Thread 2182735

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-44-17th-of-october-2025-poland-lithuania-ruthenia.1863384/
Hello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will be taking a look at the content for Poland, Lithuania and Ruthenia! These are countries that have both individual and common unique content, which is the reason for tackling them together in the same Tinto Flavour. Let's take a look at them now, without further ado:

TEXT TIME

are they going to tinto talk about how the AI does nothing for 500 years

>>2182747
Why won't you ask them, /gsg/bro?

>>2182781
No anon, you don't understand l, the pdx forums are le surveillance state.
Anything that isn't by the approved shills gets instantly deleted and if you say something bad about pdx the studio's hitman will hunt you down.

The crunch times that will be forced on the poor devs in order to improve and test the AI before the game is released will make Panzer era TNO's crunch times look like school projects.

>>2182781
johan's death squads will throw me into his catalan concentration camps

>>2182781
>>2182791
I'm happy that people are absolute spergs about this stuff. I don't have to emphasize that I'm being extremely respectful with my concerns.

>>2182735 (OP)
Should've waited a few hours, Pavia said he's posting the Zimbabwe Flavour delayed today

>>2182812
>zutt flavour about to drop
>suddenly mysterious delays

Any leaked build, gentlemen?

>>2182843
No?
Despite how thinks might seem EU5 is way more well liked than victoria 3

Just bought a 9800x3d, will it be enough to run eu5?

>>2182843
Someone will soon most likely, timelapsegate ruined any goodwill the community had for EU5

>>2182876
No, you need an amazon data center to launch the game

>>2182878
>timelapsegate ruined any goodwill
How many times do I have to ask you?

What are your guys hopes and fears of the game?

>>2182896
Hopes: It is good enough
Fears: It is good enough

>>2182876
Enough to run the uninstaller at least. And really that is for the best, those CPU cycles would only go towards running braindead as shit AI that doesn't do anything.

>>2182896
Hope: like EU3 with added details
Fear: like EU4 with added details

Johan has to return his based card

>>2182896
I hope it has good mechanics that are fun to play around with.
I fear it's a pile of irredeemable shit that sucks to play and they focus on tuning the AI instead of the mechanics.

>>2182832
i will outright ban them and refuse to buy a single DLC if they dont add zutt gay rape into every game now.
they keep showing gay shit down my throat in every god damn region of their games
and when finally there is some historical precedence for gay orgies we must hold them to their own standard and enforce it on the muslims for diversity

>>2182735 (OP)
>>2182740
dreamworks lookin ahh

>>2182982
>current state of the game
>2 weeks to release
its over...

BUT YOU CAN PLAY MINDSCHVEEPER IN DA GAME DERE

wonder how many content creators are redoing their EU5 review because of the timelapse, would think many had it ready for Nov.2nd but are now scrambling to redo it or add in disclaimers everywhere.

Anti-railroading anons got what they wanted and it’s exactly what the rest of us warned it would be like in practice. Enjoy, bozos.

>All these complaints
Lmao just like make your own game. Do it for free!

>>2182982
I really think it was the minmaxer CCs who ended up neutering AI expansion. Literally 2 weeks ago 1590 Europe was looking like this in a Russia game, so much more activity and consolidation. Whatever they've changed in those 2 weeks made everyone more passive

His silence is deafening

>>2182998
Should be an easy fix then?

>>2182968
Imagine being the paradrone community relations guy who is monitoring these threads and having to explain in the daily standup that current negative sentiment on 4chan is due to timelapse vids and a lack of gay rape flavor.

>>2182896
HOPE: I have fun
FEAR: It'll end up like EU4 in a couple years

>>2183005
>gay rape
it was consensual thoughbeit

>>2182982
oh nononono...

>>2183005
Nobody at paradox would care about the opinions of an image board where everyone pirates their games no matter what

Paradox knew this was an issue, that's why they have such a draconian video policy

>>2183012
>Nobody at paradox would care about the opinions of an image board
You say that as if some intern at Paradox hasn't been the one making these EU5 shill threads for the last year.

>>2183002
Possibly, they have 2 weeks to make the AI have some balls again

>>2183013
compared to literally any other game, how draconian was it really?

>>2183015
You need to give the AI the ability to make claims easily through the game mechanics, or incentivize them to use the parliament claim system more often.
You don't need to just give the AI a magic button that makes them have claims on everything permanently.

>>2182794
>Panzer era TNO's crunch times
I get that most of the TNO devs are NEET trannies with no IRL friends, but you have to be genuinely insane to agree to be crunched FOR A FREE MOD. At least actual game devs are being paid

>>2183019
>doubling down
your eu5 game, sir

>>2183030
?
I'm saying they need to improve the AI to make it more inclined to use the existing systems to conquer.
The player will always strive to expand, but the AI in its current rendition will look at the opportunity cost of conquest and say eh it's not worth the control penalty or aggression modifiers I'm gonna use my parliament to do X instead

>>2183030
That's the world in 1337.

>>2183016
Just tie AI expansion to the age system, so they don't blob too fast at first but don't stick to their initial borders in the late game either.

>>2183032
So you want your map to look like this?

Have the devs said anything about colonial nations?

>>2183005
>the daily standup
So what's the deal with AI aggression?
They're not AI... They're not aggressive... What the hell are they?

>>2183039
I want real life to look like that

upping AI aggression is a non-issue, they are probably just balancing stuff

>>2182998
>>2183002
>>2183016
The game was finished and polished, then the sweaty min-maxers claimed you got too much trade income. They simply lowered the price of every good so you got less money.
So this meant the AI, that was perfectly balanced to have enough money to collect taxes, raise armies, build forts, etc now simply didn't.
Unless they restore the trade values back to what they were (which they won't do, because CCs complained it was too easy) the AI will continue being unable to have the funds to raise armies.

Proof of this: The only nations that expand are Hungary and France, nations SO large that even post trade nerf they have enough money.

>>2183052
I despise youtubers

>>2183015
Historical outcome retards are cancerous. Why would you even bother when your aims is to make it same as how it was historically? The randomness of the game makes it interesting.

>>2183048
Got a chuckle out of me, thanks Anon

>>2183063
If Paradox games could create interesting alt-history I wouldn't mind, but their "alt-history" is always Spain blobbing to Timbuktu, something that couldn't happen due to Morocco, the amount of revolts they would have from Muslims there, and the intraversability of the Sahara.

>>2182735 (OP)
>lesser polish
>greater polish
sounds like a cleaning product advertisement, lmao.

>>2182735 (OP)
EU5 without Russia, Spain, Britain, Prussia, PLC or Ottoman Empire is a total disaster.
What shocks me the most is not that this or that country didn't make it, but that there is no other power to replace the vacuum that they leave. Not having any major ambitious powers in the east makes that part of Europe boring and irrelevant.

I was hyped for EU5, but after seeing the timelapse I got the ick.

DIPLO CONFIRMED TOO OP FOR THE AI

>>2183077
It's good that they can balance this at least, endless alliances is what makes late game EU4 so boring to play and you can't fix it when diplo slots are so inflexiable.

>>2183052
Substantiate your claims.

>>2183077
but... that happened in real life... and turks btfo them the fuck out...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade_of_Varna

It's so over - no TF today, I had to tackle some last-minute issues during the evening.

We're so back - we'll have two Tinto Flavour tomorrow, the one for Kilwa & Zimbabwe at 10:00, and the one for the Hansa & Switzerland at 15:00; plus replies to this thread.

Sorry once again for the rescheduling - but as you imagine, we're working really, really hard to guarantee the best possible version of the game for its release.

>>2183082
>game given to CCs
>every CC says trade income too high
>devs reduce trade income
>AI shits itself
what more is there to substantiate
the entire AI was based around that baseline level of income
did you watch none of the videos when they came out months ago?

>>2183087
No, fuck e-celebs.

>>2183090
Well you best start watching them, they're the ones dictating the development of the game.

>>2183087
There's probably a way around this, but if true, it means the problem is temporary. It's a shitty time to experiment with balance like that.

I'm sick of youtubers thinking these games are supposed to be "challenging", they're for simulating your power fantasies and drawing aesthetic borders, sure you CAN go past the Rhine as France, but why would you? It looks ugly and there's no historical basis for it.

>>2183067
Spanish expansion to Africa was one of the Spanish historical goals, they just never were able to pull it off, then Napoleon blew up their empire and they never really recovered

>>2183067
mhm
while the game is undoubtedly a huge leap forward from eu4, it still doesnt really attempt to simulate the real reasons polities expanded where they did and didn't where they didn't. you would need systems for fluid and shared ownership aswell as deep, comprehensive logistics. unfortunately even if that could be done today, it's the kind of stuff that would require a supercomputer to run. we're still a computational revolution away from the granularity and detail required for the games we _dream_ of.

>>2183063
ye this is something that really bugs me with 90% of the people talking about it
they seem to have no understanding whatsoever of how incredibly unlikely most of their scenarios are, given the 1337 start date. expecting ie the ottomans to reach anything remotely close to their 1683 extent on a regular basis is ridiculous. I'm actually fine with them never even crossing the strait, and some gimped byzantine rump state existing in thrace until the end of the game; why is that any less believeable than the pope still being nominally independent in 2025?
obviously the game ending up static, with AIs barely even fighting eachother at all for 100's of years, is not satisfactory in any regard and they'll have to find a solution to upping their agression significantly.

>>2183107
This is the equivalent to saying Taiwan's epxansion to the mainland was one of Taiwan's historical goals. Yeah, it was, but the idea of it happening is so far beyond the pale that you can't say it should ever be allowed to happen in a grand strategy game.

Spain would at most be able to hold a few fort settlements in the North, not only were the Moroccans too strong to allow them to encroach further than that but even if they weren't the whole thing would be a universal quagmire that would bankrupt the Spanish to try to hold. That's not believable alt-history, it's just map painting.

>>2183063
>Historical outcome retards are cancerous. Why would you even bother when your aims is to make it same as how it was historically? The randomness of the game makes it interesting.
If you want randomness just go play fantasy or warhammer and clash your made up weightless action figures or something.
Not having the Turks in Eastern Europe is pure cancer, they were the one great event during that time, without them it's no longer a historical game.
And remember there are no startdates besides this one.

>>2183108
>why is that any less believeable than the pope still being nominally independent in 2025?
The game is about history, if history doesn't happen in roughly the same way then the map may as well be random. People play these games because they want recognizable moments from history in their games. It would be one thing if some games it happens that Ottomans fail at the crib and something else happens but you have to understand that that has to be the exception to the rule where they most of the time do the correct thing.

