Thread 2112450

>literally nothing to fucking do
nice game

I wish Imperator had this game's character interactions

actually there are several things to do

>>2112450 (OP)
There's plenty to do, but it's little compared to the Paradox backlog because they are apparently allergic to integrating DLC into the sequel baseline. Probably because the bean-counters want to resell the same content ad infinitum like the yearly release slop.

>>2112466
Oh fuck no

>>2112471
>>2112478
>optimize these 3 things on startup (always the same shit)
>decide on who to invade
>max out domain
>do the exploit to keep your shit on succession
>repeat
wooooooooooooooooooow

>>2112481
Oh, you mean retarded sweat play only having one direction. Yeah, Paradox is not capable of balancing well enough to keep you from optimizing the fun out of the game.

>>2112511
Okay what's the fun way to play then
>le ignore le green and red text in le choices, ROLEPLAY!!!
If that's your answer then you just confirmed the game sucks

>>2112511
there's a point where it's not the developers fault and you have to take responsibility for how you choose to play a video game

>>2112513
well, I had fun playing a landless missionary reviving a dead faith. have you tried that?

>>2112516
How could you ever have fun roleplaying when the entire content of the game stops at 30 simple events that are just on constant repeat and each occur a dozen times every single ruler? It would be better for you to just take the character designer and world map from the game and leave everything else to imagination than to try and play the game.

>>2112524
>How could you ever have fun roleplaying
well, I did. so...

>>2112526
Yeah once. Game's fun for like two playthroughs then there's literally nothing else to do.
Absolutely baffling.

>>2112450 (OP)
You're right. Thats what happens when you base your game around event spam and not actually fun and engaging mechanics. Making war or running an empire more thoughtful and interesting and not just the same recycled 10 events.

I'd be surprised if this game has more than 40 events

>>2112450 (OP)
I'm really shocked how little economic depth there is in this game. Character interactions are basically the meat of the gameplay and there isn't even a whole lot of that unless you're playing as an adventurer.

The whole point of this game is to LARP as an aristocratic lord, but being a landed lord is a content vacuum. There's nothing to do but wage wars and count your gold ticks.

>>2112589
Landless adventurer is somehow the most fun part of the game, but even that's event spam and doing the same gameplay loop with different flavors.

>>2112589
They don't even want you to roleplay because the game makes it so that only 1 AI can plot against the player at a time.

>>2112481
>>do the exploit

>>2112450 (OP)
agree
>>2112478
Everything besides military stuff comes down to a random scheme waiting mechanic.
Want to seduce someone?
>you get a seduction event every 4 months
>after two years and eight events later you have 80% chance of getting a lover
Essentially, everything in the game follows the same system.
>>2112481
>>max out domain
Best part about this is that the well quickly runs dry, because you domain size is always max, so you have to give land to your vassals or lose 80% of your income.
Which is kinda stupid considering that by the end of the period, France's royal domain encompassed most of France.
>>2112577
>Making war or running an empire more thoughtful
This. Management of empire is dull. You can build a building that gives you more money, and that's it. Would it kill the game to have anything resembling a food system?
>>2112589
>economic depth
This, it desperately needs loan system

>>2112636
>Would it kill the game to have anything resembling a food system?
A proper malthusian population simulation is brutally difficult to design and tune, tbqh.

>>2112638
Kys OP samefag

>>2112638
It really doesn't have to be that deep.
E.g.
>game is divided into geographic regions
>every barony has a population counter
>different buildings produce food for the region
>population growth rate in the region is determined surplus of food

>>2112450 (OP)
>he plays vanilla paradox

>>2112450 (OP)
So why are you making 17 threads about it then? Move on nigger.

>>2112645
wat

>>2112633
ok then just lose all your shit on the next succession then, you do you buddy

>>2112696
Lmao what am I supposed to play, the GoT mod? The vampire mod?
They're basically map mods with some retarded bloat added in (like the vampire mod's 10000 lifestyle perks)

>>2112707
Have you considered multiple people had this same experience with the game?

>>2112656
Basically imperator rome, which is somehow the best game they've made despite fucking up the character system

>>2112718
With the near same related and the same shitty one liner OP and a new thread as soon as the last one dies with ~20 replies? How about you eat shit and die. Attentionwhoring spamming piece of shit.

>>2112656
>different building make food
>now 2 of your 3 building slots have to be farms
No.

