Thread 104215566

As someone in his 30s who's never really been a fan of western pop culture, let alone eastern pop culture, what's with the idol thing and its' prevalence in the vTuber sphere? Even when it comes to japanese music I tend more toward jRock and bands of various genres(metal, hardcore punk, goth) that just so happen to be Japanese and find the whole idol thing baffling. Can someone explain this to my autismo brain?

>>104215566 (OP)
Fans together strong (if you're talking about concerts)
Everyone is there in that moment, nobody's recording shit, makes the sololives and group events feel completely different

>>104215566 (OP)
It is just incel cope culture.

>>104215698
You need to go back to your cave.

>>104215662
I'm referring to the whole cultlike thing that builds around idol culture. I don't get it. To me it's just somone who sings and/or dances, or otherwise makes music. I don't see what makes it special compared to other music or why people become so obsessed with the "idol".

>>104215839
Unc, it’s about the idol journey of your oshi. You watch and support them from their debut and watch them follow their idol dreams that ultimately culminates with them performing on stage for their fans.

Why do people cheer at sports games? Why do people get emotional about their team winning the championship?

>>104215973
Because they are unironically far too invested in something which the outcome means nothing at the end of the day. People build their identities on shit like their favorite sports team, do you really want to be the same as that?

>>104216062
that sounds like dramafags here in vt, they anti just for the lulz, spending a lot of time talking shit to other anons

>>104215922
Why even have an oshi? I enjoy several vTubers but generally don't give a shit about vTuber music.
>>104215973
I've never understood this either. I'm not a sports fan and never really have been. Sometimes it's nice to see your hometown team win, sure, but I've never understood being that invested in it.

>>104215566 (OP)
The concerts are a different vibe. It feels more like everyone's sharing energy and building each other up, as opposed to American idols who are just thrusting their egos in your face the whole time.
That's the positive aspect of it. The unicorn shit sucks and needs to be put in the bin

>>104216258
I guess I just don't get it because I don't like jPop. I can't give a shit about a musician if I don't like their music.

>>104215566 (OP)
people will say it's because of hololive, but it goes further. if you have a cute girl but not a lot of ideas on how to make her relevant enough to feed a gravy train, you can either make her a pornstar or an idol. the west doesn't have idol culture so most female content creators need to be attractive, they only pivot to vtubers recently because it opens up the avenue for them.

you can't survive from the royalty of music alone unless you're already a household name. that's why suisei only dropped her idol act after she made it big.

tldr: because idols generate a large and stable flow of income in the existing japanese market.

>>104215566 (OP)
fippy bippy >>104215662. The concerts are a different vibe. It feels more like everyone's sharing energy and building each other up, as opposed to American idols who are just thrusting their egos in your face the whole time.
That's the positive aspect of it. The unicorn shit sucks and needs to be put in the bin

>>104216356
you're a faggot lol

>>104215839
You have absolutely nothing that you are even remotely passionate about?

>>104215566 (OP)
It's tried and tested method of sheering simps of their money.

>>104215566 (OP)
>I don't get it
That's the thing about hobbies, retard, it's not for everyone. Just move on.

>>104216734
Nta, but I share his sentiment and you're a fucking retard. What kind of retarded question is this. In my case I feel the same way he does about idol cult of personality stuff, because I'm passionate about my own creative endeavors and projects, or specific bits of media that I find every single part of it and it's creation process engaging.

The key thing here is that I'm not passionate about a specific person. It's all either stuff I'm making personally, or things other people made.
What you're asking feels as weird to me as like, being confused some Anon is more interested in an LotR than Tolkien himself.

>>104217114
I don't consider anything that's purely consumption, to be a hobby.
I think it's a legitimate form of entertainment to watch vtubers, I hate how people have ruined the word but "valid" is the apt way to put it. It's a valid form of entertainment, but if you're purely on the receiving end I don't consider it a hobby. You have to actually create something through effort in the process, for me to consider it a hobby.

To use a stereotypical analogy, it's the difference between cooking and eating. You wouldn't think twice if someone said their hobby was cooking. You'd look at them weird if they said their hobby was eating.