>>2183000
He's biding his time in the shadows, ready to strike at the pirates after the game releases

>>2183096
Hell if nothing else you could just give the AI a hidden 50% buff to trade income.
The extra dosh will still get used inefficiently because it is the AI and the player doesn't get insane trade income

>>2183117
There's a really good point in here. The AI should be robust enough that it doesn't seek 1:1 historical outcomes, but it's almost boring if you don't have power bases that roughly resemble the ones in real life. It's not a problem if the UK stays an colonylet retard island, but it's a problem if the UK never becomes a great power.

>>2183030
>mali becomes bigger and bigger with each game

>getting your opinions from LLM
Certified subhuman moment

>>2183116
You autists want the gamemap to look the same except for the country you are playing as. Which is fine and can be added to the game as a "historical" gameplay mode, but it really shouldn't be the main point of the game.

>>2183116
>>2183117
i think there's a whole lot of space inbetween failing at the crib and 1683 borders. and i do think that should the ottomans collapse/fail to take off, someone else should take advantage of that power vacuum, whether that be another beylik, the mamluks, or someone completely different

>>2183143
^this
Ottomans being the big dog, or beating the byzzies that hard wasn't an assured thing.
They could have easily gotten screwed over by other nations beforehand or during. Just like the byzzies could have acted less retarded, lol, without crippling themselves while allowing that threat to fester.

>>2183132
>It's not a problem if the UK stays an colonylet retard island
>But it's a problem if the UK never becomes a great power.
These two statements contradict each other. I'd agree that on a regular game 80% of the time or so England should unite the isles. But England becoming a world power without colonizing and establishing a trade empire would be ludicrous. It didn't have the population or the resources to achieve that without the unique success of their colonies.

>>2183143
Honestly, if it's sometimes the Karaman Empire and not the Ottoman Empire, that's really good. There should be a Turkish Empire there 90% of games.

>>2183151
>These two statements contradict each other.
No they really don't.
>A isn't a problem
>It's a problem if B never happens

Even this wouldn't be a contradiction
>A isn't a problem
>It's a problem if A never happens

There's no contradiction, don't just throw that word around.

>>2183143
>>2183147
Byzantines restoring their power back, or Ottomans or any of other beyliks conquering Europe were all equally possible scenarios in 1337. And the region having kind of a stalemate was also a possibility. i think it would be nice to see different scenarios play out in every walkthrough. The main issue right now is not the historical accuracy, but literally nothing happening anywhere at all.

>>2183156
>Even this wouldn't be a contradiction
>>A isn't a problem
>>It's a problem if A never happens
I meant
>A isn't a problem
>It's a problem if A always happens
the wording is different

>>2183103
>sure you CAN go past the Rhine as France, but why would you? It looks ugly and there's no historical basis for it.
past the Rhine lies Frankish clay

>>2183147
>They could have easily gotten screwed over by other nations beforehand or during
Even Timur's invasion and the following fragmentation and civil war was barely a footnote in the grand scheme of things that did not stop their march towards destiny
>Just like the byzzies could have acted less retarded
Now that's just delusional. By 1337 Byzantium was already on a permanent life support and survived a century longer purely because other countries kept fucking with the Turks

>>2183156
A is a necessary condition for B
If A doesn't occur B cannot occur.
If B not occuring is not a problem A not occuring cannot be a problem.

>>2183063
the player is the "randomness" you fucking retard

I completely disagree with the simulationist view, I think it's unworkable (Victoria 3 and now EU5 too prove this).


But if I were to make the case for simulationism it'd be that the world should be divided into "zones" and these zones should bascially be battle royals until one tag comes to rule them. There could only be a permanent sense of peace between them when one tag completely dominated them and every other tag there was either their subject, paying tribute to them, or a buffer state for them. The only real exception to this would be the HRE.

Once a tag had filled in a zone they could expand to other zones, for example playing as the Ottomans the AI would seek to immediately defeat all the other Beyliks (and all the other Beyliks would also seek to do this) and then whatever power wins becomes the Anatolia zone (realistically would be Turkish every game, but a player could reclaim it for Byzantium and become the Anatolian hegemon)

Once a zone was filled in they could expand to other zones, for example once Anatolia was consolidated the Anatolia hegemon could seek to expand into the Balkan zone, and/or the levant zone, but by this point that zone would probably already have a hegemon there.
The AI would be discouraged from going to other zones before their zone had been filled in, this would be to limit ugly blobbing.

Tags would get "zone flavor" from taking it, for example even if the Russia zone became owned by Poland-Lithuania they would still get the flavor to expand into Siberia for the fur trade, likewise a Russia who controlled the Dnieper zone would get flavor around taming the area and stopping horse lords running wild.

Basically you'd be guaranteed that these region zones would consolidate, whether the lowlands zone ended up under native Dutch rule, French rule, German rule, British rule, or Spanish rule all the region flavor (rise of strong burghers there, windmills and shit) would still fire.

Owning too many zones could cause overextension.

>>2183162
I pointed out >>2183158 for a reason.
Even if it's the SAME statement, which inevitably shuffles the wording, it's not a contradiction. I'm sorry, realize this obvious fact or you're just too stupid to have anything valuable to say.

>>2183160
but this maps shows the german clay in france?

>>2183112
the issues were mostly geographical but if spain did not had the burgundian lands and habsburg autism to worry about, they very likely could have expanded southwards instead

>>2183166
>I think it's unworkable
eu4 works fine

>>2183181
I fucking hate EU4.

>>2183112
Nigger, Taiwan or Formosa was literally a bastion of Ming Restorationists and they were a thorn in the side of Manchu for a long time, harrassing their trade and leading quite successful invasions to the mainland.

>>2183190
And how many times did Taiwan reconquer the mainland?

>>2183176
Spain had the entire new world to focus on, the only scenario where the reconquista continues into Morocco is if the new world was never discovered.

>>2183166
>blob into every zone
>get events for every zone
lmao this is even more broken than current eu5 congrats

How many of you were actually going to buy the game?
How many of you are now no longer going to buy the game?

>>2183181
eu4 is far less simulationist than vick3 or eu5

>>2183206
and yet the ingame world resembles history the closest

>>2183205
I got it for free, but the timelapse gave me enough doubts that I would wait a year to buy.

>>2183202
>Spain had the entire new world to focus on
lol
they spend all their money and manpower in european wars

railroad niggas be like yoooo this gameplay fire
https://youtu.be/bs03z0Lsu9g&t=1282

>>2183211
>they spend all their money and manpower in european wars
And that was a good thing!

>>2183205
I have it preordered and won't cancel.
I liked their dev diary approach and game mechanics seem solid. If nothing else improves the game the mods will.
So I firmly believe that the game will be great even if it is yet another launch disaster.

>>2183166
Sounds awful. I'm glad you don't work for Paradox.

>>2183087
Think for a second, anon. Your claim is essentially that Johan developed the systems of the game, changed one of them because a handful of gay dramatubes whined a bit, and is now completely stumped and surprised by the resulting effects. If there's anyone who knows how the game-systems function, interact and affect each other, then it's him. There's no way that he and the devs don't understand the effects of decreasing trade income would or could have on the game.

Doomposting about this is just absurd.

>>2183239
>there's no way people given the game specifically to beta-test them have any influence on the devs
>there's no way paradox could ever break one of their games and make it an unbalanced piece of shit
If you honestly believe this then there's no point arguing with you, anon.

>>2183221
timelapse defenders be like yooooo this gameplay is fire

>>2183242
kek

>>2183241
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/a-bad-precedent-is-being-set-regarding-balance-and-quick-fixes.1860597/?prdxDevPosts=1

>>2183246
Your argument that content creators AREN'T leading development is a link to a forum post where a developer literally confirms he's changed the game because a content creator told him to?

>>2183250
You are illiterate.

>>2183253
>content creator plays wales
>whines it's too hard to devs
>devs restructure the game around him
>this proves that CCs don't have creative control
the copium has destroyed your frontal cortex

>>2183030
omg this is so blessed i hope they never add more nigger nations

>>2183166
This is more or less the way to go. I'd add that you'd want these regions to be somewhat overlapping in order to induce conflict even if nations are stabilized in particular regions, and possibly also want a parallel system of looking at demographics when determining where to expand (so if your culture is present outside a region, you'll try to get the area they're in too, even if the region that area's in isn't one you're focusing on)

>>2182896
Hopes: The game has a good framework and once the initial balancing and patching is done it's not only playable but enjoyable in 6 months to a year.
Fears: Devs overcorrect, turn AI aggression to full so every game is murderAIs and playing tall (the whole point of adding pops and trade goods and markets instead of just being a generic EU4 blobber) isn't possible.

>>2182896
Hopes: The map resolution and pop system give us kino mods.
Fears: No modelling of European superiority = no great divergence = Jeetpocalypse in every game. Also it runs like shit.

>>2183279
>No modelling of European superiority = no great divergence
Explain how to implement this without resorting to modifier bloat like picrel

>>2183286
EU3 did fine with base tax and tech groups

>>2183083
i heard enough, +20% discipline to the ottomans

>>2183039
No, I want it to look like this:

>>2183286
unironically, pull one from civ VI: get tech boosts from competition, no idea about admin and diplo but battles should give military tech boost

>>2183083
>Crusade of Varna
This battle was closer than people think. The Crusaders could have won if Wladyslaw didn't charge alone against the Ottomans like a retard and actually waited for Hunyadi's reinforcements for a joint offensive.

is the timelapse thing actually a big thing elsewhere or is it just here?

>>2183286
The 'simulationist' approach doesn't work if your simulation has baked in falsehoods, such as universal equality. It will be incapable of producing feasible outcomes and will feel fake and weird. A solution could be mechanical like the Vic II westernisation minigame you do before getting to research European tech. Traits and modifiers to cultures/pops would also be realistic, and they have this in CK III.

>>2183316
Hard to say, from what I can find on r*ddit it is solely sequestered to the EU5 part, which might be bigger doomers than anons, but rather big there too. Like 15 separate threads, is that what they call it?, with >1500 comments.
PDX is quite limited. Ca. 80 comments mentioning a timelapse after it got posted and few threads about the topic itself i.e. AI should prioritize consolidation more, AI should be more aggressive etc.

From what I can see it's a bigger deal here than on PDX but that is it and mainly because PDX users are more focused on "this needs to change" instead of " it's so joever"

>>2183316
I think it's quite big on reddit (at least two posts about the timelapse surpassing 1k updoots, plus several other posts with hundreds of updoots) and the first timelapse video has 80k views.
Barely any mention in the steam forum, thirdies are too busy whining about dlcs.

>>2183330
>A solution could be mechanical like the Vic II westernisation minigame you do before getting to research
They kinda have that already. Institutions are what you need to unlock the associated research trees,
On historic settings 15 out of 15 institutions spawn in europe, well and you have 3 more that exist at game start but 2 of those are in europe too.

