Thread 3852043

Why is this game considered good? It's just 90% watching the AI fight itself and reading through pages of convoluted of dialogue that doesn't make any sense and characters you can barely even tell apart from each other because the art style and sprites look so generic.

>>3852043 (OP)
>watching the AI fight itself
OH MY GOD
HE DIDN'T EVEN GET PAST THE PROLOGUE

>>3852043 (OP)
its one of the best games ever made anon. how old are you even?

>>3852044
I did, but there's still characters that are controlled by AI. The UI sucks, the battle system is clunky as fuck, the dialogue makes no sense, there's a million characters I don't care about. I thought it would be closer to a Final Fantasy game with tactics gameplay but instead it's just a Fire Emblem clone.

>>3852047
>but there's still characters that are controlled by AI
... you went into the first battle with just Ramza and Delita didn't you?

>>3852043 (OP)
>Why is this game considered good?
1. Robust tactical battle system designed around fully-rotatable 3-dimensional maps.
2. Excellent balance between simplicity, depth and novelty; the mechanics support a wide range of meaningfully different builds
3. The Final Fantasy "Job system" is a great way to handle build variety while developing a team of units in tactical RPG centered around small-group combat.
4. Made before the era of obsessive balance, so many the soulful rough edges are left in even if they are "overpowered" or "broken."
5. Excellent, well-presented story that balances adventure and epic tragedy.

>>3852047
There's no cure for being retarded anon, sorry.

>>3852054
>5. Excellent, well-presented story that balances adventure and epic tragedy.
The story is the most generic boring shit ever. This came out in the same year as FF7 and it's not even 1% as interesting as the story in that game.

>>3852043 (OP)
Same as sotn, gameplay clicks for some. This game has literally no rival, even 30 years later. Even the modern games can't possibly rival fft.

>>3852043 (OP)
>Why is this game considered good? It's just 90% watching the AI fight itself
Stopped reading here. Imagine playing a game about tactical combat and automating it.

>>3852058
FF7 is a very different type of story. Both are good in different ways and can't really be compared.
And no the story is not generic.

1. It's got a great hook. ("You know the popular legend of the commoner who rose to power and united the kingdom after the great war? What if that's not the real story?")
2. Excellent tone and style. It's serious and medieval, with lots of intrigue and backstabbing.
3. No furshit. No pointless romance.
4. Solid themes of Noblesse Oblige and familial love.

>>3852054
>great way to handle build
Haven't seen a better way to multiclass in a trpg.

>>3852047
>The UI sucks
no
>the battle system is clunky as fuck
no
>the dialogue makes no sense
no
you've farmed your engagement, shitter, now fuck off

>>3852045
"It's good because I'm old" isn't an argument.

Any game where the optimal way to play is to have your own dudes attack each other should've gone back to the drawing board.

>>3852110
>this guy doesn't beat his slaves

>>3852110
Why the fuck do you care about what's optimal? Either do what's fun or do the role playing bit. Would Ramza have his dudes beat the shit out of each other in live combat? No? Then why are you ordering them to?

>>3852109
Neither is "it's not good because you're old"
>>3852110
>Any game where the optimal way to play is to have your own dudes attack each other should've gone back to the drawing board.
It's objectively not the optimal way to play. It's only the "optimal" way to grind out large amounts of JP and XP, that's it. And even with grinding, it's much more fun (and monetarily lucrative) to just use traditional "trigger and win random battles" approach.
Some players just can't resist the lure of doing something that feels like cheating to get ahead, even if they aren't actually gaining all that much for the boredom.

>>3852128
what is your damage, anon
why do you do this to yourself

>>3852128
wait never mind, you said it already

Triangle Strategy is unironically a better tactics game than FF Tactics.

I can't believe all the hype this game is getting. Even the cracking community has already released a version of the game. Denuvo did little to stop pirates, but from what I remember it's jus a grinding linear game.

not sure if zoomer or just bait

>>3852047
>Fire Emblem clone
That's where I knew this was a bait all along.

>>3852144
Any arguments?
Things TS did better:
-scales mechanic is a unique idea
-routes (but Tactics Ogre already did this way better)
-more objectives than just kill the boss / all enemies

everything else sucked compared to FFT desu

>>3852047
Fire Emblem clone you say?

>>3852071
Fantasy with no fantasy races

>>3852045
>let's take tactics ogre and make it more shallow and dumbed down
>but let's also add shitty gimmicky FF classes on top of the riveting "run behind someone and punch their back" gameplay of TO
lol geriatric millennials are so delusional

>>3852073
>Haven't seen a better way to multiclass in a trpg.
I'll never understand why you FF fags nut-hug the job system so much that you actually prefer it when you have to "equip" your class, instead of just being allowed to add another class on top of a previously existing one.

>>3852263
>no fantasy races
Because they went extinct, FFT is set 1000 years after a massive calamity destroyed Ivalice.

>>3852043 (OP)
There is two kinds of people that love FFT:
A. Those that actually like the plot and are OK with the pages of convoluted of dialogue.
B. Those that love it for the bullshit based gameplay.

>>3852465
>Those that actually like the plot and are OK with the pages of convoluted of dialogue
Your words are harsh!

>>3852465
I liked the story and as a kid the gameplay was fucking fun. All the different jobs was so cool. To be able to recruit black mages and summoners was so fucking cool as a kid. The fact I had the power to recruit cool dudes to my army was super rewarding. I haven't tried replaying it in probably a decade, I don't know how I'd enjoy it now.

>>3852071
Different anon here.

The reason why people remember FFT so fondly is because it was weighed based on the competition around it. In other RPG games of the time you primarily fought monsters and when they died they made an abstract noise and their body would dematerialize in an abstract way. Not only that but the battles are quick, easy, and the items make it super forgiving.

FFT saunters on in through the saloon doors, takes out it's massive cock, and invites you to measure it. By that I mean you're primarily fighting against other humans, when they fall in battle they shriek or groan in agony, not only that but they shriek or groan in agony like your heroes do, they fall down face first in the dirt, and without quick intervention they die permanently. These fights are more difficult than an average RPG battle. They're more drawn out than an average RPG battle. They require more strategic and tactical thinking than an average RPG battle--doubly so because these human enemies will absolutely kill you if you're new to the game, and just because there are items doesn't mean you have easy access to them. That's an entire job class slot... and for all classes except 1 you can't throw the items either unless you grab the skill as it's not innate outside of the chemist class... Can still be a new player safety net but much harder to just use to iron out difficulty.


... the story though sucks but there's enough obfuscation in the way to make it passable. The intrigue and grand scale make it feel better than it is.
Story still sucks.

Chapter 1 is fine, and a fine explanation as to why Ramza got into mercenary work and away from the nobility.

(cont.)

>>3852071
Chapter 2 is great. We have a princess in peril. Ramza wants to go rescue her. Ramza is shown he has the ability to by storming Lionel Castle. Ramza with his little ramshackle band of rogues not only conquers the castle but defeats the demon lord that had taken power there. So when Ovelia is revealed to have been spirited away? Now that it's been revealed that Ramza not only has the inclination to but the power to depose entire fortresses filled with battle-hardened knights and a demon lord on top of it all?

