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Thread 3828002

234 posts 42 images /vrpg/
Anonymous No.3828002 >>3828101 >>3828210 >>3828434 >>3831477 >>3831806 >>3832033 >>3833325 >>3833457 >>3833535 >>3833905 >>3835785 >>3836725
Could have achieved GOAT status
But devs made the world too quirky for it to be enjoyable. How do you fuck up this bad?
Anonymous No.3828062 >>3828079 >>3828100 >>3833128
It perfectly executes its goal and isn't afraid to push boundaries to commit as fully as possible to its mission statement. It isnt for everyone but for people who it is for it is essentially perfect. Fuck (you) for complaining about one of the few actual novel concepts and games in a sea of absolute boring safe derivitave shit that has been the last few years
Anonymous No.3828079 >>3828205 >>3831744 >>3834763
>>3828062
Caves Of Qud is derivative, though. It's a classic roguelike just like ADOM. That's not a bad thing. It's an absolute timeless masterpiece just like ADOM is.

It's ok to be derivative. All art is derivative. You were trained on your previous experiences. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to enjoy the game in the first place.

https://youtu.be/jcvd5JZkUXY?si=i3wVsQ0h5unNL_zr
Anonymous No.3828100
>>3828062
>push boundaries
Anonymous No.3828101
>>3828002 (OP)
you got filitered
Anonymous No.3828137
Offtopic pedant and political nonsense. Actually ironically onbrand for a qud post such that If you enjoy being confused at how fucking idiotic and incoherent people here are youll love the game!
Anonymous No.3828205 >>3831727 >>3833326
>>3828079
>classic roguelike
It's nothing like Binding of Issac though!
Anonymous No.3828210
>>3828002 (OP)
Caves of Qud is more a modern take of 80s RPGs than roguelikes.
Anonymous No.3828273
troon game
Anonymous No.3828427
I'm about to go to Bethesda Susa for the first time. A bit nervous, since I never made it past Golgotha before. I heard that you want to have a good reputation with the Mechanimists before attempting, so I'm debating getting that reputation up since I recruited the leader before finding out. Having a True Kin with treads really is amazing for the extra movement speed.
Anonymous No.3828433 >>3828438
I just want more Gamma World-inspired games in general
Anonymous No.3828434 >>3828437 >>3828769
>>3828002 (OP)
I remember it was around the time Sseth made his video that devs revealed themselves to be unhinged lefties.
Anonymous No.3828437
>>3828434
they couldn't handle so much exposure
Anonymous No.3828438 >>3828453
>watching content creators. Obsessed with buzzwords because empty inside and mentally fragile
Its okay for some of you to admit you dont understand english well enough to play this game you know, ya it can be hard to grasp the dialogue if you read at an elementary level.

>>3828433
That's been the joy of the OSR fad leaking into video games. Finally getting some more retro inspired game design and settings
Anonymous No.3828453 >>3828478
>>3828438
Anon most RPGs are inspired by old school DnD. Honestly they're more retro than most current tabletop rpgs
Anonymous No.3828478 >>3828584 >>3833788
>>3828453
One look at the majority of the catalogue on this board would indicate most modern rpgs aren't close to something like old tabletop rpgs in the slightest unless you're going to suggest that anything fantasy/party/adventuring related counts. Especially given how many action adventure games or "subersion" genre stuff like undertale is sitting there right now. Even owlcat games dont feel much like a retro design rpg, people just see stats and math and assume I suppose. I wont even adress the comment about "currebt tabletop rpgs" since that's just wrong if you leave a barnes and noble or whatever you hamburgers shop at and actually see what is being played outside of popgames
Anonymous No.3828584
>>3828478
Almost every DRPG I've ever seen wears its old school influence on its sleeve. Same with most roguelikes that veer into rpg territory.
>that's just wrong
It's really not. The OSR movement is healthy, but narrative games like Blades in the Dark, PBTA variants, and Daggerheart, as well as DnD 4e inspired tactical games like Lancer, have never been more in vogue. Both stray heavily from old school design principles
Anonymous No.3828769 >>3829060
>>3828434
Isn't this the guy who is unhinged to the point he had a meltdown over someone wanting to join a faction in his game? That is legitimate mental illness.
Anonymous No.3829060 >>3829104 >>3831494 >>3832873
>>3828769
it was a Christofascist antag faction and it was requested for in a disingenuous way
Anonymous No.3829104 >>3831476
>>3829060
And that justifies a screaming meltdown because...
Anonymous No.3831476 >>3831480 >>3831481 >>3831719 >>3832873 >>3833038 >>3836125 >>3838298 >>3838770
>>3829104
You have to make it scary/inhospitable for conservatives because most of them shit up communities with their misanthropic antisocial behavior. A lot of them are incapable of being chill and leaving it at dogwhistles. Be "based" and they'll like you in the short term only to hate you in the long term. You're considered cool for allowing playable fascist factions temporarily before they get pissed at you for adding playable women/races and believing in the holocaust.

It happened to Daniel Varva of Kingdom Come Deliverance. He was always a libertarian edgelord, but his fans became radicalized over time and hated him for his libertarian position. You have to nip it in the bud before it gets bad and it ended up paying off.
Anonymous No.3831477 >>3831484
>>3828002 (OP)
You have to be schizo to enjoy this game. You simply got filtered. Schizophrenic games made by schizophrenic people will always be the best. You’re simply a normie, OP.
Anonymous No.3831480 >>3836126
>>3831476
True, conservatives are good social cohesion poison ironically.
Anonymous No.3831481 >>3831791
>>3831476
>believing in the holocaust
>It happened to Daniel Varva of Kingdom Come Deliverance
It's actually because he's Jewish and just couldn't help himself from shitting up the second game.
Anonymous No.3831484
>>3831477
This is the most mainstream trad roguelike of all time, it's incredibly popular. It's not your niche schizo game
Anonymous No.3831494 >>3832915
>>3829060
>and it was requested for in a disingenuous way
qrd? I've always heard it as the dev having an inability to tell fantasy from reality.
Anonymous No.3831607
>schizo lefty devs
>fanbase is schizo lefties seething at conservatives
just look at the fag doing damage control for a mid game because it appeals to his politics
Anonymous No.3831719 >>3831791
>>3831476
>You have to make it scary/inhospitable for conservatives because most of them shit up communities with their misanthropic antisocial behavior. A lot of them are incapable of being chill and leaving it at dogwhistles. Be "based" and they'll like you in the short term only to hate you in the long term. You're considered cool for allowing playable fascist factions temporarily before they get pissed at you for adding playable women/races and believing in the holocaust.

Did you overdose on your meds?
Anonymous No.3831727 >>3831768
>>3828205
Binding of Issac is nothing like Rogue either.
Anonymous No.3831730 >>3831867 >>3833545
This is decidedly not very live and drink in this thread my dudes.

