Thread 3825925

I’m wondering what RPG you think has the best story of all time. The picture I posted is kinda related, it’s a great story but maybe not the best. For me what makes a truly great RPG story is that it has more than just a good plot. It needs strong character development and romance if it fits the theme, choices that feel meaningful, a world that feels alive, and themes that stay with you long after you finish and leave you feeling empty and sad that its over like finishing a good book. What do you think is the greatest RPG story ever told?

>>3825925 (OP)
FF 7 or 10

Golden Sun and Digimon world do it for me.

>>3825932
Holy shit i forgot about Golden sun I should really replay it

>>3825925 (OP)
Mother 3, PoE1 & 2, or FF6 probably fit your bill the best. 7 and 10 were anime feces. BG2 is a great game but doesn't really have a lot to say about the human condition and characters are very limited in their development. Earthbound doesn't really have character development or deep plot. NWN2 is a great game but doesn't have a deep plot even though your companions do develop a lot as personalities.

Mother 3 has character development for your companions but is also a profoundly sentimental exploration about what it means to grow up and encounter a weird world while trying to develop your sense of self, including your sexuality. The plot is fascinating in its sensitivity but also it involves intensely profound moments relevant to life and the human condition generally.

PoE 1 & 2 have well fleshed out companions who are reasonably interactive and their stories develop their outlook and inner conflicts well. The overall plots are great in structure and are about themes of what might be the purpose of religion for humanity. How is / should society be structured and guided? What are the consequences of minds being malleable or transferrable (definitely inviting transhumanist sci-fi explorations)? What does it mean to love someone when who they are can be altered by external things beyond your control?

FF6 is babby's first epic, with all the bells and whistles. The plot is not difficult to follow. It's about the confrontation between the negative nihilistic response and constructing meaning and purpose in life on the premise of choosing to love and be loved. The characters are clear and concise in terms of what they're about. They don't really interact much, but you see their stories play out and it's fairly satisfying. The main downside is that it's a Final Fantasy game, so it's extremely anime-styled. So it's suitable for children, especially those without healthy socialization.

>>3825937
Do I need to play the other 2 Earthbound games to get Mother 3?

>>3825943
it's strongly recommended. they're both great games that you should play anyway tho.
if you do play m1, make sure you get plenty of use out of your buff/debuff/PP-absorb spells.

>>3825937
>best stories of all
>Pillars 1 and 2
sigh

>>3825937
9/10 bait

>>3825925 (OP)
Betrayal at Krondor

>>3825925 (OP)
For me it was indeed Witcher 3. I don't think anything else even comes close. It's even a bit upsetting that it set the bar so high because Witcher 4 really has no hope of matching it.

For me, it's Pokemon RBY. Boy sets out into the big world with nothing but a gifted level 5 and becomes the very best like no one ever was through nothing but hard work, determination and love for his Pokemon.

VtM:R
FF10
Prey

It's pretty obvious that Rance has the best story. The only thing that would compete is Trails and I didn't enjoy those enough to get through more than one so can't give an opinion.

>>3826002
1st Gen Pokemon is definitely up there.

>>3826002
Zoomers hate on GBY so being super buggy. I hate that

>>3825925 (OP)
FF7

>>3825937
>FF6/7/10 are anime feces
There is anime BS as well in Mother 3, EB/M2 is more original

>>3826002
>>3826040
>genwunners get BTFO'd by /vp/ and /vr/ so they are now in /vrpg/

>>3825925 (OP)
Pranu Skapu Toroman-to des

This thread genuinely feels like AI posters trained on reddit. Where the fuck am I that people are genuinely saying a game to sell children's toys like pokemon that has almost no characters has the greatest story?

To answer the question its probably Ultima 4 or Drakengard since they use the gameplay to reinforce the narrative themes so expertly.

>>3826164
I don't think any LLM would be even recommending Pokemon if we are talking about stories.

>>3825929
Too convoluted and the others too 2000s melancholic

>>3826164
Honesty I’m still new to RPG so I’m gonna just go and say something like Earthbound.

It’s weird and fun, and I kinda like the fact porky is just a dick

only one i can think of is yakuza 0 (only yakuza i played so far) , so story/cutscenes were so good i was looking forward to them , and i normally skip all stuff like that

>>3825925 (OP)
Baldurs Gate 1. Simple, but good without any bullshit.

>>3826002
It has a cool setting and a background plot that does the job but there isn't really any driving story beyond your own. Games like that can't even participate in a "best story" thread

>>3826227
>It has a cool setting and a background plot that does the job but there isn't really any driving story beyond your own.
The best kind of story

If you played it as a lil kid, like I did, that is.

>>3826164
>its probably Ultima 4 or Drakengard since they use the gameplay to reinforce the narrative themes so expertly.
A pseud gives his answer after seething at an idiot

>>3826227
I knew one of you fuckers would pop up.
>it isn't a *real* story unless a writer writes it
That's the gayest shit I've ever heard.

>>3825925 (OP)
out of the ones i played, planescape torment was the best

Mass effect

>>3826489
A touching tale of a human white male sowing his seed across the galaxy

>>3825958
>>3825957
If I said feces tastes like shit, you'd pop up to roll your eyes and snobbishly imply that I just don't know anything about good cuisine.
Meanwhile you just told everyone you love the taste of shit.

>>3826319
Thanks for your contribution to the thread. Great insight.

the best writing I think is Planescape Torment

for story I think its FF8 or FF14

>>3825925 (OP)
>open thread
>everyone saying FF7
I adore /vr/, it's so patrician and high IQ compared to other boards. The SKG edrama made me leave /v/ for good.

