https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-31-11th-of-july-2025-aztecs.1837805/

Hello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will take a look at the flavour content for the Aztecs! Let’s start without further ado:

For the past two centuries, groups of Nahua people descended from the Chichimec migrated to central Mexico from their legendary ancestral home, known as Aztlan. Our people were one of those wandering groups.

As with many other Nahua nations, we settled our own Altepetl. It was named Tenōchtitlan, and we built it over an artificial island in the heart of Lake Texcoco. Our most prominent figures were also influenced by the Toltec culture, and we started to develop a refined civilization in the lagoon. We would also come to be recognized as prime fighters by our neighbors, as our equally refined warring skills make Aztec armies a force to be feared...

However, we currently stand as vassals of the Altepetl of Tepanecapan, our expansion possibilities are limited to the proximities of the lagoon we inhabit. Only an intelligent leader can lead us in our journey to subdue the valley of Mexico and beyond.

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D and 3D Art as WIP.

Before we start, you may notice that we have reconfigured the Country Selection Panel a bit, and that we now have a new tab called ‘Content’, where we’re grouping the unique features and content available to each country:

Please take into consideration that the first screenshot is the most zoomed-in map that we’ve ever shared with you, in a very difficult area from a geographical point of view. Therefore, please consider it as the usual WIP stuff, as it’s already on our radar to make some improvements here and there to make it look better.

Mexico may prove to be a very difficult area to expand in…

The Nahua countries start with a unique government reform, the Altepetl, that nudges towards expanding through subjects, and also slave-raiding (which is also linked to the Nahua Ritualism mechanic of sacrificing slaves, as we saw last Wednesday):

There are also a couple of Privileges available to countries that practice Nahua Ritualism:

And also attached to Nahua Ritualism, a unique building that unlocks two unique units, the infamous Jaguar and Eagle Warriors:

And a unique Sumptuary Law, with two available policies:

Here you have some of the unique Advances of the Aztecs:

Although most of the content related to the Aztecs is very attached to the Nahua Ritualism features, and thus, is very mechanical, there are still some non-generic, non-religious related DHEs available for them:

And well, a final boss to deal with:

… And much more, but that’s all for today! Next week we’ll have a Tinto Maps Feedback on Monday, a Tinto Talks on Wednesday, and Tinto Flavour on Friday:

Tinto Maps Feedback for Indonesia
Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Inti & Folk Religions
Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Inca

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!

>>2090853
>Tinto Maps Feedback for Indonesia
>Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Inti & Folk Religions
>Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Inca
they really want to kill the hype

>>2090853
>Tinto Maps Feedback for Indonesia
>Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Inti & Folk Religions
>Friday -> Tinto Flavour about the Inca

Eurasia bros... it's over.

>>2090846
>we want to encourage expanding through subjects
>+1 diplomatic capacity

>>2090884
They already went through most of it and are probably finishing off with the Americas and maybe Africa now.

>>2090930
Did you miss
>Disallows Taking Land in Peace Treaties: Yes
pretty ham-fisted honestly, I think this just means the optimal strat for unifying the region will be to play as someone else and change primary cultures

>>2090842 (OP)
I swear the Aztecs are a culture where you only hate them more when you learn more about them. They ate people and wore the skin of little girls. In a way it is almost sad though with the theories that this blood shit started because of a previously glorious civilization collapsing. Regardless, I am glad that Paradox is not sugarcoating these beasts.

>>2090962
All of the Nahua city states willl have it most likely. After all these were city states not proper countries.

>Make simulationist game
>Implement the collapse of pre-columbian america as an unavoidable cataclysm
>Still waste your time making content for tags that will get butchered as soon as europeans contact them
Why?

>Any flavor for any other Mesoamerican countries?
>Anything for the conflict with Tlatelolco?
>Anything for arranging for Acamapichtli, with his Culhua-Mexica background and thus Toltec descent, to take over as the first proper Tlatoani?
>Will I be able to send my pochteca merchants out as spies or as a stepping stone to conquest/subjugation? Sometimes (for instance in Soconusco and Coixtlahuaca) the locals harassed/expelled the pochteca, which drew the empire into a conflict sooner than might have otherwise happened. Tenochtitlan also supposedly sent pochteca as far as Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica.
> Is there any flavour for Tlaxcala and Purepecha?

1. No, we have centered most of the Mesoamerican flavour around the different Tonal religions for a reason, which is to make it possible for most of the countries to have some mechanics/features/content to interact with. And as we had a limitation of around 60 countries to add unique content for, the only one that we focused about was the Aztecs.
2. There's an event or two, yes.
3. I think not, making a note about it.
4.
5. Hmm, not as of now.

>Why no country-related DHEs? You mentioned them in the post

It's still there, although not entirely sure if the position is WAD, or a bug; I already reported it to our UI team, to take a look at:

>You should make the localisation for Mesoamerican counties (with the Altepetl reform) localised as Āltepētl, like "Āltepētl of Tenōchtitlan"; and the ruler as Tlahtoāni, like here he would be "Tlahtoāni Tenōch", most likely.

Like this?:

>>2090967
New World civilizations are just like the Old World but without a 4,000 year head start. Mesopotamian settlements in 6,000 BC had permanent agriculture, granaries, and irrigation already. The Mesoamericans were still just beginning to build permanent villages 3,000 years later. They simply started too late. Their ancestors were simply too successful as hunter-gatherers for too long, their development was delayed by millennia.
Imagine a European from 1500 AD giving an account of some European, Middle Eastern, or Asian culture from 2500 BC. They too were eating people and sacrificing children. It'd look a lot like the accounts of the Aztecs. It's hardly their fault, they just didn't have the time to develop beyond that point before the old world showed up and obliterated them.

>So what does the adopt omenotl decision do? I dont think you went over it

PS: Made a minor loc fix, the final sentence now reads as 'We will worship Ometeotl as the only God.'

>Can you show us the tonal religion modifiers please?

Oh, a policy that I forgot to show

>They haven't even implemented the Aztec IO
And retards though it was releasing this year. I was right Spring 2026 at the earliest.

>>2091006
I mean, there is something to say about decadence. East Asia is a very good example. They were almost too successful for too long, then the 18th and 19th century hit where the fruits of European conquest really ripened. Only one nation (Japan) managed navigate it by essentially being the first to conquer what little was left. Europeans essentially sailed around the world finding nations stuck in some degree of decadence. I really hope Paradox models this better in EU5. The reasons the Europeans would want to conquer everything, and the reasons the other societies were content. Unifying Mesoamerica or China or whatever should feel like you've done a world conquest. If you have a lot of resources and are rich, you should have no incentive to conquer others and instead enjoy building up your industry, wealth, and population. European gameplay on the other hand should feel like a constant race. Possibly even forcing you into dangerous situations to try to keep your country alive.

>Tenochtitlan isn't an island
it's so fucking over 0/10 won't be buying this trash

>>2091006
>They simply started too late.
Time is not the only factor in these things. They had a different set of values, a different way to perceive the world and a different way to codify their taboos, and that might change depending on environmental or political factors but those rarely behave linearly.
I agree with the rest of the post, though.

>>2091006
weren't the aztecs so egregious that even their human sacrificing neighbors would do anything to have them taken down, which was why it was so easy for the spanish to ally with all of them against the aztecs?

>>2090967
To play devil's advocate, the aztecs were not only about sacrifices, they had quite advanced botanical & astronomical studies and their water management & sanitation infrastructure was top tier.

>>2090967
Objectively, what's so wrong about killing your enemies in an altar instead of in battle? It isn't like european or asian wars (which unlike mesoamerican conflicts weren't mostly ritualistic and thus resulted in gorillions of civilians dying) didn't have casualties.

>>2091069
Didn't the Mayans also have a lot of these things? Probably just developments of whatever preceded both of them.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-maps-6-great-britain-ireland-feedback.1745696/page-36#post-30603258

A sketch of reworked population based largely on @Vispian 's posts in the previous thread, thoughts?

>>2091083
What do the pink stripes in East Anglia stand for?

>>2091073
It wasn't just prisoners of war, it was their own civilians too. Including slaves or people forced into slavery, not just those who "volunteered" to be sacrificed. Even if you put all morals aside this is just stupid, these peoples were wasting tons of resources raising healthy children to adulthood then massacring them for no reason, in a time when child mortality was through the roof. The stupidity of it is profane without even getting into moralizing.

Charitably you might look at it as a form of population control combined with enforcing hierarchy. But look around the world and you'll find countless ways of doing that which don't involve disemboweling innocent people in public displays.
Of course you will find many civilizations that also did that, but they always left it behind or marginalized their flavor of "human sacrifice" to very specific circumstances (e.g. burying a Chinese emperor with his concubines)

And even in those cases, it at least serves some real purpose. For example, some Chinese lords performed executions in which the condemned was boiled in a vat of oil. But the condemned would be someone like an egregious criminal, e.g. a traitor. In other words, the purpose was to kill the guy, and the brutal method of death was considered a punishment, and a deterrent to others telling them not to copy his behavior. That kind of thing happens even to this day.

Whereas in the Aztec case, they were flaying people alive and ripping their hearts out to... preserve the sun? It didn't actually do anything. So they were senselessly throwing people in a meat grinder, many of them people they didn't even want to kill, and on top of that they set the meat grinder to the "extra slow" setting. It's tragically stupid. The cultural relativism some people get into about it is almost as stupid. No, there is no merit to massacring random people and mutilating them as they die.

>>2091084
i tink it's just the province has been sieged down

>>2091073
The Mesoamericans still had wars. Flowers wars were relatively new and didn't stop wars of expansion and conquests either. Some historians think they weren't even for captives as capturing captives was done during normal war time too but to slowly wear down the Tlaxcalans who the Aztecs couldn't conquer totally for some reason. Though such isn't the majority opinion.

>>2091083
Damn, everything but England is a shithole, huh

i want to play the game....

>>2091084
From India's original Tinto Maps:

India has a big population. To be precise, around 95M pops. Delhi is the second largest country in the world in population, with 41M pops, which makes it a behemoth, with very serious governance challenges. I’m also showing this week the progress we’re making with the coloring of the population mapmode; the stripes on several locations mark that they’re overpopulated, as they have more pops living on them than the pop capacity available (something that may be reviewed, as balancing very densely populated regions such as India or China is really challenging).

>>2091087
>preserve the sun?
They thought it did though. If you really believe the sun needs your heart then you do so or the world ends. And I say this as someone who's been fighting the Aztec shills on the forums. On top of that it wasn't randoms. Nobles would offer themselves up or their kids up. You'd have bureaucrats connected to the Tlatoani offering themselves up. Slaves did happen obviously but the whole point was offering up your heart's strength in emulation of the sun himself so you wanted the strongest and bravest sacrifices and a ruler who offered up nothing but crying slaves was shrugging their duty. I agree though people are downplaying their horribleness and there's a reason none of the core beliefs of the people survived. When people talk about syncretism it's almost always limited to festival events merged with Christian iconography. The core beliefs have been entirely discarded and desu the Nahua faith was one tied to the state. You can't have mass sacrifices without a king to secure them.

>>2091080
>whatever preceded both of them
Space aliens.

>>2091093
Yeah lol. Something like half the population of the British Isles lives in southern England. Ireland used to hold another 2/10 or 3/10 even before tge potato but has never recovered since the famine. Everywhere else is ass land.

>>2091083
I get a feeling almost every game will end up with Ireland being 90% English.

>>2091116
Why the India and China are so populous? I dont nay-say, I am just amazed

>>2091147
Good rivers along fertile land and a good staple crop in terms of sheer calories. Also India and China re bigger in size than you think in the first place.

>>2091087
>Whereas in the Aztec case, they were flaying people alive and ripping their hearts out to... preserve the sun? So they were senselessly throwing people in a meat grinder, many of them people they didn't even want to kill, and on top of that they set the meat grinder to the "extra slow" setting. It's tragically stupid. The cultural relativism some people get into about it is almost as stupid. No, there is no merit to massacring random people and mutilating them as they die.
How is this any different that any of the pointless atrocities committed during the traditional religious war fridays in Europe? Hell, there is no comparable floral conflict or yearly amount of sacrifices that ever came close to the degree of pointless depopulation caused by things like the 30YW. Face it, you pop history amateurs just find the concept of "le bloodthirsty heart eating injuns" attractive, lol.

>>2091147
They are big places (about the size of EU and Europe respectively) and are generally filled with fertile land and good climate that allows multiple harvests a year. Pre industrial communities were categorically population locked at the local food production capacity sans very few cities or industrial sites that warranted bringing food anywhere but the nearby region.

>>2091089
And that was I said mostly, for the most part the aztec hegemony over the valley of Mexico was complete and thus their high intensity wars (as opposed to the ritualistic flower conflicts) were for the most part reduced to their continuous confrontation to reduce Tlaxcala, a somewhat serious frontier conflict with their fellow empire to the west and localized expansionism against minor polities to their east.

>>2091164
And that's why* i, there are other mistakes but that's the most egregious one

>>2090850
This is retarded, I thought it was common knowledge that there was no such thing among Mesoamericans about the return of Quetzalcoatl? That it was a myth that was set up later in colonial times to mythify Cortes. The religion also sucks fucking ass

>>2091180
Nvm, there were some tales about it but almost none at that the time saw the conquistadors as their god, which I’m almost certain paraslop will ignore

>>2091156
Well, to be fair, Europeans didn't have rituals dedicated to torturing children for weeks. You might get infant bashing and civilians being tortured during a particularly bad sack. But it wasn't something widely endorsed and was considered horrific when it happened. The aztecs would watch men, women, and children regularly be tormented in brutal fashion. Then they'd spend the rest of the festival desecrating the corpses. They'd also see absolutely nothing wrong with this. Plenty of places at the time had disgusting practices. A criminal in Europe may have his individual parts displayed on the town pikes. In East Asia, a warrior's head may be presented to a ruler. But all of this stuff was mainly targeted at warriors and criminals. It was also all done to be more menacing, people in those places legitimately found it disgusting. Aztec parents wouldn't shed a tear as the local priest helicopters their child's skin through the air while their neighbors try to catch the blood in their mouth. Some of them would even sign up to be brutally tortured and killed in a public display. Their society pretty much worshipped pain and suffering. There are descriptions of them all being in euphoric crowds as they watched a medieval rekt thread unfold before their eyes. The extent to which their degeneracies went are unimaginable.

