Thread 102995443

>Our conclusions were that most of the top 500 streams were viewbotting with 30-40% of viewers as blatant bots and another 5-15% as embeds.

>Viewbots are not only set up by streamers themselves, but also agencies and managers. This is to fool sponsors (like me) into paying $20,000+ (about $1-3 per ccv) for viewers that are not there. In 2025, most major brands have already run campaigns with horrible results, and so they and their agencies simply don't advertise on Twitch anymore. The untold story is millions gone from creators and the livestreaming platforms themselves because of this.

>Only 3 views are legit.

>>102995443 (OP)
>Vshojo was botted
Wow, would have guessed it?

>>102995443 (OP)
Phase Connect wins again, how do they keep getting away with it?

>>102995443 (OP)
>>102995472
Pretends_to_be_shocked.gif

>>102995534
You already this one before. One girl being botted once isn't the same as the top thousand streamers being botted all the time

>>102995472
Zen has a solid 5k watching tho?

>>102995443 (OP)
I am shocked. Absolutely SHOCKED at this news

>>102995443 (OP)
As an example I can give you Lirik here who gets 20k-30k viewers on sub sundays but struggled to get over 1k votes for said sub sunday throughout the week.

>>102995497
0.6% pretending clio high CCV legit

>>102995443 (OP)
I believe it, but the way he collected the data is retarded and makes me not trust him.

>>102995615
nobody ever votes on twitch.

>>102995443 (OP)
This is why most sponsors with brains care about CTR instead of the more manipulatable CCV or views. Big subs, views or CCV can attract sponsors but if you have piss poor CTR, GL retaining them

>>102995597
5,000 bots made out of solid steel

>>102995651
But the numbermonkeys love ccv??

>>102995443 (OP)
>Most popular streamers are viewbotted
people know this since 2015

Biboo...

>>102995534
Yet no sponsor has publicly complained about possible botting issue on YT yet, I wonder why

>>102995651
you can bot ctr though

>>102995732
yeah, because it's the only number they can get.

SCs used to be a nice way to track how "successful" your oshi is, but these days revenue streams have diversified into things you cannot track easily (merch, subscriptions/membership, events, sponsorships).

Truth to be told /#/ is obsolete.

>>102995534
I wonder what this feels like as the streamer. Obviously if you're making the poll you're not in on it

>Devin Nash
It's always funny when Numberfags discover fags like this, jumping again into the same bullshit they have spouted for years.

>>102995443 (OP)
Jezas

>>102995879
probably like shit because people in the past have been viewbotted by antis in an attempt to get their channels banned and there's no way to stop it

>>102995651
unfortunately there are a lot of lazy and retarded marketing shitheads that still measure and pay for ccv

>>102995651
>This is why most sponsors with brains care about CTR instead
CTR can be botted and he even complains that he paid $20,00 for viewers that didn't exist

>>102995443 (OP)
This is how he "came to that conclusion" btw

>>102995651
>This is why most sponsors with brains care about CTR
Hell yeah they do

>>102995760
Because people watch YT Vods, twitch fags don’t.
>>102996099
>it’s not true!!!!
The numberfags here have literally pointed out multiple things on there that are confirmed true. Also Asmon and Moist already said everyone is botted on Twitch too. Trying to act like Sponsors aren’t getting fucked by bots after twitch is bleeding them is fucking retarded.

>>102996099
>Twitch says there's been a big botting problem
>Sponsors says there's been a big botting problem
>"There is no botting problem in Twitch"

>>102995651
good sponsors will set up and pay for direct transactions using the sponsored code, links, etc

>>102995732
And those numbermonkeys keep graphs showing how twitch and YT are botted as fuck too. They just got cucked by cover hiding all the other stats they used to keep track of other than CCv

>>102996099
He owned an advertising company and worked with streamers for more than 10 years. Of course they recognize when they lose money betting on large streamers that are actually 2views.

When I saw kai cenat with 50k but his chat was slow af I figured that was the case. And no I don't watch him.

>>102995760
imagine being a youtube nigga and not knowing about the adpocalypse

>>102996190
>>102996196
There is a botting problem, nevertheless, never take what this fag says, he's the same nigga who has been saying how twitch is gonna die soon for like the past 6 years. This is almost r/lsf shit, but this dude has always been a clown almost to that nigga PirateSoftware level

>>102996296
usually his chats blazing fast but who knows how man W bots are actually there to be honest.

>>102996190
why would i watch a 5h+ vod? are you retarded lmao

>>102995443 (OP)
Why did ironmouse do this?

>>102996296
Yeah same but Ironmouse. Fuck Ironmouse, Vei and Nyanners all used to average 11k ccv back in 2021-22. I’m pretty sure Gunrun was botting them

>>102996340
Just pointing out why AD sponsors get even more fucked by twitch view botting, you fags don’t watch the vods. It’s literally twitch culture not to watch vods

>>102996395
because streamers are live all day long retard, it's not "culture", idiot

>>102996296
Hold it! Your Honor, there's a contradiction in Anon's statement. How could he have seen kai cenat if he doesn't watch him?