>>3826995
>comes in
>immediately shit talking
Okay drama queen, don't bring that shit here. This is /vrpg/ btw

>>3825925 (OP)
No video game has ever had any overly spectacular story. Some have had good concepts and ideas. But due to the medium, the people involved and the structure of game development the execution is never and can never be spectacular.
Indie devs can't write for shit. Triple A's don't care to have good writers or will neuter and handicap them. Then as soon as the story is to be implemented the entire lattice of the game itself will distort and mongrelize the story to something very unspectacular.
>muh mother
>muh earthbound
People citing those are turds unflushed. Flush for God's sake, flush

>>3826510
>don't believe Pillars 1 and 2 are the best examples of writing in all of video games
>UHHH YOU LIKE THE TASTE OF SHIT
????????????????????????????????? holy newfag nigger take your word salad shitposting elsewhere

>>3826999
>actually nothing's good
Quite the conversationalist

FF8 is the best story I can think of, which feels a bit muck to say, but I really can't think of much better.

>>3825925 (OP)
Chained Echoes

Dysco Elysium if that counts as an RPG

>>3827027
>vn
No

>>3825925 (OP)
I don't have best, but I have a top list of equals:
>Pillars of Eternity 1
>Witcher 2
>Dragon Age Origins
>Tyranny
>Disco Elysium

I'd say Pillars is probably the best. Tyranny and Witcher 2 are too jank, Disco is too nieche, Dragon Age just a bit too cliche. Pillars 1 is ultimately vidya-RPGs at their peak with how masterfully it ties all of its themes together while feeling distinct and unique.

>>3826489
Lowbrow Dragon Age Origins

>>3827168
Btw, when I call Dragon Age cliche I mean in the context of Fantasy as a whole, which includes stuff like the Wheel of Time, Witcher and good ol Tolkien. In context of Faerune slop that WRPGs are stained in, its another shining beacon of uniqueness.

>>3827173
>Wheel of Time
Well made world, but atrociously hollow besides the fact that's well crafted.

>>3825937
>>3826510
Not them, but how do you consider 2 a good story? 1 was at least interesting with seeing your past memories and becoming a watcher and all that shit. 2 is literally just you following Eothas and nothing happening.

What do you guys think about the Pathfinder series?

>>3827323
story-wise?
peak redditterino-core

Honestly a hard question because i keep losing intrest midway into almost every RPG i play. Ignoring that i recommend:
>Underrail
>Deus Ex
>Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
>Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous (only if you can ignore all the tranny and nigger shit)

>>3825925 (OP)
For me it's Black Souls. Checks every box you mentioned, unless you take "alive" literally.

>>3825925 (OP)
DAO

>>3827168
Is tyranny goes any better? Like i finished prologue locations few times but next town and i just burnt out and got too bored to finish.

>>3827168
When DAO came out it forced me to put all nighters just because i want to know whats next in the story.

I mean yeah its not completely original but it was extremely good story.

>>3827605
>DAO
Gets a vote from me too. Probably my favorite story in a western RPG.

>>3827464
good list honestly.
And i + to taht losing interest too. I feel like modern RPGs have too much writing. like take Pillars there is so much pointless shit like reading previous lifes of random NPCs etc. Its just too tiresome.

I'm not a jrpg guy but out of the ones I've played lately, I really liked SaGa Frontier 2's especially Gustave's political intrigue

>>3827446
WOTR wasn't that bad. Had a bunch of gay companions, but basically being a god and killing other gods was pretty fun. Especially going to hell and bitch slapping demons.

>>3827016
It is unfortunate that you are retarded, it stifles your ambition and leaves you laughable instead.
We're talking about spectacular stories. Games are a lens through which stories come out a blur. The best games are enjoyed for everything except their story

>>3827957
>The best games are enjoyed for everything except their story
Nta, but like what? That's a bold claim. Why don't you give us several examples.

>>3827957
>I enjoy games for everything except their story
Fixed

Changelog
- removed all the sperg stuff

>>3827957
What are you talking about? There are many people, myself included who only find games fun if they have a good story. If the story isn't good there is no point in playing ROLLSLOP 3, or ACTION RPG 5 or even JRPG 4990 because they all use the same game play loop. I think it says a lot about our society when people are reading less books and only wanting to play the same game but with a different fucking coat of paint. Look at KOTOR 1&2, gameplay is janky as fuck but it's some of the best RPG's ever made.

Why? Because the story. I swear that Tiktok and short form content has killed the brain cells of millions of people. I read a lot of novels, is it wrong for me to want a high quality story in my video games? like come on

PST, MotB
this thread is fucking cringe

The Legend of Heroes: Trials of Cold Steel IV (True Ending), Xenoblade Chronicles, YS VIII: Lacrimosa of DANA, Metaphor ReFantazio

>>3825964
If you seriously think Witcher 3 should be considered a great story, you've never read a book.

>>3828714
It hits different when you’re a dad

Xenosaga did it for me

>>3827027
I love CE but it's not really that masterpiece of a story, although it's ahead of every indie throwback JRPGs (not the RPG maker ones) released recently, including shit like Octoslop

>>3828714
>If you seriously think Witcher 3 should be considered a great story, you've never read a book.
Uh what book makes you not enjoy stories?

>>3828714
The Witcher games are unironically better written than the Witcher books.

