Thread 102634194

>we operate on trust, no need to put it on paper
holy shit lmao Vshojo contracts are a joke

>>102634194 (OP)
How do you have an experience like this and not only not speak up about it, but let others fall for it too while doing absolutely nothing

>Clause where they cant take down her tweet
Well we know how that goes thanks to Kson
TALENT FREEDOM!

>>102634282
Truth of the matter it probably is industry standard, and making a fuss or being the first whistleblower destroys your life ans gets you blacklisted for “causing problems” whether they genuinely exist or not.

>>102634194 (OP)
how did they get anyone? did they figure they were only working with retards?

>>102634282
they might have some gay retard nondisclosure nondisparagement agreement before negotiations
>those don't hold up
sure, but odds are she didn't want to deal with the litigiation
>why now
dude just ran off with a ton of money, he's not going to sue to enforce an NDA right now

>>102634432
To be fair, most vtubers are retards.

What I don't get is how if Vshojo was so shit, why did all its talents praise it so much?
>hurr NDA
Yeah, sure, non-disclosure agreement. Not "disclose-the-opposite-of-reality agreement".

>>102634432
"Talent freedom" was a huge addiction. Reminder that indies put VShojo on pedestal because of that motto and they genuinely believed they will replace Holo and Niji

>>102634282
>"Why isn't she handling this in private?????"
It's not her job to expose frauds, retard-kun.

The trust does not come before the contract is signed.
The contract comes before the trust.

>>102634535
Anon are you new here? Surely you've heard the term 'cope' before, and have some grasp of what it means.

>>102634282
> stick your neck out against everyone's darling vtuber agency that no one has ever publicly complained about for no benefit to yourself
yeah really good idea dumbass

>>102634587
I mean, was coping really part of the contract? I can't see any other option.

>>102634194 (OP)
>>we operate on trust, no need to put it on paper
Sign me the fuck up YABBA DABBA DOO

Nimicuck deflection.

>>102634432
Most vtubers have never had a job in their lives before

>>102634627
They convince themselves it's a good contract because they were told it's a good contract, this in turn makes them think Vshojo is a good company. When cracks start to form they still think Vshojo is a good company and it's just some mistakes that will get fixed down the line. Point being; they believed it was good, so it being shit was surely due to misunderstandings, otherwise known as "cope".

Idiots all of them.

>>102634194 (OP)
>we operate on trust, just put it to 5% now and we'll change it to 0% later trust

>>102634535
it's nondisclosure non disparagement. idk why the girls would be such gay retards unless they were worried about getting doxed

>>102634644
That is how they operated, yeah. Since most of their recruitment was actually done not through auditions but through their talents recruiting their friends.
>Talent A thinks Vshojo is a good company
>Starts to convince talent B
>Talent B trusts talent A
>Through that, Talent B believes Vshojo is a good company
>While operating on trust seems like a red flag, talent B trusts talent A so it can't be that bad...
And you have to understand most vtuber corpos are complete shit so the promise of a corpo not being garbage is very tempting.

>>102634282
Selfishness

>>102634194 (OP)
vshojo members are unbelievably retarded especially those recent one. this whore has more brains than the rest of them combined

>>102634739
Nooo that's bullying put it back!

>>102634194 (OP)
do they also sign NDAs based on trust?

>>102634535
because the other corpa contracts are even worse, at least on paper

joining a corpa makes zero monetary sense for an established indie who knows how to monetize on their own. it only makes sense if you need their push to grow, you suck at monetization (getting sponsorships etc) or you have a specific non-monetary dream (like big group concerts) because all the corpa overhead will always take a big cut from you

>>102634194 (OP)
I want to hear Vshojo's side first.

>>102635238
well you're not gonna hear it because gunrun is halfway to Tahiti right now

wait what the fuck you can just lie to people and they will join your corpo?

