Thread 102291235

Objectively these designs are all downgrades, but why is that? What was stopping them from getting actual professionals to make good designs? I doubt lack of funds was an issue.

>>102291235 (OP)
most boring hair colors I've ever seen

>>102291235 (OP)
Idk, I like Nimi's more, the nurse thematic is more kinky. Ame became a furry monkeyrrat, big ears, not my cup of tea but she looks like the Ame from fanarts. Saba is a better model, but the Roombus was iconic so it's a lose lose situation

>>102291459
Nimi is just a generic nurse with the tapir ears stapled on. Dooby's is probably the better of the three but it doesn't represent the animal it's trying to be all that well. Saba is just a generic pedo bait cat girl with a fish tail stapled on (because of course there had to be a fish tail.) None of these designs are particularly inspired or all that iconic, but unlike most indies I suspect they have the resources to hire far better artists/designers.

>>102291235 (OP)
That's simply what happens when the talents get "creative freedom" and much more input towards the design. They get something they like but it's not as good.
Fauna's tit window was great. Ame's og outfit was one of the best in all of hololive. Gura's I never loved but it was at least iconic.

>>102291459
How is Nimi kinky? She resembles like a real world orderly or psych ward nurse, and not the fetish anime one.

>>102291235 (OP)
>What was stopping them from getting actual professionals to make good designs?
????
Fauna went out of her way to get the exact same mama. If anything, it says something about their own personal tastes.

>>102291235 (OP)
Because they are grifters, anon.

They dont need a top tier model to cater to their loyal retards who will buy all their merch and watch them for 2 hours 3-4 times a month.

>>102291654
New Gura's rigging is amazing, but the style is kinda generic and reminds me of some small corpo gals. Small corpos designs can go so fucking good sometimes, but this isn't one of those.

>>102291668
>same mama
Then they phoned it in, because it's nowhere near as good as Fauna's design.

>>102291235 (OP)
Nimi's model is great although that big ass dress is subjectively worse than if it was a regular nurse uniform. Dooby's model is perfect and I love everything about it. I don't really get the purpose of Saba's long twintails, but everything else is fine. Comparing it to Hololive designs is idiotic

Really smooth holodrone. I could almost not hear Yagoo's dick in your mouth.

>>102291459
>Saba is a better model, but the Roombus was iconic so it's a lose lose situation
kek yeah. It kinda is like konosuba. Getting the studio deen animation just made it better

>>102291447
her face looks like a fucking fish, not an example of good design

THIS is the biggest downgrade. I still like her, but the fox to roach thing just didn't have any thematic consistency compared to the ex-holos. Even Mika kept the frankenstein thing.

>>102291703
I agree that the big-ass dress is "worse", but I think it's fits and makes her unique. If it was a more common nurse outfit she'd be very generic.

>>102291739
You know she became roach because she wanted to because she's a monsterfag, don't you?

The person is drawinged this designs is bad hololive drawings good

>>102291774
MY boner is more important than her boner.

>>102291235 (OP)
Sounds more like you only consumed Hololive through fanart instead of watching streams

>>102291235 (OP)
Nimi is an upgrade. Now I don't have to see her disgusting feet nor do I have to share Oshi with coomers.

>>102291235 (OP)
Hot take. I think an aged up mommy version of lemonleaf would have looked much better.

>>102291807
Anyone with eyes and common sense and look at the designs side by side and see the downgrade anon

>Nimi
Pure garbage, looks insanely generic both in art style and design
>Dooby
Honestly I quite like it and it's really unique at least. No sex appeal though so it's hard to compete with Ame's blonde tittymonster design
>Saba
Very over-the-top, it's like you asked chatGPT to create the most moeshit design possible, "and then we add cat ears, and then we add serafuku, and then we add twintails" etc.
It does the job obviously but it's certainly generic. I don't really like the eyes in terms of art style though.
Gura's model was very poor quality though so I can see people preferring Saba. But it did have more of a "girl next door" vibe which is often performs well despite nobody every specifically voicing demand for it. Ironically despite being a blatant holoclone "in spirit", it's the least like her holo model in practice.

Niji deflection thread

>>102291235 (OP)
Question is, they already had models why make new ones?

>>102291235 (OP)
Fauna sucked, Nimi is a huge upgrade. Mininimi was way better though.
Dooby is just Ame with a tail. Sidegrade.
Saba is an upgrade and would blow Gura outbof the water even harder if she dropped the stupid cat ears.

>>102291856
Gura gets elevated in unofficial fanworks. She should've gone with the JK design instead of a literal child. Saba just has too many textures and too little at the same time, and you're right, it's technically better than Gura, but still bad.

>>102291654
This. You can knock on the "corpos" anyway you like but at the end of the day their team is going to make a good looking design that can sell well on its own. Indies will always prefer designs that they personally like but they lack that professional and marketable design input.

I agree with Saba being a downgrade. Her facial expressions are now much better, but there's no denying that Gura was a homerun design while Saba is a bit too generic.
Dooby is a better design than Ame, and it's not even close. Ame had the most lackluster design in all of EN, at least Dooby has a partially interesting one.
Nimi could have been a better design than Fauna, but ultimately isn't. I actually really like her chibi model and had the full model bought closer semblance to it, that would have been so much better. But as it stands, it's still a good design and in fact the strongest of the three here. It just doesn't beat out the Fauna design, which is top tier.

>>102291879
Dooby didn't. For Nimi and Saba it was probably the matter of not getting back to their old images of LemonLeaf and Senzawa

>>102291879
Dooby and Saba's original indie designs were also pretty generic.

>>102291976
Fauna was unironically too green for me.

>>102291916
Gura's jacket alone blows Saba out of the water, who are you kidding anon

>>102291799
This is extremely important to understand if you're an entertainer.