>>3825925 (OP)
>witcher1,2 and 3
great stories, but "small sized" and mainly focused on character drama, actually 1st witcher is the only one which has what I would consider an rpg story cos it deals with major power and world-ending threat. you can argue that space elves from 3 are that but they dont feel that way.
>bg3
pretty simplistic story written incredibly well using strongest aspects of dgd
>fallout2
unexpected ending to 1st fallout and a great story as well as world building
>vegas
most reactive story in gaming true to og fallout canons
>morrowind
completely crazy worldbuilding which werent surpassed since
>borderlands2
incredible villian and overall good story progression
>kotor2
incredible twist on childish star wars good-bad premise

>>3826489
>rgb ending
>good story
you cannot be fucking serious

>>3827323
one of few rpgs I have quited half way when I saw working 70s-80s computers in a bunker without faction posessing them conquering everything or industrializing the world. world building makes no fucking sense whatsoever. I cannot put in words how wrong and stupud such thing is. especially when there were games which did advanced tech in fantasy world semi-passable such as might and magic and age of decadence.

>>3825925 (OP)

Probably Valkyrie Profile or Tactics Ogre albeit Ni no Kuni also had a great story. I also like the Nier games, the original KH and FF IX very much.

arcanum
halfling jew quest alone dwarfs other rpgs

>>3829600
Checked. It's pretty ballsy for sure.

>>3829600
If arcanum actually felt good to play, I'd actually finish it someday

had shat on witcher 3 like decade but honestly? it's easily top 10 of best story driven rpg

>>3825925 (OP)
The overarching plot from MM1-8

>>3829581
>>borderlands2
>incredible villian
Now that you mention it, I played 1 and 2 with a friend, and I remember hating the villain. Playing the first game helped make the particular scene impactful.
Rarely happens, so I gotta say BL pulled it off.

>>3829651
Having never played 1, I was hooked on jack as a villain from the moment he bought a diamond unicorn. He was unhinged, well written and seemsed surprisingly approachable in the sense that I would get logical interactions. And by logical interactions I mean the bad guys ego is so big he perceives you as a toy.
The pre-sequel only served to round out his character. Unfortunately, the telltale series brought him down a few notches. I'm just glad the writers of BL3 never tried to bring him back, but BL4 is happening...

What about Cyberpunk 2077? It's got a very fleshed out world in b4 "ITS NOT AN RPG"

>>3825925 (OP)
Breath of Fire 4.
It was a wild ride.

>>3826319
my thoughts similarly

>>3829765
>What about Cyberpunk 2077?
sloppa
>It's got a very fleshed out world
I didnt feel that anything about it being fleshed out, it felt very cheap and genetic wwith most things left out.

the only good thing I can say about it is that artstyle waas very throught and well-done, but its all style over substance.

>>3825925 (OP)
For me, its Ghost of Tsushima.

50% of the game may be formulaic generated slop quests, but the story is really why I still think back fondly on it from time to time.

>>3825925 (OP)
For me?
Unironically Chrono Cross until the end of the Lynx arc,
Then it turns into unsalvageable dogshit.
It might not be great for everyone but I love its themes

All games have shit stories when you compare them to actual good stories from other media.

>>3830628
You're just bat at roleplaying your role in the story

>>3830628
thats not true, other media also sucks

>>3827957
>>3828189
The eternal story vs. gameplayfag debate.

Personally by now I am also on the gameplayfag side, simply because I have played, watched and read so many games, movies and books, that almost no story ever seems new or exciting.
Add to that, that I am somewhat of a power gamer and the story at best quickly becomes a joke, or at worst becomes a nuisance that stops me from exploring.
I was raging hard when kingdom cum was pestering me with the whole mandatory 2 or 3 hour tutorial and bullshit and all of that for nothing special of a story.

On the other hand, when I was a kid, I greatly enjoyed even the most ordinary, cheesy, simple stories in games. I cried in Secret of Mana when they banned me from the starter village that I knew for less than an hour.

The last stories I enjoyed where The Expanse and Master of Gu, none of which are doable in a game without taking all the suspense.

>>3831421
this is most braindead pseudointellectual take I have read in a long time.
Its not OR its give me BOTH
I want good game and good story, simple as
also you are full of shit, most siplistic and cliche story can be executed well with lots of good writing like bg3. its not problem of the stories being predictable cliche. its porblem of bad writing not spicing stories with enough plot-twists, backhand tricks, reveals and more.
I would again bring arcanum. You wake up after zep crush and theres a guy which calles you are a chosen one. By the looks of its most mundane predictable shit you can ever think of. However it only seems that way because its all absolute bs.

>>3831515
In an ideal world, obviously both would be great.
In reality, arcanum already looked and played like shit at release, while we had full 3d ARPGs with way more action and interactivity at that time.

No matter how good a story for a game is, if the gameplay sucks, I won't enjoy it. For example BG3 or Arcanum. Wouldn't touch those with a 10 foot pole.

On the other hand, no matter how bad or non existent a story (and everything else) is, if the gameplay is good, I enjoy the game.
For example Dark Souls or Zelda. Of course I would love a game like that with a good story, but I don't see that happening ever.

One more thing, when I refer to story, it's not just about the plot, but also about the dialogues, setting, characters, world design, quests, interactivity etc.
Most of all, a video game is about interactivity, but also reactivity. I want to be able to make choices and not be railroaded to exactly one path, but the world also needs to react to those choices with more than a text message and no actual changes or a slightly different ending.

>>3829555
Never said the Witcher books are good. They're actually really shitty.
I'm just saying that if you think Witcher 3 is a great story you're not someone that reads books.

>>3829765
Cyberpunk 2077 felt like someone just fed the most popular cyberpunk stories into an AI and told it to turn that into a video game plot.
It's really bad.

>>3825925 (OP)
Mass Effect 1. 2 and 3 to a lesser extent. I didn't mind the three-colors for endings shit, though it could've been better, it was more about the journey for me.

