>>101791314 (OP)
When they shut down. Too many people in the industry are made to believe they are the big shots and that's why they get the streamer awards.

>>101791314 (OP)
I think likely Matara walked out with the other two who disagreed about Matara getting fired for whatever Matara was trying to pull

They're not a corpo :)

>>101791561
Matara got pushed out because she didn't want VShojo to handle her merch and that's the only way they get a cut.

>>101791314 (OP)
I won't watch Phase Connect, stop making these threads

>>101792195
>can't deliver their merch properly, huge delays
>fine I'll do it myself
>nooooo, use your shitty in-house merch distribution
>nope
>gets fired
What did they mean by this?

>>101791314 (OP)
They barely do anything for them. There's very little power for them to abuse.

>>101791314 (OP)
When Brave buys them

>>101791314 (OP)
When are you gonna admit you’re brown and obese?

>>101795198
Rumao I'm sure half of their talents left for absolutely no reason right... right?

Retards will still argue they aren't a corpo

>>101796280
Don’t forget to bump your thread at page 10

They aren't a 'black company" because a couple of talents leave any more than Holo are, lol. If more comes out that makes the company look bad, then so be it - that hasn't happened yet.

And when they leave, they leave with everything they've built which is a key difference. Zen will still be Zen. Mata is still Mata. Can't say that for Nijisanji, where they all have to start over.

>>101792195
Geega flat out stated that merch had nothing to do with why Mata was let go, despite the rampant rrats that it must be why.

>>101796530
>Retards will still argue they aren't a corpo

I mean, they're obviously a corpo in the literal sense of the word. People usually mean it in the sense that they operate nothing like "corpos" in this space. They're more akin to a normie talent agency, which is still LITERALLY a corporation, but not a "corpo" in the colloquial sense. Ignoring that pretty obvious difference is just obtuse.

>>101791314 (OP)
>black corpo
>able to leave at any time, even if they gave you the model to begin with. Can even still collab with the corpo chuubas. Absolutely nothingn changes

>>101791314 (OP)
But are they though? Are they even a corpo?

>>101792426
I can't belive you're gonna make me defend vshitshow, but the only thing they get is merch cut, if you don't use their system, as shitty as it is, then there's no fucking point in having you in Vshojo.

>>101791314 (OP)
but Kson is there happy and free so clearly everything is fine

>>101791382
Even if Vshojo goes down it's not a black corpo. Just unable to make a profit because they're not taking as much from their vtubers as other corpos.

>>101791314 (OP)
They aren’t
They are just the first company when the bubble was being inflated, took a turnaround that benefited all other Vtubers in the long run, and they are suffering it from causing that.
Back when VShojo started they began by being separated from what the community was getting used to, the corpo mindset. While indies were booming, they didn’t had access to a lot. By bringing more attention to this “free” side of things, and popularizing it, more artists, riggers, modelers and agencies began taking heat. They were at some point a good difference for the medium regardless of what you might think of them.
But this outcome made them less and less appealing, and more challenging to work with them. So, a lot of indies, agencies and promotors (like GS) began to take a huge turn.
Since that, their model doesn’t work as well as it used to. Their staff aren’t that experience since it’s a young industry, and they still choose to pick only huge talent names with past branding, which would cause a massive problem due to the two factors I just mentioned

Or basically, VShojo became a thing of the past for the current landscape.

>>101791314 (OP)
Learn the difference between a black company and a shitty company.

>>101803783
Then why was Matara's tweet about her departure worded in a way as to imply she was fired?

>>101805264
Maybe she was? Getting fired doesn't make a company systematically abusive

>>101791314 (OP)
They actively run constant PR campaigns on here and other places as well as get other streamers to shill them like they're not creeps dude. The CEO is literally Gunrun.

>>101805563
That's exactly my point. The merch situation is a valid reason to fire her. But if she was fired for something else...

They're not black corpo, they're stupid corpo. Their talents can use them as a stepping stone without any penalties, build up an audience, leave and keep everything. They should start introducing contract breach penalties or something.

>>101805616
>They actively run constant PR campaigns on here and other places as well as get other streamers to shill them like they're not creeps dude
That's Phase Connect, not Vshojo.

>>101805890
It's both, you tard.

>>101800291
My point was that their merch distribution had problems. The only thing they can get a profit from, and they fucked it up.

>>101806336
Why on earth would Vshojo run anything /here/?

There's like 2-500 schizos here at best and not much else.

>>101806549
Newfag or disingenuous? There's some Vshojo related stuff that will get nuked INSTANTLY, and don't even pretend that you know nothing about it.

>>101806600
...The doxx shit that mouse posted to an audience of like 5 that people dig up in an attempt to shit on her?
Yeah, no shit.

>>101806669
>the doxx shit
Which get applied arbitrarily. Some doxx shit stays up for days. You either nuke ALL of it, related to ANY vtuber, or you don't touch it.

>>101791314 (OP)
But they only hire black people for security..

