It's time to accept that Western indies produce better models than Japanese corpos.

>>101729886 (OP)
They only thing that I‘m going to produce is 10 children with saba. Maybe more.

>>101729886 (OP)
soulless vs SOVL

>>101729886 (OP)
Better rigging, sure.
Better models, as in designs? We need to talk.

>>101729943
Only a Holocuck blind retard can say Holocuck have better models, keep seething, Cover is over.

>>101729977
Only an indietard will think that more attributes always equals better, like oshi like fanbase

>>101729886 (OP)
>japanese corpos
name 5 corps

>>101729886 (OP)
Corpocucks will tell you the right one has "soul"

>>101729908

>>101729886 (OP)
>Stolen reference from G41
> call it a day
Western artist are shameless.

>>101729886 (OP)
Designs I think is a tossup.
Rigging, western for sure.

>>101730092
>not loli
into the trash it goes

>>101730092
thanks anon. Dear lord she was reminding me of someone and it was bugging the fuck out of me trying to remember who it was.

>>101729943
one on the left looks better I might actually start watching her

>>101730113
G41 is less than 100 cm

>>101729886 (OP)
Still shocking to this very day that the biggest vtuber of all time never got even remotely decent rigging. Cover sabotaged her from day 1.

>>101729908
You what

>>101730129
do not care, tits 2 big

>>101730154
Same size as saba tho

>>101730173
why lie? saba has nipples and thats it

>>101730092
these look different anon

The Gura design is iconic. However, the industry has grown and changed a lot since then, and the Gura design is now old and dated. The new design is much more appealing to todays standards. You're allowed to have a preference, but the new design is the objectively correct choice for the current market.

>>101729886 (OP)
Gura will forever be more iconic.

>>101730184
Fish don't have nipples.

>>101730192
>more iconic
DBZ-tard argument lmao
that still does not mean its better

>>101729908
She looks very fertile for her age.

>>101730190
I don't know about all that but both of them make my dick hard and that's all I care about

>>101729886 (OP)
put the left one in one of those group pics with 50 literal who enwhores and you'd forget which one she is

cover is stagnant and on the way out. they got set in their ways too early while the industry was still developing and now theyre paying the price.

>>101729886 (OP)
The key difference lies in the accountability and priorities of indie creators versus large corporations when it comes to character rigging.

Wealthier independent creators, both Western and otherwise, are typically invested in continuously improving their rigging. This is because the models are their own, and they bear sole responsibility for the final quality of their work.

Conversely, larger corporations often show less concern for pushing the boundaries of rigging quality. If a rig is "good enough" to get the job done, it's considered acceptable. Management often isn't willing to invest in hiring more skilled riggers and artists, or to pay existing staff more for the incremental improvements needed to refine every detail. From a financial perspective, they may not see this as efficient, because simps will pay regardless of these refinements.

Guras design was so unsexy. That fucking hoodie ruined everything. Saba is sex and she knows it. She requested that she can expose her naked tummy UUUUUUUUUUOOOOOOOHHHHHH

western models are overdone, they look like gelatin jiggling everywhere for no reason. absolute shit.
only the japanese know how it is supposed to be done

>>101730290
Not only that, if somebody gets a new rig, they ACTIVELY GIVE THEM A WORSE RIG TO START.
Seriously, why the fuck did Advent and Justice have to "get a 1.0 and 2.0" instead of rigging them 3.0 from the ground up? Hell, even 3.0 is years behind a generic indie model.

going full loli is a bigger debuff than bad rigging.

The Saba design has the best part of the Gura model. The tail. That's all that matters. God I wanna rub my dick on that fat tail.

>>101730312
The corpo cum is oozing out of your mouth

I love her rigging. Second best upgrade in vtubing history, just behind Minki.

>>101730328
Twittertranny spotted

>>101730328
Hmmm yes the most popular vtuber being a loli was a debuff. For sure.