>>2091180
>>2091187
It is for the age of absolutism. It is an alternative history thing essentially. Who knows how their society would've developed if they survived that long.

>>2091189
Oh… I didn’t see that. I assumed you’ll get access to it if any old world power arrive in Mesoamerica.

Unrelated but there should be an option as a foreign power when establishing a new dynasty in China to syncretise your religion with sanjiao by adding it as a permanently selected school under it with bonuses, this will also increase conversion of the chinese religion among your primary culture

maybe Cortes fucking up the aztec empire wasn't such a bad thing. Heh

>>2091188
>Aztec parents wouldn't shed a tear as the local priest helicopters their child's skin through the air while their neighbors try to catch the blood in their mouth.
Modernist nonsense, human impulses don't change due to cultural reasons, people still feel things due to basic biological instinct (even assyrian warriors got ptsd). Also, I am unaware of any instance in which the fever dreams you describe took place. Again, you are just trying to reduce millions of people into the hilarious pop cultural equivalent of the temple of doom guy, while at the same time minimizing the extensive history of atrocities committed in the old continent.

>>2091188
>Their society pretty much worshipped pain and suffering. There are descriptions of them all being in euphoric crowds as they watched a medieval rekt thread unfold before their eyes. The extent to which their degeneracies went are unimaginable.

>>2090967
um but the whiteys didn't even know how to bathe chud! (but knew how to build ocean crossing vessels and navigation tools) the wholesome indigenous folx never once waged war against each other

>>2091195
I thought of this myself as well, but the reality is that the games were mostly not the bloody executions depicted in popular culture, and the few events involving actual death were put in the least popular timeslot when the arena had only a few hardcore spectators.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_7
>The previous combats were the essence of compassion; but now all the trifling is put aside and it is pure murder. [...] Many persons prefer this programme to the usual pairs and to the bouts "by request".
i.e., the "usual" fights in the arena were basically duels for show and gladiators wouldn't normally get seriously injured or die.
>In the morning they throw men to the lions and the bears; at noon, they throw them to the spectators. The spectators demand that the slayer shall face the man who is to slay him in his turn; and they always reserve the latest conqueror for another butchering. The outcome of every fight is death, and the means are fire and sword. This sort of thing goes on while the arena is empty.
and in the morning it was mock hunts. The "butchering" was reserved for when hardly anyone was around.

Because those were executions. That is, they were condemned criminals receiving a punishment. Even Seneca who totally denounces these bloody shows doesn't say the criminals shouldn't be executed, merely that the crowd shouldn't have to suffer seeing it, since it corrupts their character, so it's like punishing the public too.

It's like the other anon said, in most places such mutilation would be like a punishment or a public display designed for deterring crime, and the public executions between the games could be thought of like that too.
Whereas the sacrifices are just senseless suffering and death, and the justifications are entirely superstition. That's what gives it a different character imo. It's more similar to Punic child sacrifice. (if that actually existed)

>>2091164
Again no lol. The war continued long past the valley of Mexico it's just that the Aztecs started losing more than they won. The Purepucha and possibly the Tlaxcala themselves being enemies they couldn't defeat. You say as much I know but that's not reduced in anyway way. The Aztecs were an empire like any other. Just one with a dogshit faith in the long term view of things.

>>2091194
He's right though. It was an honour to be sacrificed or at least you were supposed to take it that way. There were punishment for "cowardly" sacrificial offerings so it's not like everyone was ho-hum but we also know of people offering themselves or their families up and how noble and bureaucrat families offered themselves up for advancement. You also got treated as the God you were to be sacrificed too for the time beforehand so it was also personal social elevation for that period. The Aztecs were awful and "the human sacrifice must stop" but it was not only seen as a necessity but it was something with popular participation. Much like the Vikings the better deaths were in battle and sacrifice and the worst was to sickness (the state of your body deciding how high into the heavens you ascend) as well so there was also some afterlife to worry about as well. Like we know it's possible see the Japanese during WW2 for example.

In EU5, will there be any system to simulate how geography limits conquests, or will I have to babysit the AI with console commands like in EU4 to prevent myself form constantly seeing stupid shit like this?

>>2090962
I was more complaining that having a vassal takes up a diplomacy slot.

>>2091311
I think their main focus is on preventing stuff like this. The more complex location systems should help a lot. God that Qi is so fucking stupid. I really hope they also allow exile nations to adopt new tags (maybe even by force if exiled long enough).

>>2091275
>dogshit faith
writing a alt history scenario rn, my question is how readily would buddhism be accepted by states across mesoamerica, what form of buddhism would syncretize best, and what other eastern religion would be readily syncretized too?

>>2091331
Don't know enough about Buddhism to say desu. Give me some archetypes of who converted to what and I may have some idea. There was a "The One" type movement from pseudo-philosophers like Nezahualcoyotl but nothing widespread. The Aztec faith otherwise was what you expect with slightly more festivals and sacrifices of things other than humans (but humans being the most important to keep the sun going , rain falling or whatever else).

>>2091331
Buddhist Aztecs would actually be a utopia. The Spanish may have left them around if that were the case. Maybe a Japanese monk is blown over the sea or something.

>>2091311
The only thing is the terrain giving penalty for control which will help a bit but it's not a hard limit or anything, AI will still blob in formless blobs.

>>2091346
>The Spanish may have left them around if that were the case.
Yeah, sure. The same ones who had to be forced out of all Buddhist nations they ever set foot into.
Spanish never gave a single fuck.

Red up what the castway Spanish trasure fleet captain said to the Japanese when they got him drunk. They knew exactly what they were doing and it wasn't about saving people.

>>2091331
>is how readily would buddhism be accepted by states across mesoamerica
Honestly? I don't think Buddhism would spread that much, at least not in that era. Buddhism was majorly adopted in regions where people still practised tribal-like religions or religions similar to Buddhism, but the Meosamerican peoples already had a heavily ritualized religion that would be hard to compete with.
Maybe the peoples in Aridoamerica could convert, but south of the Tropic of Cancer? Doubt it.

>>2091353
I was more implying that such a nation may have been larger and more stable. Something they may have decided to trade with instead of conquer, at least initially.

>>2091337
>Give me some archetypes
Uhm… I don’t know about specific archetypes, but Buddhism where it went syncretised quite well.

In Tibet the ethnic Bon priestly caste (lamas) were retained and gained more political power, their form of Buddhism spread to Mongolia where Tengri was also retained as a Bodhisattva I think (one who has the potential to be a Buddha) and its influence in Chinese buddhism is there probably from when the Yuan tried to merge both types. Lamas are meant to be bodhisattvas who reincarnated to guide others.

Buddhism in China probably came with the most influence from when Central Asia was Buddhist and during the Tang where they held a protectorate there. Chinese buddhism is the most assimilated and sinicized, being heavily influence by daoism and creating Chan/Zen buddhism from this synthesis, there are many buddhist schools there with no figurehead.

Buddhism in Southeast Asia (and Sri Lanka) is the most old and heavyhanded, syncretizing the least but still allowing the local gods, the hindu gods, and animism worship there, god-kings there were meant to be virtuous and actually be a bodhisattva.

Buddhism in India reassimilated and was brought into the fold of Hinduism. With Buddha being a god.

Don’t know about how buddhism in central asia was like before islam. Honestly a lot of information might be wrong here, correct anything I said

I guess a common theme with the regions that it spread to (except india) is that they didn’t really have any or much theological clashes or fight with what buddhism offered so i guess they were offered. Chinese folk religion has two heaven for those who follow buddhism or daoism. I thought if buddhism in my scenario would be heavily pushed back since the ultimate goal of buddhism (nirvana) to break the cycle of life and reincarnation may clash with the aztec religion and their elites of sustaining their cycles or sth.

>>2091354
Yeah I was thinking that maybe daoists and their concept of Dao may be more readily accepted since the way Teotl and Dao are described sound similar. I wouldn’t know where to place Confucians but they do many rituals to placate heaven.

Basic premise of my scenario is the emperor of china who commissioned the treasure voyages likes buddhism a lot more, read tales of the lands of fusang, has the treasure fleet be constructed with long distance travel in mind with a buddhist admiral since they’re expecting buddhists.

They land in the americas, the emperor is happy since he gets legitimacy of his rule for discovering new lands (I think he needed it since his rule was questioned due to overthrowing his nephew, likely why he comissioned the original voyages), the nobility is happy since they found new exotic animals and materials to extract from and fuel their luxury wants like animal furs and turquoise jade, many industries were funded and fueled by their wants.

They fuck off after 30 years and the emperor’s death, become isolationist with some merchants travelling inbetween to continue the luxury industries.

That's what I’ve planned so far, I also wanted to explore how the lack of treasure voyages made islam spread slower in southeast asia.

ignore my schizoid ramblings tnx

>>2091354
It can be argued that China has or had a heavily ritualized governance and religion (Confucianism and its worship of Heaven and many many rituals, Taoism is influential but not really part of the state and their priests attempted to organize and take care of Chinese temples) that did not hold concepts similar to that of Buddhism yet it still penetrated their lands and syncretized heavily with the existing religions.

>>2091156
>30YW
>pointless
>calls other history amateurs
reddit "intellectuals" were a mistake

>>2091275
>it's just that the Aztecs started losing more than they won
>The Purepucha and possibly the Tlaxcala themselves being enemies they couldn't defeat
Even if they won against the Tlaxcalans, the Purepecha were starting to make iron weapons, which would have been game over for the Aztecs. People usually say how glorious the Aztec civilization would have flourished if the Spaniards never came, but it's more probable they would have devolved into several civil wars and/or being conquered by the Purepecha or other upstart civilizations.
The truth is, the Aztecs were past their prime and were in decline for several years before that.

>>2090967
The Aztecs are a culture that you could only love if you are Mexican, and maybe not even that. I, personally, fucking hate chilangos for glorifying those bastards.

>>2091404
The depopulation was the pointless thing, negroid. Learn to read.

>>2091425
>aztecs not that bad because people die in european wars too lol
kys

>>2091418
The Purepecha WILL unite Mesoamerica and gain the Mandate of Heaven

>>2091433
>Aztecs atrocities not that special when given universal context in the great deal of historical human atrocities*
Again, learn to read, negro

>>2091284
>Much like the Vikings the better deaths were in battle and sacrifice and the worst was to sickness
The Vikings are just the Aztecs of the north, highly praised but for the wrong reasons. There is a reason why the common folk converted to Christianity in such numbers. They were already so tired of the mindless wars their warmonger leaders were making that they quickly embrace more peaceful religions as the alternative.

>>2091006
Nope, their neighbours weren't like that. The Aztecs were just singularly evil.

>>2091442
>niggers in africa rape children to "cure" them from aids but rape also happens in the rest of the world so its okay

>>2091450
Have fun against that strawman you just created, anon.

>>2091452
I accept the concession.

My first campaign might just be dedicated to fucking over the Aztecs now.

I assume Cortez' conquest will be physically impossible or else just an event that gives spain a bunch of land

>>2091462
iberians will have special conquistador mechanics, we haven't seen yet how they work exactly

Wonder what's next
HoIV? Stellaris 2?

>>2091470
Neither really needs a sequel. Well, Hoi4 does but they'd probably never do it because too many shitty modders would bitch if they shook up systems. Some of the new changes coming in the new Hoi4 update look pretty interesting though. Like more realistic naval and construction systems.

>>2091474
>Like more realistic naval and construction systems.
On top of coal? Maybe it'll be halfway decent.

>>2091147
rice is OP

Did you guys know Cortes had little to no military training. How does a dude like that topple an empire? Was he just a cunning man who could get his native allies to do what he wanted?

>>2091593
He had almost no experience of any kind, I believe he was trained in law.
There were a lot of experienced men on the expedition, though.

>>2091462
IRL they allied with the natives to take down the Aztecs, one of those allies even survived until the Mexican war of independence as a vassal of the Spanish crown

>>2091593
He didn't need to be a military genius. His small force was able to punch above its weight due to the technological gap (cavalry, steel weapons and armour, firearms, cannons), which convinced enough doubtfull/disloyal aztec vassals and other enemies of the aztecs that the time to rebel had come.
His biggest achievement is arguably to forge the native-spaniard coalition, and not have his native allies murder his men. The siege of tenochtitlan was like 40:1 native in the spanish camp. Even with his surperior arms his allies could have easily turned on him if he was a retard.

>>2091593
He was the Chosen One. Like one of those isekai anime protagonists.

>>2091593
He rolled 6/6/6 in his diplomatic skills. He managed to survive purely by his talking skills, plus he knew damn well how to act in dire situations and he actually managed to recognize talented individuals and befriended them along his travels, like Malinche and Gerónimo de Aguilar who were the best partners he could get in his situation.

>>2091615
>He rolled 6/6/6 in his diplomatic skills
>He rolled [administrative/diplomatic/military] in his diplomatic skills
What was going through your head when you typed that out?

Cortes was an ADHDChad.

>>2091616
I was trying to be fun but I am retarded, I apologize

>>2091594
>I believe he was trained in law
I think that's a myth and actually no one knows if he had formal education or not.