>>102291738
Still a more interesting design then blonde indie tuber #91243463

>>102291654
Completely fucking delusional. Mumei literally looked like she was wearing a cardboard mask the entire time she was in Hololive. Corpos are insanely overrated when it comes to quality vtuber avatars.

>>102291997
>>102291982
I don't think the rest of Myth going to graduate any time soon, but if they do they won't be returning to their old designs probably. For example, I recall Mori not having the liberties for changing her color palette and she re-debuted she'd probably just be Red Mori.

You can't deny ex-holos do try to mirror their old selves one way or another but incorporate their pre-holo stuff, like Ame's use of green.

>>102291235 (OP)
Dooby is the only downgrade, you lying retard.

>>102291739
that was obviously intentional, i doubt such a disgustingly ugly design was only by accident
and of course cockroaches are supposed to be disgustingly ugly

>>102291235 (OP)
>objectively
Subjectively you mean.

>>102291690
>jiggles around like a blob
>good rigging

>>102291774
It's too bad the model artist and the rigger couldn't replicate the K_Cross concept art.

>>102291976
>Dooby is a better design than Ame
If Dooby's design was tightened up some more I would agree with this, Ame's design was clean af in its execution by comparison.

>>102292155
I mean, it's better than Gura's old rigging. That at least is objectively true.

Reminder that everyone /here/ hated Fauna's design when it first came out and now you only like it because:
1. She got popular
2. Old good, new bad

>>102292151
Still would. But my brain just can't logically connect how does a fox turn into a cockroach.
With Doki, I can see it, Dragon = Dinosaur = Bird.
With Mint, a Fairy is basically an elemental spirit, while a ghost is a spirit of the deceased. I can see it.

>>102292113
>Mumei literally looked like she was wearing a cardboard mask
That's a rigging issue, not a design issue.

>>102292247
I still don't like Fauna's design though. I got used to it, but I don't like it.

>>102291758
I thought the overall design of the chibi version is good, which is basically picrel
but she added frills to the dress and shorten it which muddied the nurse design with that of a maid

>>102292124
I mean it's natural that you want to accomodate the audience you gained at Hololive, or that Hololive itself changed you to the point you don't find your old design appealing. Ironically ex-nijis like Selen and Pomu returned to their old selves, but even Doki eventually had a redesign made by her Niji mama

>>102291235 (OP)
I like Dooby, I don't see the issue. She's basically Ame with a bit of Mumei hair and different clothes. When you compare her to Ame it basically comes down to whether you prefer a detective outfit over a conductor one or not.

Or, I guess, you might just dislike her disgustingly thick eyebrows.

>>102292192
It's *technically* better, but it doesn't make it actually better.

>>102291703
>>102291758
>>102292292
Chibi model is peak.
3D model seem to be based on the idea that being boing boing and legs is important to stage displays.

>>102292192
To be fair, even cheap indie rigs are better than Hololive ones. They're stuck in 2020, if not earlier, and value conformity over incremental improvement.

>>102291235 (OP)
Character design is hard. In a corpo setting it’s all about crafting something they think will appeal to a mass audience, but in an indie setting the talent can choose something that appeals to them.
That said, I actually don’t think these are that severe of downgrades. It’s possible you liked the theming of the original outfits more, but these new designs are competent at delivering on their new theme ideas.

>>102292247
>now you only like it
Not a matter of "like," it's a matter of "it got worse"

>>102292247
That's why I say comparing new designs to old Holo ones is stupid, because old designs grew on us after years of consuming streams, art, memes

>>102292339
Mostly agree except Saba. Cat + Fish =/= Catfish just clashes.

>>102292258
None of Nijis had any impact on their designs. Selen and Pomu just returned to their PLs, any connection exists only in your head

I think it's funny how Mint just went back to her old account, and got a redesign of her original model and it's one of the best looking ex-corpo designs out there. I think she wouldn't have looked as good if she tried to use a Pomu knock-off model instead.

>>102292305
Dooby's is the better of the three and it still has some flaws, namely the over designed potato thing strapped to her wrist and her ears. She's meant to be a jerboa but at a glance she looks more like a lemur or monkey of some kind.

>>102291739
I liked Nina but I would never watch her because of that boring ass hurr durr yet another animal eared girl design. Matara is fun to look at, has superior rigging, and just fits her voice better.

>>102292419
I mean, she had the luxury of a model with potential. You can's save these >>102291997 for example.

>>102292419
I like Mint's redesign but the knife ears still feel forced.

>>102291665
>psych ward nurse
Now imagine shes strapped you to the bed and is force feeding you your meds to keep you quiet and horny

>>102291819
The pink color theme is over done, nimi stands out more like this

>>102292423
>looks more like a lemur
This too, is rainforest.

>>102292493
I blame Orcazone, that bitch has been drawing Mint with knife ears ever since she redebuted

>>102291235 (OP)
Dooby's should be considered really lame but for some reason its kind of addictive. And Saba is an upgrade, what the hell are you on about? You'd rather receive head from Gura?

>>102292354
Old or not, those designs were still better at the start to what's being presented here now.

>>102291738
Vivitan a cute, you're a faggot

>>102291235 (OP)
Compared to their Holo models yeah they are boring but what I do appreciate is they didn't do the whole asymmetrical knee socks or legwear

>>102292561
No, Fauna design is overbloated and Gura design is barebones generic shark girl. Only Ame is good across all boards

>>102292573
>the whole asymmetrical knee socks or legwear
It looks like dooby and saba technically are doing that though. Example of what you meant?

>>102291739
Nina was such a primo fucking design. Even if you wanted to be a weird roach monster, Matara's hair just looks dumb as hell

>>102291654
>That's simply what happens when the talents get "creative freedom" and much more input towards the design. They get something they like but it's not as good.
Coomers will generally want sleazier designs that are more embarrassing for the vtuber to use but there are thousands of vtubers that have sexualized models that are testing the limits of the YouTube terms of service. Attempting to win the vtuber coombait tournament is difficult and usually a lose-lose situation. Saba is actually having trouble because of her open dress toggle and YouTube has already demonetized most of her videos.

