Thread 2129437

Advertising your DLC before the base game is released. Behold modern gaming.

Have you tried not playing Paradox games?

>>2129437 (OP)
why the fuck are these not in the base game? They're deliberately diluting the product

Paradox can't make intuitive or dynamic systems so all of these DLC's are just
>Added the "Prepare to Restore Rome" button followed by the "Rome Restored" gigabuff
>Added the "Fortify Gibraltar with level 10 fort" button
>Added the "France and Scotland alliance" button (diplomacy is barebones and AI doesn't even acknowledge it)

>>2129441
What alternatives do you recommend?

>be corpo game designer
>between all the stupid meetings and mandatory voluntold HR activities that suck up all your motivation, you manage to cook up a semi-functional game system
>get told by sales lead that you need to break up your game so they can sell DLCs
>push back and argue that the game would break if you split up core parts of it and take even longer to rebalance
>"just be a team player bro why are you being so difficult"
>concede
>big surprise, game is unbalanced trash on release
>denied raise during annual review because you're "not putting business needs first and foremost" and because the game bombed due to being an unbalanced trash
you cannot win with non-indie games

>>2129490
There's a fun game I found recently called "ms paint", I'd say it's a decent competitor to PDX games

>>2129471
Just following the Total War playbook.

>>2129437 (OP)
They're certainly... Interesting choices for DLC. Rome I get. But I can probably count on one hand the number of people interested in blobbing into N. Africa or Franco-Scottish relations unless that means England is OP as shit and you need this DLC to restrain them).

>>2130294
>Paradox
>you need to break up your game so they can sell DLCs
Hello, tourist.

>>2130582
Sounds like they're trying to sell alt-history.

>>2129488
kek

>>2129437 (OP)
>Across the pillars
>Content for Morocco and Castile
>Nothing for Portugal, Granada, Al-Andalus or even Spain
I'm pirating this shit.

>>2130606
>>Content for Morocco and Castile
>>Nothing for Portugal, Granada, Al-Andalus or even Spain
Nigger are you fucking serious? That actually pisses me off, what the fuck man?

>>2129488
This
>>2129471
This
>>2129437 (OP)
>MUH GLORY OF ROME DLC
Paradox knows that the player base for their new games is 90% plebbit historylets.
Playing Byzantium in EU4 at least made sense since it was a challenge about fighting the Ottos as a weak country. But in EU5 the Byzantines start out as the strongest power in Southeast Europe and all they have to do is just consolidate Anatolia.

>>2129437 (OP)
>waaah game companies are doing things i dont liiiiike waaaaaaaah
If it didn't work so well they wouldn't be doing it all the fucking time, dipshit.

>>2130309
For me, it’s Kid Pix

>>2132153
>"Game" companies should be more concerned with maximizing profits than making good games

The only measure of success being financial is why the entertainment industry/sector is such shit.

The quality of a game and how much money it makes are tangentially related at best

>>2132153
thats not how it works

>>2132307
That so?

the mark of a good game is being unable to convince people to exchange money for it

>>2132381
Please tell us how it works, anon.

>>2132398
Companies are incapable of tracking anything relating to their products or customers, so they just guess. Because doing that would be "economic planning", which is literally communism, and that's for NERDS!

>>2132401
>bunch of schizobabble about companies and economics
>literally didn't explain shit
I accept your concession. Profit really is the only meaningful measure of success in the end.

>>2132407
>reduced to namecalling
Kek

>>2129437 (OP)
Welcome to at least one decade ago.

>>2130990
>in EU5 the Byzantines start out as the strongest power in Southeast Europe and all they have to do is just consolidate Anatolia.
If paradox railroads the 1341 civil war it'll be more challenging than EU4 desu, but from the eceleb vids it seems that the civil war doesnt happen, so there wont be any case where you can get fucked because even assuming giga ottos/turks you'll always be able to have a stronger navy plus either Genoa or Venice as an ally

>>2130990
>But in EU5 the Byzantines start out as the strongest power in Southeast Europe
Not true at all, and you are clearly just as much of a historylet as Redditors. The 14th-century Byzantines were in full-blown decay and decline.

>>2130606
Based
>>2129490
Sailing the high seas

>>2132562
EU5 /=/ actual history

>>2132615
True, also it is funny how they call one of those DLCs an Auld Alliance, when this alliances only really springs up at this point when the game begins.

I think we'd all be better off if Sweden stopped existing.