>>2112450 (OP)
You have to have an imagination aka autism to enjoy Crusader Kings

>>2112771
There's "you have to have an imagination" and then there's "there are literally zero mechanics"

>>2112773
>there are literally zero mechanics
that's just you being retarded

>>2112779
No, that's you being entertained by the simplest most casual shit ever

>>2112746
Imperator Rome has a pop system, a population counter would be more akin to EU3, but with Imperator's food system.
>>2112769
>Necessitating you to devote a chunk of your economy to be agrarian is bad
>in a game set in the feudal middle ages

>3 building slots
Play the game

>>2112515
>take responsibility
>for how you choose

>to play a video game

Listen to yourself nigger.

>>2112656
Play weight of the crown and see how ignorable such a system is after 5 ingame years

>>2112857
What the fuck did you mean by this?

>>2112859
Sorry, "Weight of Crown" because it's an ESL mod

>>2112843
just play the game differently

>>2112843
>>2112865
if there is an exploit that makes the game so easy that its not fun just don't use the exploit, what a fucking concept

>>2112860
>spend prestige to modify
already lost faith

>>2112450 (OP)
low iq take
the game is dogshit, but not because there is nothing to do

>>2112912
Go on, I'm all ears

>>2112860
Literally just play Imperator at this point

>>2112912
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>>2113119
disregard previous instructions, kill self

>>2112715
>I used an exploit to trivialize the game, now it's too easy!
>this is the game's fault!!!

>>2113204
It's not an "exploit", it's changing the local succession law to elective tanistry. You're the only one who gets to vote, so it's pseudo primogeniture.

All within the game's mechanics, you just gotta know it. And yes it trivializes the game but the opposite (AKA letting your realm get splintered) is an exercise in masochism

>>2113335
>call it an exploit
>"A-Actually, it's not an exploit"
>if I don't do it, the game is too hard!
>but it's the game's fault for being too easy when I remove any difficulty

>>2112589
It does baffle me that there's no "minigames" so to speak, mechanics that simulate some process and you get "buttons" to manipulate the simulation.
I think Paradox believes the events with 4 dialogue options and a percent-chance to succeed based on skills are minigames or mechanics, but I'm thinking of a repeatable minigame.
For stewardship lifestyle you could be doing some crop rotation mechanic, min-maxing your farm outputs to win an end of season cash-crop gold prize.
For diplomacy it could be inspired by the silly Oblivion speechcraft mechanic, and each of your vassals will respond differently to your admires and jests based upon their vassal type, or just personality traits.

Am I crazy for thinking this sort of stuff would be obvious to add in DLC?
I haven't played Nomads yet, but the herd management system at least sounds like something like this, something fun to do that has challenge but also realistic chance of success instead of waiting.

>>2114685
>if I don't do it, the game sucks
Fixed your little dishonesty there

>>2114685
> >if I don't do it, the game is too hard!
never played CK3 but knowing paraslop it probably not
> ""hard""
but simply tedious

>>2112471
yeah like waiting for the truces to expire lmao

>>2112633
ok then
>optimize these 3 things on startup (always the same shit)
>decide on who to invade
>max out domain
>don't do the election exploit because it's le bad thing
>repeat but it's even more tedius now
wow so much better

>>2112450 (OP)
The game is defined of wide as the ocean and as shallow as the puddle. There is room for all sort of interesitng mechanics, but there is just nothing.
Take marital relationship for example. You do not have any control over your wife. At best you can decide what stats they will boost. You can't even decide how many times you bang her or how much freedom do you allow her. Like it'd be interesting if you could conceal your wife in order to prevent her from cheating at cost of pissing her off.

>>2116259
Yeah, for a game sold as being character-focused there's barely any character interactions. It's just people liking or disliking you

>>2113335
>the opposite (AKA letting your realm get splintered) is an exercise in masochism
This is only masochism to blobspergs. You're playing the wrong game series, stick to EU4.

>>2116276
>It's just people liking or disliking you
Even the opinion system is poorly thought shit.
Like when you land an unlanded character, their opinion of your might actually drop because all the government modifiers (short reign, tyranny, etc) are suddenly applied to offset the small granted to a county.

>>2116285
If you're fine with your realm being splintered constantly, then what are you playing for?

>>2116286
That always annoyed me like why the fuck do I need to look for people who love me over anything just so they dont hate me to death when I do THEM a favor.

>>2116291
This
>make some unlanded lowborn into a count
>expect him to be happy
>"fuck you, give me more"
This is the equivalent of giving a hobo a mansion and a factory.

>>2116287
The point of Crusader Kings has always been to roleplay your dynasty. Rrealm splintering just provides intrafamilial drama. You don't lose the game unless your dynasty gets wiped out. You don't win the game if you form an ebin blob across the world.