Dragon Age origins ranks up there if I'm feeling more in a fantasy mood.

SWtOR's class storylines if MMOs are included, particularly the Sith Warrior class story for me. I wish they'd release the old vanilla experience as a single player RPG.

>>3829765
Its okay, not the best. The DLC's writing takes a nosedive, too.

>>3825925 (OP)
Based on what i played its Witcher 3 DLCs and Cyberpunk.

I played Planescape but didn't complete it, heard its story is amazing, but game was boring so i didn't finish it.

Disco Elysium is overrated, its written well i guess and the worldbuilding is neat despite being a knockoff EE post ww2 which is like yeah whatever, but the STORY wasn't good, most of the time is you wandering around aimlessly having reddit political debates with characters and talking to yourself about some retard hallucination bullshit that doesnt matter to the story, the ending was shit to and came out of nowhere, there is a lot of plot armor as well.

Mass Effect could've been up there but the ending was bad, the 2nd game is more about the cast than the story.

Dragon Age story is solid but its a little bit too generic and the presentation is worse than CDPR

Story in Larian games is like miniscule and is never taken too seriously, so its out.

Fallout story is very simple and what they focus on is the side quests and how you interact with factions.

BG2 story is generic high school fantasy not that good imo

Souls is lore and the story is always the same.

Final Fantasy has some good stories.
X is good
7 is good
But i think they are not as well written or presented or even as mature as CDPR games
They are definitely the closest though.

VTMB is good but the ending is shit and the writing starts to go from good to edge cringeshit made by someone 16 years old

Owlcat games waste time of generic garbage instead of trying to go for something of value and something serious, its all hurr durr demons end of the world

Elder Scrolls has fun lore but the story is too simple
Chrono Trigger is time travel bullshit and contradicts itself, its also too simple and characters are shallow

Tactics Ogre is solid but waste too much time and the pacing is shit and it lacks a lot of context and depth

Honestly few devs can write, even fewer in RPG genre. most good stories are not from RPGs

>>3831678
Oh yeah KOTOR is also good.

So

Witcher 3 DLCs
Cyberpunk 2077
KOTOR 1 & KOTOR 2
--- Gap ---
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy 7
--- Gap ---
Shadowrun Dragonfall
The Witcher 1 & The Witcher 2
--- Gap ---
Dragon Age Origins
Metaphor Refantazio

Thats all

>>3825925 (OP)
I tought I'd see more of Planescape Torment in this thread desu.

>>3831860
It’s been mentioned multiple times, but my personal favorite was
>>3831678
>I played Planescape but didn't complete it, heard its story is amazing

>>3830626
Good choice.

What is good about Planescape Torment's story? I haven't played it.

>>3831640
>this game has a shit story compared to books, go read some
>no, not those, they're shit too
fuck off retard

>>3831594
bg3 gameplay is top notch
you just want action games, not tactical games
again, its subjective problem

>>3831642
hook is very good but after that story goes straight up into the shitter

>>3831678
pretty good summary

>>3831860
I fell like planescape is too dated and more of a vn
>>3831938
good companions, good writing, good dialogue. story is about pc being a main villian running from himself and being forced to accept the consequences, I dont think it stands test of time, especially with how much people tried to replicate it, but personal conflict opposed to LE EVIL BAD WANTS TO DESTROY was great for a time.

>>3831970
Also the writing feels smooth and natural, you want to read what npc's have to say. It's really different from the PoE era games where the studio was proud to announce the game will have tens of thousands of words and feel extremely bloated.

>>3831938
It really updated my journal.

OP here, the future of stories in games is looking bleak, I'm a writer, I read a lot, and have worked as a writer for non gaming companies. How would one get into a writing job in games? Also how do you pitch a story idea to a game studio? I feel like if i went there, got a job, I would have some pink hair tranny telling me what I can and can't write.

>>3827219
>he never replied

What a horrible fucking thread.
As expected of a shitty 4chins board.

>>3825925 (OP)
Planescape: Torment
PoE 1
Disco Elysium
The worldbuilding of Torment: Tides of Numenera was done by a schizo and i liked it

>>3825925 (OP)
i think it's FFX, isekai is a great trope when done well and this one does it well; and then having the additional twist of there being no way back, in fact the "home" world is the dream, and you must destroy it all - very good with strong payoff on repeat plays

>>3834891
>I feel like if i went there, got a job, I would have some pink hair tranny telling me what I can and can't write.
How is that different from any other industry? If it isn't a tranny, then it's gonna be a woman or a brown. No matter what you do, it all depends on the company/business you work for/with.

>>3825960
Holy BASED

>>3825925 (OP)
There is only one answer anon

>>3831938
It's full of torment

PS4 for me

>>3830628
True. Why the fuck can't video games hire a decent writer for once?

>>3826077
I fucking hate children. I hate that you exist and I hate that you're allowed on here. Die.

>>3827219
I mean, if you literally read a single word while playing the game on mute. Maybe. Kind of hard to miss the cut scenes, though. So you'd have to play it blind and deaf to miss the plot and all the stuff that happens.
>>3834897
I didn't deem it worthy of acknowledging with a reply, but apparently there really is always one fucking imbecile who needs basic shit explained. So there you go. Put your finger on the screen and let us know if you need any of the big words broken down for ya.

>>3839538
It's so '90s anime, it physically HURTS to even just look at.