>>104216332
>the west doesn't have idol culture so most female content creators need to be attractive
yeah unlike in japan where idols can be ugly

>>104217350
There's a class of losers who do not create or actively participate anything so they consider watching and buying merchandise to be a hobby

>>104216504
seethe harder unikek

>>104215566 (OP)
Tldr imagine Eminem's Stan but it's just old lonely japanese salarymen stanning for girl(s). And just like Stans they're incredibly possessive of their idols that she can't even be breathing the same air of another male.

>>104217350
>>104217350
>I still don't get it
That's the thing about hobbies, retards, it's not for everyone. Just move on.

>>104217404
>There's a class of losers who do not create or actively participate anything so they consider watching and buying merchandise to be a hobby
I think it's just lack of a better term. "Scene" would be more correct, but that word is associated with pretentious music snobs.

If you watch the concert on a stream in your underwear you didn't really watch it
Unless you sweat and feel lightheaded after being on your feet for 2 hours and your arms are tired, you didn't really experience it

>>104217404
Case and point >>104217459
>Actually you're just not able to "get" what's so great about my hobby

Unlike you, when someone asks me why I like any one of my hobbies, I can, and gladly do, actually explain what I find so compelling about them in great detail. And whenever I have, the person asking me was super engaged and enjoyed hearing my explanations.
And usually when I ask someone about their hobbies, they behave the same way, too, albeit to a bit lesser of an extent since they usually haven't given it as much thought as I have, but they still try.

Which leaves us wondering what it says about you that your go to response is to demand they shut up.
Makes you think, doesn't it.

>>104216734
Sure I do, but nothing that resukts in obsessing about other people. Half the time I don't even know the real names of musicians that I like. Their music is what I care about, not their person.
>>104217447
To me that seems a form of psychosis that really should not be encouraged.
>>104217498
I've been to quite a few concerts over the years and I do think that there needs to be something physical to it, but I don't get proscribed dances and shit like that. I just like to stand in the crowd and maybe dance and sing a little to my favorite songs. Sometimes it's fun to share a few words with the band afterwards, thank them for coming out, shake their hand, take a picture and get a CD signed or something, but I don't understand people acting obsessive, and I've met some big names over the years.

>>104216163
>I've never understood this either. I'm not a sports fan and never really have been. Sometimes it's nice to see your hometown team win, sure, but I've never understood being that invested in it.
1. Sports are boring.
2. At least in Chuubaland, there's more audience interaction. Write a good superchat and you might actually make an impression on them - not a huge one, but they might laugh and even remember your name on a future stream. Mr. Football Man will never know or care that you exist unless they're making a stop for the Make-a-Wish Foundation.

>>104217631
It's not for you. Shut up and move on.

>>104215922
In other words : "I'm trash at singing and dancing, but don't worry, I'll get better so you HAVE to follow me now so you can brag in 5 years. What, I haven't improved in 5 years ? You're a hater !!!!"

>>104217638
>but I don't get proscribed dances and shit like that.
You don't need to do wotagei (in fact most of the people doing that stuff are just attention whores looking to get the camera on them or something), most people are waving along to the beat, whether that's fast, a steady rhythm, or waving back and forth side to side during a ballad like you've got an electronic lighter in your hands.

>>104217260
>>104217638

So you're saying you're not passionate about the person but their creation? What do vtubers create? vtubers all do the same shit theyre bottom of the barrel generic stuff. The only difference is the person. If you don't care about the person, why even watch? All vtuber's works/creation, you get better elsewhere. Genuine question, why are you even watching vtubers?

>>104217638
>but I don't get proscribed dances and shit like that. I just like to stand in the crowd and maybe dance and sing a little to my favorite songs
If you're seriously trying to understand these guys, it will all make more sense if you think of vtubing as literal cults of personality, just without the usual "occultism or various criminal activities" connotation of the term.
All the behaviors are those of a cultist. Take >>104217652 and his insistence, for example.
>Why is this non-believer continuing to spout this heretical bullshit in our church? Why is he allowed to keep asking questions that undermine the faith?

Or the dancing at live concerts behavior you asked about.
It's worship.

They're literally engaging in the "worship circuitry" part of the brain, to work themselves up over their agreed upon idol of worship.
Don't believe me? Try comparing parts for yourself.

I hate tourist so fucking much

>>104215566 (OP)
It's not for you and you don't "get it" either because you don't want to get it, again, because it's just not your thing in the first place. It's not that deep, bro.