So all that taken together means Chapter 3 should be Ramza's campaign moving toward where Ovelia was taken because that's what our entire purpose of Chapter 2 was, we haven't rescued her, and we have no interjection of anything else that takes precedence. I mean, shit, the implication here is that literal fucking demons have captured the princess, that's worse than either of the 2 fighting factions getting her, DEMONS have her. That's what we've built up to and toward: saving Ovelia from the demon lords.

Instead of moving forward with saving Ovelia... Ramza... for no legitimate reason lets that trail go cold to go talk to Zalbaag. Ostensibly he leaves Ovelia to get devoured by demons to tell Zalbaag that demons exist and are doing demon things. What was Ramza hoping to achieve? Zalbaag isn't some demon hunter lord commanding demon hunters. Considering the Beoulve family fallout the only thing Ramza could've expected is that Zalbaag might have an open ear for him and little else. Meanwhile Ovelia is taken by demons, Ramza has the power and the ability to go save her... get the fuck on it Ramza, wtf.

So Ramza gets the fuck on it, right?

No.

(cont.)

>>3852071
So in the writers' infinite wisdom, they decided that they're going to still pursue the "rescue the princess in peril" plotline, even "rescue the princess in peril from literal demons" plotline, only they're going to sub out Ovelia for no good reason and they're going to sub in Alma for also no good reason. Alma who has infinitely less prestige than Ovelia, Alma who has little to no relevance to anything compared to Ovelia, over Ovelia who is literally in peril as we speak meanwhile we have to invent a peril out of wholecloth for Alma just to get this worse engine kick-started. Holy christ...

>Well maybe the way Alma gets in peril is more interesting than Ovelia's was.... was it?
... no.

>Well maybe Ovelia is just captured by demons, perhaps Alma is captured by Ultra Demons?
... no.

>... well... maybe the way Alma gets in peril is more believable than Ovelia's capture... okay. Well is it?
... fuck no. Alma, for no good reason, insists she comes along with Ramza. Ramza, for no good reason, relents and takes her along. And surprising absolutely nobody, of course Alma gets abducted.

>Oh! I get it! I get it! So the quest going forward is that Ramza the total Chad that he is is going to rescue 2 princesses in peril from demons! Right?
... no...

>... well shit... if it's not that... perhaps instead of going on an epic quest to save a princess in peril from demons, perhaps Ramza is going to be doing things completely different than storming bastions of power with his ramshackle band of rogues, killing demons, and all in an effort to save said princess in peril?
... no...


So Chapter 3 is just a bunch of pointless wheel spinning at best and at worst makes the story worse. However, does it make the story better in the long run?
... no... it is literally setting up what chapter 2 set up for Ovelia, only worse, and it renders chapter 2 obsolete which begs the question why we even played it since we're not going to pursue it.

(cont.)

>>3852071
And if that weren't already bad enough, we now, as writers, have to undermine the bits that were good and support the bits that were bad or we don't have a story worth paying attention to at all. Ovelia was important to save and Alma isn't really that important to anything that's going on at first. This can't stand as is. So, as writers committed to this shitshow, we have to invent things to make it seem not like a total irrelevant red herring we're chasing here in Chapter 3. To do that we undermine Ovelia's character by inserting a scene that shows she's not the real princess and her whole life has been a lie. Does this radically change anything? Nope! But it unconsciously makes the audience discount her more so they're not as in a hurry to save her. We then artificially prop up Alma who has precious little relevance otherwise. How? The demons, for no good reason, think she'll be the "perfect vessel" for St. Ajora. Why is she so much better a choice than Ovelia to the demons?
... uh... well... if Alma wasn't... then Ramza's quest to save Alma would feel even more lame... ... so... yeah...

Not only that but Ramza doesn't even feel particularly passionate about slaying the demons. He's too busy being oh so concerned that the demons are going to devour Alma. Where was all that concern for Ovelia?

And over the course of the rest of the game, Ramza and his little band of rogues slaughter whole armies, a ton of demons... all to rescue his sister... things he could've been doing to rescue Ovelia...


Still though, the combat is fun, the job class combinations are awesome, the itemization, the sounds, the music...

There's a lot to love about FFT. There's also a lot of lessons to learn about writing in FFT. But that's enough rambling out of me.

(end)

>>3852110
>doesn't know about having move JP up.
>doesn't know that you only really need 3 extra units instead of the surplus at the begining because your are going to get better characters later.

You suck.
HCbaily actually explained how to make things easier and not have that much of a grind .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmXVw_-2RnM&list=PL1FF66EEF6DB7BDB6
a
>>3852326
What pissed me off about FFXII is that we only got one member of the party that was another race.

NIS perfected the battle system years later.

>>3852660
>>3852659
>>3852658
To me the whole thing about Ovelia looks like a a "subversion of tropes" that was prominent in PSX JRPGs. A lot of JRPGs during that time were about experimenting and trying to reinvent the wheel, so here they took the age old "save the princess plot" and did something different with it for the sake of doing something different.
Saving the princess is what you did in the late 80's, having the princess captured only for the story to go "actually we don't give a fuck about that, btw she's not even a real princess but a born and bred puppet (that's actually our way to diss on the whole concept of royalty! aren't we smart huh?!)" is what you did in the late 90's to be mature and avant gardiste.
At the time, doing something like that was relatively novel, the genre was about 12 years old at that point, it was its "edgy teenager" phase.

>>3852789
Oh I totally hear what you're saying about trope subversion, but if you listen to what I'm saying, I'm saying that they didn't subvert the trope. They, literally, replaced the trope with the trope, only worse.

A subversion would be something along the lines of it looked like Ovelia was a princess in need of rescue but the dark revelation is that she was really the demon queen all along and by allowing Ramza to slaughter all the rank and file soldiers of the land standing in his way to the "kidnapped" princess this has left the land quite barren of adequate warriors to fend of the ravenous forces of Hell, and all without so much as lifting a finger on the part of the demon queen.

>>3852110
>Its possible to gain advantage by wasting hours on grinding, therefore i have to grind instead of using my brain to beat the maps with what i have
Classic retard playing rpgs for the first time.

>>3852782
Same with FF14, they aren't just side characters for decoration either, the race-specific content dedicated to FF14's spoken covers entire questlines, raid bosses, and story arcs. FF14 has probably done more "Here's some content for the NPC races" than any other RPG in history.

Yes I want to play a moogle why do you ask?

>>3852247
Also the balance, level design, unique units, flanking, skill resources, QoL, anti-grinding, art, music, and narrative. Everything else has parity with FFT.
>routes
You're misinterpreting the purpose of your choices.

>>3852268
>I'll never understand
Here's a retard proud to declare his pathetic ignorance.
>that you actually prefer it when you have to "equip" your class instead of just being allowed to add another class on top of a previously existing one.
It's a way to balance units and build a party of distinct archetypes that work together, instead of just building everyone into the same one or two optimized do-everything units. There are tons of other smaller reasons as well but I'm sure you're not here for good-faith discussion, so I'll just call you retarded and leave it at that.

>>3852656
>... the story though sucks
Nope. Have yet to see anyone even TRY to offer real criticism of the story ITT. Nobody even drags out the tired "it turns into a demon hunt" critique.
>The reason why people remember FFT so fondly is because it was weighed based on the competition around it.
There are still very few games that come close to being as good as FFT, at the things FFT does well. Every game that has claimed FFT as inspiration is always woefully lacking in some major way.