Qud-heads out there. Is the narrative mode worth it for people who are dumb like me and most of the people in here? I dont think I have the capacity to do all the math shit, and the moment to moment gameplay in the random areas isnt fun for me. I have no desire to git gud and play procedural shit anymore. Thoughts? I tried the recommended builds and found they were much harder than doing the robo people as well. So that was weird. I want to like this game but Im getting too old and dumb for rogues that are this complex
Anonymous No.3831744 >>3833328
>>3828079
ADOM stinks
Anonymous No.3831768 >>3831793 >>3833591 >>3838059
>>3831727
What the fuck is Rogue? We're talking about video games here, not classes from Baldur's Gate III.
Anonymous No.3831791
>>3831719
>>3831481
It’s just some Jew trying to rationalize their oppression of what everyone wants, as you can plainly tell by the absurdist strawmans and adamant denial that anything caused by Jewish influence could be rightfully criticised.
Anonymous No.3831793 >>3831804 >>3831805 >>3833591
>>3831768
I think he means Rogue Legacy, that's the game the name roguelike comes from.
Anonymous No.3831804 >>3831805 >>3833591
>>3831793
You're slightly confused. Rogue legacy is the first rogue game. The legacy is referring to Hades, the prequel, which is the first roguelike
Anonymous No.3831805 >>3833591
>>3831804
>>3831793
You people are idiots the first roguelike was Diablo which had a Rogue class.
Anonymous No.3831806
>>3828002 (OP)
im a gameplaychad and this became one of my USB apocalypse games almost immediately. It earned a spot next to the iceblitz wc3 file.
Anonymous No.3831867
>>3831730
narrative mode seems wierdly harder. Follow the guide on qudzoo and learn all the cheese so you can do it with less guidance later. it's still pretty difficult with the permadeath.
Anonymous No.3832033
>>3828002 (OP)
Tranny game. Not an RPG.
>t. one of the first people to ascend when 1.0 dropped, played this since the old deathlands
Anonymous No.3832873
>>3829060
OK? this is the same game where you can cut off a dudes face and wear it for bonuses and waltz into a village and kill everything but being a chud is too far?
>>3831476
cope of the highest order. this isn't 2016. ive seen niggas who believe in redpill/blackpill philosophy who exist in leftie spaces just fine because the leaders don't sperg out and ban them and nothing happens because a person not being left doesn't automatically mean they're an irrational misanthrope (surprise). and the same shit about "dogwhistles" and shifting politics in a group could be said about lefties. you people can't ditch the slippery slope fallacy if your life depended on it
Anonymous No.3832915 >>3832931 >>3833007 >>3833014 >>3833504 >>3835524
>>3831494
TL;DR - flipping the narrative to save face

There is a quest to join the main protag faction, the Barathrumites, but when people asked if they can join other factions like the antag faction, Putus Templars, devs lost their shit. Average players saw templars as a cybernetic enhanced knights fighting against mutants.
The devs made the templars deliberately into a Christofascists strawman with slavery, inbreed sense of 'purity', restrictions to brain function, humiliation rituals and so on. You can read the wiki:
https://wiki.cavesofqud.com/wiki/Putus_Templar
But the troons view mutations as equal to their transitions, therefor the mutant are the good guys. The devs concluded that the only reason for you wanting to join the templars means you are a Christofascists IRL. Banning people discussing the templars, their lore, asking how to join them or even releasing patches that conflict with mods that make them playable. When they received a lot of backlash they tried to save face by flipping the narrative and pretending the players were 'disingenuous'. Here is the devs statement to some things regarding the templars:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/333640/discussions/0/3005549744946532986/
Anonymous No.3832931
>>3832915
I remember this. They proceeded to make up some utter dogshit story about "fascist raids" from fucking e-celebs like Sseth. it was retarded beyond description.
Anonymous No.3833007 >>3833014 >>3833036 >>3836127
>>3832915
>But the troons
Into the trash you go.
Anonymous No.3833014 >>3833497
>>3832915
Funniest thing is, even after all the changes to try and make the Templars come off as le ebil villains, if you purely go by in-game lore they're not only 100% in the right, the more you learn about the lore the more you realise they are actually the good guys of the setting. Retarded devs couldn't even manage getting that "right".

>>3833007
Well, he's not wrong.
Anonymous No.3833036 >>3833092 >>3833122
>>3833007
it's true though
>npcs are troon
>devs are troons
>players are troons

anyway it's pretty fun game, but the replayability is surprisingly low, as there's so few interesting mutations, cybernetics, items and side quests.
it's a decent base sandbox, but it badly needs much more content.
Anonymous No.3833038
>>3831476
>right wing people are extremely vocal about their principles and relentlessly push them in every community they're part of
man i wish this was true. unfortunately most are just happy if you don't include they/them pronouns.
Anonymous No.3833092
>>3833036
Rent free.
Anonymous No.3833122
>>3833036
Based troon namer
Anonymous No.3833128 >>3833304 >>3833317 >>3833547
>>3828062
>novel
>pushes boundaries
Bruh, it's not a bad game, but it isn't as unique or revolutionary as you think. It's genre 1:1.
Anonymous No.3833304 >>3833420
>>3833128
NTA, pushes boundaries may be a bit much but it's definitely novel. Novel doesn't mean "literally never done before" otherwise nothing would ever be novel. An RPG/roguelike being heavily inspired by games like gamma world instead of DnD is pretty novel. The gonzo nature of the mechanics (and setting) plus the way it allows the player to mess with them for emergent results is pretty novel too.
Anonymous No.3833317 >>3833420
>>3833128
If you truly played the game and walked away feeling like 'yup that's just like a bunch of games I currently have installed' I kinda feel bad for you. Rogueshit is super trendy, but done like this is really unusual for a lot of reasons, and done to this quality is rare too
Anonymous No.3833325 >>3833337
>>3828002 (OP)
... "too quirky"...?! What are you even fucking talking about. Don't bother trying to answer that, it's a rhetorical question.
No one is interested in your feces. Go play with it on your own somewhere else, far away, quietly.
Anonymous No.3833326
>>3828205
Binding Of Isaac is a nu-slop bullet hell with procedural elements. It is not a roguelike rpg at all. Like. At all. You might as well say Skyrim is a platformer because you can jump and move. Resident Evil is apparently an RPG because there's items you can find and equip while exploring.
Anonymous No.3833328 >>3833442
>>3831744
1. Kill yourself.
2. No.
3. Fucking kill yourself.
Anonymous No.3833337 >>3833634
>>3833325
You will never be a woman.
Anonymous No.3833420 >>3833501 >>3833541
>>3833304
>>3833317
Just check the Traditional Roguelike tag on Steam and you'll see a plethora of games that are similar, it doesn't detract from the game's qualities but come on now
Anonymous No.3833442
>>3833328
Based and correct.
Anonymous No.3833457
>>3828002 (OP)
>ITT political posturing
who would've thought lmao.

>too quirky
Q-girl was lame but that's all I can really remember. I thought it was gonzo not quirky.

I played it a bunch and thought it was overall kind of mid de sue. Lots of cool ideas and really interesting systems, but I remember virtually none of my actual experience playing it. For reference I played probably over 50 characters and the furthest I got was tattooing yourself with the mark of death or whatever to get into the big spire thing. My favourite character type was max Ego Domination + Proselytize + Beguile Esper to have a little army. I remember at one point I had managed to take in all 3 of the big trolls in Bethesda Sutha into my service somehow, which felt cool but it made my game run like shit cause of the little trolls.
Really I just played the game to see how high a level I could get my guy before dying since that's all there was to do beside the main quest. You can make some pretty interesting characters, but for all the mutations and cybernetics and perks, all they meaningfully change is combat and faction reputation (which only influences combat and prices to my memory). the game has lots of deep systems, but there isn't actually a lot to DO with them. Flurry + Berzerk + multiple arms + chimera was pretty cool I have to admit. overall I don't really recommend it other than for curiosity.
Anonymous No.3833497 >>3833569
>>3833014
>if you purely go by in-game lore they're not only 100% in the right, the more you learn about the lore the more you realise they are actually the good guys of the setting. Retarded devs couldn't even manage getting that "right".
How so?
Anonymous No.3833501 >>3833635
>>3833420
I've played a ton of traditional roguelikes, do you care to name any names?
Anonymous No.3833504 >>3835524
>>3832915
>5. The devs are all furry communists
>Only SOME of the devs are furry communists
Kek
Anonymous No.3833535
>>3828002 (OP)
Took 14 years to finish btw
Anonymous No.3833541 >>3836130
>>3833420
Name them. Name even three. Go ahead. It should be really easy. Open the tag and name just three that are legitimately similar within the first 50 entries and don't include the early access games that are obviously riffing on Qud
Anonymous No.3833545 >>3833554
>>3831730
>This is decidedly not very live and drink in this thread my dudes.
You do know what the dev is, right? And I don't mean furfag although I guess it's not a coincidence either probably.
Anonymous No.3833547
>>3833128
>isn't as unique or revolutionary
What other RPG uses Markov chains?
Anonymous No.3833554 >>3833557 >>3833560
>>3833545
Here's the secret. I dont fucking care. I dont get on a moral high ground. I dont follow parasocial streamer and internet drama culture. I dont care if the dev is a gooner or groomer or furry or otherwise problematic person. I dont care about nolifers who give a fuck about dumb shit like who the dev is and what they do

I play THE GAME and I talk about THE GAME.
Anonymous No.3833557 >>3833559 >>3833560
>>3833554
>game has a bunch of gay furfag shit it it
>surely this has nothing to do with the devs being gay furries
Anonymous No.3833559 >>3833562
>>3833557
>explicitly tells you Idgaf about the dev
>hey listen the dev reeeee
What are social skills? You cant convince me to give a shit about your little manufactured drama. Scoot off to summer camp now dear
Anonymous No.3833560
>>3833554
>I dont care if the dev is a gooner or groomer
Oh, you're a fellow Epstein enthusiast then. Figures.