>>102292607
>overbloated
I don't think you know what that term means anon. Her design was bold and extravagant but none of the elements clashed with each other.
>generic shark girl
The design worked because it was meant to be simple anon, that's why she was so iconic. Saba is just a mash of every actual generic trope you could throw at a "cute" character.

>>102292419
Well there are examples of ex corpos commissioning designs for their new indie life that are heavily inspired by it. Not talking Doki levels but Rushia levels.

>>102292681
roach monster with Nina's mama would've worked too desu. If she kept the hair style and the hat. I like Matara's eye tracking though, she makes silly faces with those.

I really like Saba's design. Nimi's chibi was her best as well.

>>102292736
i dont know who this is.

>>102292564
She looks retarded. Between her, Su and Riona idk what they were doing with this gen. Faces specifically.

>>102292573
Glad people are getting over the assymetry meme

>>102292726
>I don't think you know what that term means
It means what it means - too many distracting details for the sake of unnecessary complexity
>it was meant to be simple
Like I said, a generic shark girl

>Objectively
Monkeys discussing something completely subjective trying to impose their opinion as objective

>>102292829
>for the sake of unnecessary complexity
Her "many details" were meant to invoke a sense of extravagance, what you're talking about only applies of there are clashing design elements, which there weren't
>Like I said, a generic shark girl
Simple does not mean generic anon, please learn what the actual definitions are for the words you use

>>102291235 (OP)
They're all definitely worse, but that's not surprising. These were designed for(/by) the particular girls rather than for mass appeal.
In particular I really don't know what the hell Saba was thinking. Outside of the nautical theme I feel like I'm looking at a more age-bait'y Moetron.

>>102292703
>Saba is actually having trouble because of her open dress toggle
Saba loli fetish has only gotten worse of the years, it was bound to get her in trouble at some point.

>>102293019
Saba's*

>>102291654
>Fauna's tit window was great. Ame's og outfit was one of the best in all of hololive
Nothing but truth, miss fauna's tits to this day

>>102292339
competent yes, but nowhere near as iconic

>>102291235 (OP)
what's with white women all wanting to be blonde?

>>102293019
She can always stream of pomf

>>102292761
Riki Poppet, one of idols newest talents that is probably gonna get terminated soon.

>>102291235 (OP)
Dooby's is very unique and sovlfvl, cute yet still tasteful. Meanwhile Ame looked like some shit from an amusement park. It wasn't bad but it was very cheesy. Dooby is definitely one of the most patrician designs out there right now.

>>102291235 (OP)
only nimi is a downgrade the rest are good designs and have more love and detail put into them

>>102292339
These dipshits honestly act like a downgrade from 9/10 to 8/10 is unsubscribeworthy. It's basically the /vt/ equivalent of 2/10 would not bang.

>>102293416
>love
for grifting sure
>detail
more detail =/= better

>>102292736
The mask is so tacked on. Most interesting feature of the outfit is just an afterthought.

>>102292155
yes

>>102293481
No one said it was unsubscribeworthy anon, the point is that they should have had the resources and influence to get better talent to design their models, but they didn't.

>>102291235 (OP)
A reminder this is a ragebait thread made by a holofag

>>102291235 (OP)
Holobronies have no shame.

>>102294045
posting example of poor rigging has nothing to do with character design retard

>>102294122
sure bud

>>102292508
That's so hot

>>102291235 (OP)
Holodrone seethe thread lmao

>>102294349
That's an alt costume retard, and still better than most indies

>>102292155
>>102292318
>Corpocucks see actually good rigging for the first time

>>102294432
>retards still think better rigging means better character design

>>102294349
>The talent gets more personal creative decision on new outfit
>worse than prior/base outfit
I sense a pattern here...

>>102291235 (OP)
Did this shitty low effort bait thread really warrent 100+ replies to it? Are you people that starved for the avengers?

>>102291738
your face look like a piece of shit

>>102292959
/thread

>>102294757
Discussing facts does not make it a bait thread anon, learn to leave your feelings at the door.

>>102294816
seethe more

>>102291668
>>102291702
It's drawn by her old mama, but the design itself is not made by that artist.

>>102294942
which design, nimi or fauna?

>creatively bankrupt and lazy vtubers thinking up creatively bankrupt and lazy designs for themselves
I'm shocked, shocked I say!

>>102291447
>posts overdesigned garbage

>>102291235 (OP)
Saba's is amazing, tho i doubt shell ever take full advantage of it.

Dooby has the best design I've ever seen period.

>>102295559
you don't know what overdesigned means anon

>>102295785
amazingly lazy*

>>102294993
Nimi.

>>102294045
Tell me about Anya, why does she wear the mask?

>>102294816
Whatever blowglowtranny.

>>102294045
It's still good design with iffy implementation

>>102291235 (OP)
They are just fairly generic anime girls.
There's nothing noteworthy about them, they are high quality but they are forgettable.
It might sound counterintuitive but unironically them being lower quality would make them better.
A lot of the Holo models have very obvious flaws to them, it gives them character, it makes them stand out.

>>102291235 (OP)
Saba is definitely a huge downgrade.

went from one of the best designs to.....kill it with fire

>>102291738
You say that, but it's extremely memorable and recognizable.
Now look at Saba, and as well crafted as it is it really doesn't leave a lasting impact. It could be from any random mobage.

but I thought the hololive models were bad and behind current tech. shouldn't these indie models be far superior? what happened...

>>102296557
from a technical pov they are better
the problem is their designs are soulless

What was she thinking lol

>>102291235 (OP)
Not a fan of any of them but Sanas design is way better than Gura. Guras face looked retarded

>>102296662
Black company.

