Why are the exJPs more irrelevant than Holostars? Month over month they lose viewers.
Just like that Yagoo wins?

>>103205176 (OP)
Who's the blue hair at bottom left?

>>103205176 (OP)
Viewbotting privileges expired.

>>103205288
>smugly looks at you

>>103205288
garlic

>>103205176 (OP)
>Ex-holo does well
Holo wins
>Ex-Holo doesn't do well
Holo doesn't lose
>Holo does well
Holo wins
Simple as

>>103205176 (OP)
in the same way that biodiversity promotes evolution and genetic change. Collabing in the content creating space promotes differing audiences to mix and grow. Low collab potential limits growth.

>>103205497
It's... actually kind of ironic.
Ex-holos in EN get drastically more collab opportunities by leaving the holo sphere, but in Japan they're everywhere, so it sort of becomes the opposite.

What's notAchan been up to anyways? I remember she said something about wanting to help all vtubers. Any progress on that?

>>103205176 (OP)
That's what you get for being a traitor. Only graduation I have respect for is Mumei's, as she didn't become an indie

>>103205176 (OP)
JP fans are different than EN fans.
Which is better is up for debate.

>>103205719
none of those collab opportunities would be there if they aren't ex-holos. they are definitely still part of the holo sphere of influence, just not under the actual company.

>>103205176 (OP)
JP = chuubas are idols, they leave their group/unit then to fans they are effectively retired/gone
EN = chuubas are entertainers, to fans changing avatars are just equal to changing clothes

>>103205176 (OP)
>>103205497
>>103205719
Imo I think its just a West vs East issue on how corporations are perceived
In the West generally people really anti-corpo and dislike big business, so when a vtuber quits her corp it's viewed as being "brave" and "daring" so they pull in a bunch of tourist viewership from rubber-neckers who are only interested insofar as because they graduated
While in the East there's generally a more neutral relationship with large corporations, so when a vtuber quit their corpo, the reaction mostly just "ok, good for you I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ " and they have to make a more protracted effort to their viewers engaged with their content, because just being ex-corpo alone won't do it

>>103205176 (OP)
Whats the difference between the eye symbol and the person symbol

>>103206099
>in the East there's generally a more neutral relationship with large corporations
that's putting it mildly, usually the eastern/asian countries are turbo corpofags

>>103206099
>maintaining your viewership when you leave the company is "tourists and rubber-neckers"
it's hilarious how you try to spin this

>>103205833
That's not true at all. Those opportunities came because they aren't in holo and thus don't have to deal with holo's collab restrictions.
>>103206099
Not really.
In this case it's more of a HoloEN is relatively big, but it's extremely isolated to its own box. Once you leave it, the options open up drastically.

Though again, it's not like they're taking advantage of it. The girls who left are the shy solo acts anyways.
The only significant collab you get now that you can't get inside is Doki/Mint, or the other alums, though it likely does save headaches trying to set up collabs with people due to not having to send everything through staff.

>>103206288
>Once you leave it, the options open up drastically.
The only thing ex-HoloEN members have done is collab with other HoloENs

>>103205833
That's not true at all. Those opportunities came because they aren't in holo and thus don't have to deal with holo's collab restrictions.
>>103206099
Not really.
In this case it's more of a HoloEN is relatively big, but it's extremely isolated to its own box. Once you leave it, the options open up drastically.

Though again, it's not like they're taking advantage of it. The girls who left are the shy solo acts anyways.
The only significant collab you get now that you can't get inside is Dokibird or the other alums, though it likely does save headaches trying to set up collabs with people due to not having to send everything through staff.

>>103206268
>it's hilarious how you try to spin this
There's really no other logical explanation for when you see a corpo leave and then somehow GAIN better viewership than they had while in their corpo
Why didn't those people watch them back then?

>>103206410
>when you see a corpo leave and then somehow GAIN better viewership than they had while in their corpo
They don't
Everyone who left HoloEN has the same viewership as when they left

all im sayin is they'd generate a lot of hype if Kson, Rica, Ruka, Sakuna, and Roa did a big event together.

>>103206430
Probably not as much as you'd think.

>>103206424
>In the West generally people really anti-corpo and dislike big business
You literally said this yourself. Honestly I can relate since I started watching Henya more after vshojo collapse.

>>103206467
i aint sayin it would break records or anything

>>103205176 (OP)
>>103205831
Kekson’s in shambles. She used to be big, with the edge of managing both sides, so why did she fall so hard?

