Thread 2124591

what went wrong?

Could be worse.

Nothing, DoW2 was perfectly fine and to disagree is pure contrarianism.

>>2124591 (OP)
failed to properly port company of heroes mechanics. Weapon teams were clunky, cover was clunky, garrisoned buildings were clunky, melee combat did not work with the system.

>literally no base building
>small-ass maps
>tiny pop cap
>cosmetic DLC
DoW2 is garbage and is objectively worse than DoW3.

>>2124591 (OP)
It was a puzzle game masquerading as an RTS.
Speaking from a strictly chad-singleplayer perspective, since multiplayer people are sexual deviants:
All you did in DoW 2 and the DLCs was to go from one corridor to the next, only stopping to solve set pieces. Advance forward, stop for cover, kill the scripted enemies attacking you with either the right weapons or convenient armament lying about, rinse repeat.
The story was serviceable, Retribution in particular had some good story beats and interesting characters. But it was still a puzzle game.
There was some minor RTS stuff in skirmishes (and MP) but not enough to satisfy any actual RTS player, as evident by the popularity of the Last Stand mode, something only RPG players enjoyed.
>What went wrong?
The game should have been marketed as an RPG and under a new title, not Dawn of War.

>force commander
>The Litany of Litany's Litany rare armor +200 HP
>The Gun of More HP +120 HP
>The Chainsword of more HP +120 HP
>The Equipment of More HP +180 HP
>maxed out HP tree
>less HP than termagaunt
I love level scaling bros, I love it so much

>>2124591 (OP)
very bad multiplayer balance
otherwise great, and Elite mod fixed that part
oh yeah I barely played the singleplayer, literally who cares about beating computer challenge setups made by the devs

The only thing it did wrong was set the precedent for successful major formula changes from the previous game that made them think they could pull off changing it into a moba.

>>2124691
>didn't go for an HP Armor of Litany of HP Litany of HP
>complains about not having enuff HP
evry tiem

>>2124591 (OP)
Nothing, it was better than the first one.

>>2124740
I played both yesterday and DoW2 is just too small scale to keep me interested. And there's no 4v4 to inflate the scale a bit, just 3v3 which is still very small scale. Even 3v3 with just orks is still too fucking small.
DoW1 on the other hand is perfect.

>>2124591 (OP)
DoW2 is basically a MOBA. you got 1 hero and like 3 worthless units and no buildings. Dogshit ass game.

>>2124591 (OP)
still waiting for Eternal mod update

>>2124692
>literally who cares about beating computer challenge setups made by the devs
90% of the RTS """player""""base just sits in base for 30 minutes until they can roll over the easy AI. They do this for 10-20 hours and then go back to whatever normieslop they play

>>2124709
>everyone says that DoW3 is a MOBA
>look at it
>isn't a MOBA

>>2124591 (OP)
In simple terms the gameplay requires precise inputs quickly but the game was a technical disaster and made it much more cumbersome to play than it's design supported.

>>2124591 (OP)
It had it's strengths, the cover system, better damage types, co-op campaign, characters are great. I have good memories going through the campaign with a buddy on primarch diffulty, trying to figure out good builds or sometimes meme builds like turning cyrus into melee while trying to max out the score of every mission.

>>2124591 (OP)
They trimmed away CoH mechanics instead of building on them. Biggest flaw was how points worked, they should have at least had listening posts to stop the Benny Hill nonsense.
Campaign was great (in Co-Op) until Retribution, which was pure ass except for a couple cool character moments.

>>2124643
That's not really what a puzzle game means.
>Retribution in particular had some good story beats
lmao, retribution easily had the worst story by the virtue of the fact that it had to work with every faction, making it generic and clunky

>>2124591 (OP)
they stripped everything out. the game is so minimalistic youre not left with much to do

Single player is diablo with 4 characters. or a simpler spellforce which is crazy

multiplayer is the lamest shit ever. No building, your tech is the same every time. No strategy or variety to army composition.

laughably small army size makes the lack of tech even more apparent cause youre always running the same 4 squads. the entire game is just microing your small ass army, its so fucking lame.