>>101806741
Anon it's direct information about her family
Go back to TVA or kiwi or wherever you retards came from.

>>101791314 (OP)
VShojo doesn't hold enough power to be a black company, as evidenced by a total of 7 talents having left the company without any negative consequences

>>101807116
Fucking shill. You don't even acknowledge the hypocrisy?

>>101791314 (OP)
Looks like a pink company to me

>>101807290
I don't care.
Leave family out of your tribal bullshittery.

>>101807116
Y'know it gets bad when you know a bit more and think about it.
>During her second subathon had an emotional breakdown when talking about the other streaming site she used to be on
>She had a fucking stalker and it got so bad that she ending up having to get law enforcement involved because she felt her life was in danger
>She had like less than 20 viewers back then
Gee I wonder what kind of dipshit would be sharing that info on sites like those when she had so few viewers and retards here are supporting them by sharing it.

>>101807497
Fucking hell. Nightmare scenario right there.

>>101791314 (OP)
Literally all VTuber Corporations are black corpos except Phase because Fishman had the 5000-IQ galaxybrain required to figure out your talents probably won't jump ship if you don't treat them like shit.

>>101807841
Anon if that had a shred of credibility it would've been posted months before. Zen's one of the founders. It's not like Mouse would've found out the day before.

>>101806669
>doxx
Words lost all meaning.

>>101791314 (OP)
Black? Debatable.
Incompetent? For sure.

>>101791314 (OP)
>talents probably leaving for bigger and better things
>it’s a black corpo
Would you work at the same job your entire life?

>>101808094
I would, if I enjoyed my time there.

>>101808114
I know you're being facetious but content creators are a different line of work. Even your holo/phase oshi will graduate some day. At least, in this instance, they're leaving with their IP and continue business as usual. You will understand that when you get older

>>101808581
I get why someone from a corpo like hololive would want to leave.
But VShojo was always seen as hands-off, basically indie. Why would you leave, unless you wanna quit altogether.

>>101808658
In this case it seems like they just dropped the ball too hard.
From what I've seen, it sounds more like vshojo isn't actually an employment company, but more somewhere that you hire to handle backend stuff.
Less "giving up half your paycheck" and more paying them to deliver a service.

>>101808760
From what Veibae is saying in that clip, clearly there was more than that, they were restricted in some way that made her quit. Maybe it was something minor that doesn't affect the content much, but that crossed the line for her. I remember her saying, before joining VShojo, that she won't ever join a vtuber corpo, she likes the freedom of an indie.
Now this is only Veibae's side, who knows what's the reason for the others to leave.

>>101791314 (OP)
I told you so when they forced Kson to delete her tweets condemning cheating but you didn't listen.

>>101810020
vshojofags only care about the brand, not the talents

>>101810046
How long until they themselves start calling Zentreya a troon/man because he left the company?

>>101808047
It's not debatable at all because all of their current problems are caused because they don't use enough black company tactics like holding the IP hostage or taking 50% on subs / donations etc to stay afloat like most other vtuber orgs.

>>101810089
a day or two

>>101810168
zentreya's google dockey isn't out yet so we don't know

>>101791314 (OP)
Black company does not mean "company you don't like", anon.
Vshojo does not own the IP of the characters, so everyone could just leave with their IP intact if the company tries to pull something bad.
Now I'm not saying that they're competent, they're just not malicious. They don't have the leverage over the talents that black companies need to blackmail the talents.

>>101810246
forcing kson to delete her posts was pretty black

>>101810168
The company owning the IPs or taking money from the girls aren't Black Company tactics. Do you want to try actually looking up what terms mean before you start throwing them around?

>>101808658
>But VShojo was always seen as hands-off, basically indie. Why would you leave, unless you wanna quit altogether.
VShojo makes most of their money from merch, but they've dropped the ball numerous times with regards to that, so why would you rely on them for that?
On the other side, why would they want to have a streamer under their org if they're not making money out of them? The girls have terms in their contract to be part of VShojo and I would be shocked if some parts of those terms weren't in relation to merch
There are other things too, like branding. For some Vtubers, it's going to be better to attach their brand to something other than VShojo.
Of course you'd have to also look into the reasons why the other girls left in the first place, I imagine they all have their own different reasons.

>>101791314 (OP)
Hololive is more of a black company than they are.

>>101810713
>people leaving because they're too successful
vs
people leaving because contractual obligations are not being delivered on

>>101810564
They absolutely are because it gives the company way more power over the talents.

>>101810564
A black company needs power over the talents to be a black company. Otherwise the talents can just walk away.

