You are aware she's not an indie, right?

I'd argue none of the ex-corpos are really "indie". But then again we need to clarify what we truly mean by "indie" in the first place.

>>102380266 (OP)
I'll bite. In what sense is she not an independent vtuber?

>>102380368
Having gained a strong fanbase out of nowhere since her announcement right after Gawr Gura's graudation, which was one of the biggest hololive vtubers out there wouldn't make sense for you?

>>102380368
in the same sense that an ex-prostitute is always a whore

>>102380266 (OP)
Yeah...she doesn't act like an indie at all

>>102380465
If a prostitute leaves a brothel and works alone as a street-walker then she is literally an independent prostitute.

>>102380266 (OP)
she came out of nowhere and is now pulling insane numbers must be botted if you ask me

>>102380266 (OP)
What vtuber corpo is she working with then

>>102380542
Those don't exist they just get corralled by pimps
Wait a second...

>>102380952
Oshispark comes up a lot with funding stuff for ex-holos

>>102380266 (OP)
All these ex-holos(even ex Nijis) are fake indies, also gamersupps and Mythic whores are not indie in any way, don't even mention VSJ.

>>102380266 (OP)
I've said it before and I'll say it again, ex-corpos should get called something else because it's not fair to bundle then with indies when they not only already had a big following and support for being from a corpo but also get huge boosts because of everything around their graduation and redebut

>>102380266 (OP)
she's mossad

>>102380460
So going corpo is like losing your virginity. Indie status can be lost, but never gained.
>>102380465
All women are whores so this analogy is meaningless.

She's an indie fishy.

>>102381182
>it's not fair to bundle then with indies
Not fair in what? Not fair to whom? Is there some competition happening? What's the prize? Who is being done wrong by the fact that ex-corpos are independent and in what way are they being done wrong?

>>102380266 (OP)
What corporation is she currently employed with? If your answer isn't none or the name of the corporation then you are a giant faggot and need to brush up on your english.

>>102380368
mythic announcement once nda is out, like kson did

>>102381505
>stop calling her a whore, she's not a prostitute anymore!

>>102380266 (OP)
Of course she is. If its one thing we know about her, she's an out going driven person willing to reach out to anyone in order to get what she needs. How else was she able to have that big omocat sponsorship ready to go as soon as she graduated. No way was there some kind of management behind the scenes setting all this up for her.

So by that logic, if a person that makes successful youtube videos starts streaming then it means they didn't actually earn that audience because they got it from their videos first? Is that what you're saying here? because she had an audience before joining hololive too which is why she got hired to begin with. Do you have down syndrome perhaps? are you brown on the skin?

>>102380266 (OP)
She's an ex-corpo indie. Which means she's got way better connections for merch and paid gaming streams than most other indies. It's why she and Nimi were already shilling merch day 1.

>>102381666
big difference between nimi's makeship plushie that all indies do and saba's omocat line. That's a major corporate deal that takes months and months to set up and approve.

>>102380460
Senzawa

>>102380506
this is a very good thing

>>102380368
Hopefully this analogy helps people understand the confusion.
Would you consider a 20 year old man who moved out of his parents house independent, or would you consider that his parents helped him get to where he is now?
Sure, he doesn't answer to his parents anymore, but he didn't buy his own groceries or pay rent growing up.

>>102380987
Dokibird is the ex-corpo pimp
her initiation ritual is extreme anal pegging with no lube

>>102380266 (OP)
>Most subscribed indie vtuber before joining Hololive.
>Leaves Corpo and is no longer required to do what they demand.
She's an indie.
The success has nothing to do with it.

>>102382685
Actually I can change words to mean whatever I want them to mean because I'm a knuckle dragging retard so you lose.

>>102380340
So clarify it

>>102380368
>>102380266 (OP)
she literally has a whole staff behind her, so no, shes not an indie

>>102386676
Anyone with a decent audience has multiple people working under them.
Artists, riggers, more artists, clippers, moderators, groomers, etc.
You'd have to be stupid to try and do everything yourself at that scale.

>>102382569
But he now currently buys his own groceries and pays his own rent thus is independent. this is a very retarded analogy and doesn't work at all in your favor.