>>2183334
someone posted a link to a reddit comment in the last thread where a paradox employee said they're "aware" of the timelapse controversy, aka 100 pajeet coders are currently being crunched right now

Did anyone notice this part of the tinto talk regarding modding?

>>2183364
Yeah but nobody cares about achievements
or rather, anyone who cares about them knows you can enable them regardless, or simply grant yourself any achievement at will, so who cares

>>2183312
The experienced leadership and the papal legate were the true retards for not properly tardwrangling Wlady and expecting a nigga who literally turned 20 years old 2 weeks before Varna to not be a hotheaded dumbass during his second campaign (the prior one being the year before).

>>2183409
I was unifying Germany and conquering the world at a much younger age. If it had been me I could have won it.

>>2182735 (OP)
I've predicted that the AI will be overly passive on launch for a while. From the Devs' perspective it's less damaging for launch-week player retention that the AI is meeker towards the horde of new players than if it was aggressive and regularly crushed players still trying to get a hang of things. Newbies feeling powerful are more likely to stick around than ones who feel overwhelmed with as of yet no well-established community guides to fall back on.

Then as players get more experienced in the ensuing weeks and months and want more challenge the devs can just add aggression in bits and pieces with patches, and newbies coming in later will by then have a lot more community posts and guides to turn to for help.

I predict within a year we'll have a patch that gets loads of people throwing a hissyfit over how merciless the AI suddenly is. That's when the devs will know the general limit.

>>2183409
>and expecting a nigga who literally turned 20 years old 2 weeks before Varna
That would be an old fart in medieval times, besides kings were supposed to be trained in all kinds of martial tactics and were expected to have common sense.

>>2183411
>I was unifying Germany and conquering the world at a much younger age. If it had been me I could have w-ACK

>>2183425
>That would be an old fart in medieval times
No it wouldn't, you would be an adult and expected to take adult responsibilities but people of older times weren't idiotic and historically recognized the differences in maturity between a 16 yo "adult" and a 50 yo experienced guy even if they didn't understand the biological causes behind it (using romantic terms like the impetus of youth and shit).

>>2183190
>a bastion of Ming Restorationists
They were barely fucking surviving, they just rotted there in their island doing fuck all until the Qing raped them.

>>2183316
Ultimately it changes nothing. The guys who pre-ordered are locked in regardless of how shit it is. Johan could personally come out and say "there's a bug in 1.0 that bricks your PC, do NOT play it" and retards still would.

>>2183126
someone should go back in time and inform paradox of their historical errors

>>2183470
this is the future sandboxcucks want

>>2183476
And its beautiful!

Is there a single content creator that isn't a turbo-nigger?

>>2183470
vgh....
sovl....
EU3 is more fun than EU4 btw

>>2182735 (OP)
I hate that these faggots just mixed CK3 and Vic3 and put it into Eu5.
You could make an argument for the Imperator pop mechanics but holy shit, the map is just horrible to the eye.

Anyone who wants 100% historical accuracy in these games is a literal fag. Go watch a history documentary.

These are GAMES. Games are supposed to be fun and ENGAGING. CK2 will always be the best paradox game simply because they didn’t give af about historical accuracy and went the RNG route. Which made it ENGAGING.

Playing on speed 5 while AFK isn’t fun. Sorry.

>>2183528
>These are GAMES. Games are supposed to be fun and ENGAGING
What part of actual history isn't engaging to you? For me, sandboxing is the thing that lacks engagement.

>>2183528
Go play civ then, where there is almost 0 historical value to it.

>>2183527
the real HRE looked much worse

>>2183527
I agree for the puppet spam in other countries, but the HRE was historically fucking horrible to look at.
>I hate that these faggots just mixed CK3 and Vic3 and put it into Eu5.
hardest disagree ever
EU4 was fucking boring for tallchads. If you weren't blobbing there literally wasn't anything to do. The game desperately needed something, the fact it got both a simplified version of CK3 dynasties AND vic3 economics is based af.

>>2183528
>Playing on speed 5 while AFK isn’t fun. Sorry.
I liked doing observer runs in Vicky 2 and EU3

>>2183537
>>2183536
Sure, we'll see how that plays out though it seems bloated somewhat with those imported mechanics.
The nu-map look they gave this game still hurts my eyes. There was something more pleasing about the Vic2 or even EU3/EU4's map look that made it more easy to look at.

>>2183545
It's bloated now but in 10 years it'll look simplistic.
>what the fuck do you mean baden-hestenburgplatz is merged with saxon-meinkampfenhausten?

>>2183527
Im sorry my nigguh but that volkisch AF

>>2183470
this is already more variation from its start date than the timelapse had in 1836

What's up guys, today we're going to be convincing JOHAN ANDERSSON to fuck his game up two weeks before launch, completely fuck the ai, AND lose thousands of dollars in the process so if you like this content be sure to hit the like, smash the subscribe button, and remember... be amibitious!

>>2183170
Franks were from the Celtic side of the Rhine, they were closer to ancient Belgians genetically

>>2183545
ehh they had to replace mana with something so pops and actual trade makes sense.
The trade node system in eu4 never made any sense to me. If you control all the trade nodes up to your home node all your money can still go to someone else. Also you can be the richest country on the planet and still have lower dev then poland because they blobbed out

>>2183570
One thing I hated about EU4 that they've brought back is you get trade advantage through having provinces in a market, so it's still more profitable to blob out.

Tall players are the most oppressed minority.

>>2183476
crazy fucking ugly blobs is better than the nothing ever happens of eu5

>>2183103
>It looks ugly and there's no historical basis for it.
The french kings never stopped claimed german lands. For them the Capetian "France" was the same thing as the Carolingian "Francia" and saw the division of the empire as a temporal thing.

>>2183330
>Vic II westernisation minigame
It's not really a minigame, it's more of a "wait 20-30 years to play the game" minigame.
Not a bad idea but could use some work.

>>2183160
>>2183579
>autists in charge of not missing the point

>>2183580
What's the alternative?
In Victoria 3 you can take the blackest gorilla nigger nation and immediately start building iron foundries.

>>2183580
I liked that you could accelerate by chimping out and annexing your fellow monkeys

>>2183586
You know, Ngubu, ever since annexing the south forest bantus I suddenly feel an urge to patronise institutions of higher learning.

>>2183580
>NOOOOOOO ZIMBABWE SHOULD BE LIKE WAKANDA I SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGHT AGAINST EUROPE FROM THE START OF THE GAME!
AIIIIIIIIIIIIIII SAVE ME YAKUB

>>2183574
That image shows ugly bordergore and that's what we get in EU5

>>2183537
>If you weren't blobbing there literally wasn't anything to do
EU4 had more tall gameplay than EU3 at least. Being able to actually press button to dev your provinces was a lot more interactive than EU3 where the only thing you could do is build buildings. And national ideas + idea groups actually let some countries focus on being tall unlike EU3 which is actually the game with nothing to do but blob.

I used to be in the pro-simulation crowd as well but after playing hundreds of hours of Victoria II I've come to realize that it's pretty pointless. There's a lot of economic and population simulation going on "under the hood" so to speak, but there's very little actual interactivity you have as a player, especially if you get stuck in a dictatorship or republic with a political party that disallows the state to intervene in the economy. All that work for simulating a world economy and the only thing you can do as a player is control your armies, adjust the budget, and maybe sometimes pass a reform, EU3 is basically the same but without a bunch of pop simulation.
The more abstracted system of EU4 is better for gameplay, there's a lot more dynamism and things you can actually do as a play like manage estates privileges/crownland, dev provinces, control trade, do more complex diplomacy, and you can choose national ideas for bonuses when doing all this.

I was hoping EU5 would be a nice medium between the abstracted control of EU4 and the simulation elements of Vic2/3 but from what the tinto talks show, seems like once again gameplay interactivity will take a backseat to simulation.

>>2183589
The issue with westernization isn't that you're not on par with Europeans, it's that there's even less to do than normal Vic2 gameplay. You can't even research shit and your economy consists entirely of whatever shitty RGOs your country can put out with no tech bonuses. You literally just do nothing until the 1870s then you can play the game normally.

>>2183330
>>2183580
Vic2's westernization is good because it easily scales between nations like Japan or Persia that can westernize easily, subsaharan shitholes, and a complete clusterfuck like China. The challenges you face are slightly different for each one.

>>2183592
>You literally just do nothing until the 1870s then you can play the game normally.
damn just like japan irl

>>2183574
Those are your options when the AI is not railroaded: the AI will expand nonsensically with exclaves everywhere, or it will do little to nothing at all. EU4 got railroading right but people aren't ready to admit that just yet.

>>2183592
>uhhhh this game sucks unless it gives me bing bing wahoo buttons that make dopamine go up bigly because I pushed the heckin development button so my arbitrary number went up by 1!!!!!
>this is PEAK gameplay!!!!

>>2183595
Venice having a penis shaped enclave in eastern Europe has fuckall to do with "railroading". Normal game mechanics are what should discourage it. Yknow, like control, but as it stands that mechanic is clearly pointless and unbalanced.

>>2183594
There was actually a lot happening with Japanese westernization such as the Boshin War, which the Victoria games don't really try to implement other than maybe some reactionary rebels spawning.
Ironically Japan is one of the few unwesternized nations in Victoria II that actually can do shit, they have good RGOs and population for being unwesternized and can conquer parts of Asia to speedrun westernization.

>>2183598
>it should just magically work this way because, like, I want it to!
Midwit logic. Not how it works and there are no games in existence where what you're asking for exists, and not for lack of trying.

>>2183571
I mean you can make your own markets no? So you can counter that and blob your market across your neighbors borders

>>2183597
>he likes to do nothing and watch
paradox really is going for the cuck audience with EU5

>>2183604
back in eu3 I spent 100 years having my stability crash down 4 times to get to western tech group and I liked it

I want the game to play itself.
I want to speed 5 as graph go up.
I want to see my pops independently go to colonies without clicking the "encourage migration" focus and building "settlement" buildings.
I want my Burghers to independently build the economy with buildings that expand their power.
I hate war.
I hate taking provinces illogically.
AI should be banned from taking provinces that give them ugly borders.
I WILL changeowner provinces back if the AI makes a peace deal I dislike.

>>2183602
Projecting low IQ post.
Conquering an isolated port town is maybe doable, but expanding inland should give you diminishing returns. Likewise blobbing across huge mountain ranges that people have trouble crossing to this day is retarded and yet in EU3/4/5 you can move your armies and blob through there with no extra effort. MEIOU CE represented this well enough.

