Thread 3852004

Now that the 10th Anniversary has passed, what did you think of it? What was your favorite moment? What did you think of the new lore? Was it everything you IMAGINED?

Are you making a fangame? Post progress!

reminder that ceroba is fat

first for focks

>>3852004 (OP)
>what did you think of it?
I thought it was pretty neat. Toby Cartmanlanding people with new content (whether or not i actually exists) was funny.
>Was it everything you IMAGINED?
No, pretty far from it actually.
>What did you think of the new lore?
I'm glad its not canon. It would really have fucked up my plans otherwise, and I also just don't like the implications it brings.

>>3852086
>I'm glad its not canon.
Or is it?

>>3852088
I IMAGINE it isn't

Deltarune was just...underwhelming, if I'm being honest. With Undertale being so genuine and exciting when it first came out, I was hoping for more of the same from Deltarune.
I put of buying Deltarune till there was enough reviews and feedback, but seems the fan base just skewed the results, for me. It didn't even feel like a clone or a knock off, just a game where some decisions matter. Deltarune would have been better if it came out 5 years ago, when the genre still felt new.

>>3852094
Deltarune really had its first impression when it was effectively shadowdropped via the SURVEY_PROGRAM stuff. It made a strong statement at the start about not being a game about choice, which we now know was a more long-reaching foreshadowing, but at the time was a great way of tempering expectations since everyone took it at face value and assumed the entire experience would be much more linear.

If you missed out on that, or just didn't have it click with you when it was revealed, then I think that's fair. Even within Deltarune's chapters the style of writing is noticeably different. Whatever sauce Toby had back then, it's changed now. Wether or not that change is good or bad is up to you.

>>3852100
I was giving my perspective. To each their own. I don't enjoy excessively tricked out vehicles, or wife beating. Stuff like that. I didn't claim I was the absolute answer on anything. If someone enjoyed the game, then good for them. I was going for the comments that were stating "Revolutionary" "Just as good as Undertale" "Game of the Year". I guess I will copy and paste an entire documentation next time.

>>3852094
Whenever someone says they didn't like Deltarune (or UTY) very much, I always want to ask: what do you currently think of Undertale, and how have your opinions on it changed over time? I generally see this sentiment paired with "it didn't live up to Undertale", so I'm always curious as to how highly they regard the original.

>>3852112
I went and played Untertale again after playing what I could of Deltarune. I say this because my friends keep telling me to finish it, but it's just so boring.
I can play Undertale and feel like a genocide run feels like I'm a real monster. Towns are empty and the citizens are right in thinking humans are evil.
I can play through and do all the side quests, meet friends and at the end feel like being human is worthwhile.
Don't get me wrong Undertale didn't age well. Some plot holes I wouldn't have really thought about without my friends, but I was able to play through it three times without going "Well, that's enough of this game." and I'll probably play Undertale again in a few years.

>>3852105
Okay? I wasn't trying to tell you how to feel or that you got something wrong, it was just adding to what you said with things I felt contribute to that underwhelming feeling of Deltarune.

I've been playing A Link To The Past for fun and i've basically figured out how deltatraveler's section 4 is gonna be like, its gonna be a fucking copypaste of the first section of that game except itll prob have some shitty tloz meme references and lots of moralfagging because ryno has confessed that the enemies will kneel down and beg for mercy when theyre nearly dead even through it goes against the actual tloz canon stuff
>Kris appears in the basement where gay pink hair link's fat uncle is currently dying, he gives kris the sword and shield, that is assuming ryno doesnt make you kill link's uncle in cold blood or something like that
>like in the og game, you'll have to go to the basement and then go to the second floor to find the secret exit except you get better hints towards where you're meant to go in here.
>first half is actually pretty fucking short, but the amount of enemies will prob make obliteration a bit of a grind (not that it matters, ryno cannot make tloz gameplay boring no matter how much he says that obliteration is meant to be boring.
>throwing enemies off the cliffs is extremely easy to do accidentally btw, so your pacifist run is gonna be fucked easily because hitting an enemy will end up making em fall down the cliffy area
>you defeat the mace swinging boss and he's like "oughh spare me plss"
>then you save noelle and it all turns into utdr gameplay ui
>you're gonna fight a bunch of retarded rats and bats and snakes btw, yeah, basically the game will call you a heckin chudderino for killing rats even through theyre commonly killed for carrying plagues and shit anyways.
>this section is gonna be painfully short because its been said that the castle is gonna be section 4
So yeah, expect kris and noelle to act like you're satan for killing a bunch of retarded rats and shit

>>3852147
So the usual overreactions? Meh.
Unironically the bad acting is disconnecting me from my actions. It was harder to pull off in the Weird Route.

>>3852147
I thought they said the Zelda world would have turn based combat? Which is arguably worse, I hate how they refuse to lean into the actual crossover aspect. That one SRB2 Deltachars mod is all I want for Deltarune crossover fan projects.

>>3852172
Nevermind I need to actually read. Still though, I hate that Deltatraveler is just forcing the battle system into its crossovers instead of adapting to the new gameplay style.

>>3852172
The first half has tloz styled gameplay while the second half has utdr styled gameplay

>>3852020
>>3852063
save that for the /v/ threads, retards.

>>3852094
>Deltarune would have been better if it came out 5 years ago
The best parts of it did.

>>3852100
I think Deltarune is best experienced with big gaps between the chapters. Even if that might not be the intended experience, that's how most people experienced it, and it works the best that way. It allows people to properly enjoy and digest its parts without getting burnt out or missing things.

>>3851836
>>3851907
I think having softer blues for the eyes would help. Might sound weird or arbitrary but I think Cole is *too* yellow in the Dark World

>>3852105
Deltarune is still my GOTY, but that doesn't mean its the greatest game of all time, just that I did not care for any of the other games that came out this year.

>>3852115
How far into Deltarune did you get?

>>3852191
I have to agree, he really is too yellow, Kris has black pants and hair, a pink scarf, grey armor and blue skin
Cole on the other hand has mostly yellow tones, it doesn't help that his eyes are yellow too

>>3852197
>>3852191
if anyone has any ideas, upload a sprite edit with colors so I can tweak cole's colors, though I want to keep at least his skin still as yellow

>>3852191
Dark world cole needs more brown imo

>>3852199
Hope this helps, I'm not exactly into any of these alternative color palettes but I wanted to give some ideas

>>3852215
I like B the most.

>>3852215
>>3852199
I think you should stick with the original. Monochromatic palettes are alright.

>>3852217
I wanted to avoid red since gizmo is already the red one

>>3852221
I've kinda grown attached to the original design so I am biased towards it, was hoping anyone else would have a better idea though because it is pretty much just clover's head on top of kris's body in LW, and with starlo's poncho in DW

>>3852227
>was hoping anyone else would have a better idea though because it is pretty much just clover's head on top of kris's body in LW, and with starlo's poncho in DW
you mean like a full redesign and not just some color adjustments?

>>3852231
color for now but if anyone has redesign ideas those are welcome too, I was thinking at least changing his hair but it isn't a priority (and I'm kinda lazy to redo all the sprites right now)

Is UTY a GMS game or a GMS 2 game?

>>3852232
>color for now but if anyone has redesign ideas those are welcome too
The poncho works well for the idea of a "fantasy cowboy" that Cole seems to have, the only other option would be giving Cole a cowboy duster like pic related
>I was thinking at least changing his hair but it isn't a priority (and I'm kinda lazy to redo all the sprites right now)
Honestly I don't have any ideas for an alternative hairstyle either, maybe give him a ponytail or something? that seems to be a common interpretation of Clover's hair and is often used in aged up Clover designs, but I don't think a redesign is really necessary at this point

>>3852215
I'd like C with the original's skintone, how would that look like?

>>3852227
>>3852232
I really think you should stick with what you have. Its good and it works.

>>3852232
What if you give cole a mustache? Itd look cool

>>3852238
GMS, we had an anon who ported the entire game to GMS2 like a year ago

>>3852241
here you go

>>3852249
Nta, but left looks like a Lego character, right looks too much like Starlo, and both look too similar in color to his light world clothes.

>>3852246
I wonder if it would be possible to port it to PS3 using that PS3 export tool for GMS. I know someone did something similar for base UT.

>>3852182
I'm sorry it was the first post I had to do it

>>3852004 (OP)
I'm just glad Togore lost.

>>3852273
Why?

>>3852191
>>3852215

>>3852313
cole if he sans

>>3852313
That looks dumb. Maybe try giving him his normal eye color instead of any dark world color changes.

Hot take incoming:
I think a lot of fangames would be better off and would get things done quicker if they had a producer. Basically following Toby's example when he hired a producer for Deltarune.
I imagine a game producer would create schedules and meetings with larger dev teams. Also hiring the right people like artists, programmers, etc. Sometimes they'd give creative input, although I'd prefer them to take a backseat to the actual devs.
But most creators are too stubborn to have their team managed by someone else, or think they can do everything on their own. like me lol

>>3852334
the difference is toby works on deltarune pretty much full time with his team, while fangame devs for the most part work on their own free time
many times fangame devs can't work for days due to IRL circumstances since it isn't a job for them

Genuine question: Does anyone else think the background art for Hotland in that scene where Clover and Martlet are on that boat kinda looks like the background to Scrap Brain zone from Sonic the Hedgehog?

>>3852334
Deltarune got worse after Toby hired the producer.

also
>fangames
>hiring

>>3852353
>Deltarune got worse after Toby hired the producer.
elaborate? is it due to the cut chapter 3 content?
it was either that or we would still be getting "chapter 3 is nearly finished!" updates

>>3852334
ah yes let me hire a producer, i will definitely earn this investment back from all the sales of zero dollars.

>>3852362
Its the production value of it all. I don't like it. Animations are too smooth, sprites too detailed, too much graphically impressive stuff, and overall less soul. I also really dislike chapter 4.

>>3852362
>>3852365
He also could have implemented most of that cut content in chapter 3. Almost all of it was finished, he just cut it to make the chapter shorter, when it really didn't need to be.

>>3852340
That's part of the problem, isn't it? Too often, a fangame lives or dies by its creator's/director's schedule. A lot of times they go on hiatus for months (or even years) leaving the game more or less abandoned.
In that regard, a producer could almost be like a "second director" letting the game be developed while the actual director is off dealing with IRL stuff.
>>3852353
"Hiring" I was using interchangeably, like recruiting or inviting. Just a grammar issue.
>>3852363
It's to speed up game production, not to make back any investment.

>>3852368
fangames are projects of pure passion. they are not made to "get a product out", like the usual things bring in producers.
a producer for a fangame is antithetical to the very reason you'd start making one in the first place.

>>3852368
>"Hiring" I was using interchangeably, like recruiting or inviting
Where am I supposed to find a volunteer producer? Artists and musicians will work for the love of the craft, who produces for the love of producing? Those people are almost exclusively professionals. And you were to find one who would do it for free, I would have serious doubts about his qualifications.

Producers are for people with money who have a lot of money on the line, not randos making games for free.

>>3852371
not to mention that a producer wanting to produce for free for a free fangame is an immediate red flag.
either he's shit, or he has an ulterior motive.

>>3852367
So Toby is willing to cut the chapter down for pacing reasons but wont even bother adding a single save point in the chapter 3 boards? At least hard-as-nails fangame devs wouldve been generous enough to provide us with that

>>3852334
Adding onto my own post:
Originally, I had the idea of "What if fangames tried getting a producer to speed up development?" After remembering that Dreemurr Reborn existed (game is never ever btw)
Looking back, it wasn't the best example because I know Fatz is adding all the ideas on his own, besides music. Even knowing that he probably hasn't worked on the game in years (unless if he shadow drops it one day) it'd be pointless to have a producer for what is essentially a solo project.
A producer definitely isn't for everyone. Sometimes teams can actually pull through and put out something in a year or two, and that's fine. But if a fangame creator is worried about completing their game in a "few" years or getting it done at all, then maybe having a producer would be a good call.
>>3852376
In my view, the producer can manage the team, but the director/creator gets final say on all decisions, creative or otherwise.

>>3852383
I just don't think getting a producer is feasible for a fangame.

https://youtu.be/vRg8mPXqWk0 heres a cool looking undertale yellow mod

>>3852367
It was the LoZ segments that were really dragging TV World and necessitated the trimming. There was no savepoints during those parts and it would've dragged especially during repeat playthroughs

>>3852314
>>3852321
Neither of you are wrong. I'd use the same color of brown as his outline, but I'm not home at the moment.

>>3852365
>there's less soul(arbitrary) because things don't look like ass 24/7
how do you people reconcile with the fact that there is a jump in quality between the first half of undertale and the last half? Or hell, the jump in quality between Deltarune ch1 and ch2?

>>3852472
NTA but there is a sort of stylistic clash that goes on with things getting higher quality animation. Toby himself must know this given how he scraps things that both look too good, and revises shittier things to look more appealing (Noelle pre and post Survey Program). I have no stake in it, I like that it looks better, but it definitely has a different feel now, even from just Chapters 1 and 2. There's now less compromises leading to funny jokes (Lancer literally just being a still image), and higher quality animations are noticeably no longer in tune with the roughness of Toby's sense of style (Susie's immense amount of poses noticeably look drawn by different people). I'm just a sperg about art styles though, I notice that minutia that most people don't give a shit about, so feel free to dismiss it. I've come to accept these things don't actually matter to anyone except me.

>>3852475
I don't have much to say but I see your point and partly agree, but I also think if Toby HAS the budget and the team then intentionally downsizing the art scope to look worse solely for "soul" purposes is ironically soulless. Limited animation jokes are fine of course, but while different I like that Toby is using the team to its fullest. If Toby worked on something after this and did all the art with just himself and Temmie then I wouldn't expect this level of polish, but the only jarring thing is that the early parts don't match (and I don't want Toby to remake the earlier chapters even if he had a hyperbolic time chamber and could do it instantly)

>>3852413
I like the Zelda segments.

>>3852371
desu I'd work as a producer for free. I am still a semester away from my MBA so I have the time

>>3852472
Undertale isn't all that much to look at even at its best. There is a gap between chapter 1 and 2, but its not that big and still keeps things below the acceptable maximum. Even then I still think the visual "improvements" to chapter 2 are a mark against it.

>>3852475
>I've come to accept these things don't actually matter to anyone except me
I matters to me. I hate the stylistic changes in chapter 3 and 4. I hate when anything does major stylistic changes mid way through. It bugs the hell out of me, and combined with the tonal changes, makes me not even want to finish the game.
>>3852478
>but I also think if Toby HAS the budget and the team then intentionally downsizing the art scope to look worse solely for "soul" purposes is ironically soulless
The entire appeal of Toby's games are the unique stylings born of compromise. Without those its all so boring and generic. Everything has pretty animation with a million frames, only Undertale animates you falling by having the same stoic sprite you use to walk around rotate and scale down slightly.

I would say he should fire the producer and most of the post chapter 2 team, since he has clearly reached the point at which too many cooks spoil the broth.

Also, he could have at least kept a consistent style. That goes above soul, changing a visual style mid game is just aids.

>>3852525
What would you even contribute though? Producers bring in talent and money, all you'd be able to do is bark orders at people.

>>3852004 (OP)
https://youtu.be/3w9FQu4YLxQ
prologue of RB!STORYSHIFT
Song and animated bits are nice; I really like it.

>>3852542
In game dev it's mostly limited to making a bunch of flowchart and making sure tasks are created and delegated properly. Not doing this is why a lot fangames become trapped in dev hell and with mountains worth of cut content.

>>3852581
Why do you need a dedicated person to do that for a team of less than five people? At that point the lead dev might as well do it.

>>3852594
He's saying it is good to have a tard wrangler so you stop procrastinating and watching videos/playing games instead of working on your game (relatable).
(Pic unrelated, just wanted to share it.)

>>3852596
If the lead dev can't tard wrangle himself, then no producer is going to save the project.

>>3852596
relating to your unrelated pic, that's actually a decent face sprite. Deltarune usually does a 3/4 or front-facing profile, right? It seems hard to pull off with characters that have a longass snout (Ceroba)
>>3852597
With a free fangame, a producer could just be told "no" and there isn't anything they can legally do about it, right?

>>3852598
>With a free fangame, a producer could just be told "no" and there isn't anything they can legally do about it, right?
On a paid original game they can't do anything if the IP holder tells them no aside from pull funding. So if Toby decided to, at any moment he could fire his producer and lose nothing, since he's funding everything himself and owns all the IP.

>>3852594
>>3852597
I mean he does it for free so there's no real harm and yeah ideally the dev lead would also be the producer but has to have basic project management skills e.i. identifying the critical path, creating a work breakdown structure and a time plan. Tard wrangling is useless in these projects as you have no formal authority. A producer's role is to factor in potential procrastination as part of their risk management.

>>3852232
I think the overall design looks fine. Although if I had to change anything I'd probably lower the mouth on his front-facing sprite by a pixel so he looks less like Clover on stilts

>>3852313
welcome to the underground but with Cole and Kanako

>>3852663
>Welcome to the underground
>WHAT IS YOUR WEIGHT?

>>3852648
true, just lowering the mouth a bit already did a big change
also, opinions on hair covering one of the eyes?

>>3852687
he's an emo

>>3852688
yeah that's what I was afraid
I just like covered eyes (both the cole and kanako stand ins in my original game have covered eyes) but I am not sure if it fits cole

>>3852687
Have you considered making the overall design for the dark world something other than yellow, and saving yellow for their eyes? Sorta like how Kris' dark world design is mostly blue and the red soul color is used exclusively for their eyes.

>>3852689
I'd say no

>>3852691
kinda but at this point it has grown on me and the other characters already fit the other color niches (also spoilers for ch 2 future content)
I really do like the yellow eyes on cole but anons were discussing it earlier and I tried a different version to see, maybe it will grow on me over time but we will see

>>3852692
yeah I've reverted it

>>3852687
I'm not a fan of the hair over the eyes. It makes him look like an emo, which seems out of character.

>>3852689
>both the cole and kanako stand ins in my original game have covered eyes
I'm now going to imagine your game as emo hmofa kino with music like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK8Xr7wyRIg

>>3852691
I think he should stick with the yellow, it looks cool and is a nice contrast against what the other human in Deltarune looks like.

Plus Kris's original soul might actually be blue depending on how the game goes.

>>3852696
I still think Gizmo looks better without the helmet ears.

Rest of these are kino, especially the Chujin.

>>3852696
>those three new characters
I think the idea of including them is good, but I hope you're not intending to do that in chapter 2. The chapter already has Toaster, Axis, BunBun and Chujin as new major characters. I think adding three more major characters would make things way too crowded.

>>3852727
no the only spoiler for ch 2 is chujin, and he acts mostly like gerson does where he does extra acts, but isn't a full party member
the rest appear in chapter 3

>>3852728
I hope we still get to have some Chujin Breencasts. Those would be funny.

>>3852696
I prefer the yellow eye, but just the brown eye works well here.

>>3852725
>Kris's original soul might actually be blue depending on how the game goes.
That would mean their soul is either a soul of Integrity or Patience (assuming there aren't actually a ghjkillion different soul types), and Kris' scrawny ass has neither.

>>3852739
I could see integrity. He is very dedicated to keeping that promise.

>>3852696
I actually like the yellow eye, I just don't think one eye visible at all times looks very good compared to neither or both. I also agree the yellow eyes would look better if the eyes (or skin) used a different shade of yellow.

>>3852745
That's not what integrity means. Integrity means having strong moral principles and sticking to them, and that doesn't really seem to describe Kris' whole deal. Loyalty or even determination, maybe, but not integrity.

A bunch of NSFW artists on twitter posted art of Ceroba all around noon yesterday for whatever reason.
That was weird.

>>3852774
that was my fault sorry

>>3852777
Was there actually a specific reason for that though? It wasn't just me noticing, some people over on esix pointed it out and that one guy on twitter who religiously selfships with Ceroba had a temper tantrum over it.
That last one was actually kinda funny, if a little sad.

>>3852687
Thank you for finally fixing the baby face, but with what >>3852688 said, what is Cole like? I think there's a distinct lack of childhood trauma in this boy and having the ominous eye shadow, especially in the light world, could give off the wrong idea.

But I don't mind it staying for the Dark World design. It'd kind of fit like a mask, being a regular boy in the Light World and being the Quickdraw of Justice in the Dark World

>>3852687
i like cole's permanent bedhead as it is but i wouldn't mind hair covering one eye if the whole one visible eye thing is important to his character

>>3852687
Cole looks like he's hunched over in these examples honestly, i would prefer it if you made these look more confident

>>3852774
Do you reccomend any?

>>3852774
There's a circle of furries that all have a private discord where they decide on a furry girl to draw once a week. Once you follow one of them, it's easy to notice since they often retweet each other too. Still surprising they'd pick Ceroba though.