>>2091609
>and not have his native allies murder his men

Pizarro was mildly less successful since he was done in by his own.

>>2091595
I hope there's some interesting mechanic related to this, kinda similar to France vs England where both side attempt to win over the smaller states

>>2091656
there's absolutely no way they'll spend that much time on modeling situations outside of Eurasia

>>2091676
this is a european situation

>>2091676
They said they will make a triple alliance IO. They might just include the rebellion of the subjects/conquest as Series of DHE linking the Triple alliance mechanics to the conquistador mechanics (i don't remember the TT, but aren't conquistadors BBC?)

Shouldn't this be discussed in /gsg/? It's for paradox games mostly.

>Also there's something nagging on the back of my mind, @Pavía. Do we still have Religious Views? Because this was the only time we ever saw this screen, none of the Religion tooltips ever mention it. Did you drop this idea?

No, it's already there, in the 'Religious Breakdown' tab:

PS: God, the GUI has undergone some breaking changes since the first Tinto Talks, doesn't it?

>>2091721
>/gsg/
every single "person" who posts there should be killed

>>2091721
Nobody is stopping you. Fuck off

>>2091325
Diplomatic capacity scales by the size of the vassal, 1.00 isn't 1 vassal, it might be a few or a dozen.
honestly it's kind of confusing but I think it's worth it since it makes alliances more balanced. Now if you're some shitty OPM allying France it takes up all your diplomatic capacity, while France barely uses any.

>>2091823
You OPM has the entirety of its trained diplomats going to the French court to butter up the king and important nobles. While France has some third son of a nobody family managing the entire relationship of your OPM

>>2091325
>>2091823
>>2091833

>>2091902
The base value is 70% of the final number, I'm sure that you can push that down to 50% or something but that does mean that 2 OPM's allying france is the same as one real ally. Not much of an improvement.

>>2091135
Just like real life then except through migration and not language loss

>>2091902
I like that but it seems like the modifier should be on the cost of being a vassal rather than on increasing the diplomatic capacity of the overlord.

>>2091188
>Well, to be fair, Europeans didn't have rituals dedicated to torturing children for weeks.

Did this game get leaked yet, or there wasn't a China moment this time around?

It's sad that I've gotten so familiar with this thread and its users that I recognise the identities behind the posts whenever I read them
Fraternising with such degenerates is regrettable

i like to give my imaginary friends names too

>>2092133
I very rarely post on here, there's no way you can recognise my posting style. If you do and (you) one of my posts I'll personally buy a copy of EU5 to all the anons on this thread

>>2092149
Richfag?

>>2092155
No, I'm just that confident.

>>2092121
This game is actually good so none of the testers have leaked it out of spite yet.

There isn't a single atrocityporn narrative of history that's accurate.
North Korea, Nazis, Aztecs, it's all made up.

oddly limited options on this poll, no ?

>>2092265
Which do you like best?
>Crusader Kings
>Europa Universalis
>Stellaris
They're not asking about HoI because it's already their most successful and popular game.

had meant to hyperlink to
>>2091470
i think blorg deux is quite feasibly on the cards

>>2091474
Modders would be glad for HoI5 giving them an excuse to abandon their unfinished mods to not finish them again (but not their ego, or perceived clout).

>>2091908
You can see there are other smaller vassals with 0.1-0.2 capacity usage, so it's closer to 5-10 OPMs allying france is the same as one real ally.

>>2092419
Those are the french special vassals

>>2091331
Okay, another question I wanna ask is if Taoism would integrate or assimilate into the aztec religion. I don’t know if the Aztecs had that monastic hermit tradition yet and if taoists weren’t living in the mountain, they’d usually help out in administering and operating temples, usually without a primary caretaker, regardless of culture and gods. I also heard that the concepts of Teotl and Tao are very similar in meaning which may help with its integration or assimilation like it did with Shinto.

>>2092460
Taoism in no way assimilated with Shinto though. The Japanese only really took Buddhism from China and then later on there were some experiments with neo-Confucianism that didn't do much.

>>2092478
My mistake, I thought it fully got assimilated but it did not. It entered during the Tang, many shinto priests adopted many of their practices and concepts which got folded into overall shinto beliefs then it dwindled in influence there.

/gsg/ needs more traffic, so let's post there guys

guys, /gsg/ is the one meaningful way we have to get the attention of the devs and make sure we don't get another victoria 3 type situation. so go there and tag wiz or johan with your recommendations or you'll have only yourself the blame when launch comes and 90% of the game is modifier kino.... ok? i'l see you guys there *closes tab and launches the gsg/ experience&

>>2092265
Cold War Era would actually BTFO all those options, but the cowards will never do it.

which would you rather see next, HoIV or HoI*5* .??

1 x Respectfully disagree

>>2091006
You are wrong. I am not going to call you ignorant, but you should definitely read more because this take fails in many areas.

Mesoamerica and the Andean Altiplano development civilizations at the same time as the Old World. Actually those two are considered among the few First Civilizations such as Egypt, Mesopotamia, Indus Valley or Huang He Valley.

That being said, it is clear that despite this edge and disregarding the fact that they were surprinsingly advanced in certain areas (such as Astronomy), they simply "lost their time" and by the time Europeans arrived they were lacking in several important areas (lacking Iron Working when Iron is easy to handle and is among the most common elements on the surface of the Earth is taking a big L).

>>2091193
>Maybe

>>2092551
>lacking Iron Working when Iron is easy to handle and is among the most common elements on the surface of the Earth is taking a big L
Yeah lol. Sub-saharan Africa had no tin so there was no way to make bronze so the entirety of "civilisation" there "skipped" to the iron age instead 200 or so years before everybody else out of necessity. The fact the furthest the natives got was obsidian is bizarre.

Devs still didnt fix the balkan map

>>2091194
>human impulses don't change due to cultural reasons, people still feel things due to basic biological instinct
Human culture exerts a selective force which alters human genetics. You are a domestic puppy compared to a man 6000 years ago (and that's a good thing).

>>2091311
In theory it should be stupid easy to stop this from happening, just make an "extreme mountains" terrain and give it insanely powerful negative modifiers, yet they never do it.

>>2092723
the balkans map irl is still a WIP so i understand

>>2092478
>Taoism in no way assimilated with Shinto though.
Anon, go look at a Shinto Shrine again.
Chinese dress.
Paper talismans everyfucking where.
Even the fucking Shinto is a Taoist concept. Shin-tou "Tao of the Gods."
Read up some Teeuwen. Join us on the path to enlightenment where you realise Shinto is just a name the budding dictators gave to Taoism to kill Buddhist political power in Japan.

>>2092492
No fucking way they're touching Israel in the 2020s.

>>2092924
NTA, but Shinto is moreso similar to the Chinese Folk Religion which led to some people referring to it Shendao. Taoism was derived and separated from this folk religion and then influenced it while being reincorporated to the chinese folk religion along with other religions, Taoism probably did the same when it came to Japan. I heard Musok from Korea is also very similar to the chinese shamanism religion aspect of chinese folk religion.

>>2092936
The disastrous consequences of being a publicly traded company.

>>2091327
>>2091347
Can't be solved in a paradox game.
The larger empire will ALWAYS win, the AI has no concept of limited engagement, China would just send 100,000 people to Tibet, even if 90% of them die of attrition the 10% will still win the war.

>>2092948
Religion sounds fucked up there, people need to learn how to accept Christ instead

>>2092924
No? Even ignoring that modern Shinto in so far as it's its own thing was invented in the 1800s Shinto in similarities to Chinese religions is similar to the folk religions not Taoism. And the Chinese character for Dao stands for way so any religion which calls itself the way/path of XYZ will have that end. Nevermind even the examples you gave (wtf does "Chinese dress" even mean - insofar as Shinto priests have a uniform it's just the clothes the Japanese nobility were wearing in the Heian period, could be Chinese derived possibly but not religiously assimilated) are even examples of assimilation. They're aesthetic concerns and name games. Assimilation would be something like how early Christianity drew a lot from Aristotelian metaphysics, not how the days of the week in a lot of the European languages refer to pagan gods which is the equivalent.

Modern Japs are mostly descended from Chinks from 300ad.

>>2093045
I'm afraid you're wrong.

>>2093045
I thought they were mostly descended from proto-koreans

>>2093062
It's the other way around, the Yayoi were Japonic speakers. Proto-Japonic is ancestral to Peninsular Japonic which existed alongside Proto-Korean, evidence survives in Japonic placenames throughout the peninsula. The peninsula's languages were only fully Koreanized hundreds of years later. Most likely they both branched from a Proto-Japanese-Korean but nobody wants to reconstruct it because neither Japanese nor Koreans want to admit they're related.

Modern Japs are mostly descended from angels.

>>2093125
True!

>>2091592
trash tier crop, intense labor needed and its short lifespan means that the farmer class is perpetually enslaved.

>>2093174
>means that the farmer class is perpetually enslaved.
I'm failing to see the negatives.

>>2093086
>Most likely they both branched from a Proto-Japanese-Korean but nobody wants to reconstruct it because neither Japanese nor Koreans want to admit they're related.
I'd find a connection between them unlikely. Japanese shows influence of having originated in Southern China with some strong connections to the Kra-Dai languages, before migrating into the peninsula where they formed the Mumun Pottery Culture. Meanwhile the Koreans were still in Manchuria as the Liaoning bronze dagger culture before migrating down and conquering Japanese rice farmers. The real question is when are people going to admit that the Japanese and Thai are related.

>>2093242
>Southern China
>Kra-Dai
>the Japanese and Thai are related.
Fucking hell can you stop with this bullshit already? No you're not of pure 100% yamato stock, shut the fuck up already. The entire basis of you peoples retarded arguments for being shoguns and sheeeeit is your languages looking vaguely similar to monolingual Americans when presented side-by-side with latin characters. Pure fucking retardation. You are right about Koreans marching down though, although there still is no concrete proof of the Japanese being in the Korean peninsula before maybe 300-400 AD.

>>2091116
This picture is literally everything wrong with Paradox's design philosophy and why they will never not make shit games.

Rather than try to make games based around reality they try to bend reality to suit their game.
If EVERY SINGLE Indian state is "overpopulated" then they're not overpopulated. That's just the population they have. There shouldn't be a mass die off in China and India at the start of every game when there wasn't historically, purely because the game mechanics say there are too many people in poopbhunda or shitao, instead the game mechanics should examine why these provinces were able to sustain so many people.

This is always the case with Paradox, any concept that existed that they don't want to exist because it would mess with their balance simply isn't allowed to exist. The huge European technological advantage to the rest od the world, the Portuguese BTFOing the Angolans, Mozambique, and Indians isn't allowed. They have to be at parity with Europe for "balance."
Post leviathan they even made fucking abos at parity with Europe.

EU5 is supposedly "simulstionist" but this picture says the exadt opposite.

>>2093246
Who said anything about pure Yamato stock? The Japanese are a mutt race

>>2092936
Russia would be even more problematic than Israel.

>>2093254
Why are they so much shorter and skinner than Koreans?

>>2093368
Cold war, not modern day.
Modern day Russia wouldn't be problematic either, they'd just make them satan and that'd be it.

The issue is with Israel/Palestine is no matter how they do it they're going to get bitching from one side or both. Even if the language was 100% neutral.
https://youtu.be/1elh4mxqvDo?feature=shared&t=692

>>2093247
The problem is that the only way to balance this sort of thing is to have racial traits added to pops that makes some populations less valuable then other populations of the same population size. They are not willing to do that.

>>2093386
They basically had that before they removed tech cost tied to group in EU4.

>>2093374
They aren't. Koreans are the short ones.

>>2093247
>mass die off in China and India at the start of every game
Sounds perfect.

>>2093383
>The issue is with Israel/Palestine is no matter how they do it they're going to get bitching from one side or both. Even if the language was 100% neutral.
Wow, anti-Semitic much?

>>2093383
Retards bitching on twitter is a non-issue, but real-life people or their estates suing over their depiction in the game is.
WW2 era is early enough it's not too much of a problem, the worst they encounter is German censorship or Chinese review bombs, both of which are about as common as raindrops in a hurricane for any game developer.
Once you get into the 60s it's getting too recent, you start getting people whose likeness is owned by an estate or trust, political organizations and companies that still exist today, events and narratives that provoke government censorship, even some people from the period that are still alive, all of whom could randomly throw a frivolous lawsuit or regulatory demand at you. It's not even remotely worth it.

Also, let's be real: grand strategy games are wargames. The point of the cold war is that the big exciting war never happened. It's a boring setting for one of these games.
You'd be better off making a cold war-like setting in some fantasy world instead.

>>2093412
>Chinese review bombs
It's still insane to me that literally every game and dlc they made was disliked because they gave India flavor in HoI4. The review scores didn't even change because the "period of unusual activity" triggered, so it was literally for nothing. All because a different country not even directly related to them was given content in one of the DLCs.

Paradox really shouldn't be trying to court the Chinese market at all given how liable they are to throw a bitch fit, for entirely unrelated reasons as well. Paradox will make an event where Corsica can demand autonomy and 1,000,000 chinks will seethe behind their firewall because they viewed it as an allegory for Taiwan.

>>2093412
>Also, let's be real: grand strategy games are wargames
Only blobbersalis is becauss there's literally nothing else to so in that game, that's the whole reason everyone is so hype for EU5 because they added actual mechanics to EU.
CK3 is an incest sim.
V3 is an economy sim.
Only HoI is a war game.