>>102995443 (OP)
twitch personally pays for the viewbotting to have the pedophiles of Night Inc as the highest watched channels.
it's the same thing on youtube, pewdiepie was their golden boy but after he left disney they moved efforts to mr beast. All of it under the direction of Ezra Cooperstein.

>>102996318
To add, the only times Devin Nash has ever been bullish on twitch was during the Esports era and then in 2021 when he backed legendary d&d streamer Arcadum.

>>102995443 (OP)
I mean we already know Nijis view bot like motherfuckers, specially Tokyo Ghoul.

Chat speed is a better indication of live viewership than the liveview count. It's always funny to see someone who supposedly has 40k+ watching them have a chat speed of like two per minute.

I feel like this was inside knowledge between streamers and only considered a conspiracy theory to the public right until normie twitch niggas started streaming and shamelessly bragging about viewbotting and how everyone is doing it and no one gets punished, calling it "free money".
Zero strategic foresight. No concept of honor amongst thieves. Retards will always ruin it for everyone else.

>>102996419
Whats being streamed should matter, aint watching react slop

>>102996468
>All of Twitch confirmed to be botting
>Niji out of nowhere
VPoachjo drone, you're not being paid anymore

>>102995443 (OP)
I'm pretty happy that both YouTube and Twitch are botted to shit. It completely delegitimizes the /#/ monkey's stupid numbers competition. Maybe if they can't find out the actual numbers, they'll be forced to actually watch streams.

>>102996099
if only there was some way of downloading the comments as a text file instead of fucking screenshotting the chat box and feeding it into chat gippity

So basically Hololive can't stop winning.

>>102996468
Which is why sponsorships are being lost to Holo and some others dropped. It happens in Holo too, notice how Gura sponsorships almost always had a follow up with other girls while Mori’s don’t.

>>102996246
A company he ran into the ground.

>>102996537
yea they somehow get away with being the most botted corpo despite their audience being anti-bot puritans.

water is wet

>>102996683
>the most botted corpo
Proof, schizo?

>>102996683
Daily reminder that Nimi's, ironmouse's and phase's concerts all failed to sell out while Hololive has yet to not sell out any of their concerts instantly
Call me when another company does this

>>102995534
45k legitimate youtubeGODS. Cope westoid ligger. Youtube is unbottable. Us Indian chad are capable of programmings westoids cannot even conceive of. We /#/chad owns the board. We own the world.

It really is just /v/ here at this point isn't it

>>102996568
That reminds me, is there any info is there has been a drop in sponsorships since the shark left? I might be too much into holo but I haven't seen much of a change.

>>102996522
Oh sorry I don't watch any of the Vpoachers, I was just autistic and didn't read this was just about Twitch.

>>102995443 (OP)
In case you don't realize how this is going to go since Twitch recently announced they're cracking down on "bots", evidencing they're suddenly conscious of it
>Advertisers don't like botted numbers since they're not going to get sales from bots
>So they're willing to pay Twitch much less for their ads
>This is why Twitch ad revenue sucks and twitchfags complain about it all the time
>But Twitch viewership is going down more and more, Kick is outperforming them in growth thanks to their own viewership payout
>Twitch was profitable for a little while but now it's being called into question
>With the recent ID verification push from the EU, UK, Youtube, etc. Twitch will be eyeing doing the same if it goes well enough
>This is because if they can verify every single viewer with an ID they can get a load of cash from advertisers for all their proven legit viewers
>Soon you will be forced to show your ID to have a twitch account, watch certain streams, or have access to certain features
>All so they can sell you more stuff, get better ad revenue for themselves, and sell all the data they collect on you personally to the ad companies for targeted ads

>>102995443 (OP)
>nash
this guy ready got laughed outta town

>>102996883
How did the Nimi concert go? I was too distracted with other shit and scanning artbooks for /e/ to keep track with how shit's been going for her aside from the whole getting married and unicorns being on suicide watch because they are retarded and didn't get that she was never their friend.

Recently started watching some indie JP girl on YouTube that someone posted here. Super cute, been around for 3 years, long ass gaming streams of old games, surprisingly can't find much info on her when I search. She has 80k+ followers, but seems to average 5k+ ccv and much more at times. Definitely getting botted considering a stream the other day had 20k+ ccv.

>>102995760
YouTube's algorithm also has viewer engagement in its calculations. They will send the big ads to vods that have a high number of likes and stable retention. That's why they beg to hit the like button.
Future YouTube algorithm changes are incoming to make it worse for raids, bots, and low chat (engagement) streams.

>>102995443 (OP)
Jarvis, post the webm of ironmouse chat speed comparison with anyone else.

>>102995497
phase dropped from .7 to .6% and is stuck there. they are barely holding on--not growing. that's not a win.

>>102997076
ririka?

>>102996099
this is the kind of solution you get when you hire bottom barrel devs. screenshots and ocr? really? there are tools to just grab the chat directly.