>>102380266 (OP)
>is not part of a partnership with any brand, now forced to handle their own advertising, equipment, streams, and merch.
>anon says they're not indie because it hurts his feefees

>>102381595
What a weird analogy

>>102386676
Every large indie does.

>>102380266 (OP)
Retired corpos are indies, but I'd agree to classify them as something different from indies that built themselves up without having to amass an audience in a corporation first.

>>102382569
Everyone starts out as a baby sucking on a tit, so I'd consider him independent, yeah.

>>102386676
Yeah, she incorporated her own corpo to manage her brand, she must have at least a team of 4 contractors and a full time manager

>>102380266 (OP)
Retarded semantics argument. Call them whatever you want, they're not corpo anymore.

>>102380266 (OP)
Hope this is not some retarded
>She didn't have an audience before going corpo, so they made her who she is.
type logic, because she had two large channels before she ever join a corpo, one of them already a gold button and videos with tens of millions of views too.

this is nuts

Indie video games aren't made by a single person working out of a basement, it just means they're not working under a corporate publisher/developer. Same fucking thing for Indie vtubers. It doesn't matter if a vtuber has a producer or hell even a whole staff of people working for them, as long as they aren't working under a corporation they're still just on the high end of being Indie

>>102388089
You probably meant small corpo

this stream smells like ligger jealousy

>>102381800
Senzawa was a nobody. She had a tiny handful of moderately successful videos. People who cope about her golden playbutton are the same retards who bring up her streams, which nobody watched.

>>102382685
>Most subscribed indie vtuber before joining Hololive.
my penis

>>102380465
but enough about your mother, we were talking about saba.

>>102381262
i see you're also one of us, have a crown

I know /vt/ is ESL but you No True Scotsmen really ought to pick up a dictionary.

>>102386676
Has she gone into detail about that? Or is it just being assumed she has staff?

>>102380340
no, what OP meant that she has a shadow corpo behind her. the fact that she proceed to censor herself is a give away.

>>102388290>>102386676
neat, having people supporting you doesn't make you a "corpo", other wise everyone with 2 or more friends supporting them is a corpo by default.
unless she's fully incorporated, officially, answering to a corporation, on their time, then she's still an indie (i.e. independent), answering to no one.
could be she is answering to someone, but we still dont know, officially (we have schizo theories, hence the crown)

>>102388231
you do know saba had a large following before hololive, right?

>>102389043
Anon you might be retarded and/or underage.

>>102388231
Okay, that's fair. Let's also disqualify anyone who collabed with anyone else more popular then them as indie.

>>102382685
>>Most subscribed indie vtuber before joining Hololive.
Was she or was Shachi bigger? I honestly don't remember.
If you're just going at time of joining, though, Senzawa was like 770k and Shachi joined when she was above 900k.

If you wanna go even deeper though, IRyS' PL has a cover so fucking big that even Suisei's Bibbidiba gets completely eclipsed by it. I don't think any holo has a cover with nearly as many views as IRyS or ERB's biggest songs pre-holo

>>102386676
>she literally has a whole staff behind her
Yeah, mine.

>>102393617
>Senzawa was like 770
Senzawa was over a million before Gura debuted.

>>102393264
That shadow corpo? My dick

>>102380266 (OP)
So she's an outdie.

>>102393875
No she was not. C'mon, anon. Everyone knows she was at like 700-800k

>>102394626
On May 2020, 5 months before Gura joining Hololive:
Senzawa was 800k
Fubuki was 476k
Aqua was 397k

Senzawa was the 3rd most subscribed vtuber and rapidly rising, behind Kaguya Luna at 988,255. The next person to surpass her was a shork named Gawr Gura.

Zylphe said it best.
Corporate Vtubers are those above 10 k+ followers that accrue up from 250+ subs within a month, have a Clip Team (paid by corporate or die hard fans that do it for free out of pure tribalism.)