>>2093419
Chinese users are by far the largest userbase on steam and review scores are basically meaningless for an already-established company like Paradox. In all likelihood they're glad for the review bombs because it means high levels of community engagement, it's free advertising. It's like when a live service slop game like Path of Exile or Destiny gets a bad update, and all the players are seething about it but still playing anyway. Having players be pissed off at your game is way better than having them bored or disengaged. Imperator didn't die because of bad reviews, it died because nobody gave a shit about it.

>>2093422
Victoria II was a wargame, Victoria 3 is just a failed attempt at making Victoria not a wargame. It's a game that was designed wrong on purpose, because cutting units and provinces for time was the only way to ship the game in a barely playable state.

>>2093423
Yeah, but at literally any point the Chinese gerontocracy could decide paradox upset the feelings of the Chinese people and ban their games from steam, at which point Chinks could only get them through piracy, which is no money for Paradox.
China is extremely fucking fickle and it's the reason they have exactly one AAA game. Eveything they produce that somehow manages to get approved has to be made extremely quickly and cheaply because they could regulate it to death if it isn't done quickly and there's no money in such uncertain industries.

For example, China produced some remarkable films in the 90s that really started to put them on the world stage, they were for the first time being seen as a soft power producing nation. The government decided the films could be perceived as critical so regulated them to shit and now their films have no appeal outside domestic han nationalists hungry for more korean war slop.

>>2093427
>Victoria II was a wargame
Nigger, did you ever play it? You could take 2 states before you got max infamy.

>>2093432
And? More war.

>>2093434
Nobody played V2 as a blobber.

>>2093432
The entire point of the game is to build up to the Great War, it's like 30YW in EU4 or the world war in HoI4.

>>2093436
You have literally never played it.

>>2093440
Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>2093442
The fact you think 1836-1900 in liqqy is at all comparable to 1936-1939 in goy4

>>2093246
I wasn't aware of the Thai claiming to be shoguns, but a couple larpers doesn't discredit the Japonic Kra-Dai contact theory. Vovin showed some compelling evidence that Proto-Japonic and Proto-Kra-Dai had some kind of affinity with each other through some basic vocabulary terms that could only really be explained by a period of contact. A Japanese origin near the Yangtze river would explain the vocabulary well and match with the spread of rice farming into Shandong and the Korean peninsula

>>2093431
>China produced some remarkable films in the 90s
It was Hong Kong.
>inb4 same shit
No, not even close. Hong Kong already had its own entertainment industry way back under British rule. And the first thing the Chinese did once they got the city back was to hyper-regulate all their industries, killing any momentum they had at that time.

>>2093247
Without pop caps the game would be incredibly difficult to balance. If the only limit was food production then there's way too many links to other systems and the whole thing would inevitably be either super fragile (where loss of pops leads to less food leads to loss of pops and deathspiral) or super exploitable where you can make mega iceland that has infinite food and infinite pop. The only way around that would be to heavily cap arable land in each province which is just pop caps with extra steps and less fun to play around as you have to micro that you have max food production everywhere instead of passively just having a pop cap and actually getting to use your pops the way you want.

>>2093519
>cap arable land in each province
Okay?

>>2093523
That's what pop cap is

>>2093519
>heavily cap arable land
This is the actual answer actually record and track arable land and land types in general but that's extra calculations PDX might not feel warranted and might "freeze" the game in ways PDX doesn't want - while Ryukyuan world conquests are memey adding something like the above could make them go from EU4 tier general challenge to (hopefully EU5s) decent struggle to just straight up impossible. Probably more correct from a historicity point of view but gimping the players who like that style utterly in hopes of attracting yet more simulationists is probably not the best bet when you can use something like pop caps to get a similar enough feel and outcome for the vast majority of players and flexibility in deciding how much said caps matter with balance and difficulty levels to capture as wide a net as possible. You can leave the more detailed stuff to mods - after all there's already people on the forums planning to do just that already.

>>2093588
Pop cap already does all of that, the actual issue with arable land is what I presented above. Either it's just extra work for no gain over pop cap or it makes the entire thing very fragile and exploit heavy. In a free form economical simulation the later just leads to shit gameplay every time as the world economy randomly collapses into famines or what ever for no good reason.

>>2093662
>Karen
Thailand is a truly diverse place

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tinto-maps-26-indonesia-feedback.1842182/

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Maps Feedback post! Today, we will be reviewing the region of South East Asia. Let's start with the list of changes, that, as I mentioned last week, is shared between both regions, as we worked on them in parallel:

Let's now take a look at the maps:

Countries:

Some changes and tweaks here and there.

ADDITIONS

Added the following:

TAGs
Kiliman
Lanao
Ibalon
Pulilu
Taytay
Kumalarang
Vientiane
Cobra
Hkamti
Mong Kong
Hsawng Hsup

Dynasties:

Country Ranks & Government Types:

SoPs:

Locations:

Not many changes here either, this week, as per the reasons given last week.

CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:

Locations (only corrections):
sinugbohan to irong_irong
dumangas to araut
virac to vidak
himoragat to naga_bikol
lagawe to kiyyangan
lianga to langan
mainit to cabadbaran
marakato to makarato
baybay to pangasugan
vigan to bigan
cabagbagototan to kandong
tabuk to tobog
buayan to makar
datu_piang to buayan
laillo to lal_lo
davao to tagloc
linao to bislig
davao_gulf to tagloc_gulf

Provinces:

CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:

Provinces

northern_highland_province to madhyamagrama_province
angkor_wat_province to angkor_province
ilocos_province to samtoy_province
maynila_province to katagalugan_province
mid_cagayan_province to cordillera_province
pantabangan_province to pampanga_province
mindoro_province to mait_province


Areas:

The visualization of areas has improved a lot compared to last year, but we still have some work to be done, as breaking the huge 'Indonesia Coast' area into smaller areas - something that we'll tackle soon, as we already have a pass planned on Areas + Regions worldwide.

Climate:

Topography:

Vegetation:

Some tweaks here and there.

Dangers:

A map that we usually don't share, but that in the case of Indonesia, is pretty relevant: Possible Earthquakes + Volcanoes - or, as it's called in-game, Dangers!

Development:

Harbors:

Cultures:

Here is where we've done the greatest rework, as Indonesia is fully populated by different cultural minorities.

Religions:

We've also put a lot of effort into polishing the religious distribution of the region.

Raw Materials:

Some tweaks, here and there. You might also notice that there's a unique spice in the region, Cloves!

Markets:

Not many changes, Surabaya is now a market center instead of Sunda Kelapa, and that's it.

And that's all for today!

Language Family

Language:

Dialect:

Here you have the 3 Language levels of the game, in a very linguistically rich region.

>>2093759
Found another map online, bruh

>>2093845
Fixed for performance :^)

>>2093759
>Austroasiatic Thailand
When the fuck does this game start?
The Thai were already fucking around that place during Genghis' little apeout in the 1200s.

>>2093855
Peak vic2

>>2093246
I'm not that Anon, but it's very clear that he is referencing Vovin's paper on Japonic's possible Urheimat.

I love minors

who doesn't?

>>2093899
They make me feel so good.

>>2093855
>minor
uoh!

Did they add any Chinky tags to Indonesia?

Was xe right, /vst/?

>>2094096
>Most sacrificies were not to placate angry gods, but to return the divine energy in a person's heart to the sun and keep it shining
lmao, A++ in mental gymnastics

>>2094096
He sounds like a redditor but he's right. The ruler getting sacrificed is retarded and would never happen, nor is there any evidence of it happening. The tlatoani himself was the high priest of the state religion. The entire religion is state-run, the rulers are the ones personally funding all the festivals and ceremonies, the temples run with their dispensation and the state approves or disapproves of gods. The tlatoani has more power over the religion than the Pope had over Catholicism at this time. There's no circumstance where his own religion could rise up and have him killed. If that did happen it'd be more like a coup and the religion has nothing to do with it.

>>2094009
Mass migration of the chinks only came much later. There should be a kingdom of Singapura/Singapore around this period though

>>2094102
what's mental gymnastics about it? The aztec gods are seen as helpful and sacrifices are supposed to aid them. But EU4 phrases it like they're the God of the old testament, who doesn't need sacrifices but demands them anyway, and sends calamities if you don't obey.

>>2094164
Mesoamerica really sounded like ancient mesopotamia with their city states and god kings who had a lot of control over religion

>>2094096
Regardless of history it's just bad game design. There's no reason to ever let doom approach 100 so you always play the same way and avoid that. Might as well just have festival/sacrifice events regularly take money automatically. Instead of having a "Actually Let's Not Prevent The Apocalypse" option that gives you +1% poop efficiency or whatever in exchange for increasing your "lose the whole fucking game" meter, which nobody will ever press

>>2094168
Why they're putting people on altars and ripping their hearts out isn't the issue, it's that they were doing it at all.
>Human sacrifice? Oho, no, patented sun worship, old family religion.
>for sun worship?
>Yes!
>and you call it sun worship despite the fact you are clearly sacrificing a human?

>>2094259
The why is the most important issue if you're trying to understand a human behavior or simulate a system of beliefs, you retard.

>>2094275
I don't want to understand it. They're monstrous barbaric people who needed civilizing.

>>2094278
>I don't give a fuck about history, I just swallow whatever drivel /pol/ shits up
Whatever floats your boat, but why are you here then?

>>2094291
>it's /pol/ drivel to think human sacrifice is barbaric

>>2094275
'ate Canaanites
'ate Carthaginians
'ate Ashkenazim
'ate Aztecs
Simple as.

>>2094278
this is wisdom
Romans 16:19

>Do the Eastern Buddhist countries in this region still have access to the sects like Confucianism, Daoism, or Musok which we saw in the Buddhism Tinto Talks?

So this is with Palembang, which is an Eastern Buddhist country at the start:

>>2093743
>With the religious map, is it showing the state religion or the religion of the population? My understanding from sources like here (AskHistorians, but citing actual academic sources) was that Hinduism and Buddhism were mostly followed by the elites, with the general population following traditional local religious beliefs? Is that the approach being taken here, or is the game depicting the majority of (e.g.) Java's population as Hindu or Buddhist?

Population religion. This is the country religion:

>Are the stripes intended here or is it a visual bug?

Intended, so you can see big religious minorities in your country. For instance, Aru is a Sunni country, in which Sunni pops are a minority:

>>2090852
>>2090853
Previously mountains were only if you are in a mountain location, however Tenochtitlan is a plateau.

I tweaked the logic so you get mountains if you border a Mountain Wasteland, and the ocean foreground if you border a lake.

Here is how Tenochtitlan generates now:

>>2094714
It's a subtle piece but still very nice detail to help generate different location artworks and their characteristics
I have the same complaint about CK3's holding artworks (every Arabic castle is in a desert, 0 dev Bulgar castles look the same as 30 dev Persia), so I'm glad this is being applied

>>2094714
Dave is my favourite dev

>>2093721
BUILD FOR THE VOC

>>2093858
I think they're there, just as an aristocratic minority. You can see Thai in the Malay peninsula so they're likely in the Palaungic and Mon areas too. I think they should make more of the Palaungic locations majority Thai though

>>2094766
How the fuck have we not gotten a netherlands dev diary

>>2094830
I prefer they leave the juiciest countries for last

Tier 1 for the major great powers who impact the timeline the most.

France
England
Ottomans
Castile / Spain
Muscovy /Russia
Austria
Yuán / China

Tier 2 for important ones and those that you all love playing

Byzantium
Venice
Brandenburg / Prussia
Portugal
Sweden
Denmark
Poland
Mamluks
Japan
Delhi
Holland / Netherlands
Timurids / Mughals

Tier 3 for everbody else we wanted to make content for, everything from Mali to Scotland goes here.

>>2094830
Most games won't even get to netherlands lmao

>>2094845
What if I will be playing them most games

>>2094845
We haven't seen how much railroading is going to be in place, perhaps a Dutch revolt following religious struggle will be insurmountable for the AI

>>2094879
I mean you will quit before that can even happen because the game is over. Just like no one sees any 1600 formables in EU4

Then again they did remove requirements so maybe it forms every game in 1350 instead.

>>2094835
They showed Brandenburg's flavour off in TF16

>>2094879
They already said they're not railroading Burgundy so the dutch revolt wouldn't make any sense either.
It's debatable if "the netherlands" as an idea would exist at all without Burgundy, but i have a feeling they'll railroad it into existing somehow regardless

yeah 1337 was really a retarded choice

>>2094733
>CK3's holding artworks (every Arabic castle is in a desert
They're not called sandniggers for nothing.

>>2094911
Any start date that lets you fight the Red Turban Rebellion is certified ludokino.
I fear the HYW will never actually last a hundred years though.

>>2094911
Are you not tired of posting this every thread?

>>2094916
>lets you fight the Red Turban Rebellion
This but the opposite so that you can establish a Manichean dynasty

>>2094911
Even though you post this every time, I do agree to some extent. I like the idea of it, but I would like to have maybe 2 more starting dates, as no one is ever going to get to the late game and I want to actually be able to play countries like Burgundy, the Netherlands, Napoleonic France, Qing which is just impossible without giga railroading and that's no fun either. Although I'd also be content if modders just add later starting dates, but that also requires it to be possible, which I'm not sure if they have said yet.

>>2094830
they are still figuring out how to change the map after you start the game

>>2094998
As an experienced modder on Anbennar I cannot express how cool this would be, but I also very much doubt they will do it.
If they do I will genuinely be impressed...
My top 5 most wanted features for modding are:

Being able to give pops of cultures all sorts of conditional modifiers, such as buffs in certain terrains. This is to simulate species ecological niches

Being able to change terrain types during play via effects (all 3 forms). This is to simulate terraforming and climate change.

Being able to make the map without having to adhere to a retarded hexcode province color system. This would make making a new map significantly easier if done right.