>>2183603
I'm talking about a scenario where I'm Portugal and want a good share of the Indian trade.
In real life they just took Goa and projected power from there.
In the game the player is incentivized to take all of India, as in EU4.
Don't get me wrong, EU5 is better because you can build provinces taller with buildings and such, but the underlying principle of blobbing being the optimal gameplay is still there.

>>2183608
EU5 literally copied the CE mechanic and called it control and also added a maritime presence mechanic that affects control across water
It being poorly tuned is a different problem

>>2183611
>It being poorly tuned is a different problem
The AI needs to evaluate what provinces it wants to take based on how much value it can extract from them, obviously I don't know how it works currently but not even Paradox would be capable of messing up such fundamental logic.
If control worked properly and the AI followed that rule bordergore would be reduced to a minimum, like no Florence and Naples landlocked enclaves in tropical Africa.

Have the deva addressed the time lapse yet?

>>2183616
0 control with no land connection to a province without 0 control should be insta-secede.
So if you have France take Louisiana and you take both Quebec and New Orleans the entire landmass between should just become its own tag.

>>2183618
One dev posted on reddit they were "aware of it". That's it.
When it started gaining traction (read: hate) the guy who uploaded it had to put out an edit that he was SANCTIONED to upload it by the PR team.
They're both getting fired.

>>2183618
The deva?

>>2183637
Please don’t bully me, sir.

>>2183582
I understood your point but it was fucking retarded. Why the the fuck you are applying "historical logic" to a map-painting game, from all the things?

>>2183607
This but unironically

>>2183649
>why are you applying gun logic to a fps

>>2183658
>nooooooooo you can't just make the m4 eject shells out of the left side of the receiver because you're a sinister lazy lefty

>>2183620
why would the guy who uploaded it be getting fired lol. He literally asked the leader of the pr team if it was OK to post an edited 30sec timelapse clip. Of course he didn't disclose the fact that all the editing he did was speed up the footage but still.

>>2183668
They're just going to arbitrarily punish him for bringing disrepute onto the game. He's never being given an advanced copy of anything again.
They've blacklisted people who've made them look bad before, intentionally or not.

>>2183672
arumbabros...

>>2183103
And I'm sick of faggots that demand games be boring.

>go read a history book!
Go fucking paint a map with crayons.

>>2183532
When you play the game for 1,000 hours, it gets kind of boring knowing that the ottomans are gonna blob and take half of Europe every single time.

I like variety and unpredictability. To this day. Crusader Kings 2 is the only good paradox game because the ai never does the same exact thing in subsequent playthroughs.

Sometimes France blobs, sometimes England blobs, etc… it’s fun having to actually react to the world instead of being AFK on speed 5 as i collect ducets and mana points.

>>2183703
Doesn't it take you out of the game when you get epic borders like >>2183470?
There there's no real powers, the entire map is just shit on a canvas.

>>2183703
That makes no sense.
Whether it's the Ottomans or the Aztecs taking over Europe, your reaction depends purely on your situation. If the game is piss easy (CK2 is) then you can speed 5 and collect your ducats no matter what, it doesn't matter if what is happening around you is historical or not.

>>2183703
After 1.3k hours of HoI4, I take Historical Focuses off only for a laugh.

Stellaris is boring, EU4 is boring, and so is CK2. You just mistake laughing at AI acting dumb as enjoying "variety and unpredictability".

>>2183710
I understand having historical focuses in Hoi4 on since taking them off can and probably will just give you a headache since the ai takes a path that makes your planned playthrough in the end be a wc or something else completely retarded. ie. some European minor joining chinese united front or some such

>>2183568
aka belgium clay

I'm tired of these discussions

>>2183809
what do you want to talk about anon?

>>2183812
gay sex

>>2183813
/gsg/ if a few threads down

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-45-24th-of-october-2025-kilwa-zimbabwe.1864174/

Tinto Flavour #45 - 24th of October 2025 - Kilwa & Zimbabwe

Hello, and welcome one more Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will be taking a look at the content for Kilwa & Zimbabwe! Let's take a look at them now, without further ado:

Kilwa

Wakanda Tinto Talk for those interested
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-45-24th-of-october-2025-kilwa-zimbabwe.1864174/

Kilwa starts with 2 unique reforms:

A unique Policy:

Unique Advances:

It has some DHEs:

Zimbabwe

These are the starting Privileges - although Zimbabwe doesn't have any unique one:

However, it benefits from this very important Cabinet Action, which allows it to settle the border locations at its own pace:

While originally we created this action for Zimbabwe, we've ended up generalizing it for a bunch of countries and regions;

These are its advances. From Ages 1 to 5 they're for Shona people, while the two for Age 6 are just for Zimbabwe:

And it also has DHEs, as usual:

And this is an event that will make constant adventurers appear, and be available to be employed for the Cabinet:

… And much more, but that’s all for today! Later on, at 15:00, we will be taking a look at Switzerland & The Hansa, the last countries in the Tinto Flavour series!

And also remember, you can Pre-Purchase Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!

>>2183824
the second kang of the time

>>2183819
>if a few threads down

anyone formulated a rule on how long till paradox titles gets playable?
Imperator and Victoria 3 both got fun after three years of patching.

>>2183882
1 day per 500 copies sold

>>2183882
It's an inverse correlation with how full of themselves the devs are.
For example Vic3 devs said you don't need strategy in a strategy game actually, and not having goods is a good thing, and it took them years to salvage it.
Johan was at peak hubris with Imperator and it launched like a wet fart and died.
CK3 devs were paranoid everyone would stick with CK2 so the game was actually good and fun right on release, but after it succeeded they got too cocky and went on to churn out slop for years, so the game is actually worse today due to bloat.
Johan and the others on EU5 have bent over backwards to deliver the grognards every piece of info possible and accommodated every autistic suggestion in regional map threads so I'm pretty sure they're terrified of a flop and are acting with utmost humility, this is a good omen

can you form finland in dis game?

>>2183932
It would be horribly bigoted of the Swedes if there was no Finnish state available when they took the effort to make all the tiny abo tribe fucks their own cultures.

>>2183932
No you can only form Poland.

soi4 normalfag CCs are gonna clown on the game and make it flop aren't they

>>2183932
finland doesn't exist

>>2183932
yeah vinland is formable

>>2183591
Besides France. Hungary and Naples did the AI even do anything?

>>2184028
poland is in finland

>>2184028
Somalia is a hegemon

hegemony system in the 1400's is fucking retarded

>>2184032
Kangz and such

>>2184034
truke

>>2183932
Finns are just a bunch of subhumans that never had their own nation. It's good that it's not formable.

>>2183838
>Later on, at 15:00, we will be taking a look at Switzerland & The Hansa
Finally it's time for some civilized nations.

He's so fuaaarking cool.

HAHAHAHHAHAH
eu5 is so fucking done, jotran is a total fraudulent retard
this is what happens when you mistake abstractions that work so retardedly different from fucking real life aka modifier slop as this complex, therefore, grand gameplay
game runs like shit, probably an unfixable ai that behaves like shit and the most unrealistic abstraction slop after eu4 ever devised

>>2184055
what if it's good?

I preordered
Going to have fun
I hope you have fun too.

>>2184056
Doesn't matter, playing games isn't relevant for those kinds of
>people

>>2184060
/v/tards arent plaing games they just complain

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/tinto-flavour-46-24th-of-october-2025-switzerland-the-hansa.1864208/

Tinto Flavour #46 - 24th of October 2025 - Switzerland & The Hansa

Hello, and welcome one more time this Friday to Tinto Flavour, the happy days in which we take a look at the flavour content of Europa Universalis V!

Today This afternoon, we will be taking a look at the content for Switzerland & The Hansa! This will be a bit special for two reasons. The first is that both have uncommon types of content: the first is based around an International Organization, the Swiss Confederation; while the latter is a Building-Based Company, the only one that has enough content to be considered a Tier 3 country. The second one is that these are the last countries that will be showing in Tinto Flavour - although it won't be the last post of the series. Let's take a look at it, without further ado:

Switzerland

I'm using the Kanton of Schwyz for the country overview, but as you might see, there are several Swiss countries that will benefit from the Swiss content.

>>2184065
I can understand playing a game, disliking it, and complaining about what one dislikes (eg BG3), but it seems very odd to me to be so emotionally invested in disliking something that’s not even out and that presumably the anon has no interest in playing at all
When there’s upcoming games i think are going to be shit, it’s enough for me to simply state that I think it will be bad and I’ll be passing on it, and moving on my with life
Just bought eu5 last night btw, gonna play it and probably have fun

The most important piece of structural content for the Swiss countries is the Swiss Confederation IO:

The backbone of the IO is its laws, which the different members may vote on repeatedly:

Inside each IO Law, there might be several policies, which may shape the functionality of the IO, causing different effects on its members:

E.g.: What is considered a Swiss country is something not completely set in stone in 1337, and there's a Law which will set the policy of the Confederation regarding which countries may be accepted into it, depending on their primary culture:

Nonetheless, the core issue of the Confederation will be either keeping its confederal status, or striving towards unification of the Swiss lands - which may be triggered at a certain point by an event:

This is the formable Switzerland, which may happen either due to the aforementioned path, or by destroying the Confederation IO, and then directly forming the country:

And this is what may happen if it's formed via the IO - it is disbanded, and all its members will unify into a single country, Switzerland:

Besides that, the Swiss countries have unique advances, as usual:

And some DHEs, as usual:

The Hanseatic League

Spread of the Hanseatic League in 1337.

The Hanseatic League is a very different type of country, as being a Building Based one. That means that it holds no land, and in case it would acquire any, it would also become a Settled Country. This means, that it can only expand via foreign buildings, from which its money and resources depend. This is due to the Hanseatic Merchant Federation, which unlocks its basic content and mechanics:

The other means that it has to expand its power is by a unique type of Subject, the Member of the Hansa. Only countries with at least one town or city, and having fewer than 5 locations, can be made members - an action that can be performed either through diplomacy, or by a war and a peace treaty. There are only 3 at start, Hamburg, Lübeck, and Bremen, and here are its rules:

>>2184074
You're mistake is in assuming that you are dealing with reasonable and sane individuals.

>>2184088
god I love Building Based Countries

The Hansa also has some unique advances, of course:

… And much more, but that’s all for today! This is the schedule for the next week, which will be quite special, as being the Pre-Release Week!

Monday -> The fourth and final Tinto Flags, hosted by @SaintDaveUK !
Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour Special Edition, the last post of the series!
Wednesday -> Two main events!
The very last Tinto Talks post of the series, about the game Achievements, hosted by our dear Associate Producer @Dargeths !
Europa Universalis 5 Pre-Release Stream with the Paradox Tinto team!
Thursday -> EU5 Tutorial Video - "Everything you need to know before unpausing"
Friday -> First Pre-Release gameplay videos of EU5!
Sunday -> End of the embargo for all the Content Creators!