>>3833557
>>gay furfag
LOL if only just that.
Anonymous No.3833562 >>3833584
>>3833559
>>I play the game and talk about the game
>explicitly talk about content that is in the game
>>n-no I didn't mean like that!
Is being illiterate a symptom of the same disorder that makes you a gay furry?
Anonymous No.3833569 >>3833592
>>3833497
The Eaters imprisoned Ptoh on/in Earth. It's not clear exactly how but the Amaranthine Prism has something to do with Ptoh, and it's only really attractive to mutants, who it drives insane and eventually kills. Every mutant is a risk of becoming a thrall of Ptoh, because even mutants who don't posess any esper powers have a possibility of developing them unless they are explicitly possess the Chimera genotype, which would be impossible to prove.
tl;dr Templars are unironically justified in subjugating mutants for the good of all.
Anyway, the idea of Templars being the last vestiges of the Eaters, continuing to carry out a duty they no longer remember or even understand is way more compelling than "we enslave people because evil, lmao". But that would have required the devs to not be utter hacks.

That's without even mentioning some of the later dumb shit, like Qud being a failed state with goatpeople as the most populous inhabitants, the fact that there's apparently an entire city/civilization out there ruled by slaves of Ptoh, or "joining a homicidal hive-mind is a good thing actually, respect my choices bigot"
Anonymous No.3833584
>>3833562
kek
Anonymous No.3833591 >>3833633
>>3831768
>>3831793
>>3831804
>>3831805
Nah you guys are thinking about Yahtzee, the first true roguelike with random outcomes and endless replayability. No two games are the same.
Anonymous No.3833592 >>3833604
>>3833569
>Anyway, the idea of Templars being the last vestiges of the Eaters, continuing to carry out a duty they no longer remember or even understand is way more compelling than "we enslave people because evil, lmao".
I agree.

>Qud being a failed state with goatpeople as the most populous inhabitants
Eh, there's at least as many Swardym and species-indeterminate mutants. Qud very much is a "failed state" and that's ok.

>the fact that there's apparently an entire city/civilization out there ruled by slaves of Ptoh
How is that dumb tho?

>or "joining a homicidal hive-mind is a good thing actually, respect my choices bigot"
Tau being extremely retarded is fine. All of Chavvah is quite retarded hard world-wise. It makes sense the dumbass thing gets pissy on a reasonable walkthrough of the quest.
Anonymous No.3833604 >>3833633
>>3833592
>eh, there's at least as many Swardym and species-indeterminate mutants
Svardym who are equally universally hostile to outsiders, just like the Goatfolk are. Even with all of the procgen villages, count up the amount of Goatfolk villages you'll run into in a regular game and you'll see they outnumber the 'civilized' inhabitants of Qud, and by a significant degree.

>How is that dumb tho?
There's nothing wrong with it from a lore perspective. My point is that the world is fucked, and it's not getting better. It's retarded to present the Templars as this kind of ultimate evil when there are so many other things that are just as bad or even worse. The Templars at least have a justification for what they do, more so even than the bears who have sat in a cave for 1000 years and contributed nothing of value to the world.

But no, the Templars have to be ebil so the devs can pat themselves on the back for teaching players about the evils of fascism or some shit.
Anonymous No.3833633
>>3833591
I love yahtzee because there aren't people in steam forums or watching some asshole on a livestream who then come here to manufacture outrage about how the straight 5s arent straight anymore

>>3833604
Really liked the amount of goatfolk stuff, it was a nice little lore nugget how frequent it was
Anonymous No.3833634 >>3833682
>>3833337
You will never be a man.
Anonymous No.3833635 >>3833774
>>3833501
Tales Of Maj'Eyal is solidly decent. Not, like, in-depth and amazing, but very solidly decent. Also free-to-play I think without the expansions, and there's lots of mods, some good some just amateurish.
Anonymous No.3833682 >>3833687 >>3833928
>>3833634
Thanks for letting me know I hit the nail on the hand. Disgusting troon.
Anonymous No.3833687 >>3833771 >>3833794
>>3833682
If the dev is a furry because of mutant animal human hybrids in the game, you're a trans groomer because of your horny hyperfixation in this thread according to the logic above
Anonymous No.3833771
>>3833687
>your horny hyperfixation
keep coping, seething and projecting
Anonymous No.3833774
>>3833635
I love ToME, I have almost 200 hours on it (still no roguelike win lmao). It's not very Qud-like though, outside of having an open world. And even then they handle their worlds differently.
Anonymous No.3833788 >>3833926
>>3828478
>One look at the majority of the catalogue on this board would indicate most modern rpgs aren't close to something like old tabletop rpgs in the slightest unless you're going to suggest that anything

While this is certainly true, the complication is that modern tabletop rpgs are also aren't close to old tabletop rpgs. The genre has changed fundamentally everywhere.
Anonymous No.3833794 >>3833863 >>3834045 >>3834061 >>3838767
>>3833687
>dev is a furry
>check twitter
>they worship india
Anonymous No.3833863 >>3833893
>>3833794
>check twitter
I don't know why you do that to yourself. What possible reason is there to waste energy on that. Genuine curiosity. A game comes out, I think its maybe good, 'acquire' it, and then decide if I wanna play or not.
Never do I think "oh this game is XYZ I'll go search the dev's social media" like who cares? Why subject yourself to that. It's like a weird irony to do so when it comes to Qud as well given the theme of the game
Anonymous No.3833893 >>3833903
>>3833863
Because some of us have principles and care about things beyond just what makes us feel good.
Anonymous No.3833903
>>3833893
>have principles
>actively participate here
Fucking insane take
Anonymous No.3833905
>>3828002 (OP)
>caves of chud
Anonymous No.3833926 >>3834273
>>3833788
No it hasn't. The genre has grown and expanded.
The old books are still there. You can literally just go play whatever edition from whatever year you want. Like, no one is gonna stop you. There are no gestapo prowling on the hunt for dorks furtively gathering in basements to play 2nd edition D&D.

Go play whatever game you want. They don't just poof out of existence. They're still there. You can still read them. It's not fucking ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs.

Now, on a more serious and sincere note, I invite you to introspect and think carefully about what it means that fewer people still use the old systems and why that might be. Have you ever actually played an old edition of D&D from the 1900s? Have you? Because for some reason I don't believe you have.

And I don't believe you ever will.

But I do believe you want people to think you have and do. You'll be a lot cooler when you stop trying to seem cool, kiddo. And the first step to coolness is to stop gooning in your dad's storage closet full of old pop music from 1980. It's trite and passé now. It had its moment. And everyone got tired of it and moved on. It's not fresh and undiscovered. It's old and worn down because everyone has gotten sick of it. It's only fresh and new to YOU because you're a child.