>>3852807
You can see most of the ones that appeared at noon yesterday by going on esix and searching for Ceroba. You can find the rest by going to any of their twitter accounts and looking at their recent retweets, they all seemed to share each other's work when they posted them.

>>3852808
Huh, really?
Still kinda weird they all decided to post at exactly 12:00 pm on the dot, with a few stragglers later in the day. Seeing that unfold on my timeline felt like one of those Rick and Morty bits where they start to gradually realize that the world is being altered by the lamest reality bender possible, it was just nonstop Ceroba until it suddenly ended.

>>3852778
>that one guy on twitter who religiously selfships with Ceroba
You say that like there's only one of those

>>3852783
Who drew this?

>>3852813
>kinda weird they all decided to post at exactly 12:00 pm on the dot, with a few stragglers later in the day
Seems sensible to me if they're coordinating it

>>3852819
only one who's having a public meltdown about it at least

>>3852687
Slouching emo Cole.
No. Does not work.

>>3852820
i did

>>3852892
You got any more?

>>3852892
kino

>>3852824
I sent that guy a message on his strawpage explaining how a fictional character can't be "objectified" by virtue of not having any agency or personhood to be deprived of in the first place, and they promptly had a shit fit and closed their strawpage down and then yelled about it some more in some now deleted tweets.
I like the way they draw Ceroba, but christ they need to pull their head out of their ass.

I just realized something. Toby had a self insert fox OC back in 2013.

Does that mean all the reddit fox OCs were actually not out of place at all this whole time?

>>3852976
>Does that mean all the reddit fox OCs were actually not out of place at all this whole time?
No, first of all because Toby's fox character never actually made it into the game, and second because his green fox character was only ever meant as a gag side character, and not some super important main character.

>>3852986
Still, that combined with "five hundred skeletons" means that OCwank is Toby approved.

>>3852914
a couple

>>3852976
Toby is absolutely a pretty reddit furry himself, it what makes the So Sorry stuff kind of frustrating when you think about it at length.
But also he had a semblance of restraint (read: his own art skills cannot visualize his neon wolf guys into reality), which most fangame authors lack. They don't want to make the guys appear ugly or off or use something obscure mythology wise. While there was a definite shift in how characters are meant to come off by the time of Deltarune (far more "cute" and general furry designs with stuff like Ralsei and Noelle, no one is really on the same level of anatomically fucked as Alphys), you still wouldn't really call any of them "OCwank" on the same level as like Ceroba or Dalv.

OCwank is a bit of an unfair term, but iykyk.

>>3852991
>five
>hundred
>skeletons

>>3852991
>Still, that combined with "five hundred skeletons" means that OCwank is Toby approved.
I feel like a lot of people are misinterpreting what he said in those streams a lot more genuinely now.
Toby making that "500 skeletons" joke and telling people to use their imaginations when making things wasn't him saying that you can do whatever you want and it'll automatically be good or acceptable, it was just him saying that you can do whatever you want.
Also, again, the fact that the green fox thing didn't actually end up making it into the game clearly shows he isn't all for just shoehorning in random irrelevant OCs into your stories.

>>3853006
>>3853008
five hundred keks

>>3853009
Indeed

>>3853011
These drawn in MS Paint, or were you just trying to mimic the style?

>>3853010
He said that in the context of Underfell Sans and all he AU skeletonwank. To me that pretty clearly says "make as many cringe OCs as you want". It seems like he's encouraging people to make OCs, even if they'll probably be trash, because its fun.

>>3853007
> it what makes the So Sorry stuff kind of frustrating when you think about it at length
How so?

>>3853007
>it what makes the So Sorry stuff kind of frustrating
should've taken the refund, retard

>>3853029
>It seems like he's encouraging people to make OCs, even if they'll probably be trash, because its fun.
Any new character made for a pre-existing thing is an OC. What Toby was saying with all that shit was for people to have fun with the world he created, but he wasn't specifically telling people to
go off and make shit like Shu for example, he was just speaking generally.
Also, AUs don't generally have anything to do with OCs, since those mostly revolve around making modifications of existing characters rather than introducing new ones.

>>3853010
why are we forgetting that he said "i think it's good people have fun especially if it has nothing to do with me or what i created"

>>3853041
He also said "I have no idea what underfell is, but also its really cool". He was obviously being coy, likely because of legal stuff.

>>3852971
Who

>>3853064
Emb3rSwag, on twitter.
Good artist, but also a bit of a nutcase at times. Maybe those two go hand in hand.

>>3853077
>twitter artist
>insane
inextricably linked

>>3853025
i use sai2 but I do like staying close to the sprites I use as refs

>>3853086
Eh, I'd say it has more to do with being an artist in general than twitter specifically.
Hard to dedicate so much time and energy into a skill like that without being at least a little odd about it.

>>3853025
if it is mspaint its very good

>>3853087
Is that all of them?

>>3853087
>>3853011
>>3853008
>>3853006
>>3852783
cute artstyle, do you post these anywhere else?

https://youtu.be/OOIeCDchX_k cool new inverted fate fangame

>>3853156
what the fuck even is inverted fate, is it a comic with a collection of games?
I wish it was one single thing so I wouldn't have to keep checking all those different things

>>3853158
It's a comic, loosely based on the Underswap formula taken seriously. Some of the memorable moments are in form of videos, and they sometimes get adapted in mini-fangames centered around a specific event, like a fight.

>>3853158
Its an undertale AU slash Alternative timeline, basically its a big butterfly effect event where the asriel fight's lost souls are the only roleswaps in this AU, so basically toriel is still the queen, asgore hid in the ruins, papyrus is a scientist, sans is a lazy royal guard, alphys is the leader of the royal guard army, and undyne is the royal scientist (mad scientist undyne is the reason this au was created btw)
Basically, nobody else swaps roles, but they ARE affected by the roleswaps that have taken place, so undyne basically created an entire fortress for the royal guard army, filled hotland with a bajillion deadly puzzles, gave lots of strong upgrades to mettaton, the dummy, injected herself with determination and had control over the timeline, turned the amalgamates into rabid robots, and even created a powerful gigant mecha robot with so much determination that it almost overrode frisk's determination, snowdin is also a safe haven cus of sans, the ruins monsters are happy with asgore's presence, and etc.
Ofc, since dorked is a tumblr user, expect inverted fate to have tumblr tier writing with frisk having steven universe moralfagginess-esque level of writing to the point where they'll shit bricks over clicking the FIGHT button (see: ending the mad mew mew fight through violence) and even gets a giga melty after killing undyne in justified self-defense, not to mention that this AU goes with "Chara is a good person" and the entire final arc obviously seems to be building up to "UMMM ACTUALLY ASRIEL IS A HYPOCRITICAL OBSESSIVE CHUD SO 'MAYBE CHARA WASN'T THE GREATEST PERSON' IS LE WRONG!!!!" as its conclusion with how much it likes harping on Asriel over everything

>>3853119
i don't have much aside from some from boring sketches of starlo and martlet
>>3853122
i posted these initially on utg after they started including a content anchor

>>3853182
>i posted these initially on utg
Out of curiosity, what was the reception to them like?

>>3852824
I think easily the funniest part about all of that was the fact that they retweeted an image of Ceroba and were practically salivating over it, completely oblivious to the fact that the person who drew it also drew Ceroba with her whole bare ass facing the viewer in another image.

>>3853238
So like, that artist jerks off to sfw ceroba art like a simp but god forbid he glances at actual ceroba nsfw??

>>3853087
honestly, Chujin racism seems much worse that we know most humans probably didn't want the barrier either.

Although this is Deltarune Yellow's Chujin, that guy is just racist for sport.
Geez, he didn't even gave Cole a bowl.

>>3853303
>that guy is just racist for sport.
That's the best kind of racism.

>>3853183
nobody really cared, ironically enough I got into UTY/DRY after someone there recommended DRY to me
>>3853303
it's funny I think cole's sprite for sitting is unique to that cutscene so ceroba just couldn't be bothered to give her poor guest a bowl, gets even worse when martlet didn't make Cole anything because she rightfully assumed Cole already had dinner at the Ketsukane's

>>3853303
If it involved the level of widespread mass betrayal that Gerson implied it did then it makes the humans worse. Instead of just being scared of these strange monsters that they don't know or understand, they're rounding up and exterminating their neighbors, friends, wives, and children over some fear of something they may one day possibly do.

>>3853348
>nobody really cared, ironically enough I got into UTY/DRY after someone there recommended DRY to me
I remember people here telling that guy he was a faggot for mentioning it there. Said he would ruin thread quality by bringing in UTG posters.

>>3853361
>Instead of just being scared of these strange monsters that they don't know or understand, they're rounding up and exterminating their neighbors, friends, wives, and children over some fear of something they may one day possibly do.
Is it really that far-fetched from reality, though?

>>3853372
On that scale, yes. Especially when all it takes is six "race traitors" for the monsters to win.

>>3853266
Yeah, basically.
Honestly, what really gets me about them is all the shit they say about NSFW artists "not truly appreciating" Ceroba's character, only for them to turn around and rewrite and redesign everything about her just so they can ship themself with her.
I mean, isn't that at least a little hypocritical?

new shattered decade chapter dropped

>>3853449
Post their stand stats

>>3853455
What are their stand abilities?

>>3853458
gun

Would Chujin UTY stop being racist if Gerson told him about how most humans didnt want the barrier either, or would Chujin call Gerson a senile conspiracy theorist simp who is still salty about not getting to smash a human mage in his prime years?

>>3853518
chujin was racist because integrity almost killed kanako, if he was neutral towards humans before it would change that anyway

>>3853518
>salty about not getting to smash a human mage in his prime years?
Hey now, we technically don't know whether or not Gerson actually had sex with a human, we just know his partner was responsible for sealing the barrier. Gerson could've been pounding human ass all day long before the war broke out, you don't know.

>>3853518
The easiest reply "well why did they put it up then?" and there is no answer that makes humanity look good.

>>3853544
I've been thinking, if there were monsters on both sides which is the impression I get, what if there were monsters as well freaked out over the possibility of a monster getting those souls or a human hijacking a monster that absorbed souls or something like chara tried to do, or what if the war wasn't anywhere near as peaceful as we were told, and monsters with souls on both sides were like weapons of mass destruction? its hard for me to justify the lines being blurry otherwise

>>3853545
At that point it becomes an arms race to see which side has the individual with the most souls. And from there the war either stops because MAD is scary, one side achieves complete uncontestable dominance and the war ends with no need for barriers or human mages, or they wipe each other out.

I don't think Toby thought about this new lore too hard. It doesn't really fit thematically with the original game, and it doesn't work as a more grounded re-examination of the stuff presented in it either.

>>3853556
I dont think he did because he presented it basically as fanfiction of his own game. but I dont think it has to go all the way to mutually assured destruction. not when you have unique powers like that, that do more than just raw explosive destruction

>>3853556
>>3853560
toby was just thinking "all sides were only happy together" and did not think beyond that with the implications of it

>>3853560
My point is that a soul arms race would not end with 7 human mages creating a barrier. It would end with whichever monster has the most souls enforcing peace.

>>3853564
The only good ending is one where monsters are all wiped out or subjugated by humanity, so it doesn't matter anyways.

>>3853582
>It would end with whichever monster has the most souls enforcing peace.
NTA, but what happens when multiple monsters end up with seven human souls, or an equivalent amount of power? Even if a single monster was able to obtain seven human souls before any other monster, unless that monster was somehow able to instantly and permanently prevent any other monster from getting any human souls of their own, it'd still be possible for another monster to reach their level of power, so what happens then?

>>3853591
> but what happens when multiple monsters end up with seven human souls, or an equivalent amount of power?
Going by how strong hyperdeath Asriel is, I wouldn't be shocked if it destroyed the Earth, or at least wiped out all life on it. Can you imagine the kind of damage a battle between two hyperdeath Asriels would cause?

>unless that monster was somehow able to instantly and permanently prevent any other monster from getting any human souls of their own,
7 souls makes them practically omnipotent. They could just rewrite reality so there are no monsters on the opposing side, or simply remove their ability to gain any souls.

>so what happens then?
A really destructive battle where both sides are throwing around hyper mega death blasters like they're confetti. As I said before, nothing good for anyone.

>>3853600
>Going by how strong hyperdeath Asriel is
...How strong *was* hyperdeath Asriel? I mean, going purely off of what we see in-game, he doesn't actually do much that we didn't see Photoshop Flowey do, and Flowey still lost pretty damned hard. Also, even though you don't interact with the human souls in Asriel's fight, you do interact with some of the monster souls he absorbed in order to reach that level of power, and you're still able to turn them away from his influence, so it's not out of the question that you could still manage to take away a god-like monster's power just by convincing the souls in their possession to quit obeying them. Individual monster souls may not make up a significant amount of power compared to human souls, but the fact that you can still interact with the souls directly means that interacting with human souls under a monster's influence like this could still be possible, so I'm really not sure if a monster with seven human souls is that big of a deal.

>>3853600
>7 souls makes them practically omnipotent.
Do they? The only official information we have on what a monster is capable of with the (equivalent) power of seven human souls is Asriel, and he doesn't seem all that omnipotent to me. Powerful, sure, but *all* powerful? Not even close, he loses to a particularly stubborn kid armed with a stick, he's not exactly an unstoppable force by any means.

>>3853612
He was literally impossible to defeat in that form. He surrendered because his empathy suddenly returned.

>>3853544
Most people dont like their own government leaders but do nothing about it, The Undertale humans not rallying to stop the war isnt very good counterevidence against being told that not all humans wanted the barrier thing to happen either

>>3853582
Unless there was a human mage with the power to reset/reload who kept resetting everytime it became clear that the monsters were gonna end up winning in the end

>>3853625
Yeah, he surrendered to Frisk in the end, but Frisk also tanked a direct attack from Asriel when he was very much trying to kill them, and they still survived, so even if Asriel was extremely powerful from the six human souls and all the monster souls, he would've been effectively trapped in a stalemate by a single human if he wasn't willing to give up.
That's not very "all powerful" if you ask me.

>>3853544
My headcanon is that the whole point was to erase magic from the world. Humans rely on the laws of reality in order to exist and advance while monsters just by existing break said laws. These two worlds are incompatible and one needed to be removed.

>>3853182
star and mart interactions are cute

>>3853609
Asriel and Omega Flowey lost because the souls never wanted to help him to begin with. The souls I'm talking about would be those of people who willingly killed themselves so their souls could be used against the opposing side.

As for what we see hyperdeath Asriel do. Absorb every single monster soul, freeze you in place, give himself infinite stats, turn the whole world into a rainbow light show, shoot that super laser attack, and that's on top of everything he could do as Omega flowey.
>>3853612
He didn't lose, you just talked him out of wanting to kill you. "lets be friends" is a much easier sell than "let me exterminate your entire race, and completely invalidate the ultimate sacrifice you made to save it(x7)".

>>3853630
How does he stop a bunch of humans who live among the monsters from sacrificing themselves to save the monsters they've come to love so much? Once the monsters get multiple souls, they gain control of the timeline, and even if he does reset before that, they'll just sacrifice themselves again.

>>3853637
First, that human wasn't just any human. That was the player. The player is way stronger than any other human. Unless there was another player active during the war, then that isn't really a possibility.

Second, a human will give up eventually. If he knows that its impossible to win, even the player will eventually give up.

>>3853627
It shows a profound weakness in spirit and cowardice in the human race. They would rather become soldiers and fight to exterminate their friends and families than question their leaders. It means they have no principle, and are governed purely by fear.

>>3853449
started reading this, I like it very much but I think it's appealing to my chronic case of really-liking-anything-with-cowboys-and-revolvers-and-double-barrel-shotguns disease

Most of you don't know this, but
>>>/v/722441153
There's a new thread up

>>3852094
The best part of an incomplete work is the portion that hasn't been written, you imagination is left to fill in the blanks until the tyranny of reality strips all the fun away and leaves you with what is.
In a way, completing something is violence against the could have beens and the possibilities that exist in other peoples heads.
This is why Deltarune will only decrease in quality as it's completed, especially with how much people have invested into theories and speculation that have little basis or are directly antithetical to Deltarune as a work.

>>3853965
Games would be better if they were a lot more mysterious or had more unexplained mysteries imo, itd open up a lot of extra possibilities and headcanons that invite the player into continuing to engage with the product instead of being forced to walk away once it's all dried up and everything is said and done, Deltarune could very well go from being hyped up as a masterpiece to a disappointing full game with forced relationship plots and lack of replayability value due to how much your choices dont matter, sure, all of that manages to work just fine now, but i cant imagine a game where most choices dont matter or are only acknowledged once or twice and where the trademark evil route doesnt change that much stuff until the second half of the game to be received positively once the new wave of players come out to play the full version of deltarune, its popularity will 100% be hard-carried by the nostalgia of fans who played the deltarune ch1 2018 demo back when they were small children.

>>3854080
Most JRPGs are like that though. Hell, most video games are like that. I could see people liking it because of the music, the funny characters, and the angst that "helped them through a difficult time".

>>3854080
not everything has to be an eternal product, anon.
most things are just better if the book's closed at the end of the story and thats that.

>>3854092
Something doesn't have to be an eternal product to be enjoyable even if you aren't playing during its development. In fact I think most things shouldn't need you to "be there" to enjoy them.

Deltarune's problem is that half of the fun, investment, and plot comes from fan theories which all turn out to be false when the next chapter drops five years down the line. That means once the game is finished you only get half a game.

>>3854095
Deltarune will never live up to its expectations and will always be a disappointment to someone.

words cannot describe the emotions i felt

I LOVED IT its awsome to see how far its come, cant wait for the future chapters DELTARUNE has to be one of the best rpgs ive every played

>>3854199
True. It has been to me. My friends keep telling me to finish what is already released, but every chapter is a new story. Nothing matters when making a choice. Not to mention no set date for chapter 5 and beyond. My friends try and convince me to play, but meh, Deltarune just isn't for me.

>>3854199
I expect it to entertain me. The game hasn't failed yet.

>>3854092
Undertale Yellow isn't, it's blatantly incomplete which allows the imagination of the player to fill in the blanks.
Now, compare that to Deltarune.

>>3853449
so I started reading this and I only read a few chapters but I get the feeling the writer is definitively american
also it kinda feels rushed atm since clover is just speedrunning through the underground to get to kanako, maybe by the time it gets to the lab it will be more interesting since the chapter lengths seem to increase by a lot starting from there, still the start is kinda rough

>>3854314
> but I get the feeling the writer is definitively american
What do you mean by that?

>>3854330
everything gun related is much more descriptive than everything else

>>3854331
not all gun autists are american

>>3854337
also uses imperial system instead of metric

>>3854331
To be fair, Clover is American, and UTY is very wild west themed.

>>3852094
I don't even know how to feel after these 10 years (12 since the Ruins demo).

Undertale was very fun, then Deltarune chapter 1 came out. It was more of what I liked about UT and there was an implied promise the full game was also going to be more of that.
Chapter 2 came out and while I didn't like it as much, it still followed that same mold.

Now, the game is morphing into something completely different than that what had been promised years ago, and not only that but it feels like it is mocking those who expected something else if you take a closer look to what is being said.

A whole interesting premise and mystery being thrown into the garbage because, for some reason I may never comprehend, artistic types think rehashing a trite tirade about escapism and the nature of fiction is better than that.

>>3854365
>but it feels like it is mocking those who expected something else
while I get what you're saying when you talk about the game being different than expected/set up to be, this part is delusion. Toby grew up in all of these fan theory crafting circles. starmen.net was a den rampant for schizo game theories before we called them as such. his teasing is purely in good spirit and a callback to those old days. Toby may have changed in a lot of ways from when he made undertale, and its understandable if you feel thats for the worse, but his comment on how originally working with homestuck teaching him the importance of valuing your fans tells me he doesn't have the hussie spite approach. hell the mike thing for instance is taking the piss out of everything and then you walk to the right and theres a giant secret mike. like it comes across at first its talking shit and then it says"... but what if there IS something to all of this". he loves this shit, he was formed in this shit he will at the very least always be OF this shit.

>>3854342
alright that's fair

>>3854366
I just don't buy it. He may say it but I don't think he is being honest. Not in the sense of intentionally lying to people, but as in deep down he doesn't like how he lost control over his creation. (See how he made an entire route dedicating to mock the idea of grinding and senseless violence, only for it to become the obsession of the fans)

Once I've seen someone write about how Undertale was successful because it was a genre parody without being spiteful for the genre, but I feel Deltarune is letting that spite show up. Not even only for RPGs but for games as a whole. We got a chapter all about unlocking minigames and prizes only for the characters to be vocally tired of it only for all that to be locked down and the whimsical side of the game to be literally slashed in front of you. Years of great secret boss concepts and the real thing turns out to be barely anything.

