is around to repress Cole's personality, he's going to wear his normal cowboy shirt.

>>3820605
Annoying people like that exist everywhere, you've just gotta work around them. If that means some people are gonna be extra irritating over something as simple as a striped shirt, so be it, just try and ignore them.

>>3820611
Working around them is this context means not leaving obvious bait dangling to incite them. The entire point of DRY is to setup Kanacoke shipping. Including will either torpedo the ship and all associated fanart it would have otherwise generated (since most DR artists are some kind of fag) or will poison it by making them all think of Kanako as trans or something similar.

>>3820612
*Kanacole shipping

>>3820612
Anon they’re going to draw Cole as gay and Kanako as trans anyways who cares.
>The entire point of DRY is to setup Kanacoke
I thought it was to make a cool DR style game with UTY characters.

>>3820614
>I thought it was to make a cool DR style game with UTY characters.
That too, but the stated goal of dry is to promote Kanaclover shipping. You can check the thread archives or ask DRYanon if you don't believe me.
>Anon they’re going to draw Cole as gay and Kanako as trans anyways who cares.
I care because I don't want 90% of the art to be that. Yes, some people will make shit gay no matter what, but a lot of people will make shit gay if you make characters look gay, a lot more than would do it if you didn't put your character in a gaudy gay shirt.

Simple idea, rather than making an undertale fangame that plays like UT, just romhack Rampage so we can pick Zartlet, Kanakoversized kanako and the festy five carrying each other like a pillar.

>>3820614
>>3820616
>>3820612
>I thought it was to make a cool DR style game with UTY characters.
if did start mainly because I wanted more monster girl romance but I also want to make a good game, and its been fun messing around with stuff

>>3820624
Giantess fetish or something made by an innocent 10 year old, call it.

>>3820616
>a lot more if you didn't put your character in a gaudy gay shirt.
Kek.

>>3820630
Surely a cowboy won’t make people think of gay sex!

>>3820627
Made by a reddit autistic middle-aged man, actually.

>>3820627
Judging by the location of Clover, I'm going to say fetish.

>>3820635
Eh, I dunno about that. The hair isn't too common of a place to focus on for macro fetish stuff, so it's not really a dead giveaway. Now, if there was something about her stepping on something/someone in this image, *that'd* be a dead giveaway.

>>3820668
I was referring to Clover being in close proximity to Kanako, not a specific part of her body.

>>3820669
Still, I'm not too sure that's the nail in the coffin here.

>>3820627
At least this one could go either way, someone posted petrification fetish art on the UTY subreddit a while back and people in the comments were unironically asking if it was fetish art or not.
Granted, that's not a particularly common one for most people to run into, but it was still way too obvious for it to even be a question.

>>3820676
>someone posted petrification fetish art on the UTY subreddit
Image? Link to the thread? I'd like to see the reactions.

>>3820679
Knock yourself out pal.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/comments/1m1lxkj/mind_the_flowers/
And to be clear, it is 100% fetish art, go check any of the artist's other sites.

>>3820680
What an odd fetish. I wonder if he got it from playing Deltarune.

>>3820683
The commissioner maybe, but the artist themself has been doing that sorta thing for a while, so I doubt it.
I guess petrification is just like a more extreme variant of bondage though, right? I mean, it technically does a lot of the same things, just in a much more specific way.
Man, I wish there was more art of Ceroba in bondage.

>>3820685
I'm not a bondage guy myself, but it seems like it would be different, since bondage is all about the struggle and being held in place. Petrification seems more TF adjacent since its physically transforming the body into stone. maybe the artist got it from JoJo

>>3820687
>Petrification seems more TF adjacent since its physically transforming the body into stone.
Hm, you might be right about that. I wonder if there's a fetish tech-tree I can consult.
>
I'm sure someone out there had their sexual awakening from JJBA, but I'm not sure it would've been that specifically.

You know, you never hear too many people talking about the state of human civilization in the UT universe. Humanity seemed to have existed in a sort of medieval-fantasy state at the time of the human-monster war, but we see that humans also clearly have modern-day tech by the time UT takes place, including cell phones and firearms based on the human stuff you run into in the underground, but what is it like on the surface? The city we see in the distance doesn't seem to indicate much, with no moving lights or anything indicating the presence of traffic, there are no planes in the sky, and even in the credits scenes we don't see a single human. What's up with all that?

Looks like a fairly popular UTY fanartist is trying to start a moral panic about sig.

>>3820696
What's the issue here exactly
Are they headcanoning Momroba so hard that even other people's drawings of Kanako and Clover have to be siblings? Or are they being weird about aging up characters?

>>3820696
>drew two adults having sex
The horror

>>3820698
Probably the latter, easier to rile people up about that one.
Honestly, I think some artists can be iffy about aging characters up properly, but I don't think anyone can look at the particular image they're talking about and not see two adults, so I don't really see the issue.

>>3820696
honestly it's really funny how angry it makes people, so what're the odds the dude is either just seething that his stuff doesnt get as much attention or he's a turbogooner like the martlet subreddit mod that tried to go on a brigade against sig when in reality he just couldnt stop beating his dick to sig's stuff

>>3820701
Eh, I doubt it's the former, since they don't seem to want that kind of attention anyway. I've been following them for a while, and some of their stuff is actually pretty alright (largely sprite edits, I only follow for their Ceroba stuff). However, they have made a few posts about being upset at some of their stuff being removed from a few subreddits for violating nsfw content rules, though I doubt that's it either. This might just be genuine puritanical logic at work here.

>>3820696
I'm torn between wanting to ask this guy what his line of logic is and not wanting to use twitter for the sake of my sanity.

>>3820705
>not wanting to use twitter for the sake of my sanity.
That's fair.
They do also occasionally post stuff on reddit, but I doubt they'd give anything resembling an amicable response to any sort of inquiry you might send their way.
In all seriousness, this user is actually a somewhat popular fanartist in the UTY community on twitter, so I am somewhat worried that this could somehow escalate into a harassment campaign against sig, even though I genuinely don't think that's the user's intent here.

>>3820706
>even though I genuinely don't think that's the user's intent here.
It reads like it is. Either that or he's trying to stir drama so he can engagement farm.

>>3820708
Eh, maybe. They seem to be directing most of their anger towards the subreddit itself as opposed to sig, but given how volatile the UTDR community can be, it's not too much of a stretch for things to go that way regardless. Hopefully none of this ends up being of any consequence.

>>3820696
>>3820698
Leftists despise HMOFA because they hate humanity. You don't deserve partners of superior species - it's inconceivable that they'd want you anyway.
Rightists despise HMOFA because they hate everything other than humanity. You're a species traitor for fortnicating with non-humans, not to mention that it insults God.
It's literally that simple.

>>3820712
>Leftists despise HMOFA because they hate humanity. You don't deserve partners of superior species - it's inconceivable that they'd want you anyway.
Counter-argument, I'm a leftist and I love hmofa and humanity. I don't feel like going into the specifics of my politics in this ridiculous context, just imagine my politics as being somewhere around the same vein as the ORCA brigade from Armored Core: For Asnwer.

>>3820713
>I'm a leftist
There are (almost) no leftists on 4chan. You're probably just a centrist like every sane person

>>3820696
Sig isn’t active on twitter and as far as I can tell he only posts here and then his stuff is reposted to e621. This isn’t going to go anywhere because he already wasn’t an active member of utdr twitter (like any sensible person).

>>3820710
still sounds like stirring shit for the sake of engagement to me

>>3820717
>You're probably just a centrist
Abso-fucking-lutley not, Jreg taught me better than to be a dirty centrist.

>>3820718
I know sig isn't active on twitter, but this user's already talking about doing something on reddit, so it's not hard for me to imagine this spilling over into other places too, like any harassment campaign worth its salt.

>>3820712
You could make a rightist and a leftist case for both. Twitter crazies just hate it because they're natural haters that hate everything good in the world.

>>3820721
Reddit surprisingly seems to like his art so I do not think they’ll go along with this.

>>3820721
Do we really care if a bunch of redditors and twitter fags get into a flame war though?

>>3820726
Probably not, but that's only if it stays contained to those two sites. I could imagine some people making their way here and to the /v/ threads trying to stir up shit.

>>3820727
>but anon, don't you know that artist drew two consenting adults having sex
Yeah, I'm sure anons are going to be really receptive to that argument.

>>3820728
I honestly wouldn't even bet on them trying to be civil about it, but whatever the case may be, I hope you're right.

>>3820696
>>3820698
I AM SEEING.
>https://x.com/the7humansouls/status/1953314968167710733
>thread of him bitching about the subreddit, not actually explaining why its wrong.
>he also complains about ADULT kanako having (gasp) LARGE BOOBS!!!
>https://x.com/the7humansouls/status/1951384522903396578/
>pinned post is his seemingly his favorite oc.
>its just not!ceroba
>https://x.com/the7humansouls/status/1953165790074814666
>bitching about the heckin homotransphobes
other notes:
>full blown furfag
>personal AU is just "i turned planets into furries" (why???)
>https://x.com/the7humansouls/status/1942022264213696625 (this says everything you need to know)
>has made dozens, if not hundreds of tweets in the last two weeks.
>age in bio: 16
WHAT IS SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN - THIS IS A GROOMED CHILD
he's most likely throwing a tantrum because sig is a NSFW artist and the child, being a child, doesnt understand that the internet isnt supposed to be for children. he doesnt understand that adults will do adult things in the adult space made for adults and that children shouldnt be there (in the adult space with adult things made for adults)

>>3820731
Eh, at least their spritework's pretty decent.
>https://x.com/the7humansouls/status/1942022264213696625 (this says everything you need to know)
Meh, R63 can be hot sometimes. Keyword being "sometimes", but again, the actual sprite's pretty good, so whatever.

>>3820696
twitter is the most disturbing thing because im at risk of seeing a fucking 16 year olds opinion at any given moment

>>3820731
Why are the ones who are actively getting molested the ones that bitch the hardest about "muh grooming"? Is it some kind of misplaced anger?

>>3820727
I don't think an underage Twitter user who throws a fit seeing art of two adult characters having sex would be able to withstand the shitposters on this site. They'd see the word nigger once and spontaneously combust
On that note I now want to see Chujin incapacitating Clover by saying Ni**EN

>>3820732
yeah r63 is fine, but wording is everything.
>>3820734
dont wanna shit up this thread more than i have to but its part of the tranny mind virus.
convince those being groomed that the REAL groomers are the people drawing consenting adults having sex.
they'll never bat an eye at how they're being groomed because "the guy thats telling me to cut off my dick is a groomer? no, he's my friend. the real groomers are over there."

>>3820735
>AU where chujin is alive instead of ceroba
>knows clover is coming
>but he has a surefire failure-proof plan.
>he saw the kid start screaming at oasis monsters for "being insensitive to human struggles" and blah blah blah he doesnt care.
>but someone that weak willed would never survive his secret weapon.
>clover enters the steamworks
>chujin turns on the intercom and taps the mic twice
>"ningen"
>clover lets out a blood curdling scream, falls on the ground, and promptly explodes.
>several failure warnings from nearby bots.
>there's nothing left but a pile of ash, like an actual grenade went off.
>it was the gunpowder he ate in the wild east

>>3820748
AU of an AU, what if Clover was just as racist, but towards monsters?

>>3820750
>"ningen"
>"duster"
>...
>"[STEAMWORKS MELTDOWN INITATED]"
>"OH SO YOU CAN DEAL IT OUT BUT CANT TAKE IT? THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I HATE YOU FREAKS!"

>>3820696
That's a funny thing to be upset about considering Sig drew non-aged Clover smothered between Martlet and Ceroba's mammoth-mammaries (based)

>>3820701
>brigade against sig when in reality he just couldnt stop beating his dick to sig's stuff
Fucking really?

Unrelated but: sig is a better rique artist than a porn one. His stuff with clover and kanako cuddling? Fucking hot. His stuff with kanako and clover fucking? It just dosen't really do anything for me. He's better at 'suggestive', when there's some demarcation from actual sex.

>>3820826
*risque

>>3820696
I would rather not be exposed to the opinions of Twitter users. They are mentally ill in a special way. The opposite end of the spectrum of terminally online people.

>>3820690
Toby doesn't like to draw humans if they aren't ambiguously gendered kids.
>>3820712
I hang out with far-right people and they love HMOFA. Politics doesn't come into it.
>>3820731
RIP
The groomers got to him.
>>3820877
Twitter users are terminally online people, anon.

>>3820885
>Twitter users are terminally online people, anon.
Yes that is what I'm saying there anon.

Some guy on twitter is asking the @the7humansouls user what exactly is wrong with what sig drew, and they're having an utter meltdown over it.

>>3820919
Start posting pics anon. I wanna see them sperg out.

>>3820802
yep, he made the subreddit and tried to ban anyone posting sig's stuff there with no reason, even going so far as to make a 'list of banned artists' that named only sig in it
people kept asking why this was since it was an obvious hateboner until the gooner finally caved and posted this

>>3820926
https://x.com/the7humansouls/status/1953467730016813243
They've posted it themself. They've also decided to come out and directly say that it's signirsol that they're angry about, so I guess they've dropped the pretense about being angry just at the subreddit.

>wake up
>go into thread
>30 posts about twitter drama
guys? fangames where?
leave that stuff for the weekend thread

>>3820961
>fangames where?
In development. If wildfire dropped we wouldn't be talking about Xitter drama for at least two weeks.

>>3820953
Once again, Twitter crazies can't actually explain shit.
>"Why is this bad?"
>"BECAUSE IT IS"
>"y"
>"IT JUST IS."

The deadliest member of the alphabet wins again.

>>3820953
>these ADULTS were children at some point you sick freak!
yawn, im already bored of this crap.

>>3820953
>these ADULTS were children at some point you sick freak!
yawn, already bored of this crap.
when will these people realize that this argument is piss weak because people NATURALLY GROW UP?
>oh no that character was portrayed as a child at some point in the series, so now that they're portrayed as an adult i cant get off to them
nigger EVERYONE WAS A CHILD AT SOME POINT. HAVE YOU RESIGNED YOURSELF TO NEVER LOVING IN REAL LIFE BECAUSE "OH THEY USED TO BE CHILDREN SO IT'D BE WEIRD"
god i hate these freaks.

>>3820993
Preaching to the choir.

Go tell them that. Come on, egg them on and make them crash out or no balls.

>>3820998
i would but my only twitter account i use for interacting with fat fetish stuff and that is a child.

>>3821006
Y'know what I can respect that. You like what you like.

>>3820978
>Wildfire
Any news on that front?

>>3821010
Jackshit, but its probably "we're working on it" jackshit as opposed to "we have nothing, our team has been jacking off in the background" jackshit.

well actual fangame news is one of the cyan projects posted some progress on their battle system (it isn't much)

>>3821006

>>3821006
That's fair, I respect that.
Any good UTY fat stuff lately?

>>3821019
buddy there hasnt really been any.

>>3821015
Better than nothing

>>3821022
Damn, what a shame.

>>3821019
someone posted a really good ceroba pic in a /v/ thread recently

>>3820712
>because they hate humanity.
See picrel, its really sad how their self-esteem is so low that they shit on everyone just because someone drew two adults having sex

Fandom's currently dry as fuck huh. No big news, only the same old dramas. Are we in another drought? (Im trying to reverse jinx it. Come on, at least ONE fangame has to give big news before September.) If not, can someone post sig's tig ol' bittied mooch please and thank you.

>>3821028
Really? I'm pretty sure in the last /v/, and I didn't see anything along those lines. Got a link for me?

>>3821031
Eh, we may or may not get new fangames before too long. Or maybe fanmods of fangames, since I hear UTY Shades of Justice is getting some new content.

>>3821028
Oh wait, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, I posted that.

>>3821034
>famous of fangames.
What're we the LISA community?

Guess I'll eat what I've been given, thanks for reminding me of shades.

>>3821036
>What're we the LISA community?
This is what happens when we don't get any new content for a while, we start taking what already exists and finding new ways to experience it, for better or worse.
The main UT community did that years ago, it just had more to work with than most fangames do, so they were able to squeeze a bit more out of it before going fully off the deep end.
As for UTY, we get Shu-posting. Truly, a hell of our own creation.

>>3821034
>Shades
I pray they don't fuck it up.
Getting a Orange/Blue fangame would be nice too, but it's all about patience in this fandom.

Just in case: wildfire devs I know you go on these threads, add shu into your game or no balls.

Me and my big fucking mouth just had to bring up Shu, god damn it.

>>3821040
>>3821041
adding anything from other creators without permission is an easy way to get dogpilled on twitter
at most they can make an expy, but even so I'd rather shu or shu adjacent like characters taint wildfire

>>3821045
*I'd rather have no

>>3821045
No need to (you) me, I'm the one who's against Shu's existence entirely.

>>3821045
I guess that's true. Don't want the one bravery project that's got half a change of making it dying because of some gay shit like shu.

Just in case: to the wildfire devs that may be reading this; DON'T add shut into wildfire.

>>3821040
>>3821045
Adding Shu or even a parody of Shu would be quick way to gain the hate of the UTY reddit
Yeah I know they are irrelevant, but still, they love Shu over there, they even refuse to recognize him as a power wank character or even a self insert when someone mentions it

>>3821055
You're kidding, right?
They actually love him?

>>3821056
NTA, but for some reason, yeah.
It reminds me of a metaphor I saw once, about a cactus in the desert whose juice hydrates you when you have nothing else to drink, but also poisons you. That's what the UTY community has sunk to at this point.

>>3821056
Yes, he is the most famous OC over there, any post from Shu's creator gets easily more updotes than the average UTY reddit post

Someone on the UTY subreddit has started making a comic about Ceroba, Chujin, and Starlo being in polygamous relationship in retaliation against another user's comic about Chujin discovering Ceroba cheating on him and reacting accordingly.
I swear, going to that subreddit is just masochism at this point.

>>3821038
>As for UTY, we get Shu-posting. Truly, a hell of our own creation.
But Shu-posting is hilarious, its like a collaborative OC made from the posts of Shu's creator, his lore keeps expanding with each new post, like all the things involving his little brother and now his older sister

>>3821063
To be fair, it's centered around the game of the child who chose to sacrifice. Of course they like self-directed pain.

>>3821066
Yeah, but like, man.
The second comic I mentioned is actually a decently well-written drama (aside from the fact that Ceroba would never do that), but the comic made in retaliation is just awful. Inconceivable levels of Chujin-cucking, and I don't even care for Chujin that much.

>>3821039
>Getting a Orange/Blue fangame would be nice too, but it's all about patience in this fandom.
The concept of the orange soul is by far the most popular, when everyone started anouncing fangames after the release of UTY, there were like 50+ different orange soul fangames, much more than any of the other souls, currently the orange fangames are the only ones with battle demos (Wildfire, Orange and Naranja)
There is also one blue fangame which is going to release a demo in two weeks

>>3821071
Could you link it? You got me curious, and I'm yearning for more UTY since I caught up to Return to Form.