>>102296662
In a hypothetical universe where the left one was her holo model and the one on the right was the one she got as an indie faggots here would just say that she got an overdesigned whorish indie model instead of the modest and elegant one that the corpo provided her.

>>102291235 (OP)
Gura and Fauna both had very good designs, so it was unlikely either would have managed anything better. As fot Doob, I believe she's too much of a geeknerddork to have accepted a design that was too visually appealing.

>>102292419
One of the best features of Mint is her collection of ass freckles. Everyone loves little quirks like that. Also, it allow people to more intently focus on the ass of a vtuber who is into butt stuff.

>>102294045
Remember how long Kaela used to be?

>So we agree that their designs are mediocre at best

Yes, I unironically love my wife and daughter's (Amesame) old designs by a mile.

>So since they're indies now and is on par with their designs, will you watc-

Respectfully, No and never. I only care about old Hololive. I don't even watch the new star cum rags.

>>102296662
Its very obvious
She really wanted that puffy skirt.

>>102291235 (OP)
Nimi and Saba are upgrades though
Not a fan of Dooby's design but I wouldn't call it a downgrade either

The only reason you don't like them is because they're different (and not Hololive)

>>102291447
Ah yes, the extremely uncommon and unique vtuber color palette of pink and purple

>>102291235 (OP)
Now that I've adjusted, Nimi's is better.

Saba's is an upgrade in every way in terms of quality. Gura's quality was so absolute gutter trash dogshit that it took away massively from the simple effective shark girl design.

Dooby suits her more overall.

>>102296662
Nimi is a better design unironically
The silhouette is just as if not more easily recognizable, the outfit is simpler which artists appreciate, and the palette is pared down to more prominently feature her main colors.

It's funny 'cause if it were the other way around Holofags would be calling Fauna overdesigned

>>102291235 (OP)
Objectively I want to motorboat Nimi's huge titties, fuck the living shit out of her, and finally cum on her long, supermodel legs (stockings and heels stay on)

>>102298495
>nimi is the better design
generic twitch look, no cleavage, no bare feet
>if it were the other way around
repeating that over and over doesn't make it true.

>>102298023
>The only reason you don't like them is because they're different
Massive cope, they're generic anime trope archetypes with no iconic hook. Like others have said they're executed well rigging wise and design wise they leave no lasting impression.

>>102298191
More so than blonde

>>102298242
>Now that I've deluded myself*
ftfy

>>102298668
"Generic twitch look" would go full on massive cleavage and feet pandering, not the other way around. "Generic twitch look" has a million detail all over the model instead of trying to keep things as clean as possible.

>>102298242
>Saba's is an upgrade in every way in terms of quality. Gura's quality was so absolute gutter trash dogshit that it took away massively from the simple effective shark girl design.
Saba's rigging is better, but the design is uninspired.

>>102291235 (OP)
>Nimi
Decent but honestly doesn't stand out, pretty generic. Looks nice in 3d tho.
>Dooby
Honestly love it, nothing else to say.
>Saba
Downgrade from Gura but to be honest it would be VERY hard to even match how good of a design Gura was. With that being said the shark tail is just not good and honestly ruins the design whenever you have to see it. If she wanted to do the "catfish" thing so bad it would have been better off to just have a cat tail and make calling herself a catfish the joke.

>>102292419
We already know how she would look as a Pomu knock off. It's just as good as Minto desu.

>>102298805
>massive cleavage and feet pandering
Most vtubers have big tits, this is a pointless detail to fixate on as well to your opinion on feet. At least the feet thing made sense for a forest hippie character.
>a million details
More details =/= negative if it all works together
Simple =/= better if the design is fairly generic

Dooby is a massive upgrade. You guys are just corpo-brained

>>102298973
Spaghetti-chan... She stopped coming at midnight...

>>102299002
Dooby's is only a downgrade in the sense that it needs a few details tweaked to be the best it could be.

>>102291668
So thats why her model is the best of the three
Still, it doesnt change the fact that its an extremely generic design
Generic color scheme, generic concept (nurse), no strong/coherent lore to guide design decisions

>>102298980
Are you retarded? I just described generic twitch models you just talked about, so your opinions are irrelevant to that discussion.

>>102299169
I should have specified I was nta

>>102291235 (OP)
The difference between vtubers designing themselves and a professional designing a character

>>102294477
Who are you quoting?

>>102299235
>newfag doesn't understand how greentexts work

>>102291654
If there's actually any truth to that it must be something about ex-corpos specifically, because there are many indies including certain Holo PLs with amazing designs

>>102299117
>generic concept (nurse), no strong/coherent lore
So you are just gonna ignore the entire baku/tapir part of her character because? Or the fact she doesn't even have a license, so it's more like she is larping as a nurse to get access to patients with strong nightmares, and her place is basically a rundown psych ward. We are ignoring all that now?

>>102298668
>generic twitch look, no cleavage
Contradiction
Also Nimi doesn't stream on Twitch so this is just a weird take

>>102298715
>they're generic anime trope archetypes
What do you think Hololive designs are

>>102291941
>marketable design
An entertaining personality can make even the shittiest designs shine. Sounds like copium for that corpo girls are safe, boring, restricted and cringe
>>102292409
>connection only in your head
And you're bashing that fact why exactly? The logic tracks.

>>102299275
I ask again, who are you quoting? Nobody said that better rigging = better design. Only you did.

>>102299278
It's mostly the ones that make their new design a direct callback to their corpo character. Nimi, Mint and Doki 1.0 are perfectly good but Dooby and Saba made me instantly apathetic

>>102299275
>calling others newfags while being unfamiliar with "who are you quoting?"