>>3852658
>>3852659
Sorry, missed that you actually did offer some criticism.
Will read and respond when I have the chance, suffice to say:
>Now that it's been revealed that Ramza not only has the inclination to but the power to depose entire fortresses filled with battle-hardened knights and a demon lord on top of it all?
This is ignoring a central conceit virtually every JRPG with leveling in that you shouldn't compare sequential challenges with this level of pure unmitigated autism.

>>3852247
Scales as in armor or as in actual scales? The latter doesn't sound unique.
>routes
But worse than to, which has like three.
>flanking
How does it work in TS?
>>3852980
Unique units? Nothing beats fat donnalto ninja.

>>3852268
Are you like 6 years old? You should realize the difference between classes and jobs.
>being allowed to add another class on top of a previously existing one.
According to your logic amount of classes shouldn't even be limited. Why stop at two?

Gonna start my Switch copy tomorrow. I played the game many times over the years and still love it. I'm really annoyed there is no WoTL stuff though, in particular the two job classes. I hope they add it as DLC at the very least. I want to replay the game but almost want to just emulate the PSP version again so I can spam Dark Knight later just for fun.

>>3852043 (OP)
Should I emulate the ps1 version or buy the remake? The graphics look a bit weird to me, almost smudged on the remake.

>>3853118
Emulate the ps1.

>>3853120
PSP port has more content but will I really miss out? I enjoyed the Pixel Remasters and they didn't include any of the extra stuff from the PSP ports.

>>3853121
There is more to life than “more content”.

>>3852919
Exactly man, it's no fun if the party is just full of ideal dudes, what's the fun in that? Vaan could have easily been a banga and that wouldn't have changed anything.

>>3853121
PSP has sound issues so avoid it.
It's a replayable game. You can leave it for a replay if you ever come back.

>>3853161
Are the added classes nothing to write home about?

>>3853165
>Are the added classes nothing to write home about?
>Dear Mom,
>This shitty port fucking sucks, it added all kinds of dumb shit to it, and makes the game worse. I wish I had listened to you and just emulated the PSX original, like you told me to do.
>Love,
>Anon

>>3853168
Sorry for the boomer mannerisms :(

>>3853050
>Nope. Have yet to see anyone even TRY to offer real criticism of the story ITT. Nobody even drags out the tired "it turns into a demon hunt" critique.
Well that's because you weren't reading very carefully, anon. I didn't say "it turns into a demon hunt," and I didn't offer "it turns into a demon hunt" as a critique.

>>3853051
>Sorry, missed that you actually did offer some criticism.
You're anonymous, so if you're this guy: >>3853050, it's not exactly clear.

>Will read and respond when I have the chance-
Sure.

>suffice to say:
>"Now that it's been revealed that Ramza not only has the inclination to but the power to depose entire fortresses filled with battle-hardened knights and a demon lord on top of it all?"
>This is ignoring a central conceit virtually every JRPG with leveling in that you shouldn't compare sequential challenges with this level of pure unmitigated autism.
No it isn't because the central criticism is that Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 are redundant at best and render the other obsolete, and since the main damsel in distress becomes Alma? It would seem that Chapter 2 largely becomes obsolete when it's better, more engaging, and more fun than Chapter 3.

Moreover, the predominate majority of the game Ramza is defeating fortresses filled with battle-hardened knights with a smattering of demon lords as he does it. There is no plot point in which Ramza is either blessed by the gods with super human strength, finds the Master Sword that can thwart evil, trains super hard and pushes past his limits to be beyond average... etc.

... he just fucking goes for it as he currently is.

So if he can just fucking go for it and succeed later? He can just fucking go for it and succeed now.

Now, you might have a case if there was some sort of obstacle in front of Ramza like a bridge being out or something that meant he couldn't take his rampage in that direction, but that's not what happens. What happens is Alma gets kidnapped and Ramza chases the breadcrumbs to her whereabouts... he doesn't have to do something else while a bridge is being repaired or hire/help someone to remake the bridge or anything of the sort.

... he literally just fucking goes for it because Alma.

He could've literally just fucking gone for it because of Ovelia, but for whatever reason we can't have that.

>>3853071
>Scales as in armor or as in actual scales? The latter doesn't sound unique.
Scales of conviction.. Dude you should play TS first before butting in.
>>3852980
>balance
by balance maybe you mean lack of enemy diversity.
>skill resources
boring, uninspiring TP system.
>anti-grinding
seriously, I think you just like anti-fun mechanics
>flanking
meh, FFT did positioning better.
>art music narrative
subjective, and narratively TS is weak and boring until the latter half.
>You're misinterpreting the purpose of your choices.
You're being pedantic and bad faith.

>>3853121
Ps1 can be modded

>>3853244
Right, that... Idk, I dislike the fact there are no generics. Unsure if TS is worth a play.
>other points
Nta, but I share your view point. Anti grind is difficult to implement.

>>3853118
>The graphics look a bit weird to me
That's because the remake is just this with a layer of grain added over it.

It was kind of difficult for me to get into this because I'm a zoomer kiddie that got attached to the more modern system (and whimsy) of the Advance games. I did eventually appreciate the themes and the characters but I cannot for the life of me come to understand the Zodiac system and how to build good units and parties. Whenever there was a roadblock I couldn't get past Id just reload an older save point and grind like hell.

>>3853304
How do you know?

>>3852658
>So all that taken together means Chapter 3 should be Ramza's campaign moving toward where Ovelia was taken because that's what our entire purpose of Chapter 2 was, we haven't rescued her, and we have no interjection of anything else that takes precedence.
This doesn't happen because by that point, Delita has brought Ovelia to Goltana. Ruvelia is blamed for the kidnapping plot and deposed. This kicks of the succession dispute (aka "THE LION WAR"), where Goltana pushes for Ovelia while Larg pushes for Orinas.

This is all explained in the narrative timeskip between Chapter 2 and Chapter 3. Indeed the narration says she is "leading" the Nanten Knights (obviously as a figurehead). From a plot structure perspective, the "rescue Ovelia" plot is ended.

>Ramza... for no legitimate reason lets that trail go cold
There is no cold trail. She's not missing. She's with the Nanten Knights --Goltana and Delita-- in the middle of a vicious all-out war between the Larg and Goltana. Ramza approaches Zalbag due to Zalbag's political connections to Larg.

Because War is political.

>only they're going to sub out Ovelia for no good reason
They subbed out Ovelia for an extremely good reason which is that she's a political pawn. Delita rescues her for his own reasons and uses her. The entire goddamn point is the parallel story between Delita (the historically credited hero) and Ramza (the "real" hero). Delita takes Ovelia and protects her from the demons, eventually taking power for himself and leaving them both miserable in the end.

Ramza meanwhile pursues his sister out of genuine family love and devotion.

>>3853488
>Because War is political.
Is it? One could say war's economical. Can have war without politics,, can't have war without econ.

>>3853506
If you consider politics the art of power, then yes war is a a part of power dialectics.

>>3853517
Not a trivial if. Not even sure if politics 100 or 200 years ago is the same as politics today. Same with democracy, term can mean anything.

>>3853506
>One could say war's economical.
The decision to wage war for plunder is still essentially political.
And certainly THIS war is political.
Either way, the point is that Ramza can't just go stop the war by force with his little band of adventurers, even if that other anon thinks that storming Lionel Castle means they're invincible. He can't just apply direct force to resolve the political conflicts motivating the war.