>>101730351
seethe

>>101730397
do not forget to swallow

>>101730312
Nyfco levels of retardation

>>101729886 (OP)


The problem is that she has a SHARK TAIL and MAMMAL EARS at the SAME TIME and this is NOT OKAY

>>101730328
Ironic pedos is a big audience nowadays

>>101730008
>less is more

>>101730008
Have you seen Vivi or Polka?

>>101730472
It's not okay, it's GREAT. Cute ears and fat tail. Ahhhh I'm gonna cum

>>101730379
>just behind Minki
That's because it's from the same rigger.

>>101730481
Go back 2 reddit

>>101729886 (OP)
Yesn't Gura's character design looks better (white hair+ blue highlights, huge ass tail, etc), but Saba's outfit and rigging are miles better

>>101730328
Question can saba take the heat, or the anxiety back in Hololive was an act?

>>101730351
Not as much as mine oozing out of Saba's ass

I'm just going to say it. Saba's design is literally just Gura but blonde and with cat ears and a different outfit and better rigging.

>>101729886 (OP)
>Gura 2.0 but blond and with nekomimi
What was the real reason she quit hololive again?

>>101729943
>>101729977
I haven't watched Holo for quite a long time but I do miss the more scuffed models. I saw a clip of Fubuki recently and it seems she's had an update to her model since I stopped watching; I personally think the older, stiffer model was more cute - but again I say this as someone who doesn't watch Holo anymore so I understand that actual fans might be happy with it. What I'm trying to say is that I love the better modelling and rigging in the indie sphere, but I also love the slightly worse modelling and rigging in old Holo, I guess for sentimental reasons.

>>101730661
it is literally not and you should be checked in to the psych ward

>>101729886 (OP)
TRVTHNVKE

>>101730203
A couple of trout that live near a nuclear waste processing plant have been discovered and they have nipples. Maybe Saba lived near one of these?

>>101730688
Nostalgia and recognition play a huge factor in liking a vtuber, so it's not that uncommon that sentiment of yours.

>>101729886 (OP)
>rigging
sure
>designs
no

>>101730661
Nah it's reference from this character from G41 and she's 35 cm too >>101730092

>>101730054
this doesnt help your argument. left was made with the restrictions of 1985 hardware. the fact remains corpos would rather cut corners for cheaper easier-to-rig models

>>101730752
I mean sure the hair is very very similar but that's about it.

>>101729886 (OP)
God her old Gura model looks so dogshit lol
I only watch Twitch indies I didn't know it was THAT bad

>>101730094
Hololive definitely has some top-tier designs but their overly stiff rigging bogs it down (see Subaru)

>>101730661
She looks nothing like Gura, get your head checked (your eyes are seeing just fine, you are just too delusional to process what you're seeing)

>>101730661
you're the kind of person who thinks koreans and japanese look identical just because they have squinty eyes. saba is as generic as it can get from a v-twitcher

why do western indies always rig the eyes so they dilate like a crackhead every 5 seconds

>>101730921
westerners don't know the concept of "less is more".

Are ex-holos allowed to collab with holos? I can't wait for Saba and Mumei to collab!

>>101729886 (OP)
Too bad they dont produce streams

>>101730536


Why not a fat FOX tail then HUH? Those are popular! Or if you HAVE to leech off your past life and NEED to brand as a sea creature then keep the shark tail then give her fish/dragon ears instead! There is NO GOOD REASON for this HEINOUS and HEEDLESS ASSAULT on ALL SENSE with this CATEGORICAL MISHMASH.

>>101730993
>anti so lost he doesn't even know Mumei graduated months ago and has explicitly stated she will not be streaming

>>101730733
Aight I'm convinced.
>>101730921
Anon have you ever actually you know... talked to a human face to face?

>>101731040
catfish sex

>>101731079
>Anon have you ever actually you know... talked to a human face to face?
americans must be crackheads then, because regular people don't behave like looney tunes characters

>>101729886 (OP)
"western" indies
"better"
"japanese"
artist https://x.com/shouu_kyun
l2d https://x.com/cillia/media
huh really ?