Leave the old dead editions of D&D to rest in their graves unmolested by the hands of foolish, reckless youth.
Anonymous No.3833928 >>3833990 >>3834234
>>3833682
The idiom is "hit the nail on the head", you silly little goon. You're all over this board and your wannabe-confident straight-from-YouTube alt-right-Russian-pipeline posturing is extremely identifiable. Reading through these threads and then seeing what is very obviously YOU popping up so frequently in threads about games you obviously don't even play... is giving my anal ring the workout of my life as I just didn't think I could physically cringe this hard for so long. Try playing some video games or going for a walk or something. Get off of 4chan. Put your phone down, go tell your mom you're sorry.
Yeah, you're upset that you got called out for being a little kid in the other thread, but dude... dude. Seriously. Shut the fuck up. You are the problem in your life. Shut. The fuck up. And get off 4chan until you're eighteen at the very least.
Anonymous No.3833990 >>3834025
>>3833928
>delusional tranny has a schizo breakdown
It was autocorrect btw. Yes I am a filthy phone poster.
Anonymous No.3834025
>>3833990
As if that were even close to the most repulsive thing about you. Toddle on back to your high chair before your mom finds out you've been shit talking on 4chan again.
Anonymous No.3834045 >>3834233
>>3833794
kinda makes sense. golgotha was probably heavily inspired by for example ganges, and the world at large by the immense amount of horrible mutations that are so common in india.
Anonymous No.3834061
>>3833794
>Several of us don't even think England is real
Based homofaggots.
Anonymous No.3834233
>>3834045
Golgotha is where Christ was crucified and its believed Adam's skull is buried, hence Golgotha which means "place of the skull." If it's a shithole in this God forsaken game it's probably just the devs being le edgy anti Christians.
Anonymous No.3834234
>>3833928
making some sort of metaphor about anal rings and having the temerity to call anyone else cringe is wild
Anonymous No.3834273 >>3834285
>>3833926
>No it hasn't. The genre has grown and expanded. The old books are still there. You can literally just go play whatever edition from whatever year you want.

I never meant to imply you couldn't. Just the same as you can go play the old crog goldbox games any time you like. What I meant is that new table top rpgs as you say, have grown and expanded. The same thing happened with computer rpgs as did tabletop.

>Now, on a more serious and sincere note, I invite you to introspect and think carefully about what it means that fewer people still use the old systems and why that might be. Have you ever actually played an old edition of D&D from the 1900s? Have you? Because for some reason I don't believe you have.

I mostly played 2nd E D&D for much of the 90's with smatterings of the West End Games Star Wars tabletop. Then into World of Darkness a while in the 00's before fading out of the hobby. My experience with newer systems is from having listened to a handful of rpg podcasts here and there.

I understand fully why people who play now use the newer systems over the older ones. Part of the same reason I liked AD&D over D&D. I see it as pretty much the same reason why most people now would rather play Baulder's Gate or Dragonage than Curse of the Azure Bonds.

I don't see anything bad here, it's just how things evolve over time.
Anonymous No.3834285 >>3834303 >>3834405 >>3834502
>>3834273
>it's just how things evolve over time.
More like how lack of gatekeeping allows a hobby to be dumbed down to the point it's unrecognizable to the original enjoyers. Also faggots and trannies.
Anonymous No.3834303 >>3834402
>>3834285
You should have been gatekept.
Anonymous No.3834388
>caves of qud thread devolves into a weird surreal breakdown right out of a psychosis journal
Is this what the kids call Larp???
Anonymous No.3834402 >>3834488
>>3834303
You like this, do you?
Anonymous No.3834405 >>3834423 >>3834766
>>3834285
>Also faggots and trannies.
The irony. A lot of the people I played tabletop games with back then were openly gay and several have transitioned now. I can't speak much for tabletop war games like Warhammer for example, but tabletop rpgs have always had a lot of gay and variously queer people playing.
Anonymous No.3834423 >>3834437 >>3834468
>>3834405
>projecting your freakish friend group on everyone else
Not a single person I played with is a fag or a tranny. Most are married with kids now.
Anonymous No.3834437 >>3834468
>>3834423
WoD started attracting queer people to the hobby in the early 90s. I imagine a lot of them liked pretending to be elves before that too, but that's harder to say for sure
Anonymous No.3834468 >>3834493
>>3834423
>>3834437
When did you start playing and were most active? Also where. Different places have different cultures, a lot of the southern US was obsessed with the satanic panic while it never even registered elsewhere. My experience is southern Ontario first getting into AD&D around 1993 or so. It might be that we're generally pretty progressive but we didn't really care. Luke playing a horny flamboyant elf was par for the course.
Anonymous No.3834488
>>3834402
That can't be real lol
Anonymous No.3834493
>>3834468
No, it's just that you're a faggot and you surrounded yourself with faggots.
Anonymous No.3834502 >>3834507 >>3834510 >>3834513 >>3834661 >>3834766
>>3834285
Everyone here who was actually alive in those days immediately recognizes that you were not. Tabletop games were the refuge of outcasts, dorks, freaks and geeks. It literally was a safe space before the concept of "safe space" existed. Autism wasn't even really understood in those days. There wasn't a concept of "transgender", they were just gay. You didn't "enjoy" games, you played them. No one was gatekeeping, because no one had to: to be associated with games was to be profoundly uncool. No one admitted they played games to anyone who didn't also admit they played games. It was a secret shameful thing that got you stuffed in lockers and trashcans at school.

There was no dumbing down. That's not what happened. Instead, what happened is that games became more socially acceptable - and thus more profitable. And thus there became a desire to make them a more formal experience, with rules that weren't just Mother May I and Calvinball. The concept of "game design" began to emerge, and the notion that you could critique and alter the "design" became a topic for debate and analysis.

And elsewhere in culture it became less stigmatized to be a nerd. It became acceptable to acknowledge that humans are different on an individual level. It's not that it wasn't known. It just wasn't allowed to be discussed.

Or, in other words, the dissolution of gatekeeping allowed the nerds, freaks and geeks to exist in the open and expanded and revitalized what was a niche (and dying) interest in a tiny socioeconomic demographic. If the ostracization of nerds hadn't faded around the turn of the century, there would be no RPGs today.

And YOU wouldn't have survived high school.
Anonymous No.3834507 >>3834520 >>3834661 >>3837113
>>3834502
I'm 42. I played football, hockey and D&D in HS. Get fucked, faggot.
Anonymous No.3834510
>>3834502
Rekt.
>t. was there, it’s true
Anonymous No.3834513 >>3834563
>>3834502
>It was a secret shameful thing that got you stuffed in lockers and trashcans at school.
You're giving yourself away here. This is a movie trope that didn't really happen. Yeah kids got bullied (and still do), but not like that.
Anonymous No.3834520
>>3834507
And when you were meeting someone for the first time, which were you more proud to tell a stranger, that you played football, or played DnD? Don’t lie to me, I did both too.
Anonymous No.3834563 >>3834569 >>3834653
>>3834513
You're giving yourself away there. It literally happened more than eight times that I personally witnessed, to five different boys, just during the four years I was in high school. So, I mean, you can just say whatever? And claim that things don't happen? And no one can stop you saying whatever the fuck.

But you also can't stop us telling you to shut the fuck up. Life protip, kiddo, you are still foldable whatever age you are, and the best defense against getting folded is to shut. the fuck. up.
Anonymous No.3834569 >>3835018
>>3834563
Eight times? To five different people? In only four years? Something about that just doesn't add up.
Anonymous No.3834653
>>3834563
whereabouts do you come from, where the slang for roughing someone up is to "fold" them? that's hilarious, like some kind of paper mario minor villain who says "get folded kiddo" when you fight him lol
Anonymous No.3834661 >>3834665 >>3835018 >>3835680
>>3834502
>to be associated with games was to be profoundly uncool. No one admitted they played games to anyone who didn't also admit they played games. It was a secret shameful thing that got you stuffed in lockers and trashcans at school.
Nah man, I'm with >>3834507 on this one.