>>3829810
I like cyberpunk but you're always so insanely overpowered that you never feel caught in the dystopian struggle of the world

>>3825937

>PoE1 Ending: "What if all the gods were fake?!?! Its LE ATHEISM BRO!!! XDD"

Reddit take lmao

>>3842865
poe is a terrible game anyway becaise its all
>souls souls souls souls
its just stupid

>>3827464
I like your list, but I'm confused why you went with Bloodlines over Redemption. Bloodlines was a superior game, no question, but this is about which has a better story. And Redemption's story was miles and miles better than Bloodlines.

did anyone ever give a fuck about the story in diablo\poe?

>ctrl+f "Xenogears"
>0 results
Now, I'm not saying it's the best, both because that kind of question doesn't really make sense and because it has pacing and presentation issues in disc 2 and all that. But if that game doesn't deserve a spot in the top 5, I don't know what does. Obviously I'm not just talking about the script, because the script is often more functional to the plot than poetic like a book, but the overall experience.

>>3825925 (OP)
Weird but honest answer: Kenshi. A game that doesn't even have an ending.
For me, a good ending to a story is half made by my own RP.
If a game inspires immersion and RP and doesn't turn into a total bullshit, the ending will be good. If not, I may not even remember playing it.
Skyrim, for example, is a typical heroic fantasy with a tabula rasa MC who is not even given a chance to show personality. But if your autism kicks in, it's a good sandbox for RP and a huge world to write your characters in.
As for Kenshi, it was about a dozen homemade dialogue mods to RP my character and his companions. Some personal quests (the game has no quests), some personal goals, character traits that created problems, a grand quest to find the truth about the world (as much as the lore allows), backstories, world state reactions... And a no reload rule on top of that. Great time.
I can also remember Enderal, but it's more about the journey than the ending itself (can't really be separated). I started with very low expectations because it's a mod, but it's a good one. I haven't played the latest update though, so I'm not sure if it's up to par.

>>3843526
Even just the term itself, "quest", is a neologism and it describes a made-up game-ist concept. Believe it or not, games didn't used to have a "quest journal". You were supposed to just... remember what you wanted to do and think about how you wanted to get that done.

toss up between Witcher 3 and DAO

>>3843734
>Even just the term itself, "quest", is a neologism and it describes a made-up game-ist concept.

>>3841390
It wasn't until I played FF7 as an adult that I decided it was one of the best videogame stories of all time.
Not that the bar is very high. Most videogame stories are complete garbage.
>>3843328
XG is underrated, not just because its pacing is bad but also because it's pretentious. People latch on to one of the valid criticisms and their brain shuts down. They stop evaluating anything else.
Xenogears has great character writing. The philosophical+psychological themes are pretentious, but the consequence of the psych obsession is that the characters have personalities and interactions that are, on average, more interesting than standard videogame slop.

>>3842865
Reddit believes in monotheistic deism, newfag.

>>3841369
>>3834891
There's a fundamental problem with videogame writing which is that videogames are massive projects and even though games are crammed full of cutscenes, the writing isn't a priority. Writing is not only constrained by budgets and raw execution difficulties, but integration and coordination with all the other disparate elements of the game. There are so many creative conflicts in a videogame that it's very hard for even a "good writer" to provide a good story.

And that's before you consider that what makes a good story for a videogame isn't always the same as what makes a good novel or movie. Players have agency in a game. They resolve conflict through gameplay. Play leads to emergent narratives. Traditional writing, where the author has full control of story, plot, characters, conflict, pacing, frequently conflicts with basic game design principles. Storyteller freedom is restricted by player agency in a way that is not for other forms.

If you want a videogame with a good story it needs to be a very small team.

>>3844067
I don’t really see it as pretentious, but I’m glad you appreciate the characters. What makes you think it comes across that way?

>>3844073
You have to lean on the characters. Writing strong ensouled characters who the players interact and connect with is 90% of the art. The players control the narrative plot. The writer controls the characters of the world.

>>3825925 (OP)
>I’m wondering what RPG you think has the best story of all time.
of the games I have played, I think probably ff9

>>3844073
What you are describing are problems with production, as in directors of the project having no fucking vision and not having a slightest idea how to fit story into their game, how to pace and design game and integrate it synergistically with a stroy.
Size of a team is not the case. What you need is a team which works well, experiences and etc because all that shit is hard to pull as you have noted. I will bring bg3 as an example. It had lots of writers and from what Sven the guy which made game told in interviews he followed logic of building good team of developers instead of cutting corners and chasing cheapest labor with constant flow of people leading to zero growth and lack of retention of design knowledge. And I think story and gameplay in bg3 are very well integrated. I can write passages about parasite skills alone (even tho they are a wasted opportunity which doesnt lead you anywhere and mostly are cosmetical rp tool). but oh boy do they look good. just by opening menu and seeing parasites dropping into brain you feel disgust and doing something both evil and forbidden. and thats exactly what it is at the end. power which comes at great cost and kills humanity itself. thats masterful integration into the story. and it goes even further because being corrupted gives you power in a gameplay terms. you get incredibly strong abiltes. so you have incentives to get corrupted.
and then compare this shit to something like mindchip relic in cp2077. you instantly see stark contrast. and why is that? because large number of people who made witcher3 left cdpr between then and cp2077 release and in general game been in perma production hell and 20 different itterations (maybe even more) which speaks for inability of directors to nail vision and story. and in general you can see it by how undercooked game is. I have never seen more wasted potential than cp2077, makes me very sad even thinking about it.

>>3843328
it was boring.