If you complain about DLC in the current year you're either brown or a poorfag.
Or worse, both.

>>2132562
>>2132615
>>2132619
The main issue is that the main fuck ups that caused the collaspe would be pretty much impossible to force on the player even if they railroad the death of Andronikos III and the civil war (which imo they should). The player would have ZERO reason to ever ally the Ottomans as the Kantakouzenos/Nobility faction, or the Serbians and Bulgarians as the court/imperial faction, and even if the other side automatically gets those alliances, blocking the turks from crossing would be easy as would stalemating shitty slav levies aided by a few german knights, so the civil war would be over really quick before any major damage could happen. The player would also not switch between the Venetian and the Genovese alliance constantly, thus avoiding getting the navy fucked and losing his money.

Also guarantee that the DLC will have a "reform the Tagmata" decision to immediately give you a professional army

>>2132637
You are clearly as unimaginative and as illiterate as the PDX. Because all of the issues were already there when the game starts, it is not something that player can or can't avoid, it is already there.

>>2132643
in 1337, apart from the anatolian nobility being uppity theres nothing too severe for even a mediocre player. Irl issues of declining imperial authority and a succession crisis cant really fuck the player much in an EU style game were you are always in command of the country, and the succession crisis would also be incredibly unlikely to occur as Andronikos III was pretty young when he croacked in 1341 irl (which is also why i think they should just railroad his death).

Maybe they could fastrack the Hesychast debates, the zealots of Thessaloniki, guarantee Serbia and Bulgaria attacking you and guarantee the civil war in the first 10 years to give it the same level of challenge as EU4, but they're more likely to give the ottomans super sipahis and byz some maluses the AI will have no idea of how to mitigate/remove but the playerbase will have figured out by the ten year mark

>>2129471
How many of the last released Paradox products did you buy?

>>2132649
>in 1337, apart from the anatolian nobility being uppity theres nothing too severe
That is already quite a severe issue.
>Irl issues of declining imperial authority and a succession crisis cant really fuck the player much in an EU style game
Declining imperial authority was literally an incredibly severe issue, tied to factional politics at the court and reason why much of Anatolian nobility was getting uppity.
On top of that, the economy was already in quite severe decline and need to sustain the army and constant quables with trade republics was not aiding one bit.
>cant really fuck the player much in an EU style game
And as I said, you are just as unimaginative as PDX, you can easily model all these situations in game, you just need to put in actual effort.

>>2132653
>just as unimaginative as PDX
the issue isnt imagination, its performance. It'd be easy to make the nobles an issue by having CK style nobles, but if they do that they'd have to give them to every random umbutu fendege shithole in jalalabuntustan, so they'll just make it some modifier for simplicity's sake
Same shit with the madness of the Constantinople trade market at this time, they'd have to either include a far more advanced trade system globally or create some shitty minigame like the HOI4 power struggles
Best case scenario they'll make it so any sort of instability will cause a noble revolt until you can restore imperial authority, but its likely going to be a one and done disaster if even that

>>2132657
Which is why I call you unimaginative. You don't need to represent character at all. That is just level of PDXs lack of imagination. You can do all this perfectly well with the abstracted factional politics, like EU4 added and add even more on top. Make each faction be based in certain regions, make regions potentially flip between factions depending how you favour them or not, make culture impact the factional goals, do that for religion as well and much more.

>>2132661
maybe they can do something with the new social classes but its pointless to speculate on them till we actually get to play around with them. Do hope they at least give you a unique starting military reality, as the tagmata had been disbanded a few decades prior and there was no official replacement to those or a proper levy system

>>2132651
>last released
none, and you're part of the problem if you did

>>2132632
>Dude I'm so rich and white I enjoy getting robbed!
Statements dreamed up by non-white poor people.

>>2132752
Uh oh thirdie meltie

>>2132632
I am white (slavic) with steady income and I still refuse to buy new PDX stuff, because it is overpriced and shit anyway.

>>2129437 (OP)
CHUDS BTFO

>>2132798
how are chuds btfod by dickriding redditors riding corpo dick

>>2132810
Chuds think they’re entitled to developers hard work instead of paying extra for more content. They always reference
>muh expansions
But they don’t understand game development is way more expensive and tedious than it used to be. Redditors are just happy to have a game at all.

>>2132814
if they're so happy to have a game why are vicky 3 sales still so shit. they were happy to have that game too. they defended it's poor design decisions too.

