Thread 2114626

Ira Won the Waifu Vote Edition

>M&B Wiki
https://antifandom.com/mountandblade/wiki/Mount_&_Blade_Wiki

> BANNERLORD
>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/tAvcAbpT
>Custom Banner Maker
https://bannerlord.party/banner/
>Banner Code Sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MEM-0Fz0yetJ8cZgLrPpHuDU6dO33bhsFiHsiWwiCDM
>Asset Extractor
https://github.com/szszss/TpacTool
>Create Custom Companions
https://butterlord.com/wanderers

> WARBAND
>Warband Pastebin
https://rentry.org/x7u7t
>Noob Guide (READ This) https://imgur.com/a/FMAqV
>Anon's Mods and Upstab Guide: https://pastebin.com/agwZu9Df

>Thread(looted): >>2076392

>>2114626 (OP)
first for poo2

mountain blade but with wrestling mechanics

>>2114679
>Less talking, more wrestling!
>That's a nice belt you have on your torso!

>>2114626 (OP)
>Ira Won the Waifu Vote
What vote and why didn't the obvious winner (Rhagaea) win?

>>2114626 (OP)
Rhodocks? More like Bigcocks

>>2114626 (OP)
I know that you can't execute lords in native Warband, but can you execute them in Fire & Sword? Bannerlord has spoiled me by letting me become a Lord Slayer and I'm wondering if I can do the same in Fire & Sword.

>>2114831
No. It was only a janky feature in some of the mods.

>>2114718
Kek

>>2114967
Sad!
I've tried playing Gekokujo (Daimyo New Troops version) for the first time and I've had a blast with it so far. Should keep me happy until War Sails comes out.

sweaty footjobs

if you lowered the age of marriage, do increase pregnancy duration. these warring fanatics feed and seed non stop.

>>2115763
What?

>>2115763
>Lowered age of marriage and increase pregnancy duration
Not a terrible idea but making a mod where ~14 year olds can get pregnant might get some puritanical government's attention. Also, I haven't looked into that part of the code spaghetti but it wouldn't surprise me if TW has the pregnancy age hardcoded.

>>2116388
They seemed to have not cared much because it's not very hard to do. Just calling the regular functions with the expected values has them get through pregnancy with no issues.

>>2116388
What godawful model made those hands? I thought image gen was getting better?

is this the sneaking feature?
https://youtube.com/shorts/LdMUWvL72QQ

>>2117302
I think they talked about adding one.

>>2116801
I dunno dude I just googled "noble lady pregnant" because I can't be arsed to get one of the shitty AI image generators to work.
>>2116436
Damn dude, maybe I should check into it.

>the application faced a problem
First time try modding Bannerlord here, what did i do wrong lad

>>2118310
Modding, as in making your own mod?

>>2118310
Look up bannerlord DLL unblocking or whatever. I think that's usually the cause of that one.

any good choke points for pen cannoc seige defense? It's a 7-1 ratio against vlandia who just declared war. 400ish useless militia (didnt account for in the ratio) with my mid-high tier troops at 350ish

So far I think I gotten them down to the last couple of waves, so close yet so far away

>>2116436
As based as this is, how do I make them look like teenagers at 12 instead of children?

>>2118504
Nvm. Go to the left to where the docks is located. position archers and infantry shieldwall bait making sure the enemies rear ends/side are exposed for your archers and watch them get picked off like flies.

>>2118686
I don't really know, I just quickly did that without a lot of finesse to see if it was possible.

Anyone under 21 does look fucking ghastly in this game though. Even 18 years olds just look off to me, like their heads were not designed for their bodies.

Anyone have updated mod links from warband pastebin? Some links are dead

>No Cao Cao poster
It's over...

>>2119113
Cow Cow

Guys wtf is Dickplomazon and where can i get it? Is it some submod for Dickplomation?

>>2119322
It's a trans-friendly version of Dickplomacy, you'd have to ask your discord friends where to get it.

>>2119326
man i dont have trans friends in ds and pastebin link is dead

Someone pls send new link to Dickplomazon. I've found it in old archived thread from 2023. It's crazy that it wasnt posted on mod sites

>>2119332
And it wouldbe perfect if some good samaritian sent more mods from dead links listed in pastebin. For archiving reasons of course

Just talked to my wife and she divorced me on the spot.
Dramalord is pretty buggy it seems.

>>2119367
Doubling

>>2119575
she just managed to see a glimpse of your real life face through your webcam and gained awareness.

>>2119322
Some anon from this thread made it. I downloaded it from there back when it was on /vg/. It was incomplete. Basically dickplomacy except most lords are athletic women. Theres also a bunch of other features. Very buggy and the textures kept glitching,

>>2119575
You gave her the 'ick

>>2119575
It also lacks modularity, no option to disable divorces, in game settings. I don't use it.

>>2119751
Please, send itbro. Wanna download it for my mini-archive, not for playing. And also wanna check art from loading screens, it's pretty good.

>>2119783
Please send it bro*

>>2119322
Shitty trannymod of a shitty meme mod based off a shitty version of diplomacy

>>2119751
I have a zip file for it, but ive never really sent files to people from 4chan. What website do I use? And are you sure you wont be able to read my personal info (like user name) like you can with a word doc? I sent a word document to an internet friend when i was a teenager and he immediately went "ah so your name is [my full legal name]" because checking properties on the file reveals the user of the last person who modified the doc.

Yes I am retarded

>>2119808
Meant to reply to this guy: >>2119783

>>2119808
catbox.moe doesn't require a sign up

>>2119808
U can use mega or some anonymous services, idk, never used anything except for google disk for this.
And yes, people can read your username by reading properties of word docs (and maybe som other types of docs) if u didnt delete the metadata. I dont know if it possible with zip archives though. And i dont think you should be nervous about this, because u didnt edited this archive.
Iknow all these becauz i AM privacy schizo myself. I also afraid as fuck that someone could find out my Romanian surname somehow,so i understand u bro. But my urge to collect all files possible is stronger than schizophrenia. So please help me, and i will send you wallet full of denars in your dream

>>2119827
Btw u can check if your personal data mentioned in properties of any file by yourself. Just rightmousebutton it, click properties and then surf through the tabs. I am sure that would be enough

>>2119808
>[my full legal name]
uuuuh
you guys actually put your name on your PCs instead of just naming it admin or even aaaaaa?

>>2119914
my computer doesn't unlock unless i enter my full legal name, address, 2 credit card numbers and upload a dick pic

>mods to remove female lords in the name of 'realism'
cucked culture war bullshit

>mods to rape and mindbreak female lord captives for my battle harem
Based (me)

>>2119811
Yep it's true. Catbox is nice

>>2119947
What mod?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XwSOVGtIPpg?feature=share

god if they're just trying to pack all this assassins creed shit into the game, i'm gonna be slightly mad because you just know there won't be enough quests or missions to make it worth it

>>2119922
Send mod please, guys are waiting.

War Sails when?

>>2120021
>>2120106
>>2119783
>>2119322

Since >>2119808 has gone AWOL
Heres my personal version of "Dickplomazon", its still a bit buggy but I made some changes

https://mega.nz/file/CMRX1aSZ#QdsRct8lejt0oQ8I7o6ZvS8fHvFMo5H6I12e0WwXUKk

Changes are:
- I made most lords Good/Upstanding, So I could eventually collect all the Amazon nobles and still have a decent kingdom
- Decreased book reading time
- "Update Loot script" - I have no idea what I did here
- Other script updates, again, no idea, this was ages ago and my git comments don't say much ;_;
- Increased XP multipliers and x3 stats (both skill points + attributes on level up). You can change this back via the module.ini
- New Female skins
- Hiring Refugees from the mercenaries page now correctly gives refugee women (for options other then 1)
- All noble ladies can now join your party, regardless of personality
- I use Tier 1 custom troops, so I changed all the faces to be young looking (normally they age to grannys as they level up)

Damn, checking my save for this and I actually conquered the entirety of Calradia, had basically every Amazon noble and even had a ton of wives, some of which I landed so I could have even more female nobles.

>>2120140
Thank you man! It's amazing. You will be remembered
Do you have anything else from pastebin?

>>2119947
>>2120028
I second this. I'm annoyed that the only mods that let you recruit female lords are standard polygamy mods.

>>2120140
It's cool and everything, but is there a way to get original version? Wanna touch the classic itself
/other anon/

>>2120218
What mods are you talking about? Didn't hear about any except dickplomation and SOTT trilogy

>>2120248
Ah, well, why not,
Through the power of Git (source control), this is a version which is identical to the original Dickplomazon, without any of the changes above.
Enjoy

https://mega.nz/file/CNBS1SyQ#_xDwc55Ex_3HdjPoitK0iaKGy-Hy6mQqrWjnClPQu9M

I want to play this but I couldnt get into warband and heard that Bannerlord is kinda of a downgrade. Is it true? Can I mod it to fix the issues? Can I make a harem ?

>>2120296
Anyone calling it a downgrade is on nostalgia goggles, it's a straight up upgrade when it comes to battles and a sidegrade on the campaign map.
If you like the battles you will like the game, if you don't like the battles you won't like the game.
As for making a harem, there's probably a mod or three for that.

>>2120288
Thank you again!!! Now my mission is almost completed.
Now, do you have anything else from pastebin?

>>2120302
But what about lords forgetting what have you done with them previously? Captured them/let them go for example

>>2120376
Thats it I'm afraid,
You can find most of the other ones from other places though, especially big ones like Persino and Prophecy of Pendor.

>>2120385
I know, i'm not saving popular and big mods which arent going to be lost. Im interested in saving less big mods. For example, SOTT trilogy, but i already have it. What about some other 4chan-exclusive patches and minimods deleted from pastebin? If you dont have them then sorry for bothering

I just finished up the last of my achievements for Warband and have moved onto Bannerlord. I know its kind of a meme to go
>"Bannerlord bad, Warband good!"
but you fuckers weren't kidding when you said the armor was ugly and the game was lacking features. I installed about 15 mods for Bannerlord just to fix small issues like all the lords of a clan having their relation tied together like some sort of hive mind, to take away the workshop limit and make it so they don't disappear when they are captured by an enemy.
I....I feel like a modded Warband is more feature complete at this point, and can even to comparable battle sizes as Bannerlord with WSE2. I keep throwing on mods for Bannerlord and something constantly feels like its missing or just sub par in quality. Its driving me nuts.

People keep saying relation is tied to clans, but the joke's on them because the game is so feature lacking that relation itself does practically nothing anyway.

>>2120552
>relation itself does practically nothing anyway.
I noticed that actually. I was pretty far along into my WB playthrough but all the lords who liked me would protect my fiefs while I was away stomping the shit out of the enemies army and vote for me when it was time to get a fief. Now they don't really do any of that anymore and their personalities don't do anything. They do have dialog lines that are the exact same from Warband noting if they are martial, good natured, ect. but it doesn't actually do anything either.
Its kind of disappointing.

>>2114730
rhodoks fans can neither spell nor stop thinking about penis

>>2120600
Rhodoks are the best kingdom. Sorry your horses can't climb stone walls, buttertits

>>2120542
>Its driving me nuts.

>>2120652
>>2120652
>Sorry your horses can't climb stone walls, buttertits
you will see

>>2120296
For me it was an upgrade, although, I don't play MP, so I am not sure about that side of the game, for example.
>>2120542
>but you fuckers weren't kidding when you said the armor was ugly and the game was lacking features.
How the fuck can you can Bannerlord armor ugly. It has decent looking history inspired armors, while Warband looks bad.
>lacking features
About the same as Warband, and actually has smoother combat controls.

>>2120378
You speak as though it was anything other than a relations modifier whenever you talk to them next time

>>2120296
bannerlord is missing the little roleplaying features from warband.
can't be modded in because there are no mods that do those things. idk if it's technically impossible or modders just won't bother because it would take too much, it's the Turks' job or what exactly.
for those who haven't play warband, they'll find bannerlord fun for around a couple of hundred of hours before the issues i'm about to list start vaguely nagging at them.
warband has:
>renown decay
>kingdom court and minister
>all lords competing for the new fief instead of 3 at a time
>ability to convince lords to support (you) or someone else for fiefs
>individualized relations with lords
>suggestion to lords to attack a party or start a siege
>deserters
>manhunters
>ability to fight your way out of towns after failure to sneak in
>ability to interact with stuff in towns after sneaking in like trading or entering the arena
>denounce or support a lord
>actual courtship instead of RNG
>dueling lords
>having lords make up
>economy based on taxes instead of battle loot so you don't have to battle all the time to stay afloat
>raiding villages gives a huge amount of denars
>right to rule instead of being magically gated by clan level
>earning renown increases your party size incrementally instead of big magical jumps at clan level
>notifications when enemies walk by your fiefs (and same kingdom ones?) and their approximate size instead of warring blindly
>working armor so the difference between fighting and having top tiers and low tiers is pretty big
they're increasing tariffs in the next patch. it's a step in the right direction imo but it would affect the balance of the game so i'm hoping they rebalance it and increase taxes as well in a future patch.

>>2120751
>How the fuck can you can Bannerlord armor ugly
Because it looks like from some Skyrim mod? Even in cases where the concept itself is okay (as opposed to e.g. Battania that's shit even at the basic level), the actual modelling work is absolutely subpar. If you can look at this and think it looks decent without any shred of irony, you might be too far gone.

I think making those list of missing features as if adding them will actually make Bannerlord any better is missing the point — which is, to say, that Bannerlord is simply a poorly designed game that can only be salvaged by being reworked from the ground up which'll never hapen.

>>2120850
Nice copypasta, fag

>>2120873
>which is, to say, that Bannerlord is simply a poorly designed game that can only be salvaged by being reworked from the ground up
elaborate in extreme detail. dismissing things as badly designed that needs rework can in itself be dismissed as some retard spouting bullshit.
gifting wasn't a mod.
>A lady can also improve your relationship with a lord of that faction, at the price of one thousand denars per relationship point.
https://mountandblade.fandom.com/wiki/Ladies
the only things that require lots of rework are the economy and diplomacy.
>>2120922
>copypasta = wrong
try proving it wrong, retard.

>>2120927
>try proving my feelings and outrage wrong
I'm past that point

>>2120930
>feelings and outrage
the listed stuff are specific points. you can stop projecting at any time.

>>2120937
Specific points that you feel are worse and/or are outraged that they changed from Warband.
I'm not even going to give you the satisfaction of an argument because I know you will take the shit everyone hated or nobody gave an actual shit about in Warband and try to frame it as "sovl".

>>2120940
>dismisses all the removed features from the list

>>2120945
Yes, I'm dismissing all the shit I didn't care about in Warband

>>2120947
>anon only played custom battles in warband

>>2120950
My army needs 5 heads of cattle, anon, get to it, chop chop.

>>2120850
Here's what I know could be easily implemented.

>renown decay

15 minute job, this is just adding some subtraction to the daily hero update function. Maybe longer if you want some complicated model of how exactly the formula should work.

>earning renown increases your party size incrementally instead of big magical jumps at clan level

This should be like half an hour max of creating your own DefaultPartySizeLimitModel.

>notifications when enemies walk by your fiefs (and same kingdom ones?) and their approximate size instead of warring blindly

Should be easier than it sounds. In the settlement update function (forget exactly which one it is because I normally don't mod settlements) just do a distance check to whatever parties are nearby and if an enemy one is under a threshold range tell the player. Will take a bit longer to create some extra systems like so they don't get spammed by the same message every 2 seconds.

A lot of that other stuff gets into deep UI or mechanics modding, requiring a whole lot of stuff to support it so I wouldn't hold my breath on those. Like ministers and courts require the actual mechanics to go along with them which I don't think are there.

