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Thread 2107753

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Anonymous No.2107753 >>2107805 >>2108046 >>2109093 >>2109282 >>2109381
Zero-K is the pinnacle of RTS.
Anonymous No.2107792 >>2107882 >>2108034
TA and all its descendants are second rate at best.
Anonymous No.2107805
>>2107753 (OP)
It's really good I wish it had players
Anonymous No.2107818
Pretty cool project but it annoys me in so many ways. Still not as annoying as BAR, tho.
Anonymous No.2107882 >>2107938
>>2107792
This, TA was a pretty decent strat for its time but there were better options. But it did well enough that it earned itself a loyal fan-base.

SupCom was an improvement on TA but is now dated and on life-support through FAF.
BAR is a blatant TA/SupCom rip-off, it exists in a weird microcosm where the devs are aware that the gameplay is shitty and needs fixing but they listen to their troons on their discord who insist it's perfect as is.
Zero-K tried to take TA in a new direction, and did so successfully, but it is unfortunately cursed to mediocrity. Because it's attempting to do things different it won't get the loyalty of the OG fans which cripples it for both the dev-team and the player-base. And because TA was not a top-tier strat it will struggle to gain any acclaim outside its circle.
Anonymous No.2107938 >>2107984
>>2107882
There is not a single older RTS I would rather play over TA.
Anonymous No.2107984 >>2107990
>>2107938
And let me guess, if you had to pick a "newer" RTS you would pick BAR...
Anonymous No.2107990 >>2108007
>>2107984
Yes.
Anonymous No.2108007 >>2110010
>>2107990
It was as obvious as your adam's apple.
Anonymous No.2108034
>>2107792
Zero-K saw the potential TA could have and turned it into a masterpiece.
Anonymous No.2108046
>>2107753 (OP)
I play the single player often, but not MP. Its very enjoyable.
Anonymous No.2109093
>>2107753 (OP)
god tier
in my top 3 with warcraft 3
Anonymous No.2109107 >>2112915 >>2113306
post a competitive match that demonstrates how cool the game is
Anonymous No.2109282
>>2107753 (OP)
buy a fucking ad faggot
Anonymous No.2109381
>>2107753 (OP)
ITT: BarFags seethe at the competition.
Anonymous No.2110010
>>2108007
kek
Anonymous No.2112469 >>2112500 >>2112702 >>2113057 >>2117315
Legit question, how is it different from, say, BAR?
Anonymous No.2112500 >>2112878
>>2112469
i'll give you some of the main pointers i guess
flat tech tree: there's no tech progression or tiers, every factory can be plopped immediatly at the start of the game (except striders) and every unit within is availible immediatly
terraforming: zero-k makes full use of spring (recoil?) engine's terraforming features. units and structures with ballistic trajectory weapons get range bonuses from height, ground can be raised and lowered to various effects, blocking projectiles, burrowing structures to make them harder to hit, creating a tall spike for a ballistic unit to sit on.
linear scaling economy: in zero-k, the economy is mostly flat: the team that holds the most mexes on the map will usually win. excess energy not used will be spent to overdrive mexes connected via a grid mechanic, however this overdrive is a diminishing return system, having more mexes to spread the energy among is better than putting a trillion energy into a single mex. all of these things serve to do two things: discourage turtling in a corner and incentivize players to actually fight over the metal spots on the map. turtling is still a valid playstyle, but it has to be done along a map's middle line atleast, or you will forfeit too much income to win. there is no way to synthesize metal from energy like in other ta-likes.
bigger game sizes: bar typically only runs at most 8v8 games, zero-k (currently) has regular games of up to 11v11, and it actually shifted down from 16v16 that was the norm before.
there are other whacky things like a physics system with gravity turrets allowing you to launch certain units across the map for backline attacks
Anonymous No.2112702 >>2112878 >>2112914
>>2112469
BAR is very similar to Total Annihilation, almost an exact copy with some additions and changes.
Zero-K is a complete makeover with some recognizable elements from TA, but huge differences in resource management, unit balance, weapon design, army autonomy - basically a different game at this point.