>>2132773
>I am white slavic (gypsy)
There you go. Now you know for next time.

>>2132798
>downvoted
Go back
NIGGER

>>2132798
Plebbitor is right that steam actually requires more information about season passes nowadays so if they are already selling those they have to do it. Now selling season pass DLC before the game is even released is pretty retarded in general but steam is no going to stop it.

>>2132751
Damn. Why are you talking, then? And to who?

Do you stand outside, seething at people buying trendy shoes?

>>2132798
>People love the new content and new mechanics
Go tell that to the Stellaris fanbase.

>>2132814
Imagine paying for Paradoxslop in big 2025.
Couldn't be me.

>>2133968
>Number of seethers at Paradox that proved they have disposable income and a high performance PC - 0.
And this number isn't going to be incremented any time soon.

>>2133972
My PC is from 2020.
I can run Battlefield 6 on ultra.
I should not need that kind of PC to run a AA niche strategy game.
And you should never ever post again in this site.

>>2133974
>I can totally run this game
>but
>I also shouldn't need it for a game that actually tracks thousands of variables relating to the population of the entire world
>because it's "AA" or something
Been posting here longer than you've been alive, buddyretard. Try to make it more believable next time.

>>2133981
Please be a troll.

>>2132562
Retard the nanosecond that the player takes over the decline stops and centralized micromanaging of everything starts.
The only thing that matters is the resources available on the start date. It's irrelevant if IRL the Byzantines were on the road to collapse and a couple decades after the start date the Ottomans would turn the tables and become decisively stronger than them. That's not going to happen in game because even a shit player is capable of beating a smaller country in Paradox games.

>>2133985
So are you a tourist, a fresh mint on the verge of getting filtered, casual shitposter? Or you're just here to argue for benefits for yourself? I'm curious.

>>2133962
hey reddit spacing, /vst/ isn't your gay retarded echo chamber for nigger faggots. I can say whatever the fuck I like, and as someone who put in thousands of hours into EU4 (pirated), my opinion is as relevant as yours - the paypig's.
>And to who?
you, the dumb nigger who enables this predatory business practice. If people stop buying and accepting multiple day 1 DLC content locks, paradox will stop doing it. You fucking shitskin retard

>>2133981
>I also shouldn't need it for a game that actually tracks thousands of variables relating to the population of the entire world
This would be a hardware related problem maybe back in 1998. You have no idea what you're talking about

>>2134166
Tell me more about your extensive knowledge of coding, then.

>>2134165
>my opinion is as relevant as yours - the paypig's
Well, that's just cope on your part. I had devs respond to me, and variations of my ideas made into the games.

>predatory business practice
Yes, devs wanting to get paid for their devtime is so predatory. Maybe the entire industry should embrace the crunch, no overtime pay, and spending millions of dollars and years in development for unknown pay off. lmao

>>2129437 (OP)
As long as they're easily pirateable I really don't care

>>2134185
Every game is easily pirateable nowadays unless it's a multiplayer game with always online and anticheat.

>we HAVE to have quarterly dlc to keep supporting our games for 10 years
does anyone actually want a paradox game to be supported for 10 years?

>>2134174
I have worked on multiple games as a programmer and some of them had literal tens of thousands of variables. And they had a negligible performance impact, because the games weren't coded by jeets.
The problem is clausewitz engine and the way it doesn't utilize multiple cores efficiently, it was designed for single core usage and only later did they slap on some jeet tweaks to haphazardly utilize more cores. This and the way they coded the game to process nearly all information in an instant on every tick results in shit performance even on beastly machines made from the newest components. You could run clausewitz games on NASA mega giga nigga computers and it would still run like shit and choke itself to death by 1944 in HoI4.

>>2134177
>I had devs respond to me
I bet you did, reddit spacing man
>Yes, devs wanting to get paid for their devtime is so predatory.
Yes, selling a chair without legs and demanding more money for each leg is indeed a predatory scummy business practice that should be universally shunned and ostracized. Yes, unironically. As crazy as that sounds, it is unironically the case.

>>2134267
Ah, you're one of those dipshits.

>>2134269
>reddit spacing
Lurk for two years before posting, newfag.

>>2134269
>a chair without legs
Funnily enough, Paradox has long stopped releasing non-functional games. So what are you referring to? Are you upset about reworks?