>>2120751
>How the fuck can you can Bannerlord armor ugly
The textures don't even mesh together, warband used very similar or even the same mail texture on its armors which allowed a lot of different armors to mix well together. In Bannerlord only certain pieces really work together otherwise you look like a clown

>>2120751
Look at this shit anon, how the fuck is that not ugly? The texture work and models are genuinely worse than some of the open source mods Warband had. In terms of actual design, a good portion of whats in the game is ill fitted, ugly and some of it is just pure a-historical, like Battanian armors.
>About the same as Warband,
You really only need submod to make Warband feature complete, and a single bugfix to fix the cow herding quest which you can do by opening an INI file and you are set.
Bannerlord requires 3 mods to even get started modding, 2-3 to restore functionality to workshops, another one to separate relations, Diplomacy to bring back some semblance of strategy (although its worse than Warband's variation), RTS camera + dependencies to add in Warband's backspace functionality for troop placement, and then a whole slew of mods just to make the vanilla factions look decent.

>>2121014
Compare mail mittens in warband to Bannerlord
In warband they're actual mittens, in Bannerlord they're a shared model just retextured which is why they look so stupidly long
There's three separate mail textures in that image so none of it looks like it works together

>>2121014
>a-historical, like Battanian armors.
Do tell me more about what historical Battanian armor looked like

Warband MP, I haven't played for years and recently got back into it and I'm getting smoked. How do you aim with a lance while mounted? I get wrecked constantly
Yes, I know git gud, looking for specific advice

>>2121045
The Battanians are modeled after insular and earlier continental Celtic peoples. Most of their earlier armors from release are straight up fantastical bullshit while the later armor pieces added by updates are straight from the iron/bronze age. Pic rel.
The armors for Warband were (mostly) historical, even if they were a little out of place time wise and were all consistent quality. You could mix and match pieces seamlessly to create a cohesive armor set from different cultures while Bannerlord struggles to have a cohesive mail texture even within the same factions.

>>2121068
>modeled after
Exactly and you're a fucking retard if you think it can be ahistorical to have a fantasy faction use armors like that

>>2121071
>you're a fucking retard
Kill yourself, unironically. 90% of the shit you see in Warband was ripped right from museums and history books. It lead to a solid and cohesive identity for each faction, with all of them looking pretty fucking good.
Bannerlord on the other hand looks like dogshit. The models are fucked, none of them are even close to being right for the armor they are trying to represent and the texture quality looks muddy at best. Look at this fucking garbage dude.

>>2121085
>doesn't actually address the point
>goes for the "it looks bad tho" approach instead
Do not kill yourself, I know your life is terrible considering your mental retardation so please keep suffering.

>>2121093
There is basically no reason to address your shitty "gacha" point. The overall designs and quality of those designs shifted so heavily from Warband to Bannerlord in regards to models and texture work and its honestly much poorer than what we see in Warband.
>it looks bad tho
Again, you mean the fact that mail armor has different quality textures, different shaders and no cohesive look even within some factions like Vlandia? Or the fact that most armors are far too bulky and ill fitted with poor modeling quality. How about the fact that there are no heraldic tabards anymore? Those were prominent in Warband and are now gone.
Even TW thought the fantasy schlock for Battania was dogshit so they literally started ripping armor from the history books lmao.

>>2121103
>There's no reason to address your actual point, let me just spout completely unrelated shit instead

>>2121061
bruh, the vast majority if not all the MP players still playing warband are the hardcore professionals that have been playing it for what? 15 years af this point?
you will never ever be their peer.
they shit on cav players by dodging them or even chambering them.
it was easier to ride people down than to try and lance them.
i'm not sure you would manage to ride the remaining ones down though.
anyway, try switching between first and third person to try and get a feel where the lance points while aiming.

>>2121111
Bannerlord dropped the ball in regards to armor design and quality control. As far as I have seen from my recent Vlandia playthrough, this is pretty consistent for the rest of the game. I consistently run across things and think
>"wow, that was in Warband, I need to find a mod to add that in"
It seems to me they wanted some B-tier fantasy battle sim instead of a medieval sim and totally disregarded Warband (or even VC) in regards to design. I think the only thing I have seen that has been made better is the quests for villages but thats basically it. The battles and the formation system are worse than VC or WFAS, which was the main draw of the game lol.

>>2120850
Most of that is fixed by mods.
>Diplomacy, Dramalord, and Primae Noctis all work together and form a solid interpersonal system including most of the shit you mentioned
>Diplomacy, workshop rebalance, and some light tweaking (you do have notepad++, don't you anon?) fixes the economy.
>Deserters, manhunters, raiding, etc is all fixed with bandit malitias, settlement reblance, etc.
I'm not defending the shitty base game but I'm not going to pretend like the original turkdevs didn't make a good skeleton to build off of.

>>2121195
How do you fix the economy? From what I have seen its beyond fucked and any mods that tweak armor to make it more effective make the issue far worse. Is there some sort of XML file I need to edit?

>>2121223
Essentially, inflation. Download something that lets you tweak workshop output and troop cost/upgrade/wage amount and jack that shit up. Everything cost more so while selling your merc loot can still net you 50k, so can a single tourny or a 1/4 a year's workshop profit. Of course, a 150 army can cost 5k-10k a tick, so you better be on that grind if you're fielding a huge personal army.

>>2114626 (OP)
Hey did bannerlord ever come out of early access?

>>2121195
changing income sources will have an effect on snowballing and balance so you can't simply increase whatever.
you'll need to test the change and figure out how to rebalance the game.
no modder touched this shif because it's a huge pain in the ass.
dramalord diplomacy, separate relations and primae noctis are simply not enough. there is no integration to the game's native systems and no "real effect" on the game.
deserters integration should be accompanied by battle rework/rebalance. battles shouldn't be to the last man and parties should be able to escape, join a friendly garrison or simply becoming deserters.
we don't want warband's simlpe systems in bannerlord.
we need the systems to be expanded.

>>2121223
No one has ever been able to really simulate an economy properly in a game without everyone ending up starving, certainly not some random turks who barely even tried. Honestly your best bet is to build in a lot of seemingly convincing systems that cheat when necessary.

>>2121238
Turks put their foot down and said they're ending early access but that totally won't mean they'll drop it wink wink

>>2121242
That is to say, just editing some XML probably is not going to accomplish much except skew the already existing economy.

>>2121242
>>2121234
Damn...that kind of makes me miss Warband's economy. With the weekly wages, lower inflation and better scaled purchasing power grinding gold through battles and loot felt damn good. Shit, even though it was just flavor text the different text for villages and towns being opulent or poor made me feel pretty good about being able to keep my kingdom stable.

>>2121258
Settlements expanded helps with that, it even lets you put out patrols--just always make sure they're cav or else they can't catch jackshit. Honestly, Bannerlord's economy has it's benefits despite other areas lacking. I can enrich my kingdom by just trading solely inside my kingdom. Seeing all of the clan leaders fielding 175+ troop armies because me and my caravans churn my kingdom's economy is the tits. It makes me a happy merchant and it's why I identify on spiritual level with Rhodoks.

>>2120652
Move aside, pansy. The REAL infantry faction is here.

>>2121551
I honestly appreciate the direction of Bannerlord's economy enough to overlook a lot. Of course, to balance it, you need to do some stability analysis to make sure the system reaches a steady state, and that immediately filters a lot of people from tweaking it in any manner. It's nowhere near an impossible task, but you can't afford to be a retard throwing around numbers.

>>2120652
made for SWVDIVN DICK

>4,306 players on Warband on steam
Alright, what mod is everyone playing?
I haven't played warband since last decade and I randomly just checked the community hub because I was just thinking about the game.

>>2121679
Bannerlord

>>2121682
Post your ID to verify you are over 18

>>2121687
Fake

>>2121551
>I can enrich my kingdom by just trading solely inside my kingdom.
>me and my caravans churn my kingdom's economy is the tits.
how?
did they add the abikity to control where your caravans trade?

>>2121933
NTA, but I know the Party Control mod lets you do it at least.

>>2121551
So I need party control and settlements expanded? Thats not too bad. So for a Warband-ish modlist I should have
>Harmony, UIEX, ect.
>True controller/relations/tweaks
>Unlimited workshops
>Project Warlord
>Party controller
>Settlements Expanded
>Dramalord
>Various armor mods
>A unit overhaul that uses those armor mods
>Battle Size Resized
>Warbandlord
>RBM for the AI module
>RTS camera
and what else? Any mods to touch the bare UI and awful loading screen art?

>>2121945
Not sure if there are mods that make the UI and loading screens worse to fit the Warband aesthetic

>>2121945
All this and it's still worse than warband
This is like when people mod the bejesus out of oblivion or skyrim and it's still just an inferior version of morrowind

>>2122000
You have to go back

>>2121945
Immersive Battlefields
Better Smithing Continued
Useful Companions
Helmet Hair Continued Plus

>>2121551
Is this one the same as Improved Garrisons or is it different?

Modding out the workshop limits is pretty gay, ngl

>>2122002
Been here longer than you retard

>>2122063
I know you double nigger, I still remember your sturgians are le ebin vikings posts

>>2122000
Damn. Is there a way to edit or modify the UI/loading screens? I genuinely might commission someone to do it + an artist to make something like Ganbat's art from Warband.
>>2122000
Ill be honest, it does feel inferior to majority of vanilla+ warband mods. I downloaded someone's fork of Diplomacy from here with the 4k texture overhauls and WSE and in order to somewhat recreate that in Bannerlord it takes around two dozen mods to get 70% there. One of the cool features I saw with that anons mod was the ability to upgrade your weapons and armor, and even train your horse to a higher tier. A perfect end game money sink for you and your companions and I haven't seen anything like it in Bannerlord yet.
>>2122021
What do these do?

>>2122038
Can I ask why? Warband, VC and WFAS never had any workshop limits, and they didn't explode when an enemy captured your town. Having a limit on Workshops, especially now that they produce so little even with careful micromanagement, feels like shit.

>>2122092
>Immersive Battlefields
Makes your troops not mute
>Better Smithing Continued
Adds QoL/UI features to smithing, provides configuration stamina recovery options.
>Useful Companions
Mostly just iincreases the sources of XP gain on your companions
>Helmet Hair Continued Plus
Purely graphical, renders hair underneath helmets.

>>2122098
Okay cool. Ill add those too. TY anon.

>>2122097
>having your basically riskless income taken away from you feels like shit
Yeah, it does
Having a mod that makes workshops just stop giving you profits when they're in hostile lands like in Warband would be okay, but being able to get hundreds of sources of income from tiny investments is just way too good and turns from a way to add a bit of extra income into the way to get income.
Putting a limit on it was honestly a good thing because having a workshop in every town just removed any need for any other income.

>>2122097
>>2122107
Also they don't produce "so little" at all, the average wage of a top tier troop in Warband was 2-4x the wage a tier 5 troop in Bannerlord has and a perfectly profitable velvet weavery usually netted you around 500 denars while a profitable workshop in Bannerlord can net you 200+.

>>2122107
This isn't even remotely true. Putting a workshop in every town would take a significant investment that would take in-game decades to pay-off given how low workshop profits are. Not to mention that your workshops will compete with each other further driving down profits.

>>2122116
>in-game decades
Even a workshop that only earns you 50 denars a day will pay itself off in 500 days.
Your entire view itself is completely pointless, because you don't buy workshops to make money, you buy them to give you passive income to help lower the burden of expenses in the future.

>>2122120
>Even a workshop that only earns you 50 denars a day
Big assumption that it will be even that profitable. Fiefs change ownership, raids, competing workshops, and caravans can completely cuck profitability. For example, in one of my recent games the wood workshop I had in Seonon was inactive most of the time because caravans regularly bought ALL the wood available in the market. And of course, this is all ignoring the fact that if a town ever ends up under hostile ownership for any reason you'll have to re-purchase your workshop further ruining the investment.

>>2122124
>wood workshop
As far as I know those are fucked alongside smithies because they sell most of their shit for free
>If a town ever ends up under hostile ownership for any reason you'll have to re-purchase your workshop further ruining the investment.
That is fucked up, I agree

>>2122107
>but being able to get hundreds of sources of income from tiny investments is just way too good
From what I have seen so far, even in towns that have villages that provide the needed materials, I often only make a profit of <100. The most I have ever seen is 200 after I dumped in a shit ton of materials after literal years of collecting. You are looking at 130 days just to break even, if not more due to the low pay and the fact you have to change the workshop type and wait for it to get up and running.
>Putting a limit on it was honestly a good thing because having a workshop in every town just removed any need for any other income.
I disagree. The daily wages + the workshop income being low feels fucking awful. You need years of work in game to start making a proper profit and hoping nothing breaks and that your workshops don't randomly stop producing income, even with all the materials paid for by you via looting. I have had two break in Vanilla BL and just never produce income, so I had to sell them and lose a shit ton of cash consistently before I said fuck it and just never interacted with the system again.

>>2122131
>From what I have seen so far, even in towns that have villages that provide the needed materials, I often only make a profit of <100. The most I have ever seen is 200 after I dumped in a shit ton of materials after literal years of collecting. You are looking at 130 days just to break even, if not more due to the low pay and the fact you have to change the workshop type and wait for it to get up and running.
It depends on the prosperity of the town and probably the hearth amount of the villages as well, towns with prosperity over 6000 will usually have at least one workshop that gives 200+ per day.
>daily wages
Another good thing, it was way too easy to skip paying your troops proper wages by sticking them in a castle and only paying half
I don't know about you, but I actually like a game where I have to think about my monetary situation and save money for possible expenses instead of pressing a "passive income forever" button a few times.

>>2122137
>too easy to skip paying your troops proper wages by sticking them in a castle and only paying half
Barely anyone ever did this because it was too annoying to manage.

>>2122137
>It depends on the prosperity of the town
I mainly stuck with Vlandian towns, as they had the highest prosperity in the game and never got raided or attacked. IIRC I went with Uxhall and Jaculan and then one on Pen Cannoc for the wood workshop.
>Another good thing
IMO it was an awful change and totally unnecessary. Its also one of the reasons I think the economy is fucked and workshops are so poor. Weekly wages would be much better.
> it was way too easy to skip paying your troops proper wages by sticking them in a castle and only paying half
I have never seen or heard of anyone doing this. The closest thing I could think of is people stacking garrisons full of farmers to buff the garrison to absurdly high numbers so the AI never attacked.
> but I actually like a game where I have to think about my monetary situation
VC did it much better IMO. Not only was trading much better and more consistent between towns, villages and monasteries units were significantly more expensive and hard to come by. Good T4 and T5 troops were not only expensive, but worth every penny. In Bannerlord they feel only mildly more effective than their T3 counterparts due to armor not being as effective and skills not mattering as much.

The old /mbg/ divegrass team will be playing sometime next weekend in /ag/ League 9. Unlike /vg/ league, this is more of a casual competition with lots of people submitting OC teams and so the team and our opponents will be using fun tactics. We were put in a group with 2 old VGL teams (/fgg/ - Fighting Games General and /igg/ - Idle Games General) and an unofficial team for the destiny general on /vg/ so we'll have a comfy mini /vg/ league. I'll post the stream link and match time/day when they're announced, but in the mean time enjoy this goal I got when making sure all the player models looked alright.

>>2122149
Here's the roster for the team

>>2122149
noice

>>2122137
>I don't know about you, but I actually like a game where I have to think about my monetary situation and save money for possible expenses instead of pressing a "passive income forever" button a few times.
the main income in bannerlord is battle loot.
as long as you're winning battles, money isn't an issue.
i believe people discuss other income sources because fighting big battles all the time gets boring.
if taxes were the main income, you'd lose your shit when you're getting sieged because it would hurt.