>>101731121
Regular people don't have eyes half the size of their skulls either, anon. C'mon.

>>101731121
>americans must be crackheads then
bro hasn't heard of the fentanyl epidemic yet. there's literal zombies roaming the streets over here anon

>>101729908
>They only thing that I‘m going to produce is 10 children with saba
are you me?
no way YOU are going to breed with MY WIFE!!

>>101731117


The tail isn't even a catfish tail! The whiskers are missing! She can't even do the pun right! nONE OF THIS IS OKAY!

>>101731157
>m/cillia/media
cute

>>101731058
>Anti
Not everyone is your boogeyman, moron. Are chumcucks so mentally stunted that they can't detect sarcasm?

There are many Japanese vtubers with similar design to Saba.

>>101731194
she did do the pun right, shes not a catfish, she's a mackrel

>>101730092
Oh nyo~

>>101730132
scuffkino was myth's entire brand for the first 2 years
you wouldn't get it newfag

>>101729886 (OP)
Soulless anime_girl_kemonomimi.jpg vs a design that will be remembered forever, yeah sure

so she hated Fuwawa specifically because her design she commissioned looked similar?

>>101730173
Saba is 35cm thoughbeitever

>>101731271
>design that will be remembered forever
I don't want anybody to be remembered for having shitty design/rigging due to greedy controlfreak corpos lol

>>101731210
Anon discovers twintails for the first time in his life.

>>101731328
Nah, if someone with a shark design shows up, everyone's just gonna think of Gura. Nobody's gonna care how "shitty" the design was

>>101731427
this post feels like massive cope
if nobody cared about it then people wouldn't be mentioning it

>>101731457
3.5 people in this thread don't matter

>>101729886 (OP)
>>101730087
>>101730137
>>101730229
>>101730379
>>101731210
>>101731255
I wanna know what people outside the community think about us (rightfully) lusting for little girls.
I still don't know

saba = overdesigned, generic, lame, cringe, tryhard

>>101729886 (OP)
mid model, blonde hair is just isn't it

>>101731492
>3.5
More like 3.5 million when brownvtm and other indies and twitterfags talk about it all the time

>>101730328
True, I like my children 13-14 yo

>>101731514
I see whose opinion you listen to

>>101731496
They don't know or care and just see an innocent child avatar.

>>101730092
G41 still looks a lot nicer than Saba. Can we please cut the fuck down on cat Vtubers?

>>101731497
But enough about holo since 2024

>>101730092
This has more soul

>>101730775
Right could have easily been done on the original NES. They were just lazy.

>>101731860
In fairness, it's been like that since 2023 or whenever Irys v1 came out

>>101731835
>cut the fuck down on cat
No. Fuck you
I like my little furries

>>101731860
>whataboutism
lol

>>101731496
See >>101731806
Consider that in SEA and LatAm it's also more common to have children running around basically half naked or naked

>>101731835
I hate this mentality of cutting down on (X). why not just increase what you like instead of bothering other people

>>101731933
>why not just increase what you like instead of bothering other people

Because what he likes is lame and no one cares lol.

>>101731496
>rightfully
Shut the fuck up retard

>>101729908
I don't remember making this post.. must've been half asleep still.

>>101732042
nips too high

Saba's new model is definitely better, but IRyS 2.0 is still the sexiest model in my opinion

>>101731496
Well she made it outside the confinement into normie space, so you can just read it yourself:
https://old.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1ln0kq8/gawr_gura_redebuted_as_a_new_vtuber_sameko_saba/

Hint: thanks to the "Kani crew" we are back in the "all vtuber fans are pedos" arc.