>>2130990
>EU5 the Byzantines start out as the strongest power in Southeast Europe
That's really overstretching it
1337 byz start is just you skipping first(two) wars with ottos
Which is big help but lmao anon
If they put you in(historical) debt and force a lot of bad events it's still going to be a challenge
Although i am very pessimistic after goytubers just rolled throughout whole continent in 100 years

>>2134260
I'd welcome more frequent releases if they were linked to engine improvements that could allow for substantially more optimized/precise/in-depth gameplay or simulation. I don't know if the rest of the community shares my view though, especially those who finance PDX the most.

>>2133972
:)
Paradox engines are decent but wayyy unoptimized.

>>2134344
Even IF Clausewitz was the most optimized engine in the world, it wouldn't matter. Just like you can't solve traffic by adding more lanes, the issue is more complicated than that.

>>2129437 (OP)
>Byzaboo DLC in the time period they were entirely destroyed and their culture erased, forever
>Castile/Morocco DLC, a relevant conclusion to the ongoing reconquista
>SCOOOOTLAAAAAND DLC, for what pvrpose?
I feel like paradox games model genocidal wars... and what modern people would call genocidal wars.
So, rise of Islam, conquest of Iberia, Ottomans, Reconquista, and so on, but
the Hundred Years war?
the crowns of the British Isles?
the HRE?
the Scandianvian crowns?
It never feels right with those ones.

>>2130583
True. They never finish the game to begin with.

>>2134293
lurk for a decade, reddit spacing newfag

>>2134295
I'm referring to OP's picture where Paradox releases a $60 base game (chair) without Byzantium mechanics (one leg), without Reconquista mechanics (one leg), without Auld Alliance mechanics (two foundational legs; how can you even release a EUROPA univesalis game without fucking auld alliance events built in?????? might as well release the game without swords and guns and tell you to buy unit DLCs)

>>2129471
First DLC will be released in Q2 2026 meaning it will be 5-8 months after release and it will be just a flavor pack.
It will be developed after the release.

>>2134563
You clearly do not understand what that term means, and are simply repeating it in an attempt to fit in. Pro tip: it’s not separating paragraphs with a blank line.

>>2134568
>immersion pack and 2 chronicle packs
What mechanics? It's all flavour, you imbecile.

>>2132632
People with actual wealth do not waste it on DLC for a mediocre game that they could easily pirate with CreamInstaller.

>>2134599
>not even out yet
>mediocre
Coping pre-emptively, I see.

>>2134590
Hold on, 3 packs in a year?

>Victoria 3
>2 packs, includes pretty big reworks

>CK 3
>1.5 packs, if it includes a major rework
>3 if pure flavour

HoI4
>same as CK3

Huh, really. So Johan is confident that EU5 is mostly feature complete on release, is he.

>>2129437 (OP)
i'm unhappy about the auld alliance dlc because it is probably the only dlc that will significantly touch scotland, and it sounds like it's just an event chain or something

Retards please. Paradox started as a small company run by history gamer enthusiasts to make historical SIMULATIONS, with just enough plausible alternative paths to cater to the what-ifs.

Then as news of these wonderful simulations spread all the retards wanted in, because retards are followers first, faggots second, and gamers a distant third. Then the bean counters did the math and realized making dumbed down shit games for the "I win" retards was vastly more profitable than catering to a small group of "complexity equals more realism" gamers. Add in a hefty dose of faggotry and bitches and that is modern paradox in all its DLC glory. With a massive cock shoved all the way up the asses of anyone stupid enough to buy one of their modern games.

>>2133964
The only bad part is the performance being dogshit when they promised the pop overhaul would fix late game lag.

>>2134585
>ackshually the way everyone formatted their posts on 4chan since 2006 is in fact the reddit spacing in question
>ackshually the double line separating paragraphs that coincidentally started happening only after 2016 elections and le redditors getting banned and discovering 4chan, has ackshually nothing to do with the reddit spacing on reddit which separates paragraphs exactly like I do in my posts
>ackshually reddit spacing is defined by my own incorrect understanding of reddit spacing which is pressing enter once on reddit, it has nothing to do with actual reddit spacing result of separating paragraphs with a blank space
>what is um- uh- the le problem? It makes my posts easier to read, you see?
just kill yourself already you dumb fucking nigger and preferably go back where you came from

>>2134590
>immersion pack
oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize I could form Germany for free but forming Rome as Byzantium is an EXTRA ADDITIONAL COMPLETELY OPTIONAL IMMERSION PACK
>2 chronicle packs
chronicle my balls you fucking imbecile, if you can't get Scotland-France alliance events without paying for them, the game about historical simulation in that time period is INCOMPLETE and you're a KEKOLD for thinking otherwise

>>2135234
Stop your hysterics, the buttons will be there from the start. The events will most likely be focusing on ahistorical choices, instead.