>>2122067
Never made any of those posts schizo retard cuz I don't give a fuck about native >>2122092
Load screens would be easy enough but ui would take a while, took shokuho ages and they have no functional difference in interface

>>2122176
>the main income in bannerlord is battle loot
That is one of my issues with the game. Being a lord or switching from a mercenary to a lord is a massive draw back. You see a sharp drop in passive income from influence, most fiefs are pretty shit for income, you cant fill out towns with workshops or make caravans as your liege can randomly declare war anytime and if you get anything aside from a high prosperity town you lose income via garrisons.
Unlike in Warband being a noble (even an unlanded one) wont help you secure a wife, it ends up being a massive money sink with castles or low prosp. towns, and as far as I can tell it won't influence lords at all to help you. They just kind of ignore you, even if you have high relations. I genuinely don't see a point outside of RP purposes.

Thoughts on Shokuho? Haven't touched Bannerlord since around release, where I put a couple hundred hours in and then got bored.

But it seems like this is the first overhaul mod that actually delivers.

>>2122195
Even in Warband the mercenary stage was always my favourite part of the game. I wish Bannerlord actually expanded on it.

>>2122216
I am still chewing through the game with 1.5k days in but it feels like they forgot the rest of the game existed. Building up a name for yourself and the mercenary stages feel good, but the last half to the last third of the game feel absolutely shit to play. There are certain things that need mods to fix and make the game on par with warband, but its playable. Once you get over the mercenary phase of the game and switch to kingdom management and politics the game takes a nose dive IMO.

>>2122203
Its pretty good. I wouldn't say its going to save bannerlord but its a fun romp through feudal Japan. It has lots of QOL mods already baked into the mod like Diplomacy, Serve as a Soldier and probably a few more I cant think of. Its worth playing.

>>2122258
>Serve as a Soldier
Gonna be honest, the only mod that did this concept well is ACAN for Warband.

>>2122265
How's it different in ACAN? I never liked freelancer always found it super boring

>>2122298
You get to rise through the ranks until you become an officer, which means you get to command a small number of troops in battles. Then you rise through the officer ranks until you get promoted to a proper lord. You also have occasional story events, and special interactions in the lord's army to help you rise through the ranks quicker and give you something else to do. Admittedly the officer ranks and story events are ACAN specific, but the concept behind them could still be applied.

>>2121014
Looks fine to me.
>>2122149
good

>>2122176
>fighting big battles all the time gets boring
>so people want to do something even more boring instead
I don't get it, if I get bored of big battles I play another game.

>>2122149
Happy to know the football thing is still organized.

>still no reason to explore scenes

just add stashes, random quests from citizens (let him travel with you to next city, save potential companion from bandits/drunkards, stop thief running with loot, give beggars money for info to organize a burglary into one of the merchant's houses etc) , dungeons with good loot, market stalls that have different items for personal use but still within city culture.

Comon, sea dogs did all that shit and its now 25 years old?

>>2122438
It looks worse than either its Swadian or Rhodok counterpart.

>>2122705
Warband does have the same issue of big battles getting boring but it at the very least has a waiting period between big battles, giving you down time to do something else. In Bannerlord I have defeated and captured 4x 400+ armies from the Khergit's and they just send more. I think I ended up with 30-ish prisoners in Amperala when doing a Sturgian playthrough. They are long battles often set in a corner or bog, in a shieldwall formation waiting until the enemy runs out of arrows to kill them, then rinse and repeat.
I could also count on my faction at least sometimes doing something in Warband. It wasn't uncommon for the marshal to capture a castle or town, now if I want any battles won or any towns captured it is unironically all up to me.

>>2122868
Warband barely has any big battles so you can't get tired of them.
Also once the AI sends an army or two your way in Bannerlord the war is basically won as the rest of them will be like 70% shitty t1 and t2 troops that melt against your army. 400 men armies can't usually do shit besides taking one frontline fief with low garrison either.

>>2122873
>Warband barely has any big battles so you can't get tired of them.
I play with WSE so I can usually get battles above 500 most of the time by throwing my retinue against the enemy factions king and his congo line of enemies lol.
>>2122873
>Also once the AI sends an army or two your way in Bannerlord the war is basically won as the rest of them will be like 70% shitty t1 and t2 troops that melt against your army.
Maybe I am just too late in the game but there are usually several armies that have good-ish troops at T3+. Its genuinely a slog to fight through most of the time and it doesn't get any better with the lower tier peasants either. They just seem to spawn armies out of thin air and there is no breathing room compared to Warband.
>400 men armies can't usually do shit besides taking one frontline fief with low garrison either.
Maybe its just the Sturgians, Battanians and Empire but it seems my fellow nobles almost always lose battles either due to dumb decision making or poor RNG. I have lost quite a few wars with Diplomacy due to the fact my allies are just absolutely dogshit.

>>2122897
>it seems my fellow nobles almost always lose battles either due to dumb decision making or poor RNG
Yes, I recently became a merc in Battania with around 180 troops and I've saved multiple fiefs and armies with just those guys.
Sometimes the AI just can't get rolling because the instant they declare a war they get declared on and have to fight 2 factions at the same time and losing wars just tanks their income and influence and they can never get a new big army up. This is why the corner factions have a huge advantage.
Sturgs in my game have actually eaten Epicrotea and half of Battania, which is rare.

>>2122705
(you) are the target audience of bannerlord. short bursts of big battles then dump.
we like m&b because it's a medieval lord simulator not a battle simulator.

>>2122909
>we

>>2122913
yes, we.
look at the amount and type of shitting on the game gets whether it is on the forum, steam, here or even r*ddit.
we all complain because of the shitty or lack of interactions, diplomacy and economy.

>>2122916
That just means you're loud and obnoxious, like MPfaggots and trannies.

>>2122917
>everyone that disagrees with me is a loud minority like trannies and is wrong
or, when several different populations that hate each other agree on something, they might be onto something and (you) are wrong.
and MPfaggots get put in their place whenever they claim that MP is the main draw of the game.

>>2122925
>several different populations that hate each other
Nope, it's all Warband spergs, prove me wrong

I don't think the game is balanced well enough to be able to be all about big battles. Once you've figured out how to win regularly, just battles gets tiresome. It's like a balance between creation and destruction. You need the lord simulation part as a fuel that gets consumed by battles to give them meaning. If you just have battles, you're only consuming but never supplying.

I haven't played WB in over a decade but I also didn't think the battles were the main point as I was able to make them pretty trivial soon enough. I could win any field battle just by riding in a circle and picking people off with a two hander. I could solo any siege by sitting at the top of the siege ladder... with a two hander. I doubt that's keeping people interested for long.

Despite the problems I do stick with BL solely because of easier modding/multiple mods, but that's really the only reason. I find very little to like about the vanilla base game, and if it wasn't for WB I doubt I'd have ever heard of this series.

>>2122928
>I realized too late that this game is an unfinished mess. The combat is pretty good but game is lacking economy and diplomacy. Excuses like "Modders will fix that" are unacceptable and I pretty much lost all my faith in TaleWorlds when it comes to improving the game after 2 years of almost nothing
here you go. the dude doesn't own warband and complains about diplomacy and economy.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198847789748/recommended/261550/

>>2122953
>most played games are EUIV and CK3
I don't believe for a second this guy hasn't played warband and his other points are basically parroting the doomers of the taleworlds "community"

>>2122956
>wide as an ocean, shallow as a birdbath, best parts are complete overhaul mods. Im not sure what happened with this game. but Chronicles: Medieval c heck it out, its what i wanted out of this game. plus its closer to real history. Closer**
>Everything in this game is ankle deep, or not there, like diplomacy
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198832854463/recommended/261550/
again, doesn't own warband but still complains about diplomacy.

>>2122998
Congratulations, you found the one non-warband sperg vaguely complaining about diplomacy out of the 12% who don't like the game
Still amuses me how both of the guys complaining about the shallowness of a single player game have played it for over 300 hours.

>>2123008
want me to dig some more? at what point do i stop? remember when you said everyone was a warbandfaggot?
>out of 12%
>recent reviews instead of all time
it's 13%.
meanwhile, warband still has 97 fucking percent even in recent reviews.
note: i'm not saying that warband is better but it's nonsensical for the Turks to do away with features and downgrade other features.
bannerlord should have everything warband had but better.

>>2123010
>bannerlord should have everything warband had
No, a sequel should improve on the game instead of mindlessly adding the same shit in every iteration. Plenty of sequels haven't added features from prior games.
>warband still has 97 percent
and all of that would go away if they actually advocated for the vanilla gameplay with its forced walking scenes and every other piece of jank getting in the way of enjoying the game
It's fucked up how people give positive ratings to Warband because of its mods and negative ratings to Bannerlord because they think it needs mods

>>2123020
>a sequel should improve on the game instead of mindlessly adding the same shit in every iteration
the removed shit downgraded the sequel.
>It's fucked up how people give positive ratings to Warband because of its mods and negative ratings to Bannerlord because they think it needs mods
not even mods can bring the removed shit back from warband. or at least, there isn't one yet.
you can look at Shokuho reviews. it's basically the vanilla game with a few changes. admittedly, sieges are better.
bannerlord with mods is still unfinished while warband is finished with diplomacy and overhauls just make it better.

>>2123020
Some of the best games take features from the old games and make them better. In the case of Warband, look at VC. It pretty much improved every feature in Warband while solving the issue of overpowered armies turning battles into a slog. Outside of M&B, look at Halo or GoW trilogies.
> and negative ratings to Bannerlord because they think it needs mods
It does. In order to restore original features from Warband and bring it up to snuff you unironically need mods.

>>2123036
>warband is finished with diplomacy
No, Warband needs diplomacy just to be comparable to Bannerlord when it comes to gameplay.

>>2123062
What the fuck? No it does not. I am really only a few years into my game but honestly Warband was a more feature complete title by itself as compared to Bannerlord. Diplomacy wraps up the endgame for Warband nicely, and for Bannerlord its basically a requirement because your AI lords are too dumb to function without it.

>>2123062
wtf are you smoking?
>Send patrols to important locations
>Appoint a chancellor who sends gifts and messengers to other lords
>Village and town riots may occure if the people hate you and have to pay high tax rates. Counter them or negotiate with the leader.
>Let your spouse buy some food
>Move your residence (via spouse)
>Affiliate to families
>Send scouts to settlements
>Threaten other kingdoms with war and try to squeeze money out of them
>If a faction sues for peace you will have the option to set terms
>Send a spy to another kingdom
>Form an alliance, conclude a defensive pact, sign a trade agreement or conclude a non-aggression treaty with another faction.
>When asking for a truce you will get the option to pay and/or give fiefs to conclude a truce.
>If another faction recognizes you as king you will have the option to ask for help against your enemy and in certain circumstances support the decision by paying money
>Send emissaries to persuade lords to join your kingdom

>20 minutes of quiet followed by 2 posts with a minute inbetween
Interesting

>>2123084
I quite literally just got back home when I typed that out. I thought you were bullshitting.

>>2123099
Twice in a row?

>>2123108
No I was the first. Besides there is a time limit for replies no?

>>2123084
i told you it's we

are we listing mods here

>>2123778
because my ultimate goal is "how much before i forget how vanilla bannerlord is like" and i've still not achieved it

>>2123782
and also i've noticed a lot of mods have very interesting interplay with eachother, and if War Sails doesn't break fucking everything i intend to make several focused mod lists

>see enemy carrying banner running on the wall
>bolt his ass with my crossbow
>staggers him so hard he slips and falls down the wall to his death

>>2123778
>>2123782
>>2123786

>>2123786
>no Realistic Troop Feet

>>2123835
>>2123782
Damn thats a ton of mods. Holy shit. I personally don't play with that many because I feel that Bannerlord doesn't handle them as well as Warband, or at least most aren't on the level of quality that submods like Diplomacy were.

>>2123898
>Bannerlord doesn't handle them as well as Warband
Huh?
Warband only allowed you to have a singular mod

>>2123901
Warband modules often had submods implemented in them, like diplomacy, freelancer, battle formations ect.

>>2123905
That is completely irrelevant, they were still one mod considering they had to be integrated manually

>>2123908
I always considered them separately from the main mod as they are often updated and upkept outside of the module but I can see that line of thought. It being one packaged deal is certainly the case of Shokuho as IIRC its all handled in house by the dev team.

>>2114679
Almost kenshi

>>2114626 (OP)
Bannerlord is gonna have a showcase in Future Games Show tomorrow at 2pm EDT.
I'm guessing War Sails and new patch stuff is gonna be there, hopefully with a release date.

https://www.youtube.com/live/ZVRK-bSdkjo

>>2124212
>content is unavailable
it's over

I've played with Carbon Body for so long that the normal female models look like fridges. Did I goon too hard?

>>2124432
Retard

>>2122864
Nah, Warband graphics are just too old, it's that early era of 3d (well, not the earliest, but still).

>>2124316
It will be live in 10 hours.

>>2124212
Will we get ginge showcasing something that isn't going to come out for another 6 years again?

>>2124682
Retard

>>2125000
If you actually like those old graphics you are literally retarded compared to anon when it comes to what you expect from games

>>2124432
Why does the ginger towards the left have some weird shit on her lip, that's not a marking you make for a lip. I can't jerk it to this.

>>2125011
>Buh duh gwafix
Fuck off retard

>>2125084
Imagine being this salty for no reason

*THAT* WAS THE SHOWCASE?!
THAT WAS JUST A BUNCH OF CHEAP WALK CYCLES!

>>2125109
Gay ass zoomer speak, go back where you came from

>>2124683
lmao i'm retarded. did i miss it?

>>2125400
You did: >>2125379

>>2125407
>>2125379
nyooooooooo

literally nothing happened they didn't show shit except some death metal and boats sailing

Can't wait to finally get an infantry noble troop.
inb4 it's another cav unit

>>2124212
>>2125379
>>2125420
>>2125430
>Just a trailer showcasing the new faction.
>Half of it are scenes from the cinematic trailer we already saw.
>Not even an exact release date. Just 'FALL 2025' like we already knew.
Weak ass showcase. At least we got a new dev blog (bare minimum).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knh0HxK_d0Q&feature=youtu.be

https://www.taleworlds.com/en/News/580

>>2125465
We know the new Noble Troops will be Huscarls.

>>2125535
>https://www.taleworlds.com/en/News/580
I see people in the background sitting around in potentially what is a feast

>>2125535
I'm not excited but I'll probably sink another 100 hours into Bannerlord once War Sails comes out. Holy shit I just wish they would add some socializing and maybe some non-procedurally generated adventurers

>>2118504
have you tried to autoresolve?
if you manage to destroy their siege engines, it becomes a lot easier.
just spam ambush, destroy their siege towers but not the ram to trick them into attacking with it alone or with single siege tower+the ram.

>>2125535
>They wield hand or long axes, and spears in the shield wall, with javelins and throwing axes to hurl before the clash.
>They wield hand or long axes
what did taleworlds mean by this?
>Soldiers untrained for ships see all their skills diminished when battle shifts to the deck and sail. Mariners fight well on land too, though their lighter gear — suited for speed aboard ship — can leave them at a disadvantage against heavier foes ashore.
>As a seafaring folk, they sail faster on rivers and in coastal seas, as well as acquire more loot from raiding villages, villagers, and caravans. That said, their armies suffer from greater cohesion loss when on land.
what do we think about those?

>>2125566
It's not going to make the game that much more interesting

>>2125589
I haven't played the game in over a year so I'm sure I'll have enough fun with it again.

>>2125561
>a feast
>I just wish they would add some socializing
The clan system killed Bannerlord. It removed the uniquenes of lords for copy pasted clans where everyone is the same and no one acts in any particular way whatsoever.

>>2125567
>what did taleworlds mean by this?
It means they either wirld handaxes or longaxes.

>what do we think about those?
It makes sense. I'm glad Nords are specialized in naval warfare and that Khuzait suck at it, having no Mariner units of their own.
However, I don't look forward to Lords not changing their parties at all when embarking or disembarking, and having a static amoutn of mariners in their parties at all times, which I'm certain Taleworlds is incompetent enough to do, rather than having Lords store Mariner Troops in friendly ports while on land and exchange them for lesser troops while boarding a ship.