>>102997314
Kronii member stream vs Ironmouse 16k ccv Fortnite collab stream.

>>102997432
He said on stream that the API was limiting them because they grabbed too much data or something.
Not a IT guy so I don't know if he lied.

>>102995443 (OP)
>Our marketing agency is shocked at such manipulation!

>>102997447
It also depends if it's on the "everyone" and "highlight" chat right? Usually "Everyone" in the Youtube chat zooms like one crazy mofo specially if something too funny or lewd happens.

>>102995443 (OP)
he's probably correct but devin nash is huge faggot

>>102995443 (OP)
Maybe, just maybe, people are watching with adblocker and are not the target audience for your product. I keep multiple muted streams up on multiple tabs at the same time and flip between them as I like. Clearly I'm not a viewbot because a real human is watching the stream. But I have adblockers on. I see nothing they advertise unless it's a sponsored stream. And even then the odds I will spend my money on something I don't need is slim.

The advertisers are blaming viewbots for internet users being savvy.

>>102997483
it's not a lie, but you just create a new client on another IP. they're already doing that to do it with selenium.

>>102997447
grim

Botting? Never!

>>102995443 (OP)
I would trust /#/ over this guy, that's how incompetent at his job he is

>>102997447
Lol, I know a guy that gets 300~700 viewers that has a faster chat than that Ironmouse one.

>>102996883
Feel ashamed of other oshis? You showed them Suisei’s solo. Most already fell off.

>>102997447
Lmao one of my fleshstream boys that I watch, CalebHart got a wayyy faster chat that this and he's a fraction of Ironkek's ccv

>>102995472
Vshojo can't afford bots.

>>102996099
>Taking screenshots of the chat
HB1 indians devs not even once!

>>102998789
they can afford whatever they want when it's someone else's money

>>102998789
They are NOT that expensive dude

>>102997057
it was a full house despite the not sold out status and there were more stream tickets sold than expected.

>>102997447
grim...

>>102997483
Read again, the first solution was to take screenshots.
GPT was use to parse text from images after trying Tesseract.

Seems like an incredibly expensive and small sample way to achieve OCR.

>>102996099
holy fucking shit kek i can't believe how retarded this guy is
>Screenshoting chat
>feeding it into gpt
why would you admit these things
i'm making a thread on /g/ for this

>>102996099
has this retard never heard of chatterino or something?

Now way zigob is boted ! Those 30k viewers are legit !

No way ! Bigot is actually a 3k shitter ?! Who would have thought ?!

2-4views are subject to their paypigs viewbotters exploit the system for what its worth both strive for the same goal that goal being make as much money as possible no one wants the best for you everyones out to get you this world is an illusion

This was obvious from the start

Nooo my beloved zugyt is not boted !!!! She's not a 2.5k shitter noooooo noooo no critisitism my sabug ins in it's bad kek nooo why is the bot no is not real it's there talking is bot no bot no bot is no bot here critistism tits out fake graph I'm british

>>102995443 (OP)
Recently, there was an issue with Phase numbers during their sponsor, where they pulled far worse numbers than the usual. Apparently during sponsorships, most of them don't viewbot, with some exceptions such as the orgytuber which just straight-faced botted. It isn't just Twitch, unfortunately.

>>102999949
this is what i said jokingly with a clio stream which had way less numbers compared to normal streams im pretty sure its illegal to bot the sponsored stream

>>102997447
Irongrifter was always a pity-party
this just highlights how her whole ''community'' is a scam

>>103000007
That stream was sponsored by the way and the inflated ccv continued the next stream which wasnt sponsored

>>102995443 (OP)
>we did some digging
/#/fag-tier claim

The bots exist, but Twitch has a much bigger issue. Nobody who watches it actually cares about ads. The target audience of Twitch is kids and people who already buy what they are advertising. The people they should be advertising to simply are not there.

>>102999949
makes sense
they are trying to make a good impression on sponsors
and thus reveal their real hand
which is empty

>>102999949
yikes

>>102999949
>Apparently during sponsorships, most of them don't viewbot
Can you also post the rest of them?

>>103000049
>>103000007
>>102999949

>>102996099
hello saars here is your chat project thank you saars please recommend my fiverr to your friends sar

>>102999949
Well yeah. The constant twitter, /here/, reddit and literally everywhere shilling despite their shitty numbers isn't enough to convince you that they're the most manufactured company ever? They barely even exist. The shills even sound the same as the vshojo ones they had.

>>103000194
to be fair, i don't think anybody liked mindseye (and some people just avoid sponsored streams)

>>102996419
It's your crappy zoomer twitch culture where nothing your whore does matters.

>>103000194
>>103000284
This it already lacked wide interest and by the rime of that stream there were already a ton of reviews out calling the game dogshit.

>>103000194
Who the fuck watches #ad vod?

Sponsored streams tend to suck. I want sponsored streams like that yfubaby meal kit sponsored stream where she just violated every rule of food safety, used unwashed veggies, burned everything, and tried to compensate by mixing in an entire bottle of mayonnaise. That was actually entertaining.