>>3821078
Which one?

>>3821079
...The cucking one. I'd say both, but a polyamorous relationship stretch my suspension of disbelief too thin.

>>3821052
>>3821045
>>3821055
I agree that adding Shu or an obvious parody of Shu into a fangame is a bad idea, (at least unless its an anonymously developed shitpost) but the idea of monster Mr Satan is fair game. That concept is way older than Shu or even Undertale itself and has basically nothing to do with that reddit guy's character. You could just take the 4chan parody character, changes all the names and designs, and it'd be completely unrecognizable to anyone who isn't a perpetual thread lurker.

>>3821084
>The cucking one
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
Jokes aside, here you go:https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/comments/1mg612p/haishin_part_1/
>a polyamorous relationship stretch my suspension of disbelief too thin.
I agree, especially with the way that one's written. I joked about cucking, but the way Chujin just seems to do it purely to make Ceroba happy really does make it feel like that, as if he's just making a concession for her sake rather than actually wanting to be in a relationship like that. And god don't even get me started on how *Ceroba* is written, it's just a trainwreck all around.

>>3821084
yeah everybody knows ceroba is supposed to end up with a nondescript human male

Are there any guides on replacing lines and sprites with UndertaleModTool? Want to make a small mod for Undertale.

>>3821095
Or me.

>>3821128
Someday, we'll all have our own 'robas.

>>3821129
Thanks for the confidence. We will all have our own alchaholic abusive wife one day, one day.

>>3821131
He said Roba, not Toriel.

>>3821134
Both is good.

>>3821136
Leave out Toriel and we've got ourselves a deal.

>>3821137
Based anyways.

>>3821140
Ceroba would actually be a decent partner, especially compared to Toriel, but I already posted the 'roba defense paragraph earlier ITT, and I don't care enough to get into all that nonsense again.

Oh man, I wonder what the weekend UTY thread would have to say about those fuckin' comics.

>>3821146
I'm not participating in yet another character study of Ceroba.

>>3819951
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Though I don't dislike Ralsei, I generally agree with your points and that he'd be more likeable with those flaws addressed, and that he was way cooler in chapter 1. I can't promise exactly what you want, but I will definitely keep what you've said in mind in how I portray Ralsei.

>with a darker story lurking just under the surface
I can't help but think the darker undertones from the earlier chapters were building up to something grander, and the direction from chapter 4 onwards were the payoff to said setup. It's similar like how Undertale had tints of a messed up story with Flowey and the Waterfall murals, which led to the big reveals of the Dreemurr's dead children in the endgame.
I'd like to ask, what did you think about how Undertale handled its heavier elements (including genocide, which I personally don't consider well written), and what are some other stories with a tone that appeals to your tastes? You also mention "villain of the week" shows in your other reply, what are some that you think did that format well?
I understand if you think that the specific ways Deltarune paid off on its buildup wasn't very good, but I'm just thinking all that foreshadowing has to lead to something. I'd like to hear some examples of how you believe to do this correctly.

>>3820226
This is true, but a lot of people believed each chapter would get progressively more intense until it culminated in the Roaring, and that we'd finally get answers for what the deal was with Gaster, the Knight, the schizobosses, the eggs, etc.
That's the approach I'm leaning towards with my fan project, at least.

>>3821153
Oh I'm not talking about a character study, I'm talking about a dogpile.

>>3821160
Ceroba doing a dog pile on me sounds like a good disscution topic.

>>3821087
>>3821146
That comic you linked is overdramatic slop as well. It’s literally barely disguised NTR fetish by a Staroba shipper. I love Starlo, but I don’t know why Redditors go to deny to great lengths on how Chujin was akshually the cuck and is literally Hitler to Ceroba

>>3821179
sorry I meant I don’t know why Redditors deny Starlo was the cuck but Chujin akshually is

>>3821179
>Chujin was akshually the cuck
What kind of logic is this? He's the one that actually got a kid out of Roba.

>>3821182
Cause Chujin is a fox nerd despite being a boss monster and having a biological daughter therefore he is feminine and weak

>>3821182
People like starlo,
People like staroba,
People do not like that staroba is not cannon.
Simple as.

>>3821179
>That comic you linked is overdramatic slop as well
Oh yeah, 100%, but Chujin feels a bit more reasonably written here than in most of anything else that comes out of that subreddit, especially the other comic I talked about.
If this comic is barely disguised NTR, I'd describe the other comic as NTR in denial. It somehow manages to feel so much worse.

>>3821183
Shouldn't he be the self-insert for nerds?

>>3821186
Chujin is the only well written character so far in that comic I agree, I’m just baffled at how much Redditors hate the guy to make these types of things. He’s boring to me, and I wouldn’t mind this dumb cuck shit if they just left my man Starlo out of it. Give him fish thussy I don’t know

>>3821187
Eh, maybe.
While I could certainly see some people projecting onto him a bit like Hideo Kojima does with Otacon, I think Chujin not actually being much of a present/active character in the story kinda weakens that a bit. The potential is there, but him being dead makes the more obvious play to make an OC or project onto another character, at least when it comes to anything involving Ceroba.

>>3821192
>I’m just baffled at how much Redditors hate the guy to make these types of things.
If only you knew how bad things really are. Here's that other comic that was made in retaliation to Haishin, read at your own discretion: https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/comments/1mj9nhb/starobajin_au_part_1/

Honestly, even as someone who was arguing in favor of Ceroba moving on, that's only *after* Chujin's gone. This kinda thing just feels weird and meanspirited, Chujin just can't catch a break.

>>3821192
What's there to hate anyway?
Guy was earnest, tried to make everyone taste the sunrays, didn't get discouraged by successive failures, spend his last tape wishing for his daughter's safety, mentored Martlet, etc .

>>3821206
He fucked everyone's waifu, that's what they hate.

>>3821208
Call me naive, but I have trouble believing people to be so...spiteful for such a minor detail.

>>3821209
>call me naive.
Ok, you're naive.

>>3821192
it's just honestly kinda fucked up how the dude's already dead by the start of the game and yet goddamn redditors just have to twist it into some kind of NTR scenario
it'd be one thing if it was some kind of 'starlo and ceroba were together from the start' AU, but nope gotta make somebody a cuck i guess

>>3821209
No, he's right. Ceroba is easily the most desired character to come out of UTY, even with all the hate she gets. Chujin, were he alive, would be an obstacle to any potential pairings people might make with Ceroba, especially selfships.
So, the easiest way for people to make the pairings they want involving Ceroba is to either have them exist after Chujin's already bit the dust, or take Chujin out of the picture some other way.
I once saw a comic on the subreddit where Ceroba and Starlo ended up together first instead of Ceroba and Chujin, *and* Chujin's still alive, specifically so Starlo could hire Chujin to build stuff for him and Ceroba's new house.
For the purposes of shipping, Chujin is merely an obstacle in most cases.

>>3820731
Why so worked up over a 15 year old saying this

>>3821223
Because we like being angry?

I saw someone make an image of Chujin at his computer while Kanako gets loudly fucked in the background, but I'm somewhat surprised I haven't seen an image of Chujin's ghost watching the entire underground and UTY community line up to fuck his wife 24/7, even as a low effort shitpost.
You could even have him stuck inside his computer like in that one FUN event in UTY, the setup is all there.

>>3821214
>even with all the hate she gets
I was under the impression this only happens in these threads, and even then it's rather split down the middle. Elsewhere, everyone waifus her and thinks she did nothing wrong.

>>3821226
Eh, it's a bit less common outside these threads, but it's definitely still present in other places.

>>3821225
Because people generally don’t like cuck shit, Chujin is a nice guy, and the people that make the most NSFW art in the fandom are Cerojin or Kanaclover supporters. Furries don’t care about Staroba

>>3821228
> the people that make the most NSFW art in the fandom are Cerojin or Kanaclover supporters.
You sure about that first one?
On esix alone, Ceroba has 485 images results, and Chujin only has 80. Now I'm no mathematician, but I'm not too sure how many of those images feature the both of them at the same time together.
Specifically cuck shit aside, it looks like people are more than happy to draw Ceroba with whoever they please, as opposed to just Chujin.

>>3821233
Oh I didn’t mean the number of individual pics, I know Ceroba has the most. But I’m pretty sure Chujin has more NSFW art with Ceroba than Starlo, or at least “higher quality” stuff. The signirsol art of them is way better than any of the Staroba stuff for example

>>3821239
Maybe with other UTY character's specifically, but there's a decent bit of selfship art with Ceroba that's pretty decent, not to mention art of Ceroba with generic human anons.
Plus, that is still only talking about NSFW works, outside of that, there's way more Staroba art than Cerojin art, and it's not even close. I don't even like Staroba, but Chujin's just not winning this one.

>/v/ thread had a Yellow image and was autosaged almost immediately
guess we have to camp out in /vrpg/ then

>>3821242
I agree with you that Staroba is generally more popular, but I don’t think people (outside of Reddit) hate him enough to let him get cucked literally

>>3821243
Can you post it here?

>>3821243
It's fuckin' thursday, it's way too early for a new UTY thread.

>>3821246
>>>/v/717533826
Most of the replies weren't even UTY-related
simply having an image was enough to get the entire thread autosaged

>>3821247
this thread is too damn active for /vrpg/. like a third of the posts were made only today, when you used to be lucky to find one post a day.
lately it seems like everyone's been wanting to discuss UT games, and anons have been treating this thread like the ones on /v/.
it seems to go against the original purpose of these threads, which was for devs to post updates on their fangames and discuss them. but most of those devs are gone now so i guess this point is irrelevant

>>3821252
they're still here. its just not a "every day" kind of thing.

>>3821252
The devs come around every once in a while, like comets. If there's nothing about any of their games to update anyone on, they don't post. If there is, they will. They'll be back, it'll just take a bit. In the meantime, this place will act as temporary measure until the weekend. Things'll likely pick up around then.

>>3821252
>but most of those devs are gone now so i guess this point is irrelevant
We're still here, we just don't have any news to post. I'm busy fucking around with programming and I'm sure the other devs are doing the same.

>>3821252
What made you so sour? I'm not visiting much, but this place is a lot slower than the /v/ equivalent (a tad quicker than in /tg/) and the conversation are on-topic. Even the AU concepts or character studies or whatever are derived from the Undertale/Deltarune fangames.

>>3821157
>I can't help but think the darker undertones from the earlier chapters were building up to something grander, and the direction from chapter 4 onwards were the payoff to said setup
My issue is that I wanted the something grander to be a massive "everything goes to shit" moment in the final act, not the story that I fell in love with being a bait and switch for a normal jrpg plot. I wanted the game to have a slow build up until around the end of chapter 5 or start of 6, where everything would go to shit then. And before that it would be the dark world fun times being increasingly invaded by menacing lore stuff (like Spamton).
>what did you think about how Undertale handled its heavier elements
I liked the way it handled them because it either saved them for the end, or had them in an optional route that's really hard to get accidentally.
>what are some other stories with a tone that appeals to your tastes?
If you've ever seen The Big O or FMA 2003, something like that. They had a similar thing going on where there was a villain of the week structure, with mostly self contained plots, but there were constant hints of something greater, and only towards the end did it make the "something greater" the main focus of the story.

>>3821252
a fast thread isn't gonna make /vrpg/ spontaneously combust, you know

>>3821263
Wouldn't say I'm sour, just pointing out the obvious
Well it is a problem that the jannies are fucking relentless on /v/, and we can't discuss video games on the video game board
This I think is the cause of all the new traffic on this thread. I didn't see much interest in discussing UTY on /vrpg/ until recently, and most earlier threads went on for a month at least.
Could also be the release of DR's new chapters, but there's no telling when the hype for that dies down or when jannies will ever stop purging threads

>>3821264
Oh, I see what you're getting at now. I think we're on the same page on a lot of things. That slow burn structure is what I initially expected out of Deltarune, too.
>FMA 2003
Like that show a lot. Though I've always thought the entire second half is the "everything goes to shit" moment, and that it's considerably more serious and morose than the manga. I'd argue Deltarune chapters 1 and 2 had a tone more similar to the manga, but then again so did the first half of 2003.
>The Big O
Haven't seen it, but seems interesting. Especially considering the head writer is the guy who did Lain

>>3821252
For what it's worth, I sort of count as a dev, but I haven't made enough progress to showcase. Outside of a single webm, everything I've ever posted here has just been my ideas.

>>3821269
Trust that eventually the traffic will [[Dial tone]] back to the previous level. You'll probably regret having a non-shitpost general where to talk about Deltarune mechanics and the various fangames once the Wait 2.0 start for real.

>>3821252
I don't usually post outside of regular /v/, is it really that slow?

>>3821312
Some threads here go on for months.

>>3821314
Like at that point you're actually friends with the anons there, God damn.

>>3821315
Well, that's one way of looking at it.

>>3820793
I actually found that image to be quite hilarious lol.
Heck I remember there was an image where someone drew Clover's soul getting absorbed by Zenith Martlet, alongside other doodles of Zartlet and people freaking loved the image, and saw nothing wrong it.
People can just be really weird sometimes when it comes to this stuff. Just starting drama for no reason.

>>3821282
>Haven't seen it
If you like the meta parts of Deltarune, You'd like it. It covers some similar subjects.

>>3821320
Post it if you have it.

>>3821339
Here's the image in question in all it's glory.
From what I've seen people really like how this artist draws Zenith Martlet.

https://litter.catbox.moe/d6gio2m5rdm3zwo7.jpg

>>3821266
>>3821252
the last few threads have lasted at least 2 weeks on average, before they used to last 2 months
I guess people are using it to discuss more UTY related stuff instead of waiting for the weekend threads, but it is a change
at least even if this thread were to hit bump limit today, it is guaranteed to survive at least one more week
pic unrelated, just wanted to share it

>>3821200
is this cucked?

>>3821400
at least they have his permission...

>>3821400
Do you even have to ask?

>>3821402
the definition of cuckoldry

>>3821400
>>3821402
In all seriousness, this doesn't feel like something Chujin actually wants, this just feels like him making a concession for the sake of not losing Ceroba.
He literally says "As long as Ceroba is happy, I don't really mind", like his own feelings aren't even a factor here.
And god, the panel where Ceroba says "I can have everything I want and then some", it just feels really weird to have everything revolve around her like that. I'd be fine with polyamory if it was a truly equal relationship, with everyone in love with each other, but this relationship is completely centered around her specifically, and that just doesn't seem right.

>>3821407
>it just feels really weird to have everything revolve around her like
If we're being cheeky, it match pretty well with the latter half of the game.

>>3821411
This feels worse. Even as someone who loves Ceroba, this just feels bad. I can excuse manipulating someone so you can try and steal their soul to finish an esoteric science project, but I draw the line at unhealthy polyamory.

>>3821400
>>3821402
man, this is just vile, I'm even a fan of Chujin but no character deserve this level of humiliation

>>3821400
>>3821402
>the little blush on chujin
the author self inserts as chujin here. Please desist, I do not want to be exposed to this any further

>>3821400
So that's what the subreddit is up to, huh?

>>3821400
>>3821402
someone make a "genoslide" edit of this pic and add a conga line of all the other characters people ship with Ceroba behind Starlo

>>3821417
If you're just now joining us, this comic was made as a retaliation against a comic some other user made called "Haishin", in which Chujin catches Ceroba and Starlo fucking and responds accordingly...
So far at least, a new part of that one just came out.

>>3821418
Bonus points if you include the typical green skinned anon somewhere in that line.

>>3821414
I'm not even a fan of Chujin*

>>3821346
Even if the whole soul absorption to make clover less violent is a joke here, I've thought of scenarios of a monster's act of kindness lowering LV Those "acts of kindness" are mostly hugs because I'd be really happy to get a body full of Martlet or Ceroba.
I'm not invested enough in the UTDR-verse to come up with a fan-game but if I did, I would center it around this concept of someone with high LV who gradually loses LV the more positive experiences they have. The hypothetical genocide route would have an angle of betrayal as you would need to lower your LV first then start killing after the monsters trust the player.

>>3821419
Yes. It was a sad update. The next one promise to be funnier.

>>3821423
>the genocide route if you take it starts late in the game and you begin backtracking through all of the monsters that no longer are hiding, have their guards up or otherwise expect bad out of you

Someone on /v/ made a Deltarune themed vidya OC thread. Might be fun for the other fangame devs to hang around in there and post some of their characters. I've already posted couple of mine.

>>3821416
The author here self inserts as Chujin and the other author of that cheating comic self inserts as Starlo. It’s so obvious. I would respect all of them more if they just made OCs at this point

>>3821425
What?
Wait a sec, you aren't the guy who makes that, are you?
And what do you mean by "funnier"?

>>3821418
add a second Chujin in the conga line

>>3821428
>the other author of that cheating comic self inserts as Starlo.
I'm not so sure about that, take a look: https://www.reddit.com/r/UndertaleYellow/comments/1mkipk4/haishin_part_4/
I'm curious to see where this goes, I kinda want no one in this story to be happy now. Well, I guess except for Chujin and Kanako, they didn't do anything wrong.

Might be a dumb question. How do you know if you can program for a fangame?
Like, I know how to code. Got my CS degree and all. But knowing how to code doesn't suddenly make me able to make it for Deltarune. Are there tools or applications you guys used before getting started?

>>3821432
Dude, if you have any professional coding skill at all, that's more than Toby had when making Undertale.

>>3821425
You will never be Starlo

>>3821433
NTA, but having professional coding skill doesn't immediately qualify you to make a game, you can't just open up C++ or some shit and type in "game_exist=true" and call it a day.

>>3821418
>>3821430
Or even better, add another Ceroba, I've seen people shipping Ceroba with herself before

>>3821436
He was asking if he can. I'm saying if even Toby can do it, then he certainly can. I never said it would be easy though.

>>3821437
put at least one Shu

>>3821431
I don't know it still reads like a humiliation fetish. I mean look at one part of this story lol, why does he look like that? The author seems to make NSFW sometimes of Ceroba and Starlo while being more of a Ceroba fan

>>3821419
welp, since there's no /v/ thread for a while. gonna post the first three parts of "Haishin" here
(1/6)

(2/6)

>>3821441
>since there's no /v/ thread for a while.
Oh, we're totally gonna have to repost all this when the weekend /v/ thread goes up, that sounds like a party.

(3/6)

(4/6)

>>3821441
>>3821442
>>3821444
dumb

(5/6)

(6/6)

>>3821449
I hope this story doesn't have a resolution. I hope no one walks away from this feeling at all happy, I hope this just completely destroys the lives they had before and leaves them all empty. I want this story to hurt. I will be so genuinely disappointed if this gets resolved in any way, like that "Trial by Fury" comic some other user made on that subreddit. I know it's an Undertale (derived) story, so obviously it's gonna find some kind of lovey dovey ending where all's well that ends well, but i hope to god that just doesn't happen here.