High Indie are Vtubers not backed by corporation but may or may not have support of a clip team that they may or may not pay for on their behalf to drive interest. They are above 2.5K followers and accrue above 100+ subs within a month.
Mid to Low Indie. The ones who are stuck in purgatory until they hit their (viral) event. Beneath 2.5 K followers and earn less than 100 subscribers (paid) a month and hardly have any backing or support throughout the month of streaming. If lucky, the Pillers of Vtubing will Virtue Signal to any of the mid to low indie affiliated in the Twitch Creator Club and will push analytics up for a time with their brand and community injection which further boosts their own brand because of the suggested Good Will they do. But it is a marketing plot.
If it's "Just Business" and it's not "Make Money Not Friends" type of thing. The streaming sphere really pushes the idealistic nature of putting up a front to an audience to attract with honey and not with vinegar.

>>102396590
>Corporate Vtubers are those above 10 k+ followers that accrue up from 250+ subs within a month, have a Clip Team (paid by corporate or die hard fans that do it for free out of pure tribalism.)
Corporate vtubers are vtubers who work on behalf of a corporation

>>102396664
Exactly

>>102381508
retarded /#/chimpoid

>>102382569
Bro the only people who think she's not indie are the freaks trying to create a tribalism division between the "ex-holos" and the other indies
There's no analogy that makes this retarded dumbfuck anti logic true

>>102382486
not really

>>102380460
Retard, she is indie as in she is no longer affiliated to or working under a corporate agency. She doesn't answer to a bunch of corporate bosses anymore who took a cut out of her earnings. And she gained the fanbase because she was already popular. It wasn't "out of nowhere".

>>102381438
>Not fair to whom?
To actual Indie VTubers who were never associated with any corporation, thereby never having that advantage and momentum after their redebut.
>Is there some competition happening?
They're in the VTuber industry, you fucking retard. A business. What do you think businesses are if not competition?
>What's the prize?
What's the prize for being a successful business/talent?

>>102380266 (OP)
she isn't but the biggest vtuber, CookieSwirlC, is.

>>102387229
How could you post something this fucking retarded? Artists and riggers are people you commission. Clippers start doing it by themselves and you might pay them a pittance later. Moderators and groomers aren't employees. If you have a literal management company, you are not an indie.

>>102380460
That's so fucking stupid anon lol

>>102380266 (OP)
Considering how she has a whole team behind her, duh.

She's an indie the same way a rich kid starting a real estate career with a 1 million dollar lease from his parents is doing that all by himself

>>102396590
Whoever this Zylphe person is they are objectively wrong and a retard. Why use many numberfag word when simple definition of actual word do gooder?

>>102393875
She did not. In fact she had slightly less than Mumei.

>>102396664
Wait what the fuck, I never made the connection. Is that why it's called "corpo"?

>>102393148
It came out when we learned she's got trademarks associated with this persona.

>>102400128
People still don't understand the difference between the types of Vtubers and is blurred over what is actually from the content creator themselves rather than that of a company paying for an identity to present forward for their branding.

>>102398111
The business argument is real fuckin weak. Rolling with this idea that it's an industry and indies are in competition with one another, in what way does labelling Saba as something other than an indie prevent her from competing with indies? If removing the "indie" label doesn't prevent her from competing against other indies then the whole thing is irrelevant to the conversation at hand.
The label of "indie" is not what puts her in competition with indies. The fact that she is an independent vtuber and they are also independent vtubers is what puts them in competition. You can call a grocery store an oil refinery, but if people go there to purchase groceries then it's still in competition with grocery stores.
>>102382569
This is hilarious fucktard mental gymnastics. It implies that there exists a point at which an otherwise independent vtuber loses their independent status as they have gained too much benefit from a corporate affiliation. So where is that line? If an indie collabs with someone in Hololive at what point have they benefited from the assistance of that corporation too much to still be considered an indie?

>>102400608
If an indie is boosted by someone within the corporate scene then they lose their independence of being an true "Indie". High Indies and Low corporate are close to similarities that they have benefits that most mis to low Indies do NOT have the luxury to have to benefit them and have a stable and financially set career.
Which nevertheless with how Corporates monetize their schemes it is quite toxic to the performer. Indies have more freedoms but lessor support.