"It" is botted every fucking stream and just happens to not get botted in a sponsored stream 10K people are not watching this boring fucking troon

>>103000284
>>103000320
Gogshit games are a buff not a debuff. People like to watch the streamer bitch about a shit game. Sponsors are a debuff but compared to 12 hours of EU4? C'mon. Clio did the same streams when she was a nobody and no one turned out for her.

>>102996883
There's no way Trump lost in 2020, look how packed his rallies were compared to Biden

>>103000488
I am a proud map-game loving history autist. You are not Clio's intended audience.

>>103000488
>Gogshit games are a buff, not a debuff.
Says who? Look at her sponsored KCD stream and see what is an interesting ad.

>>103000488
Are you retarded? Do you think she would bitch about a game she was being paid to shill?

>>103000568
i really wonder how much phase pays these shills

>>103000194
>Dota 2
Ever since Siska left, it's like no one can fill that hoel

>>103000546
Me too. Why would you watch Clio over OPB, iSorrow, Alex the Rambler, Bittersteel, etc?

>>103000181
Sure. Jelly for instance apparently was pulling something around her usual numbers, until you inspect the graphs, that is. Only 500 were legit views.

>>103000770
>they don't bot sponsored stream
>they bot sponsored streams
Which is it?

>>103001062
Those are raided numbers, you imbecile.

>>103000770
not a numberfag, doesn't the graph just indicate she was raided

>>103001147
>>103001062
Yes, but that means she was only able to get around 500 viewers by herself. Far less than what she usually gets.

>fucking console war with streaming sites
kys

>>103000591
This

>>103001294
Because seven other girls were streaming the same game at the same time, including Pippa who she shares viewers with.

>>103001144
>>103001294
So, are you saying low numbers for this super exciting game called mechabreak that everybody was hyped about are suspicious?

>>102995534
just post any Bibot stream lmao

>>103001433
>including Pippa who she shares viewers with.
You mean these numbers? KEK. Pippa can't even pass 1k without the daily bots injection. Her numbers are completely fake.

>>103001438
>Wow, a fucking chatting stream? LET'S GOOOOOOO

>>103002427
Do you even love your oshi if zatsu isn't her best content?

>>103002427
Why didn't you post the chart this time?

>>103002849
Aren't you the one moving goalposts? You're the one comparing cleaned numbers. Why are you comparing 500 (without raid) against 1900? Shouldn't you be comparing 1500 against 1900 instead?

But that doesn't support your argument anymore, right?

>>103002849
>>103003032
1600, not 1900

>>103003032
You're absurdly retard. Your previous argument was that a sponsor stream wasn't the best kind of stream to pull off numbers, after that, I posted a chat stream getting triple her non-raided numbers, which is also a non-raided stream and the worst kind of stream to pull off numbers. The reason that you failed to get that, is that you're a Phasecuck Discordfag trying to damage control your own bait thread after it backfired.

>>103003358
>which is also a non-raided stream
So, why don't you post the chart to prove it's not raided?

>>103003480
Delusional Phasetard.

>>103003757
Thank you, now your argument is complete, and we have come to the conclusion Phase is being booted. It was fun.

>>102995443 (OP)
I'm sick of the internet being a wage grind. I can't wait for some tech or business practice to come along and nuke this kind of stuff.

>>103002427
post break and post yab stream, drama buff

>>103004549
no wait wrong stream my bad

>>102996481
It's like modern piracy once normalfags caught wind of it and it became easy
>I'm going to pirate Nintendo games!
>Yeah fuck Nintendo!
>Here are some DIRECT links to emulators and ROM sites
>Everyone, go pirate these Nintendo games and say fuck'em!
These fucking retards have basically killed the scene now

>>103004631
No, it was her return stream.

>>103004733
damn I'm double retarded, a new record

>>103004549
>>103004631
>>103004733
>>103005020
Looks like you want more? No problem. Chat stream, not just-before, not after break. No raid, and during HEAVY overlap, including from this guy >>103001433 beloved Pippa who "supposedly" share views with her.

>>102995443 (OP)
This is actually kinda interesting, despite some caveats. He's
a) comparing users to viewers (more or less totally valid) and
b) running some analysis on chat and using botted chats as a proxy for viewbotting
Apparently, a lot of the very active chats on Twitch have what appear to be bots in them to simulate fast chat speed, spamming identical generic messages across multiple channels. They also tend to be pretty obvious, with automatically-generated usernames like "aaaa1" or "horatio8gonzales". So, essentially, having a fast chat isn't by any means a guarantee of legitimate users, you have to actually look at who's chatting and what they're saying.

That said, I'm not sure it's going to give people what they want. Finding a large number of these botted chatters would indicate botting, but if you don't have them you're left with the question of whether someone is botted or just has a slow chat. You also want to look at things like unique chatters, and see how many of them are legitimate. Also, his methodology is just bizarre here, he's taking screenshots of chat and running it through OCR rather than just directly pulling the raw text, which is something you can easily do, it comes off as very amateurish, at a lower level of coding skill than you see on many free third-party sites. That raises questions about whether he actually has the sophistication to make strong and specific claims about this.

