As much as playing as the big guys of history the likes of France or Rome is fun in its own way, I'm allured to civs that were less of main characters. Ones that weren't so lucky iirl or had every odds thrown against them. Stuff like playing pagan tribes in CK2, Welsh in TW:Medieval, Hittites in civ3, Bohemians in AoE2 and, if we're going into even more fictional territory, I did enjoy making American Dakota kingdom from Rushmore county surrounded by natives in CK2's mod After the End. I guess I just like going against odds and history. Making empires from the bottom than repeating already existing ones.
What's your opinion? Do you have any underdog/obscure civ you're always happy to turn into powerhouse whenever you have occasion?

>>2036703 (OP)
>literally just the british empire in green with the south east cut out

If I have the option to play as Scotland, I will conquer the world as Scotland.
Of course, I'm Scottish (for a Burger), so that's probably no surprise.
Personally, I also really just like when historical games give me opportunities to learn about cultures I'm not familiar with. Like, Mali basically has its own King Arthur story with Sundiata Keita. I think that's cool as hell.

>>2036703 (OP)
This is my fetish. I like playing as Kurds when possible and giving them their country, or taking the shittiest backwater uncontacted tribe and trying to be relevant

>>2037018
I don't play as Kurds, but I often play as Byzantines in Crusader Kings and I like to give the Kurds (and other minor cultures in the region) their own little satrapies in my territory.

>>2036703 (OP)
I like Aquitaine

I often larp that Aquitaine, resisting the pressures of the albigensian crusade in the 1200s, survives as an independent or semi-autonomous realm. Perhaps with foreign alliances (like with Aragon or even England), it avoids being absorbed into the French crown. Over the centuries, it evolves into a powerful, distinct kingdom, with a flourishing Occidental culture, tolerant religious policies, and a Mediterranean focused economy.

By the time of the Napoleonic Wars, Aquitaine is still a strong, sovereign state and possibly even more liberal or modernized than monarchic France. A personal union or strategic alliance with post-revolutionary France (maybe through a marriage or joint constitution) forms a Franco-Aquitainian Union—a “dual monarchy” or even early federation, blending Parisian centralism with Aquitainian regionalism.

I fucking love Münster in EU4.

>>2036703 (OP)
My personal favorite is Armenian for some reason.
Whenever they're available to play as it's on.

>>2037018
How often do you even get to play as Kurds? I feel even in Paradox's titles they're at best a formable nation.

>>2036878
And the funny part is Britain has always been the underdog so would fit OP's requirement. It's certainly a low tier country in EUIV.

>>2037102
england has never been the underdog, it's always been the strongest power on the british isles

>>2037105
>always been the strongest power on the british isles
it got conquered like eight different times.

>>2036988
Medieval 2 was a fun example of Scots. Their infantry heavy army was interesting and the Highland Rabble was pretty kino. Random ass Germanic tribes in Rome 2 felt kino in a similar way and is closer to home for me.

Medieval 2 had the Aztecs and other American factions too who were definitely underdogs too. No cavalry, stone age tech, all units have half the hit points of the basic Spanish militia and no armor. Completely different play style. There was a similar thing in Civ 5 and it's Africa scenario where you could play as the Zulu who had spearmen go up against modern muskets, but had home field advantage and different goals to make up for it.

>>2037102
>Britain has always been the underdog
Literally when in the last thousand years

>>2037106
5 times, a thousand years ago or more

>>2037050
I remember how annoying it was to make strong Ireland in EU3 because the whole island was just 5 provinces.

>>2037102
>>2037105
England was underdog at some point but saying it has always been one is ridiculous. Rome also was underdog before it took over Italy. Great powers don't come out of nowhere.

>>2037038
giving out land to the infidels, heckin wholesome

>>2036703 (OP)
I'm Czech, so of course I picked Czechoslovakia for my first game of HoI4
Told the germans to fuck off
Never played a second game

>>2036703 (OP)
>Missing the opportunity to keep England within the "united kingdom of ireland" but as an unaccepted culture that will eventually break off in revolt because of several generations of abuse

>>2036703 (OP)

Always try to play his civ the first chance i get

>Victoria II releases
>Play as Texas because this is probably one of the only official non-civil war games that would let me do so
>Drive back the Mexicans after a few attempts
>Sitting on a unified lone star state sandwiched between Mexico and the USA, who hates me

>Try to think of something unique to do that would be somewhat historical
>Realize I can only really blob in various directions
>Conquer New Mexico, Arizona, and California before I just call it a day

It was exciting and then underwhelming right afterwards. I eventually modded in the Adelsverein and started making shit up, like tensions between the German and English population in the state eventually causing a civil war.