>>104217638
>To me that seems a form of psychosis that really should not be encouraged
The "fans" that take things to that extreme absolutely suck. But for all of their whining about being the first to build up the hobby, the cultural tide is turning against them. That's why you see the handful of unicorns who are still crying about Nimi's LLD getting dragged in every one of the fifty spam threads that they post every day. Everyone is sick of their shit.

Taylor Swiftu is my oshi

>>104217260
I ask because comparing your own experiences about something is the best measuring stick when you are unable to understand someone else's position about it. That said, being passionate about something you have put effort towards is different from being invested in someone or something else. Do you not have anything at all that you would get into fisticuffs over with someone else?

>>104217638
Expand further from just musical stuff, do you have no topics of interests you're passionate about?

>>104217736
>Genuine question, why are you even watching vtubers?
Because I'm anonymous here and can answer you fully, sure, I'll answer that.
I'm a full on weirdo who does a lot of weird shit, and rarely does things the normal standard way. I don't intend to, I do what I think makes sense, or is normal, only for others, such as yourself for example, to point out I'm actually not.

I used to watch a ton of vtubers clips, when my mental health was way worse for various reasons. Some you'd probably guess, some you wouldn't. Point is I don't anymore after growing bored of the kind of content. But I've still found myself interested in the psychology of the vtuber fan, for just how absolutely antithetical the lifestyle of someone into any vtuber, is to my own.

I'm not OP, though, I'm the other guy, and I'm pretty sure I mostly figured it out a while ago.
I'm on /vt/ still because of a few dumb reasons
>I can lurk here without getting emotionally invested
>I like looking at the pictures of the girls
>I like some of the weird threads that come up
>Occasionally I've snapped some Anons out of their cult of personality psychosis, so I still sometimes explain myself in the off chance I can get another dude to stop spending 12+$ a month on pretty objectively worthless stuff, too

I know that psycho bitches will frequently come into /vt/ to shit on you guys, but I assure you I'm not coming at it with that approach. At worst I sometimes see someone and think it's a shame they're still so obsessed with something so purely consumptive, but that's about it

>>104217982
>Do you not have anything at all that you would get into fisticuffs over with someone else
No, not really. Even metaphorical fisticuffs, I only get fired up on discussions if I'm talking with one of my two close friends, and even then only for fun. If someone is hostile to stuff I passionately care about, these days, I just write them off and stop talking.
I was at one point like you're saying, but getting heated only ever made any attempts at discussion infinitely worse, so I had to cut that out

>>104217813
>>104217824
>My brothers! The heretic is trying to undermine the faith! Do not believe his lies, the message of our oshi is holy scripture, and you will be rewarded for showing your devotion to the faith

>>104218175
You're here to argue, retard. Go touch grass

>>104215698
>incel
just in case you needed another grim reminder how tourists have colonized the board. this is just twitter but meaner

>>104218142
>HERETIC! HERETIC! HERETIC!
>Thou spread LIES! Our holy mother's love for us is TRUE and HONEST! You will NEVER be able to receive her blessing, or the warmth of the fellowship, with such poisonous rhetoric!
>BEGONE! Cast ye self OUT of our holy halls! Lest my brown fingers continue to post negativity in response to yet another attempt to lead my brothers astray, once more!

>>104218239
Cry more tourist

>>104217638
Just to expand a bit further from >>104217982, comparing vtubers/idols to regular musicians is a bit inaccurate, as the former relies much more on connecting with their fans through various forms of media than the latter. Events that reward your dedication with direct interaction, or activities that stimulate you sensually, are common and give fans a sense of connection to their target of endearment. This is different from normal musicians and celebrities who are basically just characters in a play that you watch over, and that sense of closeness is likely what fuels the fervor of fans to the point of seeming cult-like.