>>102995472
erm you cant say that when mouse is literally and actually dying don't make connor upload another crying video

>>103005378
you mean all the spam isn't from real people?

>>103005378
While I don't think the conclusions are impossible or even unlikely, the methodology is so hilariously flawed that I straight up don't trust it at all. It also rings pretty plainly of willful interpretation of data, with stuff like
>logged in/logged out user ratios on top streams and compared the % to streams we knew weren't viewbotting.
A. just trust me bro these streams aren't botting/getting botted
B. audiences differ greatly, how people watch streamers, especially popular ones, is probably going to vary pretty wildly - if you just went to twitch and clicked on something on the front page and started watching, are you gonna be logged in? While you could draw a baseline of 'normalcy' here, demographics and watch patterns would most likely make it pointless
Again though, if this guy actually had a decent methodology and also released supporting data for people to independently verify, sure I'd buy it.

>>103005378
He's trying to prove what he wants to see. He doesn't need tools to see what he found out. What he's missing is the way to prove somebody is a bot account and a reliable means to recognize them. We know Twitch has been inflating its numbers since forever, especially with background viewers. Slow chat doesn't indicate how many bots exist. A simple claim that they do doesn't explain his failure to recognize which streams he should target with ads when the others are more successful than him.

>>103005748
Real people definitely do emote spam, so that's not proof positive in itself. He's making a stronger claim - a lot of the spam on Twitch is done by obviously fake accounts, across multiple channels, and is therefore probably tied to a bot network. That's actually very interesting and has the potential to expose a lot of people. Whether he can truly justify his claims of 35-55% of Twitch CCV coming from bots is another matter.

>>103005938
>a lot of the spam on Twitch is done by obviously fake accounts
That's true for literally any website.

>>103005938
bot spam is so fucking easy to catch though.
they never actually type emotes or anything relevant to the stream

>>103005378
You're also overlooking the messages that are just emote spam, something twitch is infamous for.

>>103006230
Those bots are there to advertise or be annoying. They do not inflate numbers in any meaningful way. A good bot just stays passive and, if needed, posts the emote or a reaction that the others are using. A simple chat analysis wouldn't be able to recognize a good bot farm from the usual twitch viewer.

>>103005938
emote spam is a low effort way to fake engagement though. if he really has all this data he can track accounts across streamers. are there accounts that always show up in vshojo streams and no other streams? things like that. the fact that he thought selenium and AI ocr was the best path says a lot though. i'm guessing whoever wrote that really milked him for hours on the contract.

>>102996534
i thought javascript slop was already a mistake, it's about to get much worse, we need huge data centers with millions of GPUs to run simple software now

>>103005832
I'm going to have to disagree with you on users/viewers. I think the VAST majority of people who watch streams on Twitch are logged in. There are exceptions, like big events or happenings, but almost everybody who is a regular viewer of streams makes an account at some point. There's a small percentage (maybe 5% at most) that refuses to log in.
>the methodology is so hilariously flawed that I straight up don't trust it at all
This I agree with. Someone who actually knows what they're doing needs to replicate this and get a real estimate. Also, I've followed esports for about 15 years and I know exactly who this guy is, he's suspicious as fuck and doesn't deserve to be taken at his word, but his general point could quite likely have something to it and I don't believe he's maliciously fabricating, just potentially having a really flawed methodology the messes with the numbers.

>>103005878
This is a good point, the guy literally JUST had his ad company go out of business, which should make us suspicious that he can really identify which streams are getting botted and which aren't. But the thrust of the claim is worth looking into, especially since Twitch itself is currently doing a crackdown on bots.

>>103006230
Just shitty bots. I don't believe in the age of LLMs they can't do any better.

>>103006270
Twitch, and every other streaming website.

Phase bots several girls they are trying to get popular and more momentum behind but it hasn’t worked like Uruka

>>103006632
Stop noticing for the second july in a row Uruka had 30k subs fall from the sky shhhhh

>>103006494
It would be interesting to see why and how he failed. Are the other companies not paying for ccv, or do they have a better knowledge about their target audience? They face the same problem, but somehow deal with it better.

>>103006494
I think users/viewers is unfortunately just real anecdotal. I have a Twitch account but almost never bother logging in, and I've been around since before it was Twitch. The folks I know who watch it at work don't generally log in either. Really proving that point one way or the other though would require data that you'd only really get by being Twitch, as data you could pull from an outside position is naturally suspect.
I think the strongest methodology this dude's described is tracking individual bots though and identifying clear identification criteria across multiple channels. Finding aaaa1123 posting identical messages across 25 channels simultaneously is strong proof. Assuming everyone that isn't logged in/chatting is a bot is comparatively useless. Ironically ML could be used here in strong ways like game anticheat developers use heuristic identification to flag suspicious activity, instead of vibe coding a completely shit solution.