>>2037072
not very often, it's mostly in CK2 and V2
It's extremely painful in Victoria but you get the real underdog experience

>>2037186
Wouldn't be better to play medieval game? Better chance at making Czech empire. In fact iirc Bohemia often turned into major power on its own in EU3. Can't speak for EU4. I haven't played it.

>>2037200
Dunno, the way Swiss beat his army and his downfall was pretty kino. It made me wish for inclusion of Swiss in AoE2 so it could be tackled in a campaign.

>>2036703 (OP)
In grand strategy games it's often boring to play as the big nations because they start out so strong the game feels over from the moment you begin. Depending on the game there might also be too much stuff to manage in a big empire that's more fun to do at small scale where you can micromanage your empire more effectively.

>>2037176
>infidels
if they don’t have their own flavor of christianity like armenians or ethiopians i convert them to orthodoxy
the empire is not without magnanimity

>>2037124
I think the closest you get is during either the anglo-spanish war, the war of spanish succession or the napoleonic wars.

Even then, no.

>>2037530
>anglo-spanish war
Probably the closest they've gotten.
>the war of spanish succession
Ehh their role was largely interventionist to stopgap a Franco-Iberion union, but even then it was a coalition of nations not some plucky underdog being bullied around
>the napoleonic wars
Honestly comedic considering this was the true beginning of the supermassive British Empire and Britain got the lions share out of the peace settlement in the end.

>>2037573
>Honestly comedic considering this was the true beginning of the supermassive British Empire and Britain got the lions share out of the peace settlement in the end.
Yeah, but that's only because they actually won. If the continental system had held then most likely you don't get British ascendency

>>2037651
>Yeah, but that's only because they actually won
Even without the peace settlement the British had seized all of the dutch colonies, France was facing the Spanish Ulcer and the continental system was always untenable to enforce for Napoleon and even if it had persisted Britain would likely have just shifted towards a bigger domestic agricultural production to offset the embargo.

>>2037530
>>2037573
Napoleon comes of more like the underdog of the Napoleonic Wars to me since it was basically the whole continent against him.

>>2037216
First learned about the hussites and their warwagons while playing EU2 years ago. Didn't attempt to conquer all german lands as them tho.

>>2037137
You are confusing Münster with Munster, anon!

>>2038182
As Czech? You don't learn about these things in school? Or are you a different anon?

>>2037058
Gotta love those cav archers.

>>2038186
Oh yeah, who could confuse these two? For real now, why Münster of all HRE counties?

>>2037679
You can't be the underdog if you're the super power no matter how many people gang up on you

>>2038330
this doesn't make any sense
look up what an underdog is

>>2036703 (OP)
Russia is definitely an underdog so I play them when I can

>>2036703 (OP)
I like to play as Scotland and emulate the Dutch by creating a trading empire focused on the East Indies while developing Scotland and Ulster(planted)

>>2037124
The Hundred Years War. England was estimated to have a third of France's economy yet put in a very good showing before economic reality won out and they got BTFO.

>>2038319
I like playing as theocracies and it has really neat ideas for it. Also it is easy to get coastline for trade and overseas ambitions.

>>2037573
>>2037530
England was absolutely the underdog during the Spanish-Anglo War and its earlier antagonisms against Spain. It was a complete miracle the Spanish Armada was defeated because if they landed it would have been completely over. Spain was the biggest and most formidable empire in the world at the time, at least in Europe. England was just England without even a steady and reliable Scotland until James I and VI. Also, England was the underdog in the HYW. France outstripped snd outmatched England several times over on paper and early battles were complete upsets. There were upsets even as late as Agincourt, which the English would have lost under different leaders. Those are probably the two main examples. They only really eclipsed their rivals by the mid 1700s and were somewhat even between 1588 and then.

>>2038520
>dog

>>2039032
>not focusing on darien
ngmi

>>2036703 (OP)
Pretty much any of the butthurt belt nations work for this. East of Germany and Italy but West of Russia and the Turks? Any of those are a good pick.

>>2036703 (OP)
I enjoy these kinds of maps but this "Irish Empire" is almost just offensive.