Being able to import unit models and ethnic appearances from older pdx games. This would be especially good for fantasy settings... I really do not look forward to making a bunch of models that older mods for older games did better than I ever could...

A return of the ck2 societies system... Need I say more

I doubt we will get any of this

>>2094911
I'm starting to agree considering all the stuff they claimed was why they wanted to start in 1337 doesn't really seem to be very fleshed out.

1337 is bad because it gives them an excuse to have all countries at parity and claim it's historical (europe never becoming more powerful than the RotW is "acceptable deviation from history") whereas if it started in 1453 (fuck byzaboos) there's no excuse for not making europe (historically) op

>>2095051
Terrain changes are already possible, it just doesn't get reflected in 3D graphics which is why it's hard to officially implement. a mod would have no issue changing local modifiers.
>Being able to give pops of cultures all sorts of conditional modifiers
Cultures and culture groups can have attached modifiers in EU5. (they don't in vanilla but it's allowed)
>Being able to make the map without having to adhere to a retarded hexcode province color system. This would make making a new map significantly easier if done right.
lol yeah never happening
>Being able to import unit models and ethnic appearances from older pdx games.
it's the same format as ck3/vic3
>A return of the ck2 societies system...
Well, we have international organizations. Characters can lead IOs but I don't think they can be members. If characters could belong instead of just countries then it'd basically be societies.
iirc there's also some kind of military orders system? not building-based countries like the Teutonic Order but something else, Castile is supposed to have it

>see oceania thread on front page for some reason
>click it
>some guy has been doing worldbuilding for Bruce's Nightmare
oh man

WOW. that is a map

>>2095182
That's pretty cool. What uh...functional use will it be though? Tribal warfare or?

will you link the thread

>>2095185
It's like the meme continents in Anbennar, their purpose is to click the startup option that disables them.

>>2095051
>an experienced modder
>on anbennar
and they havent published any of your work?

>>2095186
It's the Oceania Tinto Maps.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-maps-27-22nd-of-november-2024-oceania.1716884/

>>2095188
Unfortunately, no. They said my systems were too ‘unpolished’

>>2095177
I know we can add modifiers to cultures, but i wonder how much we can add...
I'm hoping I can somehow make a species fight and operate RGOs worse in certain terrain types.

Oh also I forgot to mention, I hope eu5 gets those xp traits ck3 has...
Paradox is real good at not learning lessons, so I remain doubtful...

>>2095188
No, much of my work is in the mod.

No way in hell am I working on eu5 anbennar though.
Think of the review hell. The horror

>>2095195
EU5 Anbennar will just be a rehash anyway. They could've at least changed the start date to 1337 but chickened out. They're too concerned with "canon" for shit nobody cares about like the other games' mods and the >book

>>2095158
>whereas if it started in 1453 (fuck byzaboos)
1492 should be the Start Date imho, considering how that year it's almost universally claimed as the end of the Middle Ages.
But I still think Paradox needs to release a game between Crusader Kings and Europa Universalis, a game that is focused solely on the Late Middle Ages, considering CK is way too focused on the High Middle Ages years.

>>2095189
The level of detail they've given to palaeolithic tier tribes in a game about building early modern nation states is absolutely absurd. it's like making orangutangs or gorillas playable societies in-game

>>2095218
>it's like making orangutangs or gorillas playable societies in-game
I would actually be ok with that.

>>2095218
>playable societies
SoPs quite literally aren't playable and won't be at release.
That said most of these types of map ammendments are made more by history autists seeking detail for the sake of detail than people making them for any particular gameplay reason.

>>2095218
I assume most of these people are just doing it for fun, especially because they're doing it after Paradox have pretty much admitted they can't be bothered to add locations outside of Britain anyway

>>2095211
>(fuck byzaboos)
Jokes on you, I can still larp as a roman restorer through Montferrat's Palaeologos rulers.

>>2095231
>>2095158
And in 1453, the Empire of Trebizond stills exists, so one could larp as the last great roman dynasty.

>>2095234
>And in 1453, the Empire of Trebizond stills exists
The Despotate of the Morea as well.

>>2095182
>Bruce's Nightmare
Literally who?

>>2090844
This is literally a porn vn character model

>>2093885
*crimea

>>2094169
It was, only that without the bronze.

>>2095182
holy autism

>>2095182
Imo, if I had to choose, I’d rather have Paraslop put in more effort and detail into New World cultures/civilizations than whatever shit goes down in Africa and Oceania since their civilizations are more kino. Even SEA is more relevant than the latter two

>>2095182
>wasting this much effort on a bunch of literally-who middle-of-nowhere tribals who all put together wouldn't surpass the population of Hangzhou

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-talks-72-16th-of-july-2025.1846292/

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will talk about the Inti & Folk Religions! Let’s start without further ado.

Inti

Inti is quite a unique religion that stands out in the Peruvian region:

As you see, Inti is part of the Peruvian Folk Religions group. We’ll explain how that works further down.

Here is the panel of the religion, which may be familiar to you at this point:

The most important mechanic of the Inti religion is the Yanantin, which is a value that can go from -100 to +100. You’ll mostly get penalties if you’re above or below 0, but it gives the most modifiers when it’s exactly and perfectly balanced at 0:

Depending on the gods that you worship, from seven available, you’ll get positive or negative Yanantin:

As you see, the base value is +0.50.

Apart from that, the worship of each of these gods gives passive modifiers to the country:

Here we’re using one of those ‘Building Blocks’ that we’ve talked about before, the Religious Aspect, in a way that promotes the worship of a certain god, which has the consequence of increasing their effects - therefore, being one of the ways of balancing the Yanantin of the country:

You can only promote the worship of one god at a time, and changing it costs Stability:

As usual, take the numbers as a matter of balance and WIP.

Another way of balancing the Yanantin of your country is by performing any of the available actions:

Note: There are 13 different festivities, with different modifiers; which one you get when you Host a Ceremony depends on the time of the year.

Folk Religions

Very large sections of the world are covered by Folk Religions, the new denomination of what formerly in EU4 were Animist, Pagan, or Totemist religions, and that we’ve been able to set up thanks to your feedback in the Tinto Maps series:

>>2095432
nice thumbnail johan

Due to the huge amount of Folk Religions, most have no content at the moment but we are adding some whenever possible. To do so, we are focusing on the “Gods” and “Religious Aspects” Building blocks.

The Isese Religion as an example

The Gods available to the people of Benin

And that’s all for today! We will come back on Friday, as we will talk in the Tinto Flavour about the Inca!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!

>>2095439
I feel Bantu, Shamanist, and Tengri should be split up somehow, seems very big. Seems weird Korea would have the same Eastern Buddhism religion as the ones in SEA and uighurs, same with Hinduism in India and SEA.

>>2091087
Chinks were cannibals until mid 19th century

>>2095428
Abbo buttlicking is out of control, and only out of pity for some of the most miserable people in history

>>2095453
What sort of bullshit is that? There were recorded cases of cannibalism during sieges and droughts and natural/political disasters like any other places in history, and in the ancient dynasties such as with the Shang with ritual sacrifice and cannibalism, but for most of history, the Chinese heavily frowned upon cannibalism since they prefer their bodies whole so that they can keep them when ascending the afterlife. If chinks are cannibals so are everyone else

>>2091156
>unironic aztec apologia
There's a reason Cortez was able to do what he did, and that was because everyone in the region fucking hated the Aztecs. I wonder why that was?

>>2095453
Happenedc during the 20th century too, all the way up to like 1960.
>>2095468
>There were recorded cases of cannibalism during sieges and droughts and natural/political disasters like any other places in history
Except it was far more common than in say Europe or the Muslim world, it was simply far less frowned on than any other civilized place and happened even outside of situations like arctic expeditions where you have to do it to survive. There are literally witness accounts of Europeans from 1920 onwards where they describe soldiers casually ripping out the hearts of their enemies, cooking them, and eating them. You didn't see this happening in the Boshin war, Spanish civil war etc

>>2095492
Yeah I can’t argue against that, they did do that, but its moreso done as revenge rather than sustenance to deny their enemies an afterlife

>>2095450
They're the same religion so there's no need to split it. All of those. The regional differences in Buddhism and Hinduism are represented by different sects and branches respectively. Shamanism and Tengriism did cover that range so no need to split. Bantu honestly doesn't even matter as it's just a religion for Congo to convert away from, you could subdivide it but it wouldn't make any practical difference.

>>2095509
Okay, but for Buddhism at least have certain schools be locked under culture, seems weird Confucianism and Daoism is accessible to Malays

>>2095516
It is weird, but at the same time it feels like something that would actually happen in real life. Like the treasure fleet shows up and the local lord is so impressed he gets obsessed with the Dao for a while.

>>2095522
But if China’s take on this religion gets to be seperated into a different one, why not the rest?

When is this game going to come out

check inside your anus

>>2095527
It's not, "Eastern Buddhism" is just Mahayana which is what they practiced in both Malaysia and China, it's the same thing. Why they called it "eastern" I don't know.

damn, should've known that l-gates are a trap

>>2095442
>I'm curious, do folk religions see other folk religions as 'heretics' or 'heathens'? :)
>Or it does not really matter for them?
>Thanks!

They use the base mechanics, which means that different religions in the same religious group are considered heretics, and in different religious groups are considered heathens. You can set up the religious groups differently, as they're scriptable, and thus, moddable; so, for instance, if you want a mod with more nuanced African Folk Religions, you can script it completely differently from the base game. And you can also script the different opinions that countries of different religions have among each other; so, you might consider the individual pops of a certain religion as 'heathens', but then set up a 'Positive' opinion on countries of that religion:

>>2095432
>Where did the banner's pixels go?

Oh God, I've been in this forum for 20 years, and I still hate it with passion.

To compensate, here you have another nice illustration for Folk Religions:

>>2095468
Cannibalism was not common but it was not unheard of either. You could buy human meat at the market not too long ago, as I said. It's shocking and I was shocked too, you can find informations online.

>>2095600
You don’t get it, China has its religion separated from eastern buddhism with Confucianism and Daoism locked in called sanjiao, if Paradox considered eastern buddhism and the rest of the religions in China to be unique enough to be its own religion, why not the rest of the world? Vietnam and Korea had a similar blending and I don’t see them getting one, maritime SEA rulers often practices a syncretic blend of Folk religion, Buddhism, and Hinduism, why don’t get their own religion? What warrants China to have its own?

>>2095660
Also I think the official reason they don’t use Mahayana is that Varjayana technically fell under Mahayana so they made tibet the same religion as China, people didn’t like it so they separated Tibetan Buddhism into its own and I guess made the rest Eastern Buddhism, whoch makes it doubly retarded that they retained Theravada as a religion name for the buddhism in mainland SEA, if they’re gonna change two other branches’ names why not make it consistent

>>2095660
Because China is a T1 and simply much more important than Korea and Vietnam, so they get special treatment

>>2095422
If I had to choose no countries other than the entire continent of Europe and Japan would have flavor.

>>2095683
>If I had to choose no countries other than the entire continent of Europe and JAPAN would have flavor.
Fucking weeb

>>2095688
Japs are honorary, I don't know what to tell you.

>>2095692
>SH-SHIMATTA!
>A BIGGU BURRAKU MANO STOLU MAI WAILETTO
>TASUKETE GAIJIN SAMA!
japs are just another bug minded chink that mutted with cavemen, to equate us with them is to insult us. Besides, it’s EUROPA Universalis, Europeans should get full attention, not divided with anyone else, especially with a backwards people who have little to show within the timeframe of EU5

>>2095699
>Swede posting AI slop to mock Japs for being shocked that Paris (city in a European country) looks like Africa
It's sometimes hard to comprehend just how cucked the Swedes are.

>Negus of Abyssinia -> Grand Rabbi of the United tribes of Judea playthrough
How would this work in EU5 with pops? In EU4 its possible since culture and religious conversions automagically change the entire province, but how would the <1% ruling pop control wrong religion and culture pops in EU5.

>>2095724
And what are you, Amerimutt? You’re the semenwhore that accepts DNA from everywhere and strongarmed us to do the same, we will not make the same mistake again. You should be thanking is anyway, your culture is just a knock-off and outdated copy of the British’s, you have no ethnic identity and default to every european descended person in your country as ‘white’ because your brains are too dumb to comprehend ethnic lineage.

You know what? That’s it no more colonial content in EU5, EVER.

>>2095699
Due to material conditions Japan essentially is a European nation. They went through the exact same stages of development as Europe and were thoroughly westernized in the Meiji era and then again after WW2.
It is actually accurate to say that they more closely resemble European society as it used to be than the West does today. Japan is closer to traditional European society in 2025 than the West is.

>>2095683
>>2095699
>>2095768
Japan had no relevance to the world during this game's entire timeframe.

>>2095793
Neither did Byzantium.

>>2095660
>why not the rest of the world?
In EU4 most of the time you could get away with some kind of syncretist mechanics or acting like the religion X actually represents X mixed with religion Y, the latter playing second fiddle. For the former we have some SEA Hindus having Buddha as a patron deity or Confucian harmonization system doing a good enough job in eg. Vietnam, for the latter we have Buddhist, Confucian and SEA Hindu areas also implicitly containing disparate local traditions nobody actually gives a shit about.
China is a bit too much of a clusterfuck for that system to work because other than minor traditions like ancestral cults or folk religions which we can mostly brush aside like in the above-mentioned examples we also have the big three traditions of roughly equal importance, all of which ought to be represented somehow. Sure, we could content ourselves with relegating Confucianism to being a state religion, but even then we still have an additional issue of simultaneously representing both Mahayana Buddhism and Taoism among the populace. Picking one over the other(or picking Confucianism as EU4 did) is not a satisfying answer as it deemphasises the importance of the tradition that wasn't picked, trying to geographically distribute them would be plain nonsense and a fool's errand as they're too intertwined, so we might as well bite the bullet and say the chnks follow the three teachings and be done with it.