>>104218134
>If someone is hostile to stuff I passionately care about, these days, I just write them off and stop talking.
Very mature and likely the correct response, though hopefully that does mean you understand why the response is usually hostile when that passion is usually challenged for shits and giggles, especially on this board

>>104218302
He literally wants to just argue

>>104218197
>OUT! OUT! HERETIC!
>THY DECEITFUL ATTEMPTS TO CLAIM THOU ART MERELY TESTING OUR FAITH IN THE FACE OF QUESTIONING, ARE BUT LIES. LIES!
>OUR HOLY MOTHER'S LOVE IS ONLY RESERVED FOR THE MOST DEVOUT OF BELIEVERS! LISTEN NOT TO THE HERETICAL TOURIST, MY BROTHERS. DRINK NOT HIS PROMISED WORDS OF HONEY, FOR THE PATH HE PUSHES YOU TOWARDS IS ONE DEVOID OF THE HOLY MOTHER'S LOVE!
>I BESEECH THEE, MY BROTHERS! JOIN ME IN PROVIDING HIM (YOU)S, AND LEVERAGE THE POWER OF OUR COLLECTIVE FAITH, REPLY TO THE HERETIC AND THROUGH OUR STRENGTH IN NUMBERS WE SHALL DRIVE OUT HIS EVIL FROM OUR HALLOWED HALLS
>OUT!
>OUT!
>LEAVE THIS TEMPLE TO THE HOLY MOTHER, AT ONCE!
>OUT, VILE HERETIC! VILE SINNER!
>OUT!

>>104218350
cringe

>>104218345
>>104218350
>Literally predicted the guy would start trying to rope in other people to shaming him

>>104218302
>though hopefully that does mean you understand why the response is usually hostile when that passion is usually challenged for shits and giggles, especially on this board
I actually didn't think of that, but that makes sense.
Especially makes it easy for someone to just hop in and start fucking with someone, too, as what clearly happened while I was away from my computer for a bit, here.

You're right, though, I tend to forget that my reactions to stuff are pretty atypical, so you're right it'd do me some good to consider stuff from the perspective of someone who hasn't questioned what they're doing, as much. Would've helped me with something last night, so I know it's legit something to keep in mind.

>>104218428
I read through his responses and saying shit like you got depressed, that you don't understand cheering for sports and all that shit made him and obvious retard so im not going to wrestle a pig in shit. He's going to end up roping himself or shooting up his local school

>>104218524
>I'm not going to wrestle in pig shit
>Literally spent the past half hour replying to a guy doing obnoxious cult sermon green text baits
>assuming they're even the same guy
>ESL typos

>>104215698
>t. Incel that hate seeing succesful woman.

This board is so fucked man

>>104215839
Do you think the cultlike thing only exists around idol or what? You're acting like you never heard of Taylor Swift, Justin Bieber etc, sounds like you're just a disingenuous faggot, if you genuinely don't understand that some people can be overly passionate on everything then you have real autism, normal people don't behave this way or else you're just one of "culture warrior" and you're just seething that Hololive won the culture war

>>104219174
https://youtu.be/4aOHQ-sMCps

>>104215566 (OP)
It's more of an energy thing. The music doesn't matter as much as the community.

>>104215566 (OP)
You're supposed to be scraping and licking crusty shit and piss drinking without a single deep thought on this board like every other bottomfeeder with a cavernous yellow cooch or microdick

You might not be brainwashed but you're essentially asking a question to sewer rats expecting an answer

>>104215698
Bingo

its managed parasocialism
the idea behind "oshi" is that your support of an idol also somewhat supports yourself. It's like the idea of a "muse", you are inspired by them and enjoy supporting them. The enjoyment of supporting someone, and feeling like they are doing fan service for you, that is "idol". Read the lyrics to the song "Fansa" to understand a more concrete example.

>>104218235
vtubers themselves use the term to refer to their fans behind closed doors

>>104219311
What are they doing

>>104215566 (OP)
It's fun

>>104215566 (OP)
>expecting basement-dwelling incels to seriously answer your questions
It's sex, retard.
it's always about sex.
This is not a hobby, just a place for gooners to gawk at anime girls while pretending that they are better than your usual OnlyFans digital whores.
The modern age is fucked.

/v/ and /tv/ and /co/ and /lit/ exists but sure let's talk at length about how watching vtubers does not quality as a hobby and their fans must explain themselves beofre a tribunal of retards

>>104220865
They are better than your usual e-whore tho, because idol got standard that's why e-thot with anime avatar always seething about it and the "people" that want to destroy idol culture are the same "people" that worship those e-whore

>>104221071
Same difference
You retards are just using this as an excuse to goon at pretty anime girls who pretend to act innocent while wearing slutty clothes that show off their assetts
This si why you will never get that happy family you actually yearn so much for

>>104217982
Sure, there are plenty of things I have a passion for. But again, none of them that would involve obsessing over a person.