>>102299363
>The logic tracks
You made that logic up. Doki and Mint existed before Selen and Pomu. Doki and Mint didn't choose to be Selen and Pomu. After Nijisanji Selen and Pomu simply returned to their PL personas. Nothing suggests they did it to follow some "logic" and not because it was simply more convenient than starting anew

>>102291235 (OP)
I wonder how much drama baiting pays.

>>102299451
The logic of lore continuity, you fucking idiot. The connections are there. You have autism and can only form literal connections.

>>102291235 (OP)
My real gripe is that their new designs don't do as good of a job of presenting their character identities. I mean by comparison:

Fauna - Nature chick, even if you don't know what a kirin is you get that idea just from the look alone.
Nimi - Based on a mythical tapir who eats nightmares. Not at all obvious from her design, you figure at a glace she's just a nurse with shrek ears.

Ame - Detective. Boom, obvious from one look at her.
Dooby - Train conducting Jerboa. Train conductor I can see but the Jerboa features could have been done better, could be confused for a monkey.

Gura - Shark Girl, plain and simple, every design element makes sense to get this idea across as well as the vibe of the character.
Saba - A cat girl with a fish tail and some sea themed apparel. Doesn't really present much of a core idea other than generic "cute" character that might like the ocean.

>>102291235 (OP)
They all fit their personalities and mannerisms.

>>102299386
>better rigging = better design
Yeah, that's exactly the notion I was addressing because it's the one held by several anons in this thread.

>>102299673
No it's not, what the fuck

>>102299521
Repeat after me
>Doki and Mint didn't choose to be Selen and Pomu

>>102291235 (OP)
they wanted them to vaguely look like holo designs, details don't matter when they already have their fanbase established would streaming with no model even affect them much?

>>102299617
I strongly disagree because conveying personality is more important than conveying backstory. You say boom, obvious like that's a good thing. But in reality the effect is that the design feels cheesy, like an amusement park or something.

>>102299363
>An entertaining personality can make even the shittiest designs shine
...Okay? That's not relevant to the point at all. There's no excuse for having the "shittiest designs" when you're an ex member of the biggest vtuber company with connections to professional talent in the industry.

>>102299783
>You say boom, obvious like that's a good thing
Yeah, because that is a good thing. A good character design can get the theme AND personality across in one glance, something these new designs do not do as well as the older ones did.

>>102299751
So fucking what?

>>102299835
Yea what you're saying makes sense in video game design or something like that sure. But here specifically? The theme doesn't really matter. Like Saba somehow being a fish is more of a joke than anything else, because obviously she's a human.

>>102299783
>conveying personality is more important than conveying backstory.
This is kind of a cope. Good character designs can convey personality sure but it should tell you what the character does and what their station in life is first and foremost. If I was new to tf2 I couldn't tell you exactly what the personalities the mercs had at just a glance but I could absolutely tell what they do and what their profession is.

>>102299788
>There's no excuse for having the "shittiest designs"
They don't need excuses for anything except potential yabs. Everything else is part of the product that SOMEONE out there WILL be interested in.

even if some of you are disappointed by their new designs, there's still a chance they could make alt outfits with that design that might fit your tastes better! i wouldnt lose all hope yet

>>102300008
>what you're saying makes sense in video game design
It makes sense with literally any character you design, even self inserts. If you can't convey to me the idea you want to get across with the character design you've given me, then what was the point of making the character? Just to give me something nice to look at? Because any indie can commission a "nice" looking character to put on screen, but it won't stand out from any of the others. People like drawing interesting characters, and interesting characters need a strong identity that's apparent at a glance.

>>102300012
Again, vtubers =/= video games. There are different priorities in different mediums. So this is kind of a non-argument. I would argue the professions are important in tf2 because it gives you insight into the character's function in the gameplay. The only function of a vtuber is to amuse you, so the "profession" or "fake species" or "monster type" falls to the bottom of the priority list and is only useful for inside jokes with fans.

>>102299353
>What do you think Hololive designs are
Far better and consistent executions of said generic anime tropes?

>>102300167
What even the fuck? None of this is in disagreement with my point. I'm just saying the "theme" is unimportant for vtubers specifically and is more likely to feel tacky if the design insists on it. Not the interestingness of the design in general.

>>102299521
>>102299117
>lore
Does anyone actually give a shit about vtuber lore beyond slight amusement the first time around?

>>102291235 (OP)
Ame < Dooby
Gura < Saba
Chibi Nimi > Fauna > Nimi
Any other opinion is either nostalgia or cope

>>102291739
>generic, overly jap-coded kemonomimi design
>unique roach girl mommy design
I don't say this enough because of how overused the term has become but holy fuck were you midwits filtered.

>>102300088
Please don't use an exclamation point when posting something optimistic. It makes you sound so reddit.

>>102300262
The theme is PART of the design and is just as important an element for designing a character. If you want to stand out in an over crowded market that is dependent on visual appeal then you can't just have a good looking model, you also need one that gets people attention with a solid and obvious theme to build on.

>>102300397
I never said i did. I just said that the logic tracks.

>>102299788
I guess this just begs the question: are you here for the personalities of the girls themselves, or to watch an aesthetically pleasing png of an anime girl bob around a fifth of the screen? Because honestly, if Gura came back with an extremely shitty booth model, I'd still watch her because its Gura.

>>102291739
Nina was a really good design and it's a shame it had to be abandoned, but Matara is pretty good and unique

>>102300397
I'd say it pays a pretty big part in the thousands of people spending hours making fanart, fanfics and fan videos based around their favorite vtuber's lore yeah

Dooby's design is the best. I fucking love this autistic marsupial. Palette is a lot more interesting than Ame's too.

>>102300515
Right but the theme is still present in Saba's and Dooby's. Like it's just not insisted on that Saba is a mackerel. At first glance she's just vaguely nautical, but clearly nautical. Because in actuality she's a human cosplaying a fish. Anymore emphasis on the fishiness would probably be too much, because it's an unimportant detail. I don't get how you don't understand this yet.