>>2043338
The most offensive thing about most of these? Using Modern Borders for a divergent timeline hundreds of years in the past.

>>2036703 (OP)
That's pretty much all I do in EU4. Even if I play a major historical power, it's to do something different from what they did historically.

Bulgaria in the world wars is pretty tragic. Join one side, beat all the minor power neighbours you're at war with, sit pretty for a year or two and then some major power from the other side comes to push you over.
Also the second Balkan war is just insane and the ultimate argument against monarchism. If their (German) king hadn't declared an impossible war for a dubious reason, they would have kept all the red and orange parts.

>>2037102
>And the funny part is Britain has always been the underdog so would fit OP's requirement
Only Pre-Norman England.

>>2037124
If it weren't for a hurricane, the British would have been couped by the Spanish. Hell, they WERE couped by the Dutch in the so-called "Glorious Revolution" less than a century later. Japan is in the same exact boat, funnily enough, only it took two hurricanes to keep the Mongols at bay.

>>2036703 (OP)
What a boring and unimaginative althist, just making a knockoff British empire.
Instead of that, it is far more interesting for Ireland to build the Empire in Europe, reunite with their Lusatian, Eusakdi and Bretonic brethren and drive out the filthy indo europeans.

>>2043338
>polish liberia
dare I say, based?

>>2047581
>have two empires and golden ages
>get conquered by ottomans and lose independent for half a millennium which throws you into complete obscurity
Bulgarians had it tough.

>>2036703 (OP)
That map kind of emphasises one of my main issues with playing a smaller country in a game (or at least Paradox ones). Once you get to a certain point after the fight for survival. There's nothing to do but emulate what the bigger more successful country near them in real life did. That celt wank is just a less successful British empire, Burgundy would always have to transition into being either France or the Netherlands, etc.

>>2037200
Unfathomably based.

>>2050745
It's all the Mongolians fault. Similar shit happened to Hungary, Poland and Georgia. On the morning of a golden age, Mongols fuck shit up and leave. Then the Ottomans and Russians (Sons of Mongolia) came to salt the earth.
Sidenote, isn't it fucked up Mongols can just have a statue of Genghis and nobody gives a damn? Scandis selling little plush Viking toys. And pirates are almost synonymous with kiddie shit these days. In a thousand years, Germans will have a big statue of Hitler and sell plushie Dirlewanger dolls to tourist children.

>>2053503
You say like you wouldn't buy it yourself.

>>2053862
Let's be real, a Dirlewanger plushie would be too funny to pass up on.

>>2053862
i need something to keep my george floyd plushie company

>>2054023
>do you think that... in another life... we could have been friends?

>>2053503
>inb4 muh ecelebs
yeah but this is a fun video on the topic https://youtu.be/jat6cQXTDVU?si=0duNYGZ8UKIPKjEQ
the mongols really fucked everything up

I like Poland. In almost all settings except that point when they were removed from the map they occupy prime Euro estate but are expected to fight everyone tooth and nail for it which is pretty cool.

>>2055182
>that point when they were removed from the map
there's like 5 of those

>>2055182
>prime Euro estate
that would be western europe, piotr

>>2036703 (OP)
My favorite underdog nation in strategy games is Denmark (although they aren't always a massive underdog), I like to unite Scandinavia under them and colonize. I also like playing as any obscure Chinese warlord and minor German state. Serbia, Croatia, or Yugoslavia can also be pretty fun.

>>2043338
I always find alternate timelines where Baltic or Mediterranean countries keep their overseas colonies to be unbelievable because all it would take is for a moderately-sized navy to blockade the Strait of Gibraltar or Danish Straits to cut off access to their colonies and seize them. It would only really work if the colonies were developed enough to be self-sufficient and defend themselves. I like that Paradox (and some Total War) games actually simulate this to some degree, just park part your big navy in the straits then ship your army to your enemy's colonies.
Courland only had a few islands in the Carribean and by the time Italy was colonizing Somalia there were two exits to the Mediterranean and they had a pretty big navy to secure at least one.
In an alt-his PLC, they probably would've expanded further along Pomerania and maybe even into Denmark or Sweden to secure control over the Danish Straits, but I think the more realistic scenario would be the PLC just expanding into Tartar-controlled Crimea, trying to make the Triple Commonwealth happen, and just later expanding across the Pontic Steppe and Sibera like OTL Russia did.