>>2095746
I'm sure the poster angry at a Jap's shock about the absolute state of Paris's demographics is actually concerned with ethnic lineage. Does you country even differentiate between the actual ethnic natives and foreigners? If you're a butthurt Swede I already know the answer to that.
>accepts DNA from everywhere
Sounds like Sweden. I don't really intend to mock Sweden itself. It historically has had a disproportionate scientific output and managed to be a great home for its people up until recently. This king of seething posting is either misplaced or D&C. I have to assume the latter given the original post I was replying to.

>>2095688
>>2095699
average brown mutt cope
you will never be White

>>2095794
They had an impact on the world through dying.

>>2095813
Okay, I mostly agree with your points, didn’t know EU5’s Hinduism included Buddha. But how would we represent the Korean’s government of Joseon that made it clear the separation of power of the Buddhist religion (and a majority? Buddhist people, I don’t know if they folk retained their folk religions like other places) and make it known Confucianism was the one in power? Sometimes they’ll suppress it, and it’s clear Buddhists have little political power from the transition of Goryeo to Joseon. Unless I’m reading wrong, EU5’s Confucianism does little to address it since its mechanic is focused on governance and shiet. Their tinto flavor doesn’t cover it too.

I don’t know about Dai Viet around this time period but I found something that tries to argue for a similar three religions system (despite their state religion being buddhism until the 1400s), not sure how credible it is though. The majority people now practice the folk religion too.
Vietnam:
https://oapub.org/soc/index.php/EJPSS/article/download/633/1215

>>2095858
Korea is irrelevant so it doesn't matter

>>2095866
You’re absolutely right, I KNEEL to your BASED take

>>2095858
Have Confucianism be a state religion with access to eastern buddhist mechanics for China and Korea that sees sanjiao and eastern buddhist as righteous respectively, for Vietnam, make population sanjiao and state religion eastern buddhist with the option to convert to Confucianism in the 15th century and have sanjiao also be seen as righteous (basically make the majority religion of the people for all confucian states be righteous). Done

>all these brownoid thord world religions
theres only one pagan religion i care about.

Korea starts the game as "Eastern Buddhist" with "Confucianism", "Flower Garland School" (Hwaeom), and "Musok" as their adopted sects.
The Joseon Dynasty starts with Sanjiao religion with "Flower Garland School" as their sect and a later event about persecuting buddhists that changes Flower Garland to Musok.

Source: My ass, but this is probably how it will go.

>>2095858
>EU5’s Hinduism included Buddha
Idk about EU5(wouldn't be surprised if it had that) but Buddha as a Hindu deity was already an option in EU4 for Majahapit and Sunda through missions as well as for Cambodia if it went back to Hinduism. I can see this concept returning in EU5

>But how would we represent the Korean’s government of Joseon that made it clear the separation of power of the Buddhist religion (and a majority? Buddhist people, I don’t know if they folk retained their folk religions like other places) and make it known Confucianism was the one in power?
The dev diaries make it clear that "Eastern Buddhism" is a bit broader in scope than just plain Mahayana, see pic related containing available groups for Eastern Buddhism as well as this particular line from dev diary
>Eastern Buddhism countries can belong to a maximum of 3 sects, while the rest of the religions allow for a maximum of a single sect.
Combining the choice of 3 sects that with the promote/disfavor mechanic gives as a rough idea how would things go in-game: Goryeo follows some Buddhist sect, Musok and probably Confucianism, most likely promoting Buddhism; then Joseon comes to power, promotes Confucianism and disfavors Mahayana and also presumably also Musok.

>>2095908
You are right, I am wrong

>>2095898
>mudhut
indifferent sōyface
>mudhut sweden
excited sōyface

>>2095902
>>2095908
>no Manichean sect
>we've been denied Pure Land-Manichean-Daoist Red Turban ludo
Bros...

>>2095380
Really thinking about it the Nahua religion literally could exist outside a state. No state and no way to farm sacrifices to keep the sun going. It's literally only the religion of a collapsed civilisation and can't exist elsewhere.

>>2095516
DESU To select either school your Sinicism value should be high enough.

>>2095958
>could
*couldn't

>>2095439
What's the point in all these extremely minor religions that will get rolled over the nanosecond first contact with Europe or Asia happens?

>>2095898
Aww look at the wittle nowse blob :)

>>2095898
First mod I’m making is reverting every single country to a pagan religion

>>2095635
>>2095902
>>2095908
>no Mohism in China
Literally the only folk religion worth a shit in the whole region and they completely ignored it.

>>2095434
>The most important mechanic of the Inti religion is the Yanantin, which is a value that can go from -100 to +100. You’ll mostly get penalties if you’re above or below 0, but it gives the most modifiers when it’s exactly and perfectly balanced at 0
How daring

>>2095991
this but with tiny pockets of schizokino like the gnostic Cathars, Messianic jews or the Yazidi.

>>2095969
Religious conflict. Tardwrangling 2 dozen conquered religions is more of a pain in the ass then all those territories just being one religion. Or something like that.

>>2096002
It’s okay, the right to rebel is part of China for a long time already

lads.. i want to play the game..

>>2096036
2027 bro, just hold on a bit longer

>>2095954
the mudhuts of northern europe 3000 years ago were more advanced than the mudhuts european explorers found all over the world a few centuries ago

>>2095439
Daily reminder the game would have been released by now if they didn't bother adding flavor for all these nig-nogs.

>>2096068
Nah, the game is far from done. The UI is still horrible and the mechanics about diplomacy, war and peace settlements still feel half-baked as fuck.

>>2096059
LOL!

>>2096082
>The UI is still horrible
What do you dislike about it?

>>2096059
I remember seeing pictures of some structures in east Africa that were apparently so impressive the European explorers who went there thought it had to have been made by Arab slave traders. The walls looked identical to prehistoric structures I saw while visiting Ireland. It reminded me of that "opulent" pic.

>>2096059
>my mudhuts were better than your mudhuts
lmao, the absolute state of nords

>>2096127
>nords
You're not Roman, Juan.

>>2096057
No way, 2027 us too far

>>2091083
Doesn't matter since black death will randomize it.

>>2091311
AI will be severely restrained by mechanics and barely expand same as in Vic3.

>>2095991
First mod I’m gonna make is cut off all routes to the Americas in the Atlantic and give Japan explorer and conquistador mechanics

>>2096253
I think theres a marine currents system too

>>2096256
I REVERSE any marine currents pushing from the Americas to Asia,I REMOVE all sea current locations

>>2096262
I REMOVE all sea current locations connecting Europe to Americas via the Atlantic. AMERICA WILL BELONG TO JAPAN

>>2090967
Yes because the euroaches have been such peace loving little flowers throughout history and totally never made up stories about the peoples they oppressed

>>2096266
>Mexica BVLL
That’s an oxymoron and you know it. You think latinos were created from the submission of ‘euroach’ women to aztec ‘men’?

>Yes because the euroaches have been such peace loving little flowers throughout history and totally never made up stories about the peoples they oppressed
you cant deny the evidence of the horrific shit your ‘people’ did to each other. It required the backend of Europe to civilize you.

>>2096113
Ethiopia was fairly developed as far as I'm aware. I think the one thing that really screwed Africa in general was its isolation from the 3 big Eurasian population centers Europe/India/China, so advancements there would make their way all across the silk road before ever being heard of in Africa. It's also why the northern half of the continent had much more going for it than the southern half

I hope they don't backtrack on wanting to keep things more realistic than CK3/HoI4/Victoria 3, in the sense that nonsense shit can happen, like a Thailand world conquest or whatever. I love the sound of Victoria 2 but set in the medieval-early modern era.

>>2096286
>Ethiopia was fairly developed as far as I'm aware
Lmao

>>2096286
Read Ecological Imperialism

>>2095793
>Japan had no relevance to the world during this game's entire timeframe.
They made a valiant attempt at colonizing the mainland in the 1590s

>>2096358
That attempt was so shitty that despite the incompetence of Joseon and the Ming, one man was able to push the Japanese back

>>2096360
>live on a bunch of islands
>get your navy's shit pushed in by a peninsular midget

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIdUaP7InV0

Eh... is this the best a map game in 2025 has to offer?

step up and do better if you expect better

>>2096469
thats terrible
i was assumed what they showed to be "before" and expected something that's "after" to come at any moment

>>2096002
>muh philosophy that has been dead for 1500 years at the game's start
That's even more of a meme pick than Hellenism, at least the latter had Plethon

We all know the most fun and kino nation to play as in EU5, just like EU4 will be the Timurids

Muslim Mongol chads stay winning

>>2096469
>>2096470
I think it looks fine, everyone complained about how hilly the EUIV map was when it first came out so I'm glad they showed some restraint here. Having said that, the aesthetics reminded me of Medieval 2 which is a game that's almost 20 years old.

>>2096591
i don't feel right playing as any brown nations

>>2096630
Literally me but with honkys

The euroid peninsula of asia is made to be conquered by yellow and brown chads in my games

no one cares about your impotent brownoid fantasies, you are always going to be cattle remember this

Whitey are literally cattle of zionist jews tho

for me its going to be the Zaporizhzhia Cossacks

>>2096470
Is it really so hard to just copy the I:R map
I don't understand how they made an amazing map like 10 years ago and then just completely forgot how to do it

>>2096682
Probably all the staff got recycled and nobody is around.

how does the moscow/kiev region look in 1337? this will probably be the main place i'll play in with eu5

>>2096469
>>2096470
They need to drop the 3d map nonsense already, specially if they are halfassing it this bad. Full 2d will always look better than this retarded faux-boardgame shit with giant out of scale buildings next to even more out of scale soldiers.

>>2096716
it looks better than eu4
as much as one could dream for a 2d experience of eu5, similar to hoi3 in nature but in an absolutely extreme scope, it's never going to be done by parajews again
but hey, at least it looks better than eu4

>>2096469
>>2096470
This reminds me a lot of civ 5's map. The way the rivers are and their weirdly smooth banks, the way the terrain is painted, the fields, the low quality trees. But Civ 5's map looked better because the textures were better, and features actually had shadows.
The weird thing is, civ 5 came out 15 years ago... so why does this game look so bad?
Considering the 3D map barely even ran at all in the pre-release version, I'm guessing it's a performance issue.
As >>2096682 said it's weird they could make a better map before and now they can't. They DID learn to copy the heightmap thing and map looks way better than before as a result, but it's still civ 5-esque.

everyone will play in 2D anyway so i'm not sure why they put so much time and budget into this

For me what they should do is make all the assets on the map absolutely tiny and make it so you can zoom WAY in to see them.
This is already perfectly accomplishable with mods, and I use them, but I don't understand why it isn't the default. Who asked for cities to be this size?

>>2096469
They really fucked up including 3D trees again. If they spam them all over the map to show proper forestation then framerate dies from drawing 9000 triangles, but if they try and space them out it looks both ugly AND unrealistic. They needed to make "forest" a green texture on the map and portray the scale more like a satellite image. Buildings being oversized models are one thing but trees look dumb as hell that way.

>>2096795
The worst part is that in liqqi 3 specifically the terrain doesn't even matter because there's no units and in EU5 the terrain barely matters. This isn't like Hoi where attacking into a city or a mountain makes a crucial difference in the performance of your tanks and thus cities and such have to be clearly visible (even though flat maps are still better for that too). When the terrain has no real gameplay implications on moment to moment army micro it sucks balls that it's taking half the screen.

>>2096801
3D map has always been awful for actual gameplay. I've never seen anyone play on the terrain map in any paradox game, except when they force you to use it due to zoom levels. I genuinely believe the 3D map only exists to look pretty and sell the game in screenshots, so honestly they should just throw gameplay considerations out the window and make it look like a work of art.
someone on the forums said the map needs more variance in elevation like Imperator, Johan replied the map was smoothed in places to accommodate cities. Well, then just don't do that. don't accommodate cities, make the map pretty. because that's all the 3D map is for. Nobody's gonna play the game like that, it's just to look at.

>strategy game
>major complaint is that the forts(which are essentially monopoly houses functionarily), aren't photorealistic to scale
community feedback isn't always a valuable thing

>>2096795
It's weird that paradox's map tech is stuck around Civ V level. Look at that building or whatever in the middle, it looks just like one of those embassies a diplomat can build in a city-state. The roads are the same too. Or how every coastline has a spray painted gravel texture with perfect smoothing. Look at how the fields are cut off as well.
And this is with a mod to improve the looks?

At least in EU5 they have the sense to include a flatmap that will probably be high quality as I assume the devs are playing on that.

>>2096824
Forts had graphics in EU4 as well but they were just for looks. They'd have a 2D icon hovering over the province where they are so they're visible at all times. Which both looks better and is more visible than "brown splotch copypasted on every other location then scaled up 400%"

>At least in EU5 they have the sense to include a flatmap that will probably be high quality

what will the day 1 dlc's be and at what price tag
hoping we don't have to wait so long for 'women in history' this time

>>2096836
They already showed pre-order bonus map objects. (one reason why they'll never listen to everyone saying "scale everything down")

>bonus map objects

>>2096836
$20 extra for byzantium flavor (it's all debuffs)

I can at least hope someone will mod in a nice 2D map right?

>>2096863
>someone
GODhan has already confirmed that it's an option in the settings

>>2096864
I mean a drawn/artistic one

>>2096864
Flat map option probably doesn't mean an actual 2D flat map, just has the worst mountains smoothed out and certainly won't mean an actual real good 2D flat map.

>>2096865
>>2096879
Sorry that wasn't the right picture.