>>102300397
>>102300542 (me)
In fact, since Doki was mentioned before in this reply chain - I love her. I think she's one of the most entertaining vtubers i watched. I fucking DESPISE her tomato lore. It's retarded beyond belief. But i'm willing to overlook it because she's funny.

>>102300659
I think her tomato lore is pretty funny and leagues better than if she was some bog standard anime bird woman from another world or some shit. It excuses her having a new model every so often, and more importantly its unique enough to stand out among all the other animal girls and cute devils saturating the community.

>>102300714
>It excuses her having a new model every so often
Before the beach outfit came out she hasn't had a new outfit in a year, so that's definitely bullshit

>>102300552
>are you here for them or the art
Again, not relevant to the topic at hand. At the end of the day if this is their preferred profession you generally want to put your best foot forward. They had the resources to get better models, and they didn't use it.
>I'd still watch her because its Gura.
Sure, entertainment can work in both extremes, high effort or no effort, but mid effort appeals to no one.

>>102297798
Yes I'm familiar with Suzuhito Yasuda designs

>>102300745
>OG Doki
>Selen Doki (at least 3 variants)
>Crowki
>Tomato png
That's a fair selection. But the frequency isn't the point though. It's just a funny excuse she can turn to when questioned about how radically different her models are from each other. Most vtubers wouldn't give a shit and yeah it doesn't matter, but it is a fun little excuse.

>>102298878
>to be honest it would be VERY hard to even match how good of a design Gura was
Are you serious? It's not THAT great of a design. It's always been one of the most middle of the road designs in HoloEN.

>>102292419
why she got shit in her stockings tho

>>102300819
Crowki > Classic Doki >>> any flavor of Dokilen

>>102300241
So, literally
>it's OK when Hololive does it

>>102297446
>vtuber who is into butt stuff.
followed

>>102300861
I agree with this ranking, even though Dokilen did eventually grow on me.

>>102300241
That's massive cope

>>102300655
>the theme is still present in Saba's and Dooby's.
My point is the execution is done more poorly here than it was in their previous designs. The fact that you even felt the need to explain Saba's shtick to me just demonstrates how unapparent it is.

>>102292493
The only thing stopping it from being S tier

>>102300897
Yeah, it's not bad. I just would've preferred staying closer to the classic design. Or going full time Crowki, but I know that's not really possible because you need a cute girl face for profit reasons.

>>102298495
Personally, I think it took me seeing her model move around in 3D during her concert that finally got me to appreciate her design. I still think her chibi model is far superior to the big version, and I wish the big version copied the little one's color palette a bit more closely, but all things considered I have been thoroughly Nimipilled.

>>102300819
>OG Doki
It's like, what, 5 years old?
>Crowki and tomato
Stuff she almost never uses in streams. Off the top of my head, I recall only two streams where she used either - Just Crow Things and the sloppy sisters Fast Food Simulator collab.
Plus, she has iconic alternate outfits that she, as far as i know, has NEVER used - alt girl and cheongsam. And i don't expect her to ever actually use those as models.

>>102300973
No retard i explained it to specify what i meant by the word "theme" because it wasn't the best word choice. And its not executed poorly, you just have the attention span of a 3 year old.

>>102292305
>Or, I guess, you might just dislike her disgustingly thick eyebrows.
What kind of homosexual would feel such a way?

>>102300868
yes retard, it's okay when Hololive takes a trope and implements an interesting design around it

Nimi's design would be a lot better if she had a second color in her hair. Either underneath, some colored segments or a gradiant like Mint also have.

>>102291235 (OP)
might be me but I think the only objective upgrade here is Nimi. Dooby is the same while Saba is honestly a downgrade.

Then again, I like the Tapir and the nurse stuff is kinda underdone with vtubers.
>>102291668
they ALL got their former parents back. The real issue is how often everyone decides to just go for cat ears or the exact same design as their hololive self.

>>102291665
NTA but just from what Ive seen from fanart, the high waisted stiff skirted maids outfit just begs for upskirt shots, which is absolutely my jam.

>>102301065
>no its not
yes, it is.
It's a poor design that doesn't get the idea of the character across and attention span has nothing to do with it.

>>102300908
What, that Hololive makes consistently solid designs? That's just a fact.

>>102299314
She has tapir ears and a pipe you barely see, big whoop. The rest of the design is a generic girl you'd assemble for MMD out of a template.
So yes, you can, in fact, ignore that whole thing.
>>102292151
Roaches are actually fairly interesting bugs. Any insects primarily designed to live in groups are, really.
Flees and ticks are a whole different thing though.

>>102291235 (OP)
i like all three.
imagine a foursome with them.

>>102291235 (OP)
Dooby looks like an actual 12yo boy wtf
The rest is good or even better than Holo version

>>102292113
character design ≠ live2d rigging

but I can kinda get where you're coming from, since corpo rigs are often hit-or-miss

>gets a cat fish model
>instead of basing design on ANY of the catfish species, she just slaps cat ears and a fish tail on a generic loli
Saba had ONE job

>>102301670
would've required more thinking honestly, and a southwestern belle with a catfish motif would've unironically gone nicely.

>>102301670
Would also give us a better excuse to draw her with huge tits since catfish size varies greatly

>>102301160
You only think it's interesting because it's Hololive and you guzzle down whatever bullshit they feed you while calling it a masterpiece, no matter how mass-market bog-standard it actually is

>>102302079
I think it's interesting how completely devoid of an actual thought went into your fanfic. Whether you like it or not (and you don't have to like it) Hololive makes consistent solid character designs, which is simply an observable fact that has kept them at the top of the vtubing industry. Sorry if this is too much of big boy concept for you to understand so feel free to spam "le corpo shill" if it helps you cope.