>>103206424
>Everyone who left HoloEN has the same viewership as when they left
Not really?
Saba is pulling 20-50k on some of her streams which hasn't really pulled since like 2021, Nimi had a solid 14-15k average that didn't really decreased until fairly recently
I think the only ex-HoloEN that pulls that exact same numbers as they do when they left is Dooby, but she's addicted to self-sabotaging her potential and does dumb shit like split her viewerbase on YT on Twitch

>>103206603
Nimi is falling off and lost to fucking Kaela overlapping her a few times.

>>103206603
>Nimi had a solid 14-15k average
no she didn't, it was lower than that
Saba has high viewers but what are you gonna compare that to? She hasn't streamed in Holo for 3 years

>>103206410
The only ones with significant increases are the ex-nijis, not the holos, on top of getting dogshit treatment in Niji.
But again, that's due to their networking. The ex-holos haven't even tried to network.

>>103206522
It's inevitable. You know her old streams used to average about 1k-2k viewers right? It's the asacoco and the meme review (feat. x holo of the week) that brought her the big fame. Since she doesn't have co-workers to make a show around she fell to her natural state.

>>103205176 (OP)
Collabs and interaction between people who are good at entertaining viewers are what give holos their high viewership.

Easiest example - kson.
She had excellent chemistry with both kanata and with pikamee.
But collabs with kanata were more enjoyable because kanata is funnier, more quick-witted and more endearing than henya.

The holos keep pushing each other to improve, and helping each other through tough times. Over the past 5 years they've become a proper functioning team. Indies and other corpos will never have that kind of natural support system.

>>103206603
Nimi has lower YT viewers compared to her last year in Holo
Saba has about equal YT viewers no compared to her last year in Holo
Dooby has about equal YT viewers no compared to her last year in Holo, but she gets about an additional 1/5-1/4 from twitch

>>103206794
>Nimi has lower YT viewers compared to her last year in Holo
Wasn't fauna one of the most unpopular en holos?
I think she was the last in her gen to hit 1M and had the lowest viewership and superchats among all EN.

>>103206888
>Wasn't fauna one of the most unpopular en holos?
The opposite

>>103206888
No? Aside from Gura, Fauna had pretty much the highest ccv in Holo before she graduated.

>>103206888
>Wasn't fauna one of the most unpopular en holos?
Maybe in like 2021, but as time went on her CCV really ballooned

>>103206430
You're forgetting someone.

>>103206771
She used to average 15k–20k, then somehow jumped to 40k–50k. Now without her coworker, she’s back to 5k? What kind of excuse is that?

>>103207032
nah the evil spirit is a negative multiplier

>>103206430
One or two times. That's it.
That's why kson only does collabs with ex holos only twice a year.

>>103205176 (OP)
The Japanese are actual corpo drones. The no blue dorito, no watch meme is not satire when referring to the nips. Their people are biologically bees and independent thought is a genetic crime.

>>103207073
>She used to average 15k–20k
Coco? What are you even saying? The only streams where she pulled any numbers is the leddit meme reviews. She was pretty low tier otherwise.

>>103206430
>Kson
Now that she is free of vshojo the chances are looking up but then again she may be mired in legal bullshit too
>Rica
Outside Kson I wouldn't hold your breath; seems like those who have exited were more coworkers than friends to her and she seems intent on ignoring them while paling around literal whos. Hell she hasn't done a collab with Kson in over a year
>Ruka
Has she done ANYTHING besides solo streams and collabs with her sister or whatever that chick is to her that is her unit mate
>Sakuna
Maybe with Roa? But her needing a new model may be impacting that
>Roa
This is the likeliest one of the bunch, hell I wouldn't even put her past her to do something with Saba one day

>>103205176 (OP)
I dunno man. Seems pretty good to me.

It's fucking huge if you can get 1000 over people to watch your stream and more importantly, they're getting paid big time without corpo taking half the cut while having almost zero obligation.

>>103206792
>The holos keep pushing each other to improve, and helping each other through tough times.
From what I've seen it's the opposite.
They know they can slack off and someone else will pick it up, so they're prone to coasting.
After all, it's not like most of the holobox fans give a shit who exactly is on that day. They just watch whatever's Holo.

And the few that do want to do more? They get slammed back down by management and watch all of their projects get delayed or dismissed years in.

>>103207577
>Built a kingdom, then just tossed the crown? Wow, such dedication! Why even bother, right?