>>101729886 (OP)
You mean that all Western indies produce the same model right? The same generic features, the same unnecessary details, the same blonde hair, boring

>>101732522
and no meaningful lore at all, bitch just
>fuck the lore, jump straight up to merch

>>101732282
You're retarded
That's unironically a running joke in the Forsen fanbase/Bajs

>>101729939
SPBP
Saba is the very definition of SOULLESS

>>101729886 (OP)
It all comes down to numbers.
Firstly, the number of people involved in a ligger rig is ~3, the chuuba, the artist and the rigger, for corpos there's layers of management involved as well so direct communication is impossible. Safe designs and "good enough" quality are top priority here and will always be mediocre compared to a good indie model.
Secondly, there are a vast amount of indies these days, greatly outnumbering corpos and the quality in their models is equally as vast. The worst corporate model is way better than the worst indie but the best corpo will always fall short to the best indie.

>>101729886 (OP)
bruh wtf is this... i was about to go and sub, opened the stream and there's this cursed model. fuck that, that's too much for me. couple of clips later you start to get recommended cocomelon, a few more and someone knocks on your door. that's disgusting

>>101730190
Bullshit that new color palette sucks. The blonde hair with blue streaks is atrocious. And slapping cat ears onto everything isn’t automatically an improvement. You wanna talk dated, she looks like fucking nojaloli

>>101732863
Omg, what will Saba do without Capipis in her fandom? Oh, the humanity!

>>101733003
oh nyoo you can't like multiple vtubers it seems!
kek fuck yourself pedo

>>101732863
kys nigger

>>101730677
to grift

>>101733042
I can, it's just that I hate you specifically. It's personal

>>101729886 (OP)
I don't care about the rigging, blonde clashes with blue and the cat ears are retarded on a fish, they were already retarded on gura but catsharks being a thing made it legit and it was just one of many outfits

>>101732936
What's fucked up is you know the only reason she did the blue streaks is so people think "Hey, remember Gura? Doesn't this remind you of Gura?"
The usual pitiful indie shit where they go indie for "freedom" but desperately do everything they can to remind you of their original model.

>>101732863
wait until she do an ahegao face

>>101729886 (OP)
It's always crazy to me how much cope there is about this topic.

>>101729886 (OP)
>Luigi's Mansion 3 vs. Luigi's Mansion

>>101729886 (OP)
No one has ever gotten popular off their model.
Gura is a literal example of this. Maybe instead of spinning rims, you liggers should network more.

>>101732548
There is more than 1 comment dude, 90% are calling us pedos.

>>101733217
>No one has ever gotten popular off their model
Where did you read that in the OP?

>>101733227
>on a sub filled with unironic Bajs
Yeah, you're tarded
They call even themselves pedos all the time

>>101733227
go watch a single forsen stream lol

people request loli clips all the time on his channel

they're like 4channers calling people peds when they jak off to probably far worse deep web stuff

bajs you can see on porn or hentai sites admit to actual cp

>>101730742
>posts a lineup padded with silhouettes, duplicates and actually good designs

>>101730879
>koreans and japanese look identical just because they have squinty eyes
They do. Anyone saying otherwise just fell for ww2 japanese exceptionalism memes.

>>101729886 (OP)
The rig is great, very lively, big step up from the previous but the character design itself is horribly boring. Once the new model smell comes off I doubt I could draw it from memory.
>Cat ears, pale hair with bi-color strands gremlin loli, that is covered in too many redundant thematical props and leans way too hard on her old skin.
Meta upon meta upon meta makes it extremely generic and
It's soulless factory manufactured by a board of people that only looked at the most popular vtubers. It's very very safe.

that looks terrible. Another loli tuber, disgusting, chumbuds should all die slowly.

>>101733699
How about YOU die instead stupid faggot
KYS

>>101731497
And very soon: lazy, alcoholic

>>101732543
>no meaningful lore
good

>>101729886 (OP)
Generic twitch vtuber model vs the most iconic design in vtubing.