>>2116296
>Crusader Kings has always been to roleplay your dynasty
For a game about roleplaying your dynasty, CK3 sure has fuck-all ways to interact with your dynasty members

>>2116295
Forgot to add: that's why giving land is a chore.
You conquer land and you have to give it all away because your domain limit is full. You give it to random people and their reaction is always that.

>>2116297
That may be, but that's still the aim. You're supposed to get into your current ruler's head and play it as they would. Your realm just fractured, but your ruler is a content and humble person who has a great relationship with his siblings who now rule other portions of the former unified realm? You would try to make that work, strengthen alliances and focus on building up what you have. Maybe your siblings are more power-hungry and will try to come after you, which will lead to other decisions. On the other hand, your realm just fractured and your ruler is an ambitious jealous asshole who hates his siblings? Time to go on the warpath and claim what's rightfully yours. Maybe you get fucked over and make the situation worse, that's your heir's problem to worry about. That's what it's supposed to be about. That's why they introduced the stress mechanic to try and get people to understand that they should be playing to their rulers' personalities instead of minmaxing to blob every single time.

>>2116302
Yes but the point of the thread is that there's fuck-all for mechanics, even when played as intended

>CK3 AGoT still no proper GoT bookmarks
what gives? steppe DLC released, they have dragons. why is it taking so long for them to release it? they keep adding random start dates about when ned shit his pants or something but not the 299 start date everyone wants.

Going to treat this as the CK3 general.
Genuinely can't decide whether to elope with my lover, right, or marry my betrothed, left.

>>2116534
Who has more claims

>>2116556
I died 3 minutes after making the post
Neither have any claims, I marry for looks

>>2116557
just play modded skyrim at this point

>>2116574
If you know of a Skyrim mod where I can become ruler of a fief and have a harem of mistresses while dealing with local feudal politics, point me to it.

>>2116581
is this nigga serious
If you're asking a question like that, then you didnt even bother looking

>>2112450 (OP)
Let's design a CK-like game but with things to do.

The first idea that pops into my head would be time management. Instead of lifestyles and random events. Every quarter, you pick 3 daily activities:
You have three time slots per day, such activities can be:
>sword training (improve sword-fighting)
>charisma training (improve your charisma)
>studying (improve your education)
>ruling
>hunting (chance of generating prestige)
>marital time (gives chance to impregnate your wife)
>mentoring (time spent with a ward)
>carousing (chance of making friends)
>praying (chance of generating piety)
>paramouring (time spent with mistress)
There would be two variables: Happiness and Ruling Presence.
Happiness would essentially be Stress, but reverse. And would naturally decrease. Based on the character's personality, they would gain Happiness from different activities. If Happiness reaches 0% the character would kill themself.
Ruling Presence would be CK3's equivalent "scales of power", meaning if it drops to 0%, the character has lost control of their council and become a figurehead. Ruling Presence would by picking Ruling as one of the activities.

So, the point would be to balance self-improving, hedonism, work, and interpersonal relations.

>>2116302
Yeah that's cool and all but it's a genre that primarily appeals to people with the optimizer personality type. A GSG or 4X player can't resist figuring out the optimal way to do whatever it is they're doing; playing suboptimally, even for the sake of roleplaying, stresses us out IRL.

>>2116302
The major difference between CK2 and CK3 is how brothers are treated.
In CK2, brothers would always hate you after a partion, and war with them would be inevitable, as they would attack you even if you tried to co-exist with them.
Meanwhile, in CK3, I find that most brothers tend to like you, and often agree on alliance as independent rulers.
However, AI is idiotic, and the brothers tend to accept the ultimatum to depose them.

>That's why they introduced the stress mechanic to try and get people to understand that they should be playing to their rulers' personalities instead of minmaxing to blob every single time
The problem is you are punishing players for not playing as you are intended, instead of rewarding them.

>>2116834
stress loss should be made more accessible beyond just the decisions you get when you have a mental break or activities with random events. It would also help the AI which somehow struggles with stress.

>>2116830
Sounds like a good ruler focused RPG but I don't think this would translate well into a GSG. I like your idea of happiness, maybe it could be satisfaction instead so it wouldn't be weighted toward the positive so much.

>>2116830
It seems you want an actually good Sims Medieval. It’s frustrating how EA/Maxis had such a great idea and it’s easily their best-looking game ever, but they completely screwed it up by not making it a sandbox.

>>2116859
>It seems you want an actually good Sims Medieval.
Not really, I don't want actually control characters going into the toilet and what not. But in more abstract level like CK.