So he tries to talk to Zalbag, This doesn't work, but a sequence of new events happens as a consequence of his visit to Lesalia that lead deeper into the plot involving the corrupt church, demons and holy stones (as war continues to rage in the background).

There's nothing wrong with the storytelling.

>>3853181
>Moreover, the predominate majority of the game Ramza is defeating fortresses filled with battle-hardened knights with a smattering of demon lords as he does it. There is no plot point in which Ramza is either blessed by the gods with super human strength, finds the Master Sword that can thwart evil, trains super hard and pushes past his limits to be beyond average... etc.
This is just bitching about the central conceit of JRPGs. This is not a serious criticism of the story within its domain.

>>3853397
Zodiac system is ignorable at best, although for speedrunning it will definitely give an advantage
Party composition is more important. Early game on CH1 in particular, Black Mages are OP. You still need a beefy HP tank & Monk with Chakra (for sustain) though.

>>3853488
You're not getting my criticism. I'm not attempting to point to a non-existent plot hole, and sure if I did point to a plot hole that could be taken as evidence of the writing being poor, but that is not the only measure of a poorly written story.

My criticism is that Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 have the same narrative skeleton: a damsel is in Ramza's party and a demon kidnaps her. Chapter 2 is cooler, I'd rather have played a plot involving Ovelia. Chapter 3 is lamer, I'd rather have this one end on the cutting room floor.

But as writers? We're the gods of this fantasy realm. Can we divert course from pursuing Ovelia and pursue Alma? Not only can we but we in fact did in FFT. Was that a good decision? No.

Why isn't it a good decision? Because Chapter 2 is cooler. Chapter 3 is lamer.

Why is Chapter 3 lamer?
Alma has no good reason to be introduced into the plot like she did in Chapter 3. !!She has no good reason to tag along with Ramza!!

>But Ramza wants the stone in Orbonne Monastery! And he's a heretic! He can't get in!
... Zalmo just saw Alma help Ramza. Alma's a heretic too.

>Okay! Okay! But pretend for a moment Zalmo's vision is terrible, the fighting was chaotic, and he just happened to miss Alma's beautiful face and voice in all of it.
Okay, she's still got no good reason to go.

>But how does Ramza get into the monastery then?
How does Alma get Ramza into the monastery?

>... okay, fine she doesn't.
Exactly. I mean what was Alma really going to do? Enter the monastery by herself and *steal* the zodiac stone for Ramza's sake? A sacred royal treasure? And what incontrovertible evidence do we have that Alma could succeed in such an endeavor?

>... fair. So she doesn't steal it. Perhaps she asks really nicely for the stone? Or perhaps asks really nicely for heretic Ramza to enter and how that will surely go well when he steals the stone?
No. That's not going to work either.

(cont.)

>>3853488
>So you're saying Ramza can't go in and Alma can't do much of anything if she's there anyway...
Yep.
In fact this little plan of Ramza's and Alma's is so half-baked that the writers don't even flirt with the idea of it succeeding. No, no, no. The second Ramza and Alma pull up thieves have already broken in and killed many inside which give Ramza and Alma the free license to poke their dicks into it.

Well, my friend, if that was the plot spackle they had to use to cover the numerous shortcomings of this "plan" to get them into the monastery? I dare say that is fine enough plot spackle for Ramza to have gone in alone.

See, it's not enough for the writers to tell me Alma had a purpose in coming to Orbonne. I still need to see her contribute something only she could possibly contribute once there.

>Well she had a purpose!
Oh really? And that was?

>... someone had to watch Simon!
... no they didn't...
As a matter of fact Simon just makes everything worse. He immediately asks Alma what she's doing there calling immediate attention to the fact that her presence is peculiar. She never would've made Ramza's entry into Orbonne easier. Ramza owes all thanks to the thieves happening to ransack that night or else this would've been a complete bust.

>"I regret I can't help you."
We could've told you that back in Zalbaag's place, Alma.

She has no legitimate reason to be there. The only reason why she's there is because we, the writers, insist Ramza have a damsel to save and so she needs to be kidnapped. And hot damn, would it not be cool to save m'lady from a cadre of evil demons? Yes it would. As a matter of fact, I seem to remember another damsel in distress that was abducted by demonic forces in this plot.

Now I'm not saying we can't have a solution that involves Alma getting abducted by demons and Ramza going off on a quest to save her, but I am saying the solution on offer is kind of lame and Wiegraf is doing all the carrying in it.

(end)

>>3853557
That is a quote mine.

>>3852054
>obsessive balance
Started with mmo, didn't it?

>>3852043 (OP)
I havent slept since this came out

Do you have to worry about builds messing up your character stat growth in this game? I understand wanting jobs and abilities that compliment equipment and stuff, but if I wanted to learn all jobs and all abilities on a character, would I be punished with bad stats in the long run?

>>3853706
>I havent slept since this came out
Bro, it’s been what, 27 years? Please, take a nap.

>>3853728
im starting to develop hallucinations, I dress up like my Chemist and im running out of crack

>>3852043 (OP)
is it bad I already have like 40 hours in the game and I have 0 clue what's going on in the story?

>>3853841
>l i t t l e a t t e n t i o n

>>3853842
its not that its complicated but its boring. I just like fighting, dont care about the story, which isnt very original. Princess gets kidnapped, save her. played Super Mario already 30+ years ago, no thanks

>>3853846
>Princess gets kidnapped, save her. played Super Mario already 30+ years ago, no thanks
You didn't play the game.

>>3853714
For optimal stats? Yes.

>>3853665
>My criticism is that Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 have the same narrative skeleton:
This is not criticism. A skeleton is just that, a skeleton. It's a form you can use to accomplish any number of different objectives. There's nothing inherently wrong about using the same structure, especially when there's an obvious reason for it that I already explained (Delita/Ramza parallel stories)
>Okay, she's still got no good reason to go.
She wants to go with Ramza, her brother that she loves.
The fact that you don't see this as a valid reason is probably why you don't understand the story at all. You don't like the story because you don't understand one of its most important themes (familial love).

>>3853714
This guy is correct:>>3853854
However, you do not need optimal stats. Calling it "punished" is not the right framing. The game is balanced assuming you the player doesn't do anything to optimize stat growths.

Also... if you're hyper-autistic and really want to optimize stats, you can exploit the growth rules by using the "level-down" traps that appear in a few random battles. You set a class with shitty growths like Chemist or Bard, then level down. This mitigates the stat shrinkage from de-leveling, so then you can level up again in a better class like Knight or Ninja. There's no limit to how much you can do this.

Just beware that almost nothing affects your MA growth. I think Mime is the only generic class that gives better-than-average MA.

>>3853860
>This mitigates the stat shrinkage from de-leveling
I wonder if this is still a thing. Wasn't it because of how the game always truncates and very rarely round ups?

>chapter 3
>JP was fun, starting to feel that constant job progress is coming to an halt
>fight some priest
>win, he teleports away
>finally my cute sister joins my party
>get to 3 stage orbonne fight
>win 2nd fight, boss teleports away
>teleported dude snatches my sister and runs away
>win 3rd fight, boss teleports away
>dude kidnaps sister and manages to escape on a chocobo
>boss that teleported from 3rd stage is becoming a demon now
What the fuck is this trash? Everyone is teleporting all the time, no win feels good. I finally get my sister to join me only for her to be kidnapped. That Agrias girl who talked all of chapter 1 is now dead silent and has nothing to do with the story anymore. I dropped this pile of trash. The game is tedious garbage. Especially the story. What the fuck? It went from cool politics shit about nobles, houses and wars and turned into church tries to revive mega satan. What? I knew i did the right choice by not playing this game for all these years. I knew something was wrong with this game; that only retards like it. I stand corrected. At least it made me want to replay TO again.