>>102302463
>which is simply an observable fact that has kept them at the top of the vtubing industry
To be fair, what competition do they have?

>>102302510
niji, but only their jap branch.

>>102298668
>repeating that over and over doesn't make it true.
Council as a fucking whole, before everyone debuted, were called gacha tier designs you retarded newfag. People were calling them overdesigned, but then they actually debuted and it magically didn't matter anymore. So yes, he's right, you guys only don't give a shit because they're in Hololive. But if they weren't you would've definitely continue to harp on them being overdesigned.

>>102302463
I never said they weren't solid.
I said they're nothing special.
>an observable fact that has kept them at the top of the vtubing industry
No, their character designs have nothing to do with that.
What's keeping them at the top is getting in on the ground floor and cultivating an unthinkingly loyal, cult-like audience.

Same way Kpop might be massively popular, but that doesn't stop it from being watered-down, creatively bankrupt, factory-produced mass-market garbage.

As an artist who designs vtubers for people I can assure you that the more input a vtuber has on their own design the worse it will be unless the vtuber is an artist too. Respectfully, most vtubers do not know what makes a good design. I've had people come to me and ask for a cute pink catgirl (the most basic concept ever) and then proceed to pick the most basic design iteration out of every option I give them. It's soul crushing. Hololive and other corpos have really good designs because the artists are primarily in charge of the design, so it makes sense that indie reincarnations are usually a downgrade.

>>102302823
>People were calling them overdesigned
What?
Maybe Fauna, but the rest?

>>102300397
>to guide design decisions
Lrn2read

The lore itself doesnt matter but its necessary for a coherent design that makes sense on a subconscious level
Having a "universe" where every little detail of designs, outfits, logos, mascots work together is extremely important at a subconscious level to create immersion and support the kayfabe
Very few indies understand that and fall into the trap of thinking vtubing is just streaming as themselves but with an avatar

>>102302844
>popular thing is only liked by unthinking cult
Oh grow up, hating the popular thing doesn't make you special anon.

>>102296296
>memorable and recognizable
so is Jeff Bezos' wife

>>102302823
repeating your fanfic over and over still doesn't make it true anon

>>102303263
>only
I never said that.
There's no point in pretending that there isn't a significant contingent of Holofans that are adequately described as such.

>>102303200
They were the FATE generation after all: Mika Pikazo, pako and Wadarco

>>102303336
I can adequately describe you as a child if this is your actual line of argument, grow up.

>>102303474
>ad hom
Alright

>>102303552
>hypocrite
Okay

>>102291235 (OP)
Nimi and Dooby are like the end of DHMIS when the characters go low budget to escape Roy. If you ignore Dooby's tail.

Calling Saba a downgrade is misleading, she literally just became a different character. She went from the most recognizable vtuber to one of a million over-rigged cute blobs in the EN indie scene. I want to say, "At least she isn't a pink cat," but honestly...

>>102291235 (OP)
Big artists don't typically work with individuals, and when they do the things that the individuals come up with in their own head are usually not that good. Corporations come up with a basic theme for the vtuber and the talent works with the artist to make something based on that theme instead, and that basic theme is usually based on market research.

>>102303069
>It's soul crushing
My condolences, hope you're getting paid okay at least.

>>102303751
>She went from the most recognizable vtuber to one of a million over-rigged cute blobs in the EN indie scene
so in other words... it's a downgrade

>>102303804
Oh hey an actual answer

>>102303751
Nigga Nimi looks NOTHING like Fauna outside it being the same artist, she actually DID become a different character

Doob's design is great, very unique. Her smile is very warm too

>>102303971
who is nigga nimi

>>102303937
Oh uh shit I have to blend in. Everyone looks terrible in that outfit that they have that I don't like and if you disagree with me you are gargling someones balls. Whos balls? Don't ask stupid questions, clearly I'm talking about the bad design. Which one is that? Its that one.

I liked the Nimi design better then the Fauna one, I'm more for a more simple design at this point.

I do like the ame design over the dooby one, but the new look does fit her a bit more to me it seems. Love the little autistic rodent girl.

Saba's design was a huge uphill battle due to how iconic Gura is I don't know if anything could have topped it. It's like redesigning SpongeBob or something, I don't think anyone would like the changes.

I've seen the Nina Mata discussion a bit, part of it was she wanted to be more monster girl specifically to get away from old fans who only liked the model/company, so it sounds like the design was a success.

>>102300861
peak doki right here

>>102305569
This Doki is roughly 9001 times cuter than current Doki.

>>102291235 (OP)
Dooby's is far better than the generic blonde. What are you talking about?

>>102307260
you are friend

>>102291879
Wasn't senzawa's model just a recolor of something else?

>>102291976
Gonna be real I was pretty disappointed in the full model. It's not badly drawn or anything, but the lack of shading on the bangs and just the overall feel is nowhere near as pleasing on the eyes as the chibi's style.

>>102291235 (OP)
why is holocorpodrones like this

>>102307330
i think the issue most people have is that they previous model set a theme in their mind regarding the talent, so when a new model is used, it throws them off, since they still associate the talent with the old model.

gura with a sharp teeth shark
fauna with a horned tree spirit
dooby with an intellectual sherlock holmes figure

so a cutesy saba clashes with that sharp shark they have in their mind
a buxom nimi clashes with a faery fauna
and tomboyish tinkerer dooby with their intellectual feminine watson.

their mind is incapable of reconciling the change
they are the most basic of humans

>>102291235 (OP)
Why do ex-corpos all want to be blonde?

>>102307546
but at the same time

Nimi isnt too far off from Fauna, and Doob isnt too far off from Ame

Its Saba who's completely off

>>102297446
they're called moles and they are blemishes on otherwise perfect skin
moles are the dumbest shit to add to anything. titmole, assmole, thighmole, all trash.

>>102307546
This is a lame cope, fact is these designs are just uninspired or weaker compared to their last ones.