Vedal’s “swam” turns out to be a botnet

>>103006913
Let me give you an obvious example.
These are two back-to-back IM streams one day apart. Top is sponsored Blue Archive stream, bottom is a variety stream.
The top stream has a user/viewer ratio of 0.38. The bottom stream, at its highest differential, has a user/viewer ratio of 0.95. The top stream was obviously, blatantly botted. The bottom was a normal stream where there were never more than 5% of users that weren't viewers. It's possible that certain streamers have users that are more likely to be logged out compared to others, but comparing users to viewers is a powerful tool to identify botted streams.

>>103007481
>streaming for 12 hours
damn son

>>102998789
They could, why do you think they ran out of money?

>>102995443 (OP)
surprising absolutely no one

>>103007481
I'll play devil's advocate here despite not really strongly believing this - but sponsored streams are profoundly different than core variety streaming. If you look at 'Users' as people who already follow, or at least strongly correlated with that, the difference makes a little more sense to me in that followers are naturally less interested in sponsored stuff - it's different than what they followed in the first place for (hence the 30%-ish lower 'Users' metric between those two streams). While a sponsored stream is often for something that appeals to an audience outside a particular streamer's niche, and would naturally grab more attention from the equivalent of catalog browsers - maybe blue archive is just high up on viewers or part of the sponsorship is an agreement with Twitch to highlight people playing it on recommendations/front page, making it naturally much more likely for people who aren't logged in to stumble across the stream rather than going to their follows and watching that way.
Again, I don't exactly believe that too terribly strongly, but it's definitely an avenue I'd want to try to account for before making strong conclusions. Anecdotally though, I've seen independents with sponsored streams get just lower views for sponsored content for what I'd imagine are reasons like I stated above (but minus the potentially made up scenario of front paging)

>>102995732
Because numbermonkeys are the botters and the astroturfers. That's literally what the thread is for.

is it also being taken into consideration that some larger streamers limit their chats with "subscribers only" mode and such?

>>103008055
>independents with sponsored streams get just lower views for sponsored content
I think this is the actual answer. IM gets 7-8k for variety, 5k for sponsored, and it was botted (or maybe frontpaged) to get it to 13k. I would have to go back and look at her prior sponsored streams to confirm this and that is way too much effort for a catalog thread.

>>103008400
Wouldn't affect what Devin is talking about at all. In fact it would eliminate the problem he's raising.

>>103008662
>Wouldn't affect what Devin is talking about at all. In fact it would eliminate the problem he's raising.
But it'd appear to exacerbate the views vs chat activity discrepancy, not eliminate it

>>103008763
It's not about views vs. chat activity. It's about chat activity from bots.

>>102996099
Nobody tell him Twitch chat is just IRC, let him waste his money

personally I don't watch sponsored streams because I know the streamer is going to be on a leash, self-censoring and being slightly out of character to gargle the sponsor's nuts. if shit sucks, streamer is forced to awkwardly lie about liking it, and if shit doesn't suck, it still feels like fake praise because its a sponsored stream. overall its a waste of time.

>>102996305
Looks like you haven't heard about it because you only know the name but not what it's about .

>>103009181
Neuro makes them fun somehow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smF86as9N3E

>>102995443 (OP)
This has deeper implications than people realize but I'm not gonna waste my breath explaining it to /vt/. Watch this if you care to learn or don't if you wish to stay blind and dumb.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW_H6K1womM

>>103007481
this is twitchtracker right? how can you see the users on the stream chart

>>102995615
Lirik is one of the few streamers most people would agree doesn't viewbot lol

>>103009604
IM has it enabled because she's signed up for twitchtracker for her subathon records.

>>102996296
Nobody on twitch uses the chat

>>102996883
Ironmouse can easily do this.

>>102996296
Guy is definitely botting but he does get like 100k subscribers every month so he does have a real base of supporters.

>>102995443 (OP)
Fucking hell, $1-3 per person? No wonder he was going broke. YouTube ad revenue pays like 6 cents for the same.

>>103010037
I could see him botting like an extra 10-20k viewers. With the rest of it being real

>>103009747
Ironmouse does not draw well in person.
The summer concert she was in sold out but it was a small 500 seat room. The time before she did a concert with kson and v4m it had maybe 100 people

>>102995534
wasn't this /#/ viewbotting her to see if the paid viewbots actually work?

>>102997447
even crazier that ironmouse's chat is just emote spam while kronii's chat has actual messages, and it's still slower

>>103009747
If she could, Vshojo wouldn't have died

>>102995534
i close chat during youtube streams to save my potato cpu.

ironically it can handle twitch chat, with all those custom emotes.

>>102996883
IronMouse and Mint*
Both were at Vshojo

>>102995443 (OP)
>hololive is culled
>everyone else is botted

you can tell who in phase are obviously botting as a company. they have been hard pushing to try and get their b-team up to try hard to get them accepted, while taking the bots off some of their a-team line up who dont need them anymore because the company will treat them as a-team regardless of their number

>>103010607
Same. Glad to know I'm not the only one. YT streaming is somehow more barebones and limited, yet so unoptimized and bloated. Anytime someone's multistreaming, the YT stream is always like 10 seconds behind the Twitch one.