>>101729977
>Cover is over
phase has the worst models full stop
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>101733699
Someone really needs to pop off the heads of every single gura anti. Y'all are just annoying as fuck.

>>101732543
the only lore ur bitch in the picture has is her chuuni intro line

>>101733726
>>101733950
lmao pedophiles seething !!!!!!

>>101734270
no need to talk about yourself

>>101733769
YUP

>>101733898
>>101731903

>>101734270
Amazing to see that you're not in Otsuka Ray threads or Holofag threads with known groomers who posted CP, and you're always at Gura threads

She must have rejected you so hard you shit yourself every time you see her

>>101733950
>Someone really needs to go back to pop off the heads of every single pedophiles.
>Y'all are just annoying as fuck.
FTFY

>>101730117
Better? You have a source for that?

>>101734571
starting with the ones who conflate lolis with IRL kids, whether they like it or not
kill every single one of them

keep lolis 2D only

>>101734402
The biggest schizos are always ex-fans.

>>101734604
>keep lolis 2D only
go back

>>101733699
>>101734270
>>101734875
>he lost his smug after someone said keep lolis 2D
KEK
it's literally your silver bullet
gura must've said something similar for you to seethe this hard and this long

>>101734402
>wahhhhhh you can't just dox the public figure!!!! don't post her real face that's against hololive rules wahhhhh
LOL

>>101734935
It's not Gura but Senzawa was the one who said it

Whenever I see him anti'ing Gura or her incarnations, I feel nothing but pity

>>101734935
I have no idea who you are talking about nor am I the anon that you we're replying to, anyways I think you are right on keeping lolis 2D

>>101734742
I still have seen 0 actual examples of this
Every vtuber anti I have ever seen has either been some fat edgy cynical fag who makes "the 4chan guy" his personality or a thirdie doxxtranny
No indication they have ever watched the vtubers they hate, considering they get very basic facts wrong all the time

kinda irrelevant when the person behind it is a talentless quack

>>101736568
Talentless hacks can still have soul.

>>101729886 (OP)
She could have had one but she didn't want to pay until she was forced to because her debut as an indie and I believe she got a big discount because she's a big fish.

>>101729943
Well for one thing her eyes aren't all fucked up anymore

The new model is good but looks generic as fuck. Nothing memorable about it

>>101731496
>I wanna know what people outside the community think about us
Just try to imagine yourself explaining to a coworker that you like to watch people hiding behind virtual anime avatars. Now try to imagine how they would react if you told them that the avatar is meant to look like a 10 year old girl.

>>101730087
that face belongs on a doujinshi cover

>>101730379
who tf is minki

>eyes aren't wide
it's over

>>101729886 (OP)
Saba looks soulless , also her design is just ugly.

>>101729886 (OP)
Shit design that would work better if it wasn't trying to call back to Gura
Like the blue streaks on blonde are just ugly

>>101729886 (OP)
Her design lacks memorabilia, that's true, but hearing people calling it outright bad is mad hyperbolic. A genuinely bad design is something like Sana's model.

I really like the way her room/background looks like.

>>101729939
spbp, unfortunately

>>101731926
I need to move

>>101737224
Same. Also the desaturated blue-white-red aesthetic is very pleasant to the eye, even if it's peak bathroom core.

>>101729886 (OP)
>Watch Saba VOD
>Finally get to see the model in movement as opposed to all the shitposting on /vt/
>Its just bog standard twitch vtuber movement and expressions a la Shylily
Western vtubing is a plague.

>>101736721
I thought it was only me. It really does look like a lot of other loli indie vtuber models. It would be very easy to mix them up.

>>101730292
This is the correct take.
Gura is pander to children.
Saba is pander to pedo.

>>101729886 (OP)
>The evidence
The evidence began in 2021. Anyone only discovering this in 2025 has exclusively watched corpos for 5 years now.