>>102307745
oof, someone was bullied hard in school for their moles

>>102307549
it's the "safest" option that non creatives turn to when they think they're being creative.

>>102291235 (OP)
>>102291654
Indies do a better job of live 2D but Companies are going to design something that fits the whole package which includes regular fanart or Official Art. Ame, Fauna and Gura’s model could look amazing in 2D fanart/promotions as well as sell due to either being cool chunni when needed or just a cute girl. In comparison their indie model’s while detailed just look “plain” in anything non stream related and only fit the cute girl image.

>>102307549
saba was white
fauna green
watson blonde
now they're blonde, blonde, blonde?
ask yourself, what race are they?
fauna/nimi said she had some bri'ish and almost all european DNA.
my bet is dooby and saba are also european, probably blonde.

so maybe they want to have a more accurate representation of who they are, even if the model is not accurate? maybe?

>>102307770
expectation vs theme.
would dooby fit in the same thematic background as sabas? or nimi's?
what of saba? does her model fit that environment better than in nimi's nightmare hospital, or doobys train car (or whatever that is)?

the design of the model fits the environment, just like an anime character design wouldn't fit in the simpsons or ben 10 or in the he man show.
hell, i'm pretty sure that goku wouldn't fit in an isekai anime or a shojou/highschool anime, like sailor moon or pokemon.

themes, anon, its about what fits where.

>>102307844
It's product designed for the masses versus someone's personal oc

>>102291235 (OP)
They were designed by women for themselves. Of course they're going to be goofy and subpar.
Women look best in clothing designed by men for men to appreciate.

>>102307936
A lot of hololive's characters were designed by women too retard. The problem is the talent got to design their own models when they're not artists at all.

>>102304855
The cheat code for Saba would have been her model she used in Ash Again.

>>102308024
>designed by women
For THEMSELVES, retard.
Designed by women for men to appreciate is something different entirely.
They picked shit designs because they don't know what men want. They just want what they want.

>>102308053
I'm talking about the hololive members currently IN hololive had their models designed by women FOR them you retard.

>>102307874
>so maybe they want to have a more accurate representation of who they are
Explain Doki then

>>102308140
>Explain Doki then
which doki?
chibi doki? doki bird?
doki doki literature club?
specifics anon, specifics

>>102307874
we're talking about their character designs being weaker than their last ones, not swapping environments or whatever dumb shit you're ranting about you dipshit

>>102291235 (OP)
on their own they're fine. but when put side by side you realize how similar they are. i guess that is one of the advantages of an agency. they can coordinate the designs so they are not too samey

>>102308140
If you're talking about being blonde, yellow is her favorite color because it was the color of her first dog, Sunny.

>>102308164
Follow the context-clues, anon. You're in a post chain about ex-corpos who are blond. Which doki does that describe? Hint: It's the cantonese one.

>>102291610
>>102291668
Idk why you keep calling them "generic"....these are the stalwarts of the industry. Of course they will be more generic. They are the pillars the industry rests on. If you want some finnicky weird design there's a million indies out there. If you want your stock favorites, that's what these ones are for. The simple fact the have mass appeal almost necessitates a more generic design. They are the base colors everyone else is coloring with.

>>102291235 (OP)
saba design is okay

>>102308570
Uh... no anon, the "stalwarts of industry" are not generic designs. You're confusing generic with familiar, as in familiar themes or tropes to build designs off of. Nimi could have had an interesting nurse design, but instead it's just a generic nurse design.

>>102308706
It's like you're expecting McDonalds or Subway to be serving some weird specialty offbrand that you find so delectable.
You can have that, but the majority will eat McDonalds and Subway.

>>102308500
is it possible that dokis real life person is blonde?

>>102308904
she is chinese

>>102308500
>>102308291

>>102308904
She's got dark hair normally, but has a problem where a lot of her hairs randomly turn white so she has to redye it regularly.
Again, it's blonde because her first dog was a golden retriever, which became her favorite color.

>>102308940
i'm pretty sure she's a hybrid with some european

>>102308500
>>102308291 (You)

>>102308904
She's got dark hair normally, but has a problem where a lot of her hairs randomly turn white so she has to redye it regularly. Something about "the body running out of ink" or something. Apparently she's had it since childhood.

Again though, Doki is blonde because her first dog was a golden retriever(yellow), which became her favorite color.

>>102308500
>>102308291

>>102308904
She's got dark hair normally, but has a problem where a lot of her hairs randomly turn white so she has to redye it regularly. Something about "the body running out of ink" or something. Apparently she's had it since childhood. She talked about it in depth last month or so.

Again though, Doki is blonde because her first dog was a golden retriever(yellow), which became her favorite color.

>>102308963
>>102308994
>>102308994
then she has a reason for having blonde hair.
it seems like the schizos on the other side just can't reconcile vtubers liking yellow/golden/blonde hair.

those schizos have something wrong with them, unlike our schizos, who have something different wrong with them

>>102309060
Don't call out my formatting mistakes like that please anon

>>102308778
Retarded comparison, I'm more expecting someone who worked at a high class restaurant to break off and start their own eatery only to find out they franchised a McDonalds.

>>102309019
>>102309091
>19
>91
anon, learn to embrace your mistakes, you are shaped by them, erasing them is folly and detrimental to your character development.
you are a bro, so i can't ignore mistakes, nor am i willing to let you be shamed by them.
become stronger than your mistakes, like i know you can

kill frogposters

>>102309144
I can't believe I'm getting inspired by a frogposter.
Thanks, anon.

>>102291665
Real world psych ward nurse's wear skirts that barely cover their pussy with thigh high stockings? I guess my trip to the looney bin was just shit luck then because they were all wearing scrubs.

>>102309269
i'm guessing they didn't milk you either?

>>102291235 (OP)
bump