>>3821451
Chujin did nothing wrong

>>3821452
Right, 'cept for Chujin. And Kanako. I mean, they'll probably still feel pretty bad about all this for basically the rest of their lives, but that's just collateral at this point.

>>3821432
>>3821436
Like the other anon said, you already habe more experience than Toby did when he first started, if you want to make a game there are already game engines you can use, I'd recomend Godot or Unity since those are free and have lots of documentation, or if you are crazy enough you can make your own game engine but I wouldn't recomend that

Last year when I first started to learn how to use Godot all I had in coding experience was a 6 month Java course, now I'm still learning but I already have a combat system for my fangame and all of the overworld systems done too, nothing is stoping you from opening ome of those game engines and starting now

>>3821449
I feel less as a human being having read this. my day was made a little more than slightly worse having experienced this.

>>3821457
Good, it's working.

>>3821441
I find Ceroba pretty harsh on Starlo there. She was the one who brought the wine to the picnic (despite supposedly being reserved for couple time) then brought Starlo home to fetch more.
He shares the fault, but just cutting him out like it's all his...Well, it's pretty scummy. He WAS trying to be a concerned friend before this shit.

>>3821461
I know right?
I'm honestly excited for the next part, I'd love to see this turn into a massive cascade of life-ruining consequences for her. I mean, there's no way Chujin can ever trust her again after something like this, so I highly doubt he'll take her back in any context here.
Also, holy shit if this isn't the most character-assassinating bullshit since KFFT, but man if it isn't entertaining.

You know, I don't think I ever got a read on Cole's personality in DR:Y. Maybe its because not all of it is finished or set in stone, but I can't help but wonder how Cole met and got close to Kanako. What does Cole mean to the world he lives in?

>>3821462
>I highly doubt he'll take her back in any context here
Now, now. We haven't even gotten to the inevitable part where Kanako's purity/obliviousness calm down her father.

>>3821465
Oh god, don't even joke lad.
I love Ceroba to death, but by god do I want nothing more than for Chujin to just completely explode on her. I want nothing less than for the next comic to physically hurt to read from the sheer intensity of what he has to say to her.
Bonus points if Kanako finds out about Ceroba and Starlo did and absolutely refuses to forgive Ceroba betraying Chujin, just have everything turn against her.

>>3821462
Starlo should also get massive consequences. He's also OOC as hell here

I think a great consequence would be Chujin "befriending" him. Consent questionable

>>3821470
"whoever fucks my wife shall become my concubine"
I hate this a lot but that still makes me laugh

>>3821470
Eh, I think it's better if this all stays relatively grounded.
People on the subreddit (aside from the person making the retaliatory polyamory comic) actually seem to be engaging with it rather well, with a serious discussion over what could happen to Kanako happening in the comments of the latest post.
Honestly, this could be the shot in the arm the subreddit needed, with this inspiring more people to make more relatively serious and interesting stories like this.
Or they'll spiral into completely ridiculous shit that'll make KFFT look tame, who knows.

>>3821451
The artist seems to have a thing for misery porn and making their characters mentally suffer
Maybe it's natural for a fanbase to reflect its game. In the case of UTY the devs were already putting their characters through mental torture.

>>3821476
this feels too autistic

>>3821476
Oh hell yeah, nice.
I don't actually dislike pretty much any character from UTY, but given the constant hugboxing that tends to go on in that subreddit, seeing a character do something wrong and actually face some kind of consequence for it is such a breath of fresh air.
That is, if this comic actually does follow through with all this buildup and doesn't pull it's punches.

/dbz/ cuckoldry spics get out
>>3821463
>but I can't help but wonder how Cole met and got close to Kanako
Probably via Martlet talking with Ceroba regarding parenting and the two meeting as a result. DRY1anon said that there was something that happened prior to the story that resulted in Kanako trusting Cole enough to the point she follows him in the dark world without a second thought. Whatever that was, it drew them together and that closeness grew in the time before DRY1.
Its also probably the reason that Chujin trusts Cole enough to allow him inside their home.Him being around Kanako while they're children is one thing, him being around Kanako while they're teenagers(where his "nature as a human" might manifest) is something else, and I doubt he would allow such a thing unless Cole had proven himself in such a way.

What do you guys figure Ceroba sounds like?
I don't know why, but I can't get the idea out of my head that she would sound like Agent Carolina from Red vs Blue.

>>3821484
or really, proven himself in some way.

>>3821490
I generally assume their little dialogue sounds are an indication of the pitch of the characters voice so cerobas voice would be on the deeper range for women.

>>3821498
Hot.

>>3821442
>he used the Toriel drunk pose
>>3821444
>refusing payment for fixing machines while his wife has to support the family
Why was Chujin given the idiot ball? Even Asgore actually sells flowers sometimes. I know we're supposed to feel sorry for Chujin but he doesn't even fit the "struggling family man" archetype well. That archetype is usually looking for any sort of work, and conflicts in such stories often arise from a criminal opportunity that is the easy way out. Chujin already has work and was offered money, he would just rather be poor out of misbegotten generosity.

>>3821439
Shu used his shadow clone jutsu (he has something like that in one of the comics) to increase his odds of getting to her first but they all entered the doorframe at the same time and now it's blocked off for everyone, other monsters now trying to go through the windows

>>3821509
I was thinking Shu (piss form), normal Shu, and some edgy genoslide Shu all in the line

>>3821515
Please god no, the less Shu the better.
Actually, it would be kinda funny for there to be a comic where Chujin's initially fine with having an open relationship, but then instantly changes his mind upon seeing Shu.

>>3821432
If you have a CS degree, I genuinely recommend checking out a library like PyGame or Raylib and seeing if you can slap something together. I personally think their APIs are a lot less to take in than an engine like Unity or Godot, although those handle way more of the busywork for you.

>>3821517
Roba does too. Shu saves their marriage completely accidentally by making them realize open relationships suck

>>3821519
I never thought a Shu related post would ever make me smile. But you've done it. This is a good one.

>>3821440
Wtf is this lmao

>>3821437
>add another Ceroba, I've seen people shipping Ceroba with herself before
Cyan ceroba, the ceroba selfcest is mostly between integrity-blue-colored roba and patience-cyan-colored roba

>>3821444
>overly enthusiast and cheery-happy chujin
Aside from the nsfw tags in the artist's og posts making it obvious that this is just a cuckshit comic, this is just another proof that this shit is self-insert cuckery

>>3821524
>the nsfw tags in the artist's og posts making it obvious that this is just a cuckshit comic
NSFW tags doesn't mean it's porn, it just means it's explicit, which it is.

>>3821527
Well, fetish content is considered nsfw, and there isnt anything overly sexual in any of the posts aside from the implied "starlo and the roba had sex" moment in >>3821448, so the logical conclusion is that the comic is cuck fetish shit and thats why its marked nsfw

>>3821528
>Barely disguised petrification fetish
>Barely disguised cuck fetish
>Barely disguised kidnapping fetishes
Lol

>>3821535
Wait, what's that last one? When'd that come up?

>>3821521
Starlo definitely not having an orgasm by being beaten by the Jin

>>3821528
No, it's marked NSFW because it's a comic about cheating and the aftermath of cheating, which is an NSFW topic and therefore in need of such a tag.
I know this concept may seem alien to you, but it is in fact possible for someone to write about a topic like this without getting off to it. Far fetched, I know, but it does happen.

>>3821536
God if I can recall I swear I saw someone post a comic of Ceroba kidnapping kid Noelle on that place

>>3821536
Its from a story where ceroba forced clover to stay in her house, took his gun away, and she starved and abused him until clover walked into the saloon or whatever that place was called and shot her multiple times in the head

Why do the shitty uty comics always have absolutely wonderful artstyles?

>>3821539
How can something like >>3821440 not be fetish shit? The author can explore what they want, but they like the Starlo Ceroba ship a lot according to their post history

>>3821541
That's KFFT you're talking about, and I wouldn't really call it a kidnapping story. Abuse, neglect, etc, yeah, but not technically kidnapping.

>>3821541
This also sounds familiar

>>3821545
Forcing someone to stay against their will is considered kidnapping

>>3821543
>How can something like >>3821440 not be fetish shit?
I dunno, is that scene where Cooler tries to crush Goku with wires a fetish scene? I mean, I'm sure someone's out there getting off to it, but that doesn't make that the intent of the original creator.
Like, if the comic had Chujin grab Starlo with multiple vines and put him into a BDSM position, that'd be a done deal, but it's just crushing him. Again, yeah, I know some people do get off to that, but I really don't think that's what's going on here.

>>3821547
Alright fine, but that's mostly secondary to all the other shit that happens in that one, so whatever.

>>3821522
>roba getting the multicolor sans selfcest treatment
kek

>>3821541
That one wasn't fetish content, just edgelord misery porn.

>>3821548
Why are they all blushing?

>>3821561
Only Ceroba and Starlo are blushing, and that's because the earlier pages of the comic establish that they're both currently wasted, and blush is a common way of depicting that in a visual medium.
Unless you want them to have swirly eyes or little bubbles floating around their heads or something, blush is the simplest way of conveying that.

>>3821562
You can make the blush go away when you're trying to depict them as scared. Fair enough, maybe its not meant to be taken sexually, but it really looks that way.

>>3821563
I mean, the blush is still present even when Ceroba is walking away from Chujin all sad at the end, so it wouldn't really make sense for the blush to be a sexual thing here.

>>3821519
>Shu is Yellow's Rouxls Kaard

>>3821565
He basically already is.

Calling it now: the more time UTY goes without any content, the more time that subreddit goes crazy and starts to out edge each other with more fetish comics. Like “exploring” rape or some shit

>>3821463
>Maybe its because not all of it is finished or set in stone
Yeah, most likely. One of the more common criticisms I've seen towards DRY is that the main duo aren't well characterised at this point.
>What does Cole mean to the world he lives in?
I got the impression the townsfolk generally view him as a sweet, if somewhat dorky, boy. This is more or less how he was in UTY. He seems to be more closely integrated into his local community than, say, Kris, due to being more sociable and outwardly nice.

>>3821569
that happens more often than you think, I bet you never saw the pikmin or TF2 communities during years long droughts
it is happening right now with hollow knight and silksong, and I'm sure you saw what the deltarune WAIT did to people

>>3821569
I mean, yeah. UTY's almost certainly never going to get any new official content, outside of minor patches anyway, so if people really want to keep any sort of community surrounding the game alive, they'll have to get creative.
Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, that's up to you.

I feel like the kfft clover-abuse comic was supposed to be longer.
Like, one day i was thinking
>"man, that comic is short asf, like, couldnt there have been a plotline where clover kills abusive-ceroba in the og timeline or clover comes out and reveals that ceroba is a POS to starlo instead of just having flowey reset it away with clover killing ceroba and leading back to the Neutral run ending stuff? That wouldve been more interesing, What was even the point of showing us prequel posts like how ceroba adopted clover or what was kanako thinking if it was gonna be undone anyways? Wait..."
And thats when it hit me, the comic maker chose to finish the plot early! And thus, I dont know why the author did it, but i think i can come up with a reason:
Maybe the author felt discouraged from the comments treating it as mindless edgefest
Maybe the author planned to make his version of ceroba sympathetic and got butthurt at the people calling her an abusive pos so he rushed out the story, made an extra post where ceroba is suddenly acting like she regretted it all and about to khs before the reload
Or maybe the author thought that the comic's haters were butthurt momlet fans so he derailed his entire plot to make flowey reset, then have martlet be like "why did you kill her!? She was innocent!" after clover kills ceroba in the saloon to project his thoughts onto martlet before killing her off right after she offered to adopt clover as a final "fuck you momlet fans!!!"

Either way, its noticeable that the story was heavily biased in favour of ceroba, as the comic refuses to portray clover killing ceroba as a good deserved thing:
>the post where ceroba ends herself, which is obviously trying to tell you "look guys! She is nuanced!!1 she only abused and starved clover to get him to suicide because she wanted to get his soul for da chujin experiment! She really, reallt regrets it!!"
>clover saying that killing her didnt feel good even through anybody would say otherwise

>>3821604
And
>Martlet chastising clover for killing ceroba
Its clear that the comic wanted to portray ceroba in a much more nuanced way but something mustve heavily ticked the author off in order for him to gut the comic's plotline so abruptly

Unhinged rant warning:
I think the devs genuinely don't know why fans like UTY. I think they expected to dump their work online for people to play through and move on, not to develop this rabid cult following.
Problem is that they're still acting like the fanbase isn't that big, so now it feels as if the fans are being given the silent treatment. The only time I've seen a dev post on the subreddit was to shill their new game.
So to me UTY was like contractual work for the devs, and they didn't need to nor want to associate with it afterwards. It's kind of like relatives who only visit for Christmas. They're doing a bare minimum by showing up, but anything meaningful simply isn't there.
Oh, and it doesn't help that they don't think the game needs to be improved. They're dismissive of any criticism simply because they stopped caring to keep going past the finish line (having a complete ending regardless of how it turned out).
Basically the devs made the game, but they're not fans of it.

>>3821610
to be fair its the UT/DR fandom we are talking about.
unless you're just as insane as the rest of em (meaning you're incapable of making a fangame like this) then you wont really want to be associated with them.

>>3821610
Separate from the fandom, it could just be that when you work on something for seven years you get tired of it. The game is complete, as flawed as parts of it are, and that's a huge accomplishment in itself. They don't have anything more to prove imo

>>3821619
Problem with saying that about UTY in particular is that fans are still HUNGRY for some follow-up or closure. Even normies on Reddit/Twitter subconsciously know Kanako deserved better. It's why she has some of the most fanart despite the devs barely acknowledging her.
Although you could say the same of the others. Nobody truly got a happy ending, and the ones we got were too open ended to be satisfying.

>>3821604
>kfft
Every time I read this acronym my brain registers it as KKHTA

>>3821346
Not going to lie, this actually looks really good.

Retarded AU idea
>Asgore wins custody battle for Kris (probably with Carol's help)
>Roba is a widow who moves to Hometown
>somehow they both manage to overcome their oneitis and marry each other
>Kris and Kanako are now stepsiblings of same age
Now, in addition to his existing problems, Kris has to deal with
>being jealous on behalf of Toriel
>Toriel being jealous all on her own (and a complete mess)
>Roba trying hard to connect with him
>Kanako trying to cheer him up with pranks (which is especially painful for him since he swore off pranks himself)
>trying to keep Kanako and Cole in the dark about Dark Worlds
>trying to keep Cole and Susie from killing each other

>>3821610
If a game that I worked on for 7+ years released and died down in hype and the Reddit was just left with a bunch of autistic kids making autistic fetish comics I would also abandon anything to do with the game

>>3821713
Are Kanako and Cole going on their own completely unrelated dark world adventures? Is Kanako trying to keep dark worlds a secret from at the same time that he's trying to hide them from her?

>>3821572
>He seems to be more closely integrated into his local community than, say, Kris, due to being more sociable and outwardly nice.
Having Martlet as a mother would probably do that

>>3821714
they could at least fix the ending before riding off into the sunset

>>3821463
>but I can't help but wonder how Cole met and got close to Kanako
Following on some ideas in this thread, what if some years ago he protected her from a certain mean purple girl (who had since moved away)? Naturally, Kanako teased him mercilessly over that, but she never admitted that her heart skipped a beat when he stood up for her.

>>3821728
>(god damnit kris its that freak human and your stepsister)
>(god damnit cole its that freak bully and my stepbrother)

>>3821786
>Cole get on the bus, finally ready to leave
>SIKE IT'S ROARING TIME

>Kanako pranks Noelle
>Noelle immediately falls in love with her

>>3821788
a single "sorry im straight and already like cole that way" would immediately dust noelle.

>>3821789
Noelle doesn't even get to confess her feelings. Right as she's about to, Cole shows up, Kanako hugs him, kisses him, and then they walk away together holding hands.

>>3821787
The Outlaw and the Knight run into each other

>>3821622
I mean, that's kinda the point of UTY, with it being a prequel and all. It's meant to take place before the story where everyone gets a happy ending, so there's no way UTY itself can end with anything other than a status quo. For each of the main cast members, their stories end with their lives just blending into the rest of the underground. As for Kanako, the player is meant to assume that she'll become an amalgamate and eventually be returned to Ceroba or the family of whoever she's merged with after the true pacifist ending of UT.
Maybe it's a little unsatisfying, but that was pretty much always going to be the case with a story like this. There was never any other way out that didn't involve Clover dying and everyone else's lives returning to how they were before, until the next human came along.

>>3821796
They could have at least included a non canon good ending, anon. Off screening all the character resolutions (yes its off screening, because they don't appear in Undertale) is just bad writing.

>>3821799
>They could have at least included a non canon good ending, anon
Genocide route exists.

>>3821800
ow, the edge

>>3821793
>Knight and Outlaw

>>3821801
What do you have against it?

>>3821803
I was calling you an edgelord for saying its the good ending

>>3821728
Depends on whether Ralsei lied about being able to feel new fountains being opened. Then again, they could be adventuring in the same worlds without running into each other.

>>3821799
>They could have at least included a non canon good ending, anon. Off screening all the character resolutions (yes its off screening, because they don't appear in Undertale) is just bad writing.
None of the UT games have endings. The stories don't end. There's never a point where the story has a definitive stopping point, only a point where we stop following the character's lives. That's what UTY does too.
Tell me, what exactly would a "good ending" look like? Clover accepts their friend's offer to live with them in secrecy and not offer up their soul? What happens when the next human falls then? If Clover gets to live, that means there are still only 5 human souls to use for breaking the barrier, meaning at least 2 other humans are gonna have to die for this now because of Clover's absence. That's not an ending, that's kicking the can down the road.
As for everyone else, they don't simply stop existing once the camera stops following them, that's just where we stop being able to see them. As I said before, their lives simply fade into the greater noise of the underground. We see a little bit of what they get up to after our time with them has ended, but it's not like their lives have specific conclusions or anything, and that's exactly how the original UT handled things. You get to see the main cast hanging out on the surface, but you never really get to see any specifics, the trajectories of their lives.
That's just how it is, we can only follow them for so long.
And I know, it's a shame, I'd love to keep up with these characters and see what they get up to in their lives, but that just can't happen. Clover sacrificed themself for a happy ending they'd never get to see (disregarding resurrection theory), and this is a consequence of that.

>>3821806
>None of the UT games have endings. The stories don't end. There's never a point where the story has a definitive stopping point,
the genocide and true pacifist endings are pretty definitive, anon. In one you destroy the whole world, and in the other you solve everyone's problems.
>Tell me, what exactly would a "good ending" look like? Clover accepts their friend's offer to live with them in secrecy and not offer up their soul?
Yes. Fuck the future and any future humans. They don't appear in UTY so they don't matter to how it should end.