And also remember, you can Pre-Purchase Europa Universalis V now! Cheers, and Be Ambitious!

And some DHEs, of which I'll just show a couple:

>>2184074
It's young people without an identity that just copy whatever they see. Monkey see monkey do. There's a slight broken telephone aspect to this social behavior, so it gets reinforced. A small thing echoes and becomes a large wave. Young people look up to miserable bastards and emulate their behavior. Instead of realizing they respected those people for their wit, they go on and emulate a caricature of their idols.

That's an eternal problem that comes from terrible advice. "Be yourself" is what you have to do, but only those that don't need that advice can actually follow it. There is some truth to the fact that you're not dealing with a reasonable individual. You kind of have to get this through your thick skull. You might be thinking someone is arguing with you, but they might be just observing, understanding, remembering and applying things they previously saw. That's where buzzwords come from. A worrying number of people just go through the motions of arguing and expressing opinions, but they actually aren't arguing or expressing themselves.

is it leaked yet?

>>2184074
(you)

>>2184105
There won't be any leaks before released.

>>2184085
Wait, was London part of the Hanseatic League as well?

>>2184122
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelyard

I just want to be a banker and jew all over the world

>>2184095
>Young people look up to miserable bastards and emulate their behavior.
I thought zoomies most preferred energetic niggas like ishowspeed or innocuous fatties like caseoh

I LOVE CK2 probably my favorite strategy game of all time. I also really like Total War but the battles aren't good enough to keep me playing (they get boring after a bit but still fun) and obviously the campaign is extremely shallow compared to Ck2
Other Paradox games have been kind a"meh" from my POV.
I had one good game in EU4 but I found the roleplay potential kinda shallow and the end game fell off after the revolution hit. The warfare was fun and I enjoyed colonizing the new world but haven't been able to get back into it.
V2 is like playing with a black box. I wasn't around when it was new and everytime I try to play it I feel like I don't understand it at all and get overwhelmed and lose a war in spectacular fashion.
HOI4 I have never even figure out how to win a single battle let alone have fun lol I try to start as Italy and lose the fucking war against Ethiopia. Tried watching youtube videos and reading guides but I just don't understand how to get the soldiers to fight I draw the lines or tell them to move provinces and they stand there shooting for a month or whatever then lose to the fucking Africans.
Imperator was a lot of fun when I played it. I just did a Rome run and took down Carthage and Macedon. I enjoyed that game, struck a great balance between CK2 characters and EU4 improved warfare style. Only problem is I don't care much about the time period so unless I re-play as rome again there's literally no one else I care about in 300 BC yknow. Sorry I'm not a classical history autist but who the fuck else even was there? The (((Punic))) people? GTFOH
I haven't tried any of the other games desu but my brother said CK3 was better than CK2 but I kinda doubt that from what I've seen (I'm also still not done having fun in CK2 either lol)
Anyways my question is should I pre-order EU5 and play it on launch, or wait 3-5-10 years for it to get "fixed" first?
Don't have too much time as an adult but usually get a gsg run in around the holidays

>>2184127
Being something that doesn't come from within is miserable, no matter how it looks from the outside.

Nowadays it seems like everyone and their momma are making remasters and remakes of 15-20 years old games, so I wonder if PDX have any ideas to re-release old Clausewitz Engine games: EU3, HoI3, Vicky2, EURome, Sengoku, March of the Eagles? Nothing too outlandish: 64-bit, better multicore support, UI tweaks to accommodate higher resolutions, fix the most egregious leftover bugs, maybe redraw continent and province shapes for EU3 and HoI3, maybe fiddle with multiplayer code; then you sell 6 old games in a $60 bundle (free upgrades to already existing owners).

What the bloody hell did you just say about me, chap? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Royal marines, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on the zulu, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top rifleman in the entire of her majesties armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying that load of old rubbish to me over the Internet? Think again, chum. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of governor generals across the British Empire and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, chum. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re dead, mate. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my ships of the line. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Royal navy and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable arse off the face of the continent, you little state. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you bloody simple fool. I will pour subsidies all over you and you will drown in it. You’re dead, chum.

>>2183676
Arumba isn't blacklisted anymore.

>>2184137
why not?

>>2184139
No clue, just watched his stream a few days ago where he said he's cool with PDX now and that he has been playing EUV for a while.

>>2184148
Why would he just play EUV?

>>2184119
gay

>>2184129
Imo the coolest thing about CK3 is the mod that allows you to combine it with Attila TW to fight the battles.

paradox did the right thing when they black listed arumba
he should never be forgiven for what he did to his son.

>>2184152
Yeah I guess I'd be better off either playing another Ck2 run or giving 3 a shot.
Thanks anon.
Hope EU5 is fun for you all tho and maybe I'll pick it up in 3-5 years

>>2184129
>should I pre-order EU5 and play it on launch,
no, why should you?

>>2184135
Zero. There is no way Paradox is doing something that could atomize their fanbase. If any they are doing the opposite, like make older games unplayable so they jump ship to the new ones.

>>2184162
Well as I tried to explain I get limited amount of time for games. I usually get time for a run in the winter and another around the summer.
I usually play CK2 but I know EU5 is dropping soon and if it's gonna be the next best thing since sliced bread I figured I'd give it a shot but wanted to check in with you guys first since you're the experts here.
I've also never played a paradox game when it's new. In fact I think I've only played them after they've stopped releasing new DLC lmfao.

>>2184074
i confess having been cynical and that i'm only somewhat interested in the game to start with, but it's for the good of the maps-> 4chan is the antithesis that (hopefully) breeds a happy synthesis. without us, there would still be manas in your mapgame. you can thank us and us alone for imperator: rome

>>2184161
That is probably wise.
You'll get nothing worthwhile from preordering. Just some models for wonders on the map and those can be gained without preordering right now and will probably be available later anyway.
And it's not like they offer anything of value.

>>2184165
The only people that aren't optimistic are incels at /gsg/. Anyone that actually plays games is going to have a blast.

>>2184171
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwsht0Syj68
>>2184165
just wait a few days when it's out for non shills to play the game

>>2184173
>golden horde survived 500 years

>>2184169
Ok I wouldn't be able to play it first week of November anyways lol I had assumed it was going to include some kind of "special" giveaway (like posters from back in the day, anyone remember those) but yeah It doesn't actually make any difference to me at the end of the day and I won't have actual time to play until at least the beginning of December anyways.
Thanks for the advice
>>2184171
Don't get me wrong, I'm optimistic. That's why I was considering pre-ordering in the first place. My understanding is it will be essentially Imperator with a better time period and I really enjoyed Imperator. Maybe not as much as CK2 (IDK if I can enjoy another game as much as I like that one desu I get off on the whole roleplaying thing) but I want to play more Imperator just the issue is I don't give a fuck about 300 BC outside the Romans. In 14th century I can give a fuck about, at the very least, England, France, ERE, Ottomans, Austria / something else in the HRE and Castille. That's at least 5 campaigns of fun but if the game itself isn't "fixed" yet then it would just be a dissapointment yknow.
>>2184173
Yeah that's what I'm gonna do now, thank anon

>>2184171
This. So much this.

Hey guys it's me Johan
Please buy EU5
Playing mp right now pic related

>>2184182
>nobody picked prussia
Immeasurable cringe.

>>2184173
>posted it again award

>>2184182
based pdx leaker, make sure to obliterate the dave for me

>>2184182
Neat, an HQ image
I still don't think the UI is as atrocious as people say.

>>2184182
What the hell is going on with the king of Bulgaria's face

pretty cool you can play high elves in the base game

map looks very sweet

>>2184182
more like queendom of bulgaria amirite

>>2184182
>1419
>England blobbed
>Castile killed Granada
>Golden Horde exploded
nothingeverhappens sisters what's our response?

>>2184214
>england blobbed
Blind or?

>>2184221
Are you?

>>2184163
Well, technically, releasing such remasters would make games less playable per se, at least in the short run, because it would definitely break existing mods, and while Vicky2 modding community is still pretty much alive, I couldn't say the same about other games. Also, I don't think fragmentation is an issue, because nowadays EU3 and EU4 (and EU5) are fundamentally different games, each with its own set of pros and cons, they are not in direct competition with each other.

>>2184221
They ate most of scotland doebeit?

I HATE BYZABOOS
THE GAME SHOULD START IN 1453

>>2184232
Cope, seethe, dilate
The larping greeks will persist

>>2184232
Hush, watermelon seller.

>>2184232
you can crusade the Byzantines and wipe their dead empire off the map

>>2184232
I wonder who could be behind this post.

>>2183837
>Courtier
There is going to be a court??? Like in crusader kings?? I missed out on most of the content info drops but wtf is that

>>2184182
hey johan, its me Anonymous
please uncuck the ai before release

>>2184232
This but unironically. I like byz but this game should not be focused on it.
And btw 1453 would still be fine since you can restore it as the Despotate of Morea.

i guess they'll sell mission trees and flavour (like clothing that updates from century to century) piecemeal as dlc, and call it the solution to a problem they created. hard railroading for $$

>>2184085
>Hanseatic League seems very interesting to play, total new idea. But I just have to ask why London and Brugge have stripes on that map?
They also have an Italian bank at the location - Bardi, I think.

>>2184260
This is what I do as Cyprus and restore Kingdom of Jerusalem. Speaking of, there better be a KoJ tag in euV.

>>2184081
>Yay!!!! We get Reisläufer!!!
By the way, this is the unit, which has just been added to the main post:

>>2184263
Yeah, it's a Tier 2 formable

>>2184225
They took a nibble out of scotland while wales remains untouched.

>>2184260
The game is not about Byzaboos or Turks, its about the western Europe. It is literally called "Europe Universal". Therefore, you need a start date that has significance in Western history, which is either 1337 (the start of Hundred Years' War) or 1356 (Diet of Metz and the Golden Bull).

>>2184273
1453 is also the end of the hundred year's war

>>2184273
>start date
That'll be 29.99, saar.

>>2184272
>while wales remains untouched.
Wales is their vassal

how good is vassal swarm in this game

>>2183882
EU3 became playable only after third major expansion, Vicky 2 only after a couple of patches, CK2 was playable right of the bat. The question you should be asking is how long untill Paradox titles get unplayable, because IMO almost every one of their flagship games became worse with subsequent patches and DLCs: EU4, Stellaris, CK2 (although they didn't ruin it too much), CK3.