>>102386676
Close. She actually has a whole staff in her behind

>>102399741
Teehee
Gawr "Small Loans" Gura

Whenever a holobrown sees his own shit-colored skin he makes another Saba seethe thread.
Sad…

metallica is an indie band btw

>>102382569
This analogy sucks, by your definition nobody is independent unless you were a child laborer

>>102400671
I think the "high indie" "low indie" "low corpo" "true indie" bullshit is nonsensical and a waste of time so I will cut to the chase and ask you the same question as the other guy.
Suppose that we all agree with this line of reasoning and Saba is kicked out of the indie chuuba Garden of Eden. What actually changes as a result of this? What does calling her something other than an indie accomplish or change? I suspect the answer is "nothing," but I'm willing to entertain arguments to the contrary.

>>102401019
SEAniggers need to work fresh out of the womb and resent anybody who doesn’t
Let them cooe

I do think we need a term for vtubers like Saba and Doki who have nobody above them telling them what to do, but are employing a big enough team that they are basically the head of a corporation themselves.

>>102380266 (OP)
I swear you guys don't understand the basic definition of words

>>102393264

>>102401066
You think they would want LESS child sexualization?

>>102401111
They want all the children to themselves and not shared with peasants like us.

>>102401040
We have one
Indie

Christ you niggers are retarded.

>>102395827
she was barely a Vtuber at the time and didn't grow through her vtuber activities

>>102401066
What's wrong rabbi

>>102401066
>implying anti-semitism is a real thing

>>102401030
It depends on the integrity of how one presents themselves and how they as a brand truly struggle or benefit.

It's disadvantagest for a already renown streamer to pull their massive Fanbase onto an new identity that they present and it's a precedent that little to no work means that major money can be dropped on the lap by mere affiliation to big movers and shakers within the industry. Even if the indie/corporate is a total dumb idiot with no personality outside of sexbait.

>>102401784
lol

>>102386676
All big name indies do. its why small indies want to partner with corpos, because they can handle the nitty grity side of the business. Once your big enough, you don't need the help of corpos anymore. but they're still indies because they're not bound by corporate dictates

>>102380368
Any vtuber who has a manager isn't independent.
They have their manager do all the work

>>102401397
Will /jp/ ever stop coping?

>>102402296
I think anyone who has a family or friends isn't really indie as they have someone who could potentially support them.

>>102402359
Anyone who has received a single superchat isn't indie since they received support from another human.

>>102397991
yes it is

>>102403213
Why are westernized asian women like this?

>>102400608
The blurriness of a spectrum does not cancel the existence of said spectrum.

>>102403213
White bros…

>>102403505
Foreigners who move to western countries get negrified. It's just part and parcel of living in a western country.

If Saba is not an indie vtuber, then she must be an agency vtuber.
So tell me, which vtuber agency is Saba currently a part of? Which company, which owns two or more vtuber IPs, owns the IP rights to the Sameko Saba name and likeness?

>>102401397
That's what made her special. Attracting fans outside of the vtuber niche.
Responsible for 4 million falling down the rabbit hole.

>>102380266 (OP)
>>hurrrr she was from a corpo before so she's not indie durrrrr
So Delulu Deliria and Sayu Synchronisity aren't indie, got it

>>102405002
If there really is some shadow agency involved, like the conspiracy theorists believe, then it's probably Night Media. Or something like that.

>consultancy workers means you are no longer an indie
lmao
Are you people 14? Fuck outta here.

snippable tail

Sorry, she is the Arin Hanson of Vtubing.

>>102405601
>anon thinks all subs are real

Guys I finally figured it out!
What sub means I mean!
Y'see it's when someone presses that button- money is taken out of them like a financially dominated submissive! Isn't that neat!?! Now I can control their financials just by mere existence and tell them to give me more at any waking moment and time!

>>102409213
Unlike Salome, Gura never needed to bot her subs.

Saba is already at 1.29 million subs and rising.
Still can't use the dead sub excuse.

>>102382569
Everyone started as a baby, not not every child was a nepo trustfund baby.
If mom and dad bankrolled them into their current financial situation, then they're luckier than the vast majority of people.

>>102380460
retard, that's not what indie means.