>As for everyone else, they don't simply stop existing once the camera stops following them, that's just where we stop being able to see them. As I said before, their lives simply fade into the greater noise of the underground. We see a little bit of what they get up to after our time with them has ended, but it's not like their lives have specific conclusions or anything, and that's exactly how the original UT handled things. You get to see the main cast hanging out on the surface, but you never really get to see any specifics, the trajectories of their lives.
That's just how it is, we can only follow them for so long.
By that logic, endings a concept don't exist. The story ends when our experience of it ends. That's how this always works. And the ending should be satisfying. A dissatisfying ending is a poorly written one.

>>3821806
To add to this. Whether or not UTY prevents the true pacifist ending does not matter because I've already seen the UT true pacifist ending. It already happened. You can kill literally every UT character and it doesn't undo that true pacifist ending already happening. UTY has no good ending, and it ruins the game.

>>3821809
>the genocide and true pacifist endings are pretty definitive, anon. In one you destroy the whole world, and in the other you solve everyone's problems.
The genocide ending is fairly definitive, sure, but pacifist isn't much of an ending either. The barrier is broken and monsterkind is free, but what happens next? How is the human civilization on the surface going to react? How will monsterkind acclimate to life on the surface after being trapped underground for so long? How will the main cast members live their lives from now on? We don't get to see much of any of that in UT, it's not so much of a "happily ever after" ending so much as it is a "the adventure continues" ending.
UTY was made with the explicit purpose of being able to continue into UT, so of course its ending was going to be like this, that was the point. It's the story of how the fallen human before Frisk lost their soul, not the story of how the fallen human before Frisk lived happily ever after and nothing bad ever happened to them ever.
>>3821812
>UTY has no good ending, and it ruins the game.
That is entirely subjective. I personally think the ending to UTY is fine, but furthermore, I don't buy into the idea that a mediocre or even bad ending can outright ruin a game. Deus Ex has some pretty lame endings, but it's still one of the greatest games of all time. Mass Effect 3 had a lame ending, but I still enjoyed it when I first went through it. A story doesn't start just to end, the experience as a whole matters too, and while a bad ending can certainly leave a sour taste in your mouth, you're absolutely being overdramatic by saying it ruins the whole game because it simply doesn't.

>>3821815
>but what happens next? H
And then they all lived happily ever after. That's how this works. That's how this always works. No one cares about accilmating to the surface or human kind reacting to the monsters because that complicates the satisfying conclusion.
>UTY was made with the explicit purpose of being able to continue into UT, so of course its ending was going to be like this, that was the point.
And it tied a noose around its neck doing that. Canon must come second to the quality of the narrative. You could just as easily make a "the adventure continues" ending for UTY, but they chose not to because they had this albatross tied around their neck.
>I don't buy into the idea that a mediocre or even bad ending can outright ruin a game
A bad ending can ruin even the most perfect masterpiece of a story. If it was all for nought, then I've not only wasted my time, but actively come off worse because I gained a bunch of attachments only for them to be ripped up and stomped on at the end. Worse than no story at all.
>Deus Ex has some pretty lame endings
Deus Ex had excellent endings. The presentation was a little lackluster, but narratively and thematically they were great.
>Mass Effect 3 had a lame ending, but I still enjoyed it when I first went through it.
I have never in my life enjoyed a story with a bad endiing. Or rather I have, but the ending makes me wish I hadn't. Makes me wish I never read it at all, and makes me desperately want to forget about it.
>it simply doesn't.
That's just as subjective, if not more so, than all of my claims you're calling subjective. Bad endings absolutely can and do ruin stories for a lot of people, myself included. I usually just avoid things entirely or leave them unfinished so I never have to experience the bad ending because I hate them so much.

>>3821815
>I don't buy into the idea that a mediocre or even bad ending can outright ruin a game.
whenever something ends with 'it was just a dream' or 'a simulation' or whatever it totally kills it for me

>>3821806
Clover could live out his natural lifespan and when he dies of old age, give up his soul to the monsters. The whole suicide ending is ridiculous if one seriously thinks about it.
It's not implausible to think at least one of the fallen humans lived out a full natural lifespan, or lived until falling ill and dying peacefully. If that's not an option in a fangame there should be a good reason why not. Killing a monster, even accidentally, and being hunted for it would be an example.
>>3821815
>The barrier is broken and monsterkind is free, but what happens next? How is the human civilization on the surface going to react? How will monsterkind acclimate to life on the surface after being trapped underground for so long? How will the main cast members live their lives from now on? We don't get to see much of any of that in UT, it's not so much of a "happily ever after" ending so much as it is a "the adventure continues" ending.
The way Toby wrote it is as a "happily ever after" ending. I'll just admit he sucks at worldbuilding and never put serious thought into what would happen afterwards. It's never addressed how absorbing a human soul would make a monster a world-ending threat, or how a human psycho could slaughter monsters with impunity. For all intents and purposes we're meant to ignore it and say it's outside the scope of the game. Toby could have written it as the monsters being raptured into literal heaven and it would have the same effect.
>>3821815
Gainax endings are a good example of how endings aren't the most important part of the story.

You want a better ending here you go
>"So what do we do now?"
>"The Royal Guard's still after Clover, and Flowey's still out there,"
>"I don't know, but I do know one thing..."
>"Whatever we do, we'll do it together"
>"Because together, nothing can stop us."
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjltM2qv_0&t=22

Boom, now you've got a continuing adventure for the player to fantasize about, instead of a completely avoidable forced tragedy to dwell on, and plenty of room for an au sequel if you ever wanted to make one.

>>3821838

>>3821838
>"Because together, nothing can stop us."
I think seeing that yellow soul in a jar in the first game is a pretty solid counter argument to that.

>>3821866
(you) already changed history, that jar was another timeline.

>>3821835
>Clover could live out his natural lifespan and when he dies of old age, give up his soul to the monsters. The whole suicide ending is ridiculous if one seriously thinks about it.
This topic has already come up a ton in the /v/ threads, and I don't wanna go over all this again, but in short, there really wasn't another way around it. Not a pleasant one anyway.
In order for Clover to have lived out a full life in the underground before giving up their soul, they would've had to spend literal decades in constant hiding from the royal guard, and effectively had to live as a hermit. Yeah, a lot of the monsters we see in UT and UTY are fairly amicable, but we know for a fact that monsters are just as capable of being vindictive and hostile, like with Undyne and the Mad Dummy, so it's not a given that any monster who sees Clover just wouldn't rat them out to the guard. Every social encounter they have, every time they leave their hiding place, Clover would effectively be gambling with their life and whether or not they get found out. That's no way to live, not for an entire life, not for someone who's still a child.
And yes, there are monsters who can reliably kill humans. Monsters are way stronger than most people give them credit for, it's just that being able to save and load makes them appear weaker since *eventually* you can win in any fight, given that you have effectively infinite attempts to do so.
Also, while some monsters can't recognize a human by sight, some monsters can tell you're human immediately, so it's not necessarily the case that Clover could hide in plain sight either.

Basically, Clover saw the writing on the wall, and rather than put all their friends through the emotional turmoil of having to hide and take care of them and constantly risk being caught, they chose to rip the bandaid off early before it would cause too many problems.

>>3821874
What if he put on a fursuit or some animal ears? Monsters are canonically stupid.

>>3821880
>>3821874
that's literally the plot of wildfire, its why riley wears that hoodie with bunny ears, he was living for about a month underground in hiding before the events of the game
though somehow he is found out which kickstarts the events of the game

>>3821880
>What if he put on a fursuit or some animal ears? Monsters are canonically stupid.
*Some* monsters are stupid, others can tell what you're about after looking you in the eyes once.
The same disguise that would fool a froggit or something isn't gonna have the same effect on Sans, or anyone with half a brain as the main cast seems to have.

>>3821882
Sans is a lazy jackass. Just don't go to Snowdin.
>anyone with half a brain as the main cast seems to have.
A fursuit or some green face paint would work on everyone aside from Sans. They are all stupid.

>>3821881
>he was living for about a month underground in hiding
Yeah, a month. How good were their living conditions exactly also? Living like that in the underground seems more like a matter of bare survival, as opposed to really living. Again, in Clover's situation, it just wasn't worth it in the end.
They wouldn't have had much time (especially after the fight with Ceroba in the middle of the capital city, there's no way that didn't catch anyone's attention), and they didn't want it to hurt their friends anymore than it was already going to.

>>3821885
>Sans is a lazy jackass. Just don't go to Snowdin.
That was just an example, there are other monsters who can tell you're human. Just about every guard in Snowdin (with dialogue) stops you over suspicions of being human, and so do the guards in Hotland, and Undyne, and a ghjkillion other characters because most monsters in this game actually aren't stupid. The fucking Temmies know you're human for fuck's sake.

>>3821886
>How good were their living conditions exactly also?
He had a cozy cabin in the woods, so I think he was doing pretty good. A lot better than he was on the surface, since he was a newly homeless there.
>it just wasn't worth it in the end
It wasn't that bad, anon. In fact I would say he had it pretty good. I think he could talk his way out of most fights even if the monsters recognize him. And with his growing list of friends, his chances get better with every fight won. Eventually it'd get to the point where there'd be a large faction in the underground arguing against killing all humans. And keep in mind the only reason Asgore is killing humans is because everyone else wants it, if they don't want it then he has no reason to kill Clover, and every reason not to.

The only problem here is Flowey, and honestly I think him coming after you've gotten your perfect pacifist ending and resetting would be a much more satisfying conclusion than suicide. It still gives you a good ending and shows everyone being happy, while nicely setting up Undertale.

>>3821887
Because you're walking around not even hiding the fact that you're a human. No shit half the underground recognizes you when you look smell and act exactly like one.

>>3821888
>against killing all humans.
Against killing *all* humans, sure, but against killing just a few more humans to break the barrier? Almost certainly not. We see in the neutral endings to the original UT that it only takes a few deaths in the underground for the people to revolt against Toriel's policy against killing humans, so even if Clover was a good person all around, what about the integrity human that fell before them? That wound would still be relatively fresh in the minds of the citizens of the underground, there's no way you'd get a significant faction of monsters willing to completely oppose the idea of killing humans like that.

>>3821888
> I think him coming after you've gotten your perfect pacifist ending and resetting would be a much more satisfying conclusion than suicide.
That literally isn't a conclusion. That explicitly shows that such an ending isn't an ending at all, and that you're still just stuck with the normal UTY pacifist endings as your actual endings.

>>3821890
He'd be able to convince them that they shouldn't kill him. Remember that all it took was Frisk being nice and Papyrus making a few phone calls for half the underground to barge into Asgore's throne room and demand that he spare Frisk. Even Undyne said they should just find some other human to kill. And remember that Asgore caved instantly.

>>3821892
That would replace the normal UTY pacifist ending. And instead of it making you mad at Clover, Martlet, Ceroba, and Starlo, and dumpstering all of their characters, it lets all of them have complete arcs. And its just as much a conclusion as any of the other endings since Flowey can and does reset those too.

>>3821889
Let's be real here, how exactly do you disguise your species?
It's not like a human disguising as another human where you can use makeup to change your skin tone, a wig to change your hair or different clothes to hide your body type, we're talking disguising literally everything about your appearance.
Just wearing a mask isn't gonna cut it, any monster with average intelligence (which again, there are lots of) would still be suspicious of you just for wearing a mask 24/7. It's not like you could try and disguise yourself with fake monster features either, since anyone would be able to tell they're fake based on the fact that they wouldn't move like normal anatomical features. Animal's ears move, fake ears that you have attached to a headband don't, etc.
Face it, hiding in the underground for any significant length of time would be way harder than any of you are making it out to be.

>>3821887
the dogs can all be fooled, and all the other guards take a minute to realize that you're a human.
the only ones that can recognize you on the spot are
>toriel, asgore, and gerson - around for the human war
>sans - a gigaknower of some kind
>alphys and undyne - GIGANTIC ANIME DORKS
besides, if we're considering clover's survivability then ya gotta consider the flower girls since they're from the same game.
they're fine and they look almost exactly like humans. wouldnt take much to make clover look like he's a long lost cousin.
if we assume they're kids and not just really short he'd probably be able to convince one of them to help him pull his bullshit off

>>3821897
>That would replace the normal UTY pacifist ending.
That's completely retarded. Instead of getting any kind of conclusion to the story, just cocktease the player with a happy ending where all their favorite characters get to live in peace and harmony, and then rip it away at the last second for no reason.
Have you ever played Undertale? Are you new here?
If you just want an ending that doesn't mess up the characters as much, go look at the Shades of Justice true pacifist ending earlier in the thread: >>3819704

>>3821902
As I said before, literally the fucking Temmies can recognize that you're human, they even have dialogue referring to you about it.
If a Temmie can tell you're human at first glance, that leaves the door open for plenty of monsters to be able to recognize you, and that's a major problem for survivability.
Sure, not every monster can tell you're human, but quite a few can, especially a lot of the dangerous ones.

>>3821906
the temmies are a shitpost.

>>3821902
>ya gotta consider the flower girls since they're from the same game.
they're fine and they look almost exactly like humans.
The flower girls have gigantic bulbous eyes and technicolor skin tone, I don't think anyone would take them for a human, or that anyone would take Clover for one of them. They look nothing alike.

>>3821909
Yeah, a shitpost that's canon to the game. You can't rule them out just because they're a big joke, they're canonically part of the game's story and world, and you can't inherently exclude them from discussions as such. The Temmies are monsters that live in the underground and can tell that you're human, that's a valid point in my favor. Sorry pal.

>>3821899
Paint yourself green and say you're a zombie, wear a bird themed fursuit and have martlet vouch for you, say you're a ghost who's merged with a doll.

>Just wearing a mask isn't gonna cut it, any monster with average intelligence (which again, there are lots of) would still be suspicious of you just for wearing a mask 24/7.
I don't believe you. They would fall for that because most of them can't tell you're a human even without a disguise. Remember all the friendly NPCs explicitly think you're a monster.
> Animal's ears move, fake ears that you have attached to a headband don't
I don't think they'd notice, and if they did, they'd believe any BS explanation you gave them. Just say your ears were paralyzed in an unfortunate ice skating accident. Or if they fell off just say you lost your real ears in a gunpowder explosion.

>Face it, hiding in the underground for any significant length of time would be way harder than any of you are making it out to be.
No you're vastly over estimating the competence of monsters.

>>3821911
Ah damn, the green broke. Whatever, you get my point.

>>3821911
>give him a face mask
>spray paint him or wait for jaundice to kick in
>say that he's from a tribal jungle area of the underground and thats why he looks a bit different from the other flower girls.
boom, done.
>>3821913
so by your own logic every single lore discussion in the game needs to consider the dogcheck room and every single deltarune theory needs to consider the annoying dog.

>>3821903
It doesn't matter if Flowey resets after I got the ending, I still got the ending. I do care if all my work was for nothing and Clover betrays me by killing himself and all his friends join in on it.

>>3821916
>so by your own logic every single lore discussion in the game needs to consider the dogcheck room and every single deltarune theory needs to consider the annoying dog.
Yes. We know the annoying dog is canon, characters in-universe explicitly refer to it multiple times, it's a canon presence in the underground and in the world of Deltarune (though apparently only in the dark worlds, which is interesting, but I digress). Arguing that something in UTDR isn't canon just because it's not as grounded or serious as some other things means gutting about half the series, I hate to break it to ya.

>>3821918
anon im not saying that its not canon, im saying that you're not supposed to take it seriously.
anyways thanks for proving that you're not worth the time

>>3821917
>I do care if all my work was for nothing and Clover betrays me by killing himself and all his friends join in on it.
Buddy, I think that might just be your problem at this rate. If you genuinely went into UTY expecting a happy ending, you may just be stupid, I'm sorry to say. That's like going into Halo: Reach expecting all of Noble team to make it out alright and for nothing bad to happen, or watching Revenge of the Sith and being upset that Anakin fell to the dark side.
The entire point of the story is that it doesn't have a happy ending, that's what you signed up for at the start. From the beginning, you knew the end, and while it is a very optimistic and human thing to hope against hope that things could be better, insisting that it's a problem with the game that it didn't have a happy ending is just ridiculous honestly.

>>3821913
>>3821917
I should clarify, I don't want all the ending to be horrible "fuck you, die" endings. Those are the only ones in the game. At least the hypothetical reset ending lefts me have a happy ending before resetting.

>>3821920
>you're not supposed to take it seriously.
Buddy, that applies to about half this entire series. You don't get to pick and choose what does and does not matter, it all exists in the same world, the same context, and that context matters.
The episode of Cowboy Bebop where they fight the evil fridge monster still takes place in the same world where Spike died on that staircase, it doesn't just not matter.

I just want them to be happy...

>>3821922
>I think that might just be your problem at this rate
Yeah, and I'm trying to get it solved. If that means being a keyboard warrior against bad endings in my Undertales then so be it. I hate this shit and anyone who does it I want nothing more than for it to be undone in UTY and to never happen again.
>Halo: Reach expecting all of Noble team to make it out alright and for nothing bad to happen, or watching Revenge of the Sith and being upset that Anakin fell to the dark side.
Those are linear stories with one ending and they're not Undertale. I'm not expecting happy endings for any of the characters in them (though Star Wars still gives Anakin a satisfying conclusion in Return of The Jedi, unlike any of the UTY characters) I am however expecting SOMETHING from Undertale.
>The entire point of the story is that it doesn't have a happy ending, that's what you signed up for at the start.
I didn't sign up for that, I signed up for more Undertale. Them tying this narrative albatross around their neck was entirely their choice.

>>3821927
I know. I do too. For as hard as I'm arguing about this, I'd love for there to be an ending where everyone gets out okay, where everyone finally gets to be free and live their lives. Clover did too. That's what they did it for. Even if it meant they'd never get to see it.

Eh, who knows, maybe that resurrection theory panned out in the end. No one knows why those coffins went empty, after all.

Oh, just go read Golden Years if you want a happy ending so much, it's about as clean as it gets.

>>3821927
Nah, bro. You're not allowed to, that's a you problem. Its unrealistic. They have to suffer because "muh prequel".

>>3821931
>That's what they did it for. Even if it meant they'd never get to see it.
THEN THEY'RE NOT HAPPY

Fuck you, all of this is optional, and you defending it is going to make it happen more.

>>3821930
>I didn't sign up for that, I signed up for more Undertale. Them tying this narrative albatross around their neck was entirely their choice.
The devs set out to make a story about what happened to the yellow soul-ed human, and they did. Naturally, that story had to explain how that soul ended up in a jar, and it did. From the beginning, you knew the end.

I should make another one of those dumb drawovers, but with the UTY cast as Noble team. Pfft.