I mean, someone will bite.

>>3853859
>This is not criticism.
It is, but go on.

>A skeleton is just that, a skeleton. It's a form you can use to accomplish any number of different objectives.
My point: They didn't accomplish a different objective. At all. Chapter 2 is a setup. Chapter 3 is a set up.

What are we setting up?

Struggle for a zodiac stone, cloak and dagger schemes, demon lords doing demon things, speaking of which demon lords absconding with princesses in peril.

That's why I call it "wheel spinning."

>There's nothing inherently wrong about using the same structure-
Oh I agree with you on that, but the way Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 connect? Ramza doesn't have to be there at all in Chapter 2. Delita captures her either way. Ramza's going to discover the zodiac stones and the Lucavi with Alma anyway.

>She wants to go with Ramza, her brother that she loves.
That's a great motive. What does she contribute? Nothing.

(cont.)

>>3853859

>The fact that you don't see this as a valid reason is probably why you don't understand the story at all.
See that's where you assume too much. It's that I not only understand the story, but *I ALSO* know how to write a narrative too.

>You don't like the story because you don't understand one of its most important themes (familial love).
It functions as a motive, sure, and guess what? We could've had Alma captured and Ramza off to go save her a million different ways. Motive but no contribution? Demons could've ransacked Zalbaag's place and kidnapped her. No hackneyed plan that doesn't pass the sniff test required.

Motive and contribution? Here's one: Alma knew Orbonne Monastery not only has the zodiac stone, but Alma is one of the few people Simon told where it's hidden therein. If that were the case? Then Alma has to go because Simon is not going to give Ramza the specific location of where the royal treasure is located. You could even sweeten this contribution a notch by making it so only the people who've studied at Orbonne know the secret ritual that opens the door to it.

Boom! Contribution.

(end)

>>3853874
Whats there to bite you dumb nigger. The game is badly written. This teleporting shit is complete nonsense. Wow, what a great joy to finally beat a stage only for the boss of the stage to teleport away. Lmao. What a joke. And why is no NPC talking anymore? When they were guests all they did was yap. Now nothing. Its all just Ramza talking. Even if i bring those unique NPCs with me, they dont talk either.
>oouhhh akshully, Agrias talks to the final boss of chapter 2 if you bring her
Nice. 1 nothingburger line. Fuck off.

>>3853871
>What the fuck is this trash? Everyone is teleporting all the time, no win feels good. I finally get my sister to join me only for her to be kidnapped. That Agrias girl who talked all of chapter 1 is now dead silent and has nothing to do with the story anymore. I dropped this pile of trash. The game is tedious garbage. Especially the story. What the fuck? It went from cool politics shit about nobles, houses and wars and turned into church tries to revive mega satan. What? I knew i did the right choice by not playing this game for all these years. I knew something was wrong with this game; that only retards like it. I stand corrected. At least it made me want to replay TO again.

No taste. Go back to your Baulders Gay or whatever.

>>3853882
>the game is hard therefore it sucks
are you the one who wrote the IGN Alien Islolation review?

>>3853879
>Struggle for a zodiac stone, cloak and dagger schemes, demon lords doing demon things,
>That's why I call it "wheel spinning."
You aren't analyzing the story as it actually happens, you're taking a careless, vague summary and criticizing the vague summary for being too similar to another vague summary. Do you see why that is fucking stupid?

>>3853881
>*I ALSO* know how to write a narrative too.
You clearly have no idea how to analyze or criticize one. The more carefully I read your rambling, disjointed, poorly-formatted posts the more I realize you have no fucking clue what you're talking about at all. You're setting pointlessly arbitrary standards based on your own personal drug-addled ideas about what the story should have been.

>Motive and contribution? Here's one: Alma knew Orbonne Monastery not only has the zodiac stone, but Alma is one of the few people Simon told where it's hidden therein. If that were the case? Then Alma has to go because Simon is not going to give Ramza the specific location of where the royal treasure is located.
This is an absurd nitpick. The quality of the story barely changes at all. Indeed, there's nothing in the story as it is told that explicitly EXCLUDES this narrative from being true. That's how pointless your entire rambling criticism has been.

>>3852043 (OP)
I feel sorry for the FF7 kids who bought this game only for the FF title

>>3853892
I started playing FFs with 7, and then I emulated 4/5/6 and loved them, and then played Tactics and loved it too

>It went from cool politics shit about nobles, houses and wars and turned into church tries to revive mega satan
>This teleporting shit is complete nonsense
>At least it made me want to replay TO again
I kek'd

https://youtu.be/e84o-r4jvl0?list=PL10TtkUOryRPI-CnsH_uPdK5yvboYQcei&t=2613
https://youtu.be/3YK2a7L9cpk?list=PL10TtkUOryRPI-CnsH_uPdK5yvboYQcei&t=2785
https://youtu.be/GhKEzmThA_s?list=PL10TtkUOryRPI-CnsH_uPdK5yvboYQcei&t=4357
https://youtu.be/yKuCgZwdNoQ?list=PL10TtkUOryRPI-CnsH_uPdK5yvboYQcei&t=2239
https://youtu.be/Zj8qL7D5TuU?list=PL10TtkUOryRPI-CnsH_uPdK5yvboYQcei&t=600

>>3853886
Lmao the game is shit and annoying. Dropped hard.
>>3853887
>>the game is hard therefore it sucks
Mentally ill tranny or something? Who talked about difficulty? This is about badly written narrative of every boss youve beaten to just teleport away. This is what you get for winning a stage. Named NPC? You can bet your ass he will teleport away and meet you again in 4 stages. Garbage.

Speaking of difficulty, the game is not even hard. Without much grinding Tactician is not really challenging at all. Ramza with a few dips in Monk, Samurai and Ninja with >90 Brave just double hits everything to death while staying alive anyway. Do similar shit with your 4 other generics and no fight is challening at all. "Tactics" my ass.

>>3853894
>chapter 3
>play for half an hour
>you meet 5 enemy NPCs you have beaten only for them to teleporr away
>in the span of 30 minutes
>5 teleports
kek harder you faggot fangirl.

*Goalposts and teleports away*

>>3853898
You going to at least try to understand your debatebro lingo you are using? Ive been talking about chapter 3 teleporting bullshit since my very first post.

Nevermind. I came here to get off my chest just how annoying this game has gotten. The whole sequence of some faggot teleporting away, then sone faggot teleporting away, get to next stage and see faggot teleporting away into snatching my sis i left behind (with the zodiak stone) and getting a clean escape...man, what a joke. Only this place sucking off this garbage is a bigger joke.

You think I care about your idiotic opinions that much? Both games have plenty of teleporting away, if you don't like it tough luck. Go be a double standard retard someplace else.

>>3853895
>he doesn't know about 5 stack Chemists

>>3852043 (OP)
It's mostly first mover advantage. For many console gamers this was probably the first tactical RPG they played, and the most accessible one. On the story side, it's like FF7 or Xenogears, where a lot of gamers at that time had never encountered stories with "serious" themes before so it set a bar. If you actually go back and play it though, the story falls apart by about the end of Chapter 2. Delita's side of the plot happens almost entirely off screen and Ramza's side becomes about magical demon stones in place of politics. I expect partly because SE didn't think a purely political story suited the age range of the audience.