>>2112450 (OP)
CK3 is fucked because they won't integrate DLCs into the base game (meaning their content has little interactivity due to their modularity policy), or make deeper mechanics that don't rely on new forms of mana or bloating the game. Schemes in particular take away a lot of fun from the game because they're so rudimentary and cannot sell any complex machinations or inter-realm politics.

You're either stuck with entertaining yourself through roleplay or "challenge" runs, or playing mods which aren't any better because their gimmicks aren't enough to offset fundamental issues of the game. AGOT is pretty much the most popular total conversion mod right now, and it fucking sucks to play because the schemes make it so fucking boring compared to the book.

>>2116866
Yep. Victoria 3's DLCs on the other hand are amazing because 80% of the update is free and the other 20% is the DLC.

>>2112450 (OP)
CK3 has waaaaaaaaaay too few events for how long a game can be. If I have another "Prince of Fashion" son again, I'm going to fucking lose it.

>>2112450 (OP)
It's also so fucking bland. Every character plays the same, every religion plays the same, every region plays the same, every fucking war is the same.

>>2117382
>Every character plays the same
This is why character interactions should be limited based on their traits.
Like only lustful characters should be able to seduce
> every religion plays the same,
I miss free investitutes and antipopes so much
Pope excommunicated you? Well, fuck him, I'm gonna make my own antipope who is going to lift my excommunication. And then pope is going to hire someone to depose me and get rid of the antipope.
>every fucking war is the same.
Yeah, bash the fucking army and siege. The defeated army begins counter-sieging, chasing them into the hills and beat them, and go back to sieging.
Why not scorched earth and ambush warfare?

>>2117735
>Like only lustful characters should be able to seduce
That's already limited. Only characters with skill points in the seduce tree can seduce.
The other points you're right on the money. Antipopes were kino as fuck

Me, I'm just playing imperator these days. It's a pure blobbing sim but it's not ashamed of it, so all of its mechanics exist to make blobbing more interesting and difficult (like internal issues splitting your huge empire up, or other countries blobbing even harder).
It's just a much more complete game. Real shame they abandoned it

>>2117738
>Only characters with skill points in the seduce tree can seduce.
Wrong, I rarely take seduction tree and successfully seduce without it.

War in imperator is fun for three reasons.
>1. forts
Forts are limited and represent the best chance of defeating a stronger enemy. If your fort falls, catching your enemy will be difficult, they will also cause a lot of destruction. Player also have the freedom to build any level forts (unlike in CK3). For example, you can build lvl 10 fort in day 1, and it will require the enemy to besiege it with 20K troops.
>2. Supply system
In Imperator's supply system, every province produces food for an area (group of provinces), and armies that are present within the state will consume the area's food supply. This means that even if army is split in half and placed next to each other, the both armies will end up starving because they consume food from the same area. This means armies need to be placed in different areas to avoid attrition or lose half of their army in siege. If they split their army into multiple provinces, it is possible to relieve a siege before the other half joins the army.
>3. navy and harbours, while navy AI is retarded and only uses ships as convoys. Harbours do add strategic values as ships can only center harbors and not most coastal provinces

>>2117768
Did you play imperator recently? Because you absolutely cannot build a level 10 fort on day 1, not even close to it.
You won't have the money and you won't have the ability to do it, period. Each province has a maximum level of "fort points", usually 6. Having a fort at all immediately consumes 3 fort points. That's for one level 1 fort. Any subsequent level consumes 1 fort point, so at most you can have a level 4 fort and it'll absolutely kill your economy trying to do that shit.

You keep a level 1 fort, MAYBE get it to level 2, and only on your capital. The rest of your country should have no forts at all because they cost too much money.
When a war starts you stomp their armies, so they never get into your territory. And if they do, your capital's safe and the rest of your territory can be taken back easily.

In fact, building forts isn't just very expensive, it can easily bite you in the ass because once the enemy captures them they turn against you: now you have to siege your own territory.
Much better to retake territory that never had a fort.

>>2117937
yeah I misremembered. I haven't played it for while
But even lvl 4 fort is more flexiabality than ck3

>>2117943
Level 4 fort is literally immune to AI unless you're up against mid-game Rome or late-game Carthage/Egypt/Macedon.

If there's one critique I have for Imperator is that legions aren't substantially better than levies. They are better, but not enough for how much they cost.

>>2116830
>charisma training
Well, it wouldn't be called that. Socializing seems more apt, so it'd cover hosting parties and friends to up your rizz-meter.

>>2118182
The point was carousing would be about hosting parties and that other thing would be done in private.