>>3821933
"There's so many good stories where some brave hero has to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors cheer, and everyone lives happily ever after. But the hero never gets to see the ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith. Ain’t that a bitch.”
- Epsilon

I know, I get it, but it's how it is pal. I can't blame you for wanting a happy ending, or for wanting to spend more time with these characters, but it simply wasn't meant to be. There ain't nothing wrong with telling a sad story, you know? Even when it hurts.

>>3821934
What about genocide, though? That's an explicitly non-canon ending where Clover gets to live. I don't see why there can't also be another one under more extraneous circumstances, like beating a superboss fight against Asgore in pacifist or something.

>>3821931
I guess that's fair. It just hurts.

>>3821937
nobody's asking for it to be the canon ending. just for it to be there as an option like genocide.

>>3821938
>What about genocide, though? That's an explicitly non-canon ending where Clover gets to live.
That's a bit more complicated, but that's mostly because the genocide route in UTY, as well as in UTDR (to the extent that DR lets you) has a tendency to break the story. When you do a genocide route, you are forcibly destroying the story, because now instead of the game being about dealing the barrier, or getting to Asgore, or sealing the dark fountains or anything, it becomes about killing every important character in the events of the game, and stopping everything in it's tracks. UT is normally about dealing with Flowey/Asriel and dealing with the monsters being stuck underground, the genocide route completely discards all of that in favor of it being about you completely eradicating the world and it's inhabitants. In chapter 2 of DR, doing the snowgrave route effectively lobotomizes the story past a certain point, with one of the main characters being killed off, another one leaving your party way earlier, and the actual back half of the chapter's story revolving around a completely different antagonist who's normally just a secret boss. In UTY, the story is normally about Clover traveling through the underground in an attempt to get justice for the previous fallen humans, only for them to end up making friends along the way, and eventually opting to give up their soul instead. In UTY's genocide route, you meticulously exterminate every monster you come across in the name of vengeance for those fallen humans, and it ends with you killing the king of all monsters, and leaving the underground with the human souls.
The reason why Clover gets to live in *that* ending is because the context of what's happening is entirely different, the story is entirely different.
In any other context, there's simply no way. They either choose to give up their soul willingly, or they just aren't strong enough to beat Asgore.

>>3821942
I was responding to a guy earlier in this thread who wanted the true pacifist ending to be replaced with an ending where the game cockteases the player with a perfectly happy ending, only for Flowey to reset it all away. I have no real issues with a happy ending being an optional secret ending or anything like that, I'm arguing against people who think the main endings should've been outright replaced.

>>3821934
>>3821937
>Naturally, that story had to explain how that soul ended up in a jar
No it didn't, it didn't mean he had to die, and it didn't mean he had to kill himself, nor did it mean his friends had to cheer it on. You can make a non canon ending where he lives. you can just say fuck canon, and openly defy to make a good ending.

>From the beginning, you knew the end.
Well you know what? Fuck the end, fuck canon, and fuck you.

*fangame beam attack*

In all seriousness, I do genuinely hate this sentiment and my hatred for it is a major reason I started working on my own fangame.

There is no meant to be, it can be whatever you want it to be, and you should choose something better.

>>3821944
>I was responding to a guy earlier in this thread who wanted the true pacifist ending to be replaced with an ending where the game cockteases the player
I would accept it just being a secret ending. All I want is the removal of the suicide ending and the addition of a good ending. I don't really care what you replace the suicide ending with, as long as it doesn't frame Clover dying as a good thing.

>>3821943
>In any other context, there's simply no way.
There's only no way in this strict system that you've devised. If you can't win, just change the rules. Clover can't beat Asgore by himself, then don't have him fight alone, or don't have him fight at all, or hell have him anyways despite the fact that by all rights he shouldn't. Just lying down and accepting this shows a profound weakness of will and lack of creativity.

>>3821950
>There is no meant to be, it can be whatever you want it to be, and you should choose something better.
The devs set out to make a story with a certain conclusion in mind, that's "meant to be". Things are only meant to be if they're influenced by something that can "mean" anything, so in this case, it was meant to be this way.
The UTY devs set out to make a story that showed what might've happened to the yellow soul that resulted in it ending up in that jar. If you didn't want a story that ended that way, go play something else. A story isn't bad because it doesn't have a happy ending, that's your own issue. I agree that the endings aren't perfect, again, see SoJ ending earlier ITT, but the game ending with Clover choosing to sacrifice themself isn't a problem.

>>3821937
I guess what really makes me so mad here is that Clover didn't give his life to save the day, he just gave up and died for nothing. All of those things still would've happened without his sacrifice, and his friends still suffer regardless of what he does. His suffering doesn't even end because he gets shoved in a soul jar for the unforseeable future. There is no upside to this that matters.

>>3821796
>There was never any other way out that didn't involve Clover dying and everyone else's lives returning to how they were before, until the next human came along.
So why not allow us to end the story in a Neutral run ending? Its either "everybody gets to live lolol" or "only ceroba dies" or "everybody dies and this isnt canon actually because the human gets through the barrier lolol"

>>3821954
Then the devs were wrong for choosing to make a game about that. Mandatory unavoidable bad ending in Undertale is the wrong choice. It should not happen. Period.

>>3821953
>Just lying down and accepting this shows a profound weakness of will and lack of creativity.
No, the problem with all this is that it completely breaks the tone of the game derails the story into utter nonsense. Again, having some secret ending where everyone gets to live a little while longer isn't an issue (though that does still leave the issue of the future fallen humans, and the fact that there are still only 5 souls now), but saying that the current endings should be outright replaced with a wish-fulfillment "no one will ever die again!!!!" ending is stupid. UTY is a story that was written to end with a bittersweet ending, that was the whole point of the story. Not everything has to end with sunshine and rainbows, sometimes having a sad ending is the point.

>>3821959
>It should not happen. Period.
You know you have to be 18 years old or older to post here, right?

>>3821954
>go play something else.
Stop baiting me by making every other aspect so appealing. This is like putting an apple full of razor blades out and then being mad that people wished it didn't have razor blades in it.

It looks like a story that should have a happy ending. I should be able to choose a happy ending. And I feel cheated and lied to because I can't.

>>3821963
Dickriding devs of a deeply flawed game and refusing to accept their failings is a massive mark of being underage.

>>3821956
Except Clover *did* give his life to save the day, it just didn't happen immediately. Flowey wouldn't have been able to turn back into Asriel and break the barrier if he didn't have enough souls, and Clover's sacrifice helped make sure that those future events could play out as they needed to.
Frisk would've been completely fucked if there were only 5 souls in the underground, since no matter which way you spin it, there just wouldn't have been enough souls/soul power to break the barrier. Maybe they could've gotten out by killing Asgore and taking his soul, but everyone else would be screwed.

>>3821961
It doesn't have to be "no one will ever die again" but it could at least be something besides Clover killing himself for nothing.

>>3821967
>Dickriding devs of a deeply flawed game and refusing to accept their failings is a massive mark of being underage.
I'm absolutely not dickriding them, I think UTY has lots of problems, I even have problems with the way the true pacifist ending is written, I just don't think the endings being sad is one of those problems because my emotions aren't as fragile as a Faberge egg.

>>3821968
Clover could have died any other way and the day would have been saved. His choice there did not matter. And if he did survive and prevent the events of Undertale, it doesn't matter because Undertale is another game where none of the UTY characters appear. Off screening their endings is not a resolution. Which means none of them get a happy ending, and none of the characters in UT that did get one matter. Not to mention that all of his friends will carry the trauma and misery of Clover killing himself for the rest of their lives. It would have been better if he had just reset and killed himself in the ruins. At least then they wouldn't have been hurt. No one wins in that ending.

>>3821971
Its not even Undertale at that point. Part of what makes Undertale what it is the ability to have that nice feel good ending. Without it, it reduces itself to the likes of skeleton slop, which completely ignore the tone of the series in favor of whatever the fanfic author felt like including. Which sets up the audience to think they're getting one thing, only to get the exact opposite. Its narrative false advertising.

>>3821975
>And if he did survive and prevent the events of Undertale, it doesn't matter because Undertale is another game where none of the UTY characters appear.
Man, you people just cannot wrap your head around the concept of a prequel, huh?
>Off screening their endings is not a resolution.
We see their endings in the true pacifist route of UTY. That being, "life goes on". They simply continue to live out their lives, now all a little bit different from Clover's influence, until eventually the next game happens. That's the resolution. UT did the exact same thing in it's true pacifist ending, this isn't a problem.

>>3821978
>Man, you people just cannot wrap your head around the concept of a prequel, huh?
A prequel should be completely divorced narratively from the story its a prequel to, otherwise it's permanently crippling itself narratively. It can;t make any bold decisions and can't even decide its own ending. 90% of prequels are made wrong. Temple of Doom and KoToR are the only ones I can think of that do it right.
>That being, "life goes on".
Life goes on, worse than it was before. Meaning your whole journey was a net detriment for everyone involved.
>UT did the exact same thing in it's true pacifist ending
No it didn't. It solved everyone's problems and gave everyone a happy ending. The only "problems" and "life goes on" left are supposed to be handwaved away because they get in the way of the satisfying ending.

>>3821976
>nice feel good ending.
Undertale arguably doesn't have a feel good ending. Even ignoring things like the amalgamates being stuck like that indefinitely, or Asriel being stuck as Flowey again, the game even acknowledges that you have the power to rip this all away at your own discretion. It's not a "happily ever after", it's an uneasy peace for as long as you want it to be. For a lot of people, that meant going back and slaughtering everyone, just for the sake of it.
>Its narrative false advertising.
It's not false advertising, you just didn't pay attention to what you were getting into. Your entire argument here boils down to "this game hurt my feelings and I think that should be illegal!".
Newsflash pal, not every story needs or has a happy ending. Sometimes the most narratively fitting conclusion to a story is one that feels sad. Hurts, even. That's the point of storytelling, the point of Undertale in general honestly. To make you feel something, an attachment to the world it describes, even if it makes it hurt.
The game never set you up to think that the game was gonna have a feel good ending. In fact, if you've actually played UT, you'd have gone in expecting the exact opposite, because it's the most obvious thing in the fucking world. UTY wasn't just about the ending, it was about the experience you had getting there. The ending was telegraphed from a mile away, you were just so oblivious to it that you made up your own ending in your head and got upset when the game didn't live up to a promise it never made.
This isn't an issue with the game having a bad ending, this is an issue with you lacking reading comprehension.

>>3821982
>the amalgamates
Are shown to be happy after being reunited with their families
>Flowey
Says he'll be OK and to not worry about him
>The player
its entirely your choice whether or not you reset the game. And either way you get what you want.

>It's not false advertising, you just didn't pay attention to what you were getting into. Your entire argument here boils down to "this game hurt my feelings and I think that should be illegal!".
Are you saying its not perfectly in character for Undertale to include a secret good ending? Because if so you're wrong. I genuinely expected they were going to do that because its a hallmark of the series to reward the player like that.
> In fact, if you've actually played UT, you'd have gone in expecting the exact opposite, because it's the most obvious thing in the fucking world.
I played UT and that's why I had high hopes that I could get a good ending here. UT lets you break the rules of the universe and defy fate to get a good ending all the time. It'd make perfect for a UT prequel to let you break the plot of UT just so you can get your way in it.

>>3821980
>Temple of Doom and KoToR are the only ones I can think of that do it right.
Don't know about that first one, but as for KoToR, that's because it takes place so far in the past that it may as well just be it's own separate continuity at that point. Literally nothing shown in KoToR had any real ramifications for anything else in SW, even before the Disney buyout, because it's so far in the past that anything shown in it would either not exist or be irrelevant by the time of SW's main story. That's not a prequel, that's just another story in the same universe sometime in the past, it's almost entirely unrelated to everything else. The vast majority of prequels exist to be stories that directly precede other existing stories, which was the explicit purpose of UTY, to precede UT.
>Life goes on, worse than it was before. Meaning your whole journey was a net detriment for everyone involved.
Missing the point. Clover's life and sacrifice had a profound effect on the lives of the people they knew, but thanks to their sacrifice, monsterkind was one step closer to freedom. Even aside from that, Clover helped so many people in so many different ways. They helped Martlet get a better idea of what she wants to do with her life, they helped Starlo ditch the unhealthy attachment he had to his "North Star" persona and be himself, they helped Dalv get over his trauma from the snowdin incident, they helped Ceroba finally move on from [everything she had going on, too much to type here], and countless others they ran into along their journey. Just because Clover's journey ended with a sacrifice doesn't mean it was all for nothing. Thinking so would be to completely miss the point of the game's story, and the point of UT in general. A life doesn't begin just to end, they did good things along the way, and that's what really matters.

>>3821918
>though apparently only in the dark worlds
Annoying Dog does not appears on-screen in light worlds but it is present there (disrupts traffic in chapter 2, hogs the computer lab in chapter 1)

>>3821988
>Are shown to be happy after being reunited with their families
And are also permanently stuck as immortal goo monsters made of several people mashed together who are effectively experiencing turbo-dementia forever. Sure, they're with their families, but how do you think that all works behind closed doors? I'd bet it's anything but happy.
>Says he'll be OK and to not worry about him
Flowey/Asriel is full of shit about nearly everything he says to you, he isn't telling you that he'll be okay and not to worry about him because that's the truth, he's telling you that so you won't worry about him. Same reason why Asriel says he doesn't want to see his parents again when you talk to him in the end, it's not because he actually doesn't want to see them, it's because he doesn't want *them* to see *him*. He doesn't want to put them through that kind of thing, at least while he still has proper emotions.
>Are you saying its not perfectly in character for Undertale to include a secret good ending? Because if so you're wrong. I genuinely expected they were going to do that because its a hallmark of the series to reward the player like that.
UT doesn't have a secret good ending, it has a normal good ending that it railroads you towards every time you get a neutral ending, and a secret bad ending for when you do a genocide route and think you can just undo it with no consequences. It's perfectly in character for UT or a UT inspired game to limit your options like that, UT did that shit all the time, including a technically pacifist neutral ending where Asgore chooses to kill himself for your sake. UT did bad/sad endings a ton, so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
>I played UT and that's why I had high hopes that I could get a good ending here.
If you actually did play UT you'd have seen the writing on the wall and known where the game was heading from the start and not be throwing such a fit about it.

>>3821990
>Don't know about that first one
You've never watched Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom?
> That's not a prequel, that's just another story in the same universe sometime in the past, it's almost entirely unrelated to everything else.
A prequel is just a story that takes place before another story. It doesn't need to have any relation to it beyond that, and the fewer relations it has the better.
>the vast majority of prequels exist to be stories that directly precede other existing stories
And they're worse for it. They could be so much better if they didn't exist just for the sake of another story.
>which was the explicit purpose of UTY, to precede UT.
I'm saying that shouldn't be its purpose. Its so close to being the ideal kind of prequel and then it throws it all away for the sake of a sob story and a poorly executed self sacrifice ending. It would have been so much better to have that "how'd the soul end up in the jar" just be one ending among many.
>, they did good things along the way, and that's what really matters.
You can say that all you want, but that doesn't make it feel true. If he gets fucked at the end it really does undo any good that came of it. But hell maybe I could have accepted it if he just hadn't killed himself.

As is, I hate it and can never call it anything other than bad. Which sucks because I really want to like it. I wouldn't be so emotionally invested in this argument if I didn't care about the characters and the story. I just wish they had given me something.

The only option I have is to go as hard as I can against this kind of stuff in the hopes that it will convince other devs not to repeat it.

>>3821988
>UT lets you break the rules of the universe and defy fate to get a good ending all the time.
UT lets you do that for exactly one ending, and it all gets ripped away from you if you ever did a genocide route on your save file.
99% of the time, you are completely bound to the rules UT sets up for you. For all endings but one, there's no way to get past the barrier without at least one death at your hands. There's no way to spare certain enemies in certain contexts, no way to kill certain NPCs, no alternative paths through the underground, no way around Asgore except true pacifist, etc. UT puts heavy limits on what you can do. If anything, UT emphasizes that the pacifist route is only possible because of a long sequence of events going in a very specific way, to the point that even a single monster being dead completely prevents it from happening at all.
You are absolutely bound to the rules in UT, and that's no different in UTY. The difference is that UTY was part of the setup for the massive chain of events that allowed the pacifist ending in UT to happen, and that UTY itself doesn't allow you an out like UT did because of that.

>>3822000
>but how do you think that all works behind closed doors?
You're not supposed to think about it
>Flowey
Ok, so that's one character, who isn't the player character being in a shitty situation, but he's still alive and at least would rather be that way than dead. As opposed to the main character dying on purpose and making everyone, especially the player, miserable.
>UT did bad/sad endings a ton, so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
But it let me have a good ending, and it bent over backwards to give me one. I don't think unreasonable to believe I could get a good ending where I shouldn't if I worked hard enough.
>If you actually did play UT you'd have seen the writing on the wall and known where the game was heading from the start and not be throwing such a fit about it.
UT is all about player empowerment and how much power the player has over the game world, so I was expecting to at least have the power to get a decent ending.

Why do you want the endings to all be miserable so badly?

Will you faggots just kiss already

>>3822006
>You've never watched Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom?
No, but I have been planning to watch the series at some point. I hear they're good.
>And they're worse for it. They could be so much better if they didn't exist just for the sake of another story.
Then why make it a prequel? What's the point of having a story take place in a specific pre-existing universe if it isn't actually going to do anything with it? At that point, just go play some other fantasy RPG, I don't even know what you're doing here.
>I'm saying that shouldn't be its purpose.
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
>If he gets fucked at the end it really does undo any good that came of it.
How does it undo it? Really, explain. We see in the true pacifist ending of UTY that pretty much every life in the underground Clover affected is doing way better than before. Sure, their death will leave a mark on their lives that wasn't there before, but that doesn't just erase all the good they did for everyone they met. It doesn't leave Martlet back in a position she doesn't like and isn't qualified for, it doesn't make Starlo start acting like "North Star" again, it doesn't send Dalv back to the ruins, it doesn't make Ceroba go back on her letting go of Chujin, Kanako, and the serum project, etc. Impermanence doesn't mean insignificance.
>As is, I hate it and can never call it anything other than bad.
This is what is typically referred to as "emotional fragility". I get having an emotional attachment to this game and it's characters, lord knows I'm in the same boat, but not liking how the ending turned out because it hurt your feelings doesn't make it a bad ending.
Wish fulfillment has it's place, but when you're trying to tell an actual story, you can't just make it so nothing bad ever happens, *that* would be bad writing.

>>3822008
Man, I just want a good endiing. Calling the bad endiings bad writing might get me a good ending, so that's what I'm doing. Can't you at least see the benefit to that? Do you really want UTY's ending to be misery? Do you want more fangames to be the same kind of misery?

I got invested into UTY expecting at least one good ending because that's what Undertale gave me. For all its depression and dark moments, it still had a light at the end of the tunnel. Something to make it all worth it. And instead I just got a gut punch and a message saying it was a good thing when I know it wasn't.