>>104220890
VTUBING WILL NEVER BE ART!!!!!! but anyway most of the slop threads here stem from the simple fact that there is hardly any other board that involves gossip to such a degree AND as much as people try to pin this as women behavior, as somebody working with 30-50+ manly married male warehouse workers, everyone is a slut for gossip.
I guess /tv/ qualifies too but big name actors are way more detached from their fans.
Ironically an actual e-celeb board would neuter this one and spark schizos and shitposts not yet seen by man, I can see why the mods never tried it, /pol/ would be shit against that.

>>104218302
So it's all just parasociality. That's all you gotta say to explain it. I've spoken in person and online to musicians I like and online content creators I enjoy, and even take part in fan discords that they show up in from time to time. But I don't decieve myself into believing that makes them and I closer. At closest, they're internet friends, but mostly, they're just creatives that I get to shoot the shit with from time to time.

>>104221213
Parasocial is such a beaten to death word on here.
The moment you root for a character in a book it's parasocial, you don't have too be deep in love for that.
The sportsteam comparison is still my favorite since I never cared about sports much but the moment I got into anime idols representing alot of cornerstones of my interests I finally understood what CAM ON INGERLAND UNIT OF A LAD feels when slamming his drums for the UK team.

>>104215922
>Unc, it’s about the idol journey of your oshi
the whole "idol journey" thing is honestly so lame when it's basically just a corporate-mandated set of train tracks for them to walk across. I'm glad I have an indie oshi now just because watching whatever weird, funny ideas or projects she comes up with come to life is so much more interesting than what basically amounts to them all doing the same thing to sell concert tickets for the company

>>104216062
>>104216163
God forbid people have something/someone they want to passionately cheer for and support

>>104216332
>you can either make her a pornstar or an idol
Hey in Japan they can do both, even at the same time

i don't give a shit about typical idol jpop one iota but seeing your oshi up on stage really is a nice feeling even if you only tune in 5-10 minutes, and its cool that they all have something to work towards and big events and goals and stuff. it makes the general streaming experience much better even if you think the music is dogshit

prior to getting into vtubers i thought the whole idol thing was the lamest thing possibly in human history but when you actually hear these girls talk about it and having a dream to chase its just a whole different thing from watching someone whos only goal is to play video games at you

>>104217350
Listening to music and going to concerts is a hobby, genre doesn't matter. Listening to the music, buying merch, and going to concerts of only one/a few specific band(s)/singer(s) is also a hobby. You ever heard of Swifties? This isn't unique to vtubers or idols.

The Yakuza series conditioned me for this and then it somehow happend

>>10421813
You say this
>If someone is hostile to stuff I passionately care about, these days, I just write them off and stop talking.
then disparage >>104217459 for trying to disengage you in the same way?

>>104221142
And you're unable to draw parallels at all with what other people might feel towards something, despite one being directed towards a human and the other at whatever else?

>>104221213
There's a nuance here that's often lost due to people writing it off as parasociality, since the word both has a negative connotation and flanderized to mean "I wanna date my oshi lol". A lot of idol fans don't feel that way, and neither do they want to be any closer to them than they are now as an idol and a fan (not that they would reject the opportunity). And it's difficult to convey that nuance as well because one side of the discussion often likes to talk from a higher pedestal, which often leaves the other side unheard.

>>104215566 (OP)
You're lucky to not understand it.

>>104221133
>Same difference
Factually wrong, you can say the same to any kind of entertainer if it's just about parasocial and you're talking as if regular musician don't wear slutty clothes on stage, I guarantee you there are a lot of people jacking off to their celebrity crush but that's still different and still better than e-thots and their blind simp because they literally have no standard and only care about cooming they don't care if their whore openly call them incel while demanding their money

>>104215698
fuck off n*m*

>>104220865
imagine lecturing people behind the bar on why smoking is bad for you. that's you, retard. leave

>>104215566 (OP)
Go back to laughing at LOLcows to feel better about your shitty life. This community doesn't seem like your thing if you don't "get it". It's not something that needs to be explained.

>>104217350
>You'd look at them weird if they said their hobby was eating.
this anon doesn't talk to women...