>Sturgians no longer have round shields
>Sturgians no longer have line breakers
Sturgia's done and bankrupt.

thanks to whoever said carribean legends. really fun game. combat is really meh but scratches that same itch of mount and blade of getting your crew leveld up and fighting around the world.

>>2125619
Sturgians are being slavified and thus it's fitting they become the roosters of the roster

>>2125601
I don't think so because there's nothing stopping clans from being given a personality and different motives. Individual traits could take a backseat to "everyone from this family is a cunt and they have a grudge with this other clan and maybe you" so long as we get a feel that sub-factions inside factions are doing things with and against eachother.

The problem is that they simply didn't fill up the games' world with these things despite the mechanics being there to do it.

>>2125684
>Sturgians are being slavified and thus it's fitting they become the roosters of the roster
This was brought to you by the Vaegirs.

Please remember us.

This trailer looks like dogshit lmao.

>>2125561
paywalling feasts would be so devillish but on brand for the eternal roach

once again i'm asking if enyone has the varg we wuz vikangz greentext saved

>>2125698
Yeah but at the same time I bet it's just some shitty little cinematic they made for the presentation and there aren't feasts or anything, lmao

>>2125601
I don't see why they can't simply have both, I mean with saddled edge or captivity events you can already turncoat individuals from clans, the functionality is there.
Why can't clan relationship be a baseline that you can then modify on an individual level based on character traits and interactions, like you might have a honorable and merciful nigga in a clan who's chafing at his sadistic clan leader and might even join your clan instead

Turkroaches are just being lazy and amateurish desu

>>2125795
As far as I know, that's already in the game, they just didn't actually do anything with it. There is clan relation but there is also base relation. Like sometimes the game will show you the clan relation and not tell you, other times the base relation (like in their encyclopedia entry, only the base relation will be listed). Also in the game's code it's very unclear which relation you're dealing with sometimes.

lol nord focused DLC when spearwall (and all formations really) and spears dont work well in vanilla

>>2122195
What I've noticed about a playthrough that's still in the merc era at tier6 is that the never ending stream of AI declared wars don't feel like complete shit anymore. All the complaints of the gameplay loop become positives. Defeated lords instantly spawning armies of recruits is free money. That border castle ground to dust after being sieged 9 times in 3 wars doesn't matter because it isn't going to be "awarded" to become your problem. War fatigue loss causing every lord to lose thousands each and 5 figure tribute doesn't change the 400 influence they're paying out at 400 denars a point.

Even with diplomacymod the actual gameplay of kingdom politics is so damn bad in comparison to the extended midgame. It's the same set of AI war/map behaviors but the fact their dumb decisions now directly effect your game enjoyment completely changes how you perceive it.

>>2125875
>only 3k expenses
Get the party control mod if you don't have it, set party creation to auto and disallow all parties from joining armies.
That way you can make armies from your own parties and thus increase your troop count.

>>2125625
Sea Dogs has better ship combat
>>2125805
Spearwalls were promised a rework

>>2123020
>a sequel should improve on the game
agree, so where are improvements?

>>2121238
Yeah years ago, the OP just hasn't been updated since 2020.

>>2126030
Graphics, battle size, performance, etc.
All the shit that people actually asked for before it came out.

>>2126033
>Graphics, battle size, performance, etc.
that is nice I guess
what about game mechanics? they are downgrade compared to warband
that is the problem if it just was improvement over warband in case of Graphics, battle size, performance then it will be great
but it isn't

>>2126034
I told you what the improvements were after your shitty bait post, now shut the fuck up because I'm not going to argue with your dumb ass.

>>2126036
then don't argue you dumb fag
just admit that I am right(I am)
sure graphics etc improved but rest is degraded

>>2126039
I admit you're right and Warband is better for you and your buttbuddies while everyone else is playing the su- inferior sequel.

>>2126042
its butter buddies as we feast on butter not buttbuddies you homo

>>2126042
Lol you're really bitching about "forced walking scenes" aka finding the guild master? Christ you dip shit zoomers

Only thing m&b/warband has over bannerlord is mods and some campaign features.
I am still waiting for Gangs of Glasgow port to bonerlord

>>2126006
>Sea Dogs has better ship combat
it looks like the same exact thing though

>>2126085
And a better levelling system
And better combat
You know, just the small stuff :)

>>2125971
>just quintuple your daily expenses by having some 90 man AI companion armies that do literally nothing
>...game enjoyment?
You might not be following along, the metaconversation here is that the gameplay progression is bad and every single "lategame" system beyond playing as a mercenary still sucks even with mods. A companion leading a party suddenly costing 5k a day until he blunders into an army doomstack "well because you could call him to your own army if you have the create army as a mercenary mod" isn't a good tradeoff. There alone half the party expenses I had was because I bought a nice safe correct culture fief on the sea border of the faction (hold fiefs as a mercanary mod) and had improved garrisons run patrols, otherwise a 250 man T5 custom mylittlewarband army would only be running me ~1600 a day while killing anything on the map under a thousand men.

Being a mercenary has a nice game feel but the second you get awarded a 500 prosperity frontier castle (or 6 at the same time) or make a money sink AI party or try to use the diplomacy options to nation build you no longer can play the game as roleplay or a combat sim, suddenly you have to cheese strat every newly unlocked system or just start losing.

>>2126286
>suddenly you have to cheese strat every newly unlocked system
Something I really dislike about BL. Stuff like making infinite gold just I'm randomly the world's greatest blacksmith every game isn't very comfy. I shouldn't want to feel forced to do that kind of shit on every playthrough just because the other game mechanics for other playstyles are really bad.

>>2126286
>>2126314
Sounds like someone hasn't learned how not to yolo their party to their deaths

>>2126317
>heh, sounds like you don't know how to cheese the game like my progamer self who pro gamerly... watched a world conquest youtube run to see how to break the games mechanics
>...fun?
Castles and towns are boat anchors, simple as. They don't make enough income to justify their garrison and it doesn't matter to the AI because they don't have those mechanics. Stock kingdom management is a joke. smithing is more profitable than warfare and warfare more profitable than caravans and caravans more profitable than workshops and owning a full kingdom less profitable than them all. Pregnancy without hotbutter is a chore for longterm clan play, base game companions are all shitty governors, 100 relation with the whole map doesn't mean anyone will defend your shit or back you in votes or join your player kingdom without a monumental bribe.

playing the game everytime by getting -100% escape chance for your prisoners, smithing to pay for your kingdom, and doing the iron trade glitch is only fun once or less.

>>2126355
not him but keeping garrison only for security like 100ish troops keeps fiefs somewhat profitable.
but you'll have to guard them with your clan parties army until you expand enough for them to become interior territory.

>>2126396
>...fun?
again how is that a progression improvement over mercenary work, that you have to turtle in your wrong culture fief smithing to make money or push the border ahead and hope the AI awards the new buffer castles to an NPC that isn't effected at all by prosperity or revenues. Cheese the game isn't a valid response to there being problems not even mods can fix about playing the game at the kingdom level.

>>2126355
>playing the game everytime by getting -100% escape chance for your prisoners, smithing to pay for your kingdom, and doing the iron trade glitch is only fun once or less.
I have done none of the above in my current game and I'm having fun
>>2126401
>how is that a progression improvement over mercenary work
Fiefs give you the ability to stash your goods and troops, meaning you can get right back to near full strength the moment you gain your freedom.
>NPC that isn't effected at all by prosperity or revenues
They are though, NPC clans get handouts from the kingdom, but even then poverty will make them less likely to keep big parties and much more likely to defect.
>Cheese the game
Literally nothing that guy mentioned was cheese

>>2126413
>getting caught
not very pro gamer of you. mercs don't have to fight pitched battles to defend their dirt, another plus to that part of the game's general gameplay loop.

Workshops let you store gear (their true use) and the perks for converting discarded equipment into XP let you instantly have a fresh tier5 army. Storing high cost troops in a fief is wasting money and baiting a doomstack into attacking you.
>AI lords effected by being broke
>proofs: they're easier to recruit in my world conquest run
and then still broke they're able to hold the fiefs you hand them, instantly populating them with ~150 men that at T2/3 would bankrupt them instantly if the fief had to support it's own garrison. All while materializing a T1-3 90 man army out of their asshole. To fall for the systems obuscation just sounds like you haven't played the game enough to realize how rudimentary and limiting most of these things actually are when you play a campaign past the ~10 hour mark.

I'll probably play bannerlord again this afternoon but I know full well it's shortcomings without coping about it. Playing as a vassal or faction stops being a medieval sim game, rapidly devolving into using the same handful of hard counters to AI behaviors.

>>2126429
>pitched battles to defend their dirt
That's the most fun part of the game though
>Workshops let you store gear
Gear, sure, but you'll still need to rebuy all your horses to get your speed back to normal.
>instantly populating them with ~150 men that at T2/3 would bankrupt them instantly if the fief had to support it's own garrison
They're poor, not bankrupt and those men come from the besieging army always donating troops to the garrison after a siege
>materializing a T1-3 90 man army
They only have like a base of 30-50 men, the rest they recruit and that's easy as fuck when the average village lets you recruit 6-9 troops without any perks
>using the same handful of hard counters to AI behaviors
Unless you want to take half the enemy's kingdom in a single war, or you're facing a kingdom much powerful than yours, you don't have to do that

>>2126440
proving you know the fake sim AI mechanics doesn't excuse any of them. They don't have wages and don't pay troops they recruit so castle prosperity and revenue doesn't effect them like it does the player, leading to the exact cheese strat described of making a new frontline and handing it to AI lords to protect your under garrisoned, barely profitable fiefs. When you're at hour 20 of a game and you're imprisoning lords who escaped your own party for the 5th time in a row as they try to turn their 50 spawn troops into 90 from 4 villages it stops being an acceptable set of mechanics. Wiping out a faction/getting it down to one fief shows exactly how bad the AI lord behaviors are as they end up with 3000 troops in one town from dozens of broke lords freshly defeated in battle having a hundred t2 troops.
>pitched battles are fun
they become tedious when they happen every 20 minutes and have guaranteed outcomes. It's a gameplay bottleneck that breaking a thousand+ strong army with your hardened core of ~250 troops only rewards the same war attrition as defeating the same 5 lord parties independently and doesn't stop the kingdom from printing off another army with thousands of banked peacetime influence as a corner faction.
>you don't have to win the war
That's just a lot more fun as a mercenary

Having a small/no garrison and ambushing the small enemy parties who try to besiege it is also very much a cheese strat. Necessary cheese, as the other side of that war priority rule is sending a 1500 man doomstack at your castle for having a high quality garrison instead of not attacking it.

>>2126458
>They don't have wages and don't pay troops they recruit
Got any proof of this claim of yours anywhere? Last I heard they did.
>pitched battles become tedious when they happen every 20 minutes and have guaranteed outcomes
If they have guaranteed outcomes they're not pitched battles
>the other side of that war priority rule is sending a 1500 man doomstack at your castle
Not sure if it's diplomacy or something else, but I haven't seen doomstack bigger than 1200, probably because I've yet to face the megasimpire.

>what mods fix the endgame.jpg

I have diplomacy, improved garrisons, mylittlewarband, rbm, and the other must have mods for the game to be gooder. I still haven't found a mod to give you something to do other than total world conquest.

>>2126472
AI armies that are under ~90 troops aren't because they're too poor it's because they're at party cap. You'll notice they're usually women with no combat stats leading them, it's what happens when the main lords of a clan are captured. But the troops they're fielding they can field perpetually, only the player can have their garrison and party abandon them from being broke. That every random character above 18 will become the clans next field army is another widely hated annoyance. You can have a hundred lords of a faction permanently imprisoned in your party and yet the kingdom will still find 20 randos to burn villages while hiring every mercenary on the continent despite having $0 in the treasury. It's less effective than the imprisoned lords and they have no influence to call an army together, but they aren't fun to fight and will demand 10k a day for peace despite 200 consecutive battle losses.

>>2126477
That's either completely wrong or they've silently changed the system in the past year or two.
Kingdoms have a secret NPC bank that wealthy clans pay into and poor clans get money from and if that goes to 0 the entire kingdom will start fielding 1 man parties.
I've seen it happen when I bankrupted a clan with the crazy wage I got in one of the freelancer mods.

>>2126482
>in my modded game something that never happens in native happened
shocking

No normal gameplay would put the kingdom into debt to not be able to field parties and hold garrisons, there would always be a greater inflow of cash from secret AI money sources that go into the secret AI canteen that pays for the infinite trashmob armies.

>>2126494
It can happen in native if the kingdom is poor enough for long enough or if you do crazy mercenary shenanigans and actually deplete their treasury.
>secret AI money sources
Again, you're talking out of your ass

>>2126498
there is no official documentation on how the AI actually makes money or what they spend it on, it's all obfuscated so it's an internet argument instead of widely known to be undermodeled. You via mods putting an entire kingdom below 0 into active wage debt and it breaking your game is not how the money mechanic works in general gameplay. A 1 town (or even castle) faction with all very poor clans will manage to field a dozen parties in perpetuity off somehow having passive income into that kingdom chest until a doomstack army finally takes their last holding. Even then landless they can stick around for months as a nuisance.

>>2126518
>there is no official documentation on how the AI actually makes money or what they spend it on
There have been dev posts about it on the forums.
Lords get 10-15 troops when they spawn in, they take troops from garrisons, they don't use horses to upgrade troops, they have the kingdom bank system which takes effect if they ever go under 30k gold, they get an extra passive xp boost that works like the leadership perks and they have a ton of supporters to give them extra influence.
The player can save up millions in the span of a few years just from battle loot, lords can do the same, which is why it takes so long for the money to deplete sometimes.

>>2126526
Which is why factions endlessly print 90 man armies of tier 1-3 troops until up to year after being completely stripped of land when their faction finally decides to fold. Because they don't have the same expenses as the player and their revenues are simulated.

You haven't ever noticed that you can buy a fief from a very wealthy lord and in your hands it suddenly is losing a thousand a day? If the AI had similar to player money mechanics that purported 2mil slushfund would be gone in weeks from garrisons alone.

>>2126532
>have you ever noticed that land costs more than it's worth
What makes you think bargaining actually takes any of that into account?
>in your hands it suddenly is losing a thousand a day
fiefs don't "lose money", just take the fucking garrison out or get an actually competent governor in there.
>2mil slushfund would be gone in weeks
2 million can upkeep a 2k garrison cost for 1000 days, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>2126537
Buying a fief keeps the current garrison, which would mean the AI lord was losing money. But he wasn't, because they don't have the same mechanics as the player.
>math hard
if 1 garrison loses 1000 and there are 50 garrisons in a kingdom, how many days does it take for 50,000 to equal 2,000,000? the answer is 40 but curiously every kingdom isn't destitute in month 2. The AI isn't paying player rates for troops and isn't earning player rate fief revenues.

>>2126401
i'm not saying the game is good or lacks major issues.
i like becoming a lord for the challenge and to cope with how shitty the game is.

>>2126540
What makes you say the AI lord wasn't losing money?
The player can make millions just from selling battle loot and the AI does that as well.

>>2126085
>some campaign features.
A lot of small features that add up to make a big difference.

>>2126314
I personally feel like smithing was a completely unnecessary addition to the game. If you really want to add a feature to allow custom weapons, just do it by commissioning blacksmiths to do it for you.

>>2126649
100% and as a bi product it made weapons less interesting than their warband counterparts

>>2126544
>>2126540
>>2126526
i just want to point out one more major AI cheat.
>they got money instead of battle loot
>they get full price of loot not the much lower selling rate the player gets
please carry on your interesting conversation.

>>2126473
dramalord and primae noctis give you the goal of chasing women.