Then we have the middle chapter be the definitive "Illusion shattered/dead innocence" moment of the game, when UT only did that at the tail end of the normal routes. Expectations about the church being full of lightners (something the game had just set up) were immediately subverted, beloved characters got their image tainted even when compared to earlier chapters, you don't even get to visit castle town.

Sometimes it feels Toby doesn't even like stories or games, dedicating so much of his time and effort telling the world about his weird obsession against completionism.

>>3854380
>dedicating to mock the idea of grinding and senseless violence
you attribute much more malice to his intentions than he's shown in action, especially with how much hes hammered home the topics of sincerity and creativity as virtues themselves. you're making something personal that isn't

>you're making something personal that isn't.
That describes most of the internet these days to be honest.

>>3854383
its especially true these days yeah, any time toby does something there's a lot more people going on about how toby has gotten out of control or that he's insulting them etc. taking a step back, toby still seems to interact in the same way. even if he's changed his writing style it still has that undercurrent of trying to express something genuinely but mixed with that old internet silliness

>>3854381
How am I supposed to feel about him leaving a message making fun of data miners in the Xbox port, or when he made fun of poeple who read too much into random posts by him, when he very bluntly encouraged this sort of behavior in the past AND profited from it as well?

And how I am supposed to feel about "You don't like looking at this sort of thing" about the Mike pinboard? (And no, don't fucking start going on with "but it's about Asgore" lore shit when the set up of that whole sequence is clearly saying something very specific)

Even shit like Ralsei's hat being lost forever.

At this point I can assure you that "doing romantic routes with fictional characters is evil" will be one of the main take aways of the weird route, too.

>>3854384
>toby still seems to interact in the same way

At the end of the day, I agree. Everything he is doing with Deltarune is stuff he pulled in Undertale and even the halloween hack, in UT it just was more subtle and left to the very end.

>There are two endings, but they both eventually end up the same way. It's all a big joke on the player.
>By "stop" he means "turn off the game," and that's all you can do. Anything you play is your own fault for playing, and that's the only real choice you can make.
>People were kind of wondering why I did that. It's because games nowadays always make you feel so empowered when you're really not choosing anything. My game makes it very clear that you are empowered when you aren't choosing anything, really, and it feels awful. It makes you feel cheated. And I think that's pretty good, because that's exactly what I set out to do.

>>3854387
>How am I supposed to feel about him leaving a message making fun of data miners in the Xbox port, or when he made fun of poeple who read too much into random posts by him
by recognizing that he's poking fun without hatred. you can give someone shit about something you dont actually dislike/hate them over.

>And how I am supposed to feel about "You don't like looking at this sort of thing" about the Mike pinboard?
thats very very clearly over asgore due to the hint about the board you see when looking in asgores shops back window. the sequence is multipurposed, its a joke about fantheories going off the rails because fantheories DO go off the rails, and again thats the kind of stuff he grew up around, fan theories lose touch and start getting wacky and thats half the fun of fan theories, but then the scene also has that quick reaction about not liking it when you also find out that asgore has something like that in the back of his store. a scene can have multiple actively true meanings and im holding to that interpretation.

>>3854390
>a scene can have multiple actively true meanings
But one of then is the most overt in the immediate context of that scene.

The "fan theories going off the rails" are a big part of the reason he barely has to spend money advertising his games, and considering how he often delivered on those theories and expectations with contradictions, sarcasm or straight up nothing, it comes off as profoundly ungrateful for the people who enabled him to live his dream.

>>3854392
>it comes off as profoundly ungratefu
it comes off that way if you get delusional about whats actually happening here. again its clearly just poking fun. he very obviously likes the way fans go crazy with ideas for the games, his comments about creating about doing stuff with his game world or without, you're attributing spite where there is absolutely none, especially how when right after that scene theres the giant mike that immediately implies "but what If there IS something at play here?".

>>3854396
Well, all that remains to this discussion is to WAIT and see how the fan reception will be for the remaining chapters.

I just don't see a scenario for Deltarune where the conclusion isn't at least very divisive, and at worse it will be an ugly backlash (which Toby himself might expect, given he once said something about his ending not being the kind to have mass appeal.)

>>3854406
>where the conclusion isn't at least very divisive,
I do agree with this 100 percent. I'm enjoying deltarune, but its not going to be undertale 2 in terms of how it impacted me.

>>3854365
>A whole interesting premise and mystery being thrown into the garbage because, for some reason I may never comprehend, artistic types think rehashing a trite tirade about escapism and the nature of fiction is better than that
I don't know how you didn't see the escapism and nature of fiction angles from day one? The entirety of chapter 1 is a retelling of Alice in Wonderland with added angst.

>>3854342
might be doing it as a style choice because of Clover being a cowboy and all that

>>3854408
I do feel Chapter 1 had a bigger impact on me than Undertale, since I was there for it day 1.
I've kinda started treating each chapter like it's own game with how disconnected they all are from each other in style and release date, despite it not being the intention.

>>3854414
Believe it or not, I do enjoy these stories by taking them at face value. I was too busy laughing with Lancer or trying really hard to beat up Jevil to think about any of that in 2018.

>>3854380
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think this was an abrupt change or some act of spite. I think this was Toby's plan all along, and we just mistook his intentions. Remember, chapter 1 was originally meant to be the demo, and the rest of the game was meant to be part of the full release. Then because of how long things were taking he released a second demo. This demo had to remain light hearted and fun so it wouldn't show the game's hand too early and spoil all the twists. The we had the [WAIT] and Toby felt like he needed to include chapter 3 to fill the role that chapter 2 would have filled emotionally, being the fun that happens before everything goes to shit. So it gave the impression of this being a game about fun adventures, and even maybe accidentally made it that way, when really Toby always meant it to be a very serious story about these themes interspersed with silly moments of levity.

This is like if you read the first few chapters of the Lord Of the Rings, then were forced to wait five years for the rest. So you spend this whole time thinking its going to be a fun fantasy story like the last one with all these new characters, and get attached to your ideas of where it could go, only for Frodo to get stabbed by a cursed sword, Gandalf to die, and the magic to go out of the world.

>>3854435
Funny you mentioned LotR because I felt the movies were a bit of a let down to me. I went in expecting the prototypical fantasy RPG story and Fellowship was that, but the other two movies did a hard turn into a medieval war movie that happened to feature fantasy elements.
I don't think it was bad but it was quite shocking.

>>3854314
Hi, yeah my early chapters sorta blow, and they are kinda just Clover speedrunning since they've seen all this shit before (up until they leave Snowdin at least), sorry about that.
The early chapters are all just set-up for stuff down the road, really.

Apologies for how comically lopsided the chapter lengths are too. Things do kick off for real once Kanako comes into the picture. It's a lot easier for me to write stuff when there's multiple characters travelling together, rather than just one guy.


>>3854342
I prefer using the metric system normally, but I've been using imperial because >Clover.


>>3853775
i also have the yee-hawtism

>>3854387
I don't think Toby meant any of those things in a mean spirited manner. We've just become so invested in these things that we take them personally when we really shouldn't. Mike was just him poking fun at how crazy fan theories can get while saying that he still enjoys them, the Xbox message is just a funny easter egg, and the weird route is a lot more nuanced that that.

>>3854406
>I just don't see a scenario for Deltarune where the conclusion isn't at least very divisive, and at worse it will be an ugly backlash
I agree with that, I just don't think that's because of any malice on Toby's part. Toby has a clear idea of how he wants to make the game, and he intends to make it that way. Meanwhile we have all manner of different ideas of what the game should be, almost all of which can't be what Toby has in mind, and we are very invested in the game, to the point that the game not going how we want feels a lot worse than it should.

You mentioned the hat earlier. We know from concept art that the hat was never meant to be part of Ralsei's design to begin with, and it just exists for that scene at the end of chapter 1. So when Toby removed it, he thought nothing of it, and later joked about it never coming back. I think he just doesn't know how much that hat means to some people.

Think about it from Toby's perspective, what reason would you have to think that taking a character's hat off would hurt some people to this extent? How would you even know that it has?

>>3854427
>Believe it or not, I do enjoy these stories by taking them at face value
I would consider that stuff to be face value, with how obvious it was. Its a story about people getting sucked into fantasy worlds made from real life objects and being forced to fight against these worlds to close them, all the while the characters are using these adventures to escape their real lives. That had to lead somewhere.

>>3854441
I actually liked the medieval war elements the best. The fantasy elements depressed me since they were all about the death of middle Earth and its magic.

The Hobbit was much more a prototypical fantasy adventure. The live action movies suck though. Either read it or watch the animated one (ideally both).

>>3854457
I get DR is his auteur game, I don't get why he didn't make it more clear from the start, other than the financial gain from people who just wanted more UT.
>what reason would you have to think that taking a character's hat off would hurt some people to this extent?
The fact it was even mentioned in the way it was, makes me believe he is aware to some extent that some people didn't like how Ralsei actually looks.

>>3854458
I just got as sucked into the Card Kingdom as the characters got.

>>3854459
I plan to read The Hobbit eventually. Though I have an impression it has more in common with traditional fairy tale stories than modern fantasy adventures. I'm still in search for the best representation of the idea people have on the genre.

deltatraveler is back in development https://deltatraveler.vyletbunni.com/news/20251005/
seems they scrapped section 7 or are heavily changing it, and might revisit older sections

>>3854387
What is it with people imagining that Toby does everything with malicious intent after the 3&4 release?
Weeb tourists think he's trying to filter his western fans by posting in japanese sometimes, shotafags think he's trying to filter his non-pedophile fans by being friends with omocat, hardcore Mike theorizers think he secretly hates his fans, and people apprehensive about the Weird Route think he's gonna punish his fans for playing the game.
It's so parasocial. How the hell do you get parasocial for someone who tweets twice a month and hasn't made a public appearance in 10 years?

>>3854461
>I get DR is his auteur game, I don't get why he didn't make it more clear from the start, other than the financial gain from people who just wanted more UT.
He did though. He's been very clear since Halloween 2018 that this is his dream game. He intended to make it exactly as he imagined it, no matter how much time and effort that took, and he acknowledged that it wouldn't be like Undertale.

>The fact it was even mentioned in the way it was, makes me believe he is aware to some extent that some people didn't like how Ralsei actually looks.
Sure he probably thought some people disliked it, but I don't think he knew how mad it made some people. I say this as a person who loved the hat, hates whitesei, and hated that line. I don't think Toby knew just how much we hated it.

>I just got as sucked into the Card Kingdom as the characters got.
I remember when I first watched a playthrough of Deltarune on launch (it was midnight on a school day, I was thoroughly over Undertale at the time, and did not feel like downloading it) my second reaction to the game was "this looks like some pretentious arthouse bullshit", the first was making columbine jokes about Kris and Susie.

Sure eventually I got drawn in to the characters and their journey, but from the start I could see this was a lot more "artistic" than Undertale. It was a lot more open about it having serious themes it was trying to cover.

>I'm still in search for the best representation of the idea people have on the genre.
That stereotype doesn't really exist. Its just the result of a million different stories with their own unique styles getting mashed together and flanderized in pop culture. The closest you'll get to that is Dungeons and Dragons, and it sucks, at least from a writing perspective. Though that's more just to leave room for you to write your own story for your campaign.

>>3854475
The game attracts autists and encourages them to be more autistic.

We should do another thread. I wasn't done.

>>3854482
>>>/v/722541817

>>3854468
That was an awfully fast turnaround considering how resigned the last update sounded. I somehow get the feeling this renewed moxie won't last.

>>3854475
It's less parasocial and more dreading over how the game is effectively being held hostage by Toby.

UT/early-DR was an experience like no other, and the one person on Earth who can make it will probably not take the direction I wanted, and no one else will ever pick up the slack.

It's even more painful because I have no idea what he actually plans to do. It's like years of expecting to get kicked in the balls at any moment.

I guess it's like how some Star Wars fans want to strangle George Lucas.

>>3854476
My take away from chapter 1 was "this is going to be just like Undertale but bigger and with actual evil characters (i.e. King)". Oh boy I was so fucking wrong. I was even wrong about Ut back then. The memories from that Halloween mean a lot to me and I'm so scared it will get buried by how much I'm not happy with this game.

Fuckin' janny gave me a three-day for posting a single off topic image, after already giving me a 14 minute ban for it.
Careful what you post in the new thread guys, looks like the jannies have their eyes on it.

>>3854519
the fat robas set them off I guess

>>3854522
Yep. That's a shame, there were actually some good ongoing discussions there that I was participating in.
The 14 minute ban makes sense, but why a three-day on top of that?

>>3854524
janitors are a fickle bunch

>>3854531
I'll take it over full on just nuking our threads, though my condolences to anon

>>3854533
Yeah, I'd rather the thread doesn't get nuked too, I just wish I could participate in it again.

While I'm locked in the hyperbolic time chamber, could someone at least tell that one guy that Sans actually does seem to care about responsibility, and gives you varying levels of shit for killing different amounts of people, but generally seems understanding when you kill in self defense against people who are really trying hard to kill you, like Undyne, Mettaton, and Asgore?
That was the last reply I was typing before the ban hit, I just want that guy to know all that.

>>3854537
I was talking about how sans was lacking, and how he didn't do "enough" to mitigate what frisk had to go through compared to what he could. im not saying sans is evil or something, but he did have an element of complacency due to the situation he was in, but in a post barrier world, thats not going to be an excuse that could avoid making someone feel guilty. if frisk is fucked up from having died X number of times, sans would probably likely know he could have done more to help. there's still a lot about the inner world of sans mind that we dont know, but from what we've seen, and the longer they get to stay on the surface the more I think such a guilt could set in.I mean faced with a kid thats pretty much broken after giving you and everyone you know "the whole world" is it reasonable to feel any other way if you have an idea of what caused it?

>>3854538
Oh, sup.
I was actually just wanting to address the part of your post (assuming it's yours) where you said "its hard to say if sans himself even believes that it is someones responsibility to do the right thing if they have the power to, or if he only says that shit out of spite because his brother was killed (understandable)", because I think there's enough information in-game to go off of to indicate that Sans actually does care and is just kinda arbitrary about it.

>>3854542
thats fair, he just seems to be really tied up on not having enough energy to care because of the obvious situation at hand, so when he throws that at us, it feels like its more out of disdain than actually trying to make a moral stand, if that kind of makes sense. I do think he has that view you're talking about, and some of his dialogue in the silly content from the stream honestly despite how silly it was, gives me the impression that sans actually doesn't like fighting in the broad sense. Still I stand by, if he's the kind of character we think he is, wouldnt he start to feel like he could have done more to help frisk than he did when the surface lasts longer and longer? he's not all knowing but if he starts to think that maybe surface life is going to stick, then wouldn't that philosophy ring a little hollow in his own head? surely he could have delayed undyne more or SOMETHING that would make him second guess if he did the right things underground.

>>3854543
>wouldnt he start to feel like he could have done more to help frisk than he did when the surface lasts longer and longer?
Eh, maybe. I mean, literally speaking, yes, he could've done more by just grabbing Frisk the second they walked out into Snowdin and just sending them straight to Asgore, but speaking more logically, I feel like Sans already helped Frisk a decent bit. He does tell you about how blue attacks work, and he sorta tangentially warns you about Flowey in the Grillby's conversation, so I'd say he was doing more for Frisk than some of the others were.
Also, and this may sound a bit harsh, but you could maybe also argue that Frisk dying over and over again was necessary in order for them to build the right mental state of being able to push back against Flowey and Asgore. Like, imagine if Frisk really had made it through the underground with Sans' help, never really having to face a difficult challenge, or never dying at any point.
There's no way that version of Frisk would be prepared to fight Asgore, or Photoshop Flowey after that, it'd be a nightmare for them.
Just like Gohan needing to be roughed up a bit before unlocking SSJ2, Frisk needed to be put through the wringer a bit more before they could make it past Asgore and Flowey.
And Sure, some people can beat all of UT pacifist in one go without dying, but we're talking in-universe here. Possible, but highly unlikely.
Anyway, that's most of what I have to say about this.
Have fun in the thread I made, I'll just be here. Locked away.

i am working on a /v/ the musical song based on undertale fan content and toby's comments during the anniversary live stream: >>>/v/722550715
though this thread should know about it in case anyone has any ideas

>>3854554
>so I'd say he was doing more for Frisk than some of the others were.
is he the kind of person that would be able to avoid feelings of guilt because of that? doing more than other people, is that enough when he could have done more?
>Also, and this may sound a bit harsh, but you could maybe also argue that Frisk dying over and over again was necessary in order for them to build the right mental state
its not because you can make it there without dying until you reach that point (lets be fair, sans couldnt have done shit about deaths against flowey) and things go the same.
theres a lot of value in saying that without the journey that frisk may not have been capable so I mean, yes that IS fair, but would sans as a person be able to look at a kid broken from experiencing death repeatedly and feel guilt free because "eh, I did what I could" when he was capable of doing more? even if him tipping his hand to much was something he never would have done, I think there'd be some degree of self loathing on the matter. if he dislikes fighting so much, I think he'd also feel like shit the more he started to care on the surface. I know you're saying that its unlikely that a no death situation happens, but Im just saying, the fact that you can make it through without a death and events still play out means to me that at least that much is cannon, that the deaths weren't a necesarry part of the journey.

you'd have the rest of the monsters frisk befriended not having any real understanding of whats wrong with frisk, from their perspective the kid may have been one way when they met him and then a few hours later when the kid broke the barrier he's a shell of his former self, and sans doesn't know matter of factly, but if hes aware that anomalies are a thing, he'd probably have a good hunch over why the kid is suddenly so fucked up by the time he broke the barrier. I just think that based on the personality we've seen him show, he'd feel like shit over it

>>3854558
>I just think that based on the personality we've seen him show, he'd feel like shit over it
Maybe. I think it really depends on whether or not the pacifist route was the first route Frisk went for, and Sans can arguably find that out for himself, depending on how much detail he can see about other timelines created by the anomaly.
I think if Sans saw that Frisk had done a few murder-heavy neutral routes, or a genocide route at any point, I think he might see Frisk's broken state at the end of a pacifist route and think, "alright, I'm glad you did the right thing, and I'm sorry it took so much out of you to get there, but I think we're about even as far as suffering goes.".
If Frisk went straight for a pacifist route on their first journey through the underground, maybe Sans would feel a little more sorry about it, but he really doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to beat himself up over something like that.
In fact, the only time we ever see Sans voice his feelings about a personal regret he has of a similar nature is when he says "this is what happens when guys like me take it easy", in the neutral ending where you kill all of the underground's potential rulers.
I think Sans knows just a bit too much about the red soul to ever really feel sorry for it on an interpersonal level, even if the person it's attached to isn't necessarily 100% responsible for it's actions (through Frisk never really acts against the player's decisions at any point and always acts according to how they've been acting throughout the rest of the route so far whenever they do have an independent choice to make, so that doesn't really factor in here).

>>3854559
I actually take that "this is what happens when guys like me take it easy" thing to angle this. he can say something like that when it ends poorly for all the people he cares about, so if he starts caring about the kid in the same way, and I assume he cares about frisk again because asriel talks about how "they all care about you so much", then couldn't that "when guys like me take it easy" also apply here? I also think he may be the type of person to get in his own head about things just from the fact at how much he's given up due to knowledge of whats going on, cause when you think about it, we have no evidence he remembers the different timelines, but just knowing that there are timelines is enough for him to just not give a shit. thats the kind of conclusion someone who overthinks things gets to, whereas someone like papyrus you can guarantee even if he knew about timelines he'd still get at it like he normally does.

>>3854509
>, and no one else will ever pick up the slack.
did you forget where we are?

Be the change you want to see, anon.

>>3854537
You have a static ip or something?

>>3854563
Hm? Eh, not sure I feel like trying to ban evade here, it seems like more trouble than it's worth, and I'd like to not get permabanned.

>>3854564
I'd hardly call deleting cookies and resetting a router trouble, but fair enough.