>>2184290
You're forgetting HOI4. Feels very shitty post Gotterdammerung.

>>2184232
>t.

>>2184276
De jure end is insignificant, the outcome was decided around 1444, when Treaty of Tours was attempted.

>>2184292
To me it's felt shitty since the naval update

>>2184303
the de jure end was in the 1470s when the treaty was signed, the actual end was when england was kicked out of france

>>2184273
hyw was not significant and the bull was just a formality, 1444 is a better startdate simply by being closer to the age of colonialization and reformation

>>2184314
Drown lying face down in a puddle of thick cum you nigger, I fucking hate you

>>2184321
black bull death is a fun concept thoughbeit

>>2184327
this is an anonymous website, anon
your reputation hasn't been destroyed by being easily BTFO in this argument
oh, and I accept your concession

>>2184273
>The game is not about Byzaboos or Turks, its about the western Europe.
>about the western Europe.
wipe out esls drag them out of their huts and rape their parents in front of them and shoot them in the back of the neck die die die you ugly brown barely sentient fuck die die die

>>2184331
lol, does Starmer know you are posting here? go back or get fined

>>2184327
Why you pretend to be me ?
Come, put your head on my lap and take a whiff of my nasy stinky Penis Erection. Maybe I use your mouth as a wet hole to relief stress. Bitch

>plays EUROPA universalis
>complains about ESLs
Why are thirdies like this?

>>2184333
just so you know I am stronger than you and if you really pissed me off I could easily overpower you in your shitty little ESLhovel and destroy your entire nasty stinking cockroach family in front of you. die nigger die

>>2184336
Stroking my nasty little penis erection right now :-DD HeHe I call it my 'zizi' :-DDD Cum cum play with my little zizi right now you beautiful budding nymphlet :-DD my zizi so cold it need warm crevice to make cummy funny pleasure relief in :-DD

>>2184331
didnt readed lul

>>2184292
I haven't touched it whatsoever. I played only TDH and HoI3, and never extensively.

imagine think being a britisher is something be proud of ha

No grand strategy game will ever come close to the experience that is coloring in maps of Victoria 2 provinces in paint and looking at 19th century resource maps.

>>2184403
What you fucking say about russia? I fucking kill you dead.

leaked zimbabwe government reform: the zutt

zutt is the most forced india coded meme in history

m*slim clitties already leaking

>>2184388
>No grand strategy game will ever come close to the experience that is coloring in maps of Victoria 2 provinces in paint and looking at 19th century resource maps.
Vicky2 was mostly EU3 with more detailed economics and population mechanics and less sandbox.

How would you even railroad EU?
With the Victorian era the entire thing is basically a visual novel of events, Oriental crisis, springtime of nations, Crimean war, American civil war, unification of Germany, colonization of Africa, balkan wars, ww1, they all chain on one to the next.

There isn't a single muti-nation era defining event from 1337 to the reformation.

>>2184441
>How would you even railroad EU?
For the Glory AGCEEP.

>>2184442
qrd?

>>2184290
>CK2 was playable right of the bat
>no muslims
>no hindus
???

>>2184449
https://agceep.org/FAQ.htm

>>2184403
top left is cute tho

obvious best move is to develop AI that not only plays under the same constraints as player (as they tout), but also plays /like/ a player, as in, has their own objectives and personalities indwelt. a crack AI team would have been a sensible and forward-thinking move for their company

instead i forsee them using the barren landscape of directionless AIs as an excuse to create (and sell) mission trees to which the AI all blindly follow, while snowballing on meth-modifiers as they do. and they will psy-op the reddit and the plaza to say that this is good, this is the solution to a boring singleplayer game

that's how you railroad EU. instead of giving colourful personality to the map, you tell it exactly what to do, so it at least does something, and you milk your customerbase the whole way to that very uninteresting, very soulless end-reality

please don't do this johan. think of the divine one

>>2184452
did he be stutter?

>>2184424
yeah, it was good.

>>2184456
Just clarifying that his opinion is, indeed, dogshit.

>>2184459
Exactly how many games of CK2 have you played in India?

>>2184015
>collective ownership is when you gibsmedat for free
Sasuga, R*dditor

>>2184458
Wait, was his post supposed to be a criticism of V2? I genuinely read it as a compliment.

>>2184452
But base mechanics were already implemented and they were good for the most part, then it was just a question of adding the flavour. BTW, this is the only way swarm of DLCs may actually improve the game, by growing it lateral, not vertical by implementing and reimplementing base game mechanics the way every PDX game since EU4 seems to do, no matter whether people actually want it or not.

>>2184441
>they all chain on one to the next.
explain how the crimean war chains into the american civil war

>>2184015
When was this post made?
Optimal strat in V3 for the last year at least has been to capitalistmaxx.
The state construction simply can't keep up with demand as quickly as the private sector can. Without capitalism you're essentially playing whack-a-mole, you have an iron shortage in your construction centers so you build iron mines but then you have a tool shortage so you build tools but then you have a steel shortage so you build more coal, etc, etc.

>>2184015
>>2184462
this take is like being mad that the avengers aren't real in marvel movies LMAO. lefties are genuinely braindead

>>2184466
I just wanted to include America, desu. they're irrelevant to 19th century politics.

>>2184463
It was both. Vicky 2 was pretty good even when rebels were everywhere, Hawaii were an intellectual centre of the world and Prussia was yellow, but it didn't feel as particularly groundbreaking experience coming after HttT and Divine Wind: just another good Paradox game.

>>2184403
Anarchist, actually. Recall the Dithmarschen mission tree.

Maybe a bit syndicalist, if the Bukharin side of the Soviet focus tree is any indication?

the revolutionary war used to be the soul of eu.. eu3 at least (the better of the two eu's that came out)
it would be rather epic if you could play england up 'til 18th century and then switch to washington at war's start

>>2184472
>Hawaii were an intellectual centre of the world
what

>>2184476
The default country that every mechanic has been based around has always been England -> Britain -> America.

>>2184475
>paradox adding any tree whatsoever means they endorse that ideology
by this logic gotterdamrung made them esoteric hitlerists

>>2184482
It's not about the tree, as it is about the mechanics. Missions trees came very late in the game's life.

>It's no secret that Victoria 3 is in many ways the Historical Materialism Simulator.
On the other hand, Victoria 3 is openly using Marxist theory, even more so than Victoria 2 had.

>inb4 theorylets don't know what "Consciousness" was supposed to be

In HoI4's case, they tried to be "neutral" on politics, and avoided discussion of any warcrimes, which was actually the best representation fascists could ever hope for, and now the community is full of them.

>>2184182
Cringe, no free frisia.

>>2184493
Paradox are generic neo-liberals. Communists wouldn't be falling over themselves backwards to rename Kiev to Kyiv.

>>2184232
Dilate turkroach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ72DPKi8Tk&list=RDBZ72DPKi8Tk&start_radio=1

>>2184472
prussian yellow was sovl

>>2184504
...said no one ever

>>2184499
Well, they are part of the West, still. And, uhh, it's not a good time to start picking hills to die on. They probably have dynamic naming, anyway.

>>2184507
I just said it

>>2184508
It wouldn't surprise me if they had it set to remain as kyiv even if Moscow takes it.
Not that the Moscow AI ever will, because they've purposefully gimped them. Always see Kyiv blobs though.

>>2184511
mindbroken

>>2184508
>>2184511
oinkers are getting btfo on steam forums about adding a "ukrainian" localization (lol)

Based on them adding an entire mechanic around "Stalin's paranoia" in HoI4 the devs are either liberal retards who get their info from pop history youtube shorts or seething Trotskyists. Given they also added a meme path for him to take over Mexico and from there the world I would assume the latter.

>>2184273
>Therefore, you need a start date that has significance in Western history
If any that's 1492, the start of the globalization era and when european kingdoms became global powers.

>>2184526
1453 works better because it gives a build up to that event instead of just starting from the discovery of the new world.
The same reason HoI starts in 1936 instead of 1939.

>>2184273
these are all valid

Europa Universalis should be based around Europa becoming Universalis (age of discovery)
1337 is too early for this. They solely chose it to justify Europe having the same tech as Zimbabwe the entire game just like EU4.

>>2184273
which is why it's so important the AI actually DOES SHIT in western europe historically relative to the start date; i.e. why it would be a launch disaster if the timelapses are even 50% accurate

>>2184477
IIRC, it was very easy for 1PM countries to achieve very high levels of literacy, which meant more research points (and I believe that overall population size wasn't a factor back then, or at least it wasn't as important), and since they didn't need to pass reforms then and the entire unciv "mechanic" was basically "you start with restrictive tech school, then you research certain techs and pass the decision to "revert" to Traditional Academia +0% in order to lift research point penalties", so you just speedran necessary techs, get westernized, and after that you can learn any tech you like as fast as any progressive European power.

>>2184527
May 30th 1453*

>>2184521
They also made the Soviet Union the most overpowered country in HoI4.

>152 states
>438 building slots
>Move Industry to the Urals is permanent and makes every state past the AA line a 25 slot
>all those Stalin focuses and modifiers
>you can clown on Sweden during the Winter war
>you can trigger Desperate Measures early through the Gobi Gambit
Like, bro.

>>2184536
It was very easy for every country to achieve high levels of literacy, you just increased clergy to 4%
Which was still better than Victoria 3 where literacy basically doesnt matter. Even extremely low literacy pops have enough "qualifications" to get a factory job, so you can have turbo-wakanda where no body can read.

>>2184539
That's just Paradox balance™, they can't simulate minor fluctuations having larger effects so they need to have the USSR go from the biggest shithole in history to the most powerful nation on Earth.

>>2184545
which is exactly what they did from 1936 to 1950

>>2184540
>literacy basically doesnt matter
Do you even fucking play the game? Tech spread depends on Literacy rate, and being behind on tech hurts, a lot. If you're population is too high, you NEED to get to Central Archives, and the faster, the better.

>>2184548
I mean it barely matters for industrialization. Obviously long term you want tech, but my point is Rwanan nations shouldn't be able to build iron factories from the start of the game, much less get people employed in them.

>>2184272
>a nibble
Nigga, they took most of it—all the most valuable land too.

>>2184540
>Even extremely low literacy pops have enough "qualifications" to get a factory job
That's real life, do you think all the people working on sweatshops are literate?

>>2184556
No.
But the literal tribes wouldn't know the first thing about creating iron factories.
Sweatshops came out of Europeans colonizing them and giving them the technology which they inherited. At least that's how it went in India and Indonesia.

>>2184499
why
how is that relevant to the marxist economic theory

>>2184539
yea if you forget about civil war part

>>2184553
>iron factories
They can't. They only have 1 tech from each tree. And Tier 1 is pre-1836 tech.