>zero mentions of doob itt

You retards really don't know what's going on at all, huh?

>>102413544
Is... Doob the corporation?

>>102380266 (OP)
Bro I don't even watch her. I just look at the porn.

>>102380266 (OP)
indie end, it doesn't even matter

>>102393264
I thought she censored herself because of child "fans"(AKA trannies forcing their nieces to watch vtubers)

>>102415023
My niece watches CookieSwirlC who was a vtuber I never heard of but has like 20 million subscribers because she pander exclusively to toddlers. Saba is an idiot if she's trying to be safe or pander to kids at all. They don't watch that kind of streamer content. They just want toy unboxings and brainrot.

>>102380266 (OP)
Not going to say too much, but she never left Hololive. Same as Fauna and Amelia.

>>102415244
Banks crack down hard on this stuff and they have AI to help them now.

>>102401040
This. It's like calling those Youtuber personalities "indie" when they have a whole team of people working for them.

>>102380266 (OP)
SAMEKO SABA YOU'RE A FRAUD

>>102380266 (OP)
saba gains a huge portion of her audience from her time in holo, and when she leaves she's considered indepedent, not corpo, because even though she's mostly known for her corpo persona, she is currently independent

therefore, even though cookie gained a huge portion of her audience from her time fleshtubing, she starts vtubing and therefore must be considered a vtuber, which cements her as the most subscribed vtuber

>>102412244
>Gura never needed to bot her subs
Duh, her fans do the botting for her

>>102393977
small shadow

>>102405601
>That's what made her special. Attracting fans outside of the vtuber niche.
>"What made her special was that she wasn't actually a vtuber at the time and the vast majority of her subs weren't subbing for vtuber content"
???

Employing managers and staff to serve your interests means you're not indie?

That's retarded.

If there isn't someone else signing their paychecks and giving orders about what they can do then they're independent.

Indie literally just means independent, i.e not corporate. You can argue some made up semantics until you're red in the face, but that doesn't change the fact that she is literally BY DEFINITION an independent vtuber.

>>102381182
So keep calling them ex-corpos, since they were molded by the time they spent in corpos.

>>102393264
How did she censor herself?

>>102393264
Yeah if I were a highly popular millionaire entertainer in an industry where I can put my work directly in front of fans' eyes and receive payment from them, what I would do is shackle myself to an extra middleman for no reason. For sure.

>>102380460
>one of the biggest hololive vtubers
Reminder she was continually mogged by the JP holos. Barely reaching half the CCV of Aqua's graduation and indie return.

>>102381438
"fair" as in "internally consistent" or "rhetorically correct", retard.

>>102425556
Turns out only 2views are truly indie. To be an indie is to be a failure.

>>102380266 (OP)
>>102380460
>>102386676
indie means independent in the legal sense of not being an employee or contractor for an company, it doesn't mean 'working completely on your own with no help from anyone' otherwise why are indie rock bands called indie you absolute utter fucking retard
>>102393264
this angle is never gonna catch on or stick schizochama, try again

>>102401066
you know too much

>>102381330
>So going corpo is like losing your virginity.
kek

>>102380266 (OP)
What company is financially backing her in exchange for a share of her takings?

That's what indie means.
fucking /v/ tier retards who dont know what indie means

>25% of the model is owned by her merch company
>indie
kekafuckingroo HAHAHAHAHA

>>102436385
>25% of the model is owned by her merch company
what the fuck are you even talking about you jibbering retard? And respond like a normal person instead of responding with your made-up baby-ish words next time too, drooling invalid

>>102436385
what do we call this mental illness

>>102380460
I'm guessing you're ESL and not aware the "indie" is short for independent.
It's not it's own word created for performers.

>>102436890
>>102436916
Lmao trolled kekarooo!

>>102425517
.ie HoloEN expansion to the West has failed. Gura was the gateway for normies. Who is taking her place? Mori? Kiara? Bibou?
Now they are just cringe to normies.

>>102437004
BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED BASED I KNEEEEEEEL BAYYYYZED etc

>>102436890
It doesn't mean a whole lot unless you say what exactly they own