>>3854560
I think the way he threatens Frisk in the MTT resort may be a pretty solid indicator on his feelings towards them. Regardless of his ability to actually follow through on that threat outside of a genocide route, I think Sans just knows too much about what Frisk is capable of to ever really feel sorry for them.
And while Sans may not have direct memories from other timelines (though we know for a fact the various characters get a vague feeling of deja vu whenever a particular sequence of events is repeated right after it already happened), knowing about other timelines and the fact that everything can just be reset without you knowing about it is a hell of a downer, trust me.
This, combined with the fact that Sans may have just been permanently sent to this world from the world of DR, which may or may not have anything to do with the red soul depending on how the game shakes out, and I get the feeling that Sans' worries are generally on a bigger scale than worrying about individual people, save for those he *really* cares about, like Papyrus or Toriel.
With how Sans acts towards Frisk in most of his interactions, I think the most accurate description of how he sees them would be similar to how he views them in the genocide route, just not hostile.
That while Frisk did the right thing, they didn't necessarily do it because it was the right thing to do, but because they could, and therefore "had" to. Most people don't do the genocide route because they really hate the characters, or because they genuinely think it's the right thing to do, they do it because they can, and because they want to see what happens if they do.
From the perspective of someone trapped on the inside of the anomaly, I think it'd be pretty easy to adopt that sort of view of things.

>>3854566
Alright, maybe it's not actually that big of a deal, but I'm pretty sure they'd still be able to tell that I'm the same guy just from where my IP address actually points to, and like I said, I'd rather not get permabanned.

>>3854568
my gut feels like this is misreading sans. when he says in his fight that he had originally hoped they could be friends, I just have a feeling thats not bullshit. we also don't know if the red soul is at fault for why he's here, because after all in DR we're along for the ride a good amount, there's a solid possibility that since the world is covered in darkness on a game over, that we're the number one ward against the bad shit happening despite being in a very unwilling vessel and having the ability to go off the rails really badly. I personally always took the "you'd be dead where you stand" meaning he'd have done his job as a guard when he first saw you in snowdin if toriel hadn't asked him to make that promise (I think its a bluff honestly since he hints at you being the anomaly as early as this). all his talk about good laughs and all that make me think that he really would rather just have a peaceful time with frisk or the anomaly, and just stopped believing its going to happen "just give up, I did".

>>3854570
This is an unrelated thing, but IP addresses aren't the doxx tool people think they are. IPs are shared between hundreds, maybe even thousands of people in an area. And the IP only narrows your location down to a county or city, sometimes even broader than that.

Yet people seem to think that you can just find a n IP and instantly look up someone's full legal name and home address.

>>3854572
>he really would rather just have a peaceful time with frisk or the anomaly, and just stopped believing its going to happen "just give up, I did".
Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. I don't think Sans hates Frisk, or even dislikes them, I'm saying Sans' knowledge of what/who Frisk is, or more importantly, what's attached to them, may get in the way of Sans viewing Frisk like a person who exists on the same scale as him and his world, which would then in turn prevent him from really feeling "sorry" for them.
For everyone else in the world of UT, for Toriel, Papyrus, Undyne, Alphys, Mettaton, Asgore, etc, they can all look at Frisk and see an ordinary, if slightly odd, human child. Sans can't do that. Even if he's not looking at a person responsible for killing all of his friends and family, he's still looking at someone with nigh uncontested control over his world, someone who can, and potentially has done just about every terrible thing he could ever think of, and probably a lot that he can't.
Even if Sans can appreciate what Frisk does for him and their 'friends", they exist at too high a level for anyone to really relate to them. Even Chara says they flat-out don't understand you once you complete your second genocide route.
Trying to be friends with Frisk would be like an individual ant trying to be friends with a human. They simply exist at scales too different for either of their feelings to really translate over like that.
While I don't agree with the order of events, I think this video does a pretty decent job at depicting how Sans (and Papyrus) may actually view Frisk and the anomaly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffmccP-l66U

>>3854576
>Trying to be friends with Frisk would be like an individual ant trying to be friends with a human.
I think this only applies to a frisk that did multiple routes through the underground.that sense of detached perspective wouldn't come to a frisk that "simply" went through the underground on a pacifist route. they would have the power you're talking about yeah, but the gap between them as people MENTALLY would not be that way. maybe sans would assume its like that no matter what because he cant truly know what actions the time traveler had done, but that would be due to how he analyzes everything and comes to the conclusion that because its possible he needs to treat it as if its the case. papyrus though we know enough about him to know that he would treat frisk as a person no matter what they had done.

but still that all ignores the lines about how sans talked about wanting to be friends with the anomaly, and yes that could just be lip service, but something about it strikes me as sincere. if he thinks its like the ant to a human thing, while still wanting to be friends with him then it feels off. Also that dialogue as you mentioned is from doing the second genocide run, which to be completely fair, yes after you've gone that far you really aren't the same.
I can see it playing out the way you're talking about if sans approaches it as just assuming that all possibilities that could have happened behind the curtain of alternate times must have passed, but its just as likely that he's just wary because he has no idea what you've been up to, he catches on if you "look like you've seen this before" so if that never happens then I think the more he gets attached to the surface the more likely he could start sympathizing with frisk.

>>3854579
>sans talked about wanting to be friends with the anomaly
I think Sans' dialogue about wanting to be friends in the genocide route is more likely him just saying that he wished things turned out more peacefully instead of the way they did. He's already seen you kill just about everyone he knows and cares about, I doubt he sincerely actually wants to get to know you even in a timeline where you haven't killed everyone you could get your hands on. It's not about being "friends", it's about appeasing you and making sure this doesn't happen again.
>so if that never happens then I think the more he gets attached to the surface the more likely he could start sympathizing with frisk.
But that's only *if* nothing happens to make Sans think Frisk hasn't used their power like that, and who knows how Sans could go about detecting that. Plus, and while it's not strictly canon, the pacifist Sans fight from the 10th anniversary streams include a joke where Sans sees that you remember how to deal with blue attacks, and then says "That's all you remember, right?" before the fight continues. Even if this isn't canon, I think it's a pretty interesting look at how Sans probably thinks of Frisk most of the time. Even if Frisk hasn't done a genocide route, from Sans' perspective, there's no way to prove that one way or the other, so it's in his best interest to assume that they have and act accordingly. Even when Frisk hasn't done anything hostile of any kind, Sans still knows what they're capable of, and assumes that they have.
Like I said, regardless of what Frisk may or may not have actually done, Sans knowing what they *can* do probably prevents them from getting too close to them anyway.

>>3854581
>it's about appeasing you and making sure this doesn't happen again.
I just dont feel like that because he's not talking about what he wants to have happen if you turn back time. he's talking about what he hoped happen instead of all of this. hes not trying to be buddy buddy, or suggest going to being buddy buddy now.
>acts accordingly
acting accordingly on if sans assumes he did, or if he assumes its possible feel like two seperate thought processes sans could have, and yet how could we tell which one he has from the outside looking in.
if he approaches it that he "could" have done everything then maybe he could get closer, but if its that he "has" done everything then thats a different game

>>3854582
>I just dont feel like that because he's not talking about what he wants to have happen if you turn back time. he's talking about what he hoped happen instead of all of this. hes not trying to be buddy buddy, or suggest going to being buddy buddy now.
If you spare him when he spares you, the text you see after you die says "If we're really friends, you won't come back.". After the whole, get dunked on thing. This, to me, is an indication that Sans is trying to get you to reset, and undo everything you've done so far. I mean, he pretty much explicitly says as much later in the fight, but right here, he's trying to get you to reset the timeline with the idea of being friends, but at that exact point in time, he doesn't *actually* want to be friends with you, he just wants you to undo all the damage you've caused.
As it stands, based on in-game and other official information, I very sincerely doubt Sans actually has any particular personal feelings towards Frisk whatsoever, given what he knows about them that others don't. Sans making a joke about the genocide route in that pacifist battle from the 10th anniversary stream seems like an indication that Sans is well aware of everything you could've done, and likely treats Frisk as though they *have* done everything they could've done with their powers, but is still willing to be amicable with them in spite of that. Outside of that though, I really don't think Sans would care too much about Frisk being potentially mentally scarred at the end of a pacifist route, other than the possibility of that affecting their future uses of their power.
In every pacifist route of UT, Sans is one of the only characters in the game who maintains a certain distance from Frisk. You can only ever learn so much about him, when most of the rest of the cast have opportunities to hang out with them and learn all about them. Sans very specifically keeps his distance from Frisk, even when they're alone and could talk freely, 1/2

>>3854586
>if we're really friends, you wont come back
honestly, at that point it doesn't even sound like he's asking for a reset. he's asking for you to go away forever with that wording. not even clinging onto hope of people being brought back.

>>3854582
2/2
And that's for a reason. He knows what Frisk is, and what they're capable of, and he doesn't want to get too close to them. Even when you hang out with him at Grillby's or at the MTT resort, the interactions with him are never quite as in-depth or personal as the interactions with the other cast members in their side quests.
The air of mystery around him isn't a mistake, it's something he's doing on purpose, because he knows what a massive problem Frisk is. The only other character who explicitly tries to control what Frisk knows about them to that extent is Flowey, and he drops that facade at some point in the pacifist route. Sans never does. If Sans is more willing to keep his distance from Frisk emotionally than Flowey is, I think that says something about how he sees them.

>>3852004 (OP)
DELTATRAVELER LIVES!
https://deltatraveler.vyletbunni.com/news/20251005/
TL;DR Section 1 (Undertale ruins) and Section 3 (Underfell) will be completely overhauled. Section 1 will include elements of UTY's ruins and Section 3 will use the dev's idea for a reboot of the original GG!UNDERFELL tentatively called VB!UNDERFELL.

>>3854590
We already knew that btw.
dont forget to mention that deltatraveler's hard mode is gonna be removed and that arena mode and deltatraveler yellow were scrapped

>>3854590
Oh boy, are they keeping in that part of the genocide route where Susie lets you kill a man in cold blood because you were mildly annoying enough for her to quit holding you back?

>>3854591
Yeah, the removal and scrapping were mentioned two devlogs ago. I was not aware of the section overhauls until today.

>>3854587
Anyway, I get where you're coming from with wanting a character you like to behave or think a certain way, but that's just not the case with Sans.
Sans is ambivalent but amicable towards Frisk at best, and actively hates them and wants them to die at worst. It's also probably not a coincidence that the neutral endings where Sans spends the most time talking to them are the endings where Sans is one of the only people left *to* talk to them. In every other ending he usually only talks for a little while before passing the phone to someone else, and in a few other endings he barely talks at all.
I think the real facts of the matter are that based on his interactions with Frisk compared to everyone else's interactions with Frisk, Sans almost certainly doesn't actually like Frisk very much even in the best timelines, so I really don't think he'd feel particularly sorry for them if they were mentally scarred at the end of a true pacifist route, even if it was the first route they did, and even if they never reset. He might not explicitly hate them, and he might not be hostile towards them, but it really doesn't seem to be the case that he actually likes them, or likes interacting with them anymore than he deems necessary.
Sans is just that kind of person.

>>3854562
It's not that simple.
Writing someone like Spamton takes a very specific kind of genius that you don't see often, and Toby is one of those rare geniuses. He may suck at naturalistic dialogue but not many can replicate the kind of fluff he does without coming off as lame or obnoxious.

Plus, It's not a "be the change you wanna see" situation because I want engage a story like from the audience POV, not the author POV. It's a completely different experience.

>>3854475
because woody theorists

Not being able to post in /v/ while the pregnancy guy is back and taking requests is the most unbearable agony I have ever felt.

>>3854590
What I've seen of the rehaul isn't that promising. I fear that the cringekino will be neutered and leave only cringe behind. I'mma miss C A T H A R T I C a lot.

>>3854720
what do you want to tell him?

>>3854720
Just use your phone on data if you're that desperate. That's assuming you're not phone posting right now.

>>3854668
Well I'm perfectly content with making and playing fangames even if Toby drops the ball hard. If you can't learn to enjoy something despite the wishes of its creator then I don't think there's much helping you in current year. Like chapter 1 and UT aren't going anywhere, and there's all these great fangames to follow if DR goes to shit.

There's even a guy making a fangame in the style of SURVEY_PROGRAM in these threads.

>>3854720
Eh it could be worse.
At least now you don't have to be in that deltarune thread with that guy from /vg/ having a full blown meltdown because he got caught samefagging and crossposting.

two quality threads this week.
>>3854906
then even more strongly I am thankful for the threads we had.

I'll repost here. Taking reqs for pixel art. Results will be posted here.

I suck at posing and perspective, so I won't be able to do complicated requests

>>3852004 (OP)
Reposting the art Sig did since its related to the fangames

>>3854720
The drawanon literally just take requests and draws them lol
They've drawn wholesome stuff without pregnancy as well.
If you don't want to see them draw pregnancy then just send them a wholesome draw request.
Of course you can't do that now, since the threads ended.

>>3854907
Yeah honestly dude is NOT coping well with fumbling the whole ralsei dead kid thing and it turning out that he was basically alone in people actively upset by it.
Kind of sad, really, about the whole "thread is full of some mentally ill guy from /vg/ tweaking out and you can't talk about Deltarune" thing.
I ran out of my basically nonexistent sympathy for the guy when he was flooding threads back in june.

>>3854908
was the zenith martlet protecting clover one out of the wheelhouse or is that a possibility?

>>>/v/722592370
Didn't see this in time to reply. You've spurred me to re-examine my plot outline, and it turns out there's a great opportunity for a solo Kris "calm interlude in a strange mental inner world" at the end of chapter 6. Thanks for the ideas, I'll see where I can go with this.

>>3854913
Oh that guy? Yeah, he's really annoying, but it can't be helped since the /v/ jannies don't like deltarune and want the threads to be awful. Kind of a shame too since there was a little drawfaggin and OC.

>>3854916
I'll try. May not be able to do it, but I'll give it an honest attempt.

>>3854928
awesome, I'm thankful for the attempt. Just something in some way zartlet trying to protect clover would be cool to see

>>3854910
I think he wanted to make a fetish art request, and couldn't because he's got a 3 day on /v/

>>3854932
Oh lol rip for them I guess.
Better luck next time.

What is a good place to even look for fangames?
I found Undertale yellow when the demo was posted years ago and that one Ed guy showed up again

>>3854947
Most are posted on Gamejolt. There should be Undertale and Deltarune tags that you can look through.
That's not to vouch for the quality or completeness of what you may find, though

>>3854592
Honestly, i wish deltatraveler was like deltarune's weird route in that itd require you to work around kris's restrictions in order to PROCEED instead of everybody getting lazy and just FIGHTing everybody because you told them to, imagine having to escape kris' soul into another vessel temporally or choosing a "Think about Noelle" choice in order to command her to freeze an enemy that kris and susie wouldnt let you kill

>>3852004 (OP)
Why does Ceroba NSFW feature very little of Chujin or (even less) Starlo? I mean it’s a good thing, but it’s surprising

>>3854969
Chujin is kill, and people want to be the roba's wife.
Incidentally hilarious on that one guy's profile someone's there called "Ceroba's husband".

>>3854969
nobody gives a fuck about chujin

>>3854969
people want to fuck the roba, not see her be fucked (by non self inserts)

>>3854975
this might explain why Clover is used more often with Ceroba

…and why Chujin and Starlo are being dom’d in a good portion of art when theyre with Ceroba

>>3854971
>Incidentally hilarious on that one guy's profile someone's there called "Ceroba's husband".
Who?

>>3854979
>this might explain why Clover is used more often with Ceroba
Are they? I usually see Clover paired with Kanako, or sometimes Martlet, but almost never Ceroba outside of some fucked up AO3 fics.

>>3854879
Huh.
Good point.

>>3854969
Most people either want to fuck Ceroba or fuck Chujin. They don't want to watch someone else fuck them.

>>3854969
Yeah, what basically every other anon said. Ceroba's one of those characters that seems to have a weird hold on people, where people want her for themselves more than anything.
Having another character present gets in the way of that, unless they have so little "character" to them that they can be easily projected onto, but Chujin and Starlo have too rigidly defined personalities for them to fit that role too well.

>>3854985
That Yagi guy they're talking about in the deltarune threads sometimes

>>>/v/722593325
>>>/v/722594454

I didn't manage to catch this before the thread archived, so I guess I'll reply here?

Yeah I just really wanted to give Clover a bunch of different guns.
The full explanation for how they got the firearms is being saved for a gag scene at the very end.

Also Clover doesn't have knowledge of all the timelines, just full memories of Genocide/Vengeance, and a few tiny bits of the other routes presented to him as vague visions.

The reason why he's so busted is because he absorbed all the cumulative growth from 10 years' worth of runs all at once.

All that stuff is gone over in Ch2.


>>>/v/722591881
I attempted to lampshade the whole 'Clover feels like he should be Orange soul with the stuff he's doing' bit by occasionally saying his normal yellow glow turned orange or gold, and with the 'stand stat chart' with his second highest 'stat' being Bravery, but I guess that didn't come across well enough.

I will not be stopping the anime though, I find it too fun to not continue running with it

>>3852094
So far yeah its more a romance visual novel than an earthbound clone

>>3855034
hate how that discord shit keeps getting brought up by some halfwit twat too chickenshit to DM somebody. no, I don't care if it actually isn't on discord, its discord.

>>3855045
I am currently at chapter 8, I can definitely tell you're fond of guns so far.

my only complaint and this is a personal autism, is that martlet wasn't the one to end the fight first. she's actually pretty brave from what we've seen of her, and I think her showing mercy first is one of the things that clover respects about her. that said its a nitpick because I know this is a "very unique" circumstance. I'm chugging through chapters today while trying to draw a martlet and was caught off guard that I was already this many in. based on the word count Im assuming the chapters start getting longer?

>>3855048
Pick a lane dude, either it's one dude (wrong), or a discord group talking about it (also wrong).
Totally agree with the chicken shit thing though, honestly I wish someone would just get that shit over with and talk to him out of the dozen nerds that care about that shit one of them has to not be too much of a bottom to go talk to a nerd. I genuinely don't get what they're all scared about.

I automatically ignore any post talking about yagi because it sounds like a huge fucking waste of time and that there are "sides" to this is absolutely incomprehensible to me.

>>3855053
I dont careeeee I dont fucking care how many people are involved in it I hate how it keeps getting threads derailed over some random fucktard on the internet and then having another dipshit ask what the fuck is a yagi since they're another faceless literal who on the fucking internet

>>3854509
>It's like years of expecting to get kicked in the balls at any moment.
You have described exactly how I feel waiting for chapter 5 to release.

>>3855046
My memory for thread personalities is suboptimal, so each time I hear of that guy I imagine things like pic related.
Kris would play the hell out of that game.

>>3855050
Yeaaaahhhhh, Martlet...
I'm gonna be completely honest, I screwed up big time when using her, I didn't change enough about her considering the ten year time skip, the way I handled her is definitely my biggest regret so far.

Anyways, yeah, I do agree that Martlet is shown to be pretty brave in UTY itself. But I also don't think she'd be dumb enough to keep trying her luck against a heavily-armed fully-grown human.

And yes, the chapters are comedically lopsided in terms of length, sorry about that lmao.

>>3855054
I mean it doesn't really seem like there's sides either, unless you count people that do and do not give a shit. Didn't one of the guys who get mad about it help people find more stuff when they actually found the guy last month? They're on the same team but nobody wants to kick the ball into the goal
>>3855056
I mean there's way more of an issue with that one retard from /vg/ spamming the thread over on /v/ with chara crap when people are trying to talk about the deltarune.

>>3855061
its fine, you mentioned several times that the pacing picks up after the early chapters so even if the chapters themselves are going to stretch on im excited to see what it holds. and yeah I dont think martlet would be suicidal about it, it just came across kind of "this is martlet I guess!". it wasn't painful or anything, just compelled me to give my unrequested input

>>3855064
>Didn't one of the guys who get mad about it help people find more stuff when they actually found the guy last month?
I dont know, I just see people arguing about "contact him" or "dont contact him" and my firm belief is again "who fucking cares". but thats more dwelling on it than I want to engage with. if its that important to yall I'm gonna go back to simply not caring about this literal who.

>>3855064
I can be mad at more than one thing at a time. But I don't want to speak any more of it

>>3855067
Same page as you but this shit's not gonna stop unless someone puts a stop to it. Honestly, I'm just glad there's a little more to discuss besides the tree and the fact that QC and the Innkeeper are apparently sisters according to the last newsletter.

>>3855068
I mean I'm just saying ones an overflowing toilet and the other is like, an itch on your back.
Yeah it's all annoying, but ones clearly a problem and the others easy to fix.

>>3855057
One part of me very high on copium wants to believe that Toby will subvert expectations once again and have Chapter 5 be a return to the early formula, full with a main villain and crazy secret boss combo, and a generally adventurous and fun atmosphere, one last time before the end game begins.

The other parts expects it to be 6 hours of Asgore getting cucked.

>>3855087
spoiler alert: it's neither of those

>>3855087
what if its 3 hours of asgore getting cucked, then 3 hours of showing us how asgore really didn't deserve all of this shit this time, but his obsession with setting things right isn't going to get him anywhere because shits just fucked? Toby uses him as whipping boy sure but there's no chance he can't sympathize with someone he put in amons sick as hell armor.