You were bullied for being a fat ugly autistic nerd, not for playing D&D. School theater chads loved D&D since it became D&D, and always were the core audience. Math nerds always were a minority. Hence the continuous development away from minmax autism (which had a rather limited presence even in the earliest D&D) and towards an RP platform.
Anonymous No.3834665
>>3834661
>School theater chads loved D&D since it became D&D, and always were the core audience. Math nerds always were a minority.
Zoomer revisionism
Anonymous No.3834763
>>3828079
>boring safe derivitave shit
The clue is in the first two adjectives describing shit.
Anonymous No.3834766 >>3835019 >>3835780
>>3834405
>>3834502
You are literally proving his point. The fact they were present in the environment back then proves they have been in a position to ruin the medium once identity politics took over in recent years and opened the can of worms.
Anonymous No.3835018 >>3835088 >>3835115
>>3834569
Go ask your math teacher to explain to you how it's possible for things to happen multiple times to someone.
>>3834661
What you believe doesn't matter. It does sound like you're really worried about policing who is allowed to be described as "bullied" though. Are you doing ok in school? Does your dad hit you sometimes when you deserve it? Have you told your teachers or anyone about that? Are you worried they won't believe you? Why would they not believe you?
Anonymous No.3835019
>>3834766
You're making a leap of logic based on modern propaganda, rather than on documented history. History is not just whatever suits the needs of your narrative today. It's also not just whatever some douchebag on youtube ranted about while he was streaming himself feeding in that League Of Legends match. Revisionism is done with a motive: someone's been lying to you. Ask yourself why they would do that.
Anonymous No.3835088 >>3835805
>>3835018
Brother you need professional help.
Anonymous No.3835115 >>3835805
>>3835018
Please lurk 200 years before posting.
Anonymous No.3835524 >>3835810 >>3836129
>>3832915
>>3833504
>>Only SOME of the devs are furry communists
Which basically translates to all of the devs are furry communists or their sympathizers. I've never seen a furry communist put up with anything outside of their thought-bubble, left, right OR center of the spectrum. So if some of them are furry communists, either the rest of the group are JUST communist/furry, or they are cowtowing in fear out of troll's remorse. The furry-commie devs would have ousted anyone who disagrees or they would have left if they weren't in power and couldn't find a way to seek it.
Anonymous No.3835680
>>3834661
>School theater chads
lol

dude, get real.
Anonymous No.3835684
The acceptance of nerds into society has been bad for both mainstream folk and "avant garde" nerds all in all. Everything about our culture has become fake and hyper-real as it all becomes carcinises into a shapeless blob of vapid consumerism.
Anonymous No.3835780 >>3836359
>>3834766
Okay. I don't see that as bad. You getting your panties in a twist because gay and trans people exist isn't my problem. If you feel unwelcome because you're bigotted that's fine by me. Tabletop gaming has gotten better over the years from what I've seen.
Anonymous No.3835785
>>3828002 (OP)
I don't think Qud is horrible, it's just clear that they weren't really able to iterate on the premise very well.
It was basically in a finished state 5 years ago, or it may as well have been. Development has been nightmare slow, and it's clear they spent all their good ideas on the premise.
That being said, at least it's polished. I love this genre of game, and it might be the only polished example that actually has the immersive sim elements I like. Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode is another example, and Elona.
Most games lean too hard in the roguelike direction for me.
Anonymous No.3835805 >>3835874
>>3835088
>>3835115
You're twelve. I could wait till next Thursday to post this and you'd sincerely believe it had been two hundred years.
Anonymous No.3835810 >>3836129
>>3835524
>Which basically translates to all of the devs are furry communists or their sympathizers

Your schizoid hand wringing delights me
Anonymous No.3835874
>>3835805
Newfag-san...
Anonymous No.3836125
>>3831476
Your finger wagging speech policing led you to losing twitter, the presidency, the house, and the senate and a great deal of centrist and moderates. You created a whole new generation of right wing zoomers are sick of you paper thin holier than pathos. I've been in a pathfinder zoom stream with my conservative friends doing dumbbell curls with my rifle sitting next to me on the floor. We have a great deal of fun without you and our discord meme channel is far superior to yours. faggot.
Anonymous No.3836126
>>3831480
Ever since I've cut liberals/progressives out of my life it has improved significantly. I used to drive a prius, I had a subscription to mother earth news, watched the daily show almost every day, donated to public radio... now I loathe you people with a burning hatred. My conservative friends treat me way better than my past liberal "friends" ever treated me.
Anonymous No.3836127
>>3833007
You have the entire heavily moderated internet to be protected but yet you come here, 4chan of all places and get your pink and blue panties in a twist. Maybe you should downvote his comment with your account and your 6 sockpuppets to really stick it to him.
Anonymous No.3836129 >>3836323
>>3835524
They claim to be open minded but that DEMAND that everyone toe line and purity test super hard. One wrong word or viewpoint and you are deemed "toxic and problematic."
>>3835810
We're done being gaslit by you people.
Anonymous No.3836130 >>3836325
>>3833541
>not my job to educate you
you can always go back
Anonymous No.3836323
>>3836129
Lol
Anonymous No.3836325
>>3836130
>claim something exists which doesn't
>get called out for spewing bullshit
>not my job to educate you
>you can always go back

We can all tell that what you think a traditional roguelike is some action shooter with random loot
Anonymous No.3836359 >>3836364 >>3836365 >>3836407 >>3836600
>>3835780
>>Tabletop gaming has gotten better over the years from what I've seen.
>play D&D in TYOOL 2025
>all races are “people too”
>ability score bonuses no longer tied to race
>“orcs aren’t inherently evil, they’re misunderstood”
>statblocks scrubbed of “savage” or “barbaric” descriptors
>beholder isn’t paranoid racist anymore, just quirky
>Vistani (gypsies) rewritten in Curse of Strahd because “problematic stereotypes”
>drow society toned down, not all matriarchal sadists anymore
>“Lolth cultists bad, but lots of drow are just chill guys bro”
>“evil races” rebranded into “evil cultures” now “no race is inherently evil”
>remove “race,” use “species”
>phb text combed for “problematic language”
>add disclaimers in old modules on DMsGuild about “outdated depictions”
>everyone can use any background + stats combo
>gender-neutral language everywhere
>“inclusive adventurers”
>all cultures are “valid,” none inherently oppressive
>combat wheelchair
Anonymous No.3836364
>>3836359
>remove “race,” use “species”
They’re accidentally so close to recognizing multiple sub-species of humans.
Anonymous No.3836365
>>3836359
Them gendered monsters like Hags Mariliths and Sphinxes all gender neutral in the new monster manual really pissed me off. Cant even have sexy snake demonesses anymore, everything needs to be a generic and middle of the road as possible
Anonymous No.3836407 >>3836413 >>3836884
>>3836359
I was talking more about the mechanics of combat and having different classes having much more interesting choices which makes fighting shit more fun than in earlier systems. What you're talking about is mostly lore which can easily be changed. If you want to run a campaign where orcs are evil and Drow are as weird as they ever were, you can. Want to add race / gender stat modifiers when character creating for your campaign? No one is going to stop you, it's your game, that's the point.
Anonymous No.3836413 >>3836637
>>3836407
>disingenuous faggot ignores the mechanical changes to make the game align with the woke worldview
shocking
It's a shit argument anyway. The lore can be house ruled? Wow no shit, so can the actual rules.
Anonymous No.3836468 >>3836927
Troons ruin every forum. They try to turn everything into reddit. The speech policing is what turns people against you. The tranny mods here are the same as everywhere else. Troons fundamentally can't handle the truth. That's why troons are so Ban happy.
Anonymous No.3836594 >>3837043
>See thread about caves of qud
>Cool
>Derails into a political debate
Sad state. Doesn't help that the devs and the playerbase are absolutely nuts.
I always liked the world, that's what got me in, didn't play the story for the first 30 or so hours. My disappointment when the plot is about some weird geeks living in a basement was brutal.
In my head I had created all these cool stories about how factions came to be, about the ruins that I found and about the drifters that you come by. And then boom, some weird characters le chungus quirky reddit momento writing.
I truly felt hurt.
Anonymous No.3836600 >>3836605 >>3836702 >>3836929 >>3836998
>>3836359
At least 80% of this list is either grossly misrepresented or things that date back to previous editions. Shitpost all you want with your /v/ culture war shit but stop trying to drag fucking tabletop into your fucking lies
>Muh racial ability scores
>Modern DnD's racial ability scores were terribly implemented sacred cows but I NEED them back in the game because I'd prefer to have something fit my politics than be remotely decent game design!!!!!!!
>All this gender neutral language is woke! It wasn't woke when the game was written to refer to the DM and all players as "she" decades ago!!
>I don't care that alignment is an archaic sacred cow whose implementation often doesn't make sense, I need my worldview validated before consistent or logical world building is added!
>Look! They erased all oppressive and evil cultures! But also I'm complaining that they made evil cultural for sapient races! It's both!!
>See how woke it is that you can play all these races? btw you can play fewer races than the previous editions, and Gygax himself let people play gonzo shit, but it only counts as woke now!
Fuck off back to /v/ you scumbag. 5e is terrible, but not because it was written by leftists.
Anonymous No.3836605 >>3836609 >>3836929
>>3836600
His list was far closer to the truth than yours. You come across as disingenuous and dishonest (which you project onto others, naturally).
Anonymous No.3836609 >>3836611
>>3836605
>list was far closer to the truth than yours
No, it wasn't.
>no u
lmao.
Anonymous No.3836611
>>3836609
>no u
Whew lad.
Anonymous No.3836616
Caves of Qum am i rite????
Eh.. eh? Anybody?
>t. desperately trying to bring back the funny we had going at the beginning
Anonymous No.3836637
>>3836413
I'm genuinely not trying to stir up shit. I have mostly been out of tabletop gaming for at least 15 years, I have no skin in the game as far as the politics of the current stuff being published. Back in the day we just threw out and chsbfed anything that didn't appeal and it see any issue with it. So I genuinely don't see what's different now.
Anonymous No.3836702 >>3836921
>>3836600
>tranny has a melty
Anonymous No.3836725
>>3828002 (OP)
The devs based it on shitskin garbage. The game itself isn't that great, very easy to break and exploit shit, even in roguelike terms.
It's boring, but reddignogs go wild for anything with a flashy-retro-ascii-modern-fusion aesthetic
Anonymous No.3836884 >>3836919
>>3836407
>hey guys, I want to run D&D but with a few changes
>here are the first 3 books of house rules for each of you
>I'll bring you the rest tomorrow because my back hurts already
Anonymous No.3836919
>>3836884
Maybe things changed but I can barely think of a campaign I played in where there weren't some kind of house rules or a tweak on the setting. The rule books are broad guides not a hard set. Is that unusual now?
Anonymous No.3836921
>>3836702
>lie
>called out
>try to spin it as a tantrum
Cope. Seethe too, if you're so inclined.
Anonymous No.3836927
>>3836468
You seem to find yourself constantly running away to find ever-more obscure, ever more insular, ever smaller corners of the internet to hide in... why?
Anonymous No.3836929 >>3836961 >>3836998
>>3836605
Dude. D&D 5e is not some weird esoteric thing that no one can just go look at and read. It's one of the most talked about and analyzed things in entertainment of any media format.
>>3836600
Is correct in their assessment of the hypocrisy and lies. D&D 5e is garbage because of its game design. None of the "woke" changes are new. And no one complained about the changes when they originally happened twenty years ago.
Anonymous No.3836961
>>3836929
>and no one complained about the changes when they originally happened twenty years ago
kek
Anonymous No.3836998 >>3837014 >>3837096
>>3836600
>>3836929
Obvious samefag gaslighting. This is just pathetic.
Anonymous No.3837014 >>3837016
>>3836998
>anyone who disagrees with me is gaslighting