>>104221775
>This community doesn't seem like your thing if you don't "get it"
maybe back in 2020 when everyone was watching holo, but now there's a lot of vtubers where idolshit has become kind of a "eh, who cares" thing

>>104217404
>or actively participate anything
you didn't actively participate in English class, that's for sure
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>104221775
Vtubers are lolcows though, I mean, look at Nijisanji in general and hololive at the end on 2014, or even the Sinder stuff, or vshojo, phase cucknect, wactor...

>>104217673
>so you HAVE to follow me now so you can brag in 5 years
what a miserable narcissistic piece of shit you are holy shit

it amazes me time and time again the stupid dummies I watch almost daily can pull crowds in the ten thousands and then I remember I also like anime and realize the devilishly catchy songs are stuck in my head.
It's that simple, love that shit.

>>104221881
go back to the farms then kill yourself and null, too

>>104215566 (OP)
>obese gathering

>>104221996
Am I wrong ?

>>104222080
being a doxxnigger and a 'farms user automatically makes you wrong
>Verification noŧ required.

>>104222080
Yes. Most of it is far more in the heads of drama obsessed faggots than reality, because they need to paint everything little thing as a big deal because it's how they invest an inordinate amount of their own time.

>>104222137
then these drama obsessed faggots try to shit on our hobby, meanwhile their only hobby in life is gossiping
they're far worse than the "lolcows" they laugh at

>>104222137
>Holocucks will defend kurosanji and wactor if it means defending their lord Yagoo

>>104222314
kill yourself doxxnigger

>>104221881
>hololive at the end on 2014
QRD?

>>104222314
Imagine being an indiefag watching a virtual e-thot, no different from Twitch celebs

>>104222570
I think it's 2024 (obviously not 2014, hololive even didn't exist then) when Chloe and Fauna graduated back to back
Everyone outside holo laughed at them but now holo is still striving, still going on

>>104221775
Wtf is your problem, dude? I never understood the Lolcow thing either. I usually feel bad for the people getting made fun of. I still enjoy vTubers, I just don't get the Idol aspect of it. I very much enjoy liatening to streams where they shoot the shit with chat or do deep dives into topics or play video games, I just don't get the karaoke ones or understand when companies like Hololive seem deadset on making these people Idols. One can enjoy aspects of something while being confused by or not enjoying other aspects of that thing. It isn't all or nothing except to people like you who are batshit.

>>104223017
One of the things that bothers me the most is people's attitude towards 3D. This is mostly a complaint about Nijisanji though.
But they see 3D as this spectacular, amazing, incredible thing that anyone would die to have. They even say, western talents should move to japan so they can do 3D more often, 3D is so special and so important!

But the 3D isn't even that impressive, it looks like some PS2 graphics. They do a couple skits and funny things, maybe they'll even sing a song, but unless it's a major show the production values are often limited. So why does everyone care about it so much?
From what I gather, these fans absolutely *worship* the corporation. Like they are a feudal serf and the corporation is their lord and master. So when someone gets 3D, it's seen as "the corporation approves of you!" and that's the real reason it's such an intense experience that 100's of thousands will watch.

In Hololive it's not the same, instead of little skits they have fully produced shows with camera angles, lighting, staging, prepared music, guests, choreography....etc. It's an actual performance with real value. You still get the fans that worship the corporation and kiss the corporation's feet.

But in Nijisanji, it's so bad that the talents judge "success" not by having a large audience, or becoming popular and successful. To them "success" means the corporation chose them for x,y,z opportunity. If the corporation likes you and picks you for things, that makes you a "success". It reminds me of a cult atmosphere.

>>104223017
stop reacting to retards that clearly don't belong here, lolcows are retards inviting trolls and never learning from it.
That guy probably just thinks anime girls are cringe

>>104223017
>I usually feel bad for the people getting made fun of.
good, that means you aren't a psychopath, unlike the average farms user

>>104217350
>he's never heard of foodies
>he's fully pussywhipped and jewed into "i must always be productive for females" slave mentality
Unfortunate.

>>104223017
>I don't get it
>anons explain a million times
>I just don't get it
>anons explain another million times
>Don't you understand that I just don't get it?
What the fuck answer are you looking for you obnoxious nigger? Whatever it is you're not gonna find it here, you can find braindead faggots to mirror your opinion on reddit or shitter.