>>3855089
I guess the gang will refuse to engage with the flower world that much because they're too focused on the main quest at this point, plus a chapter 3-esque ending is to be expected since the way the original release schedule implies there is a huge shift from 5 to 6.

>>3855089
Yeah, Toby will surprise with something even worse.

>>3855090
>what if its 3 hours of asgore getting cucked, then 3 hours of showing us how asgore really didn't deserve all of this shit this time, but his obsession with setting things right isn't going to get him anywhere because shits just fucked?
That's just as bad if not worse.

>>3855096
it is going to be pic related

>>3855112
Why is Asgore Joker colored?

>>3855113
He's divorced

>>3855112
surprisingly subtle you're genocides image

>>3855131
needs more elements. Somebody add Gaster.

>>3855138
[Redacted] is right there.

>>3855139
oh fuck oh jesus

>>3855112
i know that expression anywhere

>>3855142
I warned you about the Knight, bro.

I wanted to ask this question in the /v/ thread but didn't get the chance, so I'll ask here for now: why do people think that Ceroba's plan was to take Clover's soul and use it to save Kanako? I'm not asking why people think that that's what her plan *should've* been, that's just a matter of tastes, I'm asking why there are so many people who (supposedly) actually played the game and came away thinking that that's Ceroba's plan actually was. She pretty explicitly says that she lied about having any hope for Kanako's recovery before her boss fight, so why are there so many people who think Ceroba was trying to save Kanako and not just finish Chujin's serum?

>>3855145
she says in her dialogue "unless a miracle takes place at the lab" and going through the steam works when considering the underground takes you near the lab, and then ceroba talks about going to the lab herself. her main plan is clearly to use clovers soul to finish the project sure, but the way she talks and her actions make it sound like she was going to still try and use that shit and hope that kanako got unbroke. in fact thats directly after the statement where she says she lied about kanako. re-read the dialogue, she then says that kanako is the key to finishing chujins work so she's absolutely going to try and use the clovers soul to finish the project using kanako, and thinks its going to take a miracle for that to save her

>>3855145
Do you really want to have this same argument again?

>>3855145
>>3855146
Human souls are the designated miracle macguffins. Its like assuming the Holy Grail can save someone from a bullet wound. You don't have to be told, the magical do everything nature of it is enough.

So people just assume that she either knew that and was banking on that to save her, or just ignored the implication of those lines because it makes more sense if she's doing all this insane shit to get the macguffin to save her dying daughter.

>>3855148
I think going off her dialogue its pretty clear that she's doing this "regardless of if it saves her daughter or not" but logically she would be desperately hoping for that miracle. she wouldn't bother calling it a miracle if she didn't somewhere deep inside think maybe just maybe it could work.

>>3855146
Yeah, she says that it would take a miracle to save Kanako, but her exact wording about it clearly indicates that she means that in the sense that she's given up on Kanako recovering unless something extreme happens, not that she plans on using Clover's soul as a way of saving her.
Unless I'm misremembering, her phrasing was something along the lines of "Unless a miracle takes place at the lab, there's no hope for Kanako.", before she gets back to talking primarily about Chujin's legacy and the serum. She's pretty clearly placing Chujin's work above Kanako's state in terms of priorities here, and that's because she herself has given up on Kanako recovering.
It feels really obvious that that's what's going on there, so it's still weird to me that so many people think that Ceroba was doing all of that to save Kanako.

>>3855147
No, which is why I'm not arguing about whether or not that would've been better, and only asking why so many people misinterpreted what was actually happening there.

>>3855151
>hat she's given up on Kanako recovering unless something extreme happens
anon she is using clovers soul in something that she's also going to be using kanako for, read the rest of what she says, I just went and looked at it "kanako is the key" she's actively going to be using kanakos unconscious body to try and finish this experiment. thats something extreme happening involving kanako, and she calls it a miracle because you only call things like that a miracle when deep down you're hoping for a miracle. she's doing something desperate to finish chujins legacy and hoping deep down that a miracle happens, but shes fucked up everything so bad so far that she doesn't expect a miracle.

she also uses kankos things to strengthen her resolve here which doesn't fully make sense if she has no hope in her heart for kanako, it would be thematically tone deaf and character wise make no sense because shes not fighting "for" kanako or even kanakos memory otherwise, but when she puts on the mask and the mask breaks thats symbolizing the faint hope she has that a miracle could happen, and then that hope shattering and its worse because its all from her own actions and she knows it.
>>3855152
you are only right that she was doing this regardless of if it saved kanako or not, but she very clearly had some forlorn hope that it would in fact do just that.

>>3855151
Its possible for two people to look at the exact same image, in the exact same context, and still see two entirely different things. That's what's happening here. They simply read it differently from you.

Any further explanation beyond that and what you've already seen is extremely difficult, like explaining color to a blind man, because you'll never be able to see out of someone else's eyes, and that's the only way you really can understand that.

>>3855156
I'm a little pressed for time, so I can't grab the screenshots right now, but Ceroba literally says "I'm trying to make the best of what I can" and "She is the key to finishing Chujin's work!" right after each other. She even goes on about Chujin's plan being monsterkind's best hope for survival, she clearly isn't talking about anything to do with saving Kanako herself here.
This isn't a case of other people seeing a perfectly valid interpretation of her words that I'm not seeing, this is a case of those people being flat-out wrong about what she's saying.

>>3855158
you are intentionally seperating lines she has and ignoring how they can connect, and if you are who I think you are considering this topic has come up before in exactly the same way, you started insulting people that didn't see your way last time I saw this play out. I may just be schizoing out here but there is a very logical connection to be made in how she hopes what she is going to do could result in a miracle because it IS something drastic.

>>3855151
people like to think she is doing it for kanako because otherwise it makes ceroba a shitty parent who would rather do her husband's work that doesn't even work instead of saving the last family member she has left, who she isn't even sure is dead yet
but I guess in a way it is a remnant from betaroba's plot

>>3855160
The first four minutes of this video contain all of her pre-fight dialogue, so you can read what I left out between those lines for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_HcLGBocZc&t=1s
Even in-universe that feels like a pretty weird connection to make, given that the previous iterations of the soul essence serum killed Chujin and effectively killed Kanako, so I really don't get where the idea that Clover's soul essence would save her comes from.
I think the most obvious interpretation of the "miracle" line is that she's given up hope on Kanako recovering unless something major happens, but she can still be useful for making the serum even if she'll never live again. I mean, Ceroba even emphasizes the fact that Kanako is a boss monster after the "miracle" line, she pretty clearly intends on using her as a means to an end, rather than her being the end she's working towards.

>>3855163
I JUST watched the video
>>3855155
and made my points here. Saving kanako is not the goal, its very clearly a miracle she hopes for but the goal is finishing chujins research, and that involves doing soul stuff with clovers soul and kanakos body.

>>3855164
>its very clearly a miracle she hopes for but the goal is finishing chujins research
That's what I'm arguing against, her dialogue pretty clearly shows that she *doesn't* have any hope for saving Kanako, and that she's doing this, *entirely* for Chujin's legacy, and not hoping for Kanako's recovery as a side-effect.
Everything she talks about in her pre-fight dialogue is about finishing the project, with the parts pertaining to Kanako being justification that even if she's effectively dead, she can still help finish the serum because she's a boss monster.
She's not saying, "I need Clover's soul to finish the project and maybe also save Kanako", she's saying "Kanako's already past saving, therefore I may as well finish the project using her body". Most of Ceroba's story is about the sunk-cost fallacy, with her pressing forward to try and continue Chujin's work despite how much it's taken from her, having her story be about trying to save Kanako in any capacity completely contradicts that, since that would then imply that she's actually trying to *fix* her situation, which she herself acknowledges she isn't trying to do.

>>3855145
Because it makes more sense than the alternative lol

>>3855158
You said earlier you were just trying to figure to out why people thought it was that way, regardless of whether its true or not, but now you're arguing as though you're trying to convince me that's the wrong way to read it, when I never even said I read it that way, nor that it was the correct way to read it.

Right or wrong, that's how those people read that scene, and that's why they thought Ceroba was trying to save Kanako. No amount of arguing is going to change how people read a scene in the past.

>>3855165
>her dialogue pretty clearly shows that she *doesn't* have any hope for saving Kanako,
then it is a failure in how you are reading it and what happens after. it also doesn't contradict anything because having a wild hope about something that realistically isn't happening is the kind of stuff that got her on this journey of sunk cost in the first place. her actions are also clearly not with the purpose of fixing her situation as I've said the goal was chujins project, but you are ignoring what is right in front of your face in how despite everything thats happened there's still faint hope in her heart. hopes and dreams would not be in her theme if she did not have that hope and its not just the hope of finishing chujins project, its the hope that somehow if she keeps doing all of this that things will turn out right. she denies that hope with her own words, then everything else we see clearly shows that somewhere in her heart that hope is still around.

THEN AFTER THE FIGHT we see martlet talking about investigating the lab and while we know that didn't pan out, at the time ceroba doesn't reject it at all. you are taking statements in a vacuum instead of reading it all as a whole.

>>3855169
Alright, I guess I was just still focused on how people could've gotten that wrong.
I'll go back to arguing with the other guy who's actually arguing about interpretation now.

>>3855172
you dont need to bother, rewatch everything that happens when you have time and then come back. if you think hopes and dreams is solely about chujin and not about everything shes lost as a whole that she wants back even if she knows its not happening realistically then you're willfully disregarding what on the screen.

>>3855170
>despite everything thats happened there's still faint hope in her heart.
There's a faint hope that she could recover *generally*, but she's clearly not doing everything she's doing *because* of that. Nothing about her dialogue indicates that she has any hope of Kanako recovering as a result of what she plans to do with Clover's soul, the "miracle" line is obviously her saying that she doesn't actually expect Kanako to get better outside of extreme circumstances, which is her justification for continuing along with her plan.

>>3855163
The reading people went with (regardless of if it is the correct one) is that she's doing what Cave Johnson did in Portal 2 when he tried to cure his moon rock poisoning with moon rock portals. She thinks (again, this is people's reading, not necessarily the author's intent) that if she just does it right this time, it will fix everything. And from the player's perspective, a soul resurrecting the dead is such an easy thing that it's completely mundane.

Even if Clover's soul can't bring Kanako back from the dead, its not too big of a leap for the player to assume it can, since its main function in Undertale was to bring the player back from the dead. We even saw a similar procedure resurrect Asriel from the dead.

In the average UT player's mind human soul = resurrect the dead.

>>3855175
>but she's clearly not doing everything she's doing *because* of that.
I already said that
>. Nothing about her dialogue indicates that she has any hope of Kanako recovering as a result of what she plans to do with Clover's soul, the "miracle" line is obviously her saying that she doesn't actually expect Kanako to get better outside of extreme circumstances
no its clear indication that despite the tough act she's putting on she'd desperately hoping for a miracle and again that ties into hopes and dreams being mixed into her theme A MOTHERS LOVE. its not A WIFES LOVE, because even though she knows its not going to fix things, she's hoping that if she keeps pushing forward this is gonna fix everything.

her primary motivation is to finish chujins work, and she denies hoping that this is going to save kanako but everything she does and everything we see and hear tells us thats a lie. she didn't come here to save kanako but the faintest chance that "but what if clovers soul causes a miracle" gives her hope that she tries to deny having.

>>3855177
Nta, but I wonder if the writer genuinely couldn't decide what it should be. Hence the story feeling like its one way, but the literal text of the narrative implying its the other.

Like maybe he considered having Ceroba actually use Clover's soul to save Kanako, but then remembered that couldn't work for X reason, so quickly wrote in a new justification for the fight.

>>3855177
>no its clear indication that despite the tough act she's putting on she'd desperately hoping for a miracle
She clearly isn't, her dialogue shows as much.
>that ties into hopes and dreams being mixed into her theme A MOTHERS LOVE. its not A WIFES LOVE
Hopes and Dreams being part of her theme was a weird pick, but that can be chalked up mostly to just wanting it because it's one of the most iconic leitmotifs from the original game. As for your second "point", and to borrow a quote I saw somewhere else, "A Widow's Woes" doesn't exactly have the same ring to it, does it? Also, "A Mother's Love" is pretty obviously meant to be a play on LV, as in, Level of Violence.
Everything about her dialogue clearly illustrates the fact that she's doing this to finish Chujin's project, with Kanako being more of a driving force for her, not because she's holding onto some faint hope that what she's doing will somehow save her and undo her mistake, but because if she doesn't see the plan through then she and Chujin will have suffered and died for nothing, and she'll have let them down in her eyes. Again, sunk-cost fallacy.
Kanako *is* part of Ceroba's motivation, but not in the way you and so many other people think she is.

sex life of UTY characters
>dalv
kissless virgin
>martlet
virgin or only had sex once
>starlo
casually bangs mooch while crying about ceroba
>ceroba
as a widow, her only sexual activity is using the toys chujin made for her
>axis
happily married chad
>clover
cockblocked out of fox pussy by fate

>>3855183
*using the toys made from Chujin

>>3855179
I definitely think theres a lot of mixed messages sent out from development changes for sure. I think thats why the argument even happens, her actions all stem from mistakes she made that better suited a much different version of her. That said 'hopes and dreams" coming through in the final parts of a mothers love literally playing as she lets out that wail, and the expression she has when she picks up the broken mask pieces? thats a pretty good representation of someone trying to avoid a terrible truth, and then the full acceptance that her baby girl is gone. those moments are all centered around things tying to her daughter. the mask breaking is showing the lie that she told herself, that there was hope , finally crumbling. she told clover and starlo there was no hope, but until that moment theres a lot of signs that she's still holding on
>>3855182
>she clearly isn't
she clearly is. and the ring doesn't matter, they could go with a different name. LV is also spelled with a capital LOVE. you are right about her main motivation being the sunk cost about chujin and all of that, but you're dead wrong about everything else and its so plainly evident. the way you are describing things makes it clear you aren't even considering the points I'm presenting when you talk about kanako being her motivation or not when I keep saying it is not her motivation, it is a desperate hope she's got in her heart despite everything to the contrary.

>>3855183
Eh, I could see Ceroba moving on from Chujin after a while, after the true pacifist ending.
Oh god, you think that guy who thinks people moving on after their partner dies makes them whores is here?

>>3855186
I don't see anything wrong with moving on from a dead partner, but there is a spiritual beauty around staying loyal even after death.

>>3855186
>Oh god, you think that guy who thinks people moving on after their partner dies makes them whores is here?
I prefer the idea of Ceroba not moving on and adamantly defend it because I think its an admirable trait and a breath of fresh air for the series. I don't her moving on to Starlo or Anon's self insert makes her a whore, I just personally dislike it.

I don't know if you meant me and were doing that thing people like to do here where they conflate an opinion with the most extreme idea it could possibly conflated to, or if you mean someone who actually said "Ceroba is a whore for getting remarried after Chujin dies" in those words.

>>3855194
there was a conversation a couple months ago where that discussion happened, and surely there were reasonable people on both sides, but there was absolutely one person in the thread pulling the "widows are whores if they remarry". it was a /v/ thread so it could have been a regular or just some passerby idiot.

>>3855196
Could also just be a normal person arguing for something absolutely retarded in a fit of autism.

I've done that before and then woke up the next morning, looked at posts, and thought "what the fuck was I on about?"

>>3855199
Not that specific argument mind you. Just something similarly retarded on an unrelated subject.

>>3855199
possibly, the point being its actual quotes and not just "things i'm imagining my enemy said".

>>3855112
I'm still on the fence on whether or not the Knight should be killed for their shenanigans

>>3855204
Is that just because you want to fuck her?

>>3852004 (OP)
Deltarune was a let down. Not to mention the time between each chapter release. Played through Undertale 3 times because friends were talking about it so much.
Be mad if you want, to each their own if they think something is good or bad.

>>3855207
Op was asking about the anniversary stream Toby did, the one with all the new content.

>>3855206
no. they slashed Tenna's arms off but I don't know the details of their corruption, should this be a lightner that isn't acting how they normally would

>>3855214
At that point you have to ask if killing them is an act of mercy.

>>3855210
My bad. Thought it was the same as the FF Anniversary or Tales Anniversary. Didn't know there was a specific stream about this. OP just says now that it's passed, what do you think. Favorite moment could have been implying many things since Deltarune, specific, is episodic and has no carry over between chapters. Lore could have been people talking about chapter 5. Then the last part where making a fangame leads me to believe that the game won't be going anywhere anytime soon, so, like with some games, either fan games or mods are needed to get enjoyment out of the game. Picture doesn't help.

>>3855231
This is actually a thread about Undertale and Deltarune fangames, and he was asking the Undertale and Deltarune fangame players and devs what they thought of the new content, since it has a lot of relevance to the development of fangames due to all the lore reveals.

If you had been in the previous two threads you'd have seen the absolute meltdown that happened over one of the lore reveals near the end. People memeing about the mandate of heaven was also pretty funny. as seen here >>3853024

>>3855179
I dunno, wouldn't that imply that everything about Chujin and his serum project was also added in pretty last minute?
We know there was some reworking with Ceroba and her story somewhat late into development from the UTY artbook as well as that 1 year anniversary stream that happened a while back, but all that stuff about the serum project is way too prevalent in UTY's story for it to have been made as a bandaid fix for something so small.

>>3855236
The serum was originally Roba's idea and was explicitly made to kill Kanako so Roba could live forever. Then it got changed to it being made by Chujin and Roba being retarded. I'm saying there may have been a very late in development change where it went from "Roba wants to save Kanako" to "Roba wants to fulfill Chujin's legacy".

>>3855238
>The serum was originally Roba's idea and was explicitly made to kill Kanako so Roba could live forever.
Wait, what? I heard Beta!Roba's plan was to head to the true lab to finish Kanako off after she fell down and was taken by Alphys, I never heard anything about an iteration where the serum itself was made explicitly to kill Kanako. You have a source for this, I'd actually like to see it if there is one.
I mean, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, if she wants to kill Kanako so badly, why not just do it herself directly instead of beating around the bush with a serum? Even if the idea was to make it harder to directly link to her, it seems really roundabout for what could be a fairly simple process.

>>3855242
I have no source, this is just what I heard in the threads. Roba killed Kanako on purpose, and it was done specifically to maintain her immortality, and somehow that process involved a serum.

>>3855183
>starlo isn’t a kissless virgin but dalv and martlet are
come on now anon no one cares about this starmooch meme past Jan 2024. we know he gets no pussy

Okay, so, Axis has fourteen models, and we know that Chujin kept working on Axis after Asgore dismissed him, meaning he must have worked on him at home since he was fired by asgore, corroborated by the Axis parts in his study; however, Chujin expresses finality in the tape where he discusses his firing, so how the fuck would Axis Model 014 be registered in Vendy's systems if he wasnt actually built in the Steamworks?

>>3852004 (OP)
God, has it really been 10 years?

>>3855309
He was probably registered in the security network of the facility.
Even if he wasn't built there, or if that specific iteration of him wasn't built there, he clearly has some kind of connection with the steamworks regardless, so it's possible Chujin added him to the steamworks' internal network sometime after he was fired and while he still had access to the facility.

>>3855309
Maybe it was pre-emptively added to the system in anticipation of its completion, and after Chujin was fired he finished it at home.

>>3855187
>spiritual beauty
More like schizophrenia-induced cope, theres no real reason for ceroba to "stay loyal" after chujin's death, chujin isn't gonna yell at her for moving on because he's fucking dead, and nobody is gonna congratulate ceroba for staying as a permavirgin for the rest of her life, it's pointless, and it's a very visible showcase of weakness because it shows you as someone who's physically incapable of accepting your loss and moving on without letting it weigh you down forever.

>>3855310
Well, about 10 years and some change now.
And it's only going to get further away.
Forever.
You're dying.
Slowly, but you're dying.
You peed your pants and everyone saw.

>>3855313
>it's pointless
>because it shows you as someone who's physically incapable of accepting your loss and moving on without letting it weigh you down forever.
That's what makes it beautiful. There's no logical or practical reason to stay loyal to a dead man, yet her love for him is so strong it transcends logic, reason, and even death itself. She could never love someone else, nor would she want to, because she wouldn't be able to live with herself if she did.

>Its a very visible showcase of weakness
I disagree. It shows how strong her love for Chujin is. Even after she's been released from all of her responsibilities and duties to him, she' still chooses to remain loyal to him to no benefit to herself. That shows an incredible sense of loyalty and care. The strength to take a lifetime of pain and sorrow out of nothing but principle.