No shit, Sherlock. Took Hololive perks, left, and ended up where she started. So why join at all?

Kekson had no coworkers, but Vshojo had plenty. File the divorce with them too.

>>103208287
>And the few that do want to do more? They get slammed back down by management
EN is not the whole of holo.

>>103208456
Fair I guess.
EN's problem is mostly management, but JP definitely has a LOT of coasters like Choco, Ayame, Iroha, etc.

At this point like 80% of holo is just a moeblob that doesn't do anything to stand out.

>>103208626
NTA but the moeblob is the thing that made holo stand out

>>103208878
I guess that's true.
I dunno, man. It just doesn't sit right with me and is definitely a cultural difference. I care about the individuals far more than the group.

>>103205176 (OP)
so what happened to notAqua?

I must say, for how much >we dislike numberfags in /#/, a not insignificant part of this thread basically justified their existence. That’s a lot of, at best, ignorance and at worst, misinformation about numbers in this thread, holy fuck

>>103206169
i think eye means live views during streaming, and person means views as a VOD

>>103209332
Not much. She is doing as she said before - just chilling and going at her own pace. She hasn’t been streaming much recently because she got some decent sponsorship / job and found out how much works an indie has to put in for that

>>103209420
well as long she is not whoring out or went menhera then i guess it's fine on my book. Some graduates just wanted to chill and streaming as a side job

>>103208626
>At this point like 80% of holo is just a moeblob
That's 80% of the entire appeal of anime for the past 2 decades

> that doesn't do anything to stand out.
Now that's just you trying to be contrarian.
Take 3 moeblobs from the same gen - Watame, kanata, Luna
Their streaming styles have almost nothing in common.

>>103208287
Outside of one or two that they've given up on, all we see is non stop encouragement to each other.
Even when one of them is hospitalised and has surgery there are more messages about "can't wait to play with you soon" instead of "take rest".
Miko, Subaru, nene etc. are constantly harassed by suisei to finish her projects.
Iroha literally lost her voice, and multiple holos kept collabing with her while she stuttered and stammered till she was able to regain some speed while speaking (she's still only 70% back to her old self).
And any time anyone starts feeling down Subaru throws a party at her shack inviting a bunch of people to cheer then up (she even gifts then inflatable nagitana's and allows korone to grope the girls at the party)

>>103209332
>>103209420
I like how you glossed over the fact that she hasn't streamed in weeks because her artist got arrested for diddling kids.

>>103210298
I guess I'm just jaded then, because I have a hard time seeing anything like that lasting, and it definitely wouldn't extend for 40+ girls in the company.
I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

>>103206522
>Kekson’s in shambles. She used to be big, with the edge of managing both sides, so why did she fall so hard?
Brand loyalty
Why it's admirable for those who have the courage to leave, and handle everything themselves, without a corpo.
It's hard work, but more satisfying.
Respect Doki, Nimi, and Saba for breaking the mold in the West. Little hope for JP fans.

>>103205288
Z KAKA

>>103209420
Imagine making excuses for these lazy bitches not streaming

>>103205176 (OP)
>yubari rei
She's not an ex holo, she was staff and not a contracted vtuber. That's why she left and is now a vtuber, because she wanted to be a vtuber. Everything she has now is up from nothing. It's Hololive's fault they didn't give her a proper vtuber contract.

>>103210635
wouldn't have been arrested in america
they actually have freedom

>>103205176 (OP)
they never collab with each other. that's something hololive regularly enforced.

JP has a larger roster, this causes the individual to stand out less

>>103211053
Is that really making excuses when she clearly told you she was going to take it easy and not stream as much anymore?

>>103206888
She had her niche and filled it very well, consistent streams on the same days and time had helped her keep her audience well into Nimi. The others in her gen while had more subs, honestly streamed about half as much as Fauna did, though you can say they most certainly invested more in doing MV, and solo concert more than Fauna, but her fans didn't care about that.

>>103211107
True.
Rich people never get punished here.

>>103205176 (OP)
kill yourself windy

>>103210905
>Enter the keywords you're looking for in the search box
>kson nationality
Doki averages 3k, though. These two don’t deserve to stand next to Saba.

>>103206522
She tried to make a giga menhera her new Kanata and barely did collabs with indies and her jp coworkers (and i'm not even gonna mention the fleshie stuff)

>>103212202
third world threadreader

>>103205176 (OP)
>god tier designs in Holo
>redebut with this generic shit
I mean come on

>>103212304
Mel and Chloe were sidegraded at worst, but yeah, everyone else was a downgraded, including Coco

>>103212202
>giga menhera
who?