>>2036703 (OP)
Albania in eu4, I love getting an alliance with hungary and austria and going to war with the other balkan nations for territory to be able to fight the ottos. Then having to fight the ottos head on at their prime is also cool.
In ck2 I love playing the pagans in estonia in the 1066 start date as its a cool playthrough as you will have to be quick about making the kingdom and empire to absorb all the pagans left while the christians haven't yet crusaded you.
Then you must feudalize and gather enough money to fight crusades all the while having to deal with people to your east growing their kingdoms and attacking you, in the 1200s you are front face to the mongols so just a fun campaign place as western europe tends to get boring after the early game and byzantium campaigns are boring as its just faction after faction rising up against you.

>>2048054
completely incorrect, anglo-saxon britian post alfred the great was the most centralized and wealthy kingdom in all of europe. That is precisely why it was constantly invaded by vikings and then drew the interest of the most militaristically exceptional state in all of europe at the time, the normans, and even then it was a very close run thing.

>>2037200

>>2036703 (OP)
USA

>>2036988
>Personally, I also really just like when historical games give me opportunities to learn about cultures I'm not familiar with
That's the best part about historical games that often goes understated. The usual power fantasy as the big players of the time is fun and all, but there's so much potential to learn about other cultures you'd never be exposed to, otherwise.

>>2036878
No it’s not. It’s different.

>>2047581
yeah, it's da crazy german king who declared war on it's allies and not said allies refusing to honor agreements of a nation holding too much of contested territories

>>2055215
>I like that Paradox (and some Total War) games actually simulate this to some degree, just park part your big navy in the straits then ship your army to your enemy's colonies.
With Paradox you get the entirety of the Spanish or Portuguese army being halfway around the world or stuck in Naples at best giving you free reign to siege down their homeland.

>>2055047
>Great man theory is outdated
Way to open the video with a shit take.

>>2058258
ywnbagm

>>2058258
easy way to weed out the chuds

>>2058258
the entire rest of the video is one huge defence of great man theory. you need to calm down.

>>2043338
>Polish gauchos
VGH!

>>2058258
>nooo I need muh great daddy theory! stop insulting my strongman daddies!
Why are chuds like this?

>>2037200

>If he won

>>2037114
Ngl i always played Natives like a huge army of cavalry, i remember encountering 4 full armies of brits as Spain so i went around hiring as many native mercs as i could and just bumrushed their cannons and shiet, spaniards to hold the line and natives to hammer them in it was fun as hell

>>2037105
>it's always been the strongest power on tutorial island
Romans, Vikings, Normans, couldn't stop Scottish or Welsh raids for hundreds of years, crowned a Scotsman as King, "defeated" the Spanish Armada by sailing around until the Spanish sailors hit some rocks, has never actually annexed Wales or Scotland as they are their own countries and supports their independence, lost most of an island to some drunk car bombers and has absolved them of all their crimes in perpetuity.

>>2037124
Last thousand? Hm.
Well we can agree that an underdog is about punching up, right? So we're looking for examples of being weak or not strong, and if winning it's because of circumstance or luck, right?
>1066, England versus Normandy
>Hundred Years War, Agincourt, and actually won the war until dysentery said no, France was France, had real knights, crossbows and God on their side
That is peak underdog
>Spanish Armada, biggest joke in English naval history, rocks lmao
>any continental war
>only joined with Scotland because the stars aligned, Scotland can always leave and England can do nothing about it
>the last kingdom to colonise anything, Spain and France had already gotten the good stuff
Do I need to point out the meaning of the phrase, "American Steel, Soviet Blood and British Intelligence"?
Do I need to bring up Britain and the Soviets in the Cold War?
Do I need to say China should genuinely be embarrased about the Opium wars and even the sick man of Europe, Spain, could have done it? Or that India was an accident?
That Britain's fragile house of cards was always doomed to fall as soon as other countries industrialised, and if it's not obvious the US owns the UK today and its navy?
Literally lost thirteen whole colonies because France decided to have a short war.

I'm half exaggerating with all of this but England is a paper tiger hiding behind a moat. Always has been, always will. That's just how island nations work.

>>2038347
Look up the army sizes. France is FRANCE.

>>2060434
>tfw when blank slate mentioned

>>2036703 (OP)
Denmark. I like to play them as combination of real world England and Sweden.