>>2125198
>90% of the RTS """player""""base just sits in base for 30 minutes until they can roll over the easy AI.
man who doesnt understand the basics of the genre assumes everyone else also doesnt

>>2124591 (OP)
It was a fantastic game and the only complaint is muh base building.

>>2124591 (OP)
Following the fourth fourty-minute long slogfest with some Orcish "boss battle", in which my speshmareens were thrown into the air like puppies a hundred times apiece, I rage quit, beat my mother, and burned my house down. Soulless game. Sign of the times.

>>2124603
It is not as good as the first game. I get annoyed at how many Warhammer games end up getting boiled down to a half assed CoH.

>>2125201
It’s a MOBA in the same way that C&C4 is. Either way, dogshit games that should have been released under different titles.

I just wanted dark crusade+ and I feel like that was neither an uncommon opinion nor a big ask

>>2124591 (OP)
No second attempt at making better Dark Eldar gameplay.

>>2125440
No, it was inferior to the first game in every possible way.

>>2125999
>AHHHHHHHHH I NEED TO PUT DOWN A TROOP PRODUCTION BUILDING MYSELF!!!!!!!!!

>>2125825
>I get annoyed at how many Warhammer games end up getting boiled down to a half assed CoH.
Is there more than DoW?

>>2126000
>ahhh there is only the main building and turrets
>ahhh i cant build a new main building if the first one is destroyed
>ahhh half the gameplay of 1 is removed from the game ahh save me niggerman

>>2126113
>AHHH I CANT PUT DOWN A HECKING BUILDING

>>2126119
>AHHH IM HECKING RETARDED

>>2124591 (OP)
I know this will not sway anyone's opinion here, and I personally like 1 better anyhow, but playing coop with my bro back in middle school is some of the fondest gaming memory I have, especially chaos rising.

>>2125825
Tf are you on about? What other game is Warhammer coh?

>>2125310
>to stop the Benny Hill nonsense.
You didn't play PvP

>>2126196
no one did it fucking sucked

everyone who had a problem with Dawn of War 2 has a problem with it because they wanted to play dawn of war 1 multiplayer, only prettier. That's it. it wasn't Dawn of War remastered.

they can bring up cover, or unit damage types, etc, but it's just the framing of "this isn't dawn of war: Soulstorm 2 with the mod that made things closer to codex"

>>2126238
I did and it was great because it was a game of tempo, unit preservation, and using aggression to perform squad wipes, something the AI was never able to figure out. PvP was miles above the retardation of PvE, and still is alive with Elite mod
Even the 2v2v2 is fun for divided attentions and the chaotic compeition between the three teams

>>2126311
lot of words to describe clicking on points with no ulterior strategy

>>2124591 (OP)
It needs to rape Fallout Tactics and consummate a rape baby that outperforms all other hybrids. All asymmetrical factions and zero balance to troll the haters. But you love it.

>>2125311
I could have also said "logic game" instead of puzzle. And yes that's exactly what DoW 2 is.
In DoW 1 I can approach a campaign mission multiple ways just by army composition and where I place my buildings, which buildings, and when to attack or not attack, often with multiple available attack vectors.
DoW 2 takes all of that away and railroads you through corridors. You can choose a loadout before a mission, but each mission is completely winnable no matter who or what you take to the fight. As long as you play the intended way (solve the map puzzles).

Retribution has the now legendary Exterminatus scene. That's a top tier story beat that has transcended the game it came from. And while subjective, I've really enjoyed the Freebootaz and Inquisition campaign.

>>2125311
>>2126782
In DoW1 you build your army and smash the enemy in pretty much the same way every mission
In DoW2 you have actual diversity in how you approach campaign missions because of wargear, the opportunity cost of bringing one character over another, and the perk system.
Yes you might need to toss a grenade on a garrison every once in a while, that does not make the game a puzzle.

>>2126311
DoW 2 played well in multiplayer but it was a bastard child of DoW1 and CoH.
There's none of the side tech tiers that buff your initial units at the cost of slowing down vehicles like DoW has, there's none of the tech skip options and choices that CoH has, no asymmetry in builder units or tech structures, they completely removed base dives because of the turrets and the only booming you can do is building generators at predetermined points.
If you actually played it in multiplayer it's not bad at all, especially with the commander choices adding a lot of variation between games, but I'm sure most people booted up a skirmish and decided they didn't want anything to do with it specifically because the AI is so ass.
Can't really blame the average player for not touching the multiplayer when skirmish has none of the cool fights because the AI is busy sending squads around the map to decap some random requisition point instead of trying to fight you.