>>102635238
They just need to collect some ingredients

>>102634282
because creator side of vtubing is heavily female dominated. you do not step outside of the pecking order.
which is why it took ironmouse literally the biggest vtuber to say something so these women started talking.
it's a strict hierarchy worse than criminal gangs

>>102634194 (OP)
this is a pretty average vtuber contract why is shylilly acting like shes getting robbed, hololive contracts are worse than this

>>102634194 (OP)
>VShojo wanted all her money to go to their bank account
just merch sales btw. hahaha holy shit
literally every single dollar they made was taken by vshojo

>>102635461
>all authority, no responsiblity
hololive is responsible for their talents, vshojo isn't

>>102635461
>pretty average vtuber contract
>We own everything you ever make forever even when you leave the company
Even the shittiest companies I've ever worked with only do this while you're in the company, doing it in perpetuity for eternity is a batshit insane thing I've never seen in anything but actual human trafficking level "modeling" contracts

>>102635475
Because they were trying to fake their revenue for investors. If shylily made $1 million dollars, it was actually Vshojo who made it which would look good on them even if they later gave her the money. Of course you’re taking a massive risk if the company decides to fuck you over like they ended up doing.

when the girls did get paid they got paid 6 figure amounts, thats why they tolerated all the delays. because they're all rich and can wait,

>>102635647
given that the post is clearly written by ai I think that part is not correct. other than that its better than holoniji contracts lol

>>102634372
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
It's a bit similar to showbiz. Troublemakers might get blacklisted.

>>102634194 (OP)
actually the most respectable thing about vshojo contracts are jewish

the average indie wants 100% of their revenue and want the corpo they're joining to do everything for them, its complete fantasy land, its why corpo vtubing is dying in the west, a JP vtuber wouldn't even flinch from this contract because for a lot of JP vtubers its not about the money

>>102635719
I mean surely vtuber fans remember what happened with Twisty.

>>102634372
Is industry standard to get 5% from any deal you make with 3rd parties?

>>102634739
That ant was killed by the tribe shortly after

>>102634670
>Nimicuck deflection.
Nah. Nimi announced her marriage to deflect from the VShojo shit.
And VShojo scamming their talents is just deflection from the fact that Pekora bought a fucking monkey.

>>102635950
the standard is you're exclusive with them and can't even make deals with third parties

>>102635708
No. It really isn't. Especially because they weren't paying people properly. It could be the best contract ever but if what it says isn't being followed by the company then it's trash and a lie. Not to mention there were members saying they weren't being properly paid as far back as 2021. Kuro and I believe Michi weren't being paid their merch profits at all for the entirety of their time at vshojo. Kuro knew but somehow Michi didn't even know she was missing money for a long time.

>>102634337
I remember when VShojofags told us that management asked kson very nicely to take the tweet down and that she wasn't forced.

>>102635990
Now that I think about it, do they even let them have a personal account and make content there, like some hololive members do?

>>102635994
it really is better than holo niji contracts and you are a coping retard if you say otherwise. and no im no it saying its good. the others are just so much worse.

>>102636050
None of them do or ever have so it's doubtful. They probably do have an exclusivity clause in their contracts.

>>102635708
Lmfao no. Holo-Niji treated the talents as actual employees so they must be responsible for their well-being. VShojo treated them as "independent contractors" so whatever the talents do is none of their concern. That's where the "talent freedom" came to play. They don't have control over talents, and so there is no feeling of responsibility to take care of them. Freedom of management basically, and unfortunately that translated to freedom of getting paid lol

>>102636186
>the contract was bad because the other party broke the contract illegally
thats not really how it works. the same can happen to you with holo and niji.

>>102636183
On paper it's good but it's all bullshit so sure it sounds good but reality proves it never worked. Like I said it could be the best sounding contract ever but if the company can not follow up with it then it's trash and a lie and therefore worthless. Why would anyone want a worthless lie of a contract that promised them more than they could have hoped only to de deceived?

>>102635650
isn't faking revenue illegal? if i invested the 10M in vshojo, i would be mad

>>102636273
my nigga the contract is bad. its not good. what the fuck are you talking about

>>102636309
They did a whole bunch of illegal things. I don't think they cared. They thought they could get away with it and they did for a long time.

>>102636186
>Niji treats their talents as employees
Lol. Lmao.

>>102636354
has anyone heard from gunrun? is he on the run or what?