>>2126477
>You'll notice they're usually women with no combat stats leading them
I hate this. I don't mind each kingdom having a few tomboy lords, but when they get to the point they have to throw 0 martial skills ladies into battle they really should be just suing for peace instead. Also the concept that the only gameplay difference between lords and ladies is their stats is lazy and retarded.

>>2126649
I don't find it particularly fun to do.
Gathering resources sucks.
Resting until your invisible stamina recharges sucks.
It is weirdly deep/complex/complete compared to other, more important systems in the game.
I find it very weird how you can just moonlight as a master smith in your spare time of being a world conquerer.

Man that whole system rubs me the wrong way.

>>2126663
The mandatory grind of needing to discover weapons parts also sucks.

>>2126656
My own personal speculation is that the cooldown on bartering with lords is to hide the fact whatever you trade to them doesn't go into an "inventory" and is just turned into it's item value so the game doesn't have to track inventories of hundreds of characters deeper than their equipment. I know that when you trade gear to companion parties they "sell" it and get trade XP but a pure AI lord I'd highly doubt has an array entry for 300 different pairs of worn boots instead of just getting XXXXX denars per combat victory. They also must get a large flat gold value from partial raids of villages because that locust behavior of a single town faction keeps them around and lets them hire every goddamn mercenary faction on the map.

>>2126682
>bartering with lords
People do this?

>>2126687
>when you freeze time outside of sanala and sell 4 billion denars of iron between the town and some trader to suddenly unlock the arcane power of buying land
>when you need to buy gf
In the vein of the secret faction bank game simulation nonsense you could also make every clan in your faction very rich so they'll stop fielding tier2 trash armies.

>>2126693
Locking the ability to trade fiefs to behind having 300 Trade was such a dumb fucking idea.

>>2126663
The roguery skill is also weird and annoying, like they expected people to have roleplay playthroughs in a game that has zero outlet for build variety. Smithing just directly can be tacked on to any playthrough and managed through companions. Roguery however is a personal skill instead of being attached at least to quartermaster with it's only useful thing being more battle loot. As if you need more battle loot. The bandit troops sucking and the XP donation skills letting you make fian champions out of noble recruits completely supercede it's usefulness.

Remember alleys? I sure don't.

>>2126694
Perk system as a whole is garbage, locking basic functions behind perks like being able to pick up items on horseback
Then there's some perks that are for completely different skills

Me when I see a horse fucker

>>2126759
>rbm makes horse archers weak bitches
>rbm makes javelins only good against shields
>mfw pikemen are better than shock infantry and counter everything

im playing the japan overhaul
that is all

actually that was not all the last time i played was 3 years ago and the skill system is still the same dogshit where you have to have half the skills on the player character because "party leader"
the fucking state of this company

>>2125687
>This was brought to you by the Vaegirs.
Funnily enough they're apparantly calling their Varangian Guard expy in-universe the "Vaegr Guard"

>/mbg/ being alive with discussion excites me to try bannerlord again
>bannerlord needs a 28mb update
>click update
>content servers unreachable
>retry
>corrupted download
>retry
>corrupt download
>retry
>content unavailable
it's over

>>2126965
i looked it up. there is a setting named
>game file transfer over local network
disabling it allowed the game to update.

>>2122149
The team plays on Sunday around 19:00 UTC on the stream marked in pic related. As always the game might start later than scheduled if the earlier games go longer than expected so I'll post again when the game before it kicks off to give a ~30 minute heads up.

>>2126965
>download Shokuho
>1100-1200kb/s
fuck. should i play warband instead? what mod though?
i've never done a proper 1257ad nor a geko playthrough.
evens 1257ad
odds geko

Can't make this shit up

>>2127060
what shit exactly?

>>2127068
The shit above that post

>>2127075
w-what's wrong with it?

>>2127099
You can't make it up

>>2127102
w-why?

>playing shokuho
>done with early grind as a mercenary to get clan rank 2
>stop being a mercenary for mori and go join with nobunigga himself
>the moment i join their other army captures a shitty castle and they give it to me since no fief
>next up is a shitshow of every faction near my castle going to war with oda and sieging me
>think to myself that surely my massed guns will work amazingly for siege defense
>defensive sieges in shokuho are basically impossible with guns because there are no proper walls to shoot down from

>found an old save
>357 days
>neutral forts taken
>had a decent army of 125 strong
>Uesugi clan lord
>resume playing it
>remember why i stopped playing warband
why couldn't bannerlord improve on warband instead of being something else entirely?
bannerlord is so fucking smooth. i can't believe this is the thing filtering me.

So we're finally getting swimming and boats.

>try realm of thrones again
>unplayable load time, complete spaghetti code 110% cpu utilization bullshit on every button press if it even gets past the starting screen
I played it same rig around the time they finally added dragons and it was normal, what did they fuck up or is it just impossible to find the right build of the game to go underneath them?

same for The old world but I've never gotten that piece of shit to load at all

>download shokuho
>works for 5 minutes then needs to compile 700 shaders before a battle with more than 10 people in it
>altF4 and try just compiling shaders
>picrelated
>100% cpu utilization at 4.3gh/s.jpg

The base game being a cpu hog circa 2019 was a bit of a meme but why is it that every "one click overhaul" mod is unplayable without rgb and gamersocks. Nothing any of these is doing justifies needing a cpu worth more than a midrange graphics card.

Personally, I'm excited for Nords. I never liked the random mashing together of Nords and Vaegirs that made up Sturgia, it always felt like a Redanon cope fanfiction come to life. I remember when Sturgian troops had different names before the game came out and none of you fuckers liked how they shoved Vaeniggers into my beautiful nord faction. The fact that Sturgia can finally be a true preceder kingdom to Vaegirs--and get stomped off of the map like they deserve.

>>2127593
Agreed.

>>2127593
>Retvrn 2 tradition of nords not just being sea raiders and varnigger shock infantry
now they just need to make mount and blade 2 bannerlord; warband and make the game good by not being about the byzantines.

I don't really see how the nords will play any different than the vaeger units. all shock infantry and shields with ship bonuses won't do much if they're sharing a land border with 4 factions who'll just zerg them as a second batannia.

>>2127611
Vaegirs will be the new Battania and get raped every game instead of every other game like it is now.

>>2127611
I do think the game would've been a whole lot better if they swapped the Empire's factions for Not-Prussia (I know they were an extremely minor power in the middle ages, this is my fanfiction) Not-Austria, and Not-Southern German Confederation lead by Bavaria and also northern Italy. You wouldn't have to change much about the map at all, just get rid of the shitty turkroach pseudo-historicity.

>>2127675
that sounds horrendously dull, central european medieval countries with flavors of german are even more insipid and boring than medieval greeks

at least the byzantine is a)much less commonly seen in any form of media b)fitting to a crossroad of east, west, north and south cultures

>>2127675
I really wrack my brain trying to figure out why the turkish state department are apparently worstgirl romaboos. Like is there some weird attaturk post ottoman cope about being the trve Rome or something no one outside of turkey realizes they believe? Like the real life byzantines the empire is just so... not interesting. Not in lore, gameplay, or the general campaign behavior of losing and having no redeeming military qualities. And yet everything else had to suffer for them to be jammed into the game.

>>2127677
>the thing every mod mods the game into being is... le bad actually

>>2127679
>the thing everyone mods the game into being

Game of Lord of the Rings with Amazonian sluts?

>>2127231
Bannerlord was pretty fucking rough up until recently. Performance was shot for a year after launch, none of the formations work right currently, sieges are easy to cheese and the AI is extremely poor on the campaign map. There so so many little things that just don't work or are a straight downgrade from Warband that its hard to focus on the positives IMO.

>>2127679
>attaturk post ottoman cope about being the trve Rome
The Seljuk Turks call themselves Rome the moment they ate half of the Eastern Roman Empire

>>2127721
>none of the formations work right currently, sieges are easy to cheese and the AI is extremely poor on the campaign map
>straight downgrade from Warband
This nigger is implying he actually used formations and didn't cheese sieges in Warband
Laugh at him.

Batt*nians aren't human.

>>2127838
Arrow goes up,
Vlandian goes down.

>>2127838
Buttanians

Should I uninstall the diplomacy mod?

Any mods that make the game less ugly/fixes visual stuff?
I'm specially looking for mods Anons recommend to fix NPCs' butterfaces, ugly hair textures, body proportions, among other things.

I know of:
>Banner Fix
>Missing Hair Fix
>Helmet Hair Cover Tweaks Expanded
>Artems Lively Animations
>Realistic Practical Holsters
>Women in Calradia (NPC Replacement Version)
>Culture Diversity Mod

>>2127999
>Women in Calradia (NPC Replacement Version)
Doesn't really make them look better so much as it makes them all look the same.

>>2128002
I guess. It's just hard to find stuff that actually makes NPCs not look like potatoes, specially randomly generated NPCs.

The stock characters (there's about 600 if I recall) mostly look okay , but yes as soon as randoms start getting generated, they either look completely horrible, or are built straight from a template (you get a 20-year old rhagaea look alike for instance). I am not sure what the solution is other than just adding a lot more decent looking character templates.

Be careful what you ask for.

is mountain blades a fun game yet? What about their village builder version?

>>2128024
>village builder version
No such thing unless you're talking about Custom Settlements

>>2128030
bannerlords and manor lords no?

>>2128036
Bannerlord villages are nothing more than quest and troop dispensers and Manor Lords is early access trash that doesn't belong here.

>manor lords
>can't even build a harem off of knocked up defeated females

Does the main quest for Bannerlord still do the thing were three factions declare war on you for no reason?

>>2128072
>no reason
This retard is trying to gaslight us about The Conspiracy™

>>2128061
Which mods let you do this?

>>2127952
>lageta
>sargot
>charas
working as intended

>>2127952
...are you assuming the default campaign AI would not start a 4 way war? Battania existing at all is thanks to the diplomacy mod anon.

defeat an army and force the varniggers into peace, let the AI fight the empire jobbers, then take lke rovalt and ostican to cuck the vlandians into having half the resources and focus down them until you don't have 5 borders.

>>2128151
captivity events. less so primae noctis.
you can imoregnate defeated females at a relations cost in primae noctis

>>2127803
I do. You can port the formation system from VC or WFAS back into vanilla (as well as VC's leveling system) and it works flawlessly while also being significantly better than Bannerlord's. Diplomacy Litdum has done even better in this regard via adding in a prebattle RTS cam to place formations and having more advanced tactics for the enemy to use. The Rhodocks now actually brace their pikes for example and will decimate your cavalry.
>didn't cheese sieges in Warband
Are you talking about jumping on peoples heads, gliding to the back and then taking out the archers/crossbowmen while your men make it up the ladder/ramp? I wouldn't consider that cheesy. You can do basically the same thing on Bannerlord by riding up to the walls on your horse, raising the ladder and climbing it before the enemy even gets there. The best part is, is that if you are using an axe you can kill almost the entire garrison in your section because the AI will genuinely ignore you until they get to their designated defensive position, at which point they are on par or worse than Warband's.

>>2128179
No, I'm talking about running up to a castle with all sharpshooters and removing the entire garrison from range with no issues because lol shields suck

>>2128022
That's NPC Revamp 9.0, I think, that just from Rhaggy's looks it seems like ass.
I think Noble Nobles or Better NPCs look slightly better, but honestly it doesn't take away the potatofaces from RNG NPCs.

>>2128022
Seriously what was the point of this mod if it makes them uglier

>>2128018
It's also why executing lords is absolutely retarded. All that does is making clans start filling up with randomly generated lords of VERY low design quality. It's like you pressed randomize in TES Oblivion char creator and shipped it.

>>2125535
they are going to hide essential fixes behind this DLC, aren't they?

>>2128267
According to the local schizo, yes.

>Bannerlord? War Sails? No updates?
>What are you talking about anon? Come and join me, there is plenty of butter left for this feast.

>>2128267
>>2128272
They said no in a dev diary. Plenty of stuff is gonna be free for the base game, supposedly.

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/261550/view/537722458840500092?l=english
>Robust Stealth System
>Random Events
>Town and Castle Projects Revamp
>More options regarding the passage of time
>Parley Feature
>Character Import & Export feature
>Combat improvements, specially related to spears.
>New Sling weapons.

>>2128273
Fuuuuck man. There's some kind of old-school charm to Warband's simplicity that Bannerlord simply can't recreate.

>>2128370
It's called SOVL

>>2128369
>Combat improvements, specially related to spears.
Man, I love how they nerfed the shit out of spears during the beta test because of all the mpfags screeching about them and now they're slowly buffing them up to how they were
Same with horse charges.

>>2128370
>>2128371
Shit
Only
Virgins
Like

>>2128373
Unvirgin scum should kill themselves desu senpai

>>2128372
>it was player feedback that made spears as bad as warband and cavalry just not equipped with couchable lances
what fresh cope is this

>>2128399
what if you've only ever been with 1 person tho

>>2128401
disgusting slut whore

>>2128402
i am a man

>declining ransom offers loses you honor and relation
>you can just close ransom offer and lose no honor or relation
Always thought this was dumb but it is a godsend for making wars not even worse

>enemy lords escaping at -100% escape chance
since goddamn when

>Try Prophecy of Pender
>low tier bandits come with full plate armor, plated warhorses and lances, as well as 100+ proficiency in all weapon and 10 in strike/iron
>try perisno
>low tier bandits come with full plate armor, plated warhorses and lances, as well as 100+ proficiency in all weapon and 10 in strike/iron

Why do all modders have to be so retarded? Why cant there just be a normal low fantasy mod where things arent completely OP bullshit right out the gate? The lord of the rings got balance right but is held back by the idiotic siege system

>at point of playthrough where doomstack of 250 tier 5 and 6 mylittlewarband troops repeatedly kill 5-700 man enemy armies in the latest 4 way war caused by some frontier wrong culture fief promised to the batasturempiserians 6000 years ago
>start new playthrough surely doing a different goal like... uh... bandit troops or something
>get about 5 minutes into throwing recruits at bandits as a skill'let that takes ingame days to get back above 30% health
>game thankfully crashes freeing me of Sisyphean task of trying to get to the couple hours the game is fun

Has anything in the warsails adcopy suggested they're even attempting to add some kind of late game deeper than infinite wars or is it just going to be latest modpocalipse? I come back to bannerlord like once every year and half and play it for 20 hours before realizing why I've never bought it.

>>2125601
Clan system is more important than meme feasts anyway. Feasts are just a fluff.

>>2127368
>>2127462

Mods for Bannerlord are apocalypse tier, The Old World is really cool but the devs are still trying to figue out how to make Warhammer orcs in that engine.

That said, i only got it to work after a few tries and took me almost 4 hours of compiling shaders on and off. Never again.

>>2126762
Pikemen should be rather weak against horse archers, since most people don't have good armor in this period. Javelins should be good all around. Horse archers should be weak against heavy cav (if it catches them) and not super good against light cav, and also should be countered by foot archers.
>>2127009
Good.
>>2127593
I will tell you something you might not like, but slavs and nordics had similar gear in this period, which is why Sturgia and Nords is kind of the same thing, at least as far as armor and weapons go, maybe Sturgia should have a slight steppe influence, but that's it.
>>2127999
NPCs look fine as is, but there is a mod that adds more facial hair and head hair consistency across factions.

>>2128514
>in this period
>fantasy 1300ish
just got to Tau them into melee. RBM doesn't stop the death circle around static armies on foot but making armor actually work and unhorsing a lot more common properly cucks the cheese tactics of all shock infantry all horse archers all fians etc. by making spears works while arrows and javelins no longer .50bmg against plate armor but incapable of breaking a shield.