Finally read all of Shattered Decade, pretty good. Really makes me want a fluffy gf.
But it has some issues, as others pointed out. But I think the biggest issue was too much anime, and sure Clover having 10 years of multiple runs pooled instantly into his muscle memory justify it, but he is still too superhuman even before the link with Kanako.
Author sure loves guns, but who doesn't I guess, but it felt a bit jarring when the gun stuff got detailed descriptions while the rest of the earlier chapters were lacking.
The pacing in the latest 2 chapters were also a bit off IMO, like Roba reminding of the Rainforest and the journey/first bit there could have been split into its own chapter before ch 20 ended, and the kiss kinda also feels rushed even if I know what the author was trying to come up with.
That said I liked it a lot and want more of it, if I wasn't already drawing the RtF comic I'd probably make a comic of this too (maybe if I ever finish it)

>>3855444
Some other nitpick:
I think the manor in the Rainforest region should have been Chujin's family, not Roba's. Roba is a regular monster from the mountains, not a boss monster, which would fit Chujin's story more (and also I find it funny the headcanons that she is larping as a japanese wife for Chujin), also if she is from Rainforest doesn't fully explain how she and Starlo were childhood friends.
If I ever do adapt it to comic, I am going to be doing some major rewrites in some segments (mostly for the sake of pacing, not anything plot altering), unlike RtF where I kept it mostly 1:1.

>>3855313
I don't understand why you think that in order to move on from a relationship that ended, you must start another one

Sorry for not posting the art yesterday, I got sidetracked on a programming issue that took longer than expected. I should have those reqs done by this evening.

>>3855473
Yor doing good lad

>>3855444
>>3855447
Hey, thanks for reading, glad you're liking it!
Yeah my pacing kinda sucks lmao. The broken-up early chapters certainly didn't help either. Sorry, this is the first fic I've ever written.

The reason I went for doing something with Roba's family and not Chujin's is because everyone and their mother already does stuff with his family, and he's already got a bunch of his own stuff in the house at the Dunes. I wanted to do something different, and do different theming than all the Bell & Ketsukane stuff. I couldn't do that at all if I stuck to Chujin's family.

And yeah you're also right about the bit about Ceroba living so far away from the Dunes/Plains seemingly not making any sense if she was supposedly childhood friends with Starlo, buuut it'd also just be easy enough to say they went to the same school somewhere together and fix it like that.

Honestly I've been writing Clover way weaker than I would think someone with 100,000+ runs' worth of growth would be. In my imagination, I'd expect someone like that to be treating everything like a complete joke. But that'd be boring, so I have not been doing that, and I've been just buffing certain enemies to keep things interesting. Gerson is currently the strongest guy around.

I'm not about to start reeling back on the anime-inspired stuff though, it's just part of who I am. But I will do my best to at least try to subvert the lamer tropes, like the bit I did in the hotsprings where most people expected that to just be a pure fluff bit, or something stupid like the girl throwing buckets at the guy.

Anyways, I'd be super happy if you did draw anything at all inspired by my silly writing, that'd be really cool!

>>3855527
I won't promise I will make a comic out of it even if I want to, kept imagining how the panels and pages would go as I was reading and everyting, but I have my hands full with RtF atm which I underestimated how long would take due to chapter 10 being kind of a slog to adapt 1:1 (hence why future chapters will be kinda cut in a few places, I think 30-40ish pages per chapter is the sweet spot and chapter 10 took 102 pages due to all the dialogue it had).
Also an anon last thread reminded me of my old android tablet, so I'm using it to color and typeset the pages since it is easier to color there than using my usb tablet on the PC (and also has less distractions).
Anyway, keep up the good work, any Kanaclover content is welcome in my book.

>>3855542
Will do! Best of luck with the RtF comic!!

>>3855249
Starlo is fit and charming. the only way he is a virgin is if his oneitis is that bad.
Dalv is an art weirdo recluse, he is text book virgin.
Martlet is a coin toss, she is cute but also very oblivious and doesn't seem to be a romantic type.

>>3855183
Martlet isnt a virgin, chujin saw to that

>>3855566
No, she was too old for him.

>>3855473
Oh and this is what I was side tracked working on. Walk cycles are done now. I think the sprites need work.

The aspect ratio is wrong so you'll probably have to download it and play it stetched in VLC if you want it to have the proper aspect ratio. 5:4 makes it look about how it would without that window border on a proper 4:3 display.

>>3855597
I don't know its green. It wasn't green when I recorded it or when I played the video file on my system.

>>3855597
>unregistered hypercam
also you know how you'll program the camera yet?

>>3855600
No, I'll do that later. Right now I have to fix a color issue on Windows versions Vista and newer. Apparently FB's built automatic process for setting the color palette when loading an image is broken, so I get random color palette each time I run it. I'll have to program a way to manually set the color palette at runtime, and make it be set again every time the player fullscreens the window.

>>3855550
people really forget about how starlo actually acts in the game. he has a lot of confidence aside from when he understandably is recovering from having been an asshole for the last 20 minutes and realizing it. outside of that he's a pretty bold person and doesn't let his oneitis get in the way of calling ceroba out multiple times

>>3855597
>Unregistered HyperCam 2
SOUL

>>3855613
Its the only thing I could get to work. My PC is too old for Shadowplay or OBS, too slow for Bandicam or CamStudio, and Fraps only works with Directx and Opengl games.

>>3855609
NTA, but I like when fan-content depicts Starlo more closely to how he actually is in-game, like that one fic taking place in the KFFT AU where Starlo finds out what Ceroba's been doing to Clover and Kanako for the last few months, and has the feisty five take her to prison in New Home.

>>3855628
im not familiar with what kfft is but I have a gut feeling I dont want to know

>>3855629
It's that one AU some edgelord on reddit made where Clover decides to stay with Ceroba after the true pacifist ending instead of giving up their soul, and Ceroba abuses them (and an amalgamate Kanako after she somehow gets her back) in an attempt to make them commit suicide so she can take their soul for herself and finish the serum project, the main idea being that Ceroba never really let go of the idea of finishing the project and she's just playing the long game.

>>3855631
oh I hate that, yeah I remember people talking about it. sounds like starlo was the only one in character, because even if ceroba was still gunning for clover soul I can't fathom her going about it that way.

>>3855632
Yeah, it's definitely OOC for most characters who show up in the original AU, (except maybe Flowey, since it's implied he orchestrated most of the events of the AU for the purposes of being able to plant the memories of the timeline in Clover's head after he resets in order to convince them to go straight to Asgore instead of befriending the main cast), but sometimes the edge can still be fun.

>>3855629
Clover misery porn. At first it was funny in a black comedy sort of way, but it really overstayed its welcome.
>>3855632
Starlo was retarded in it. The running joke was Clover would be showing obvious signs of abuse, and keep giving him subtle cries for help, which would fly right over Starlo's head.

>>3855641
I dont think i'll read this one. I like an angsty story here and there, but if its all edge no point then really its just the author venting whatever pent up emotion they have and I dont need to inflict that upon myself.

>>3855643
Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone, it's probably the most "ow the edge" shit to come out of the subreddit, unless there's something worse I haven't heard about somehow.
The fic over on AO3 I initially brought up when talking about Starlo was pretty good though, everyone outside of Ceroba acted pretty decently in character there, given the context.

>>3855644
I don't know if I'd call it the edgiest, since its all framed as an obvious joke. Meanwhile that Ceroba cheats on Chujin comic was completely serious and I think it ended with Chujin murdering Starlo and going to prison. I might be misremembering that last part since I only have other anons' descriptions to go off of. (not reading reddit comics lmao)

Anyone got any good references for Val and Riley?

>>3855648
you gonna draw them fighting?
here you go brother (couldn't find a pixel perfect sprite of val fast but this will do)

>>3855649
Thanks, just fulfilling a req I got yesterday.

>>3855646
>I think it ended with Chujin murdering Starlo and going to prison.
It didn't, Chujin attacked Starlo but didn't kill him. The comic's relocated to tumblr, and is currently about the ensuing legal fallout of what happened.

>>3855653
Whatever, my point is it gets a lot more edgy value out of its comparatively tame content because its trying to depict it seriously.

>>3855655
Maybe, but I think that's kinda unavoidable when it comes to UTDR stuff, given how unseriously the original material is even when it could stand to take itself a lot more seriously, it's just what happens when you change the tone of things.

a funny scene I thought of last night

>>3855657
thats pretty cool

>>3855657
really cool

>>3855657
Missed opportunity to have it pan to the left and have Cole be the one doing the coolest pose.

Also, these guys need to do an aura farming tournament in the dark jail

>>3855666
>Missed opportunity to have it pan to the left and have Cole be the one doing the coolest pose.
hm, I will try to figure something with this

Here you >>722599325 go, one shadowguy chuffing a fat doobie

>>3855667
Its the perfect setup for the pull up technique. From their perspective he just appeared out of nowhere looking really cool. He's got a cloak that can flow in the wind too.

It would be Piccolo tier

>>3855668
NTA, but that's pretty good stuff.

>>3855449
Its not that you have to start another one, it's that you dont have to let you bring you down, nobody would say that a neet choosing to kill himself rather than to live independently after his parents' deaths is "spiritual beauty" or that choosing to not form any new friendships after getting a best friend even if you lose your bff and become lonely forever is "spiritual beauty", im not saying that you should just go "oh well" and fuck the next girl that comes your way as if your previous relationship never mattered, all im saying is to not let it stagnate, theres nothing wrong and no shame on deciding to move on after a relationship that ended, but you cant let it affect you forever, it IS a sign of strength to be able to uphold your goals and motivations after suffering from loss, so by deciding to "stay loyal", you're admitting that you cant accept your loss and that you're unable of moving on and growing from said experience, making it weakness, for you choose to stagnate instead of moving on.
Therefore, Ceroba should be able to move on from chujin's death, the whole plot of uty is about how she ended up hurting herself, her daughter (past) and her friends (present) because she refused to move on from Chujin's death to the point where she ended up resorting to attempted murder, its pretty clear what the message there is.

>>3855676
>a neet choosing to kill himself rather than to live independently after his parents' deaths is spiritual beauty
That's not the same. You're meant to grow and live past your parents. With your spouse, your meant to spend your entire life with them and die before leaving them.

I think even if Roba actually killed herself after Chujin and Kanako died, just because she refused to live in a world without them, that would have an air of beauty to it, and to a certain extend would still express the virtue of loyalty and show her love for him.

>or that choosing to not form any new friendships after getting a best friend even if you lose your bff
Again, that's different. Friendships aren't an exclusive thing and are much more temporary. You're expected to have multiple friends and to end friendships when you no longer want them. You're expected to stay with your one spouse forever.

>but you cant let it affect you forever
Who says you can't? If she would rather be alone than with someone else then I think she should be. If she would rather mourn Chujin for the rest of her life then find new love, that is again, her wish.

>so by deciding to "stay loyal", you're admitting that you cant accept your loss and that you're unable of moving on and growing from said experience, making it weakness, for you choose to stagnate instead of moving on.
I don't think moving on and growing are necessarily a good thing, and niether do I think stagnation is a bad thing.

I think we put too much value on change in this world, and try to shame people into complying with it. If Ceroba would rather suffer for eternity than leave Chujin behind to find someone new, then I say she is strong. Not even death and time will stop her love.

Someone who would spit in the face of reality itself, at no benefit to themselves, who gets nothing but sorrow from it, solely because of their convictions. That person is strong.

If I can't convince you of this then we simply live in different worlds.

>>3855676
>its pretty clear what the message there is.
Its possible to disagree with the artist's intent you know. That's how you end up with things like right winger's loving Starship Troopers (the movie) even though the director meant to make it a scathing criticism of right wing militarism. Even if the artist intended to make the message "Ceroba should move on" that doesn't stop the player from deciding Ceroba is based for refusing to move on.

>>3855682
NTA, but someone isn't "strong" or "weak" for deciding to/not to move on from someone they lost.
They're both just choices, choices either of which someone may pick depending on how they feel, but neither one is inherently better or worse.
If someone loses their partner and chooses not to try again and move onto someone else, that's just a choice, it isn't indicative of anything outside of that. If they chose not to move on because they were satisfied with what they had with that person and don't feel like doing it again with someone else, or if they chose not to move on because they're mortally terrified of losing the next person they may become attached to, at the end of the day they still made the same choice.
If someone loses their partner and decides to move onto someone new, whether it's because they genuinely want to move on and forge a new connection with someone else, or because they feel hollow and just want to distract themself from what they lost, the choice is still the same.
The choice itself isn't a measure of strength or weakness, it's why they made the choice that matters.
For Ceroba in particular, I could see things going either way. Maybe she holds on to her devotion to her late family, and remains by herself for the rest of her days, albeit no longer pursuing Chujin's wishes with his serum project. Maybe she fully lets go, coming to the conclusion that her extreme devotion to Chujin after his death ultimately caused more harm than good for her and those around her, and decides to fully embrace moving on with her life and relationships.
Either outcome is possible, and neither one is better or worse in and of itself.

>>3855682
I kinda disagree with the idea that Ceroba's feelings towards Chujin and his wishes were as bulletproof as you're insisting they are. I mean, if she had adhered to what Chujin asked of her 100%, sure, you'd have an argument, but she didn't.
She involved Kanako. Chujin explicitly asked her to never be part of the project, and she went against that. Even regardless of the fact that Chujin asked her not to include Kanako in the serum project, Ceroba shouldn't have done it simply because Chujin wouldn't have wanted any kind of harm to befall his daughter, which was part of his motivation for doing what he did in the first place.
The fact that Ceroba was willing to disregard his explicitly stated wishes on one hand, and blindly follow his other wishes into oblivion on the other, shows that her devotion to him wasn't really all that strong. She loved him, and she wanted to do what he wanted done, sure, but that she was willing to compromise on one of the most important wishes he left behind like that shows that she's far from unwavering.
And if she can let go of trying to pursue the project entirely after being defeated by Clover, I really don't think it's a stretch for her put two and two together and realize that her devotion for Chujin didn't just her, it actively made everything around her worse, and maybe she'd start to move on after that. We already see a bit of that first part in-game, so the rest really isn't much of a stretch.

>>3855666
>aura farming cole

it just gets more and more kino

And for you >>722599182 one Roba doing a kickflip

>>3855704
As a bonus, I draw on a black background, so I accidentally drew a felroba as well.

>>3855705
And here's one with a funky color palette I made while shifting the colors around. I think the color palette looks neat.

>>3855704
>>3855705
>>3855706
roba upskirt
also if you want to link to other boards, use 3 > with the board name, so like >>>/v/722599182

>>3855706
>>3855705
>>3855704
fuckin sick

>>3855649
Do you have one of Riley without the bunny ears?

>>3855711
not a sprite but I have this art

>>3855704
>>3855705
>>3855706
I can't believe it, the roba stole the Susie flip

>>3855721
I based it off of this. I wonder if that other guy did too.

>>3855676
>by deciding to "stay loyal", you're admitting that you cant accept your loss and that you're unable of moving on and growing from said experience, making it weakness, for you choose to stagnate instead of moving on
I fully agree with everything you said besides this. I don't think "moving on" and "staying loyal" are diametrically opposed. Just because you don't want another romantic relationship, be it out of respect for your previous one or believing it's irreplaceable, doesn't mean your loss continues to weigh you down, or that you're unable to cherish and make the most of the remaining life and family you have.

>>3855722
Well unfortunately I don't think we'll be able to find out since he might be gone now. :(

>>3855690
That's a different argument. I never said she could never ever move on from Chujin. I just said I like the idea of her staying loyal to him even after death because its romantic and has a kind of tragic beauty to it. I personally like to read it that way because I like that kind of thing and think the series needs some of it.

>>3855733
damn, did he rope that fast?

>>3855741
He was sort of annoyed at how boring the thread was and said he wasn't coming back until there was a newsletter or they got you know who, since I guess he's a you know who enjoyer.

>>3855742
I'm assuming, you know, because there were no more doodles

>>3855614
>too slow for Bandicam or CamStudio
Wait seriously? When I had a Pentium 4, I swear I was able to record with CamStudio at 480p@30fps. It's been like seventeen years though so I could be remembering wrong

>>3855745
I have never been able to get more than 5 fps out of camstudio even on Core 2 machines.

Did you anons know the original Phantom of The Opera movie no longer exists. The version we have now is only a reconstruction made from various parts found here and there, and even those parts themselves came mostly from recuts and reshoots of the movie. There also exists another, lower quality reconstruction made from the 16mm release of the movie, which was painstakingly reconstructed from all the surviving fragments of usable footage in the surviving copies of it. And these two copies are entirely different from each other. Having different takes, different edits, in some cases entirely different scenes, or even mildly different angles of the same take because they filmed each scene with two cameras.

I feel like there's some kind of story or character idea in there. Some original place or character destroyed or lost to time, being carefully reconstructed from the best parts of the fragments of its remains found throughout the world. Then when it is reconstructed, its somehow different from the original. Then you reconstruct another entirely different being from the lower quality duplicate pieces left over. Making a second, lower quality, and also unique copy of the original. Maybe these two beings created as radically different imperfect copies of an original could even meet each other at some point.

Sharing this because it feels like something appropriately meta for the series that could fit in a fangame.

>>3855781
This makes me think about how gerson trusted susie with rewriting his letter to alvin in the light world, and how he said smthn like, that as long as you got the point, the words dont matter

>>3855787
I was thinking about Ralsei and Gaster, but it could just as easily be any sort of OC or even location. We know Gaster was shattered across time and space, and depending on your interpretation, that might include multiple versions of Gaster across different universes. So perhaps someone could take the various Gaster pieces they've found and reassemble them to make a Gaster. Sure half the peices are from universe A, a third are from universe B, and the remaining space was filled in with pieces from a dozen different universes, but it is still a whole Gaster. And then someone else comes along and puts together their own Gaster from the peices you didn't use. Now there's two Gasters.

Or with Ralsei. He's some kind of copy of Asriel. Maybe if someone else were to make another Asriel copy from a different object, for the sake of argument lets say Ralsei is a plush, and someone else throws a photo of Asriel into the dark world. What would that Asriel copy be like? What if he and Ralsei met?

Or hell, what if you had an entire world that was made up of bits and pieces of other worlds glued together. Perhaps the original world and all its fun variations were destroyed in some roaring style catastrophe, and now someone has gathered up all the most intact pieces and built a new world out of it. But things don't quite fit right because of it. There are inconsistencies everywhere. Bits of lore than contradict each other, things working by different rules, people having conflicting memories, some people not existing when they should, others existing when they shouldn't. But no one's quite put the clues together and figured out what's up.

>>3855715
everytime someone post a riley art they look more feminine than last time

>>3855822
...Riley is a boy?

>>3855822
real time bimbofication.

>>3855826
Riley goes with he/they pronouns, but they look more feminine than most UT girls

>>3855838
>they
>giving an inch

>>3855840
makes me think wildfire team wanted Riley to be strictly a boy for HMOFA purposes but felt the need to compromise if the usual crowd got pissy. Atleast Kris commits.

>>3855840
Would calling Riley "they" while fucking his ass make you more gay or less gay?

>>3855846
Riley was a they/them at first, they change it to he/they later

>>3855847
gay levels stay the same. Its still gay btw

>>3855849
okay then, whats gayer, having sex with a monster femboy or going with he/they pronouns?
asking for a friend

>>3855850
Go back to r/Undertale, faggyboy.

>>3855704
hell yeah, thanks

>>3855840
actually this makes me think, shattered decade exclusively refers to clover as male (even kanako explicitly calling clover "boy" and other characters too), yet all fanart I've seen of it has clover go with "they" (like this pic >>3853455 ), I think the "he/they" thing is a compromise so twitter artists dont just burn the thing at the stake or ignore it
though supposedly pic related was also made by the author and goes by they while the exact same scene in the fic goes by he so I don't know if the author endorses it or is just doing it to appease twitter to get fanart
(author if you are reading this, do not reply to this comment because if twitter sees it they will burn you at the stake)

>>3855822
>>3855827
Ralsei syndrome

>>3855926
meant for >>3855838 as well

>>3855847
More gay. Playing pronoun games is homosexual activity.
>>3855850
Fucking a man is gayer, but adding the two makes you super gay

>>3855838
That one inverted fate human girl character looks very feminine through

>>3855937
Who?

VRPG must be a dead thread. This one keeps appearing. The only fans for Deltarune are on 4chan

>>3855947
What?

>>3855947
this is a thread for UT/DR fangame discussion and development, the actual deltarune thread is over at >>3805656

>>3855950
>fangame
The company that sells merch?

>>3855970
Yes, yes, you're very funny.

>>3855971
Hohoho hehehehe

>>3855872
I'm not gonna lie, the fanart in >>3853455 and its odd fixation on gender identity led me to assume the actual fic was like that and dismiss it. Once again, my first exposure to something being through questionable fan works taints my perception of what the original must be like.