>>102636186
members who came from niji literally glazed vshojo for actually appearing to care about their well-being, paying for healthcare etc

now in the end that clearly didn't work out but "holo-niji cares about their well-being" is also complete BS

>>102634432
>>102634531
>>102634687
most vtubers are women

>>102636387
gunran, bro. probably packed his bags the minute that mousey sent an inquiry intending to get her money out.

>>102636394
>appearing to care
kuro said they were actually great for the first year. then after that they apparently ran out of money.

>>102636479
darn, why'd they do that?

>>102636340
The other anon says it's good. To them it's the best thing ever and I'm debating with them. It obviously isn't. Shylilys was terrible but apparently other vshojo contracts said different things. Some members said their contracts sounded really good when they signed. So some could have actually had "good" contracts but it never really mattered in the end since it was all a lie. I'm just trying to prove that just because something may sound good that doesn't mean it actually is.

>>102634372
It absolutely is not industry standard to have references to clauses that do not exist, ownership of everything you do even after you finish your contract, no termination clause or to go “sign we’ll edit it later”. I’m not even sure some of the stuff she says is legal

>>102634194 (OP)
these people are so fucking stupid and i can't believe mint fell for this shit
fucking veibae sussed out this bullshit contract and called a lawyer IMAGINE BEING DUMBER THAN VEIBAE

>>102636479
He also said they didn't pay him any profits, from merch, the entire time he was in vshojo until just recently. He also only recently got paid because he got his manager to harass them with proof and spreadsheets and he was set to leave vshoujo. He also has a bunch of unfulfilled merch orders that never got sorted out. His first year was not all that great.

>review contract with American company
>it's a slave contract
Honestly, not surprising.

>>102636588
I remember back when she first left her talking about her bf Sodapoppin looking at the contract and going what the fuck is this garbage

>>102636229
>the same can happen
>even if the possibility is very low there is still a possibility it's a scam so it's the same
That's not how it works, if you see an iphone priced only 1 dollar on Temu it's technically a "better" deal but it's an obvious scam unless you're that retarded, just like a contract based on "we operate on trust"

>>102636526
nobody said it was good. they said hololove and nijis were worse.

>>102636821
hololive doesn't run on trust and they still tried to steal from some artists.

>>102636821
Anon just see how many retards use grey market resellers for games on steam. People are fucking retarded and don't understand basic shit like that most of the time.

how much of this is real and how much of it is chatgpt hallucinations?

>>102634803
>>102634644
KEK AND SHE GOT SWINDLED

>>102636665
what's funny is that everyone said she was quitting because of soda and mythic (same with the rest of the trio)
and now that they revealed they left because of psychotic contracts and not being paid, the vshojo dicksuckers are like REEE WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY ANYTHING (but our wholesime chungus mouse was completely ignorant, we swear)

I really hope we get some success stories from talent owned orgs just so the holokeks are slightly less smug

>>102636950
based on liveposting I saw it's about half real at least

>>102635985
Faking monki!

>>102636930
People would rather believe a lie that makes them feel good than face the bleak reality.

>>102634194 (OP)
Why would anyone agree to such garbage conditions?

>>102637351
nobody did. everyone vshojo pushed a schizo contract on rejected it.

>>102634432
Most vtubers are girls in her first half of their 20s, maybe a few hags on their 30s, that probably have never had a job beyond a 9 to 5, so they no idea about contract terms and fall into the usual "could you please sign it? we have another meeting soon and we need this to get you in as soon as possible" trick.
The only ones it would be ok to point and laugh are the exholos (Kson and Nazuna) and Exnijis (Kuro, Michi, Mata), they had to deal with a huge ass contract on their corpos and STILL signed that thing despite being full of red flags.

>>102634282
she's only at the negotiation step, you know who's actually more culpable? the likes of kson and others already scouted who glazed vshoujo to high heavens and kept quiet despite all the bullshit happening to her and in public

>>102637351
It's still a good deal. Would you rather have 10 viewers and no contract or 10000 viewers with a bad contract?