>>103011114
who is their “A lineup”

I always felt like streaming in the post-covid era was a massive bubble waiting to be popped. View counts and subs/donos/superchats reasonably should've dropped off noticeably after covid lockdowns ended. The average viewer also likely has less free income to spend on subs/donos/superchats since cost of living has gone up in the past few years as well. It feels like our economy shouldn't be able to handle thousands people getting paid thousands of dollars just to stream themselves playing vidya even when considering it's only the top 1% of streamers that actually have any significant viewcounts and income.
I wouldn't be surprised if Twitch was tolerating this botting for a while so they could have good numbers to show the shareholders.

it was pretty sus that ironmouse was consistently one of the top streamers but i never actually seen anyone talking about her outside of numberfaggotry or drama nor was i ever recommended any clips of her
you would expect someone with her ccv to have some actual discussion about her streams

>>102996318
That's not a stupid take though, here in brazil streamers are already complaining how they get less money because of both less ads and how cheap they are; while local youtubers are doing just fine.
They also already closed twitch korea, it's a matter of time.
Devin's stupid take is thinking that linkedin is the future of content creation because the platform always delivers the content to your followers.

>>102996099
TL;DR: I don't think the streamers are viewbotting. Rather I believe that certain streamers would attract people who would interact more or less with the streamer and their sponsors.

Sentiment analysis for twitch chat is utterly useless without knowing the context of why a twitch chat behaves a certain way.

Twitch chats vary significantly depending on the streamer. A chat which is characterized by 7tv emote spam like Vedal or Kokonuts' would have GPT thing would detect it as spam. Most people in a Projekt Melody or Matara Kan stream prefer communicating in full sentences, but maybe the lack of message volume may indicate spam. Some other vtubers have thousands of viewers, but strangely not that much chat activity. Which of the three channels would be considered "view-botted?"

The nature of chat also highly depends on what the streamer is streaming. Just chatting streams tend to have more chat activity than gaming streams for example.

I doubt that most streamers are view-botting. What I think is happening is certain streamers generate more money per viewer in ad-campaigns than others for reasons outside of viewbotting. Remember when Uruha Rushia had the most superchatted revenue of all hololive members even though she never had the most viewers? Is that because everyone else is view-botting? Absolutely not. She just streamed in a way which was more conductive to farming superchats.

>>103012192
>Twitch chats vary significantly depending on the streamer.
this
fucking kokos chat is insanely fast for the numbers she has

>>103012358
who tf is koko

>>102995534
Malicious view botting is(or at least was) a thing to try to get streamers into trouble.

>>103012800
Monkey twitch vtuber, usually around 1.3k views. Very unorthodox stream style where TTS and chat becomes the star of the show. Koko herself tends to be more blunt and content coded than the average vtuber. You can see how this stream style creates a spam driven chat. Most people either love or hate Koko streams.

>>103013172
Yeah her streams give me a headache but I think they are hilarious.

>>103009747
Not many people actually like the grifterrat.

>>103011517
I would get ironrat clips recommended but that's because a henya clip channel would upload them occasionally

>>103009593
The implication is that Twitch is worthless

>>102996099
>We use Selenium
Well yeah that's how he bots his own streams.

>>102995443 (OP)
That an open secret. I first noticed it with admiralBahroo. fake it till you make it it's an longtime investment and it pays out.
Even 15 years ago SC2 streamers botted each other. If you just wanna crash on the couch and talk to 4-20 random people while playing a game sure just hit the stream button but if you wanna be a streamer you need to play the system.

>>103012192
I have been long enough on 4chan and yes even fandiscords to know that people will record the chat of every stream and if some shizo didn't like your msgs he will post all of your history online as his personal vendetta. It's part of my reason why i don't chat even if it would help the streamers statistics
I do hit the like button on every stream but Twitch doesn't have that so maybe i just count as a bot then.

To your last point. Rushia was in Hololive and used Youtube. She had a preroll and and endroll ad but no ads inbetween, totally different from Twitch that basicly forces you to run ads every 30 minutes. So for her it didn't matter how many watch it live.

>>102996883
Daily reminder that you're a faggot.
Call me when when these and the discord spreadsheets sell out

>>103015957
Wait, so Suisei actually failed to sell out? LMAO

>>103016046
it's the EN concert

>>103016237
It's not all the brazzs, they sell tickets in waves so the whole stadium isn't even available to be sold right now.

>>102995534
Yes, we know YouTube gets botted too, what's your point?

>>102995443 (OP)
Proof?

>>102996099
>Gpt

Fucking grim

>>103015957
What does Verified Resale means?

>>103016812
>What does Verified Resale means?
that you are ESL

>>103016879
That doesn't asnwer my question.

>>102995443 (OP)
>>102996099
>>103005378
What a clown.
And people will believe this bullshit.