>>3853889
>You aren't analyzing the story as it actually happens, you're taking a careless, vague summary and criticizing the vague summary for being too similar to another vague summary.
You don't at all find it a bit tedious?

3 chapters of damsels in distress. Teta, Ovelia, and Alma.

1 note, 1 note, and 1 note.

Chuck in Rafa and it's 4 damsels...

It doesn't bother you that in Tactics Ogre you're directly involved with the intrigue and Ramza is just off doing Ramza things to the side, in essence...?

No...? Not at all?
Well okay then. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

>Do you see why that is fucking stupid?
I see you being ignorant and indignant that I'm besmirching your fav.

>You clearly have no idea how to analyze or criticize one.
Oh really? This is gon' b' gud. Do tell.

>The more carefully I read your rambling, disjointed, poorly-formatted posts-
I assume you're this anon: >>3853051. If so, you do understand that you fully admitted to lacking reading comprehension, correct?

And if it's disjointed, do realize that these last few volleys I've been following your lead, responding to what you said, chronologically. I thought this would help keep your thoughts in order but evidently this is "disjointed" and "poorly-formated." Well, buddy, you're the template!

>- the more I realize you have no fucking clue what you're talking about at all.
And you also realize and can understand that there is a logic to my words which means at least a part of what I said speaks to knowing about what I'm saying, bare minimum.

(cont.)

>>3853889

>You're setting pointlessly arbitrary standards based on your own personal drug-addled ideas about what the story should have been.
I was upfront that I thought Chapter 2 was cool and that Chapter 3 was a bit lame and I'd have preferred a plot that followed pursuing Ovelia over Alma.

As for the "arbitrary" and "pointless" criticisms, sure, in a sense you could levy that against any attempt to create or even criticize a narrative. It's all effectively just make-believe anyway, but you're operating under the mistaken impression that only plot holes count as a strike against a narrative.

Repetitiveness can strike against it, lack of relevance can, sour notes (literal and figurative)... etc.

>This is an absurd nitpick.
No, what's absurd is Alma's plan when you take the thief attack off the table and ponder and consider how Alma could've at all aided Ramza in retrieving the stone by being present there in Orbonne. After all, neither anticipated Orbonne would be attacked just as they arrived.

>The quality of the story barely changes at all.
Ah, but it changes! And as you begin to notice that change, you can start to realize the relationship of other weights across the multitude of scales that make up the entirety of the narrative.

And that's a minor tragedy. Ramza feels like a lamer character for going for Alma's silly plan. Needlessly so.

>Indeed, there's nothing in the story as it is told that explicitly EXCLUDES this narrative from being true. That's how pointless your entire rambling criticism has been.
Well if you don't see any value in this discussion, I am not holding you here against your will.

(end)

>>3852266
Tactics Ogre One Vision is so god damn good.

People who have been begging for a true FFT2 for decades still haven't played this shit.

FFT is a god game but only for a playthrough or two - the metagame is not that great. Its not FF5

>>3853908
Magical demon stones were a great story. I’m tired of pretending it isn’t. Sacrificing your humanity for greater power is something all cultures can understand. It might be fantasy but it’s also something that happens. Really it just goes over peoples heads when they aren’t intuitive. Some people literally understand the concept of an archetype but don’t fully grasp them.

Playing fell seal rn, is this really as close as it gets to fft? Massive market gap that won't be filled in ten years... Fell seal sucks btw

>>3853960
Ov is criminally well executed. Having mid game weapons matter through postgame is great. To has mid itemization. Even the last crafted weapons are near useless in coda.
Having enemies constantly outlevel you is boring.

>>3853961
>Sacrificing your humanity for greater power is something all cultures can understand
Cool it with the anti-Semitic remarks.

>>3853908
Wasn't the initial vision to have 2 seperate campaigns/routes with Delita and Ramza? Kinda sucks they didn't just do that for the remaster

>>3853909
>You don't at all find it a bit tedious?
No, because I'm not a reductive retard like you.
>3 chapters of damsels in distress. Teta, Ovelia, and Alma.
>1 note, 1 note, and 1 note.
OK Anita. You're wrong on all three counts. Each objective serves a distinctly different purpose, as does each of the relationships. None of these plots are 1 note, unless you're clinically retarded and incapable of processing any details about the story.

>It doesn't bother you that in Tactics Ogre you're directly involved with the intrigue [and not in FFT]
No, because the entire premise of FFT is that the Zodiac Brave story (and Ramza's role in it) was not part of the official history. The whole point is that there was a demon conspiracy nobody knows about until now. That if Ramza wasn't off fighting the demons as Ivalice tore itself apart over the succession crisis, some kind of cataclysm would have happened.

>>3853909
> the mistaken impression that only plot holes count as a strike against a narrative.
This is the opposite. I'm not even talking about plot holes. You're combining carelessly reductive points and minor nitpicks without constructing anything like a coherent argument. Meanwhile I'm arguing about what the story is actually about.

>I assume you're this anon: >>3853051 (You). If so, you do understand that you fully admitted to lacking reading comprehension, correct?
No, I understand you just fine. Your posts are just pointlessly hard to read because you're incompetent at writing and making arguments. You don't even seem to understand what "reductive" means. You ignored my point about Delita and Ramza parallel stories.

>Well if you don't see any value in this discussion
At this point, I don't. Odds are you'll respond with another dumb ramble. If any other anons are following along and want me to respond, let me know. Otherwise I'm just going to stop replying.

Now all that's left is to beat the game...

>>3853990
>No, because I'm not a reductive retard like you.
I mean you are free to your own opinion, but just remember I didn't start this. You came at me and failed to make a single valid argument assailing what I said and then had the gall to claim you get to dictate the arena and what counts as "valid criticism."

>OK Anita.
Lmao, I've said multiple times that Chapter 2 was cool. I've said multiple times that I would've preferred a story that followed saving Ovelia. None of this is a Sarkeesian argument against damsels in distress.

You are a pigeon on my chessboard, anon.

>You're wrong on all three counts.
No I'm not.
Because Ramza isn't that involved with the intrigue on offer and because every other key on the piano was broken at Squaresoft evidently, the note they played, the single big trick in their bag, to inject some life in this plot, put a little gas in the engine, is to put a girl in need of rescue in front of Ramza.

>Each objective serves a distinctly different purpose as does each of the relationships.
I didn't say they were all exactly the same. I said they were -tedious- because they're playing the same key on the keyboard.

>None of these plots are 1 note, unless you're clinically retarded and incapable of processing any details about the story.
Do you not think Dragon Ball, as an alternative example, doesn't get tedious?

"Oh we killed a good guy, gotta go get the dragon balls for the zillionth time!"
"Oh, it's a bad guy! Oh wait now he's Goku's friend!"
"Oh, even bigger bad guy! Need a brand new transformation!"

"Oh, it's not the dragon balls! It's the Namekian dragon balls! So different! Oh wait wait, it's not the dragon balls, it's the demon world dragon balls! Completely different! Totally new guize!"

"Oh wait, we have super saiyan 1, 2, 3.... blue... pink... so completely different!"

Fuck. Me. Dude.

I'm not saying you can't have a writing convention or a trope. But is it really so much to ask to have some different flavors?