>>2135201
nyooooo you must pay 271k gorillion dollars to parajew so that the poor devel... management have a slice of the pie. Pay the slop

>>2135201
But I like paypigs.
They keep buying and I keep playing for free.

>>2135355
This "management"... is it in the room with us right now?

>>2132814
This and also chuds don't play video game, only watch "Gameplay Full Game Walkthrough No Commentary" on YouTube

>>2135355
>271k gorillion
Look chud it’s either 271k or six gorillion okay? Can’t be both. The logistics are just improbable.

>>2132814
>But they don’t understand game development is way more expensive and tedious than it used to be.
You're right.
Games used to be made inside a year and then a sequel came out the next. All by software engineers who knew the hardware they were working with and often made their own engines.
Why today 5 years is not enough time to make a game if you consider all the integrated development environments, licensable engines, flowchart languages that let even non-programmers make games, thousands of Indians willing to work for free, AI tools and gaming being so mainstream there's more money in it than ever. I mean could you really expect someone to make a game under these conditions? We should be thankful for what we have!

In sincerity Paradox games aren't about paying for extra content, it's about the game being fundamentally changed every so often to be balanced around having the extra content. See how estates were added to EU4 vanilla. I paid for estates. I also paid for estates as they were originally. Should I be offended at gamers or at paradox?

>>2135446
Damn, let's check in with those non-programmers making games and their licensable engines
>>>/vg/537535089
Yup, sounds right.

Is it so difficult to believe that modern games are leagues above Doom and Pong in sophistication?

>>2135453
>Is it so difficult to believe that modern games are leagues above Doom and Pong in sophistication?
Yes. I know this is a rhetorical question but I don't believe they are one bit.

>>2135490
And how much experience do you have with coding to doubt?

>>2134267
>had literal tens of thousands of variables
Doesn't EU5 have something like 20k locations, each with a pop for each combination of social class+religion+culture present, which each have a population+literacy+needs+satisfaction. Seems like we'd be easily getting into the hundreds of thousands of variables just from pops alone.
Don't get me wrong I'm no programmer and the games having shit optimisation wouldn't suprise me, but it feels like there's more to it than just number of variables here.
And obviously the best solution is
>just don't have that extreme a degree of granularity
but I feel like that's more of a game design issue than a coding issue.

>>2129437 (OP)
>50$ game
>age of exploration game
>exploration focused cunts will be dlc locked
>20$ dlcs
I KNEEL

>>2133962
Lmao that is a great analogy.
A bunch of anons discussing the product meanwhile a thirde is standing outside yelling and throwing random insults

>>2135453
>Damn, let's check in with those paradox programmers making games and their licensable engines
>"literally who: ahhh im stupid and incompetent "
>Yup, sounds right.
you're so fucking stupid it hurts

>>2139452
>a bunch of anons discussing getting railed by a company for no reason meanwhile a thirdie is standing outside asking why do you like to get fucked in the ass so much

>>2139452
Hear that? I think he's yelling something at the door. One of you lads throw him some spare change so he goes away

>>2129437 (OP)
I stopped buying anything from parasite interactive
I advise you anons to do the same and force yourself to learn new games while difficult in the beginning you will be free of this subpar worthless shit

>>2130583
Is he wrong?

>>2141136
Yes. Hello, tourist. Paradox does not break up their games. Anyone who actually follows Paradox developers knows this.

>>2129437 (OP)
Their logo looks like AI slop. I'm not saying I think it IS AI slop, but it does look like AI slop. Or mobile crap. Whatever. Same shit.

>>2129471
Shut up goyim.

>>2130576
Not even TW does this anymore, they have barebones version of the faction or random orcs as a placeholder until they've actually developed the dlc faction and its mechanics.

>>2134552
Paradox DLCs are just cheat codes now.

>>2141364
Yes. Hello, nigger. Kill yourself, shitskin. Everyone knows this.

>>2141424
>AI gets soo god at making art that terminally online fags can't see any picture anymore without thinking it was made my AI
TechGODS, I kneel.