>>103016812
Means people with the tickets don't want to be there. But hey, at least Yagoo got his moneym, that's the important thing.

>>103017013
Seethe more about it, twitchfag

i dont see ads from people i watch because i sub to them, unless they're some 2/3view i am just casually watching

>>102995534
reminder that her yt vod of that stream got literally slashed by like 98% of the views, because youtube removed all the bots from it

>>103010123
thats not from ads thats direct sponsorship deals

>>102995472
no way

>>103011517
Maybe it's because you're a numberchimp from /#/ and don't look at threads where people actually talk about ironmouse. Just a guess though.
She even had her own thread here for months after her last subathon despite half of the anons voting to go back to /vsj+/ after it's over

>>102996099
It's a fucking IRC with a wrapper, this can't be your solution

>>102996190
There are obvious viewbots and 30-40% of viewers are bots and 5-15% embeds is two different claims you monkey

>>102996305
Almost like the adpocalypse and sponsors for videos are two different things, retard.

>>102995443 (OP)
Tbh this proves that despite the flaws of vtuber agencies, indies are just an incoherent random mess lacking direction. Hololive, you get a five course meal curated by a chef, indies you get a random slop from the buffet, the meatballs mixing with the chocolate cake, the fried shrimp smushed into the pudding. And the menu keeps on changing, and increasing in size. Accessibility is important and that's what you get with corpos

my biggest surprise is the $1-3 per ccv lol what
>>103010607
same for me

>>102995472
It's pretty funny when you compare the chat speed of a 10k Ironmouse stream vs a 10k Neuro-sama stream.
This isn't some anti-Ironmouse post if you know, you know.

>>103023046
>>103011128
>>103010607
Late reply but you need HyperChat addon to make Youtube chat usable. It runs to a complete hault even on high-end PCs because it's a piece of garbage.

>>102995443 (OP)
Wow Devin thats crazy how you would break news about Twitch bots the day before you went live with an interview with the CEO of Kick.

>>103016812
It means rather than being sold directly by the venue, it was packaged to be sold through ticketmaster or another verified reseller.

>>102995443 (OP)
A lot of schizos will bot you for no reason.

>>102995472
one of the vshojolites literally confirmed that the first vshojos bought viewbots as well

>>102997483
He lied, getting rate-limited is standard practice but in this case you dont, because of twitch culture of bots and i mean bots that the streamers themselves setup to help with moderation and such (like Fossabot)

This type of bots are across thousands of channels and thats why twitch doesnt really rate limit them, at least not for reading twitch IRC channels, you can easily read/get the top 500 stremers chats in real time without a problem (i was doing about 2k streamers for fun a few months ago)

whatever he was/is doing is probably some ai slop code chat gpt gave him and is super retarded

>>102996099
> has chat in text format
> saves it to an image
> uses OCR to get it back into text format
> asks ChatGPT if the chatter is a bot
This guy is definitely a genius and worth listening to. Pure kino.

>>103023364
>jeet who's entire career is making a vtuber bot
>doesn't bot views
lolk

>>102997483
How does saving the text as an image help with that? Twitch chat is just an IRC chat. If you can screenshot it you could also just save the text directly...

>>102996190
> why won't anybody think of the advertisers!!!!!

>>103028067
>T. Seething Twitchfag

>>103029053
i'll explain since you seem to be too retarded to keep up. everyone who has any programming experience is laughing at how bad his solution is. it's seriously hard to think of a stupider way to solve the problem.

>>103029457
>Twitch isn't botted, this guy is a big stupid head
LMAO

>>103006494
>Twitch, and every other streaming website.
holy retard

>>102995631
>still holding onto that four year old unsourced pie chart
Pathetic

>>103026459
Who?

>>102995631
If you actually looked at the streams you'd see there's no evidence of botting

>>103022002
anon what the fuck does that have to do with the OP

>>102995443 (OP)
I mean, it's obvious, SOCIAL PROOF is all people need to like something. If a stream is being viewed by others it means is good.

YT chat is pure shit. The emote only spam is getting crazy and then there are fucks like you who will archive anything someone said in chat. I do believe a lot of the emote spam is from engagement bots

>>102995577
>it's just a one-off
You're either an intellectual invalid or a shill, there is simply no in-between. In both cases you need to shut the fuck up.
>>102995443 (OP)
>Your perceptions are being deceived
WELL NO SHIT

What, did you think the 3rd world wouldn't grift the 1st world via clickbait, viewbotting, ad revenue, simps and scams? Wake the fuck up and support an indie today or you're a part of the problem.

>>103039633
do indies not do those things

>>102995443 (OP)
Quick pretend to be surprised

>>103024002
did he bring up that 90% of kicks viewership are from bots that third worlders use to qualify for the incentive program

this dude has spent the last 5 years promising that he has insider info that will kill twitch and will release it within days then nothing comes from it, last year it was ads and the year before it was that everyone at twitch hates israel

>>103038061
So much shit is filtered and people self-censor so much to avoid it

>>102996920
You're now just realizing this