Anonymous No.2112878
>>2112500
>>2112702
Thanks, I guess I'll give it a try.
Anonymous No.2112914 >>2112954 >>2113404 >>2114441
>>2112702
>army autonomy
This is something that puts BAR to shame and something that they really should implement.
To keep it short, in Zero-K 'idle' units will attempt to evade incoming weapons fire and skirt in out of range of a static emplacements weapon range when attacking. In BAR they'll just stand there and take a shot to the face.
What's really sad if the AI can and will do this at +1000apm but it's not enabled for players despite claiming the game is designed to be played at low apms.
Anonymous No.2112915 >>2113084
>>2109107
i'm going to have to conclude that the game is neither competitive nor cool
Anonymous No.2112954 >>2113258
>>2112914
>'idle' units will attempt to evade incoming weapons fire
They will not. I see them make evasive maneuvers when in combat, especially during attack move, but when chilling out of combat they'll take long range hits again and again without trying to dodge.
>skirt in out of range of a static emplacements weapon range when attacking
I definitely haven't observed that. Units will plunge right into defenses when ordered to attack and only care about their own weapon's range: raider, assault and riot units rush in, skirmishers try to kite but won't try to avoid getting outranged. Certain artillery units, however, do run away from mobile units, which is sometimes useful and sometimes excessively cowardly.
Anonymous No.2113057
>>2112469
Good primer for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKkyNN1zrf8
Anonymous No.2113084
>>2112915
Competitive matches are not cool, so your request was nonsensical in the first place anyway
Anonymous No.2113113 >>2113261
No game that shows a login prompt and "NEWS" in the main menu can ever be good.
Anonymous No.2113258
>>2112954
>evade
They tend to do it against skirmishers frequently. They don't often do it against artillery, probably because the projectiles are fired from outside vision.
Anonymous No.2113261 >>2113394
>>2113113
There's more to RTS games than cheesing the AI.
Anonymous No.2113306 >>2113351 >>2113396
>>2109107
Play it yourself idiot. Videos of games are always inferior to playing the game.
Anonymous No.2113351
>>2113306
Then why are they called VIDEO games????
check AND mate
Anonymous No.2113394 >>2113505
>>2113261
Did you reply to the wrong post? Because yours doesn't make any sense.
Anonymous No.2113396
>>2113306
i have plenty of games to play, why would i waste my time on one even the fans can't be bothered to put in a good light?
Anonymous No.2113404 >>2113538
>>2112914
BAR deliberately disallows widgets that micro units for you. There was an autoskirmish widget (with code ported from ZK) and it got purged
Anonymous No.2113438 >>2113506
It's so cool that they made raiders counter skirmishes not because of some lame damage bonus or weird damage type system but because raiders are fast enough and smart enough to automatically avoid most skirmisher projectiles.
The army autonomy aspect works because it makes a unit's speed essential to its survival and keeps it that way even when there's so much things going on that the player cannot be expected to micro every single raiding unit to dodge every single rocket by hand.
Zero-K is an amazing game, I wish it were much more popular and I'm not sure why it isn't.
Anonymous No.2113505 >>2113535
>>2113394
What are you going to do without logging in?
Anonymous No.2113506
>>2113438
Also nice that you can just a-move units that kite other units that would normally require a <30ms reaction time (fast raider kiting another fast raider).
Anonymous No.2113535 >>2113536
>>2113505
....are you implying that there aren't any RTS that will let you play without making a fucking account?
Anonymous No.2113536 >>2113539
>>2113535
If you're not making an account then playing will just be cheesing the AI. You don't even need an email to create an account.
Anonymous No.2113538 >>2113665
>>2113404
>BAR deliberately disallows widgets that micro units for you.
Not true, the BAR client only restricts widget useage as far as the api allows and what features they've disabled. You can disable custom widgets as a lobby setting but even then you could enable specific ones through the defs setting.