>>2128488
Pendor is a mod about grind and cheese, it's not only encouraged to play the most optimal horse archer build, it's required

>>2126762
massed archers counter everything except sieges fuck that shit

>>2128400
It's not cope, spears in the early multiplayer beta were murder machines, easily one shotting peasants in the face.
MPfags screeched about how hard it was to fight against them and so they were nerfed to shit.
Charge damage was also similar, it used to be that the slightest movement of a horse knocked you down, but then it was nerfed to the point where horses couldn't knock you down even at near max speed before it got buffed to the current level sometime during early access.

>>2128529
>it's required
not really. you can play a sword and board builed if you are willing to spend more time vs a horse archer build.

>>2128507
>suggested
it all depends on how you interpret the writing of blogs; literal or just flavour text.

>>2128571
>spears in the early multiplayer beta were murder machines, easily one shotting peasants in the face.

Sounds pretty realistic

>>2128571
>easily one shotting peasants in the face.
As they should be.

>>2128372
I genuinely hate that they changed the entire game's balance to be based around MP. I can't remember if it was the community manager "Mexxico" or someone else on their forums, but the whole reason for armor DR% changes and the like were due to MP balance. They were chasing after Mordhau and Chiv 2, wanting to be the next big medieval slasher hit. They completely fucked both MP and SP so no one is really happy without overhauling the game drastically with mods. I fucking hate it. There was zero reason to change any SP stats due to them being able to separately balance MP anyway.
I played MP events on Warband and just regular TDM/castle defenses occasionally and it was simplistic but good. SP was the main draw for most, myself included and TW's new management basically threw all that away.

>>2128728
>TW's new management
No such thing

>>2128514
>since most people don't have good armor in this period
TW did some weird shenanigans with balance and armor pieces so the Vlandians, who are supposed to be Normans/Franks, are armed with armor from a much later time period.
The pikemen would be at the very least resistant to arrows at range due to them wearing gambesons + mail. Crusaders during the 1100s were wearing the same armor and were a massive pain in the dick for the Muslim's because they just kept eating quivers of arrows and walking around like nothing happened.

>>2128733
>Vlandians, who are supposed to be Normans/Franks, are armed with armor from a much later time period.

I fucking hate the Vlandians in-game, they look completely out of place, their aesthethic compared to the rest of the setting ( losely based on 700-800 ac) sticks out like a sore thumb, they are waering plate armor from the 1400's.

I fucking hate the Japanese in real life, their aesthetic compared to the rest of the setting (17-18th century) sticks out like a sore thumb, they are wearing armor and using swords from the last millennium.

>>2127009
The streamer is little bit ahead of schedule but the game before us is kicking off so we'll be up in about 30 minutes. The stream link is https://cytu be/r/moeshit. There's a new model for one of the keepers that I made using assets from Calradia 1417.

>>2128757
You're just historically ignorant of the byzantines because they're the byzantines and being the byzantines they were armed and armored like the goobers we have almost up to the fall of Constantinople in the 15th century. Implessive in 900AD but even in 1204 at the sack of constantinople you had western knights in great helms and coats of plates with early leg harnesses rolling over guys in scale mail still holding spathas and not using castled saddles. And they stayed in that archaic equipment until 1 of 3 things happened; they westernized, they easternized, or they were in the 95% of the empire captured by the ottomans.

Batannia shouldn't exist and sturgia is finally getting "fixed" back to being bad slave kergits, one can only hope the britbongs are changed back into being swiss so the timeline doesn't have guys in animal skins when they setting should already have white harnesses in SWADIA during the final fall of the empire.

>>2128809
The game before had very little action so they're setting up for /igg/ vs /m&b/ now.

>>2128812
NTA but their gear is a bit out of place IMO. They really should be in the early to mid 1000's as far as their aesthetic is concerned. Judging by some of the art and flavor text, thats kind of what they were aiming for
The devs didn't do a very good job selecting for armor pieces or even making them as they are all pretty shit in terms of quality with 90% of the mail textures just not matching up.

>>2128831
>golden horde on the border of the wests east
>eastern roman empire being the archaic thowback they are
>bucket helmets and brigandines on the V6 vlandians
>surely it's 300 years earlier than depicted... because!
you're also forgetting
>17th century arab plate and mail on the aserai
turkroaches watched kingdom of heaven one too many times, the aserai are the actual outlier on gear. They're armed and armored like the british saw taking egypt or mughal india in the 1880's.
which juxtaposes terribly with the battanians being like bronze age celts for no reason whatsoever when they suddenly become crossbow wielding mountain halberdiers in a ~century for warband.

Take this "muh fantasy culture can't have armor inspired by another time period" shit to /his/

>>2128858
>why is there historical discussion in a medieval military battle sandbox simulator general
>mad vlandia is one of the only ones they got right
>knowledge of byzantine history after 1000 hours of bannerlord: 0 strategic turkish state cultural product failure

>>2128853
You really only need to look at the art, what is present in game and some of the snippets of lore in the digital companion. Like they literally have the bayeux tapestry set up in a few of their castles as well as the Norman face plate helmet, and the whole "western knights fighting Byzantines" schtick. It would also make sense chronologically with Warband seeing as Warband has early plate armor starting to role out. 1100s seems to be around the right time period IMO.
>you're also forgetting
Your right I did actually forget the Aserai. I honestly never fight them, even when I play as the Vlandians for some reason. They never ever come out of their desert save to smack one of the empires sub factions.
>bucket helmets and brigandines on the V6 vlandians
Honestly considering we have Celts wearing Le Tene era armors from the bronze and early iron age I am genuinely not surprised that they have other weird shit thats out of place for the Vlandians. Also, those bucket helmets are terribly made. Whoever changed the art direction for Bannerlord from realistic to whatever larp-tier shit we have now needs to be fired.

>>2128865
>medieval
I don't think you know what that word means

>>2128812
I just want to comment that TW completely botched the Empire/Byzantine helmet design. The ones in Bannerlord look like ass.

>>2128867
and bannerlord has transitional plate. because it's world chronology wise ~1250, which is after the 4th crusade and sack of Constantinople where guys in bucket helmets and brigandines zerged over their schizmatic christian friends still using spathas and 2 handed lances.

They fucked up the "past" with the batannians and nord-vaeger merge. Their everything being wrong is more annoying than the splint mail gloves being ugly on banner knights. They were ugly in warband too.

The stat balancing on a lot of armour pieces makes no sense either.
>Lamellar Boots = 19 armour
>Mail Chausses = 20 armour
>Splint Boots = 22 armour
>Strapped Mail Chausses = 23 armour
By all rights it makes no sense. How does a leather boot with lamellar metal plates on the front protect less than what is basically a mail sock, which protects less than a leather boot with metal splint band on it, which protects less than that same mail sock with leather straps for ankle support?

>>2128757
No they aren’t. They're 1100 at the latest. Battanians are just subhuman.

>>2128895
Both vanilla and RBM heavily under estimate mail and striped lamellar and over scale/other lamellar.
there's no flexibility stats in game, so all armors should be assumed to give the same flexibility with their thicknesses, which mathematically means the scale/non-striped lamellar must be really really thin.
I'll upload my modifications of RBM armors stats which take that into account.

>>2128878
>They were ugly in warband too.
The higher tier gauntlets in warband are definitely a downgrade from m&b. I miss the hourglass plate gauntlets and the yellow scale mitten gauntlets from the original.

>>2128828
The match result is that we won in a thrilling 3-2 comeback. 1 game in and we're on top of the group thanks to goals for being a tiebreaker. Here's a link to the archived game video in case you missed it https://implying.fun/video/agl9/2025-08-24/?t=1:43:33.0

I don't have any official date or time yet but it sounds like we'll be playing the second match on Friday vs /dg/. There are 96 teams and the first knockout round is a round of 64 where the top 16 3rd place teams will advance so we stand a good chance at advancing.

>>2129015
>I don't have any official date or time
It will be on Friday at 19:00 UTC but the stream is still TBD. Again I'll try to post and include a link when the match before it kicks off.

>>2126663
>It is weirdly deep/complex/complete compared to other, more important systems in the game.

That's the most accurate description of what's wrong with Bannerlords' game design i've read. It's a medieval(shut the fuck up) RPG, RTS, Simulator hybrid where everything seems to be conducting the player towards its main feature, which is big battles and melee combat, but all the other features of the game are very tenuously connected to it at best, or just independent time wasting number crunching games that take time AWAY from the combat at worst, Smithing is bad but trade and settlement management are also big aspects of the world and of what you can actually do in the game and they're awful and convoluted as well. And these features were 100% created at the expense of much more important things, fucking with a system that mostly already worked in Warband.

now i'm just an idea guy but if smithing had been worked into the game loop properly it would look something like this
>weapons and armor no longer stay in perfectly good condition after weeks in campaign and battles
>every item starts gaining negative modifiers(cracked, bent, rusty, tattered, etc) the longer they go while on the field and the more combat you experience
>some items just break and become unusable or get consumed forever like wooden shafts for spears or cloth getting shredded up and soaked in blood and shit(mostly tier 1 disposable garbage to make it less annoying)
>smithing is now mostly the task of maintaining the massive amount of equipment armies use in good condition for battle and replacing the steady consumption of it
>having a good smith in your party can drastically affect the rate at which this happens and is important for parties larger than 32
>replacement items like loot and raw materials are almost as useful for an army as food because you can have the shit in your inventory be handed out to troops as their junk gets worn out or broken/lost

>>2129073
cont.
>on the improvement side of smithing, after grinding enough smithing skill you can now improve already made items and give them positive modifiers including armor
>you can do this for your equipment, companions or troops or even other lords' troops or garrisons accounting for material costs and time spent(the more smith companions you have the faster you can do it and the more practical it is for missions)
>you can fix up broken and shitty loot and sell it at a profit or quickly raise troops up to higher tier without having to give them as much XP or paying as much(interplay with the stewardship skill)
>armor can now be crafted but requires extra steps and materials that have their own production line like quilted cloth, linen, leather, bronze, etc and pieces that might even need a special perk like mail, rivets, lamelles, articulated joints, etc to make so that you need more smiths with different skills to build literally everything, or have a city that produces it

>>2128927
>there's no flexibility stats in game

The ACOK 8.1 mod for MB actualy had a good simulation of this. Heavier armors like plate and long mail would give -2 to power draw/throw or athletics so you couldnt just run around with invincible armies of snipers with 80 body armor. It also gave a reason to build around light mail, brigandine, leather, etc.

>>2129073
Yes

>>2129073
that then runs into the existing problem of either making your main character a eagle eyed horse racing engineer accountant weaponsmith or having to find the only 3 useful companion surnames in the entire game to fill 1-2 of those. Think about the early game if your piece of shit iron sword went from some damage to no damage and your armor all gained negative modifiers and your troops laterally downgraded into "[bedraggled] _______" without a 300 skill smith or actively needing to use smithing stamina to "fix" troops.

The game needs more broad systems. There just isn't enough here for in depth systems, new ones or the existing one. The most glaring thing they need to do

1.make AI clan reputation much more granular and actually effect AI behavior.
>friends should defend your castles
>friends should cost lower/no influence to be in your army
>friends should not escape your party/fiefs when captured (add in more mechanics like friendship loss from captivity without effectively a feast button or something)
>friends should cost no or a lot less gold to recruit if they aren't also friends or are enemies with their ruler
>friends should release you after battle and/or not steal your shit
>friends with rulers/plurality of enemy faction clans should make war fatigue start higher and increase quicker up to the point a "war" between you and them is like 3 battles long (barring the basic bitch diplomacy mod things that should be in the game)
>friends with rules/most enemy clans should make war tribute lower

2.traits should have bigger bonuses/world effects to make gaining and keeping them matter.
>negative traits should do more than let AI lords kill you exceedingly rarely
>positive traits should do more than fucking nothing

There are so many big systems that need to stop being placeholders for any work to go into minutiae of the sim.

Just do away with smithing as a skill entirely. It makes zero sense for a mercenary, lord or a king to be smithing his own weapons. Bring back the maintenance skill from VC and throw in the ability to upgrade weapons/armor/horses from Warband's submodules.

>>2129114
Issue is people get pissy over devs removing content from the game.

>>2129098
>making your main character a eagle eyed horse racing engineer accountant weaponsmith
The vanilla Bannerlord skill system already encourages this

>>2129122
>unfuck my shit update
>add armor "smithing"
>smithing is now handing a smith 20k gold to make that piece of armor the shops never spawn
>pair it with "fiefs make money" that 10x's the player only fief revenues to keep up with the magic kingdom bank only you can't access
>barter for fiefs dropped to 200/300 skill and battle loot counts for trade experience
leaving the game in a state where the easiest way to pay for your world conquest is trading javelins for the 100k daily infinite vendor gold is worse for them than the backlash for unfucking it. They shouldn't just remove it but they should rework the economy mechanics that make it bad.

>>2129122
Yeah and that's why you got to be more careful adding random shit in the first place. They wasted a ton of time making that, too, when they could have been doing something else. That'd be some okay roleplaying system, but how do you roleplay in this game? There's nothing to do but ultimately go out and get into wars and shit. Waste of time and effort making that whole thing that could have been avoided with a little thought at the drawing board stage.

All Batt*nian women's ever good for is being our healsluts as we raid their villages and kill their men

>>2129098
>that then runs into the existing problem of either making your main character a eagle eyed horse racing engineer accountant weaponsmith or having to find the only 3 useful companion surnames in the entire game to fill 1-2 of those.

Ideally it should just be a passive decrease that wouldn't leave you completely fucked if you ommit it, that's why i think ultimately it should just lower the upkeep costs because a big chunk of the upkeep of a party is going into maintenance. You'd either pay out of pocket to have your troops sort their shit out or interact with that mechanic yourself. It'd just need them to stop by at an actual town every so often which you will have to do to buy food anyway.

>Think about the early game if your piece of shit iron sword went from some damage to no damage and your armor all gained negative modifiers and your troops laterally downgraded into "[bedraggled] _______" without a 300 skill smith or actively needing to use smithing stamina to "fix" troops.

Sounds just like being stuck in a low food and zero morale feedback loop honestly, But in early game you should have other options like joining an existing party for a bit(introduce a native version of serve as a soldier), or have a floor below which the shit you consume/wear out won't go below. Frankly i've never in a normal playthrough had not been able to procure spare shit to outfit myself and at least two companions even at my poorest, i don't think that would happen unless you're escaping capture and then it doesn't matter since you ain't got troops.

On the topic of that, i've always wanted to be able to ransom not just companions but my actual Tier 5 troops from a batter instead of having to raise new ones all over again, it's fucking unfair i can't get them back.

>>2129122
Most people have shit taste. Smithing doesn't really make sense for Bannerlord and it was clear that the smithing system that is currently in place wasn't what was planned. If you go into town you specifically ask the smith if HE can make something for you. Early gameplay from Gamescom also showed you paying the smith to make weapons and armor for you.
You doing it yourself seems like a last minute addition that doesn't belong in game.

>>2129296
>Early gameplay from Gamescom also showed you paying the smith to make weapons and armor for you.
source. right fucking now you lying faggot.

>>2129397
He's speaking the truth, it's from way back when Ginge was the community manager.

>>2129398
that's not a source. since you're defending "him" why don't you provide a source in his stead?

>>2129403
https://youtu.be/bbrnPtybNd4?si=_6saIC9mUZfw4Zns&t=1036
PC Gamer actually and it's only weapon crafting, no idea why he said armor

>>2129409
>no idea why he said armor
because he's a lying faggot

>>2129451
Very likely, I too hate the slavschizo.

Roguery is still the most egregiously shitty of all skills because it provides only the following things
>has do shitty quests that give bad rewards
>affects your relationship with lords for no gain
>affects your relationship with companions unless they're trash with no useful skills
>gives you SHIT troops with SHIT trees
>has you take over alleys in towns which don't mean anything and give middling revenue at best

the War Sails update with the stealth MIGHT add something for Roguery but i'm not very hopeful. Roguery should affect combat directly by giving you stealth skills and subterfuge that could actually give you a huge advantage, not fucking around with contraband. Shit like being able to place hidden troops on deployment, set up ambushes for enemy parties, assassinate on towns and on the field, bribe or extort people, and even set up the enemy's troops to betray them.