Are you being serious?
Anonymous No.3837016 >>3837103
>>3837014
Anyone who gaslights is gaslighting, yes.
Anonymous No.3837043
Can you two jerkoffs just share your kiks or grams or cords of whatever you zoomies are using with eachother and go erp over there so we can get back to talking about caves of cum already? Jesus christ

>>3836594
I love and hate the world. Every time I scroll a screen and there's a wall one space away for 80% of the screen until it just fully walls off anyway and I have to weirdly backtrack to get around stupid gen like that for a couple screens its a huge turnoff
Anonymous No.3837096 >>3837110
>>3836998
Anonymous No.3837103 >>3837108
>>3837016
How is it gaslighting? That's a genuine question
Anonymous No.3837108 >>3837113 >>3837166
>>3837103
Insisting that we're just misremembering things, that there was no outrage and these recent changes ackshually happened 20 years ago
Anonymous No.3837110 >>3837116
>>3837096
It's hilarious that in CY+9 anons still confidently post this as proof that they're not samefagging
Anonymous No.3837113 >>3837115 >>3837118
>>3837108
You implying that because you were outraged means everyone everywhere was outraged is insular and short sighted. Peoplein this very thread have tried to imply that average tabletop roleplayers in the 90's were a bunch of jocks >>3834507
Now that sure sounds like an attempt at gaslighting by someone who was never there.
Anonymous No.3837115 >>3837146 >>3837160
>>3837113
>my gaslighting is OK because I erroneously believed someone else was gaslighting
You quoted an anon who simply described himself in response to another anon actually making a generalization and insisting D&D players were always fags and trannies ackshually, when in reality he's just a fag and surrounded himself with like-minded fags.
Anonymous No.3837116 >>3837125
>>3837110
You can believe anything you want. Sounds like you're the one samefagging and you're lying about it, pretending that you're someone else. There's literally no other reason you'd be so worried about it since absolutely no one else fucking cares enough to pay any attention to it.
Anonymous No.3837118
>>3837113
>Peoplein this very thread have tried to imply that average tabletop roleplayers in the 90's were a bunch of jocks
Ya, that part did get an irritated hmmmm from me as I was reading through the thread.
Anonymous No.3837125 >>3837172
>>3837116
>Sounds like you're the one samefagging and you're lying about it, pretending that you're someone else.
We’re reaching levels of gaslighting that shouldn’t even be possible
Anonymous No.3837132 >>3837147
You two going back and forth this long is just as incoherent and rambling as the npcs in the game. I commend you both for commitment to being so insufferable
Anonymous No.3837146 >>3837161 >>3837178 >>3837559
>>3837115
>in reality he's just a fag and surrounded himself with like-minded fags
This desu.

D&D attracted all kinds of people from it's inception. It definitely, certainly, factually included a substantial share of sociable, well-adjusted people with entirely normie sensibilities. But some social rejects feel the need to imagine that all D&D groups were identical to their gang or degenerates.
>"Nooo impossible D&D would be popular if that was the case"
IT IS POPULAR NOW AS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF THAT

The only gaslighting is the idea of D&D and roleplaying games in general formerly being some sort of a cultural safespace for mouthbreathing faggots, because apparently Steve Jackson required that you mail him photocopies of your chess club membership card, your deformed physiognomy and your micropenis before selling you a copy of GURPS Martial Arts.
Anonymous No.3837147
>>3837132
And yet here you are, engaged enough to interact with it...
Anonymous No.3837160
>>3837115
Yeah because he's an outlier, most D&D nerds weren't also big into hockey and football. They weren't all gay or trans, I'm a pretty vanilla straight dude in that sense but we were mostly weirdos of some sort. So it's not surprising that as things went on game design evolved in that direction as well. I also see nothing wrong with that.
Anonymous No.3837161 >>3837195 >>3837648
>>3837146
>this revisionism again
It’s not that normies were prevented from playing DnD. It’s that normies weren’t interested in playing DnD, because it used to be the realm of being a hardcore nerd, and being a hardcore nerd wasn’t considered socially acceptable until maybe the last 15 years or so.
Anonymous No.3837166 >>3837168 >>3837176
>>3837108
>these recent changes ackshually happened 20 years ago
Eberron, one of the most popular DnD settings that has intelligent, non-evil orcs, was created 21 years ago. The concept of entire groups and factions good aligned drow being canon is also over 20 years old. Go fuck yourself.
Anonymous No.3837168 >>3837182
>>3837166
>more disingenuous bullshit
Yeah, as non-standard curiosities. Not the baseline that it is today.
Anonymous No.3837172 >>3837173
>>3837125
What's wrong? You don't like people just declaring that you're gaslighting? Is that because you're gaslighting? That's why it upsets you to get caught doing it?
Anonymous No.3837173 >>3837180
>>3837172
We've now achieved meta gaslighting. This thread has it all.
Anonymous No.3837176 >>3837189
>>3837166
>Eberron, one of the most popular DnD settings
lol
>The concept of entire groups and factions good aligned drow being canon is also over 20 years old
There’s a massive difference between
>98% of drow are inherently evil sadistic slavers, 2% are fringe outcast elistrae cultists
and
>first of all the very concept of a race being inherently evil is very problematic. So is the concept of objective evil. Who’s to say what’s evil and what’s not? So is the concept of race. We here at Brand(tm) are moving towards more inclusive and equitable language, like species.
You ignored 90% of what he said (because most of it is obviously post 5th edition, and in many cases wasn’t retconned until the past few years) because you’re a dishonest shitbag arguing in bad faith. You types always stick out like a sore thumb.
Anonymous No.3837178 >>3837647
>>3837146
Before the 2010s, sociable, well-adjusted people absolutely did not get involved in tabletop gaming.