Secret of Mana

>>3845564
>I will bring bg3 as an example. It had lots of writers and from what Sven the guy which made game told in interviews he followed logic of building good team of developers instead of cutting corners and chasing cheapest labor with constant flow of people leading to zero growth and lack of retention of design knowledge.
Did we play the same game? The plot and characters were terrible, specifically because they had so many writers, and churn among their writers. They had like three or four waves of writers go back and rewrite shit and undo what each other had done, until it was like a garbage soup of design by committee.
>doing something both evil and forbidden. and thats exactly what it is at the end. power which comes at great cost and kills humanity itself. thats masterful integration into the story.
But theres no integration into the story at all. The game doesn’t even recognize or notice if you abstain from tadpolemaxxing for the whole game, the devs just assumed that you’d want to do this totally cool thing with zero downsides, because that’s what they’d do so obviously that’s what you’d do, right? They even force someone to be a mindflayer for the endgame, because of course.
ironically it’s the same with Cyberpunk and its cyberware, the game doesn’t even notice if you reject it and don’t use it, there’s no reason to not go full chrome and the devs just assume you will because why not.

I don't think they are the best, but I would just throw pokemon gen5,7 and 9 here. I feel like these have great stories and are severly underlooked because muh pokemon
>5 is about teenager finding their way in the world (not muh pokemon evil bullshit), it's all about a coming of age story
>7 has not a big motive, but is still a fun story with a lots of characters. (usum ruins the story a little bit, but is still fun to play)
>9 is about bullying and finding friends.

Warcraft 3, by a long shot.

The story ( multiple branching interlaced stories, actualy) is mature and well thought out from start to finish. The writing and dialogue are phenomenal, at least by vidia standards. The excellent voicework does carry a lot of the heavyweight tho.

>>3825925 (OP)
This is an unpopular opinion but I find openworld games and games with multi-choice dialogue almost always drop the ball with story.

Multi-choice is basically anti-quality story-wise as no studio has the funding and talent necessary to actually give real divergence. The more choices they give, the less meaning the choices tend to have, until eventually it just slightly changes the dialogue for one npc line then it continues on the same path of any of the choices. Even having only two choices for every interaction (bad guy or good guy) has developers struggling incredibly hard to make both sides relevant. Basically always having good guy be the main story while bad guy just letting you see what being an ass in a normal story is like.

Open world ruins storylines due to giving them bad pacing issues. Makes tension, urgency, and even emotional connection get watered down.
eg:
>"OMG x town is going to be attacked! we have to go save them!"
>proceeds to spend the next 20 hours running around picking herbs, doing inane fetch quests like finding 5 ore for the blacksmith, climbing a mountain to see whats there only to run into a invisible wall or a locked door for a quest later etc.
>eventually accidently walk into main quest town
>it is coincidentally only getting attacked when you enter even though you have seen it burning from a distance for a couple weeks in-game time
>"Oh hero, I knew you loved me, rescuing me so quickly!"
> bitch, who are you??
Its goofy as hell.

The only time I have seen open world story done in a way that isn't a detriment to its story telling is the souls games. As these games have a story thread built like a jigsaw puzzle that you can put together as you wish without any real time constraints narrative wise. It is supposed to be a long gruelling journey in a place difficult to navigate.

I don't think there is any game that hasn't suffered from multi-choice in some way.

>>3826372
But it isn't a story. It's roleplaying in your imagination. That would only become a story if you personally wrote out what you imagined was happening. Unless you are trying to take the philosophical route of saying anything someone experiences is a story. Then this thread would no longer be about the "best story" but instead whatever game you had the most fun playing.

>>3843734
>neologism
>a word that's probably older than the country you reside in
lel

>>3846715
I see you haven't played The Age of Decadence.

>>3825925 (OP)

A difficult question though it´s probably still either Valkyrie Profile or Tactics Ogre. There are plenty enough RPGs with good stories out there to make a top 10 though.

>>3831006
This, whenever I read a book or watch a movie that people tell me are so amazing I'm always disappointed.

>>3842922
What story? Demons are invading, go kill the biggest one.

>>3842922
The first time you killed Diablo in the original game and rolled that ending cinematic back in the day was pretty hardcore.

>>3846776
>don't stick it in your forehead, you idiot

>>3846715
The main reason why the main plot of BG3 sucked.

>>3846715
>Open world ruins storylines due to giving them bad pacing issues. Makes tension, urgency, and even emotional connection get watered down.
>eg:
>>"OMG x town is going to be attacked! we have to go save them!"
>>proceeds to spend the next 20 hours running around
By that logic, if I make my character drown in a pond, the story sucks

>>3825925 (OP)
Vandal Hearts 1. Simple story but highly emotional and smartly written. Everyone from hero to villain has rational reasons for doing what they do. Every character feels unique even if they only get 4-5 lines max in the game. And it has the best trope in fiction where the MC and other strong members of the party get cut off from the rest of the group by time/dimensional travel and emerge in a bad future where the evil guys won/made massive gains and the other heroes who thought the MC died are grimly slogging on with no real hope only to have the MC show back up just before everything is truly lost in a big damn hero moment to reignite the fight.

Top shelf RPG.

>>3827957
post hairline

>>3846687
Has to be bait, the only way someone would actually pick that is if he was 13 and no one who's 13 in 2025 has played Warcraft 3.

>>3850320
What did they mean by this

>>3850187
>By that logic, if I make my character drown in a pond, the story sucks
>implying it only seems like it sucks if you take the allowed detours, because its a choice to detour
>implying that open world game main stories are only possible to enjoy if you ignore all other content and only do the MSQ
This is exactly my point. You proved my point while thinking you had a gotcha.

>>3826999
Perhaps read the OP again. This isn't about game stories compared to storytelling as a whole. This is about the best stories WITHIN a single genre of gaming. While I dont agree with your nonsense to begin with, even if it was true, there would still be cases to be made for the "greatest story in an RPG."