>>2129467
I disagree, Roguery is only shit because it's under the same attribute as Tactics, which is even worse for a player.

which one of you is this?
>the new expansion said that there was some sexual content. I love your games, but I will not be purchasing anything with adult content.


> am not judging your choices in life. But I have principals that I live by, and one of them is to remain faithful to my wife (and God), a part of that is not looking at other women, especially not naked ones.
>
>As for the violent content, there is a scripture that states:
>
>Ecc 7:16 Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
>
>I enjoy a good computer game, but would not be hacking or slashing in real life. For me it is not about religious suppression, but enjoying life within the boundaries God has set.
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/question-on-war-sales-game-content.466542/#post-9919447

>>2129470
it's described as a life path and not just a set of skills, it is retarded that it doesn't tie in to actual gameplay mechanics separate from dumbass quests and troops.

>>2129508
>You've learned about the ancient rite of Primae Noctis
Medieval cuck fantasy, take that shit to England where it belongs

>>2129522
that's a cuck fantasy if you're on the bottom, which I guess explains why you see it that way

>>2129574
American take

>>2129397
See here:
>>2129409
For weapons. I misremembered the armor perhaps, but it was something the devs specifically said was "impossible" on their forums and yet it existed as a mod for a bit
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX8fLKDU_As
IIRC they said the same about a weapon/armor upgrading system and that ALSO exists on the steam workshop.

>>2129409
Tbh, i would rather craft armor.

>>2129470
tactics "works" with medicine but nothing in it's tree matters, just the auto battle bonus that stops every infinite 60 vs 250 fight from killing 10 of your T6 units on auto because fuck you.

The Gender Inequality mod makes the game much more immersive.
You see the wives and daughters of lords bored out of their minds while their husbands are off to war, and you take the opportunity to play board games with them (which increases Charm and relations) and court them. Much better than meeting them in that armor on the field with them giving you the fluoride smile
I am now a master of Mu Torere.

Is there a benefit to castle raiding in Warband? Playing a Sarranid vassal with BaFloris_Ege, and I've taken to sieging down castles and just leaving them empty. AI takes time to collect an army to retake the castle, and I'm fast (lolcav, lmao10pathfinding) so I can easily take a second castle before they've even reclaimed the first. The AI seems somewhat preoccupied with taking their castles back, which gives us some breathing room to raid elsewhere/take other castles or cities/focus on a second enemy, but I'm not sure if it's actually doing any attrition or just making the AI chase its tail for a bit.

>>2130013
you are making the AI bleed money.
now play with full dmg.

>>2114626 (OP)
WF&S for Bannerlords when?

>>2129683
>buttons that do nothing but change stats
If Taleworlds actually released something like this you would instead be giving them endless shit for it

>>2130026
>warband
>making the AI bleed money
Excuse me?

>>2130127
>Lord have limited amount of money... straight from script again... as mentioned above it costs and here is where it subtracts the money and checks if they got enough money to pay for it.
> (gt, ":hiring_budget", ":reinforcement_cost"),
> (val_sub, ":cur_wealth", ":reinforcement_cost"),
>Lords always gain 750 money each week.
>Marshall/King always gain 1750 money each week.
>And then it is "Fief" income added.
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/singleplayer-campaign-info.128730/

>>2130316
>Lords always gain money each week
Okay?

>>2130340
>Lords can only recruit when in Town/Castle that is not under siege.. or has been under siege last 6 hours.
>Lords pay gold for units, here is the list straight from script, Hard Campaign makes things so much cheaper.
> reinforcement_cost_easy = 600
> reinforcement_cost_moderate = 450
> reinforcement_cost_hard = 300
>
>Lords Number of recruitment.
>Easy = 0-1 per day
>Normal = 1 per day
>Hard = 1-2 per day
>Marshal = +1 Per day

>>2130126
I would be quite happy actually. I loved the feature in VC and in some Warband modules. Its a great end game money sink, it makes sense in the world and adds a reason to go into the town scenes now.
That being said, thats far too complex for Bannerlord devs and actually adds enjoyment outside of battles so its just not going to happen.

>>2130375
>Actually I wouldn't call them hacks and shitty developers for making a halfbaked system
>now let me call them shitty developers incapable of making such a system based on nothing at all
The absolute lack of introspection

>>2129683
>I misremembered the armor perhaps
you lied about the armor you mean.
>IIRC they said the same about a weapon/armor upgrading system and that ALSO exists on the steam workshop.
more lies or will you provide proof this time?
lmao i didn't even notice weapons in your first post and only saw armors so i called you a lying faggot.

>>2130387
>https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2955909085
There you are. Its chink jank but it is a good end game sink for cash. I think I had 40 million denars and after upgraded my equipment totally I was left with like 10 or less because I used Warbandlord which fucks with armor effectiveness and therefore cost.
>>2130384
I mean, they did away with majority of the systems from Warband and the systems they didn't get rid of, they botched. You have to use roughly 16 mods to be on par with Warband, just base Warband. If you want a vanilla + warband experience than the list gets significantly longer due to the amount of tweaks you need to have.
The only areas I think they made better, or just side graded were
>notable missions (with varying degrees of success)
>Hideouts
>Town/village scenes, which are basically never used
I don't really expect much from TW in regards to Bannerlord. They dropped the ball all the way through development, continuously fucked shit up through "EA", and dumbed down the game into a glorified battle sim where its previous entry had better formations anyway.

>>2129098
>2.traits should have bigger bonuses/world effects to make gaining and keeping them matter.
That reminds me, VC had a mechanic where enemy lords with bad reputations would scare your lower tier troops and could cause them to flee, while good natured lords had higher morale. Why did TW do away with this?

>>2130396
>they did away with systems that didn't exist in the framework Bannerlord was built on
Do you actually know how dumb that makes you sound?

>>2130400
They did away systems that were in the previous entry and its DLC's, which expanded upon them. The fact you cannot grasp this is truly astounding.

>>2130126
>buttons that change stats with cosmetics... le bad!
>sliders that change stats with cosmetics...le good!
the armor smithing mod still did the RNG chance of buckbroken-masterwork quality modifiers. The whole system worked and was on par with taleworlds overbaked weapon smithing system. That they didn't make it is incompetence, that they made it a skill instead of a merchant is bad game design.

With Fire and Sword
>custom troop trees
>weapon commissioning
>armor commissioning
rudimentary but serviceable. All missing in the big shiny new game with the GUI's MODS USED TO ADD THEM

>>2130420
It doesn't change the cosmetics you braindead gaslighting retard

>tfw 40 fps looking at the map in Shokuho
i don't want to upgrade...
>tfw the seconds you have to wait until the game realizes you won the battle buck broke me off warband
>tfw bannerlord has fucked up morale system due to the stupid perk that makes t3+ troops immune to moral dmg so you end up with a lone horseman most of the battles
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>2130421
>t...t...the mod didn't do what taleworlds should have hard enough! I...i...it only did what they said couldn't be done, replicate the system they had in prior games in the new one

thermonuclear cope

>>2130443
I'd reply to you, but not even Alan Turing could figure out what the fuck you're on about

>>2130444
>I'm from reddit
shocking

>>2130421
Warband actually had a mechanic to set custom meshes based off weapon modifiers. There's a sword in native that has a unique rusty model when the weapon has the Rusty modifier
If you utilized that + VC weapon improvement system you'd have a better custom weapon system than bannerlord

>>2130526
>Warband actually had a mechanic to set custom meshes based off weapon modifiers. There's a sword in native that has a unique rusty model when the weapon has the Rusty modifier

Wouldn't it be great if the Awful filthy mail textures on random armors corresponded to them being rusty or low quality instead of the model having bad textures for no reason?

>If you utilized that + VC weapon improvement system you'd have a better custom weapon system than bannerlord

Not to mention it'd make smithing a little more viable instead of needing the pugio exploit to be good at all. Just fix shitty weapons for a profit and to grind the skill, and also use that to augment/improve low tier troops for cheaper.

>try horse archer playthrough with RBM
>immediately turn off the "realistic" fire rate nonsense made by someone who's never shot a bow
>still immensely cucked compared to speedrun 4 fun of the basegame
>get the 3 perks to unfuck horse archery
>can now hit a looter at 20 yards in the torso 90% of the time
>no worlds left to conquer.jpg
>gaining 1-2 archery experience per combat shooting guys in the back chasing cavalry
>otherwise back to the basegame but my custom horse archers realistically suck more against anything with a modicum of armor

I'm fading fast, I've done my yearly heavy cavalry run to the vassal level and now did the "bandit" caravan raider playthrough to a grand total of 26 roguery experience. What do (you) do for a change of pace?

>>2130758
Full infantry Sturgia run. I know you can make their cav work apparently since they are the best against Battannian noble archers due to their armor and shields unlike cataphracts but I never put the theory to the test.

>>2130758
>RBM
that's your problem. you should have played with warbandlord.
>>What do (you) do for a change of pace?
>woo or rape Rhagaea to have an heir with her
>marry Ira as a first wife to have a claim on the imperial throne
>marry Corein to have an archers captain
>marry a bunch of Vlandian women for the sexo accent
>build up an army of cataphracts
>join simps
>eliminate Khuzaits
>switch to combined arms for the rest of the run
Armagan is truly correct. The Empire is the best faction.
the other fun run is going with the Aserai.
you don't even have to bother with their noble troops.
the only downside is how unsightly dark they are.
i can't even imagine how boring going with Sturgia against the Khuzait will be since their cav is shit or even the Nords when you pirate the dlc since they lack cav.

>>2130758
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ATn8NqNzI

I hunted down the head of every kingdom and ransomed them by clan level 4. It was a different grind but by the time I finished sitting in castles and breaking armies on the walls was too boring so I didn't go past clan level 4.

You will always be outnumbered 2 to 1 at least and will have make use of your throwers like none other.

I only do rogue runs now and max END via blacksmithing. If my main dies I just play out whatever heir I have. Beating the Dragon Banner quest line the way it is supposed to be done ruins the replay value, but as I understand it most players just skipped the quest altogether so it never got nerfed. I remember giving them feedback in beta about adding mercenary factions or bandit trees for the player they never did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv4GrvbJyrM

>>2130526
>Bannerlord is bad because if and how Warband could have been good
Just neck yourself already

>>2130758
All the mods that "fix" archery just make it worse, just like Warband.

>>2130929
I think the real elephant in the room is that the archery really doesn't need fixing, and people who think it does are approaching it from a retarded standpoint. Maybe the game would benefit from a chance to practice skills to a small level, but that's about it.

>>2130937
People just don't want to admit that archers are superior to melee infantry even in real life.

>>2130939
>I just want to be a knight in shining armor without the risk of getting shot by arrows
yeah... that's basically just making mount & blade a completely different game

>>2130929
>>2130937
Archery doesn't need to be nerfed, it's armor that needs to be buffed.

>>2130954
Combat simulator chad
>>2130955
Musou virgin

>>2130939
>>even in real life.
>During the 3rd Crusade, Bahā'al-Dīn, Saladin's biographer, wrote that the Norman crusaders were:
>...drawn up in front of the cavalry, stood firm as a wall, and every foot-soldier wore a vest of thick felt and a coat of mail so dense and strong that our arrows made no impression on them... I saw some with from one to ten arrows sticking in them, and still advancing at their ordinary pace without leaving the ranks.72
http://myarmoury.com/feature_mail.html

>>2130925
You're on the verge of doing so once war sails comes out and is a massive pile of shit

>>2131004
You have it in complete inverse. People who want Bannerlord to be bad have their ego tied to the issue, while the same isn't true for people who just want good games. It's a massive ego blow to doomposters if it's good, but it's business as usual for hypers if it's bad.

>>2131001
Get this - archers can also wear mail armor and carry melee weapons.

>>2130955
The damage curve in Bannerlord is slightly silly. You could easily buff armor without much issue.

>>2131023
can they carry "proper" melee weapons though
a pike, a spear, a polearm or even a shield and mace in addition to their (cross)bows and quivers?
and can they be armoured as heavily as melee troops? i've never shot a bow or wore an armour so i've always wondered if archers have less armour because they're poor or because it hinders them.

>>2131034
It was the crown saving money by skimping out on contracted equipment. The famous English longbowmen were supplied with brigandines, splints, and sallets with neck standart. That's not exactly minimal as far as armor goes. Keep in mind they also shot longbows with heavy draw weights.

>>2131048
>Keep in mind they also shot longbows with heavy draw weights.
so does heavy armour hinder them or not?

>>2131048
English longbowmen were something of an exception. In most of Europe archers were typically composed of the poorer lower class who couldn't afford good armor.

>>2131060
>English longbowmen were something of an exception.
Were they?

>>2131066
Yes.

>>2131066
Yes, and that's why I took the example. The thing that prevented archers from being armored was money more than anything else. Would you have 20 guys with bows or 1 armored guy with a bow?

>>2131067
>>2131069
I thought the only thing exceptional about them was the fact that the english crown basically forced peasants to train with bows

>>2131054
Arm, shoulder and hand armor genuinely does, other types don't really hinder it more than they do any other movement. Some helmets can make it hard to see what you're shooting. There's some examples of troops that used heavy armor, bows, and melee weapons. It's a money issue.

>>2131077
>Arm, shoulder and hand armor genuinely does
>It's a money issue.
which is it AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>2131083
So it has to be 6000% one or the other? The way it seems is that even 100% one or the other would probably be too unclear for you.
You can wear pretty heavy armor and shoot a bow, but shooting a bow with pauldrons and gauntlets is pretty cumbersome.

>>2131101
but don't arms get injured the most in battles?
so arm armour is super important?
so fielding a 100% archer army is a handicap?
and that anon who claims archers are superior to melee troops in every way is wrong?

>>2131108
>in every way
There you go gaslighting again

>>2131076
It always depends on what you're contrasting with. In some ways, they aren't an exception in this. In other ways, they are. I'm sure some of the contract armor given to some longbowmen was shit due to light coffers. There's exceptions within exceptions on any broad topic like this.

>>2131108
Are you going to point out that carrying a bow and spear is more weight than just one or the other? Come on now. Nitpicking that anon's statements is just another form of concession. Try to engage with his point while arguing against it or have the humility to realize you're unable to.

>>2131110
then just remove it. being hindered by arm armour in addition to not really damaging people in good armour doesn't make them >superior to melee infantry or >able to wear [heavy] mail armour
>>2131114
>Are you going to point out that carrying a bow and spear is more weight than just one or the other?
no. not being able to wear heavy armour on your arms without hindrance makes archers not >superior to melee infantry

>he can't greentext
leddit, please

>>2131127
Ahh, I got it. You don't have a great grasp of what the word "superior" means. That's the reason you're unable to actually address the topic in a sane way.

>>2131127
I see where the actual issue is, now. I'll point something else out.
>you're wrong
>have the humility to realize you're unable to [argue against the idea]
what's the difference with these statements?

I'll even make it slightly easier.
>you're wrong
>you're unable to [argue against the idea]
What's the difference? I'm asking because I meant one (and definitely only one) of these things.

>>2131006
Copium logic, makes sense you're huffing shit if you honestly believe these retarded Turks are going to make the game better after half a decade of literally nothing

>>2131034

Some armor is ok, light brigandine for example was the standard for "professional" archers in the middle ages. However, eanything above that will be too restrictive, shooting bows and especialy reloading crossbows takes a low of muscle and fatigue, if you see any game where there are people in full plate armor shooting arrows just assume the devs are retarded and did 0 historical research.

>>2131154
You're missing the mark to the degree that projection is the most reasonable explanation. If it's shit, nothing in my life changes. I'm excited to find out how it'll turn out.