>>101729886 (OP)
Gura's rigging was known for being garbage even within hololive so it's not exactly hard to top
Saba's design on the other hand is just Gura but worse

>>101729886 (OP)
it has far better rigging but the western design is so sovless its crazy
the changes seem so minor but the design on the left would never have grabbed hold of the entire vtuber community by the throat the way the one of the left did
even though its a copy it just ends up looking generic

>>101741997
*the way the one on the right did
i'm extra ESL today i guess

Gura made who Gura was, not cover and their awful rigging

>>101736721
It doesn't need to be "memorable" or "unique", because it's Gura, and that makes anything she is or does memorable by definition.
What it needs to do is have everything her fans wanted in a model and more. This leads to even more fanart and an even greater presence in the medium, and thus more content for fans to enjoy - since, let's be real here, they won't be seeing her in motion all that much.

>>101730775
>overrigging is not a thing
cope bitch

>>101729886 (OP)
The model has a shitty allover the place design what are you smoking

>>101729886 (OP)
the rigging looks like shit, overly expressive

>>101729886 (OP)
palette swapped camila

I hate the whole cat fish thing and I've always hated it since she was gura. It just looks like she's a cat girl with a fish stuck up her ass.

>>101743239
uh does he know?

>>101743239
Yeah, mine

>>101729886 (OP)
Most people are art-blind and essentially hallucinate a corrupted image when they look at it. There are many who will unironically choose the right-hand image solely because it is more familiar to them or because of trivial properties like having white hair. They are unable to see it is objectively worse.

>>101730290
>Wealthier independent creators
I got a model for just over $1K (this was the price for design, model art AND rig from the same artist) and it has better rigging than Hololive. We are at the point where the bar really is that low.
It's not even about "pushing boundaries," people just want the biggest company in the industry to fucking look like it.

>Management often isn't willing to invest in hiring more skilled riggers and artists
But they DO hire skilled riggers and artists, and invariably every single work from them is of lower quality compared to their work outside of Hololive.
Just look at Vei's first L2D model rigged by keffiy back in 2021. It is to this day at least on-par with the best-rigged models in Hololive, and better than ALL of the work keffiy has done for them.

Then you've got Cecilia, who's an extremely skilled rigger, running a model that looks like shit compared to the things she could do by herself.

>>101743568
>art
>objective
lol
lmao
you arent as smart as you're trying to sound

>>101741526
>Cillia rig
>bog standard
Your complete lack of knowledge is showing

>>101743749
>there's no such thing as objectivity in art!
Yeah that must be why people go to school to learn how to make art
Fuck outta here, retard

>>101736721
lolis vtubers are generic by design, their whole game is being "cute" without much personality to catch you know who's stray viewers during the usual 3 month vacations

>>101743749
You sound like a nigger coping when we prove rap is the worst kind of "music"

>>101743239

>>101730092
>dolls frontline invented catgirls, blonde hair, and twintails
Impressive track record, no wonder they could afford to make DFL2

>>101730775
If we go with the speculated cost of Saba's model, of 20K $, then it would cost 1.380.000 $ to make models for every hololive member. Not to mention it takes a lot of time to make a model like that, there aren't enough modelers that talented to make 69 models in a reasonable time. The good ones are already busy as it is. They try to keep a somewhat base model, but I agree with you, some models are just awful.

>>101733263
>it's all just Bajs bro

>>101748234
>Implying ~1 million is a big deal for a company the size of Cover corp

>>101748434
It's not just about money, it's about people and time. And let's be honest, people will still watch them regardless, so there's no incentive to change.

>>101729886 (OP)
Legitimately and unironically why can't Cover Corp get good quality rigging for their models? Why are they perpetually stuck in 2020 with their rigging quality?

>>101748584
penny pinching so they can funnel maximum amounts of money into "palworld but there's blue triangles in the main menu"

>>101744019
>Yeah that must be why people go to school to learn how to make art
lol
lmao

>>101741526
YWNBJ

>>101729886 (OP)
Where are my fellow crabs?