You can call me whatever you want, but me and people like me calling bad has already gotten us two DRYs. Maybe if I keep going I'll finally get that UTY happy ending mod I want. At that point I'll be happy. But not until then.

>>3822014
>Why do you want the endings to all be miserable so badly?
I don't, I'm saying that having the main endings be wish fulfillment instead of what the game set out to do from the start would be a bad move, because again, this game is meant to be taken as an unofficial prequel. Having a secret ending is fine, I've said that, but having the main endings, the endings that most of the game is building up towards, be complete non-sequiturs that just throw away everything the game was building towards just for the sake of a nonsensically happy ending isn't good writing.
Sometimes a story is meant to have a sad ending. Sometimes the point of a story is to make you feel sad. This isn't new, this isn't some earth-shattering revelation I'm delivering unto you, this is a basic concept and fact of life. Having a sad ending is not an inherent problem with the game or it's story, you just can't handle when things don't go your way.
Again, if you want a happy ending so much, do what the original UT community did, and go read/write some fanfiction.

>>3822025
>Calling the bad endiings bad writing might get me a good ending
No, it just makes you sound like a whiny bitch who can't handle when a game does anything other than suck you off for it's entire playtime.
>Do you really want UTY's ending to be misery?
It's not misery, it's bittersweet, and your inability to determine the difference indicates a severe lack of reading comprehension.
>Do you want more fangames to be the same kind of misery?
If we're talking about fangames that are supposed to depict the journeys of the other fallen humans, then yes, at least for some of the endings. If you're telling the story about a character who we only know the existence of due to them being dead in the original story, I imagine any story about them is probably going to end with them dying. That's pretty basic logic here. Not every ending has to be that way, but it wouldn't make any sense for the *main* *true* endings to be anything but them ending up in the jar.
>a message saying it was a good thing when I know it wasn't.
Again, your own lack of reading comprehension blinds you. Clover's death didn't just undo all the good they did, and their sacrifice paved the way for the freedom of monsterkind in the future. Sure, it's sad, but that doesn't mean it was all for nothing.
>but me and people like me calling bad has already gotten us two DRYs.
No, people who are actually willing to sit down and make something instead of bitching about their own mental incompetency got us two DRYs.
>Maybe if I keep going I'll finally get that UTY happy ending mod I want. At that point I'll be happy. But not until then.
You want a happy ending? Go make one. I'm serious. If you think you can do better, put your money where your mouth is and give it your best shot. The people behind Shades of Justice did just that, and I actually think they did the true pacifist ending a bit better than base UTY.
If you actually care so much, go do something about it instead of crying about it all the time.

>>3822022
>Then why make it a prequel?
To explore other parts of the universe and other events that you didn't get to see in the main story, while still telling a new and engaging story. If you already know the fate of a prequel character then the story can't be about what happens to him. it should be about the other things he was involved with. The things you don't know about. And it shouldn't hinge on the fate that's already decided.

The problem with UTY is twofold. One is that its about the fate of Clover, instead of about something else, which Clover only happened to be involved in. Have his death be necessary for something else that isn't just to maybe break the barrier later, have him die doing something else and then his soul gets given to Asgore afterwards, then it would work. Second, it deprives the player of choice in a series that's all about player choice. If it at least let you choose to fight Asgore and then lose instead of forcing you to suicide if you don't want to kill Roba that would be something.
>At that point, just go play some other fantasy RPG
I want more Undertale. Not just any other fantasy rpg. I like the tone and the characters, I just hate the ending.
>I don't even know what you're doing here.
I was waiting for someone to make a UTY good ending mod. Now I'm just keeping track of other projects like DRY and vainly hoping that one of those mod developers will come back.
>it doesn't make Ceroba go back on her letting go of Chujin, Kanako,
She shouldn't let go of Kanako and she shouldn't have let go of Clover either.
>Impermanence doesn't mean insignificance.
It really does, but that's another issue entirely. What matters is that Clover is insignificant in UT and he dies for the sake of stuff that only happens in UT. At least make his death be for something in UTY. That's why I think so many people wanted Clover to save Kanako. That would have been a perfect prequel plot. Then Clover still dies, but now his death means something
(1/2)

>>3822022
(2/2)
> but not liking how the ending turned out because it hurt your feelings doesn't make it a bad ending.
What's the point in reading a story that does nothing but upset you. I'm not a sadist who wants to be more depressed. I read stories generally to improve my mood and have fun. Especially when they're fantasy stories about cute furries.

>Wish fulfillment has it's place, but when you're trying to tell an actual story, you can't just make it so nothing bad ever happens, *that* would be bad writing.
It doesn't have to be wish fulfillment, but at least give me something so I can say it was all worth it. Make the sacrifice an actual sacrifice and not just a character committing suicide because his friends would be better off is he was dead. Make it heroic at least. This is just depressing with benefit.

>>3822026
I would concede my entire argument if I just had a secret happy ending. But until then, or until someone makes something playable that has it, it still stands. Hell, I would at least shut up if the depressing endings were good. But they're just wholly dissatisfying. Except geno, it does its job, but its also the designated bad ending.

>>3822041
>To explore other parts of the universe and other events that you didn't get to see in the main story, while still telling a new and engaging story.
Yeah, UTY does tell a pretty new and engaging story. Sure, it's got issues, but I thought it was pretty good overall.
>If you already know the fate of a prequel character then the story can't be about what happens to him.
Sure it can, you just make the story about *how* they got to that point, as opposed to *what* happened exactly. Revenge of The Sith is a story about how the republic fell, how Anakin became Darth Vader, and how the Jedi were destroyed. We knew all these things happened already, we were told about them in the original trilogy, but the prequel trilogy isn't just about those things happening, it's about *why* they happened. The point of the prequel trilogy isn't to make you wonder whether or not Anakin will fall to the dark side, it's to answer the question of *how* it happened. You already know where it's going to end up, it's the journey to get to that point that's where the story lies, and that's the point of UTY.
You already know where it's going, it's about how we get there. Most stories in general work like this.
>It really does, but that's another issue entirely.
That's just your own personal issue at that point. Have fun grappling with the passage of time like the rest of us pal.
Joking aside, you're an idiot. Clover is insignificant to UT because it's not their story, it's Frisk's. Clover is *very* significant to UTY, because nothing they did would've happened without their presence. Everyone they met would be exactly where they were at the beginning, stuck at square one. Clover's life had an impact on the people they met, and their passing doesn't just wipe that away. Have you never had a loved one pass away? A person's death doesn't just erase them from existence, the impact they left on you is still there, for better or for worse.

>>3822030
>You want a happy ending? Go make one
I am. Its not a UTY happy ending, but I am working on fangame which is heavily inspired by misgivings with the UTY endings and to a greater extent my misgivings with the underlying philosophy of UTY's writing and prequels in general.

My complaints here are mainly in the hope that, since I'm too busy to do it, that someone else will hear my arguments, agree, and start to work on one, or at least that other fangame devs will be dissuaded from repeating UTY's mistakes.

we might hit the post limit and auto archive at this rate...

>>3822045
>What's the point in reading a story that does nothing but upset you.
Because it didn't only upset me. Sure, the ending was sad, but I also had fun with the game overall. I enjoyed the time I spent with the world, with it's characters, seeing where the story went, etc. If the ending really made it so you feel exclusively anger towards the game, you should see a doctor, cause you've got issues.
>I read stories generally to improve my mood and have fun.
Hate to break it to you pal, but that's not the point of every story. Sometimes a story has a sad ending. Sometimes a story is built around a sad ending. This isn't a problem with the story, you're just reading the wrong story. It ain't for you.
>Make the sacrifice an actual sacrifice and not just a character committing suicide because his friends would be better off is he was dead.
That's called a sacrifice. What you've just described, dying for the sake of someone else's betterment, that's a sacrifice. Your real issue here is about passivity versus activity.
And honestly, yeah, like I've said before, I think the actual sacrifice in and of itself could've been handled a bit better, but the fact remains that the ending being sad isn't a problem with the game, it's a problem with you.

>>3822052
>My complaints here are mainly in the hope that, since I'm too busy to do it, that someone else will hear my arguments, agree, and start to work on one, or at least that other fangame devs will be dissuaded from repeating UTY's mistakes.
>I am going to bitch and moan until someone rewrites someone else's fanfic for me because the ending made me cry :(

>>3822047
>I would concede my entire argument if I just had a secret happy ending. But until then, or until someone makes something playable that has it, it still stands.
I've occasionally thought about making a short fangame depicting a hypothetical secret pacifist ending with a winnable fight against Asgore. Maybe someday. Maybe.

>>3822050
>Revenge of The Sith is a story about how the republic fell, how Anakin became Darth Vader, and how the Jedi were destroyed
RoTS isn't a conventional prequel. Prequels are made after the fact with the intent of being watched?read?played after the original. The Star Wars prequels are meant to be watched first, and only got made after because George didn't have the time or money to tell that whole story in 1977. And even then the story still suffers because it treats a lot of stuff the audience already knows like big reveals.
>Have fun grappling with the passage of time like the rest of us pal.
I try not to think about it. Anything else is just cope.
> Clover is *very* significant to UTY,
I never said he wasn't. I said he was insignificant to UT, which makes him dying for the sake of UT feel hollow and pointless. Even if in universe UT hasn't happened yet, irl its already happened, its over. So him dying feels like he died for nothing, since UT has already happened.

They could at least make his death be for something in the moment.

> A person's death doesn't just erase them from existence, the impact they left on you is still there, for better or for worse.
Its always for worse after they die. At that point I just try to forget them completely because that's the only thing I can do. I can't bring them back and remembering them only makes me miserable. That's beside the point though.

>>3822057
Hey, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. You can insult me all I want. But asking is the easiest way to receive. See, its already working.
>>3822059
Thank you based anon.

>>3822060
>The Star Wars prequels are meant to be watched first, and only got made after because George didn't have the time or money to tell that whole story in 1977.
George Lucas also made the Star Wars special Editions, and the Star Wars holiday special. I don't take his word too seriously anymore.
>I never said he wasn't. I said he was insignificant to UT, which makes him dying for the sake of UT feel hollow and pointless.
Clover isn't just dying for the sake of UT, their dying for the sake of monsterkind having a future, which is a very significant topic in UTY's story.
>So him dying feels like he died for nothing, since UT has already happened.
If UT already happened than that means Clover literally didn't die for nothing, since their soul was needed to break the barrier.
>Its always for worse after they die. At that point I just try to forget them completely because that's the only thing I can do.
Again, that's your own personal problem. I value the memories I've made with people, even if they aren't around anymore for one reason or another. I wouldn't just want to forget someone simply because they're no longer in my life, that's a terrible way of going about things. Even if something isn't here anymore, it doesn't mean it didn't have an impact, you're just too shortsighted.

>>3822061
>See, its already working.
It only works if anything actually comes of it, and I'm seeing a whole lot of "maybe" in that post.
We'll see how this plays out.

From the bits and pieces I've skimmed from these threads, it looks like Cole and Kanako would fuckin' hate the Fun Gang lmao, especially if they met a few months or weeks before the events of Chapter 1
>Kris, who can hardly stomach the mere sight of humans, would have to share a class with one every single day
>there'd be ENDLESS comparisons between Cole and Kris, with the former likely being regarded as the sociable, nicer, and "better" of the two despite the lack of history with Hometown
>Constant cajoling from Toriel to make friends or say hello to that "kind Cole boy" as she'd take an interest in sharing notes with Martlet
>Kanako, with her father's pride and mother's will, wouldn't take Susie's bullshit for a microsecond and would be the closest person to getting in an outright fistfight with her
>Cole's boyscout honor and proximity to Kanako means Susie would be getting the pushback in stereo
>Possible friction between the Dreemurs and Ketsukanes if Chujin can't keep his prejudices to himself
>Cole and Kanako's mere presence could set the prophecy and the plan as we know it WAYYY off course
>Ralsei would be trying DESPERATELY to keep Cole and Kanako in the dark and accidentally overplay his hand one too many times
>Berdly would be Berdly
The only people I feel like would be cool with both parties are Noelle and Lancer.

>>3822067
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that if Cole and Kanako are privy to Roaring Knight shenanigans, Cole would probably turn Kris into swiss cheese.

>>3822067
i wonder how the Souls would react to each other, Cole's yellow soul is definitely his own but Kris'...

>>3822073
Cole and [YOU] working together to stop whatever Kris is up to with the knight?

>>3822063
>I don't take his word too seriously anymore.
This isn't just his word, he sent a script to his producer at Fox and it got rejected for being too long.
>for the sake of monsterkind having a future,
But it doesn't get resolved in his game when he dies. He just gets put in a jar and his belongings end up in the dump. UT isn't about him, and its over, so whatever happens with his soul in it really doesn't matter here.
>If UT already happened than that means Clover literally didn't die for nothing
It doesn't matter what literally happened, it matters how it feels, and it feels hollow because he died for something that already happened, and would have happened regardless of whether UTY existed.
>that's a terrible way of going about things
Its either that or I get depressed about how much I miss them. There's no point in thinking about something I can't fix if all it does is depress me. I know it serves me well because I handle grief better than anyone I know. All the rest of my family are wrecks for weeks when this sort of thing happens, and then they'll usually end up breaking down even years down the line if its brought up long enough for them to seriously think about it.
>Even if something isn't here anymore, it doesn't mean it didn't have an impact, you're just too shortsighted.
It did have an impact, I just don't like thinking about that impact because its like looking at the space of where something should be and not seeing it. Just makes me feel the absence. And on the subject of shortsightedness, even the deepest impacts fade with time. You and I will both eventually die, eventually both of our bloodlines will die out, anything that we've made will be weathered away by the elements, and after a long enough time the sun will expand and swallow up the Earth. That's why I prefer to be shortsighted about these things. Keeps me from dwelling on what I don't have any more or thinking about what I'll lose in the future. Better just to think about what I have

>>3822073
Since the red guy is basically (You), maybe you'd:
>try to constantly interact with the only other human in the game, much to Kris's pain
>try to drop as many hints as possible to get Cole and Kanako involved in the situation
All I know is that it'd certainly make things interesting. That Hometown classroom would be even more tense. Adding Integrity into the mix, depending on the characterization, would range from "terrible" to "complete and utter shitshow" in the class. Pour one out for Alphys.

>>3822070
>*Cole shoots Kris in the head six times*
>"What? It was obvious! He's the Roaring Knight."
>"Look, he'll turn black any second now,"
>"See, black! Oh wait, that's moss."

>>3822067
>the trip to hometown ends with cole having to be physically pried off of kris to keep cole from murdering him

>>3822067
Thank you for changing the subject, that topic was getting depressing.

>>3822078
>But it doesn't get resolved in his game when he dies.
Yes, that's what happens with a mulit-step process. It's not meant to be resolved in his story, because his story is part of the story of freeing monsterkind, not the other way around. Clover's story is a smaller piece of a larger world that they contribute to, the story and world doesn't revolve around them.
>It doesn't matter what literally happened, it matters how it feels, and it feels hollow because he died for something that already happened, and would have happened regardless of whether UTY existed.
That's the nature of a prequel pal, get over it. Anakin did all that shit for nothing, The Boss died for nothing, Noble Team died for nothing, Big Boss dies for nothing (kinda actually lol), etc. If you view stories in this completely bullshit chronological order, literally any story taking place before any other story in the same universe doesn't matter. You're being deliberately obstinate at this point, putting a square peg in a round hole.
>(entire last paragraph)
Sure. But that doesn't mean it doesn't matter now. Maybe I won't be remembered in a billion years from now. But that doesn't mean I'm not thought of right now. Even if a relationship I build won't necessarily matter when the universe reaches it's heat death, that doesn't mean it doesn't matter to me now, and to the other person. Even if someone I love won't be with me forever, that doesn't mean they never mattered at all.
Clover's life was short, but it wasn't insignificant. They mattered. Even if it was brief, they mattered. All of this matters.
Don't you forget it.

>>3822073
(You) and (You_yellow) having a conversation like its a gmod voice chat, Cole is blissfully ignorant, while Kris is losing his shit because no one else hears it. Noelle hears it too, but she doesn't want to admit the voices in her head are real.

>>3822083
No.
>*Drink it in front of her

>>3822067
>if they met a few months or weeks before the events of Chapter 1
What if they met for the Festival? A lot of things are already underway by then, character-wise.

>>3822089
>Clover's story is a smaller piece of a larger world that they contribute to, the story and world doesn't revolve around them
That would be fine if he weren't the player character, Since he is the player character, the world does revolve around him, even if the story refuses to admit it. Might not be so bad in a less meta series, but here, it really really feels like I should be able to save him.
>That's the nature of a prequel
It doesn't have to be and in the best prequels its not.
> If you view stories in this completely bullshit chronological order, literally any story taking place before any other story in the same universe doesn't matter
This wouldn't be a problem if he didn't die for the sake of Undertale. If he died for something in his story, and what happened in Undertale was just what happened to his soul after, it would be alright. But because he did die for something that's already over it all feels pointless.

>>3822089
>Anakin did all that shit for nothing,
That's the point in the story. What he did isn't portrayed as a good thing. Its a tragedy with no silver lining. The only good things at the end happen despite his actions, not because of them. UTY is trying to portray Clover dying for nothing as a good thing.

>kris and susie try to keep cole and kanako in the dark about dark worlds
>but they've already had their adventures in DRY so they know exactly what dark worlds are, and are actually trying to keep kris and susie in the dark
>eventually its revealed that cole and kanako have been in dark worlds before
>kanako and susie get into a massive argument about the differences between their adventures while kris is trying to ignore cole

>>3822101
>But because he did die for something that's already over it all feels pointless.
Again, not how causality works. Their death is what allowed the barrier to be broken, it happens before. Clover doesn't die for the sake of UT, they die for the sake of monsterkind's freedom. You're missing the forest for the trees here.
>That's the point in the story. What he did isn't portrayed as a good thing. Its a tragedy with no silver lining. The only good things at the end happen despite his actions, not because of them. UTY is trying to portray Clover dying for nothing as a good thing.
Okay, Anakin wasn't a great example (although arguably the republic being turned into the empire paved the way for it to be broken up later on, which is kinda a good thing since the republic sucked, but that is so not the point here), but I don't hear you taking on any of those other examples.
Clover's journey and subsequent death in the underground are absolutely good things in terms of how they affected the world around them. Yes, it's a shame that they had to die, but their death put monsterkind one step closer to freedom, which they saw as fulfilling their mission to bring justice. Clover didn't die for nothing, you just refuse to pull your head out of your ass and see the bigger picture. Even if something has an indirect impact on something, it's still an impact. It still matters.
Even if it takes time for something to take effect, it can still matter. Just because the barrier didn't break immediately after they gave up their soul doesn't mean they did it for nothing. You're doing the literary equivalent of failing the marshmallow test, not everything needs to happen immediately.