>>103206330
You mean Saba. Doob and Nimi were already manipulated to collab with the nijishitters by indiefags

EN fans care less about the company and the group as a whole. People still love collabs, but the brand means less to them than it does your average Jap. Everyone gets the tourist bump on both sides right after redebut, but there are more people anti-corp on the western side that are more willing to give them a chance as a 'solo act' which means they recover some chunks of their viewership that they lost from being 'part of the box'.
There's also a difference between losing 1/10th of your talent pool (3 of 37 + achan) and losing just shy of 1/5th of your talent pool (4 of 23). One is a lot more noticable than the other, and then you add in that two of them got the bigger viewership from the western audience when they'd stream (Gura and Fauna) and it's not too hard to see why some people's faith in the Holobox was shaken and they just stepped back/slowed down on consumption.
HEY COVER, STOP PUSHING SO MUCH GOD DAMN MERCH. WESTERNERS HATE UNABASHED SHILLING 24/7

>>103214483
>Doob and Nimi were already manipulated to collab with the nijishitters by indiefags
Except they reached out while still in Holo, so your cope is pathetic.

>>103214483
never happened

>>103205176 (OP)
Aqua: was getting 24K+ ccv in Holo, now at 10-12k ccv
Shion 14-18k ccv in Holo, now at 5-6K ccv.
Chloe: 5-8k ccv in Holo, now 3-4k ccv.

They all lose half their viewership because Hololive gives them a 100% bot increase (Cover Corp started to give JP members a bot boost after they saw the EN branch come in and absolutely wreck the JP branch for the first few months)

But also on top of that, they aren't allowed to collab due to a Non-compete clause placed upon them. If they start to collab again and form a JP indie community, their viewership will start to go up. EN didn't get that Non-compete clause because American Laws prevent that.

>>103205176 (OP)
Rei is an exception, she's doing fine for someone who didn't even have her own channel before

>>103214875
Meds

>>103205176 (OP)
because vtubing already plateud and is on the decline.

>>103205176 (OP)
The only thing EN has going for it is the Holo brand. They do not actively produce content. They are just inheriting the legacy as ex-Holos, and that alone is enough to carry their viewership because that is all they are worth. JP is different. They have constant events and interactions between members. Just this week we have had daily Pekora Marine exercises and a Smash tournament. That is a privilege you lose once you graduate, and the viewers truly value that kind of content.
That said, EN is playing with fire right now. Once they break the illusion behind the logo, the entire structure could collapse. If the current members just sit back and let others farm off the brand without contributing anything themselves, the whole scene is at risk. This is not a win lose situation. It is lose lose if they do not act.

>>103215103
I fucking hate how little anyone in EN outside of Mori and sometimes Kiara try to push branch stuff. It doubly pisses me off when I see shit like this said by talents who actively go out of their way to participate in a good chunk of the JP stuff but do jack shit to try and promote EN as a whole.

>>103215103
seethe sister

>>103206522
>t. Bugman

>>103215158
>try to push branch stuff
It's not like everyone in JP does that. There's also only a handful of talents there who organize branch-wide events and such.

>>103215479
It doesn't help that everyone is in different timezones as well. Half of EN is JP time, a third is NA, and another third is EU. Issue is that a majority of viewership is in NA, which is why most EN talents have to suck it up and show up to group events that are at a bad time for them. No more of this 'But it's x oclock!' shit, and Kiara is 100% on my shitlist for that kind of thing, along with ERB.

>>103208626
>Iroha
There are much better examples than the talent who makes a ton of originals.

>>103214875
>Exholos didn't fall off, cover always botted them
Nappcucks are absolutely fucking losing it ever since she started falling off. This is even dumber than "negabots".

>>103214073
Tomari Mari

>>103205176 (OP)
Cover doesn't get a cut so it still ends up being better

>>103205176 (OP)
Top right looks cute. Who was she?

>>103205176 (OP)
There are so many JP vtubers it's unreal. It's so saturated.

>>103215457

>>103215457
Says the guy who worships Kekson.

>>103205176 (OP)
>Just like that Yagoo wins?

>>103223213
This is why many left and why others will leave.
Let's see what happens at the end of the year and the beginning of next year.

>>103205176 (OP)
even when they're at their most irrelevant they are still more relevant than Holostars

>>103205176 (OP)
JP are less loyal to the chuubas than to the company, that's how it is.