>>102637507
Oh hi Justin

>>102637470
Theres a chance the high profile people got good contracts (or didn't read them carefully enough) just so they'd gas the company up to potential new recruits

>>102637507
if you were singing with hololive that would be true - but vshojo only took in bit talents that are way beyond thousands of fans

>>102634282
Behind the cheap tit jiggles and womp womps, Shilily is probably one of the most business-smart and silver-tongued female vtuber, so she knows better than anyone than messing with another company's contract is a one-way ticket into a behind-the-curtains corpo war. She knows it's fine to say it now since there's way too much on gunrun's plate to care about this.
On a business perspective, she knows when to and how to say something. Or do you really believe that long ass rant reply for Sinder on her dockey post was just a random ragepost?

Anyone sitting in a negotiation like this and still signing is retarded, vtubers really are children.

>>102637573
yeah these early poached ex corpos are for that reason, top of the pyramid scam.

>>102637507
but vshojo only hired creators at the top of their careers. it wasn't random 2views.
so you are losing a huge chunk of your income for what exactly?

>>102637507
>outrageously hyperbolic comparisons
This is not a good deal by any stretch. And joining Vshojo didn't amplify your audience outreach much if at all since they weren't hiring low views to begin with.

>>102634282
she was too busy bouncing on dan clancy's cock
Verification noŧ required.

>>102637679
>Behind the cheap tit jiggles and womp womps, Shilily is probably one of the most business-smart and silver-tongued female vtuber
Could've said that she is german.

>>102634432
women

>>102638294
Basically, yes.

>>102634194 (OP)
This sounds insultingly bad, if it's true. Why would anyone sign a contract like this? I cannot imagine how would they have gotten people to sign this shit.

>>102637679
She actually has an actual business degree (and I think that she focused on growing small businesses)

>>102635047
funny if when vshojo ask them to sign nda, they would say i operate base on trust, no need to sign it

>>102634194 (OP)
*sigh*

oops, I meant TRUST!

>>102635708
>holoniji
Niji ok, but did I miss something, and a Holo contract got leaked?

>>102637679
That's why I can't help but love this evil woman even as she's bounced on Dan Clancy's limp cock.

>>102638459
I can see a naive kid falling for this, but didn't vshojo go for established people?

>>102637145
yes do it pls, i begging you, do it and it will became one more proof of why hololive way is the right way

>we operate on trust, no need to put it on paper
Is this an American tactic? Even dumb arse dole bludgers here wouldn't fall for that.

>>102634194 (OP)
https://youtu.be/7USTEGgl-Qg
Here is the clip

>>102638893
Established solo people yeah

>>102638459
Vtubers are retarded https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0qyyh-xu-I

>>102637507
Are you retarded? They didn't pick up unknown names, they only picked already popular talents.

>>102634194 (OP)
Pomu's idol dream? No need to put it on paper, she operates on trust.

>>102639453
The point is still the same. All the talents multiplied their viewer counts and profits. Ironmouse is streaming right now with 20k ccv despite having a male on the stream. Before vshojo, no one had even heard of her. And she got another 5x ccv boost by destroying vshojo. Almost makes you think she or connor had something to do with the fraud...

>>102634432
>leaving your corpo job that can buy you a house and pay of student debts to maybe not even get a contract with the pyramid scheme you are hyping up
Yep
Imagine falling for this shit. Vtubers are so fucking retarded.

>>102636408
So they're all retarded.

>>102634372
Sounds like industry standards are a cancer that need to be cut out then retard.

>>102634282
You're not a cowboy either. You would do the same in her position. Why would you bother saying anything?

>>102635461
It's the contrast between the promises of the 2 hour power point presentation about how awesome vpoacho is only to then not put any of it into the contract.

>>102637145
Doki should fund an org!
That is a sure way to work and nothing will go wrong!

oh so like a MSM contract with Seth Weinstein?

>>102640357
Geega touts how savy and sharp she is yet signed both these contracts. Never believe someone is smart when all they do is try to convince you they are smart.

>>102634194 (OP)
Not to defend Vshitshow, but this doesn't even sound consistent with what others have been complaining about. Feels like every indie talking about their attempted recruitment has a different characterization for the company.