>>3822096
Things would be drastically different if they were just out of town visitors. I'm going out on a limb here and assuming that Cole & 'Nako at this point had a few dark worlds finished under their belts.
>Dialogue in the Light World would be limited. Kris would want to get away and Susie would be too distracted with hanging out with her friends to talk too much to them
>Once a dark world gets opened, either at the Festival or the Flower Shop, Cole and Kanako would go in a little while after the canon gang, thinking they're this close to catching The Outlaw
>Shortly after, the info nuke that Cole and Kanako not only can seal fountains, but have been going to Dark Worlds OUTSIDE of Hometown made by someone else would drop, should the two parties ever meet face to face.
>Susie's mind would be blown and WAY more interested in sharing stories with these strange tourists
>Ralsei would shit bricks
>Kris would be terrified

>>3822110
>Again, not how causality works.
No, that is how causality works. Clover died because the devs thought "well he has to die, how else does that soul get in the jar?".
>Clover doesn't die for the sake of UT, they die for the sake of monsterkind's freedom
Which would have happened regardless of what Clover did because Undertale has already released and the monsters have already been freed. Regardless of what he did in universe, how and why he died were written and played after. So to make it feel meaningful and feel like it has a point, it has to do something the player doesn't already take as a given.
>but I don't hear you taking on any of those other examples
That's because I know very little about the stories of MGSV and Halo Reach
> Clover didn't die for nothing, you just refuse to pull your head out of your ass and see the bigger picture
I see the bigger picture, the one beyond the internal bounds of the game. The story of Undertale already happened, nothing Clover can do would change that. Even if he lived and didn't get added to the soul collection, Undertale still happened because it released before UTY. So there's nothing new here beyond the painful experience of watching Clover die. So from the meta perspective, which is the one we're watching from, he died for nothing. That's why the ending feels hollow and lacks the sweet half of "bittersweet".

>>3822096
Most likely Susie and Kanako hits off, while Kris is uncomfortable with Cole.

>>3819502 (OP)
>thread started two days ago
>it already hit bump limit

>>3822129
Well, at least people are passionate about the discussion.

Lightner Martlet weapon concepts.Big ivory longbow and a nice sword for special attacks. Its not Anduril but it will do. Both will likely be tweaked later.

>>3822132
Make the bow string bronze so it matches her eyes.

>>3822129
If BanJan stopped getting his tendies in a twist, the deltarot would've petered out on /v/ long before this.

>>3822121
>The story of Undertale already happened, nothing Clover can do would change that.
...Except for the genocide route. A thing the devs chose to include.
Face it, the devs didn't have Clover die because they *had* to have them die, they wrote it because they wanted to because that makes way more sense than anything else, because that was the logical conclusion of the story.
>So from the meta perspective, which is the one we're watching from, he died for nothing. That's why the ending feels hollow and lacks the sweet half of "bittersweet".
Then there's nothing more to it than your own unwillingness or inability to engage with a story on it's own terms. From a meta perspective, Clover didn't do anything, because Clover is not a person. They are not an entity with their own agency and free will, they are an assemblage of pixels on a screen. From a meta perspective, Clover never "died" because they were never alive to begin with. To that same end, they also never made any choices of any kind, since the only things they can ever "do", if you can even refer to it as such, are things that were already laid out before them by their creators. Arguing this from a meta perspective is complete bullshit because that inherently defeats the point of any story in the first place. The reasoning stops being "thing a happened because the characters thought so and so...", and starts being "thing a happened because something has to happen in order for a story to exist at all". By this reasoning, literally every character in fiction "dies for nothing", because they wouldn't have had to die in the first place if people would just quit writing stories at all.
If this is how you engage with a story, I don't think fictional media in general is your cup of tea. Genuinely, you seem to fundamentally lack the cognitive capacity to engage with fiction.

>>3822133
a good idea

>>3822135
>Except for the genocide route
It didn't. Undertale still happened.
>Face it, the devs didn't have Clover die because they *had* to have them die, they wrote it because they wanted to because that makes way more sense than anything else, because that was the logical conclusion of the story.
They did geno because geno is the evil route anyways and they figured it was okay to make the evil route non-canon.
>Then there's nothing more to it than your own unwillingness or inability to engage with a story on it's own terms.
I can't unplay Undertale. I still know that the Undereground is saved already. If this story can't bring anything new to the table with its ending then its doing something wrong and should rewrite it.
>If this is how you engage with a story, I don't think fictional media in general is your cup of tea. Genuinely, you seem to fundamentally lack the cognitive capacity to engage with fiction.
I just want my stories to not depress me over old news. The freeing of monsters is old news. Do something new with his death.

>>3822141
>I can't unplay Undertale. I still know that the Undereground is saved already. If this story can't bring anything new to the table with its ending then its doing something wrong and should rewrite it.
Alright, I admit, you played a good bit. You had me going there. I see now that I've been feeding a troll this whole time, and I congratulate you for a trolling well done.

>>3822135
>>3822141
Let me elaborate. The freeing of the monsters was assured, regardless of what the UTY devs did. And they chose to cover Clover's death at the end of the story, fair enough. But they had complete freedom to write a new, interesting, and satisfying why and how to make the player be satisfied with the ending despite Clover dying. But instead they chose to give the simplest and easiest answer possible. Because he needs to do it for the thing in the other game to happen. Its deeply dissatisfying for Clover to kill himself so someone else in another can free the monsters, since you already know about that. That doesn't shock, intrigue, or impress the player. So all they're left with is the sadness and anger over Clover's death. Which they can't even alleviate because they've already beaten Undertale. So it ends the whole series on a sour note, with no real benefit.

If Clover had died in a last stand or sacrificed himself to save Kanako, then at least the player would have come away from that thinking "well, at least Kanako is okay" instead of "Why? Why does he have to die? This isn't worth it." because the UT true pacifist ending is a distant memory, as is any emotional impact it had. If anything, it doesn't lift itself up, but drag the pacifist ending down, by painting monsters as a people undeserving of freedom because of what they do to even the kindest people.

made a small mod
https://gamebanana.com/mods/612557

>>3822143
What's the troll here? I'm being completely genuine.

Let me try to rephrase. You say this is a bittersweet ending, with the sweetness being that monsters will one day be freed. But the monsters have already been freed from our perspective, it happened ten years ago. So we've already had the sweetness and plenty of time for it to wear off. Now we get Undertale Yellow and because the sweet of what Clover died for has already worn off. All we have left is the bitter. Causing our perception of the Undertale story to end on a sour note.

I'm saying the UTY ending needs to add a new element of sweetness, one not present in Undertale, so that it still feels bittersweet and justified. Rather than just bitter.

>>3822147
Well, I suppose I can feed a troll one last time here, thread's already doomed anyway.
>That doesn't shock, intrigue, or impress the player.
That's not the point of Clover's death. It's meant to sadden you, because of the unjust situation they and all the monsters have been put in. The theme of the game is justice, Clover giving up their soul to right the injustice of monsterkind's imprisonment is a fairly fitting a logical way for the game to end.
>"Why? Why does he have to die? This isn't worth it."
Nobody who actually played UT would be asking this because they already know why. Everyone who actually played the game knows what's at stake in this context, it's not a mystery or anything. I last played UT again in early 2022, and I have no issues remembering what happened. Not to mention the fact that UTY spends a pretty decent amount of time establishing the situation by itself, with Chujin's serum and the entire back half of the game's (pacifist) story being centered around the level of desperation some monsters have been driven to because of the barrier. The barrier is just as much of a factor in UTY's story as it is in UT, and Clover giving up their soul to eventually break the barrier one day is directly related, not some non sequitur like you're making it out to be.
>If anything, it doesn't lift itself up, but drag the pacifist ending down, by painting monsters as a people undeserving of freedom because of what they do to even the kindest people.
Yeah alright, that's a totally normal and logical conclusion to come to, sure.

>>3822149
What's the motivation behind this? Did you feel the world needed more Undertale gender mods?

>>3822151
>What's the troll here? I'm being completely genuine.
There is no possible way someone could be as fundamentally incapable of engaging with a fictional story as you are. Your points are illogical, use circular reason, and very plainly miss the point of not only UTY, but also the original UT.
Occam's Razor. The only real explanation for this profound retardation is that it's all a bit, since there can't possibly exist anyone so utterly braindead as to say these things with sincerity.
Again, I must congratulate you on all this, you really had me going there for a while. Killed the thread even.

>>3822155
well, people keep saying "people would think worse of alphys if they were a man"...

>>3822154
>Everyone who actually played the game knows what's at stake in this context, it's not a mystery or anything
They know what's at steak logically, but they don't feel it emotionally any more. They've already seen the monsters freed and had that nice cathartic good ending moment to justify everything they went through.

Stacking this extra suffering on top doesn't bring back the sweet taste of the good ending, it just adds bitterness.

>Clover giving up their soul to eventually break the barrier one day is directly related, not some non sequitur like you're making it out to be.
I'm not saying its a non sequitur, I'm saying it emotionally feels like one because any emotional impact of breaking it has long since faded. And replaying UT doesn't have the same impact after doing it over and over for ten years. So even if it is a logical justification, it doesn't feel like one.

>Yeah alright, that's a totally normal and logical conclusion to come to, sure.
Yeah, if someone hurts me I tend to want nothing but bad things for them. Since I'm the player and Clover is the player character, that means they drove my character to suicide at the end of the game, despite how good he had been to all of them. Sure I knew logically that the monsters had killed six other kids when playing UT, but I hadn't had that personally seen and experienced it. This makes it personal and makes me want to hate them.

>>3822156
What am I missing about the original Undertale?
>Killed the thread even.
Anon, these threads last for weeks even after hitting the bump limit.

Hi everyone
Last thread I floated the idea of an either a Chujin or Ceroba fight, which would take place in a Pacifist route but give Clover Genocide route stats for gameplay purposes. If I went through with it would you prefer thread updates or for me to just push changes to a public repository like GitHub?
Also, any preferences on my choice of platform? I could probably simplify a lot of things by using Java, though I have no experience using Java specifically as a game development language whereas I have prior experience with something like Raylib or SFML but I find working in C++ to be cumbersome.

what even happened to this thread lol
I look away for a day and suddenly we are at bump limit
wont have topics left for the weekend thread at this rate

Are the gay retards finished fighting

>>3822167
I said my peace and finally got into words my problem with UTY pacifist ending, so I don't think I'll need to discuss it ever again. At this point I think neither I nor he can add anything to the discussion.

So sure, I'm done.

>>3822163
>If I went through with it would you prefer thread updates or for me to just push changes to a public repository like GitHub?
Both is good

>>3822163
>If I went through with it would you prefer thread updates or for me to just push changes to a public repository like GitHub?
both are fine but I think people would be more interested in thread updates until the game is in an advanced state
>Also, any preferences on my choice of platform?
99% of people don't care about which code or game engine you use as long as they can play the game, use whatever you think will be better for the project

>>3822176
>until the game is in an advanced state
do you mean when the game is in an advanced state or until? just confused

>>3822166
>wont have topics left for the weekend thread at this rate
don't worry anon, there is still a topic when can use for the next thread which will give us plenty of discussion

>>3822166
It was only the one topic. Please don't make that one a hayden op. I don't want to have that discussion again.

>>3822178
>do you mean when the game is in an advanced state or until? just confused
once the game is in a playable state, that's what I meant

>>3822161
>They know what's at steak logically,
>at steak
Okay, to actually answer your question, the point of UTY as a whole is to show what it took to get the sweetness of the ending of UT in the first place, the trials and tribulations necessary, the cost if you will.
You said you weren't familiar with Halo: Reach, which is a shame because it's a really good comparison here.
Spoilers for a 15+ year old game ahead.

The ending of Halo: Reach is a good comparison because it's also a prequel with a sad ending. I won't go over the whole story, but at the end of the game, your character, Noble Six, delivers an important item to a ship called The Pillar of Autumn. The item they delivered, as well as the ship they delivered it to, are crucial plot elements from the first game, with the item having been an artificial intelligence without whom the Human-Covenant war likely wouldn't have been won without, and the ship being the human ship from the first game that much of the story centers around. After delivering the package, Noble Six is forced to man a M.A.C gun in order to defend The Pillar of Autumn from an incoming covenant ship, and after destroying the ship, the Autumn leaves without them, stranding them on Reach, which is now 100% occupied by Covenant forces. In the game's last level, Noble Six is outnumbered and killed in a desperate last stand in the inhospitable, glassed landscape of Reach.
The epilogue after this level takes place in the future, long after the war is over. Reach has green grass and blue skies again, life has returned to the planet, and Six's helmet is still lodged in the ground where they were killed. One of the characters from the game, Dr.Halsey, delivers a monologue about Six's sacrifice, and how they gave up everything so that humanity could have a fighting chance, and now the human race can rebuild from the ashes.
1/2

>>3822181
I'll take it. I need some levity after this.

>>3822161
Halo: Reach has a bitter ending. Every character in your squad dies, the planet you're fighting to defend is glassed, and then you die. It's a bitter ending.
But it's not *the* end. It's the last game Bungie ever made for the series, but the game that takes place next in the timeline? You get a victory. It's still not over, but it's a start, and that eventually lead to a true, final victory. That victory wouldn't have happened without the loss that came before.
That sweet future could never have been tasted were it not for the bitterness of the past.
That's the point of Undertale Yellow. It's a story of friendship, of love, of hate, of loss, and new opportunities. It's a story about the price that had to be paid in the past in order to secure a better future. *That's* the point.
You aren't supposed to feel like you just broke the barrier again, you're supposed to feel the sadness of knowing what breaking the barrier cost. The weight of those human souls.
That's why it wants to make you feel sad. You don't feel that for the human souls in the original, they're just kinda there. UTY gives you a glimpse at what they went through, the price *they* had to pay for *your* happy ending, an ending they would never see.
You want to know what Clover died for? They died for this.

Okay, I'm done for now. If you still can't see, it's whatever. Until we meet again pal.

>>3822112
add in DRY2's justice system for a bit of conflict
>cole can just outright see what crimes a darkner is guilty of
>by this point cole and kanako are used to imprisoning and killing darkners
>(C)* apprehend
>S: "what?"
>K: "... you guys dont apprehend darkners that have committed crimes?"
>R: "no, we just RECRUIT them!"
>kanako and cole stare at each other for a moment
>C: "so you two just have a bunch of darkners that have proven themselves to be dangerous running around your castle town"
>the fun gang pauses
>R: "a-ah. now that you put it like that..."
>S: "now hang on a moment! who the hell do you two think you are?"
>K: "two teenagers that have been through more dark worlds than you three."
>S: "... ok yeah. but that doesnt mean you can come to our town and tell us how to deal with our legend!"
>C: "what if a dangerous and volatile darkner decides to do something while you three aren't at the town?"
>S: "then we'll fix it when we get back!"
>K: "and what if the darkner kills someone!"
>S: "then we- wait ralsei can darkners do that?"
>R: "no susie. darkners dont have the strength to kill another darkner. only lightners do"
>S: "HAH!"
>K: "huh thats weird. they could over in the dark worlds where we live"
>R+S "WHAT???"

>>3822181
Maybe there'll be a new part of Haishin to inflict on people by the time the /v/ thread starts.

>>3822184
Fair enough anon. I think I just got too emotional back there.

I guess instead of saying its bad writing, I should've just said that I really disliked what they did, why they did it, wished they hadn't done it, and strongly advised anyone else against doing something like that in their UT fangame.

Sorry if I came across like a troll, I just got too caught up in the discussion. Got pretty mad. That's why I was making so many typos. I guess it was pretty silly of me to do that. I'm also not wearing my glasses, which doesn't help.

As for that explanation of Halo. For some reason it doesn't upset me like UTY did. Maybe its the series its in, or maybe its that they were a bunch of men who died fighting a valiant last stand, or maybe its because Clover is a kid who killed himself.

Fair enough if you think the UTY ending is alright, but something just feels wrong about it to me in a way that other tragic sacrifice endings don't. And this isn't a statement of fact, just my opinion.

As a side note, now that I've calmed down I find it pretty funny that I can get this invested in arguments over silly pixel furry rpgs. I guess the devs must have done something right.

>>3822182
You know, both times I made a Hayden joke for the thread header, the argument I made the joke about never really seemed to take off in the thread itself.
Anyway, don't worry, I have better ideas for a thread header, if I end up being the one to make it.

>>3822191
I think I see it now. I think I still disagree with the creative decision to make it. But I see it. And I admit it probably isn't bad writing. Fair enough.

I still don't know why Clover's death upsets me so much, but the Halo spartans' deaths don't.

>>3822194
>I guess instead of saying its bad writing, I should've just said that I really disliked what they did, why they did it, wished they hadn't done it, and strongly advised anyone else against doing something like that in their UT fangame.
Better. Unironically, this is better. I have no problem with you disliking the ending(s), I have plenty of bones to pick with them myself, I just think you were focusing too hard on the wrong areas to be frank. Like, the main cast just rolling over and letting Clover sacrifice themself with no apprehension at all? Stupid. Clover sacrificing themself in general? Fine, just needed to be reworked a bit.
>Sorry if I came across like a troll, I just got too caught up in the discussion. Got pretty mad. That's why I was making so many typos. I guess it was pretty silly of me to do that. I'm also not wearing my glasses, which doesn't help.
Don't sweat it, I was getting a little heated there myself, and for that I apologize.
>or maybe its because Clover is a kid who killed himself.
You probably could fix a decent chunk of this game's problems by making Clover a bit older actually. Maybe not necessarily a grizzled adult or anything, but them being as young as they are is a little weird for where the game ends up.
Then again, Toby Fox did at one point say all the fallen humans were children for whatever reason IIRC, so the devs really had no choice but to adhere to that for their purposes.
>Fair enough if you think the UTY ending is alright, but something just feels wrong about it to me in a way that other tragic sacrifice endings don't. And this isn't a statement of fact, just my opinion.
Also fair enough.
>I guess the devs must have done something right.
Yep. Even if we both have our own differing opinions on exactly what, neither of us would've cared so much if there wasn't something worth caring about here.

>>3822197
the spartans at least knew what they were getting into, clover just had a run of bad luck

>>3822199
Yeah, its probably just that its a kid, and that even if I logically should have seen it coming, the series has never been know to have a mandatory major main character death. Meanwhile Halo has guys dying in every scene. Death is cheap in action game, in Undertale it has weight.

>>3822197
Glad we could come to some kind of agreement, this was nice.
>I still don't know why Clover's death upsets me so much, but the Halo spartans' deaths don't.
You said you hadn't played Reach, so I'd say it might just be personal attachment at that rate. It's a good game, I'd recommend checking it out if you can get your hands on it somehow. Even now that I've explained the ending, you should still be able to enjoy it, since the game's marketing was largely advertised around the fact that basically everyone knew how it was going to end from the start. Not my personal favorite of the series, that'd probably be Halo 2 or 3, but it was relevant to this conversation, so meh.