>>2184546
Neither Russia was a shithole in 1936 (or 1919), nor was the most powerful nation on Earth.

>>2184546
>>2184546
Neither Russia was a shithole in 1936 (or 1919), nor was the most powerful nation on Earth in 1950.

>>2184555
A big nibble is still a nibble.

>>2184568
It isn't. But communists see the Ukraine war as NATO imperialism, using Ukraine as a puppet state against Russia.
The basis for this is a leaked phonecall made by a US diplomat where she was discussing who should go into the Ukrainian government. Despite the fact Ukraine was supposed to be a democracy elected by the Ukrainian people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k

>>2184586
you dont need to be a communist to understand that, there is no other perspective except the growth of GAE, other than the lies for retarded peasants i guess.

>spam reporting someone because something they said offended you
Reddit behaviour.

>Victoria 3 incorporates Marxist theory, particularly historical materialism, by making a nation's economic system the primary driver of its political landscape. The game simulates class struggle, where a population's economic role and interests (e.g., industrialists vs. trade unions) determine the interest groups that form, which in turn shape political ideologies and laws. This view of history prioritizes material conditions over individual leaders or abstract ideas.

and now they are doing the same exact thing a second time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S9J-EkCcYs

i didn't read the devdiaries but i am becoming tweaked at the thought of campaigning. one vital question: have they shown any mechanics for 'reducing' certain unwanted minority populations? thank you in advance

does colonization get fleshed out more? cant find much on it

>>2184602
Good. That's how you know the game will be good.

"Medieval history has been characterized largely by the class struggle between landed nobility and burgher-merchants" is, like, the least controversial thing Marxist historians suggested.

Or, wait, were people expecting Johan to go full Great Man Theory on EU5?

>>2184608
watch the video and tell me how many people would want to play this

>>2184585
>My Lord, noble King of Scots, the English have conquered more than three fourths of our country and hold our capital!
>Tis’ but a big nibble.

>>2184615
Me. Me Me Me.

Blobbers can go die in a fire.

>>2184622
>Blobbers
the video is about economy retard

>>2184624
Yes. And who objects to the economy being sophisticated and not just a mana printer to fund your military?

>>2184625
People who actually play games instead of watching youtubers play them.

>>2184627
>sir, a second retard filter has hit the Paradox community
Don't know what this projection is, I almost never watch youtubers play grand strats. Except Bokoen1, and that's just for friend-group MP banter, and/or to laugh at the dumb mod they made.

Next you'll tell me that fucking Stellaris' economy is too complicated.

>>2184625
it took me 2 attempts in vic3 to realize that i will not be playing this. In a series called europa universalis i expect to get technological advancement, colonialism and warfare, not class struggle to justify later communism.

>>2184634
But class struggle is all of those things? How do you get filtered by markets and taxes?

>>2184637
(you)
Don't spend it all in one place.

>>2184637
how did eu4 manage to work without simulating the economic state of an individual peasant at any given moment

>>2184641
By being a fucking boring blobbing sim.

>>2184625
>And who objects to the economy being sophisticated and not just a mana printer to fund your military?
JUDEN

>>2184643
weird, for some reason it is 3 times more popular than the communist manifesto sim tho

>>2184651
2 times. And we're comparing two different time periods.

Did you just now realize that you're about to get filtered by the game? It's out in less than two weeks.

What the fuck did you think all that "kneeling" posting was about? Did you believe Paradox was going to make EU4 even simpler?

>>2184655
^this
Less blobbing and more complexity is good

Johan-sama's aura is indefeatable....

>>2184655
I want to be able to play the game for 1000 hours and still not fully understand everything. Not even kidding or baiting. The best part of these games is trying to figure it out while shit hits the fan and dealing with the difficulty of not knowing the optimal moves.

>>2184608
I swear, people have no clue which parts of Marx's ideas are actually worthwhile disagreeing with.

>>2184742
propaganda in vydia is always bad because it takes priority over fun

>>2184758
>using the subjective, personal, unfalsifiable f-word
It's fun to me. Fuck off.

>>2184758
If Marx states that people need work to survive under capitalism, are you going to argue against the idea because it's from Marx?

>>2184770
i just want to play videogames

https://youtube.com/shorts/7nrQcPUwU8k?si=C-WgE_uSCp3Y2-Us
>calvinists get 'everything is preordained'
>the first roll you get during combat is the roll you get for the rest of the battle
This is funny and retarded as fuck at the same time. The meta is gonna be save scumming this roll.

>>2184742
>Völkerabfälle (in German) is a term used by Frederick Engels to describe small nations which he considered residual fragments of former peoples who had succumbed to more powerful neighbours in the historic process of social development and which Engels considered prone to become "fanatical standard-bearers of counter-revolution".
>Engels was referring also specifically to the Serb uprising of 1848–49, in which Serbs from Vojvodina fought against the previously victorious Hungarian revolution.

>implying they read Marx and Engels to even know what to disagree with

>>2184771
Then why the fuck are you in a thread about a historical game, if you hate history? Plenty of other shit out there.

Wonderproductions is a nigger.

>>2184771
If someone says
>the economy involves buying and selling goods
>workers sell their labor for wages
>factories and machines increase productivity
>money mediates economic exchange
Are you going to stop playing the Marxist video game?

Marx is a retard when he states that the contradictions of capitalism will lead to its downfall. It's stupid on so many levels. At least understand what you're against. I have no love for Marx politically, but you've just lost the plot if you don't understand why someone might include a Marxist model in a video game. There's nothing propagandistic about it.

>>2184786
People forget that Marx is one of the fathers of sociology outside of his economics and even his economic theories, while solidly heterodox are well appreciated for their original intellectual significance, even leaving aside their actual impact itself. The guy was a historical heavyweight.

>>2184795
It's very true and it's unfortunately clear where people miss the mark on this.
I think someone summed it really well. I remember who I'm paraphrasing here. Politicians and voters aren't actually stupid. Politics is fucking stupid. It makes people stupid because they have to adapt to the stupidity of cheerleading the tribalism of ideas while reducing the ideas into us and them.

its so over for paradox gsg's
every game is going to be about painfully detailed class struggle now

>dumb, casual blobber scum is getting filtered out of Paradox
A blessed turn of events.

>>2184655
>you're going to get filtered by a shit game
What?

>>2184606
Yes and no, the colonization mechanics are kinda the same, but now colonies don't give you profits right away as you have to invest in them in order to fully exploit them later.

>>2184777
>quotes wikipedia articles
>bitches about people not reading marx and engels
huh

karl marx's sugardaddy was engels who paid for his rent because he was a bum

>>2184771
Based

>modeling complex economic systems in a historical video game is Marxism
I don’t get it. What’s the complaint? No, I will not read the back and forth arguing above.

>>2184867
Reactionaries are brainlets. News at 11.

>>2184872
If you are so smart why are you poor?

>>2184879
Since when does capitalism reward intelligence?

>>2184884
Quants doctors etc etc

>>2184891
Elon Musk

>>2184893
Yeah?

>>2184895
Yeah.

>Eu4 was released 12 years ago
>I was 19 years old
What the fuck man.
How the fuck am I meant to find time to play Eu5? I've got a job, house, wife.
Shit is gay man.
Just want to be neet again.

>>2184872
Why do they always btfo you then? If they're retarded wtf are you? Barely sentient? Here comes the cope

>>2184187
Prussia without the Hohenzollerns just doesn't feel the same.

>>2184777
This is a game that takes place before commies polluted the history of the world with an awful ideology that resulted in the death of dozens of millions of people.
I don't need to read useless marxist drivem in the EUV thread.

>>2184936
Not your safe space.

>>2184937
Shut the fuck up dumb nigger.

>>2184936
>This is a game that takes place before commies polluted the history of the world
This is true, although Jacobinism and Freemasonry were not much better.

>>2184806
Sort of sounds like when you spend mana to increase or decrease their taxes in the subjects tab.
I honestly kinda like that slow start desu, makes things more strategic in where you want to land.
Might make colonization slower so that the entire new world isn't already done by 1600.

>>2183583
He said Vic 2 you fucking baboon, not 3. 3 is way more lenient on you playing uncivilized countries.

In 2, you basically do nothing besides fighting some niggerblob or hordeblob for years since all your stacks are shit

>>2184939
I'd argue Jacobins were as violent as commies, at least in theory, but they did not have as much reach.

>>2184943
Jacobins were proto-commies in the sense that they wanted to destroy the current status quo and establish themselves as the rulers, but commies also had a whole "theology" behind their reasonings that actually was attractive with some of the "common folk" and the masses.
Well, it also helped the fact of Russia became communist and the epicenter of the movement and that they started exporting the ideology to half the world after WW2.

>>2184969
>>2184943
Insights from third worlders

>>2184969
>they started exporting the ideology to half the world after WW2
does he know?

>>2184975
Communism, by definition, is a third world ideology.

>>2184986
? By the different definitons it would be a first world (as in the western advanced economies, because it was conceptualized there), a second world (as in the part of the world aligned with the Soviet Union, which was the spearhead of communism) or a first world again (using the same definition of western advanced economies - as Marx predicated that it would only work when capitalism and industrialization brings about its own end through late stage capitalism)

>>2184941
Read it again dipshit. Esl or just retarded? Do you know what the word ALTERNATIVE fucking means?

>>2184905
>already having to plan things more than a week in advance so I can try and play for two hours on release day
The older I get the more I begin to think the NEET guys in the trailer park are on to something

>>2184940
I guess if you see pops as mana, it kinda is.
But honestly, where do you draw the line on what is and isn't mana?

>>2185049
well there is no mana i believe in EU5 right? some things in EU4 where mana was okay was devving and through diplomatic interactions with your vassals/colonies.
teching up through mana though i think is hindering and could be done better. how? i do not know.

>>2184202
It's a bulgarian, 100% steppe ancestry

>>2183039
>>2183295
now THIS is kino #ExWorld

>>2184602
>Victoria 3 incorporates Marxist theory, particularly historical materialism, by making a nation's economic system the primary driver of its political landscape. The game simulates class struggle, where a population's economic role and interests (e.g., industrialists vs. trade unions) determine the interest groups that form, which in turn shape political ideologies and laws. This view of history prioritizes material conditions over individual leaders or abstract ideas.

that's not even true, maybe you could say rich pop's will influence politics, but Vic3 has racism, religious intolerance, nationalism and ideologies built into it

>>2184777
Hungarians were revolutionaries that were revolting against Austrian rule so how exactly does this fit into the theory?