>>102639349
women are the same as children mentally

only women could allow a situation like this to happen and not walk away

>>102640443
>Feels like every indie talking about their attempted recruitment has a different characterization for the company
I think that depending on the timeframe of the recruiting and possibly the person involved they might have offered different things, which seems to correspond to what some members have said in the past about personalized contracts, IIRC

>>102634282
>How do you have an experience like this and not only not speak up about it
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret anon:
There is constantly a ton of highly questionable things going on in the vtubing world and more people are privy to the information than you think. The only reason why this shit often times goes without notice by the general community is because vtubers know to stay silent for their own good. Considering this happened in 2023 if Shylily would have talked about all of this... let's say last year it would have been a disaster for her. Ironmouse obviously would have been against her and so would other big players out of obligation to Ironmouse and VShojo in general. It would have done nothing but make Shylily look bad and ostracize her for breaking one of the internal vtuber taboos. We've seen this sort of thing happen on numerous occasions and nearly every single time the whistleblower gets ignored or dogpiled and nothing ever happens until the drama pot boils over.

>>102635012
>>102635968
They don't think
Some of them randomly "scout" the area around their nest, which allows them to cover the entire area. Once someone finds food, he eats it and takes what he can with him. On the way back, he leaves a continuous trail of a substance that attracts other ants. Others just follow it mindlessly. They don't even have brains. Like, literally. Come on
And yes, I hate ants. You would too if they infested your home. Fuck these retarded fuckers. I'm glad their antics can also kill the whole nest if you give them poisoned food. One ant will bring it into the nest, and the others will follow until the whole nest is filled with poison that they mistake for food. Then they all eat it and die. Bam! The whole nest is dead. Newborn ants eat it too and die on the spot
>baww, you're cruel to cute little ants
They'll manage. Just don't come to my house, okay?

>>102640521
Are you forgetting all the old youtuber corpos that screwed over practically every single popular youtuber back in the day with similarly retarded contracts?

>>102641208
>their antics
Heh.

>>102639031
Of course dole bludgers wouldn't fall for that. It's why they're on the dole.

>>102641342
You know there's a good chance anons here genuinely do not remember that. I really hope it's because they didn't pay attention to YouTube at time or else that just means we're fucking old.

>>102634194 (OP)
Holy shit this is lowkey criminal behavior

>>102634282
In case you missed it VShojo was pretty close with twitch, it could have gotten her banned and excommunicated and slandered by the the entire twitch chuuba community, that place is a giant crab bucket

>>102635461
Hololive contracts exist in the realm of reality. VShojo's didn't.

>>102634194 (OP)
Jezas, and ironmouse and her crew supported this bullshit until she stopped getting paid

>>102642363
The word you're looking for is "tolerated", not "supported".

>>102642422
>keeps pouching more people in
>keeps promoting the shit brand
>keeps pretending nothing is wrong to fool more people
nah, supported is the right word

>>102634194 (OP)
You can trust Kson, Vshojo is good.

>>102635461
No, Hololive demands more but also offers far more. A dorito contract is a full service agreement. Vshojo only demands a lot but offers very little for it. You still gotta do almost everything yourself while they leech you dry.

>>102634194 (OP)
>They thought the orca was stupid
>Lawyer high as fuck

>>102642926
They weren't wrong about that, they just forgot about the german compulsion for accurate paperwork.

>>102634194 (OP)
>Trust me bro contract
>She accuses the lawyer to be high as fuck
>This is industry standard bro
Yep. 100% true, industry standard from black corpos.

>whore wants money and fame
>signs a contract which she knows is fucking her in the ass but anything for the fame
>goes huuurh duuurh I didn’t know corrupt scum!

Nimi fucked up my views on Vtuber whores and it’s their own fault for biting the apple. They wanted it. They got it and now they cry snake tears. I’m sure when they go independent they’ll fuck o bet you get newer vtubers with their own scummy company

>>102642809
What the dorito actually offers like 3D concerts is almost certainly not in the contract.