>>3831966
>you just want action games, not tactical games

i played BG3 after few week long XCOM2 binge and the """"tactical""" gamplay in BG3 felt like absolute garbage, 0 balance or challenge whatsoever.

>>3846687
this is bait
every warcraft3 og story is about corruption
arthas got corrupted, then grom got corrupted then illidan got corrupted (but this time hes a good cuck boy simp for trande)
also all of them are stolen from star wars prequels
blizzard never made an original story

>>3851113
so you beaten game on hardest difficulty?

Nobody play E33 yet? It's is easily one of the best stories in gaming now.

>>3851129
FF8 is still better. The best stories in video games generally aren't RPGs it seems.

>>3831938
Notice how you didn't get a single answer, lmao.
This board is cooked, its full of trolls.

>>3851203
It's just that people who can come up with an original opinion are a minority

For every person who has something (seemingly accurate) to say, there's an audience of 100k people saying
>yooooo I feel the same way
>...someone else just had to put it to words first

And if someone's competent enough to say something about Planescape, they probably don't waste it on an anonymous board

>>3825937
>PoE 1 & 2 have well fleshed out companions who are reasonably interactive
What games did you play, certainly not pillars.

Baldur's gate 3 has very few mentions. Is this a contrarian board?

>>3851539
>Baldur's gate 3 has very few mentions.
Baldurs Gate 3’s plot and writing and storytelling is some of the worst that I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been playing computer games since the early 90s.

>>3825925 (OP)
I firmly maintain that video games aren't movies, and so when a game tells its story like a movie (i.e., with long-winded, over-produced cutscenes that steal the show to the point that the gameplay that stitches them together feels like an afterthought) it kind of loses me. A game inherently comes with a different set of tools for storytelling than a movie does, so I like it when a game actually takes advantage of them.

To that end, Skies of Arcadia is one of my favs. The nuts and bolts of the story itself are honestly nothing special—it's the same standard "evil empire seeks to revive an ancient, armageddon-triggering superweapon in order to repeat the mistakes of the past while plucky teens venture to stop them" plot that has been done to death in every anime/manga/JRPG over the past 40 years. But it's how this coming-of-age story is told that makes it resonate. The game specifically builds up the world and all of your accomplishments to feel significant and unpredictable even though it's all scripted and everything happens the same for every player. The beginning of the sees you sneaking into the empire's stronghold to rescue your family, and it makes a properly big deal of it, as a couple of snot-nosed kids leverage every angle they can to gain access to (and escape from) an impenetrable fortress. Again, these story beats are nothing unique, but it's how the game uses its pacing and atmosphere to make you feel about them that truly resonated with me and still does today. This is repeated with every major accomplishment in the game—you're made to feel like everything facing you is impossible, even though you're playing a piss-easy JRPG for babies. Everything is supported by LOADS of flavor text that can really immerse you into the world and make you care for the characters without needing long-winded, pre-rendered cutscenes. Pure weaponization of charm and soul.

>>3851554
>popular children's toy doesn't appeal to grown man

>>3851614
>Baldur's Gays 3
>Children's toy
Anon.Nobody's gonna forgive your pedophilic ass, but you can at least repent and ask God for salvation to save your soul. It's not too late.

>>3851620
>God
lol what a fag

>>3851554
thats why its record-breaking rpg which is going to be gold standard for at least a decade?
ok, surely you will give starving anons pointers towards better games?

>>3851627
High production values. Good graphics, motion-captured animations, full voice over, decent music, romance and sex, big marketing campaign.

>>3851614
>childrens toy
The irony is, as a child, I enjoyed playing Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2 alongside my dad, and we had fun discussing our playthrough and characters. Baldur’s Gate 3 is full of degenerate garbage, and I’m absolutely not letting my kids play it.

>>3851634
No no, let's see your better suggestions

>>3851539
>Is this a contrarian board?

>>3851634
then why tranny age have failed catastrophically?

>>3851634
also it had absolutely no marketing, it became widely known on its own by the word of mouth and on its own merit
you are telling blatant, wrong-on the surface lies and thus I wont take anything else you write seriously. you just a liar and bg3 is an exellent game.

>>3851829
>also it had absolutely no marketing
How dumb are you?

I nominate Growlanser V but nobody here played it.

>>3851831
why are you lying so much? do you seriously think your ideological crusade against bg3 to belittle its sucess going to change anything?
seek help, you are mentally ill.

>>3851900
You asked why no one was praising it for its story, and I told you that no one is praising it for its story because its story is dumb. You asked why it was successful if it has a dumb story, and I told you why it was successful. You didn’t like this.
Go re-read this reply chain and self-reflect,
You won’t, because BG3 fanboys are the dumbest gorilla retards on this board.

>>3851935
you lied about essentially indie project which been in ea for 3years without any marketing whatsoever suceeding cos of major marketing campaign. you ok?
is this why it was sucessfull? cos you invented insane (as in not existing in factual reality) copes about it in your head?

>>3825925 (OP)
1. Planetescape Tournament
2. Shadowrun: Dragonfall
3. Xenogears

various runner-ups: NWN2:MotB, The Secret World, FFT, FF7

>>3851937
>essentially indie project
Baldur's Gate 3 was made by 400 people spread across 7 studios around the world. No wonder you can't recognize what a modern marketing campaign looks like. I'm probably talking to a teenage third worlder with an 80 IQ.