>>2127002
>because the AI is busy sending squads around the map to decap some random requisition point instead of trying to fight you
but anon, that's the intended gameplay loop. The game is fundamentally flawed with this gay system, you get only a few squads instead of an army and somebody has to cap the points. So you get 1-2 units to fight at best and the rest is on map control duty, because pop cap is screeching at you for trying to have fun

>>2127108
oh and individual soldiers within a squad also take up population, so you can't play with regular guardsmen since they take too much population space for the combat value they put in

>>2124591 (OP)
Nothing, it is just different.

>>2126312
But I wasnt talking about DoW1

>>2127111
What? 2 plasma guards with Lord General or Commissar support can absolutely melt heavy infantry, and they are absolutely needed to tend to vehicles, even if you have a repair bunker

>>2127155
the meta is stormtroopers with hot upgrade

>>2127002
>There's none of the side tech tiers that buff your initial units at the cost of slowing down vehicles like DoW has
There are, those are the unit upgrades and tier 1.5 units
>>2126311
Elite mod is pretty great

>>2124591 (OP)
>DoW1 is basic but fun
>Let's make the sequel even more basic and less fun

>>2126986
>>2127138
2tards really think having 4 squads magically makes the game more involved despite your larger dow1 army having all the same functions

>>2127464
>despite your larger dow1 army having all the same functions
Oh god this, DoW2 MP sucks so much
DoW1 is basic as fuck, basically the party game of RTS, but at least is fun
CoH was the natural evolution of its formula
And for some reason they decided to strip anything from CoH and even parts of DoW1 and leave it just like that, adding nothing in return. DoW2 sucks the fun out of RTS.

>>2124591 (OP)
Games for Windows Live was such fucking cancer

>>2124591 (OP)
they assumed we wanted more

>>2127130
Yes, the only problem this game had is that they called it Dawn of War.

Not sure why Relic changed the formula after the success of 1

Then they changed it again and turned the third game into a MOBA, not even the new Iron Harvest devs acknowledge it

Ironically the beta for the game was amazing. Weapons were a lot more deadly, and heavy bolters in particular were vicious. Game got much worse come release because everyone became a sponge. Of course, you all ate if up because you are retarded. Just like you were too retarded to recognize 3 was better than 2.

>>2124691
>Easy: enemies deal 33% less damage
>Medium: enemies deal normal damage
>Hard: enemies deal 3x damage
>Primarch: enemies deal 5x damage

ffs, 2x was just too unbalanced I guess.

>>2124591 (OP)
This is a case of the fans just being really dumb.

>>2130531
When you play properly 5x damage is only barely enough to be a threat in the base game and completely meaningless in Chaos Rising. You just build Tarkus to be an immortal tank with a perpetual taunt. In CR he's invincible as long as he has mana and the Force Commander gives him infinite mana so damage becomes meaningless.

The campaign is fun in part because it's so easy to break it.

>>2130548
Chaos Rising completely changed the difficulty curves though. In Vanilla, harder just meant more incoming damage. Chaos Rising made it so even Primarch only has 2x incoming damage, but enemies have 2x as much HP.

>The campaign is fun in part because it's so easy to break it.
Sure you can break it by just having Cyrus skulk around for an hour sniping targets, but Thaddeus is basically dead weight on Hard or Primarch in Vanilla since he tends to die in the crossfire the moment he lands. Plus you're going to be equipping your best melee gear on FC so he's forced to contend with scraps.

>>2126194
>>2126004
Company of Heroes, which uses the same engine.

The issues with DoW 2 are as follows
>glitches
>UI/UX issues
>balance

If your complaint isn't one of these, you're a retard that's using the game as a vessel. The game would be one of the all-time great RTS games if it just had more polish.

>>2124591 (OP)
Simultaneously shoving three slightly above mediocre games (campaign, skirmish/MP, Last Stand) into a single package, instead of focusing on one thing and making it really great.