>>101811030
You don't understand what a Black Company is or you're viewing this through an overly Western lens.
Again, if you don't really understand the terms, don't throw them around, it's just poisons the discussion. A company having more influence over its own talents doesn't make it "black"

>ブラック企業
>読み方:ブラックきぎょう
>別名:ブラック会社

>一般的に、労働法の規定する範囲を逸脱したような劣悪な勤務環境や過酷な労働を強いる企業の総称。

>一般的には、「ブラック企業」について明確な定義があるわけではない。典型的なブラック企業の特徴に挙げられる要素として、サービス残業や休日を返上しての作業は当然という考え方、上意下達で朝令暮改の体制、パワハラ、従業員の心身の健康に対する配慮の低さ、などが挙げられることが多い。労働環境が劣悪であるため、短期間での離職率が高いなどの傾向もあるとされる。

There's a definition for you. Try using it instead of your own made up one

>>101811413
This is faulty logic, honestly embarrasing to read
Yes, a black company needs power over its talents. That doesn't mean that every company that has some amount of power over its talents is black. This is the "Affirming the Consequent" logical fallacy

>>101811475
>>101811533
Maybe you're misunderstanding me here or I didn't make it clear it enough, I don't think that all companies that own the IP of their talents for example are abusive but it certainly makes it easier and the more elements a company has that give the company an advantage over the talent the more likely it is you're looking at a black company.

>>101810756
Do Holodrones really?

>>101811852
>the more elements a company has that give the company an advantage over the talent the more likely it is you're looking at a black company.
No, I understand what you're saying. It's nonsense.
You don't actually understand what you're talking about and trying to ascribe a level of "blackness" to various actions in order to push through a narrow minded view of how companies operate
A company that owns a talents' IPs but treats them well is far less black than a company that would allow their talents far more freedom but resort to actual black practices
I'd recommend once again reading up on what black practices actually are before you start throwing around the term to push your own views of how a Vtuber company should operate, because you know far less than you think you do

>>101791314 (OP)
only japanese can be bad people

>>101811930
>A company that owns a talents' IPs but treats them well is far less black than a company that would allow their talents far more freedom but resort to actual black practices
If you think I disagree then no you did not understand what I'm saying.

>>101812118
I don't think you're intelligent enough to actually express your views concisely and would rather stay in the realm of ifs, coulds, potentials to, capability to, and ability to. It's nothing worth actually engaging in: all hypotheticals to justify using a term you don't actually understand. Besides, the original post
>>101810168
explicitly calls holding IPs """hostage""" a black company tactic, as well as taking money from subs and donations. So clearly you're not even being consistent to your own views considering the definition you've been attempting and failing to give for the last few posts.

>>101811533
>That doesn't mean that every company that has some amount of power over its talents is black
And I didn't claim that. All I'm saying is that Vshojo has very little power over their talents because they don't own the IP, thus it's very unlikely that there's anything "black" going on there because the talents could just walk away if the company starts to fuck them over.
I'm not saying "companies that own the IPs are black", that's crazy talk. I'm saying "it's hard to be a black company if you don't even own the IP, you have no power over the talents".

>>101812311
I think most people would understand my position and it's just a (you) problem because you're looking for a fight.

>>101810522
Kson saw the outrage and immediately jumped to make a statement without even fully understanding the situation. Not that that matters because everyone would frame it in the worst possible light anyway.

>>101812387
I think you overestimate the popularity of your own opinions
>I'm saying "it's hard to be a black company if you don't even own the IP, you have no power over the talents".
Then you should get better at phrasing your opinions to make this more clear as you have a terrible way of phrasing your thoughts succinctly. Either that or you decided to get involved right alongside someone else whose opinions were far dimmer

>>101812962
Seems like I was right.

>>101813019
Would you like to try to explain your opinion in a rather reasonable way and we can have a look at it?

>>101813033
It's pretty clear that you have no regard for any opinion but one that aligns perfectly with your own so I don't see why I would waste my time any further.

>>101813074
You seem rather confident in your opinion about me despite the fact that we are both anonymous and you haven't even said much of anything to me.
I'm asking you to state your opinion. You're avoiding it for some made up analysis of my personality and affecting a false moral highground. Now you can act like a normal human being and state your opinion or you can stop engaging, although I doubt that will result in you leaving this thread instead of attempting to take potshots at someone you don't know. Your time isn't evidently worth much considering your last few replies

>>101813223
How ironic.

>>101811929
tell me you don't understand the idol journey without telling me you don't understand the idol journey

>>101813249
Are you 5 years old?
You can try saying something of worth or just closing the thread

>>101813742
There's nothing of worth here if we're being honest for a second.

>>101791314 (OP)
Retard. If they were we would have known 2 years ago. Nobody would have renewed their contract and the leavers would have talked shit about them same as the ex-nijis do. Even Vei says positive things about them and if any vtuber hates being positive, it's Vei.

>>101813904
That's true but that anon throwing a sulking fit should at least try contributing to the thread if he's going to keep posting in it

>>101814058
What have you contributed to this thread if I may ask?

>>101813423
Incompetent management constantly stifling talents' creativity is part of the idol journey?

>>101814165
Express your opinion and I'll respond to it

>>101814296
You don't have to insult VShojo like that, anon...

>>101814861
lmaoooooooo

>>101814861
VShojo doesn't stifle its talents' creativity because they have none

>>101814861
KEK

>>101791314 (OP)
not even a corpo