>>2184805
>>2184804
>the cope of another failed paradox title is already prepared
>its not garbage design
>you are getting filtered!!!11

>>2185092
filtered

>>2185084
ehm, yea, all with accordance with the marx's theory

>>2185049
Mana theory is well understood if you don't listen to Johan muddying the waters.

>It's acquired trough means you largely con't control means, where key factors are large share of the income belonging to base value and/or RNG value and very little is determined by the size of your country.
Monarch points are mana because Ulm a 1 province minor gets +3 from existing, +5 from RNG and +3 from an advisor while Ming a superpower gets +3 from existing, +3 from RNG and +5 from an advisor.
Money is not mana because Ulm gets +20 from being small and Ming gets +2000 from being huge
>It's acquired trough means that do not make sense narratively, it just "appears"
MP is mana because most of it comes from random modifiers, base and RNG monarch while minority comes from advisors (which make sense).
Money is not mana because vast majority of your income comes from trade and taxes instead of base value
>It's banked and spent retroactively
MP is mana because you bank it and then instantly invent a tech or dev a province.
Money is not mana because if you want a ship now you need to invest into it 2 years ago.
>It's spent trough means that do not make sense narratively and often contradict each other
MP is mana because if you choose to invent a new ship that prevents you from absorbing your vassal and also investing into a sugar plantation. If you storm a lot of forts you can't upgrade your military tactics even though that should help you in developing better approach, the best way to get a military is to not ever fight to conserve mana.
Money is not mana because it's used in sensible things, you can buy a ship or a plantation and while you can't get both it makes sense, you only have so much money.

Pops are not mana as far as I have seen, though the game may prove me wrong because they don't fill the above conditions

>>2185049
>>2185095
It should be noted that just because they are not mana doesn't mean that they are good, mana can be a good game mechanic too. You just have to watch out for Johan and his strawmans.

commies got filtered by reality, even china got rich by establishing special economic zones which are full capitalist city states, and everyone who stuck with communism remained a shithole like north korea

>>2185094
but industrialists vs trade unions class struggle did not determine shit in history nor do they do in the game

>>2185051
EU3 tech system was fine
they should have kept that system (and sliders) and added EU4's national idea trees with mana only being used for ideas and specialized things like speeding up cores/integrations/conversions, certain military and diplo actions, basically all the minor uses of mana in EU4
even better, they could have the mana pool for selecting ideas come from mana spent in interactions, so if you do lots of military stuff you are forced to choose military ideas, thus your nation's character is dependant on its actual behavior

Why the fuck do you guys keep falling for Paradox's scams every time?
You know full well the game will be a complete mess at launch

>>2185049
You don't need a fine line with fuzzy logic. You can call gold mana, and there's a hint of truth to that. It's still a hint, because it's not abstracted like mana. It's misguided "philosophizing" that misses how words function in general. The mana meme works because it's more clear what the fuck mana is than what a "person" is. What the fuck are you, objectively? You keep changing all the time. Parts of your rancid biological shell seep into the background. And apparently after you die, you're you somehow. You're a corpse in a ground, and somehow that's you. Where do you draw the line?

Mana is more clear as a concept than a person.

>>2184777
>i'm graciously going to let you off with a warning this time but I better not see you vaguely contradicting me again or we're going to have some problems humph
the mods on this board are so weird.

>>2185126
kek that's pathetic

>>2184813
i detect moderation bias

>>2185095
I think the most mana that mana can be is abstracting power as a currency.
You gather up power juice to use your power. Gold isn't mana because gold isn't power abstracted as currency. Gold is a currency. Pops aren't mana, because they are not abstracting power as a currency. It's kind of simple if you actually evaluate what's going on.

What's he thinking right now? Does he realize he's just killed all the hype for this game?

>>2185161
How? Sorry I just realized there is actually a EUV coming out (allegedly)

Since there's no EUIV thread, i want to ask. I'm doing a Persian Zoroastrian run and want to mass convert other countries to Zoro to bump up my Defender of the Faith tiers. However, whenever i declare a holy war, i dont get the option to actually force convert other countries.

What's the best way to go after this?

>>2185167
You need to declare zutthad first.

>>2185167
>>2170868

>>2184602
Vicky 3 isn't even Marxist. This discussion has been done a thousand times.
But Marxists do latch onto Vicky 3 because you can make wholesome screenshots of Marx ruling a TRVE COMMVNIST country.

>>2184290
>Vicky 2 only after a couple of patches
Not really. They never even fixed the issue of the late game economy imploding due to running out of cash.
>although they didn't ruin it too much
Am I the only one who think the last patch close to broke the game due to how inanely powerful it made crusades?

>>2185170
mustve missed that

>>2184602
>This view of history prioritizes material conditions over individual leaders or abstract ideas.
Where do you people get your ideas about this game from? Since it's possible for interest groups to get leaders who are completely opposed to its interests, you may get a market reformer for the landlords who lets you completely defang them early game.

who do you trust more:
the people who shilled victoria 3 or your own eyes?

>>2183295
>Wisconsin, New Hampshire, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, and Iceland all left perfectly intact
Why?

>>2185219
my eyes are really bad at thinking

>>2184776
No one is going to bother doing that except for extreme IGT speedruns.

I am back. I had to take a break after that dev diary about Poland. God I fucking hate Poland and Polacks.

>>2185221
smol

>>2185219
My eyes see a good game and victoria 3 shills are coping over JoGod eternally btfoing wiz

>>2185247
You are Polish.

>>2185254
I would be long dead by suicide if that were true

>>2185254
NOOOOOOOOOOOURRGGHHHKUUUUURRRRRWA!

>>2185255
Quintessentially Polish response.

>>2185248
But tons of other much smaller places got split up.

PAIN IS
SALVATION

FREE FROM
TEMPTATION

uh oh.....
johan's not gonna like this one....

just have an option to disable railroading, this was figured out a long time ago
fucking give AI countries/leaders ambitions
>VGHHH I WANNA RECONQUER ROME

>>2185304
Reading between the lines, he makes it sound like it's unfinished but good. Let's see the state of the game.

They really fucked up not starting the game in 1444. When you have the Golden Horde and Yuan still in existence, hearing the hoofbeats of the steppes and conquering all plains under the eternal sky is just not the same.

>>2185339
they are supposed to collapse

>>2185345
the game should start with them already collapsed

>>2185169
These zutt astroturf are literally done by paid kikes btw

the tsigan cries in pain as he robs you

>>2185350
its still funny though

>>2185350
its a good meme regardless
not gonna spread it since they aint paying me, but that don't make it not funny

>>2185304
>>2185377
He looks like he hasn't slept

>>2185452
He watched the timelapse same as the rest of us

>>2185452
he got the call

burgundy is blue on the map and probably will never blob as there's nothing in the game to make it likely or even feasible
same goes for austria - no bohemian election, no hungarian inheritance
i go back to the devdiaries and realize they never actually detailed anything interesting about the countries mechanically - i just thought they did
they only simulate the first twenty or thirty years with some loose railroading in which period %50 of your country dies
eu5 is the clearest indication yet that paradox hates its players

>>2185463
>burgundy is blue on the map
it's blue because it's a vassal of France which is blue, this is a game setting you can toggle on and off
> and probably will never blob as there's nothing in the game to make it likely or even feasible
There's a button in the HYW situation specifically to backstab France which Burgundy can press

If you didn't read every tinto talk then shut the FUCK up in my thread casual

humiliation ritual

>>2185466
i stand corrected
and since it's on topic what colour is your hair again?

>>2185468
Blond, though you already knew that

>>2185467
Is that John Universalis?

>>2185467
>humiliation ritual
its so on the nose and blatant, people were just too hyped to notice
they literally use BBC and expect people to use it seriously

>>2185471
No, that's Jöhan Universålis

john is a byword. paradox is the great whore

>game comes out in early November
>EBT cancelled for that month
see y'all in 4 years when a democrat president brings it back, game will be good by then anyways

>>2185477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di0eo7YKmS4

>>2184540
>>2184553
Anyone want to give a reason why some people feel so strongly about a game they've never played and have no intention to ever play that they feel a need to make stuff up about it?

>>2185477
are you people really too retarded to have $60 in the backhand? Is your impulse control that low? what are you even spending all your money on

>>2185473
>they literally use BBC and expect people to use it seriously
only mutts and indians get riled up by this

>>2185521
>what are you even spending all your money on
Depending on racial stereotypes it could be anything from shoes to avocado toast.

>>2185551
Don't forget counter strike skins

>>2185463
>they only simulate the first twenty or thirty years with some loose railroading in which period %50 of your country dies
Are you genuinely retarded? What else would they possibly have put in the dev diary?
Do you leave negative reviews for restaurants because you walked in and they served you food?

wiz shills out in force

Will province names change depending on the culture that owns them?

that feature will be sold seperately, along with the AI

>>2185640
meant for
>>2185623

>>2185623
kyiv is hardcoded

>>2185623
yes there's a tinto talk about it and no i can't be assed to look it up for you

the game is such a bloat, there is no way ai will manage to use all the shit that is in it, and it doesnt, timelapse has demonstrated that

>>2185669
MPchads we won

>>2185679
their unusual attention to mp this time explains a lot.

>>2185681
>unusual
Nah it's just that Johan likes MP and sympathizes with the plight of those trying to play MP in CK3 and Vic3 who can't even chat without a separate program.

What benefits will there be to having a BBC (Building Based Country) inside of me?
Why should I let them build in me? How can I be sure I have a symbiotic relationship with the BBC and not a purely parasitic one?

epic reddit meme there mr mutt

>>2185748
Stop kidding, everyone craves the BBC

>>2185754
>stop nooticing!

>>2185708
isn't there some MP stream scheduled or am I a schizo

>>2185768
Maybe you're thinking of the pre-release stream with the Tinto guys this Wednesday?

>>2185748
A tall BBC inside of you could help you expand wide by allowing you to set them as your national bank, and the jobs worked by them may provide other bonuses.
Late game, the benefits of a BBC may not be as worth it as they are early game, but time will tell.

mutt's law

>>2185812
whiter than you muhammad al'zutt

this mutt got really defensive about his negro fetish kek

>>2185812
Saar, do the needful and go back

>>2185679
I imagine MP wars are going to be an even bigger slog in this than they are in EU IV. Some retard will be able to do more to completely ruin his nation in an attempt to try to kill you with population and levy mechanics.

>>2185838
Imagine having a bank player manipulating things behind the scenes to fill you country with bad pops and drag you into wars.

>>2185788
that's probably it

>>2185838
I will only play island nations in MP and laugh at continentals while I rule the waves

>>2185838
>players might end up death warring out of spite
>conquered territory ends up being a net drain
Well say what you want MP with MA Ermor characteristics wasn't on my bingo card for EU5.