(cont.)

>>3853990
>No, because the entire premise of FFT is that the Zodiac Brave story (and Ramza's role in it) was not part of the official history.
What a total cop out.

You mean to tell me the reason we can't enjoy Ramza being directly involved with the intrigue is because at Square HQ they managed to piece together criticisms of the christian faith, but just--somehow--couldn't ever conceive of later christian interpolation in older documents?

Wow.

>The whole point is that there was a demon conspiracy nobody knows about until now. That if Ramza wasn't off fighting the demons as Ivalice tore itself apart over the succession crisis, some kind of cataclysm would have happened.
And I'm here to tell you that this could've been maintained and Ramza been involved in the intrigue.

>This is the opposite. I'm not even talking about plot holes. You're combining carelessly reductive points and minor nitpicks without constructing anything like a coherent argument.
Go back to 4th grade and finish your course on basic reading comprehension.

Here's the coherent argument: I think the story sucks because Chapter 2 and Chapter 3 are, in essence, treading the same ground, I would've preferred a story centered around the rescue of Ovelia over Alma, and that it is because the writing to get Alma into her role as a damsel in distress feels half-baked.

There you go.

(cont.)

>Meanwhile I'm arguing about what the story is actually about.
Yeah. Looking for plotholes. That's what you're doing.

>No, I understand you just fine. Your posts are just pointlessly hard to read because you're incompetent at writing and making arguments.
Says the pigeon shitting on my chessboard.

(cont.)

>>3853990
>You don't even seem to understand what "reductive" means. You ignored my point about Delita and Ramza parallel stories.
Because we're talking about *my opinion* and *I'm* playing as Ramza, not Delita, and if the story I'm experiencing with Rama is made worse to accommodate whatever the fuck is going on with Delita? Then that is to my point. Not against it.

>At this point, I don't.
Fine, I never asked you for a discussion in the first place.

>Odds are you'll respond with another dumb ramble.
I'll do as I damn well please.

>If any other anons are following along and want me to respond, let me know.
Lol, I was the only one willing to indulge you, dude. This has been a massive exercise in me being charitable to you.

>Otherwise I'm just going to stop replying.
Buh-bye.

(end)

>>3854096
Who would've thought that so many like fft? Wonder how many are posers?

>>3854173
Always cut the buzz around a new release in at least half anon.

>>3854216
Good approximation, will use that from now on. Tendency to be 75% in few years time.

>>3854173
its a good game. solid 10

>>3854433
Unfortunately we just don't have tech to re create this game.

>>3854436
its because of the generation. they lack originality

>>3854436
>We used to be able to make FFT, but the technology was destroyed, and now we can’t go back
This but unironically

>>3854442
They lack much more really.
>>3854444
Who would've thought that people 30 years after fft are playing fell seal and are emulating game boy tactics games to play games similar to fft.
I'm convinced that they will release a remaster of ffta/2 for 60 and another tactics game, I'm also convinced that se will fuck up big league.

>>3854444
sort of like exactly what happened at the necrohol. not to worry though, ramza and crew made it back. we will too.

>>3853871
>It went from cool politics shit about nobles, houses and wars and turned into church tries to revive mega satan.
LITERALLY THE PLOT OF TO.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

>>3854550
>hol
Hohol

>>3854621
Lodis ain't no church

>>3854628
>TO fan doesn't know TO lore
To be expected.

>>3853894
Have some more
https://youtu.be/sN9I6Q5Yfnw?t=1590
https://youtu.be/E4HovVKRqHs?t=673
https://youtu.be/wRWq6Q9B3TU?t=772
https://youtu.be/rYtcVRclnSI?t=2082
https://youtu.be/iKJYu38OzKM?t=1176
https://youtu.be/JQuj4zBM3WI?t=760

>>3854684
Holy lodissian empire, it's not church only.

>>3854693
The Dark Knights are the pope's (High priest Sardian) right hand men and are always involved in underhanded operations. There was even an insurrection that led to Loslorien being the major political power in Lodis.
If you don't see the parallels in the Temple Knights and Mullonde you're ill informed at best.

>>3852043 (OP)
The gameplay of Tactics Ogre and FFT aged very poorly and is not the key things holding the games back. The combat or surrounding systems were never complex or super deep, but the grinding and poor pacing of the combat makes playing the games a slog. Like playing an action game with extreme input delay.

>>3854707
>Like playing an action game with extreme input delay
Might as well have made a food analogy at this point

>>3854708
The point, since you missed it, is that you spend too much time slowly watching something you've already planned out and executed to play out. In a game where you do a ton of very samey fighting this gets old real fast.
No one internally says "fuck yeah" when characters slowly waddle around, constantly pauses between everything they do, play out small animations and such again and again and again for over the 5000th time. Everything is slow for no good reason, not skippable and saddled with tons of grinding.

>>3854711
The point, since you missed it, is that just because you don't like something it doesn't mean everyone doesn't as well. This game is not for you, it's for people that enjoy characters marching in place and slowly winning battles.

>>3854713
>bog standard blind fanboy reply

Nevermind, I knew I shouldn't have given you a serious reply. Please lead with "I'm a blind fanboy" next time so people don't waste their time.

>>3854716
Don't waste people's time acting as if your shit opinion is some absolute truth.

>>3854706
Was this thematized in the prequel?

>>3854718
Try better bait, we already know you're trolling now. The game being slow, unskippable and having grind are all facts. This is not something you can deny. If you for some reason love it, that's on you. Just like how eating shit is your personal kink.
Stop being so easily triggered by someone daring to say something that can be interpreted as negative because you emotionally attach yourself to a game. You're factually a blind fanboy.

>>3854722
>The game being unskippable
Go play something skippable you enjoy. I don't care about your "facts" or any conclusions you drew based on your personal tastes. The rest of your post is imaginary ad hominem copes. You defaulted to those in a blink of an eye when someone dared laugh at your pointless post.

>>3854722
>severe midwittery
Bruh, you said you don’t like the game, he said he does like the game and it’s not for you, and you sperg out about “um akshually you’re objectively wrong and just being a fanboy. Triggered!” What the hell is wrong with you?

>>3854707
>The combat or surrounding systems were never complex or super deep
Deeper than most of its peers.
>poor pacing of the combat makes playing the games a slog
It could be better. But you cannot point to a single game that does everything good that FFT does, but lacks its relatively minor flaws.

>>3854808
>Deeper than most of its peers.
Better, too.
>no better game
Yop. If we are lucky, we are getting few tactics games before 2030. I might try lost eidolons veil. Other than that there's no trpg in the horizon. All the others are known inside out by me.

>>3854628
oh boy, imagine thinking that the people here who post about video games have played the games

>>3854808
>Deeper than most of its peers.
It's not. Mechanically actually playing the game is extremely shallow. Whatever depth you think it has comes from just grinding out jobs to minmax like with ninjas and slap on OP gear.
>But you cannot point to a single game that does everything good that FFT does, but lacks its relatively minor flaws.
The strengths of FTT is in the music and narrative, not the gameplay.

>>3854838
Yeah all those people that keep replaying it over the years and making mods just enjoy the music and the narrative they can consume elsewhere. What a genuine fucking retard.

>>3854836
Posercore is becoming mainstream.

>>3854838
>It's not.
You didn't list a single game with deeper combat.
It's very safe to conclude you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>3854838
are you a fire emblem fag?