>>3855976
same, was skeptical due to that image but the fic itself refers to clover exclusively as he

>>3855975
Actually it's "nyeh heh heh"

WHAT THE [heck] DID YOU JUST [freaking] SAY ABOUT ME, YOU LITTLE [jerk]? I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW I GRADUATED TOP OF MY CLASS IN THE STEAMWORKS, AND I’VE BEEN INVOLVED IN NUMEROUS SECRET PROJECTS WITH MY CREATOR, AND I HAVE 1 CONFIRMED NEUTRALIZED HUMAN. I AM TRAINED IN ROYAL GUARD PROCEDURE AND I’M THE TOP ENFORCER IN THE ENTIRE STEAMWORKS. YOU ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT JUST ANOTHER TARGET. I WILL WIPE YOU THE [heck] OUT WITH PRECISION THE LIKES OF WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE IN THE UNDERGROUND, MARK MY [freaking] WORDS. YOU THINK YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH SAYING THAT [stuff] TO ME OVER THE UNDERNET? THINK AGAIN, [idiot]. AS WE SPEAK I AM CONTACTING MY SECRET NETWORK OF MACHINES ACROSS THE UNDERGROUND AND YOUR IP IS BEING TRACED RIGHT NOW SO YOU BETTER PREPARE FOR THE STORM, [idiot]. THE STORM THAT WIPES OUT THE PATHETIC LITTLE THING YOU CALL YOUR “LIFE”. YOU’RE [freaking] DEAD, KID. I CAN BE ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, AND I CAN KILL YOU IN OVER SEVEN HUNDRED WAYS, AND THAT’S JUST WITH MY BARE GLOVES. NOT ONLY AM I EXTENSIVELY TRAINED IN LASER-BASED COMBAT, BUT I HAVE ACCESS TO THE MOST DEADLY TECHNOLOGY KNOWN TO MONSTERKIND AND I WILL USE IT TO ITS FULL EXTENT TO WIPE YOUR MISERABLE [keester] OFF THE FACE OF THE CONTINENT, YOU LITTLE [brat]. IF ONLY YOU COULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT UNHOLY RETRIBUTION YOUR LITTLE “CLEVER” COMMENT WAS ABOUT TO BRING DOWN UPON YOU, MAYBE YOU WOULD HAVE HELD YOUR [darn] TONGUE. BUT YOU COULDN’T, YOU DIDN’T, AND NOW YOU’RE PAYING THE PRICE, YOU [gosh darn] IDIOT. I WILL [expel] FURY ALL OVER YOU AND YOU WILL DROWN IN IT. YOU’RE [freaking] DEAD, KIDDO.

>>3855994
>t.

>>3855942
Lilac, iirc.
She actually looks pretty feminine and like how an actual woman would

>>3855682
"With your spouse, your meant to spend your entire life with them and die before leaving them."
Someone is bound to die before the other. Yes, it can be romantic to swear a promise that you'll never remarry, like William Gillette did. If you don't make that promise, nobody will begrudge you for remarrying.
>>3855685
If you write a satire and make the target appealing, that's a fault of the satirist. It reminds me of Alan Moore intending Rorschach to be an unappealing anti-hero, only to end up a fan favorite. The Federation was misrepresented from the original work to be "fascist" so it's ironic that it be misrepresended by viewers in turn.

>>3856048
Ngl, I still think Riley looks more feminine than her

>>3856050
She looks like Klonoa

>>3856049
>If you don't make that promise, nobody will begrudge you for remarrying.
I never said they would. I just don't think its the idea of her remaining alone out of love for Chujin is romantic. Remember this argument started because an anon said her staying alone was retarded.

There's something that's been floating around in my head regarding DRY1. Whatever past event that caused Kanako to trust Cole with the lead without thought(aka what joined them at the hip) could probably also be linked to Chujin's relative tolerance of Cole. For example, them getting lost out in the woods/desert/hills/whatever with Cole refusing to leave Kanako no matter what results in Chujin going from;
>"they're all crap and even with Martlet raising him, he'll be crap too"
to;
>"this one won't hurt my daughter now, but I'll keep an eye on him anyway"
he probably wouldn't extend the same courtesy to other humans, but Cole hath shown himself a decent lad thus far.

>>3856057
Could just be that its because Cole is Martlet's (adoptive) son. Even if he hates humans, Martlet is still a very close friend, so he has to be civil for her sake if nothing else.

>>3856067
not that anon, but while that is reasonable, Im a fan of the idea. clover, and by extension cole is a man of action, and actions speak louder than words. its a good backdrop to the way things started

>>3856057
Hey, here's an alternate idea I don't see people bring up too frequently: What if DRY Chujin just doesn't hate humans?
Like, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that whatever in particular made Chujin hate humans in UTY was probably pretty exclusive to that world, since the world of UT seems much more racially divided than the world of DR, provided there actually are other humans on the surface and just not in Hometown for whatever reason.
If DR takes place in a world without a human/monster war, or a world where the monsters won the war, as some people theorize, I feel like there'd be way less of a reason for Chujin to hold any particular resentment towards humans in that case.
Yeah, it's not impossible those sorts of feelings could still form outside of the circumstances of the world of UT, but given how different some DR characters are from their UT counterparts, I don't think it's a given that Chujin would be exactly the same.

>>3856098
No that's ridiculous
Chujin has to be racist or you go to jail

>>3856098
i mean yeah but for DRY2 chapter 3's whole plot kinda revolves around chujin being racist.

>>3856098
The problem is that he *does* hate humans in DRY. We see it on screen. He even dislikes Cole, he just doesn't say it to his face.

>>3856101
>>3856100
Okay but why though? I'm not talking about whether or not he hates humans in DRY, I'm asking why that's a feature of his character to begin with. Like I said, that makes sense in the world of UT, but makes very little sense in the world of DR.
For example, Undyne in UT is pretty hell-bent on killing you, and in any of the neutral endings where she feels you "betrayed" her, she vows to break the barrier, declare war on humanity, and kill you personally.
All that vitriol, and yet she doesn't have a single thing against humans in DR.
Chujin's hatred of humanity in UTY was much tamer and more pragmatic by comparison, to the point where it wasn't even necessarily "hate". It's like how Handplates!Gaster talks about humans, he views them as a threat and wants them dealt with, but it's not necessarily personal animosity all the way.
So why exactly does Chujin hate humans in DRY? I get that Chujin has so little character in UTY that you pretty much have to make a new character for him from scratch whenever you write him (same boat as Kanako), but it feels like a bit of a weird detail in the context of a story meant to take place in the world of DR.

>>3856104
chapter 2 isn't finished yet but it will go into that

>>3856105
Is it gonna go into that well? Cause if it ends up being on par with The Monarch's motivation in The Venture Bros., I'm gonna have a hard time not calling that bad writing.

>>3856108
>ceroba dated a human once before they met and chujin is still upset about it

uhm, peak alert!

>>3856112
I know you're joking, but that (only kinda) worked in The Venture Bros. because the reason why The Monarch hates Rusty Venture had been kept secret for so long that it was pretty clearly just a joke, and not actually some mind blowing piece of lore. The joke worked because it had about 20 years worth of build up, to the point where most people probably figured we were just never gonna get an actual answer on it. Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that the show got cancelled and was given that last movie as it's final chance to show itself off, I don't think we ever *would've* gotten to know what it was.
That doesn't really work with DRY and Chujin like this. Obviously if it ends up being a dumb joke reason, it's gonna be stupid, since you'd have an entire, fairly major character have their entire personality centered around something that very objectively is just a joke, but it also can't be something as serious as what it was in UTY because there just isn't a lot of room for something as big as the human/monster war to have happened in the context of the world of DR, so I feel like it's gonna be real easy to end up being written into a corner over this, since you obviously have to address this trait of Chujin's and why he has it, but I really feel like there isn't a lot of room for it to be something that actually works well.

>>3856098
There are humans that hate certain other humans, and similarities are much more common than between humans and monsters. It's not unreasonable for there to be casual racism between the two groups. For that matter, why wouldn't there be racism between types of monsters? Some have very different behavior depending on what kind of creature or object they resemble. It's not hard to come up with a reason.
>>3856104
>in any of the neutral endings where she feels you "betrayed" her, she vows to break the barrier, declare war on humanity, and kill you personally.
Going to be >that guy. In one ending where you date her and then kill Mettaton, she ends up broken and depressed. Undyne just loves monsterkind to an extreme amount and this is what causes her to hate the enemies of monsters.

>>3856104
for 2, i think its one of those things thats better to not say directly.
if you elaborate the backstory of why he hates humans, you can only really go down a few paths
>he's completely justified in his hate - conflicts with him actually changing his mind
>he's a whiny little bitch hung up on a minor incident - reflects poorly on the character as a whole
>he """didnt know many humans""" or """learned from his parents""" - extremely cringe and feeds into the opinions of certain groups that i dont really want to
none of these really line up with what i want to do with chujin as a character or the kind of person i want him to be.
i'll probably just imply that he's had bad experiences with humans in the past and leave it at that.

>>3856116
>In one ending where you date her and then kill Mettaton, she ends up broken and depressed.
Okay, I should've specified that it happens in the endings where she ends up the ruler of the underground instead of anyone else. In those endings she vows to wage war on humanity and kill you. Otherwise she either understands why you did what you did (as long as you *only* kill Asgore) or is just a sad lump.
>For that matter, why wouldn't there be racism between types of monsters?
Who knows, but we sure don't see any. I think the general consensus is that monsterkind is too harmonious with itself for there to really be monster/monster racism.
Also, again, I'm asking why he'd hate humans in the world of DR. Undyne hates humans at first in the world of UT, and much more vocally and actively than Chujin ever seemed to in UTY, but she's perfectly fine in DR.
Both her and Chujin's opinions on humanity were the result of their circumstance, which is pretty understandable given what those circumstances actually were. My question is, if Undyne has no real issues with humans when she's removed from those circumstances, why exactly is Chujin still frothing at the mouth with hatred when he's also removed from those circumstances?

>>3855872
None of the twitter artists I've worked with really care that much about the pronoun stuff, lmao.
I personally don't care about it much either, but I do find it a lot easier to write with "He/Him" rather than "They/Them" due to the latter being used to refer to multiple people normally.

>>3855976
>>3855983
Guess I'll remove the gender bit entirely from info things like that I put together in the future so it doesn't put people off either way.


But anyways, at the end of the day, I made Clover definitively a guy in Shattered Decade so I could have him do the funny Yakuza thing convincingly.

>>3856104
My guess is that he included it for drama. Having Chujin be an all around great man except for his hatred of humans makes him an interesting character and gives plenty of opportunity for conflict. Even now its already worked on you, see how it's got you asking why he's racist, despite his reasons for being racist in UTY not existing in DRY. Its already got a plot hook to make you interested.

>>3856108
All plot elements if done poorly are bad writing. We can only hope that DRYanon's writing is good, otherwise his game will be nothing but bad writing, racist foxes or not.

>>3856123
I'm not actually super interested in the plot of either DRY take, I'm moreso curious on the basis of most characters who exist in both UT and DR not actually being very similar to each other across the two worlds, so I'm more interested from a creative direction standpoint as to why Chujin's being written as being more or less the same when everyone else outside of him is so different.
Then again, as I said earlier, I think the most likely reason is because him (and Kanako) are effectively non-characters in UTY, so having to write either of them as having a more direct presence in a story basically requires that you just make up a character for them to have.
At least Chujin has *something* to go off of from UTY, every Kanako interpretation I've ever seen is practically just a different OC wearing the same face as each other.

>>3856112
It seems more like Ceroba would be the one upset about that. Like she's too this day horribly ashamed that she ever loved someone other than Chujin.

>>3856115
There are plenty of reasons to be racist that aren't world ending catastrophes you know. Plenty of people hate other races irl, despite none of them having world ending determination powers. Maybe Chujin had bad experiences with humans, and that permanently poisoned his view of the race. Maybe he was raised to think that way by his parents. Maybe there are more mundane but still real reasons to distrust them, like crime statistics or rates of violence, and Chujin applies those generalizations to everyone, regardless of whether they actually fit.

>>3856122
>But anyways, at the end of the day, I made Clover definitively a guy in Shattered Decade so I could have him do the funny Yakuza thing convincingly.
Wise. Having a teenage maybe-girl go topless all of a sudden would land you in hotter water than confirming a masculine character as a boy.

>>3856117
>he's a whiny little bitch hung up on a minor incident - reflects poorly on the character as a whole
It doesn't have to be minor. It could be something major that is a very understandable reason for hating an entire race, even if its not justified. Maybe his family lost their home due to financial troubles, moved to a poor and majority human human city, and he was bullied for being the only monster. With the kind of horrid stuff that happens in ghetto schools, I wouldn't fault anyone for becoming a racist. Being exposed to only the worst aspects of a group will make anyone racist. Or maybe he had a sister who married a human and got abused. That could add context as to why he's against Kanako being so close to Cole. Maybe he had a lifelong human friend who betrayed him in a particularly horrible way. It could even be a combination of factors.

>>3856118
The obvious answer is that some other circumstance lead him to be racist.

>>3856126
>There are plenty of reasons to be racist that aren't world ending catastrophes you know.
I'm well aware that people are racist for reasons other than complete cataclysms, but it seems a little weird to me that a character who held those sorts of beliefs for some pretty well-defined and explained reasons would still have those beliefs even in a world where those reasons never existed. Monsters in UTDR generally don't seem to harbor extreme feelings or ideologies like that without some pretty damned good reasons, and we see that in the world of DR, with a lot of the monsters who had very particular feelings about humans or even just Frisk specifically in UT don't generally seem to have those sorts of feelings in the world of DR, since the reasons for them having those feelings doesn't exist.
Undyne doesn't greet you with some weird rehash of her "seven human souls" speech, Toriel doesn't act like an isolated melancholic caretaker (I know she's an alchoholic in DR but that's because she's easy, not because she's depressed her kids died and that her former husband is killing more kids), Sans isn't the stoic nihilist he was in UT, etc.
The lives these characters have lived in the world of DR are so vastly different from their lives in the world of UT that some of them are hardly recognizable, so it just feels weird to me that Chujin's apparently the odd one out.

>>3856125
The characters in UT and DR share the same personalities, its only their circumstances that are different. Even if circumstance leads to someone's personality, and changing it would logically change their personality, that doesn't matter because DR is constructed to give them the same personality.

A big part of Chujin's personality is his obsessive hatred of humanity. If he has no logical reason to hate them without the war, then it becomes necessary to invent a new reason so that he can still be Chujin, rather than some new character who shares his name and no other traits. I imagine its also because people like the dymanic of Chujin being the racist father who disapproves of Kanako and Clover's relationship, and wanted to include it in DRY.

>>3856128
Yeah, for sure.
Though, both the "kids" in SD are 21, not teenagers.

I don't like writing with underage characters haaaahaaha

>>3856131
>Toriel doesn't act like an isolated melancholic caretaker
She is still doing the lonely old mom thing, which is similar enough
>Undyne doesn't greet you with some weird rehash of her "seven human souls" speech
But she is still a loud, strong, and bombastic dumbass in a position of authority. Its just a more mundane version of it, being a cop instead of a royal guard.
>Sans isn't the stoic nihilist he was in UT
He might be, we just haven't gotten to have any heart to heart conversations with him like we did in UT.

And you can't forget Asgore still being the funny divorce man, despite no war and no dead kids.

Chujin is a racist here because that was a personality trait he had in UTY. Only now instead of being because they're an existential thread to his race and family, its a more mundane reason.

>>3856134
>it becomes necessary to invent a new reason so that he can still be Chujin, rather than some new character who shares his name and no other traits.
I did bring that up in some of my earlier replies, but honestly, if we're talking about building a character for Chujin based on what little he has in UTY, I can think of a few other things to use. He's extremely driven to do what he thinks is best, to the point that he's willing to risk his own life for people he cares about even if the risks are extremely high, he has some amount of technical knowledge and skill but is ultimate incompetent when it matters most, and he's very secretive even towards people he holds dear. I could think of a few interesting ways you could write a character based off those traits in the world of DR, so I'd hardly say his racism is the only trait worth utilizing.
>The characters in UT and DR share the same personalities, its only their circumstances that are different.
Like I've been saying, the characters who exist in both UT and DR are pretty different from each other. Their base personalities are the same, but their circumstances being different has a large effect on their characters regardless. Monster Kid is hardly even the same character between UT and DR. Gerson's a pretty different character too, being an old historian in UT who tells you little fun facts about the past and the occasional piece of advice, to being a dead author resurrected by a dark world who mentors one of the main protagonists and teaches them to not give up hope in the face of insurmountable odds and that the fate of the world isn't set in stone.
Circumstance matters, and it plays a large part in determining who someone is, fictional or otherwise.

>>3856140
>He might be, we just haven't gotten to have any heart to heart conversations with him like we did in UT.
You look at this motherfucker and tell me he's the same man who tried to stop you from ending the world in that hallway all those years ago.
In all seriousness, what we see of Sans' character in DR indicates that he's a pretty different character from who he is in UT.
Granted, that may be because the Sans we see in DR is the same exact guy, just in the past of his own personal timeline, but my point is that their personalities are different because of their circumstances.

>>3856144
>You look at this motherfucker and tell me he's the same man who tried to stop you from ending the world in that hallway all those years ago.
Are you forgetting the whoopie cushions and the telescope. Sans copes with grief by fucking around. He could be absolutely miserable in this and is just trying to hide it. Or this could be one of the few moments of joy he's had in a long time. Or he could genuinely be happy with his life. We can't know for sure.

>>3856146
I think the most reasonable explanation is that Sans is genuinely happy in DR, which is why he's so miserable in UT.
DR is the place he was trying to "go back" to in UT, which he says he gave up on in the genocide route. Plus, he says he knows the feeling of wanting to go home when you talk with him in the MTT resort in the pacifist route, so I don't think he was too miserable in DR, otherwise he probably wouldn't care where he is, if he was miserable either way.

>>3856142
>so I'd hardly say his racism is the only trait worth utilizing.
Its not the only trait, but it is one that can be utilized, one of the more notable ones at that, and makes for good drama. That's why people make Chujin racist, they like the idea of a racist Chujin.

>Like I've been saying, the characters who exist in both UT and DR are pretty different from each other.
not as different as you say they are.

>Monster Kid is hardly even the same character between UT and DR. Gerson's a pretty different character too, being an old historian in UT who tells you little fun facts about the past and the occasional piece of advice, to being a dead author resurrected by a dark world who mentors one of the main protagonists and teaches them to not give up hope in the face of insurmountable odds and that the fate of the world isn't set in stone.
Those aren't personality differences, those are just different roles. Gerson was just as much the wise old man who liked to give out life lessons in UT, he just didn't give you any. And Monster Kid is the exact same in Deltarune, the only difference is that he doesn't idolize Undyne.

>Circumstance matters, and it plays a large part in determining who someone is, fictional or otherwise.
But the goal here is to create the same person in a different circumstance. So the circumstance is merely made to be one that would create the same person.

>>3856148
>But the goal here is to create the same person in a different circumstance. So the circumstance is merely made to be one that would create the same person.
Hm.
Alright, whatever I guess. It just kinda feels a little forced to me, unless there ends up being a pretty well written reason for it.

>>3856147
I disagree. I think this Sans is later in the timeline, not earlier, which is why he keeps making callbacks to Undertale. That joke about never meeting us before, teasing us with Papyrus, the cat tail hot dog bit. That tells me this is the Sans from Undertale, and this is him after Undertale.

I also strongly suspect he's actively working against Kris, which is why he hasn't shared anything with us and continues to antagonize him so much. Sans was the one that kept Toriel busy all day and away from the Church, and he kept Kris from finding out about it too.

>>3856104
>>3856131
I think you're overthinking this, chujin in DRY1 is mostly distrustful of humans rather than full blown racist, and it's not like he is in a lab making soul serums and death robots in DRY1 like he was doing in UTY, or yells at cole to get out of his house when he sees him
(the memes are still funny though)

>>3856149
All writing is a little forced. You have an idea or an angle and you write to reach that angle. You just have to try and make it feel natural, even though its all completely manufactured.

>>3856150
>That tells me this is the Sans from Undertale, and this is him after Undertale.
Okay, but how do you explain everything he goes on about in UT? "Just give up, I did.", "You'll never see them again.", "I gave up trying to go back a long time ago", "You must really wanna go home- hey, I know the feeling.", what exactly is the explanation for this other than him getting Rose Tyler'd into the world of UT somehow? If not from DR, where exactly did he come from? Because he sure isn't native to the world of UT, I think that's a pretty safe bet.

>>3856150
Also, how exactly do you explained "It's raining somewhere else" in UT and "The place where it rained" in DR?
It's not in-game text, sure, but that's some pretty clear writing right there.