>>3845564
>I will bring bg3 as an example.
I'm the guy you're responding to, and I think that BG3 has one of the worst stories I've ever seen in a videogame. The entire mindflayer parasite concept should never have made it through an early brainstorming session. The only reason BG3 ""works"" is because anyone with a modicum of taste in writing is filtered out in the first 15 minutes. Either literally or they just try their best to ignore the story so they can enjoy the gameplay.
>>3844687
>You have to lean on the characters.
Not necessarily. Obviously true to an extent but you can easily overdo it.
The player should still feel the game is about them. It's their character and their story, not a bunch of try-hard snowflake characters constantly stealing the spotlight with their own narratives and side quests.

>>3851600
I wish I could be a kid again so I could play this game. I feel like it's one of those things where if you don't play it at the right time in your life you just won't "get" it.

>>3851991
I kind of want to play now. Never played it. You're right I'll probably miss something. I played FF9 at the exact right age at least.

>>3851991
You can "get" anything at any age if you can learn to properly adjust your mindset and expectations. As we age, we tend to only appreciate things that give us very specific kinds of enjoyment, because we simply don't have the time and energy to appreciate everything. But I can tell you from personal experience that is behavior that absolutely can be un-learned.

A wonderful thing comes with being able to appreciate "kiddie" media like JRPGs with the cognition of an adult—you start to notice lots of little details that make everything so much more charming. My favorite in SoA is how strongly Aika latches onto Drachma because, despite being adopted by Vyse's parents after hers died, she still felt like an outsider without a family of her own. In fact most of Aika's character building is only revealed by interacting with the environment in her house and on Pirate Isle, from how she tosses and turns every night in her parents' old bed, to how she throws gunpowder in the fireplace for fun.

>>3852005
>I played FF9 at the exact right age at least.
I played FF9 for the first time just a couple of years ago and fell in love. Somehow I managed to have nothing at all spoiled for me after 23 years, so it pretty much felt like finding a wormhole back to being 13 years old—before I started playing, I even re-read some of the old EGM reviews from back in the day that had made me interested in the first place, as well as the entire instruction manual. Took me 10 hours just to get to Lindblum because I wanted to try and find everything on my own, and see every piece of dialogue. I was surpsised how often some of it updated. Sometimes I'd waste time backtracking to find nothing, but since so many people already declare video games a "waste of time" I decided I was going to stop feeling guilty for wasting my time while wasting my time.

>>3852022
>old EGM reviews
derp, I meant previews. I hadn't played a Final Fantasy back then, but I was kind of excited the series was going back to being traditional fantasy. Everyone was bashing it for the cartoony graphics but I thought they looked super cool. I remember in EGM's fall preview, Hsu and Chan joked that the game's estimated completion time was "11 years", lol. The thing is, if you play JRPGs the way diehard fans did coming out of the NES/SNES era, that exaggeration made a little bit more sense.

>>3852005
I played ff9 as a child and it was shit. Played and enjoyed all the SNES era Squaresoft, and 7 and Tactics, they were all great. 9 is just a turd.

>>3852022
>character building is only revealed by interacting with the environment in her house and on Pirate Isle
I fucking miss interacting with environmets and getting flavor text. It pains me to think how many people probably played Skies of Arcadia without reading a single bit of it. There's so much of it and it updates so frequently. My favorite ones are the ones in Drachma's ship, and how Vyse feels about having to sleep in a hammock next to the engine—he goes from hating it to getting used to it to missing it, lol.

It's hard to argue that stuff like can make a story "great" in and of itself, but it's a wonderful way of giving the player more insight into the character's thoughts and makes the world and events feel more real. The player's curiosity is rewarded with information. It's the kind of thing a movie can't do, but a video game can. It's a shame we've lost it.

>>3852022
>she tosses and turns every night in her parents' old bed
>tfw you realize Aika's parents died while she was so young, she probably never even had a bed of her own or got used to sleeping alone to begin with

>>3825925 (OP)
Stranger of Paradise.
I will not elaborate.

>>3851129
they aren't ready to accept this

>>3825925 (OP)
I’ve got to say, I’m glad to see no mention of Expedition 33. How do you guys feel about that one? I find the praise it’s getting to be pretty baffling.

>>3825937
Yeah I'd say Mother 3 is probably the greatest. There's enough material there to think about for years. Hipsters here tend to oversimplify it to capitalism bad/technology bad. Shigesato Itoi created Mother 3 to be a mirror of the player's heart, and that's worth a lot more than any prepackaged preachy message.

>>3831421
Based. Best story is DQ1. No cringe teenager romance melodrama. No countless hours of cutscenes messing with the pacing. No long dialogues to bore you to death. Nothing to get in your way. Just the hero killing the dragon lord to save the kingdom. Yet it still feels like an adventure in a cool if generic setting. Also acceptable answers are games like Wizardry and maybe gen 1 Pokemon like some other anon said.

>>3852733
I wouldn't say hipsters are the ones oversimplifying it. The inbred illiterati do, though.
As a fan who worships the Mother trilogy, I will risk the label of hipster to attempt my own oversimplification:
Mother 3 is not about "capitalism / technology bad". It's about how lacking sensitivity and compassion will prevent you from really living, and that cynicism will rob you of joy.
The consequences of overly exploitative industry that we see in the game are the result of unbridled greed and selfishness, which is only possible because of a profound failure to cultivate empathy. And the cold, jaded heart of a young boy has sent him down a dark and lonely path of self-destruction, which contrasts with his twin brother's colorful, hilarious, passionate, wonderful journey while surrounded by people who express their feelings with sincerity and love (no matter how weird they might be).
It was a story ahead of its time, for fucking sure.

>>3852780
I forgot the image tax.

>>3851957
what modern marketing campaigh you fucking imbecile? can you show me anything which proves it ever existed?

>>3852733
>Shigesato Itoi created Mother 3 to be a mirror of the player's heart
How so?