>>2131034
>a pike, a spear, a polearm or even a shield and mace in addition to their (cross)bows and quivers?
Maybe on the ground, in their supply line, or in the case of crossbowmen the professionals were usually two or three man teams with one having more significant melee arms
>and can they be armoured as heavily as melee troops? i've never shot a bow or wore an armour so i've always wondered if archers have less armour because they're poor or because it hinders them.
No, if you look at any period historical illustrations in the 15th century they'll have different combinations of helmet, body protection usually brigandine, and sometimes leg and/or arm but never sabatons or gauntlets. Also the type of helmet is important so helmets that have more facial protection like nasals will get in the way of bow draws which is why you see a lot of them wearing sallets

>>2131203
A lot of people are missing the idea that a war is not just battles. It's pretty cumbersome to carry a spear and a longbow on campaign. Carrying just one of them is annoying. I believe mongols often carried both a spear and a recurve bow, but they were on horseback, and that's a recurve bow.

>>2131138
>superior
>better than average or better than other people or things of the same type
how does being unable to wear as heavy of an armour and not being able to carry a polearm except in a defensive position better than melee infantry, mr. saneanon?
>>2131145
he pulled his idea out of his ass. perhaps because archery dominates in m&b.
he did not bother supporting his idea except with the claim that archers can wear the strong armour that can stop arrows and carry other weapons too. one of the points turned out to be false while the other is pending.

>>2131228
>how does being unable to wear as heavy of an armour and not being able to carry a polearm except in a defensive position better than melee infantry, mr. saneanon?
What are you responding to and how is this a response to it? You've lost the plot, there's no other way about it.

>>2131231
>What are you responding to
your >arguments here >>2130939 and here >>2131023
>You've lost the plot, there's no other way about it.
projecting now, are we?

>>2131228
You're not getting it AT ALL
>(1) you're wrong
>(2) you're unable to [argue against the idea]
What's the difference?
I have no reason to believe (1) other than the fact that (2) KEEPS HAPPENING. Stop even trying at this point. Stop arguing against the claim that's just provocative matter-of-fact statement that's not even elaborated. Especially if you're really not even addressing the claim. Your recollection of the conversation is also incorrect.

>>2131203
>can they be armoured as heavily as melee troops?
>The pictures say no
I see

>>2131250
I didn't make those arguments you absolute dipshit. That isn't me.

You didn't answer the sanity check question either.
What are you responding to and how is this a response to it?
This is a sanity check. Answer in your own words and don't use the word "superior."

>>2131212
Not to mention those men were mounted and those bows are carried in their own holsters. The Polish hussars did something similar where their horse was adorned with an arsenal of bow, arrows, different hafted weapons like czekan or maces, swords, shields, pistols, and carrying a lance
>>2131261
For infantry I'd say anything you can't carry without holding it is a primary weapon such as a polearm, gun, crossbow, or bow
Anything you can carry on your person would be more like a secondary like swords axes maces daggers etc

>>2131275
>anything you can't carry without holding it is a primary weapon such as a polearm, gun, crossbow, or bow
Do you live in a video game?

>>2131286
Where do you think we are retard? It's a fucking video game general

>>2131295
This is /mbg/ and you clearly aren't operating on Mount & Blade mechanics if you can't carry any of those things without holding them

>>2131262
>That isn't me.
then who are you and when did you join the conversation?
i'm talking to 2 anons. one who made the 2 posts i've quoted and the one telling me i can't argue for shit even though the other anon isn't better so i'm a good match for him.
>>2131255
>Especially if you're really not even addressing the claim
i've posted a link to a historical source saying that arrows don't damage people in strong armours. isn't this addressing the claim?
then he claimed the things i wrote about to you in my previous post and anons said no.
i've linked his claims here >>2131250
>Stop arguing against the claim that's just provocative matter-of-fact statement that's not even elaborated.
how do we bring /mbg/ back from the dead without arguing with shitposters?

>>2131298
>then who are you and when did you join the conversation?
I joined to point out that you've lost the plot.
That sanity check was on my statement by the way. I'm trying to make you disprove that you're insane, but you can't do that. You're unable to coherently explain what you're arguing against, let alone why. That's all anyone has to know. You have no idea what you're saying.

>>2131311
>>you're guilty until proven innocent
nah
>>You're unable to coherently explain what you're arguing against
i literally linked you his >arguments.
perhaps you're him shitposting to try and distract anons from your stupid claim that archers are superior to melee infantry even irl.

>>2131318
>courtroom standards
I think you're confusing slogans for arguments now. I'm giving you a very fair and reasonable way of showing you haven't lost the plot. Every post is empirical evidence you've lost the plot.
Do you understand why I'm asking you to explain it instead of linking it?

>>2131324
>Every post is empirical evidence you've lost the plot.
nah
>I'm asking you to explain it instead of linking it
>please make an argument for me
nah. make your own argument, bowboy.

>>2131340
I'm taking it that you don't understand but you're afraid to say that. I don't know why you're that way, it's not completely obvious. I'll gladly elaborate then.

It's already heavily implied I question how you understand the situation. If you link it, this does nothing to explain how you understand the situation. You're only pointing to the situation I already suspect you might have interpreted very strangely. I'm asking for output that's more clearly from your mind. I want to understand the logic you're operating under, because I am under reasonable suspicion you're not actually operating under logic.

In other words, you linking to that post doesn't answer the question. I need to see if the problem is me not seeing the reasoning, you not having any reasoning, or if it's communication.
>What are you responding to and how is any of this a response to it?
Based on this interaction, it really seems like it was the right question to ask even if you didn't answer. The evidence seems to point to the idea that you have no real reasoning and you're just letting out the first emotion you have to any given post.

>>2131350
ok then, since you bothered to type all that i'll humor you and assume you're not really bowanon.
you want this question answered
>>2131311
>You're unable to coherently explain what you're arguing against
?
i am arguing against the idea that archers are a superior unit to melee infantry.
what happened from the start:
>see an anon claiming that archers are superior to melee infantry
>natural assumption of the bow vs armour eternal debate
>i link him a primary source saying that arrows can't really dmg heavily armoured troops
>he counters that bowmen can wear heavy armour and carry melee weapons so they're the superior unit [for their versatility]
>i ask anons if they can indeed wear heavy armour like melee infantry since archers are always depicted with lighter armour and i don't have enough knowledge about the subject
>turns out it hinders them
>thus, one of his counterpoints is wrong
>the other is still up in the air since archers might have a polearm or a shield on the ground while they're defending a position and one anon said professional crossbowmen were a team of three with one of them more melee focused

>>2127801
I think sultanate of rum means "ruler of romans" and later mehmed called himself caesar of rome

>>2131360
There's 3-6 complete non-sequiturs there. Do you really want me to count them?
I'll just point out what I see as the biggest discrepancy.

>i link him a primary source saying that arrows can't really dmg heavily armoured troops
>turns out it hinders them
Notice that you're talking about many, many different things here? You call them heavy armor, but you have no reason to believe the primary source was talking about the hindering type of armor, nor do you have any reason to believe that that's a reasonable rebuttal to the original claim.

There's a claim about heavy armor in the source --> Armor A
There's a claim about hindering type of armor --> Armor B
There's a claim about armor that longbowmen did wear --> Armor C

Thinking that A and B are equivalent but A and C aren't is pretty selective, no? B and C might also be equivalent, but it's a bit harder to explain why that throws a wrench into your argument.

>>2131372
>sultanate of rum means "ruler of romans"
It means Sultanate of Rome

TW should focus on making new fire and sword game set in 16th-17th century. They can even make turkish propaganda by showing golden age of ottomans

TW should focus on slowly improving Bannerlord into the best game of the decade without adding feasts and other shit they scream for so I can watch the doomers in this general slowly degenerate into utter madness

>>2131377
>but you have no reason to believe the primary source was talking about the hindering type of armor
there are other articles in the site describing the heavy mail of old.
we have modern tests of arrows vs mail from youtubers and the mail always fails. how do we reconcile modern tests with primary sources? thicker mail or double mail.
we do know thick mail is constrictive like the one used in pic related avantail. it might have been even thicker since bows did no significant dmg in historical accounts but the arrow did go through this particular aventail.
>Double mail is mentioned in many sources. Usamah describes a Frankish knight wearing "double linked mail" who was dealt multiple blows in the back by a Turkish warrior with a sword but remained unharmed.51 Carpini recommends "double mail" to resist the armour piercing arrows of the Mongols.52 ffoulkes wrote that "double mail" appears in various French inventories under entries such as haubert doublier, haubert a maille double, and haubert clavey de double maille.53
http://myarmoury.com/feature_mail.html
>nor do you have any reason to believe that that's a reasonable rebuttal to the original claim.
not being able to wear as heavy armour on the arms according to other anons is reason enough to counter bowanon claim that archers can wear as heavy of an armour.
>Thinking that A and B are equivalent but A and C aren't is pretty selective, no?
the mail that stops arrows in the historical account is not the regular mail available for any troop.
and archers can't wear heavy arm armour because it hinders them.
not being able to wear heavy arm armour already discounts them from being heavy armoured.

>>2131407
What if I told you that this entire line of reasoning was non-sequitur, and that's the entire reason I'm asking you to explain what you're really arguing against? You still haven't done that, by the way. You've just explained the sequence of events. That's not the claim you're arguing against.
I almost gave up, but now you're giving good reasoning for your viewpoint. What's the claim you're trying to disprove?

Possibly the heaviest armored archers of the medieval period were the French scottish guard
>there were only 50 of them out of 75 men under 25 scottish nobles
>they were just armored somewhat like the men at arms under said nobles
>they were mounted in the style of the Compagnie d'ordonnance
>they likely as much had crossbows because lol lmao
>open faced helmets, no gauntlets, 3/4 legs, single handed swords, riding horses that weren't supposed to be used in battle
>supposed to work in tandem with 25 nobles and 25 men at arms with polearms and the panopoly of a knight

The real world maxima of equipment for a foot archer exists in the historical record and it exists to make them serve as hybrid infantry/skirmish cavalry/MP style bodyguards until the full white harness knights come to support them.

At the same time the Milanese cavalry at the Battle of Verneuil in 1424 showed how full white harness was the end of any form of heavy archer edge on armored cavalry or heavy infantry back into just being an important component of a viable field army.

>>2131412
anon are you autistic or just a jeet?

>>2131412
>I'm asking you to explain what you're really arguing against? You still haven't done that, by the way
i thought i wrote that at the start.
>i am arguing against the idea that archers are a superior unit to melee infantry
>What's the claim you're trying to disprove?
anon made 2 claims to support his statement, the first is archers can wear the mail described in the historical account (strong/heavy/thick/double mail).
and they can carry melee weapons just like melee infantry (versatility).
to disprove anon, i either have to come up with another claim and support it then the discussion will be derailed to i said he said and which claim has "stronger" proof or i can disprove his claims.
anons disproved the strong mail theory for me since heavy armour hinders archers.
the other issue is archers being able to carry [non-worn] melee weapons such as polearms.
i await other anons to disprove it for me since i can only think of archers having polearms while in a defensive position.

>>2131423
>anon are you autistic or just a jeet?
Because I have a goal in mind. Why do you think I'm harping on with the same question?

>>2131426
>i am arguing against the idea that archers are a superior unit to melee infantry
What does this even mean? No seriously. This is what I'm getting at the whole time. What does this mean?

>>2131412
>>2131428
>>2131429
Non-sequitur

>>2131389
yes whatever gay and retarded niche improvements you care about I'm sure would make this game a huge success

>>2131431
that's a reasonable take, but you unwittingly proved my point

>>2131434
Still non-sequitur. Also I'm not who you think I am lmao

>>2131429
>What does this even mean? No seriously. This is what I'm getting at the whole time. What does this mean?
i already wrote that when i first humored you.
>>2131360
>>see an anon claiming that archers are superior to melee infantry
>>natural assumption of the bow vs armour eternal debate
>>i link him a primary source saying that arrows can't really dmg heavily armoured troops
>>he counters that bowmen can wear heavy armour and carry melee weapons so they're the superior unit [for their versatility]
he either argued that bows beat armour which i first thought but then he argued for their versatility to cover 2 roles.
the historical account counters the bows beat armour and anons countered part of his versatility argument since they can't really wear heavy armour on their arms at least.

>>2131428
because you feel underequippped to argue in English and having thoroughly lost an internet argument are now just sperging out bitch bastard style.

Archers did exist as hybrid infantry and that is how they were commonly used in the hundred years war. They were not the equal of men at arms or billmen(the common infantryman loadout) in armor, arms, or equipment. That level of archer was also a major investiture of resources; the french in the 15th-16th century were supposed to have a standing army that was 50% mounted archers (dragoon style) but we have period shitposts revealing that the arms ordinances had completely broken down if they ever were properly held to in the first place, so the "archers" were just soldiers in a standing rabble due to the expense as the force ballooned up from thousands to 24k by the 1480's

>>2131436
I assumed you were a random guy. Was I wrong?

>>2131439
See, you're just wrong BECAUSE you're annoyed and going along with it. You don't have a clue what I'm getting at.

>>2131442
>are you insane saar?! you realize you are the insane sar???????
do (you) have a clue what you think you're supposed to have gotten at?

>>2131438
>natural assumption
Is it? Or is the entire reason the conversation went down like it did originally because that's not a natural assumption. You even stated that what he argued later was versatility. What if I told you I have no reason to believe he argued either, and neither do you.

You made good points for the idea that it's not that clear-cut. The parts where you go full stupid is when you assume what that vague statement means.

>>2131442
>You don't have a clue what I'm getting at.
You aren't getting at anything at all, you haven't made a single point outside of claiming everyone is arguing with you incorrectly. You have no argument at all.

>>2131445
You're actually correct. I've just been asking what are you actually claiming and why. Why would I do that kind of a thing?

>>2131443
No, which is why I'm asking questions instead of making statements.

>nta btw sar, but I hadn't yet said that thing you concluded by what I said even though that was the conclusion but I never said it so you can't prove I thought that so I didn't lose the internet argument you made an assumption and while yes if I had said the thing what I said is the argument for then you'd be correct but you see I had not yet said it so I am not wrong and you are in fact the silly one

glad we cleared this up. Archers are still underequipped foot infantry and worse light cavalry in their most historically armed and armored form. Armor and polearms are important and the 2nd quiver tradeoff to carry a shield to not totally suck in melee of M&B is an ok simulation of reality.

>>2131448
I say it's nothing, you say it's nothing.
Why are you buttmad at it like this?

>>2131444
>Is it?
yes. there is a big debate about bows/ranged weapons vs armour that always comes up.
>You even stated that what he argued later was versatility
maybe he did it because i cornered him with the primary source.
>What if I told you I have no reason to believe he argued either, and neither do you.
then what did you think he argued for?
i assume you have not been around historical games discussions for long?
this argument always pops up.

>>2131451
>I'm not mad sar
>failed 2 sophist to prove how not mad he is
the whole point of miring someone down in sophistry is that a 3rd party thinks you won and the person you're arguing against steps off the point they're hammering you on. Well you didn't on either, you got more anons to actually nta btw you and no one has moved away from the fact you are in fact dumb an wrong about missile troops in the historical context.

>>2131454
Yeah, that's really what I was getting at. You kind of assumed too much. I was hoping this would be a short exchange. I'd argue that your assumption that something else was up prolonged this exchange way too much. I can understand being a little guarded.

>>2131456
Either that or he's trying to pull a "i was just trolling"

>>2131456
You've gone full schizo at this point. I suggest not getting mad at nothing, but I doubt you'll actually listen.

>>2131458
Nah, both of you are completely wrong on this.

>>2131462
That's exactly what someone who just called out would say.

>>2131462
>that's not me sar
>also everyone else is wrong about that "other" guy being an idiot
>I can't elaborate on how, but...
curious