I'm convinced this entire genre is a game you have on your 2nd monitor. Maybe a kid could have the patience for it alone. But damn you need a podcast for these games or something

>>3855141
Tell me you’re a zoomer without telling me you’re a zoomer

>>3855141
I highly recommend not playing anything in this genre if you have room temperature I.Q., which appears to be the case here

>>3855446
Is room temperature not 21? I thought it was 21. This is deeply concerning

>>3855472
>I'm just pretending to be retarded

>>3854962
>You didn't list a single game with deeper combat.
xcom (94)

>>3855141
shut your mouth you zooming little shit! Go play fortnite or some other free to play, skin gloating tencent/china shill game.

>>3855141
>Has less patience then a child
Genuinely sad.

>>3854962
>You didn't list a single game with deeper combat.
Are you honestly saying bog standard grid based movement with the most simplistic positioning (hint, always attack the back and then the enemy will do the same to you), very limited actions (mainly attack normally) is somehow deep and complex? That it is BY FAR the deepest and most complex turn based combat system ever made?

Even the Disgaea series is 100x more deeper and complex if you're just looking at something in the same vein.
The fuck is wrong with this site and the delusional fanboys it attracts.

>any criticism raised against fft
>defence force flings out insults only, nothing else
kek

>>3855732
NTA but I grew up playing xcom, TFTD, and FFT (or fast Fourier transform, as we called it at the time). They’re about the same in terms of tactical depth. Xcom has a lot more RNG dependency. Whoops all your dudes from the first half of the game suck at PSI better start over. By the late game your force is homogenized, everyone will be in flying suits and have a heavy plasma. Maybe a couple token blaster launchers for meme flattening the map or punching through a UFO wall

>>3855857
The strategic layer of xcom is definitely deeper, but that’s because FFT doesn’t really have much of a strategic layer.

anyone know how I learn Forbidden Dance? im playing the remake.

>>3852047
Make sure auto battle is turned off in the settings. Besides specific story missions, you should have full control over your party

>>3855853
>That it is BY FAR the deepest and most complex turn based combat system ever made?
This is a straw man.
You're not making intelligent posts or adding anything to the discussion, you're just saying stupid things about FFT to piss people off. The challenge to list other "peer" games that would

>bog standard grid based movement with the most simplistic positioning
Very few games do fully-rotatable 3D maps

>(hint, always attack the back and then the enemy will do the same to you)
There's much more to the game than positioning front vs back. Even when the back is accessible, there are various tradeoffs to consider. You might not want to expose your own flank. You might want to conserve CT. You may have access to abilities that ignore front/side defenses. The simple feature (different front/side/rear defenses) enables a range of combat choices given the wide variety of equipment, abilities and terrain that may be in play. That is literally depth.

>Even the Disgaea series is 100x more deeper and complex if you're just looking at something in the same vein.
So, you have managed to list one(1) game. Which is basically THE one grid-based tactical game with rotating 3D maps that isn't FFT. You claim it is 100x deeper but can't articulate even one reason why to make the discussion interesting. In other words, you're just a shitposter who doesn't play games.

Disgaea also has a very different tone and style. FFT doesn't feature demon lolis, for example. This means there's plenty of room in the market for both.

>>3855732
xcom is great but it's a slightly different niche from FFT. I wouldn't say better or worse it just has a different emphasis. Larger maps with more walls and structures but less vertical depth, more units, mission-oriented battles and more long-term strategy. FFT uses RPG-style hand-to-hand combat encounters, fewer units and smaller maps with more vertical depth.

Jagged Alliance 2 is another good mission-oriented tacticsl game.

>>3855855
Posts with actual criticism might get rebuttals
Empty shitposts get insults.
Pretty simple. If you can't figure it out you might be retarded. But that's most posters on /vrpg/ so you're in good company.

The only correct way to play FFT is either with the original Japanese or the original North American localization. Why you might ask? You get the game how it was meant to be played and in addition a better experience.
>Job requirements were needlessly increased in WotL and carried over to the current year demake. Dark Knight and Onion Knight classes added.
The Job requirement increases only increases the need for grinding just to use a particular job. DK/OK can never be played unless you intentional grind for them. In the original you can unlock most of the classes worth using with minimal grinding and spend most of the time doing story missions. You also only need to grind if you feel underleveled in the original. The total number of classes in the original is rich enough for a lot of replay without adding in a class that does nothing different from unique classes and a second class that does literally nothing.
>concise translation over pointlessly verbose translation
WotL's script purposely uses unnecessarily verbose flowery prose to "emulate Shakespeare," when for the most part the original localization did a good enough job in spite of some translation mistakes. Now the writing is a mess.
>Lack of nu-items which can only be acquired through time grinding
The inclusion of certain things like Agrias' birthday lipstick were a mistake and add nothing to the game. Moreover, acquiring them just results in more grinding.
>No multiplayer mode
A good thing. FFT was intended to be a single player experience delivering its creator's story.
>No slop AI upscaling
All upscaling looks terrible.

Emulate the original. Use a CRT overlay to smooth out the pixels. And there you go.

>>3852043 (OP)
No, it's not an ai game, fuck off.

The political intrigue and storylines in general is fantastic.

The job system coupled with the tactical turn based combat allows for endless strategizing.

The art is charming.

It's a fucking classic and you're a child.

>>3857055
What is DK/OK?

>>3857789
NTA but
>Dark Knight and Onion Knight classes added.

>>3857055
Only thing I miss in the PSX version is WOTL's expanded roster.

>>3857055
>>No multiplayer mode
A bit off topic but why were they trying to force this back in 7th gen. The Disgaea 1 PSP port would also add some kind of multiplayer too.

FFT Remixed is objectively the best way to play the game. The guys at FFHacktics should work on the next inevitable remake/port

>>3858101
>FFT Remixed is objectively
Stopped reading here

>>3858103
Your loss

>>3858101
I do like a lot of the FFHacktics changes to wotl, such as overhauling the move-find items, having all stolen/broken gear able to be purchased back at the poaching den, able to send unique characters like Agrias on errands, and some of the optional stuff (fixed levels on random battles, no random battles unless stopping on a random battle node, starting with zero mana with move-mana up) is fun too. My only nitpick is perhaps they make it a little too easy with being able to spend JP to earn Ultima and Zodiark, but it's minor overall. I do hope they decide to make that sort of patch to the IC game.

>>3858111
I read the rest of the post and he didn't miss anything.

>>3858115
>FFHacktics changes to wotl
>they decide
FFHacktics isn't a modder. FFHacktics is the whole community.

>>3858752
I’m the community, and I’ll continue to emulate the PSX original, thank you.

>>3858835
What does that have to do with what I said? I ain't touching the remake until I can mod it like I can the PSX as well.

>>3852054
>snow
I got stuck in that battle against the guy who killed Delita's sister for two days, all because I refused to farm EXP.
Not even save state could help when three hits from him would kill anyone.
Thankfully, he seemed to like targeting Ramza, so I managed to kill the others while he kept trying to kill Ramza, who had two potion throwers dedicated to him (I forgot the class name—chemist?).
I think I burned through twenty or thirty potions, which seems cheap and changed my play style for a bit (until the first demon who one hit everyone, who I somehow defeated by spamming Agrias' skill).
I don't think I could have done that without being able to reload the save before the battle.

>>3852248
Strangle Tragedy?