The closest thing I could compare it to is like being a furry. Like being a furry in the early days of the internet. D&D was extremely not cool. The concept of "normie" wasn't yet coined, but basically what I'm saying is that, indeed, normies did not play D&D. Ever. Because if they did, they were no longer normies by definition, according to literally everyone but gamer dorks.

The normalization / popularization / mainstreaming of gaming began with video games around the turn of the century and then only gradually spread to include tabletop games afterwards due to a concerted marketing effort by Hasbro including now-famous series of video game RPGs branded as and based upon D&D. The actual mainstream acceptance of D&D is arguably still an ongoing process yet to be completed as GenX and Millennial nerds still bear the scars / traumas of the severe and complete ostracization and abuse they suffered in the '80s and '90s. Everyone older than Zoomers is very very aware of this. It's not up for debate. You can't just bullshit about it in an attempt to revise history. There's people still alive who personally remember it.
Anonymous No.3837180 >>3837190 >>3837196
>>3837173
You got uno reversed in an effort to demonstrate your bullshit to you and now everyone here sees what just happened except of course for you. Which was the point all along: that not only are you a hypocritical idiot, but that you very basically do understand what you're even doing as you attempt to gaslight (misusing the term in the process).
You are the perfect target for trolling because you absolutely will never EVER understand how completely you were destroyed.
Anonymous No.3837182
>>3837168
It's even more disingenuous to pretend that's not how they were used by 99% of actual players at the table.

But putting that aside, where are you seeing that drow and orcs are good at the baseline? I'm not seeing that in the new PHB or the new Monster Manual. Or Monsters of the Universe. Which nu-DnD book exactly tells us this? Because it certainly wasn't the case in the 2014 books, so of the like 5 books released in the past year of the edition reboot you should be able to tell me which ones corroborate your claims. The ONLY thing even remotely like that I can find is that the Orc entry in the Player's Handbook doesn't explicitly mention good or bad, but that is also explicitly written to be rather setting agnostic, it only mentions that Gruumsh is their primary deity and they obey him, but some orcs in some settings ignore him and go their own way. Gruumsh is still canonically Chaotic Evil. Meaning most orcs are at the very least still implicitly evil.
Anonymous No.3837189 >>3837208
>>3837176
It's already been said in this thread that alignment is fucking stupid, and trying to apply inherent evil to a sapient race is fucking stupid. Cry and shit about Gygax and his orc babies all you want but that's incredibly uncontroversial in most /tg/ spaces. But I guess it's WOKE to acknowledge dogshit world building, you need to keep the old and bad ideas to be BASED.
>So is the concept of race.
But the concept has stayed the same? They only changed the name.
>Who’s to say what’s evil and what’s not
But evil and alignment (as stupid as it is) still exist in the game? So who are you quoting here? You are quoting someone right, surely you wouldn't call me disingenuous then lie in the same breath?
Anonymous No.3837190 >>3837210
>>3837180
I don’t think anonymous image board posting is for you.
Anonymous No.3837195 >>3837214
>>3837161
This guy gets it. It's not that D&D etc specifically went after gay or variously queer people, it's that most people who were really into it were strange in one way or another so someone being gay or gender-bendy as we would have said then rather than trans was no big deal. Which isn't to say there weren't gay guys on the football team, they just wouldn't admit it untill they were actually sucking another dude off and even then probably not.

tl:dr if you feel uncomfortable in the current tabletop gaming culture, that's not a bug, it's a feature.
Anonymous No.3837196 >>3837210
>>3837180
>I was just pretending to gaslight
Anonymous No.3837208 >>3837241 >>3837251
>>3837189
As an aside, you have to be a bit more explicit than that because the kids aren't quite developed enough to take that extra step to understand your point about the concept of "based". Here, let me help:

He's pointing out how stupid the notion of "based" is because it's a term only ever invoked to express tacit approval / agreement with the "based" statement. Or, in other words, it isn't based at all... it's literally just groupthink. The term "based" was coined as an intentional effort to manipulate the conversation about regressive politics. By relabeling outdated talking points as "based", they could be made to seem fresh and new to children who had not been alive when those ideas were originally in circulation, nor when they were debunked and discarded by society. You are not a brave, bold iconoclast for believing unregulated markets lead to safe products. That's just fucking stupid childish nonsense very thoroughly disproven. It isn't even a topic in economics / political science anymore for the same reason that astrology isn't a topic in astronomy. Alchemy isn't a thing, it just isn't discussed when you take classes in chemistry.

Alchemists and astrologers are not "based". They're grifters and charlatans. Opinions are not "based" just because you feel like one is strongly stated or boldly contrarian. If you just go along with whatever some opinionated asshole says, you have no respect for yourself.