>>2095439
Shiite revival will be fun

>>2096884
Darkest Hour bros... we won

>>2096795
>mogs EU5 already
over

>>2096469
They really thought this was impressive enough to show it by itself.

>>2097028
what is this gif from

>>2096286
>I think the one thing that really screwed Africa in general
Other than being populated by niggers?
>It's also why the northern half of the continent had much more going for it than the southern half
Because it was populated by arabs instead of niggers?

>>2095158
>1337
I forgot about this dumb shit. EU5 is going to have more and dumber DHEs because of this.

>>2096286
This is true and almost no one seems to discuss it. Imagine an Egypt that was actually reconquered by the Crusaders, this could have connected the Ethiopian World with the European World and Ethiopian civilization would have flourished into a new Golden Age.
Hell, even the Aragonese actually wanted to pact an alliance with the Ethiopians in this timeline, despite them being surrounded by a "muslim sea".

>Alfonso was the object of diplomatic contacts from the Empire of Ethiopia. In 1428, he received a letter from Yeshaq I of Ethiopia, borne by two dignitaries, which proposed an alliance against the Muslims and would be sealed by a dual marriage that would require Alfonso's brother Peter to bring a group of artisans to Ethiopia where he would marry Yeshaq's daughter.
>In return, Alfonso sent a party of 13 craftsmen, all of whom perished on the way to Ethiopia. He later sent a letter to Yeshaq's successor Zara Yaqob in 1450, in which he wrote that he would be happy to send artisans to Ethiopia if their safe arrival could be guaranteed, but it probably never reached Zara Yaqob.

Now imagine if Ethiopia actually had access (and was part) of the Western World.

god i hate people who pretend if africans just had x they'd be super advanced
do you REALLY think ethiopia would be first world if egypt was christian? REALLY though?

ethiopia wasn't technologically advanced but it was equivalent in size to the Holy Roman Empire (including Italy), so that it didn't fragment as much as the Germans and lasted for as long as it did is impressive for a bunch of Africans
I can't speak for what their actual military was like outside of Age of Empires 2 but that Nubia existed to keep the Baqt shows there still would've been some contention for Prester John to do anything in Egypt

>europe strong because industrialization
so how did the dutch and portuguese manage to settle angola, mozambique, and south africa before any of this wealth?
it really is as simple as black people dumb, everything else is cope

>>2097067
Nah they have more against them than just being subhuman in intelligence
It's definitely the largest factor though

>>2097067
>settle
portuguese explorers just fucked the native women and never went more than 30 miles beyond the coast

>>2097070
I just don't buy the geography crap. The goalposts shift endlessly.
Africa has every type of land, resource rich, resource poor, ample fertile land, barren sandy land, yet one factor uniting them is that they are all shitholes. If they have no resources it's not their fault, if they have all the resources it's "the resource curse" and it's still not their fault.
The same land 100 miles away run by Arabs is prosperous, so it's not the land that's magically making them inept.
College courses on Sub-Saharan "history" and their consequences have been a disaster for the historian race.

Ethiopians could have been nigs but they were nowhere near as useless as the rest of them. They actually managed to keep the Europeans out from their lands and even BTFO the Italians for a while, and all of this after their just had their own version of the "Warlord Era", aka the "Era of the Princes".

>>2097067
>how did the dutch and portuguese
The Dutch basically were proto-industrialized by that point and were the ones in doing it so, despite what anglos actually say.
The Portuguese actually only colonized a few ports, like >>2097075 said, and the ones who really did the proper workload of colonization were the descendants of these peoples, a lot of the times mixed ones. See the Bandeirantes.

>>2097075
>never went more than 30 miles beyond the coast
Let me guess, you think you need more?

>>2095191
So basically you call yourself an advanced modder, criticize game devs because you are a smartass and yet has nothing of yours published?

I beg to god Anbennar devs are the most arrogant and toxic fuckers ever.

And just for the record, Anbennar is just OK. Nothing incredible for all the noise it generates.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-32-18th-of-july-2025-inca.1850044/

Hello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will take a look at the flavour content for the Inca! Let’s start without further ado:

The high volcanoes and fast rivers of the Andes Mountains hide and nourish the Sacred Valley of the Incas, where we, the sons of the Sun, dwell in the magnificent city of Qusqu as we prepare for the glorious future that awaits us.

After years of consolidation and politics, the time has come for our people to expand their influence outside our great valley, to defeat our enemies and to follow the paths of the mountains to each of the corners of this world. Are we ready to take on this destiny? Or will those who oppose us beat us before reaching our prime?

As usual, please consider all UI, 2D and 3D Art as WIP.

Qusqu has a quite unique start, in the middle of the Andes.

Let’s start by taking a look at the Estates panel, as usual. The countries of the region, including Qusqu, start with a unique government reform:

As you see, it unlocks a bunch of mechanics. The first is the Panaqas:

Numbers are subject to balance and change, as usual.

They are instantly built at the death of the ruler, by this event:

As you see, Panaqas are a double-edged sword: they increase the Levy Size, but their cost is removing the Crown Power from the location they’re built in. Therefore, they might potentially be very good buildings for locations distant from the capital, where you have low control, while being very negative for those locations close to your capital. They can be removed, though, by paying a cost of 10 Legitimacy.

The other two Actions unlocked by the Andean Monarchy reform are connected:

There’s a Cabinet Action that can be used to recruit Acllas, the characters you may marry through the former actions:

By the way, we already reworked the marriage unlocked by the Inti religion that we presented on Wednesday, and it is a new Marriage Policy, ‘Polygyny’:

This policy is set to fit and work along with the Ñusta Marriage and Aclla Recruitment, so Andean countries can set strong diplomatic bonds among them, if they wish.

Andean countries also have a unique privilege available at start, the Mit’a System:

Andean countries also have several unique buildings that are unlocked by some advances available in the Age of Traditions:

Let’s now take a look at some of the unique advances available for Qusqu:

But wait, so far, we’ve talked about Qusqu, but not about Inca, which was the supposed topic of the Tinto Flavour. That is because it is another piece of content for today, the formable Inca Empire:

Qusqu starts with 2 locations, and may have to grow up to 62 to be able to form the Inca Empire… So, yeah, a challenging ‘rags to riches’ campaign.

As you see, if you form it, you’ll get a new government reform that will replace the Andean Monarchy, which is the Tawantinsuyu Monarchy:

So, as you can see, much of the content available for Qusqu is based on mechanics. However, it still has some events to play with:

… And much more, but that’s all for today! Next week we’ll have a Tinto Maps Feedback on Monday, a Tinto Talks on Wednesday, and Tinto Flavour on Friday; @Roger Corominas will host all of them, as I’ll be off the entire week:

Monday -> Tinto Maps Feedback for China
Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about the mechanics for the Middle Kingdom, the Chinese Empire IO!
Friday -> Tinto Flavour about China

See you in a couple of weeks! And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!

A classic oh nonono tinto post

It's China time

>>2097267
>Monday -> Tinto Maps Feedback for China
>Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about the mechanics for the Middle Kingdom, the Chinese Empire IO!
>Friday -> Tinto Flavour about China
Why is the pacing for this so fucking shit? Another month without relevant european news.

>>2097267
>Spaniards fucked this
Must be their food.

>>2097267
>China
Can't wait for all the chink butthurt.

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT SOUTH AMERICA!!!>!>!!!>!HIFAOWHDI

most flavour outside of europe should have been DLC, game would have been already out by now

I don't care about niggers and tribesmen, what I want is a functional european supremacy inside the game and a simulationist approach of colonisation's decreasing return, meaning I don't want to see nations spamming colonies the moment they reach the technology that permits it. There's should be a reason in having an african port because of the Strategic and Logistical gains, but after having one there shouldn't be an advantage in carpet colonising the rest of Africa like there is in eu4, because it wouldn't really give more value.
The commercial colonies (meaning not settlers colonies), especially in Africa, should be a strain after they start expanding too much and also be an administrative mess.

Hello guys, this week we will talk you about some brown people in loincloth, really really interesting and important in our next game EUROPA universalis 5

And, next week (drum roll), hold on to the seats...

NORTH SENTINEL, we will reveal the map we made for it, and all the flavour we added to this historically important people, we added up to 4 million unique events to this nation/tribe/whatever

Yeah, about the release date... Something like 2030 or so, we'll keep you updated

>>2097327
the problem with johan/paradox is they announced eu5 too early, now he's got the crowd that only plays gsgs (the impatient fucks in here) foaming at the mouth for a 2025 release, as embarrassing as it looks for you

>>2097339
Colonization should be harder simply on the virtue of having to drain your pops to do it. Like how fucking empty will Spain be if they colonize their historic domains?

>>2097351
not just spanish people went to the colonies, people from the entire habsburg realm went there or joined as marines

>>2097354
Nah, that's not true, the colonization of the Americas was purely a Castilian affair. Not even the Aragonese were allowed to settle there.

>>2097360
I thought Basques made up a large proportion of spanish settlers to the new world?

>>2097351
Isn’t Spain relatively empty now too?

>>2096861
>$20 extra for byzantium flavor (it's all debuffs)
based, wouldn't have it any other way

>>2097277
July is for non-Europeans

>>2097267
finally, the only relevant country

>>2096797
>>2096469
this is mobile-game-tier, unironically
all that DLC money and this is the best they can do? all flatlands have the same exact elevation as well lmfao, where's the inovation?

>>2097429
*innovation

>>2097429
aren't paradox funded by their government? i don't think the dlc money is even most of their income

>>2097434
>funded by their government
That explains their focus on thirdie nations

vic3 has a prettier map but you never interact with it so its pointless

you must be talking about the zoomed-in map
because vic3's paper map looks like low-opacity DOGSHIT

>paper map
who cares? 90% of the time I'm zoomed in

>>2097436
>>2097441
>>2097453
This is not a chatroom retards, learn to quote the post you're replying to

>>2097436
>vic3 has a prettier map

>>2097249
The terrain looks so weird I briefly thought this was an anbennar map from the thumbnail

I wish we could have an EU3/Vicky2 style flat political map instead of the awful (imo) 3D maps...

Brutally mogged by the imperator map
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/eu5-vs-imperator-3d-map.1849160
Why did they even release that video I'd be ashamed of showing that

>>2097523
something something had to reduce detail something something full world instead of just europe something something smol indie company pls understand

>Is there any flavour about Incan Qhapaq Nan (Royal road)?

>It could increase friendly movement speed and maybe even removing mountain movement lock in winter in historic road routes (after building them gradually)

You can mechanically build the road system, and then there's this unique advance that gives some bonuses:

>How is the Aclla Distribution Mechanic from Andean Empire different from the Aclla marriage one from the Andean kingdom?

>Also, should the tambos not give some form of control bonus as per their own description?

>Is there a requirement for a certain type of terrain to build terrraces and pukaras?

>And lastly, how does expansion work in a setting where few states border each other? that was actually what i was most expectant to see in this dev diary.

1. Oh, it's the same, I changed the naming while preparing the TF, for better clarity, and I forgot to change that one. Changing it in the main post, thanks.
2. Forwarding.
3. Yes, mountains, plateau or hills.
4. The main driver is the Settle the Frontier Cabinet Action:

>Awesome! However, I have some questions. What nations are considered to be Andean nations that start with the Andean monarchy government reform? The Andean monarchy government reform has a lot of very interesting flavour for the Incas and other surrounding peoples, but doesn't necessary represent other Andean nations such as the Muisca or those in Andean Argentina, Ecuador or Chile. The Muisca shouldn't have this type of Andean monarchy and instead could get a unique "international organization" to represent the various chiefdoms that were part of the "Muisca Confederation". I hope we get to see unique flavour for both the Muisca and the Haudenosaunee sometime in the, hopefully near, future.

Here is the extension of the 'Andean' culture group, using or new, lovely contextual map modes:

>>2097377
Basques were part of the Crown of Castile at that time, so they didn't have problems in that regard.

>>2093247
>>2091116
All these retards have to do is add more locations to the region. I've seen the location and provincial breakdown place and it's absolutely ridiculous how retardedly compact and simplistic it is. All they did was make all the cities into oversized locations and left no rural regions, forts, cantonments or temple/shrine towns to balance it all out.

When you point it out, the retarded Paragoys start seething and ranting about muh performance and increasing granularity making the region difficult to play.

IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE HELL TO PLAY, kek. India never had a strong, centralised government or demographics to begin with. Even a large confederated imperial state like Delhi or the Mughals should have to manage low autonomy and a web of vassals and governors as the primary focus of survival, lol.

>>2097816
Or just make less retarded mechanics so that you don't have to give some random shithole a billion locations for no reason.

>>2097816
If they add more locations then the area bloons in population

>>2097840
Bloons?
Well I guess they basically are monkeys.

>>2097841
I think it got mixed with balloons

>>2097835
India isn't really a random shithole. I'd much rather it get a billion locations with decent RGO diversity, higher pop caps, pop diversity to fuck over any chance of internal cohesiveness and of course some development and control maluses than some random malaria-ridden African, permafrost-having Siberian, desert Outback or mountainous Balkan shitholes. Those places unironically have better granularity than fucking India, a place of fuckton of wealth and people to colonize and profit off, kek.

I want to be able to colonize, enslave and exploit a bunch of Indian territories that their weak, disunited, corrupt "empires" couldn't save like how it was in history. What good is a territory at max pop capacity, at fully centralized and stable governance (thanks to the retarded and overpowered way the locations are grouped) with worse RGO diversity than the fucking Low Countries for potential colonization?