>>3822171
>>3822176
I wonder if people would prefer me to just release the source code for them to compile on their own or for me to release compiled binaries? Never compiled anything cross-platform before

>>3822200
truth is... the game was rigged from the start

>>3822201
Well, the way the ending of Reach is set up is really meant to make you feel sorrow over the inevitable end of the stranded Spartans, with the helmet cracking and all that, and the remnants of the helmet in the final cutscene, etc.
But maybe for most people those Spartans never had the same attachment as Master Chief did

>>3822200
>Halo has guys dying in every scene. Death is cheap in action game, in Undertale it has weight.
That's actually not true, a lot of Halo's characters are there through the entire series. The standout named characters from Halo: Combat Evolved all mostly survive into the next games up to Halo 3, the end of the original trilogy.
As for how those characters fare in Halo 3 itself?
...I don't wanna talk about it.

>>3822201
Halo 3 was kino, in fact all the games that featured warthog runs were kino.

>>3822210
>all the games that featured warthog runs were kino.
So, two of them? Just the two?

Well, this was a fun time all around, can't wait for the weekend /v/ thread. In the meantime, I'm gonna get back to drawing Ceroba giving an anon a pawjob. Later sk8rs.

>>3822212
I couldn't remember if 2 featured one, but yeah, I quite liked both CE and 3.

>>3822209
sergeant Johnson dies three separate times, and Keyes gets absorbed, That only leaves John Halo himself and his ai waifu from the first game.

>>3822214
Halo 2 had a cut warthog run, but it didn't have one in the final game unfortunately. If you have The Master Chief Collection on PC, the mod Halo 2 Uncut restores the scrapped warthog run, among other things, like the flood juggernaut and various scrapped weapons and enemies.

>>3822215
>That only leaves John Halo himself and his ai waifu from the first game.
I can't believe you would forget about Dustin Echoes like that, unbelievable.

There are a few areas of how the pacifist writing is handled that I do think is shit. it depends on us taking the royal guard way more seriously than they should be taken, and ignoring the fact that there's really no rush for clover to sacrifice himself when they are still a soul away. we have to hand wave those things a little so that we can also forget that ceroba should be noticing the parallels between what clover is doing and what she let her own daughter do as a conclusion to her own story arc, and the others just giving in to how "determined clover looks" or however its worded is odd because I dont remember this being set up as an observation the characters had about clover unless I missed one of the room dialogues.

Personally I would want it to be where the true pacifist was an ambiguous "clover lives underground but for how long?" type of thing so that it could fit into canon or not. perhaps clover indeed eventually got got by the royal guard, or maybe when the 7th human fell he made good on his word and gave up his soul. it fits the "walk not the middle road" thing from that ruins puzzle, and you still have room for other endings like clover maybe giving up his soul after flawed pacifist feeling guilt over ceroba, sure it was justified but she was the first person he ever killed in that route so it could weigh heavily on him, and maybe having room for some of the neutral runs having a beatable asgore fight while others ending with flowey yoinking happiness away like he does, have it based on your lv with it being under so much then clover tries to go with martlet and over that amount then martlet isn't on the roof and flowey lets clover try to go to asgore, but make the fight harder than in undertale yet winnable.
at the end of everything though

>>3821874
>Basically, Clover saw the writing on the wall
and this is the part that kills me because clover being a child should have been stopped by the adults present from making a choice of that type for them.

>>3822220
and with this said I still love the game and even the ending for what it does right, but it absolutely asks of you to willingly ignore several lines of thought for everyones actions to make sense in the final stretch. I think it makes sense that one of the common starts to alternate ending fanfictions is "ceroba realizes at the last second this is exactly like kanako"

>>3822213
>I'm gonna get back to drawing Ceroba giving an anon a pawjob.

>>3822223
I may or may not put a catbox link to it in the /v/ thread, assuming there is one by the time I'm done.
I'm no sig, but I do what I can.

>>3822222
Well, the Shades of Justice version might do something for you then. It's somewhere up in the thread, I can't be bothered to grab it again.

>>3822225
i've seen their current rework of the pacifist ending and its already a huge improvement with them at least staying with clover at the end. I had forgotten about them just leaving him to die alone because a child said "Its all good!" of all of the things about the original ending, if you have to keep the sacrifice as it is, them sticking around makes a huge difference.

>>3822222
Holy fuck, quintuples.
I dunno if I've seen that for a while, damn.

>>3822228
my love of bird gave me this power.

>>3822218
Is he the guy that survives the flood only to get show by you?

>>3822231
Ah, don't worry about it...
Just dust and echoes...

>>3822222
YES FINALLY
HONEYDEW RESORT ART

>>3822198
>Clover sacrificing themself in general? Fine, just needed to be reworked a bit.
I probably could have accepted it too, given the proper framing.

>ending argument
It's been years since I've checked out Undertale AUs but in Storyshift, isn't Chara hidden from monster scrutiny just by wearing a hoodie (the equivalent of Sans in that universe)? I should check out that AU again since although most character-swap AUs are terrible I found that one compelling.
I think people really overestimate the difficulty of either hiding from monsters or getting a pardon from Asgore. Irl there was one Japanese soldier who hid on an island for decades, and he didn't have friends to help him. Suicide is the coward's way out in this scenario. It's not a matter of being disappointed in a sad ending since you have agency in the matter, and the canon ending of Undertale would have ended with living underground had Flowey not gotten involved.
It should be noted that this doesn't really affect canonicity. It doesn't matter if Clover is 8 or 80 when he dies, as long as the monsters get the soul. The only conflict with canon is that if he lives underground openly for decades, monsters will know about him and have a better opinion of humans when Frisk does fall down. This would be less of a problem if it was fallen human #3 or #4. But within the internal logic of UTY, there is no excuse and it doesn't need the massive chain of events that pacifist has in UT.
I like happy endings, I like bittersweet endings, and I even like tragic endings, but they all have to be done well and feel like they flow naturally from the story.

I just thought of a horrible idea, if the cyan soul, patience, is all about standing still and letting shit land on you, this is how one can create a fangame where Undertale can become a TRUE traditional JRPG. One that combines the turn based combat from SMT and Mario & Luigi and a bit of Etrian Odyssey (Specifically the rows) and shit is just pure god damn slop, somehow use your human talk-no-jutsu to patiently tard wrangle monsters into doing your bidding.

>>3822249
something something shades of justice ending earlier in this thread, please let me die already

>>3822253
I kind of poked at that above, to suit a fangame/fanfiction sometimes the royal guard are written as these crack commandos that are ON POINT when hunting down humans when most monsters actively stop giving a shit if you look at them the right way, and half of the royal guard will actively be cool with you if you pet them. Plus asgores whole "take as long as you need" thing in undertale to me makes me think "by all means if that as long as you need is forever then do that!". the reality of the undertale world would have left a lot of room for clover trying to stay with his friends in one of the endings. yes there is the flowey problem but flowey just randomly decides to let things be in the pacifist ending because "whatever" so we dont need a strong reason to justify "flowey just didn't fucking do anything this time I guess".

>>3822201
I think it might be who's dying and what they're dying in. Halo is badass space marines killing aliens, Undertale is the friendly rpg where no one has to die. I'm guess I'm just not ready to see the cute kid who like to play cowboy kill himself in front of his friends. I don't think its as much to do with attachment, since when I watch JoJo, it doesn't upset me that much to see Caesar or Johnathan die (it does upset me, but not yell at strangers on the internet upset).

I skipped Halo reach because of the art style. I thought they over detailed stuff and added too many greebles. I played 1 and most of ODST (that game is hard and my save corrupted)

>>3822253
>>3822258
I still think Clover living in the underground is nonviable for a few reasons, namely that while a lot of the guard is relatively amicable, we know for a fact that there are at least a few monsters in the underground other than Asgore capable of killing humans as evidenced by the locations of the fallen human's equipment, so I find it unlikely that Clover would be able to hide for a significant length of time before a particularly vindictive guard managed to catch and kill them.
Even operating against that idea and assuming that Undyne is the only guard in the underground worth a damn, I don't think hiding out in the dunes would be a surefire way to keep her at bay either. Sure, she gives up pursuing Frisk in hotland, but hotland is mostly composed of actual lava, whereas the dunes are mostly just kinda warm. I don't think Undyne would necessarily have as much of a problem tracking Clover into the dunes, and no one around would really be able to stop her from killing them due to how weak most characters in UTY are.
Ignoring the actual story, I think even in-universe it wouldn't make too much sense for Clover to survive very long in the underground if they chose not to give up their soul.

>>3822193
Smellowfags ran out of things to talk about so they only talk about autistic fetish comics and debate pointless subjects

Yellow could have been saved by a Japanese translation

>>3822267
Then we'd just get japanese fetish comics and debates.

What if there was a human tgat just blocked off the Underground entrance, not because they knew monster existed but because humans kept going missing. Have it be an old aunt who has basic common sense putting barbed wire around the mountain. Monster kind dies because a responsible adult.

>>3822268
I meant new fanart instead of pixel comic stuff

>>3822270
There's plenty of new fanart if you know where to look for it. Kinda just depends on what you wanna see, really.

>>3822261
>dunes are just kind of warm
the swelterstone killed the plant life. thats that good arizona/texas/mojave heat. undyne aint getting shit done in her armor there. and yeah you can write the idea that clover could get got by a particularly good royal guard but I mean monsters as a whole are almost all super quick to throw down arms and become friends across the board. Undyne is an anomaly in how much extra it takes to befriend her but 98 percent of all monsters you meet across the entire game are one maybe two sentences away from becoming your friend. I think this is why the idea of leaving it ambiguous works. leaves you room to suggest that maybe clover got found and taken down, or also room to imagine that things went a less canon route. have you ever been to a hot state in the summer? its fucking awful without a suit of armor on.

>>3822269
barbed wire is not going to stop autistic children like Clover or Val from entering the underground

>>3822273
Then have her guard with a chancla.

>>3822067
I feel that Cole would want to befriend Kris as the only other human, and even defend him from Susie's bullying, but Kris would resent him for that and play especially mean pranks as a means of discouraging him. In this situation Kris would look much less sympathetic. As for Susie, I don't know if a third party standing up to her would accelerate or hinder her character development.
>>3822192
Either Ralsei would be lying or those other dark worlds play by different rules. What would the explanation be?
>>3822258
Yeah I posted when it looked like the argument was petering out. I agree completely with you. Flowey is the wild card in this scenario and any reason why a happy ending doesn't exist should be due to him. Maybe despite everything he kills a monster and frames Clover so the monsters turn on him, and instead of hurting more monsters Clover gives himself up. It would also be a good tie-in with the motif of justice.
This idea seems so obvious to me now that I don't know why nobody thought of it sooner.

>>3822270
I have started trying to draw so that I can add to the pile. I know plenty of people start trying to learn and then quit but I hope I can have something to post before these threads stop getting made

>>3822272
>the swelterstone killed the plant life. thats that good arizona/texas/mojave heat.
Hotland is shown to be hot enough to evaporate water almost instantly, along with the cup it's in. That is probably hotter than the swelterstone makes things in the dunes.
And again, this is assuming that Undyne is the only monster in the underground worth worrying about, which can't really be the case given the information we have regarding the deaths of the other fallen humans.
We also know for a fact that there are monsters in the underground who want to kill you for reasons entirely unrelated to breaking the barrier, like how Mettaton wants to take Frisk's soul so he can cross the barrier by himself and become famous on the surface. Even *if* the royal guard isn't a concern, random hostile monsters that can't be talked down normally still could be a problem. Mettaton only stands down because you blow his arms and legs off and he runs out of power (and the call with napstablook yeah i know), he sure as hell didn't seem open to peace before that.
Basically, I give it like a week maximum before Clover would get killed in the underground if they decided not to give up their soul. There's just too much working against them here. Monsters are way stronger and smarter than most people give them credit for.

>>3822279
>but I hope I can have something to post before these threads stop getting made
you have infinite time then, these threads have bee going strong for a year and a half, and once any of the other fangames releases a demo they'll become more alive

>>3822256
Sorry anon, but I already know about shades of justice. I meant more drastic changes in framing.

>>3822283
Oh. I dunno, uhhhhhh...
Crack?

>>3822281
>which can't really be the case given the information we have regarding the deaths of the other fallen humans.
you can die to a froggit. many people DO die to froggits. you are amping things up when there's no justification
>like how Mettaton wants to take Frisk's soul so he can cross the barrier by himself and become famous on the surface.
mettaton is an outlier who does not chase after you himself, and all the mercenaries that get sent after you fold even easier to the guard against a warm smile. its fine if you want to head cannon monsters that will hunt you down but clover has already made friends with the monsters in the dunes.
also pour water on the ground in 120 degree weather. hotland may be a little hotter, but I assure you the type of heat that a place like the dunes would have would absolutely stop undyne before she reached wherever clover was since the dunes is a lot larger than the area undyne chases you through in hotland. you're welcome to headcanon that something would hunt down clover. we are having a head canon based discussion after all, but the number of monsters that cant be talked down that we have seen is in the single digits im pretty sure. like another anon said, when it was frisk, all it took was frisk being nice and half of monster kind jumped into asgores throne room on frisks behalf. most monsters are just built different

>>3822288
Counterpoint; shu would hunt down clover without mercy.

>>3822294
doesn't shus whole "origin" page say the idea was for him to be a competent protector for clover

>>3822045
>I'm not a sadist who wants to be more depressed.
Dont you mean a masochist? Because a sadist would want the other characters suffer more, while a masochist would be the one wanting to be more depressed

>>3822288
>you can die to a froggit. many people DO die to froggits. you are amping things up when there's no justification
You can find the previous fallen human's belongings all throughout the underground. It doesn't make any sense for them to all have been killed by Asgore, because it would be super out of character for him to have hunted them down like that (and also ooc for him to have just thrown away all their stuff like that if they somehow all made it to the castle), and it can't have been Undyne because we know she's never canonically encountered a human before the events of UT, so it makes way more sense for the other fallen humans to have been killed by stronger monsters. That's not a headcanon, that's the implication of the original game.
>mettaton is an outlier who does not chase after you himself, and all the mercenaries that get sent after you fold even easier to the guard against a warm smile.
Mettaton didn't chase after you himself because he was leading you to him, you were heading to him before his fight, he didn't need to chase you. We also know that his normal form is practically invincible and is capable of reducing you to 1 hp with a single attack during his quiz show encounter, so he could easily have killed Frisk on the spot if he wanted to, he actively chose not to until his final encounter.
>also pour water on the ground in 120 degree weather.
Dude, the fucking *cup* evaporates in Hotland. A styofoam cup turns into gas in Hotland. For reference, styrofoam, also known as polystyrene, evaporates at somewhere above 240 degrees celsius. Hotland is hotter than the dunes, end of story.
>the number of monsters that cant be talked down that we have seen is in the single digits im pretty sure.
Maybe that we see. I don't have an exact number off the top of my head, but some monsters that can't be talked down under *normal* conditions are the Mad Dummy, Mettaton, Undyne, and Asgore. There may be a few more, but I can't think of any at the moment.

>>3822295
Counterpoint; 4chan shu.

>>3822302
>You can find the previous fallen human's belongings all throughout the underground. It doesn't make any sense for them to all have been killed by Asgore, because it would be super out of character for him to have hunted them down like that (and also ooc for him to have just thrown away all their stuff like that if they somehow all made it to the castle), and it can't have been Undyne because we know she's never canonically encountered a human before the events of UT, so it makes way more sense for the other fallen humans to have been killed by stronger monsters. That's not a headcanon, that's the implication of the original game.
yes Im addressing that. you can die to a froggit without it being some crack commando hunting you down. a tsundereplane can run you down
>Dude, the fucking *cup* evaporates in Hotland
dont be a power scaler, your shoes would be melting in that temperature. tons of other things would happen in that temperature. 120 degrees would be enough to cook undyne in her armor and you've never been in a hot city if you say otherwise.
>mettaton
and yet he doesn't, under no circumstance does he ever do such a thing even in genocide which is quite interesting. regardless he is yet another case of someone who does not come hunt you down. we do not have any examples of monsters that would cross zones to hunt clover down yet. even undyne who chases you, is limited in how and where she will chase you or even engage in battle with you.
>that we see
so we have a vanishingly low number of monsters meeting the criterea of chasing you outside of their zone and cant be talked down. again you can fanfiction within reason that there could be a monster that would do it, but everything we have been shown is that the absolute vast majority of monsters would rather not fight someone thats willing to be nice to them even if they are being paid to do so.
>>3822303
4chan shu would try to protect the human like Mr. Satan would

>>3822302
Y'know what, I'm kinda curious now. If the local atmosphere of Hotland is hot enough to raise the temperature of a polystyrene cup to above 240 degrees celsius in about 1 second (because this happens over the course of a screen transition from the water cooler room to the next room), how hot does that make Hotland's air? I only vaguely remember the formula for figuring out this kind of temperature problem from my last chemistry class, and I don't know the specific heat capacity of styofoam off the top of my head either.

>>3822149
Still looks too feminine, also did u change the phonecall dialogues to match male alphys's he/him pronouns or voice bleps to be deeper

>>3822281
Clover has some pretty strong monster friends though. Surely that has to count for something. Say he hides out in the Ketsukane estate under the protection of Ceroba and Axis, or hides out in the Steamworks. And he has an inside man (woman) in the guard to help him out too.

>>3822067
Ironically enough, Kris could've became friends with Kanako and even Roba if he wasn't in his empty shell state. Then there's Roba and Susie - them both being retarded and short-tempered would make for an interesting meeting of the minds. Either they immediately lock horns, or they would feel kinship - no inbetween.

>>3822284
>Clover gains the power to defeat Asgore by taking crack
genius

>>3822302
lets not forget the puddle that doesn't instantly evaporate or the tree that grows or that undyne would have burned her face horribly laying on the ground.

>>3822305
>dont be a power scaler, your shoes would be melting in that temperature. tons of other things would happen in that temperature. 120 degrees would be enough to cook undyne in her armor and you've never been in a hot city if you say otherwise.
Yes, I know what 120 degrees feels like, but we don't actually know if that's the actual average temperature of the dunes anyway. Really, the large swelterstone doesn't actually make sense from a physical perspective, since if it's hot enough to glass the entire region and kill off all the plant life, shouldn't it also be creating a constantly expanding heat volume within the underground due to the fact that it apparently generates infinite heat?
Also, you know Undyne can take her armor off right?
>yes Im addressing that. you can die to a froggit without it being some crack commando hunting you down. a tsundereplane can run you down
Yeah, if each of the other fallen humans potentially got bodied by random jobbers, I feel like Clover probably wouldn't fare too much better when it comes to surviving either, especially since Flowey wouldn't be helping them if they weren't planning on heading to Asgore anymore.