And being a contrarian is not good thing.
Anonymous No.3837210
>>3837190
It's definitely not for you.
>>3837196
I was not lying when I predicted you would never understand what just happened. You think someone's trying to convince you of something. So you've completed missed the point and you will never get it, either.
Anonymous No.3837214 >>3837232 >>3838279
>>3837195
Reminder that, unfortunately, the satire of Warhammer whooshes right over the heads of most fascists. So sometimes when it happens that they begin to feel uncomfortable, they are confused about why and what to do about it, and they get frustrated and angry (of course) rather than leaving when they're told to fuck off.
D&D and other RPGs are not political, really, so the cognitive dissonance within the fascists in those spaces is directly confronted by the act of playing the game itself: you have to interact with the players and develop the story together. Whereas in wargames like W40k, the players mostly are just executing mechanics, their confrontation with the philosophical commentary is more like a moment experienced outside of the actual space where the game is played. It's an experience that happens in your bedroom while reading the books or painting your minis.
By contrast, the dissonance developed from D&D is something that's brought out in an immediate, present sense because the player across the table from you is sharing their perspective as a victim of abuse and persecution... or attempting to abuse / persecute YOU! Impossible to escape from acknowledging that in the moment it's happening.
Anonymous No.3837232 >>3837645
>>3837214
>strawman
>bad faith framing
>false dichotomy
>appeal to motive
They're not sending their best, folks.
Anonymous No.3837241 >>3837645
>>3837208
>debunked
Stopped reading here.
Anonymous No.3837251 >>3837645
>>3837208
Cringe and unbased post
Anonymous No.3837559 >>3837564
>>3837146
>>"Nooo impossible D&D would be popular if that was the case"
Here's the kicker: D&D was INSANELY popular during the 70s and the 80s! It was found at the root of the Satanic Panic which caused it to flourish even more! Gary Gygax actually spent a shitload of time living in California getting chauffeured in limousines with playgirls because of how much money the game was making. It even had its own cartoon. It didn't stop making money until all the infighting that wound up killing TSR.
Anonymous No.3837564 >>3837731
>>3837559
>It was found at the root of the Satanic Panic
Reminder that there really were tunnels underneath McMartin preschool and the FBI and the media lied to the public to conceal their existence. This only came out accidentally years later during a FOIA release on The Finders, another CIA-ran satanic child sex trafficking cult. Absolute midwits like this specimen here still think it was about DnD, how many years after Jeffrey Epsteins island?
Anonymous No.3837581
We're reaching
>gays were beaten with hammers in the streets and cops ruled it as a suicide
levels of revision cope in this thread.
Anonymous No.3837645 >>3837652
>>3837232
>>3837241
>>3837251
When you samefag that hard in the process of misusing formal debate terminology, you kind of just announce to everyone that not only did you lose the imaginary high school debate, but that the target of your ire really got a good fucking read on you.
Anonymous No.3837647
>>3837178
>Before the 2010s, sociable, well-adjusted people absolutely did not get involved in tabletop gaming.
>D&D was extremely not cool.
That is a lie.
Anonymous No.3837648
>>3837161
>it used to be the realm of being a hardcore nerd
Not anymore than, say, chess. Actually quite less so than chess.
Anonymous No.3837652 >>3837839
>>3837645
>projecting
Anonymous No.3837731 >>3837741
>>3837564
>Reminder that there really were tunnels underneath McMartin preschool
1. A quick google shows that those were heavily debunked.
2. Even if we grant that, literally has nothing to do with what happened to and around D&D. You posted off topic garbage to try and deflect the popularity. Probably because you know how damaging it is to these retarded "D&D IS FOR OUTCASTS!" conspiracy being slathered all over here.
Anonymous No.3837741 >>3838048
>>3837731
>A quick google shows that those were heavily debunked.
You are dumb as fuck. The term "Satanic panic" and deflecting to blame DnD was literally a cover-up of actual Satanic sexual abuse of children in real life. It's a programmed response to a term term to shut your brain off, to make midwits go "hmm yes they told me that was debunked"
https://vault.fbi.gov/the-finders/The%20Finders%20Part%2001
Pages 47 and 48, hosted on the FBI's own website.
Anonymous No.3837839
>>3837652
>projecting
Anonymous No.3838048 >>3838063
>>3837741
I didn't read because you're still posting about debunked tunnels that are irrelevant to the conversation of D&D's popularity, which was massive. Go fight windmills somewhere else.
Anonymous No.3838059
>>3831768
Jokes aside, yeah Roguelike comes from a game literally named Rogue.
Anonymous No.3838063
>>3838048
>IT'S DEBOONKED
Anonymous No.3838279 >>3838288
>>3837214
Pretty much, yeah. Though I have far less experience with tabletop war games (pretty much just a now forgotten one we used to recreate Legend of Galactic Heroes) I dod tons of D&D and other role-playing games. And not that there weren't straight people into sports, I am pretty vanilla white straight dude who still plays shit tons of tennis. It's that I also don't give a shit if the other people in the group are gay, trans, furry or whatever.
Anonymous No.3838288 >>3838303
>>3838279
>I'm just so like tolerant and stuff
>can't we all just be nice or whatever
You're a faggot. We know.
Anonymous No.3838298
>>3831476
Yeah right, because acting all wholesome and attracting a bunch of hypersensitive assholes with rainbow furry pfps obsessed with shipping, palestine and showing everyone how gay they are is so much better. Conservatives at least are used to hiding their power level as long as you don't openly agree with them.
Anonymous No.3838303 >>3838307 >>3838312
>>3838288
If you want to get all huffy and upset that someone who isn't you likes to jerk it to burly dog dudes to the point you can't play in the same group that's your deal. And your discomfort is a source of comedy.
Anonymous No.3838307 >>3838363 >>3838363
>>3838303
Sure it is, faggot.
Anonymous No.3838312 >>3838313 >>3838363
>>3838303
The fact that they like that shit isn't the real issue. It's just that they tend to be really obnoxious while also usually being really self righteous, be it about that or anything else. People don't hate sonicfox JUST because he's furry fagnog, they hate him because he's also an entitled, insufferable asshole who brings up the fact that he's a furry fagnog all the time and uses it as an excuse to do whatever the fuck he wants.
Anonymous No.3838313 >>3838316 >>3838320 >>3838363
>>3838312
>The fact that they like that shit isn't the real issue.
The real issue is our subverted society tolerating people openly liking that stuff
Anonymous No.3838316 >>3838329
>>3838313
I guess it would be better if everyone just hid their power level and kept that kind of shit on the internet instead of real life? I'd still rather not act holier than them, as that would be pretty hypocritical.
Anonymous No.3838320
>>3838313
The rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
Anonymous No.3838329 >>3838330
>>3838316
>I'd still rather not act holier than them, as that would be pretty hypocritical.
Only if you aren't, you know, actually holier than them. It's a pretty low bar to be holier than sodomites.
Anonymous No.3838330
>>3838329
I can't force them to change their preferences, I just want them to stop acting like complete retards
Anonymous No.3838363 >>3838368 >>3838376 >>3838379
>>3838307
>duuur ur a faggot!
Say it a million times, I don't give a shit. That's not an insult to me.

>>3838312
People of all stripes can be insufferable, see >>3838307 If someone is an annoying prick then they're an annoying prick regardless of sexuality. I know some extremely annoying gay people and some extremely annoying straight people.

>>3838313
Understand that to them, you being uncomfortable and unhappy that they are open about who they are is a good thing. No one is interested in coddling your delicate sensibilities.
Anonymous No.3838368 >>3838390 >>3838545
>>3838363
>you being uncomfortable and unhappy that they are open about who they are is a good thing.
No it isn't. They can't stand talk back and degrade into a nervous mess, desperately trying to shut you up. They want you to be silent and speak nothing of their degeneracy, that is how they can infiltrate their drag queen story hours and chemical castration of children into reality.
Anonymous No.3838376 >>3838390
>>3838363
Imagine virtue signaling on 4chan
Anonymous No.3838378
He's doing this same shit in like three different threads. Just stop giving him attention.
Anonymous No.3838379 >>3838390
>>3838363
>That's not an insult to me.
Don't care. Didn't ask. Faggot.
Anonymous No.3838390 >>3838398
>>3838368
Yeah because they don't give a shit if you are uncomfortable. When your stance is that they should hide their true nature because you don't like having to acknowledge it why should they care about your opinion in any way? Of course they're going to be extra annoying if they see it pisses you off. To them you're just a bigoted dipshit asking to be mocked.

>>3838376
Virtue signaling is just angry bigots talk when they see someone not being bigotted.

>>3838379
Say it a few more times. It'll make you feel better, I promise :)
Anonymous No.3838398 >>3838747
>>3838390
>sad faggot sees the cultural zeitgeist shifting toward 4chan and away from reddit
>goes on a mission to change hearts and minds on a backwater board
good luck with that
Anonymous No.3838545 >>3838552 >>3838556 >>3838810
>>3838368
>They want you to be silent and speak nothing of their degeneracy, that is how they can infiltrate their drag queen story hours
You are so blinded by capitalism, fascism, and hatred you think people playing dress up is more dangerous than your president legalizing asbestos and allowing peter thiel spy on everything you do. It's no wonder people are becoming communists now, You people are so fucking stupid, and I can't wait for you to get the wall.
Anonymous No.3838552
>>3838545
It's all a problem to varying degrees, retard. Peter Thiel is also a faggot and Trump's cabinet is filled with faggots. Assuming right wingers are pro Trump is dumb af, especially on this website. I wrote in Pat Buchanan btw.
Anonymous No.3838556
>>3838545
>You people are so fucking stupid, and I can't wait for you to get the wall.
lol, lmao
>t. former lefty
Anonymous No.3838747 >>3838916
>>3838398
Dude I'm happy with everything that is happening. You are the one upset about gaming culture, I'm just trying to make ypu understand why you feel so unwelcome. If you do understand or not, I really don't care I just reply to see what dumb butthurt comment you'll make and call me a faggot because I guess to you that's supposed to be some sick burn.
Anonymous No.3838767
>>3833794
>you were birthed of a failed civilization

Ahhh, yes, who can compete with THIS
Anonymous No.3838770
>>3831476
>You have to make it scary/inhospitable for conservatives because most of them shit up communities with their misanthropic antisocial behavior
Lol, lmao even. Projection perfection.
Anonymous No.3838810
>>3838545
>You are so blinded by capitalism, fascism, and hatred...
No, YOU'RE blinded by capitalism, fascism, and hatred, as if the whole fucking world today is nothing but these three words. You act as if everything done to undermine them is the greatest thing in the world never bothering to check what the fuck you're promoting. And what you promote is, who would've guessed, is exactly these three words with YOUR brand plastered all over - woke capitalism, authoritarian communism and Popper's "intolerance towards the intolerant". I don't need to look at people doing fucked up things and think whether they're right or left wing first before saying "that's fucked up", you DO, lest you be eaten alive by your side.
Anonymous No.3838916
>>3838747
Anon, the culture is changing. There are normies posting 13 do 50, gay pedo statistics and ywnbaw on the Steam forums. Games that feature blacks flop. Everyone is sick of the kikery. You can only impose an unnatural order for so long. Nature always wins.