>>102643142
>Nimi
hey cuck, go cry somewhere else

>>102635289
This is standard practice in Showbiz. You make verbal promises you have no intention of keeping and omit them from the contract. Talent falls hook, line and sinker and gets entrapped inna contract that entitles you to steal from them for x years and hold their career hostage.

>>102634194 (OP)
this bitch is so full of shit

>>102636649
You gotta remember they hooked him up with an accountant and proper management so he could pay off his massive tax debts in that time. Of course he's gonna look back on it with rose-tinted glasses even if in truth he was getting fucked over from day one, just like seemingly literally everyone else.

>>102638134
>cucks out here simping for this bitch claiming she's a highly smart autistic business woman
>mispells a three-letter word
It's like a parody.

>>102634432
It works on clout sharks like Geega and Matara who will sign anything to make herself bigger

>>102643345
Sober up and pay debts, vshojo.

Vtubing is just a new form of showbiz and it’s build on selling the dream to gullible kids. It’s all to lure you in with glamour and the illusion of success but behind the curtain it’s all a bunch of flukes trying to be your best friend and taking you out to the club, having sex, taking drugs and making you sign ridiculous contracts while you are high on your own farts.

Its an industry that need to be exposed for what it is and vtubers need to teach kids that want to go that way to stay away from the fishing lure and just go independent but that means work so~ it won’t change shit, it’ll honestly just get worse.

>>102639349
It's quite strange we've got first-hand accounts that Vshojo required the talents to get a lawyer to go over the contract before signing anything, while simultaneously Nyanners and others have mentioned they specifically tried discouraging that. And this would be in a similar timeframe too, in early 2023.
Was it a part of their division tactics? Treat high-profile talents like Henya with silk gloves all professional-like, while trying to fuck over others they thought might fall for it? Michi was told to get a lawyer first too, which makes me also consider if they changed tactics to avoid getting called out on pressuring people into contracts.

>>102643488
Geega talked about her contract and she lawyered them into a totally different contract by the time negotiations were done.

>>102637507
>10000 viewers
blame the vshojo sheep for that one who wouldn't watch people until they had the V on their profile

>>102643776
That just means vshojo should've been offering even worse contracts since the brand name was so valuable

>>102643594
They probably had decent contracts starting out but Vshojo wanted more control and money from the talents because they were spending so much money so when it was time to renew they offered up a worse contract than before. After that failed and 3 talents decided to not renew they had to sweeten the deal again, which Kson actually talked about.

You have to wonder how shitty Cover's contracts are considering how many vtubers have left Hololive due to disagreements with management.

>>102640521
As long as you ignore the male VShojo and the other males that only didn’t end up in it because VShojo decided not to hire them like Quinn

>>102646269
male vtubers are mostly twinks so their thought patterns and mentalities are nearly identical to women and children

>>102646320
Nigga Kuro is not a twink he’s a fat flip.

Why is shylily so fucking greedy? Early life check?

>>102646395
German

>>102634432
girls want to be apart of Ironmouses clique

>>102634194 (OP)
No cons btw

Gunrun better Run

>>102647348
He should room with Hiro over in France. They're both scammers, they'll get along great.

>>102637507
Only a fucking retard would look at any of that and think "it's still a good deal". The fucking 'we get the rights to anything you create while in VShojo AND after you leave in perpetuity ' is the most massive red flag I've ever seen and should send any sane creator running for the hills.

>>102634194 (OP)
Vshojo talking about how they're great at D&D is hilarious because that's something the girls organized entirely on their own, months before Vshojo even started. As far as anyone has said, even behind the scenes, Vshojo had jack-all to do with it!

>>102648456
And didn’t their DM end up being a sex pest?

>>102648703
To be fair, none of them knew that at the time. But yes, Arcanum is a sex pest, never let him live it down.

>>102634432
The initial members were still, mostly, there. I think the ones that remained and chose to do nothing and say nothing should really have a moment of introspection because a lot of the reason people trusted Vshojo is because they trusted the streamers due to parasocialism and so because they seemed happy with it, "all was well" and you're a schizo for nooticing red flags.

>>102634282
Fools deserve to be scammed.
Survival of the fittest.

>>102639031
sounds like yuro retard shit