>>3856158
*explain, fuck

>>3856154
He originally came from a universe that is neither UT nor DR. Some third universe that we haven't seen.

>>3856160
Nut Dealer, confirmed.

>>3856158
Its still the same Sans in both scenes under my theory, so the connection is still there and fits just as well.

Really the problem with those names is that they imply the two scenes in the two games are happening at the same time. Which would imply the two games happen concurrently, meaning that these two Sanses couldn't be the same person. In which case neither of our theories are true. This isn't my preferred theory, but I do think its also plausible. Perhaps if the two swapped universes at some point.

>>3856162
Personally, I think the DR world feels really manufactured. So its possible its a copy or clone of this hypothetical third world. If we ever see the world in black and white, I"ll call it confirmed.

>>3856163
For whatever it's worth, I was actually gonna suggest a similar idea, just with a different angle.
I think it's possible there's only the one Sans (and maybe only the one of each skeleton), and UT and DR both exist at the same time, but at some point along his own personal timeline, he's sent from the "present" along either timeline to some point in the "past" of the other. Given the song names, I think the most likely order of operations here is that Sans initially existed in DR, then, likely because of whatever ends up happening in the later events of DR's story, Sans (and Papyrus) gets sent to past of the world of UT. This makes the song names make sense, since the date with him in the MTT resort has the song "It's raining somewhere else", which implies the events of chapter 4 are happening at the same time the song plays, and then chapter 4 has the song "The place where it rained", which implies that it is indeed the "somewhere else" where it was raining during the MTT resort date, and also that the exact moment is now in the past tense.

My other personal favorite theory about UTDR is that the world of DR is, at some point, going to be completely rewritten, as implied by some of Gerson's dialogue during his boss fight.

>>3856167
Maybe its already been rewritten. I've brought it up a few times discussing this game, but the end of The Big O could be similar to what Deltarune does. It ended with the reveal that the entire show was one big unfinished manuscript that kept getting rewritten, which is why all its lore had so many incongruities and contradictions in it. And the very end was the main character convincing the author not to throw out the story, but instead rework it again.

Maybe Deltarune is a time loop of the story continuously being rewritten again and again. Susie did say she never wanted it to end.

>>3856169
Hm, maybe a similar idea could be implemented in an interpretation where the world of DR is scratched into the world of UT.
That would tie into the idea of the world being rewritten, but it would also allow an explanation for the existence of the "reset" in UT, whereas DR only allows you to "erase" saves. Maybe the reset exists out of a desire to be able to more actively rewrite the world, instead of doing a mostly clean wipe, as would be the case with turning DR into UT.

>>3856171
I don't think the DR world has overwritten or will overwrite the world of UT. Toby seemed pretty clear about your ending being left as in UT, regardless of what happens in DR.

>>3856173
it is a pretty common theory that UT happens after the DR world is "scratched" (homestuck term for when a universe resets), because let's be honest, homestuck has a deeper influence on toby than people want to admit
and it would make sense for frisk looking for suzy if they are supposed to be the "scratched" versions of kris and susie

>>3856173
No, I mean the world of DR being rewritten *into* the world of UT. As in, DR's world exists as the precursor to the world of UT.

>>3856176
>>3856175
Deltarune is called Undertale's parallel story. I think that implies that they exist as separate entites rather than one being the precursor to the other. Which now that I think about it ties back in to that raining somewhere else thing.

>>3856182
Yeah, but there's clearly something going on with the theme of the world being changed somehow, and DR does contain a lot of callbacks to UT that don't necessarily make sense in-universe naturally, so I'd say what exactly is going to happen is still a bit up in the air right now.

>>3856183
The callbacks make sense if you explain the Sans stuff as him coming from the UT universe, and (you) existing outside of the normal time flow of the series. Sure all the events of UT are still happening from their perspective, but from (you)rs that all happened ten years ago.

>>3856188
>>3856183
ok, what if sans in undertale comes from deltarune and sans in deltarune comes from undertale as a kind of double mobius reacharound

>>3856190
I don't know what a double mobius reacharound is, but that is basically what I'm suggesting, yes.

>>3856191
just dredging up an old homestuck reference since it was brought up that toby was influenced by it, partly as a joke but also being serious. maybe some ouroboros shit. in death sans is reborn. I'm being a little silly about it but I mean the idea is out there with some sincerity

>>3856122
Oh, didn't know you made the infographic. I thought it was fanart, my bad.
Since I mentioned not liking it, I can elaborate what in particular disinterested me. I thought it focused too much on the superfluous details rather than the big picture: eg. physical attributes, genders, Stand stats, character quirks. I think outlining the premise or showing something cool that happens in the story would have done more to reel me in. Y'know, kinda like a book cover.
In fairness, this seems to be the approach you've been taking with your more recent posts, and the Ao3 summary does exactly that.
Thank you for taking my and the other person's thoughts into consideration.
>I do find it a lot easier to write with "He/Him" rather than "They/Them" due to the latter being used to refer to multiple people normally.
I totally agree. Singular they becoming grammatically acceptable is a mistake.

>>3856224
Yeah, I made the infographic. The art was a commission made by a friend who also likes the pairing.

The Ao3 summary is indeed a plot hook / book cover-like thing. The infographic was made to give people a rough idea of what the characters were like rather than the story itself.

>Singular they becoming grammatically acceptable is a mistake.
I really just wish English had better words for referring to a person regardless of gender, ones that aren't mixed up with words used to refer to multiple people, and don't sound incredibly silly.


Here's a piece of fanart of an event in the story.

>>3856152
Nta but indeed. What I was trying to point out with this post >>3856057 was that in the case of DRY1, a little connection could be made. Martlet and Ceroba likely had an influence as well.

>>3856224
>>3856237
"They" is an indefinite term of address, it's always pulled double duty for plural groups and individuals of an unknown designation.
Hell given you use the internet in polite company you probably use it to refer to people all the time.

>>3856309
Yeah, I do, but the fact that it pulls double duty makes it feel clumsy. Of course I'm fine with using it in everyday talk, I just wish for a better option, that's all.

>>3856237
this whole sequence was so delightfully absurd I need more confidence in my writing

>>3856335
>>3856309
not the guys you're talking to but I feel like "they" wasn't meant to be used as an "everyday pronoum" to refer to people regularly, it was meant for unknown/generic individuals and groups, but using it to refer to someone specifically in every day use makes it "tiring" and still sounds unnatural to me
hope what I mean to say is coming across normally here

>>3856419
It's come and gone in waves.
It was common in letterwriting, fell out with the phone and has come back with the internet.
Of course now there's the whole Genderology thing and over correction trying to be forced on language to combat that, but as it remains it's still basically used the same way as it was.

>>3856419
Depends on when you grew up I guess. Growing up in the early 2000s I genuinely hated that everyone had names, or that I would be corrected for assuming someone was he or she, so I defaulted to just calling people you and they, which was obviously rude, but it's still something I tackle with the language to this day. The modern use of making they default to a new label pisses me off more, because I liked that it was a neutral term, it made the language so much simpler.

>>3856098
>What if DRY Chujin just doesn't hate humans?
I'm still not sure why he's racist or the purposes of him being the only turbo racist in Cole's town, other than for the meme. I've been trying to piece together this trait of Chujin's that seems consistent with all interpretations of DRY (in these threads) with the plot and themes of DR:Y since its a vastly different world we're dealing with. There's no barrier, no ancient war and as far as we know nothing existentially threatening about the human race or monsters. And I know people are a lot more racist for a lot less, but Chujin's flavor of prejudice doesn't seem to be popular in town. if anything, it seems to be more passive and ignorant than actively hateful, atleast in this version: https://youtu.be/ml9prsLLTrA?si=d1YjGUn4_8VNKDaj&t=540

If DR:Y is following the DR playbook, some characters that had little presence in the original game get major role upgrades, and Chujin was dead as a doornail in the first. Feels like something important to be addressed and acknowledged, since the main character is a human, yeah? I've come up with answers of my own, but they don't seem to align with the direction I'm seeing here.

>>3856433
The singular they might end up like gay or faggot, and become a word which is exclusively used to refer to sexuality. That would suck but the current war happening over it might lead to that.

>>3856435
>I genuinely hated that everyone had names, or that I would be corrected for assuming someone was he or she
Anon, that might be autism.

>>3856444
I think Chujin's obsessiveness and self assuredness combines with his tendency towards holding grudges to make him innately prone to being racist. Chujin probably had some negative experiences with humans in the past, and that colored his view of the whole race.

>>3856451
Maybe, but it's definitely retarded how no matter the time and place, pronouns will be improperly spoken, and someone has to be embarrassed about it.

>>3856456
I meant it being that much of a problem for you. The average person doesn't have that much trouble telling someone's gender.

>>3856457
>The average person doesn't have that much trouble telling someone's gender
You'd be surprised, but I don't want to derail the topic. They/Them is good for gender neutrality, simple as.

>>3856237
I prefer clover as a guy anyway, kanako lusting after clover's bare chest and toned abs wouldn't work as well if clover was anything other than a guy, and the "dream boy" joke too

>>3856309
>it's always pulled double duty for plural groups and individuals of an unknown designation
I'm aware, and it has always been incredibly dumb and one of countless inconsistencies of the English language's flimsy "rules". At least there was pushback against it until roughly a decade ago, instead of a push for widespread acceptance.
Hell, I say we already have a better option. "It", while imperfect, at least does away completely with plurality ambiguity.

>>3856509
"It" is too broad of a pronoun to be used for people, especially since it can be used by broad sweeping concepts. Referring to a person as "it" is even more confusing than They, since at the very least They has to refer to a person.

>>3856509
>I'm aware, and it has always been incredibly dumb and one of countless inconsistencies of the English language's flimsy "rules".
Honestly, "they" as an indefinite term of address is pretty clear and straight forward.

>>3856534
literally 90% of the world's languages don't have that crap, it is just male or female and unknown/undefined just default to male
this is also why toby will never translate his games to anything other than english or japanese

If you were a cow monster couldnt you just go to india for an easy 7 souls on top of a personal army of like 20 gorillion to rule the surface

>>3856453
yeah, but how is that significant to the themes and plot of DR:Y, and how does that racism play a part in the story if Chujin's going to be a major character? Especially if that trait has such a mundane and phoned-in origin?

>>3856564
Even if the reasons are mundane, execution is the important part of any story

>>3856562
>Indians
>Souls

>>3856562
Jokes aside, I'm not sure things would work out like that.
The existence of monsters is common knowledge in the world of UT, so I'm not sure how many people would be too receptive towards a monster masquerading as one of their deities or generally religiously significant figures and demanding stuff of them.

>>3856564
>but how is that significant to the themes and plot of DR:Y,
Chujin is racist against humans, Cole is a human, Chujin is a major character in chapter 2. It seems pretty obvious his arc in chapter 2 will be about learning to overcome that racism.
>Especially if that trait has such a mundane and phoned-in origin?
its not necessarily mundane or phoned in. Its possible to make those negative experiences be absolutely gut wrenching if you want to write them that way. Even if the experiences were relatively mundane, say he was bullied as a child by humans, then betrayed by his human best friend, that doesn't mean they're phoned in.

>>3856579
Who's saying they're masquerading? Maybe they really would be viewed as deities.

>>3856581
Maybe some people would see them as such, but you're delusional if you think any religious denomination ever would ever come to a unanimous agreement on anything of any sort, especially on the idea of whether or not any particular entity is the true embodiment of whatever deity they worship.

>>3856562
If you were a decently hot monster you could easily get 7 souls from human simps

>>3856590
This implies that human religions came into existence before human contact with monsters, and had been around long enough to develop distinct denominations. If they were around each other from the start, or very early in each other's history, its likely religion would have develop around the presence of monsters in the world.

You also have to take into account how various mythologies view their divine entities. A lot of them sound a lot like the kind of monsters you'd see living in the underground. Ceroba for example perfectly matches the idea of one of those Inari foxes. Asgore, while he does resemble the medieval Christian depiction of Satan, also resembles the Greek god Pan, since that's what that depiction originated from. Perhaps they did view some monsters as gods, and that's why these myths exist.

>>3856577
right now i'm not really convinced by either just yet. But I know its a work in progress running off of the budget of pocket lint and melted pocket gum so I won't hold that nitpick against it forever.
>>3856580
>It seems pretty obvious his arc in chapter 2 will be about learning to overcome that racism.
So Cole would end up having to gain the approval of Kanako's father? Or is Chujin going to be important later, and this is the first step of more progression? I'm just expecting it to be the former since it seems to be an issue centered around Cole specifically, as the other human in town isn't really brought up or shown to have a connection or be affected by Chujin. Or the other monsters, for that matter. And they seem to *like* Cole. Just feels more like the Overprotective Father trope and less of the Prejudiced Authority Figure trope.
Maybe my standards are too high and I'm mistaking deliberate lacks of acknowledgement as oversights.

>>3856598
> Or is Chujin going to be important later, and this is the first step of more progression
I think only DRYanon knows that.
>Just feels more like the Overprotective Father trope and less of the Prejudiced Authority Figure trope.
Did you forget the line about how you can never trust humans because of deceitful they are?

>>3856604
>Did you forget the line about how you can never trust humans because of deceitful they are?
maybe I did. it's been a while, but the situation feels more like Chujin having an issue with Cole in particular since there's no indication or setting details about racial divides and the lack of evidence for Chujin even knowing Integrity exists, not even to compare her with Cole.

>>3856594
I feel like you're confusing the order of things a bit here.
In our timeline, the various religions and otherwise esoteric beliefs of the world were initially created as a way to explain why things were they way they were.
Why does the world exist as it does? Because a higher power made it so. Why does the world *behave* as it does? Because there are higher powers responsible for actively managing the world and how it works. Why do certain people behave in erratic ways that are difficult to understand? Influence from higher powers, etc.
In a world where concepts like magic and non-human sentient creatures are a normal part of everyday life, and are therefore much more easily explainable, people, even humans, would be way less likely to view such things as being deific in nature.
For example, in a world where people really can heal major injuries through seemingly little effort, or manifest food out of thin air, does a single man healing the sick and the lame, and feeding an entire crowd of people with apparently no resources actually sound that far fetched?
That's just common magic at that point, nothing to write home about.
That's not to say that I don't think any sort of religion would actually exist in the world of UT/DR, the monsters in DR seem to have some sort of vague organized religion surrounding the "Angel" after all, but I think the specifics of what any religious beliefs in the UT/DR world would actually be founded on would be vastly different than in our own world, simply because their world is much less "grounded", so to speak.

>>3856640
>In a world where concepts like magic and non-human sentient creatures are a normal part of everyday life, and are therefore much more easily explainable, people, even humans, would be way less likely to view such things as being deific in nature
Keep in mind that even to real ancient people, most of things we take as mythology and superstition were thought of as every day facts of life. People really did think all these strange bizarre creatures really lived in the world. Just small journey away from the cities and into the wilderness between them could let you meet dog headed men, harpies, and satyrs. A trip to see could see you meet a kraken or a sea serpent big enough to swallow your ships. Every day you had to be careful not to offend the gods or they would send misfortune your way.

In a world where magic really does exist, I don't think they'd differentiate between it and superstition. If your local human medicine man gains magic powers and says the gods gave them to him? Well better believe him, because he can light you on fire with a breath if you call him a liar. Some shape shifting fox says that the god of these lands put him in charge of the fields at the foot of this mountain, and you have to give him tribute to ensure good harvests. Well he can make himself invisible, shapeshift, and summon fire from nowhere. He can probably control the rain too. Better safe than sorry.

We have real life humans with no powers like the pharaohs being viewed as gods, there's no way beings with actual magic wouldn't get that sort of treatment, at least sometimes.

>>3856649
>We have real life humans with no powers like the pharaohs being viewed as gods, there's no way beings with actual magic wouldn't get that sort of treatment, at least sometimes.
Yeah, sometimes, but in a world where those phenomena can be reliably reproduced and documented, there's no way they wouldn't develop a more accurate understanding of what they actually are with repeated exposure.
Plus, the 10th anniversary streams implied that humanity as a whole used to be able to use magic a lot more naturally, before being left with just the soul-specific abilities we see in-game, like how the manual for the UT demo says that sparing is an "aura of peaceful determination" that makes any enemy who's questioning whether they really want to fight you give up.
Your argument about people believing in supernatural stuff in the real world doesn't really apply to the world of UT, because people came up with those explanations in our world to explain what they didn't understand about the world, and even back then those beliefs weren't necessarily unanimously held by all mankind. In a world where these things actually do exist, and are easily able to be observed and studied, people would have more rational explanations for their existence other than just "oh, that big goat guy is the devil", or something similar.

>>3856655
>, the 10th anniversary streams implied that humanity as a whole used to be able to use magic a lot more naturally
Did it? All I remember is the seven mages using it, and then that used up all of humanity's magic. That doesn't seem to me to imply the widespread usage of magic.

That aside, I think we just disagree on how naturally rational people are. I think humans really would do that kind of stuff. And those in the know would likely lie about it for their own benefit, so they themselves could also claim to be prophets, priests, or gods. Or maybe they would even truly believe they are those things.

>>3856659
>>3856655
And of course we have to keep in mind that stream isn't canon. Any information in it can be freely ignored just as easily as it can be acknowledged.

>>3856659
>Did it? All I remember is the seven mages using it, and then that used up all of humanity's magic. That doesn't seem to me to imply the widespread usage of magic.
That implies humanity used to have their own innate magic, before being left with what they have now, that being the soul-specific magic abilities.
>That aside, I think we just disagree on how naturally rational people are.
Maybe, but I think people would figure it out pretty quickly in their world. I mean, we've figured out some pretty astounding things in our world, so I imagine things like monsters and magic could only exist out in the open for so long before people would figure out how they actually work.
Like, imagine if Bigfoot was just a common thing in our world. Not just sightings, but actual, verifiable living creatures that you can reliably locate and observe in the world. It wouldn't be long before we pretty much figured out everything about it there was to know, and then it'd just be some novel north american primate species.
That's what monsters and magic would be like. People might think they're gods or demons or whatever with mystical powers, but after a while of existing alongside them and being able to learn more about them, they'd know better.

>>3856663
I know, I'm just acknowledging it for the sake of this argument.
Actually, *not* acknowledging it actually helps my argument, because then we can just refer to the UT demo manual, and that pretty clearly says that humans can have magic abilities, just more specific ones.

>>3856664
>That implies humanity used to have their own innate magic
That doesn't imply anything of the sort. It could have gotten artificially for all we know. Maybe by taking boss monster souls like that cut concept from Undertale. And even if it were innate, that doesn't mean it was common. For all we know those seven mages could have been the only human magic users.

>That's what monsters and magic would be like. People might think they're gods or demons or whatever with mystical powers, but after a while of existing alongside them and being able to learn more about them, they'd know better.
If they were around now, sure. But in ancient history people would thinking all sorts of crazy things. It took a very long time to get where we are intellectually, and you can't take any of that for granted. Even the scientific method is a relatively new invention compared to the age of human civilization, which itself is young compared to humanity as a whole.

>>3856665
>because then we can just refer to the UT demo manual, and that pretty clearly says that humans can have magic abilities, just more specific ones.
Could you quote the specific line?

>>3856667
>Could you quote the specific line?
Here's the manual, in an imgur link:https://imgur.com/a/GeStA
Second to last image, titled "MERCY", it explains exactly how the sparing mechanic works in-universe, and that sounds a whole lot like magic to me. Though granted, the manual itself doesn't elaborate too much on human usage of magic, but it's clear they can in fact use it. Plus, the existence of the other soul modes imply that humans can have other abilities tied to their souls, and that's a kind of magic.

>>3856668
I think in Undertale magic and determination are very different things. Magic is your usual fantasy game spells and the like. Determination is the in universe representation of protagonism, and the plot contrivances it causes.

>>3856537
Worst part is when people (mostly from the USA) try to force "they/them" type pronouns onto romance languages like spanish when it doesnt work at all and theyre usually very bad choices ("Elle" my ass)

Honestly, i'm glad toby isn't gonna make a spanish translation of deltarune because he would use made up terms in place of the "they/them" pronouns moments

>>3855550
>>3855609
Yes Starlo is reduced to just Ceroba’s beta which is a problem, but he is 100% a virgin I’m sorry bro. He feels too autistic, and it’s a common belief about him for a reason. His cool

>>3856680
I forgot to finish that sentence fuck. His cool persona but lack of romantic experience vs Chujin’s nerdy looks but having more romantic experience is an interesting contrast between them

>>3856682
>>3856680
I dont know man, starlo is more than just the persona, and aside from when he is caught up in his shame, he's a pretty confident person. he even gets that confidence back after realizing how he fucked up.