>>2097840
Well, not historically inaccurate. At present, the core of India in the Indo-Gangetic plains starts off at maximum pop cap which is quite honestly the stupidest shit ever considering that the population of the region more than doubled during the game's timeframe

>>2097852
>7 billion indians by 1500 isn't historically inaccurate

>>2097852
Is it really enslavement if they were already slaves? More of a transfer of property, right?

It's crazy how nobody had negative opinions of Indians until 10 years ago

>>2097816
it's almost like they purposefully make bad decisions now in order to sell DLC that fixes them later
saar, we need to protest this

>>2097903
It's exposure. I used to think that black people were lovely since I grew up in a place without any black people.
Boy was I mistaken.

>>2097903
Indians have been flooding my city for the past 30 years. I've watched as they've ruined everything they come into contact with.
I despise them and wish we could turn their subcontinent into a giant concentration camp for all those disgusting freaks.

>>2097916
i have never lived with indians
i wouldn't mind breeding with an indian cutie, especially one from rapistan who has an accent

>>2097855
You know very well that you're unnecessarily exaggerating what I'm suggesting, kek.
>>2097906
Kek, seems like it. Maybe they'll make more than one DLC to appease the Saars this time seeing how completely libcucked they've become.

Idk, I actually support it as long as it doesn't completely surpass the flavour and detail Europe gets. It will make for even more fun and engaging colonizer runs

>>2097816
the worst part is most of the suggestions they got weren't even particularly egregious like the abofag made but they barely added anything.
99% sure they're just saving it for dlc

>>2098049
Will probably be released after the ones on Islam and China, now that I've seen the dev diaries. Tinto constantly cucking over their huge Chinese playerbase yet still retaining their players will never cease to amuse me, kek

>>2097919
Do not redeem the Indian female, lmao

>>2097919
>i have never lived with indians
>i wouldn't mind breeding with an indian cutie
checks out, you won't think that for long

>>2097919
one day in London will change your mind

I would personally breed Indian females but only if they make their pathetic "men" watch and agree to fuck off back to India with an upper-caste mutt baby that will rule over the swarms of Dalits and help make their shithole somewhat advanced, organised and livable

>>2098097
>I want to recreate Latin America but in India

>>2098098
They were alright back when they were still 40-50% Aryan. I'm just helping send things back in that direction. Besides, Latin Americans are still overwhelmingly better than Indians if you take out their inclination to violence and servile nature

>>2098097
i was trying to find the post about what indian women have to keep in mind for dating white men but i found pic related instead lmao

>>2098104
>Indian women actually get more attractive as they age

>>2098064
same reason they get away with retaining their white players, captive audience

>>2098104
Only the centre one is somewhat ugly (and even that is mostly just because of the shitty makeup). Left and right are plain 4-5 breedable cuties

>>2098104
>Soccerbabe24

>>2091147
Dunno for pajeetland but China is basically one giant plateau filled with rice, easily navigable rivers, and protected by sea, mountains and steppes from invasions. Its a very good recipe for insane for population explosion

>>2091470
Stellaris but fantasy. They pretty much published AoW IV to taste the waters on a fantasy strategy game

>>2091593
As the spanish already knew a long time ago, Dios is litterally on their side

>>2095969
Its called flavour and being faithfull to history you prick minmaxxer

>>2095956
Manichean will likely be a minor cult lurking deep within China, as it was for most of its history (and for some schizos, even today still)

>>2098125
>Its a very good recipe for insane for population explosion
We should get some white people up in there

>>2096130
At last i am not LARPing as a le based white pagan conquer on a chinese origami forums while my city is being overrun with niggers and somalis molesting my people's women

>>2097903
They arent protected by western state propaganda as Blacks and (to a less level) muslims. Also all kinds of white women also are severely disgusted by them and they pretty much drive the public opinion on normie social medias

>>2098097
Megha please keep your weird sexual fantasies about white men breeding you and all the other indian women in the whole world on Instagram, thanks

>>2097903
All racism is driven by proximity, which is the exact opposite of what liberals claim.

>>2098125
Only the triangle from like Beijing-Nanjing-Changan is actually flat plain.

>>2098125
So is India. The Indo-Gangetic Plains are literally the same shit (flat land, alluvial and loess soil, good strains of wheat and millets, large navigable and irrigation-worthy rivers, subtropical climate, generally defended by the Himalayas and Hindu Kush)

Also, a correction. Rice is more of a Southern Chinese thing. The North China Plain is traditionally a wheat-milletchud region

>>2098144
I'm an Irish-English-Norwegian American, my dear Saar

>>2098180
What makes India so disunited for most of its history then? A Selfish culture?

>>2098209
Why do they need to be united? They are different people.

where leaked build saars

>>2097459
blame gsg for this faggotry

>>2098209
India is not a single culture you gigaretard, it's about as culturally heterogeneous as Europe

>>2098268
Neither was China at first. Still isn't, not entirely. Skill issue on the pajeets' part.

>>2093247
>>2097852
Isn't it obvious the max population cap will increase with technology and buildings? The pajeets have always been at the maximum carrying capacity of their land before nitrogen fertilization was invented at the beginning of the 20th century. They have always had a famine every decade because they rape and breed like insects (which they blame on the english even though its happened for all their history).

>>2098209
The part of India analogous to the Central Plain in India is the north Gengetic plain and that's been united for more than it hasn't been. The question should be why northern India never assimilated its version of the Baiyue.

>>2098306
Same shit as saying all of Europe not being united for the last 2000 years is a skill issue.

>>2098567
It was a skill issue.

So how will they handle the explosion in pops from new world crops spreading? How will taters expand food supply?

>>2098699
We don't know because they still haven't given any details for the columbian exchange besides teasing it several times times, apparently going into detail on all the near-identical-but-with-slight-differences of all the different forms of religious mana is a more important priority for dev diaries.

>>2098699
that part of the game hasn't been developed yet

>>2098306
>>2098567
>Europe stays fractured
>creates enormous competition and advancement
>India stays fractured
>creates the same stagnation as China, but easier to conquer
Yeah, skill issue.

>>2098306
all the various chinese and european cultures are culturally and genetically much more similiar than "indians"

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/tinto-maps-23-china-feedback.1850456/

Hello and welcome to another week of Tinto Maps Feedback, in which we will take a look at China!

This area has received quite a bit of changes, although the locations themselves have not been touched that much. One change that we still have in the plans to do is to update all location names to use the names of the counties instead of the county seats, as, after the feedback we received, we agree that this is the best way to name locations in China. However, it’s a long list of names that we have to check and change, so it will take a while to do it all. To that effect, we would appreciate any help you can give us by providing lists of the current names of locations and the county name they should use instead. We are aware that there were already many suggestions for name changes in the first Tinto Maps, and we have them already bookmarked, but any further suggestions and feedback will be equally appreciated, and even more if ‘compilations’ of county names by provinces/areas are made.

Countries:

Quite a lot more to see here compared to the previous iteration. As you can see, we have added the Tusi states, which is a new type of subject, in the border towards Yunnan.

Dynasties:

Societies of Pops:

Country ranks and Government Types:

Locations:

As I said, not much substantial changes here, but some small touches here and there.

ADDITIONS
Added the following:

Locations
Qídōng
Dépíng
Tángyì
Cháochéng
Geshitsa
Kazhi
Gurkyang
Lakes
Hala Nur
Jūyán Sea
Qīngtǔ Lake

Ping pong ching chang, do you rike rosted dogs?

Provinces:

Areas:

Climate:

Topography:

Vegetation:

>>2099397
>>2099401
>As I said, not much substantial changes here, but some small touches here and there
chinkout incoming

Development:

There are some pending adjustments towards making the division between the ‘core’ China region and the northern provinces less steep; we’re holding them a bit, until we complete the final regional division divide (which will be soon).

Harbors:

Cultures:

China had quite a bit of cultures before the review, now it has quite a bit more, also with plenty of minorities…

Religion:

Location languages

Location dialects

Country languages (the Mongolian name is not visible in main China due to it being spread all over up to the Golden Horde)

Court Languages. Mandarin is also the court language of all direct vassals of Yuán, while those using other languages are vassals of vassals.

Liturgical Languages. Yuán starts following Tibetan Buddhism, so it uses Tibetan Language, but Eastern Buddhism as well as Sānjiào are set to use Classical Chinese.

Raw Materials:

Markets:

And that’s all for today! Remember that we have more China-related content planned for the rest of the week:

Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about the mechanics for the Middle Kingdom, the Chinese Empire IO!
Friday -> Tinto Flavour about China


And always as a reminder: Wishlist Europa Universalis V now!

Holy shit, the Changs are going to go mental. Still sad, desu. Chinkoids deserve many improvements to their territories

>>2099421
bro.... your DLC????

>>2099397
>although the locations themselves have not been touched that much
This kills the bloatmaxxing Chinaman.

>>2099426
My DLC?

>>2099421
>the Changs are going to go mental
When are they not mental?

>>2098097
>>2098104
I would breed these indians, to be quite honest.

>>2099432
Unironically they’re considered ugly to pajeets, like what are their standards? A one to one copy of Gandhi’s shit?

Also wtf is this caption

>>2099416
Where the Mercury at?

>>2099435
kek, so the feeling is mutual, because northeastern indians hate the rest of indians with a passion

>>2099439
>so the feeling is mutual
Hello Saar Chang, the great republic requires your homeland be incorporated into the People’s Republic of China due to our ethnic similarities. Do not resist.

Chinks having a meltdown in the thread as expected

>>2099428
yes sar

>>2099473

>>2099489
>Neither does one observe interlops vandalising European tinto talks with accusations of nationalism
bro did he miss the Balkans ones?

>>2099483
I'm Finnish

>>2099493
my commiserations

>>2099489
funny

>>2099489
Based Chinese elocutionist.

>>2099492
>implying chinks give a fuck about other countries outside theirs

>>2099542
as if anyone from any other country does, kek

>>2099551
Balkanoids care a great deal about how their neighbours are depicted in vidyagaems

>>2099397
I know this is not what this is showcasing but the map graphics on the old version look way better.

>>2099584
no they dont, the old colors and borders are atrocious

>>2099605
old map looks so clean compared to the rainbow vomit they chose for the new one

>>2099605
The wastelands look incredibly ugly, lakes as well (probably because of the water color), the coasts have much less depth
As far as color goes Yuan looks like uncolonized grassland provinces in the new map

>>2099613

This is how it looks when the vassals take the overlord's color scheme

>>2099619
Hainan having Great Yuan written on it makes me chuckle

>>2099584
>>2099605
Did they already have a talk/showcase about the 2d map graphics? I haven't been keeping up. It certainly needs a lot of feedback and if this is what the final game looks like I'll be disappointed

>>2099626
True, kek. Like a "We're here too" graffiti. Name placements in the different mapmodes are a stinking mess, I won't lie

>>2099644
Those are always the last things they do. Even in other games with normal DDs names are a mess until the end.

>>2099489
Unironically based seething chink.
though
>Neither does one observed interlopers vandalising European tinto talks with accusations of nationalism
I'm pretty sure that's already happened at least a few times.

>>2099551
I do, mainly because my country doesn't even exist for most periods of interest.

>>2099877
look at this south sudanese bitch

>>2099877
What countries do New Worlder mystery meat even LARP as in these map starer extraordinaires? Do you all play colonizer campaigns as the countries of every single one of your respective base ethnicities, kek?

>>2099889
Portugal every game
Trying to mutt as many areas of the globe as possible

>>2099892
Kek, based.

Now with pops integrated, the opportunity to micromanage the muttification will be even better

>>2099889
I'll play anyone. I'm equally happy larping as a stereotypical tea-drinking britain, persian fanatics spreading islam far and wide, chinese trying to keep everything from imploding again, aztects seeking more sacrifices or whatever the hell else.
My ancestry is entirely british, though admittedly VERY mutted between english/irish/scottish/welsh.

>>2099913
Based 'Strayan

>>2099889
I larp as the natives from my city. Even though they're probably not my ancestors, I like the prospect of turning my city into the capital of a world spanning empire.

>>2099542
Yeah this lmao, most self-centered people on earth

Anyone noticed the forums are getting DDoS'd.

>>2100165
Why would I go to the forums?

>>2099619
They seriously need to improve these graphics, if anyone told me that screenshot is from vicky3 I'd believe them

I don't get the complaining about graphics
EU always looked ass, the only good thing were the icons and stuff like that not the map
and that is true for most pdx games

>>2100553
victoria 2 is GORGEOUS

>>2097852
>>2098097
>>2098180
>>2098268
>>2098446
>>2097816
Do any Jeets even play grand strategy crap?

If not I think it's a good opportunity for Paracucks to expand into a new market. They love ranting and posting about their saar ancient wealthy superpowers and advanced civilizations so much. They will lop up these kinds of games with their tails wagging since it'll allow them to dwell in whatever retarded fantasies they have.

I mean if Balkanoids, Chinks and Sandjockeys are appealed to these games so much I am certain Jeets would too. Even if you only factor in the 5-7% of Jeets with the sufficient financial resources for buying a decent PC setup and the game at regional pricing and the intelligence for engaging with in-depth complex simulations and mechanics common ingenre, that's still a gigantic potential player base to exploit.

>>2092551
nayrt, can you recommend me some books? It sounds like a fascinating subject.

>>2099619
What's with this mess of tiny vassals? Is that really how it was? The Mongols led over all of China, and then managed a tangled mess of small tribes as vassals instead of just absorbing them into China? Also what's with the Yuan exclaves within the mess of vassals? Were those real?

>>2101000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tusi

>>2099619
You vill own nothing (directly) and you vill be happy

>>2099489
You can tell it’s an AI generated comment, especially with that em dash

>>2100553
it's just their insisting on using some ugly as fuck 3D map
Should stick to a nice, flat, 2D map

>>2101209
>>2101209

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