As far as actual widgets go, the ones to auto-reclaim/rez and to auto-retreat damaged units see fairly common useage.
Anonymous No.2113539 >>2113546
>>2113536
...are you implying that there aren't any RTS that will let you play without making a fucking account?
Anonymous No.2113546 >>2113723 >>2118620
>>2113539
>complain about login prompt
>tell you that you can do other things than cheesing the AI
>you somehow get confused
>ask you what you would do other than cheesing the AI
You might be a little retarded.
Anonymous No.2113569
ZK is on Steam there's no way it has a login prompt
Anonymous No.2113665
>>2113538
technically nothing is stopping you but the only allowed widgets are those from the Discord (of course) and autoskirmish got removed
Anonymous No.2113723 >>2113922
>>2113546
>completeley miss the point of the original post
>make retarded reply
>keep doubling down on your retardation
Ok, I *might* be retarded, but you certainly are.
Anonymous No.2113922 >>2118081 >>2118620
>>2113723
I understand full well the point of the original post. It's a retarded one. It's a primarily online game.
Anonymous No.2114441 >>2114446 >>2114469 >>2114498 >>2115279 >>2118617
>>2112914
>To keep it short, in Zero-K 'idle' units will attempt to evade incoming weapons fire and skirt in out of range of a static emplacements weapon range when attacking. In BAR they'll just stand there and take a shot to the face.
>What's really sad if the AI can and will do this at +1000apm but it's not enabled for players despite claiming the game is designed to be played at low apms.

>A game
>But plays itself
Anonymous No.2114446 >>2115242
>>2114441
>>A game
>>But plays itself
Yeah, because in real life soldiers will diligently hold their assigned position and never run for cover when fired upon unless explicitly ordered to.
Anonymous No.2114469
>>2114441
>t. never played 1v1 or even frontlines
Anonymous No.2114498
>>2114441
lol, you've never played zero-k if you hold this opinion
the autobehavior for zero-k units is extremely simple, like raiders on a move stance above hold position automatically backing off if a riot approaches, or artillery units on fight move running away from any enemy approaching them
they do not and cannot beat an actual human microing units, infact you can exploit the automatic behavior of a player who isn't paying attention to your own benefit.
there are even some units in the game where i would recommend just straight up turning off the extra behaviors and setting their movestate to hold position, because they will fuck you over when they choose to do something of their own volition.
Anonymous No.2115242
>>2114446
>Yeah, because in real life soldiers will diligently hold their assigne
Holy shit lmao shut the fuck up and cope
Anonymous No.2115279
>>2114441
the point of units being autonomous to a minor degree is that it's cool, and it lets the player do more, because they have more time by not having to babysit every little step their units should take
Anonymous No.2117315
>>2112469
There are some subtler differences, too. Like in BAR almost every unit is half-blind and can shoot much further than it can see, whereas in Zero-K it's the opposite for every direct fire unit, so you're less reliant on radar.
Anonymous No.2118081 >>2118268
>>2113922
>I understand full well the point of the original post.
No, very clearly you did NOT, at all.
Now please, explain to me why you think that there aren't any RTS games that let you play without making a fucking account, or why I would need to make a fucking account in the first place or why I would need retarded news I don't care about to be on display when I load up my game.
Anonymous No.2118268 >>2118506 >>2118620
>>2118081
To play online, retard. You can make your own fork and remove the news tab.
Anonymous No.2118506 >>2118549
>>2118268
You still haven't answered my question.
Anonymous No.2118549
>>2118506
Why should I answer yours if you're not going to answer mine?
Anonymous No.2118617
>>2114441
FAF competitive scene has decisively proven that micro fatigue is the defining bottleneck of most even team games. How many serious play off tournament games were decided by literal tedium endurance?

What this means is that without new solutions TA-like RTS games have objectively too much tedious shit that is too important to ignore.
Anonymous No.2118620 >>2118650
>>2113546
>>2113922
>>2118268
I think he's trying to say that account login should not be necessary for online play. Which is a valid point.
Anonymous No.2118650
>>2118620
>Login should not be necessary for online play. Which is a valid point.
The problem is abuse. Be cheaters, trolls or criminal activities. Requiring log-ins is a simple and effective way to limit damage potential. That's not discounting other ways to limit damage, such as anti-cheat systems, chat filtering/lock-out which should be used concurrently, people will always be looking for a way to troll the other guy.

One of the issues now is games now use log-ins as a marketing-metric to artificially make the game seem more popular than it is, player are often transient but their log-ins are retained. So you have shit like BAR celebrating 50,000 members when the actual player base is 1/10th of this.

Personally I think registration/log-in should only be necessary for ranked/competitive matches.