>>104223017
Do you want to understand the idol aspect or the music aspect?
If it’s the idol aspect, then I’d say pretty much the entire streaming market is an idol market. Why? Because at its root, the idol market is about making money from personality. It matters much less what game they play; what matters is who they are. Music is just another medium, like streaming, that they use to build and exploit that connection.

>>104215566 (OP)
Vtubers parading as idols is just mockery of the real thing. They're not actual idols, but have managed to gaslight their fans into thinking they are.

>>104223373
the age of 3dpd is over

Nobody remembers how gigantic the news coverage for picrel was, back in 2013. Every single news outlet put it on blast, and for normalfags today, this is still the first and last time they ever heard about "idol culture".

>>104223429
she got off too easy

>>104216062
>Because they are unironically far too invested in something which the outcome means nothing at the end of the day. People build their identities on shit like their favorite sports team
Swapped by virtue signalling on social media, usually by the unemployed.
Ultimately, their deeply held beliefs, though seemingly significant, amount to a complete waste of their lives.

What's at the heart of idols isn't what they're
singing,but who's singing it.
And it's the daily accumulation and process of
building interest and attention in the talent.

Obviously, even if you only listen to the music,
you won't understand it if you're not interested
in the talent.

>>104215566 (OP)
Tourist go home.
You don't belong here.
Tourist go home.

>>104223107
I think the 3D thing can be pretty cool if done right, such as CodeMiko or the handful of VR streamers out there. As someone who can't afford a rig or the space for VR it's really cool to see some of the tech out there and how immersive some VR experiences can be.
Also yes, there seems to be an almost slavish worship of the corporation, which itself is alien to me. Even when I've enjoyed corporate vTubers I often haven't been all that interested in the corpo itself. For whatever reason most of the vTubers I like are indies(SmugAlana, Kirsche, etc) or formerly corpo who have gone indie(Ironmouse, Gura/Saba, Dokibird, etc).
>>104223317
Okay, so it's the parasocial connection thing I guess. That's what everyone's explainations seem to boil down to. Both the IRL idol thing and the vTuber idol thing seem to boil down to parasociality, though at least the IRL idol thing often involves being physically present in a room with that person, maybe shaking their hand at a meet and greet or getting a personalized polaroid or something. Ok. I think I understand the idea now, even if it's just not an aspect I can personally understand.

>>104223505
will I have to agree with the last part to a degree but Kanate woke me up to her with her latest album and solo live, when I was sleeping hard on her, always thinking she is just a cutesy JP of which there are plenty.

>>104215566 (OP)
It's the camaraderie. Being among other people with the same interests. An experience not replicated anywhere else.

To a much lesser degree, it's kinda like those hanging out in echo chambers, like Reddit or Bluesky.
Will never get the full picture there, but they are not looking for that; they just enjoy being with others who have the same views.

>>104223518
>most of the vTubers I like are indies(SmugAlana, Kirsche, etc)

>>104215566 (OP)
Hololive is idols
Everyone else follows hololive's steps
It's literally just that, minor things like promoting fanbase interactions, culture of buying merch and music and dance having universal appeal are pretty tertiary to these reasons

>>104216358
>frog poster

>>104220865
ding ding ding ding ding

good answer carl

There's a lot of semi-useful points made between the shouting in this thread, which probably makes it pretty obvious that the appeal of idol culture is about a thousand different very finicky points of very interesting manipulations of human psychology into one really adorable basket.

While pure "parasocial" nature is part of it, it can be more or less of it depending on the idol in question; Suisei explicitly doesn't want that kind of fan, and yet she fills seats in concert venues.

So that's one part of it, but it's not the only one.

Another part of it is the music, but as you've mentioned a lot of the songs are... neat, but unless you're on a saturated J-Pop diet it's probably not the most appealing thing, so their musical passion can't carry it alone either.

Another angle is how idol culture is in large part a very huge rejection of cynicism. I think it's natural for people to age into being cynicism, but being an idol requires rejecting it. I don't think I can describe the feel good moment that it represents when you see someone who clearly hasn't lost her youthful optimism step up to the big stage and achieve a dream beyond what most people would've thought is possible. To add to this, anyone who's worked their way from small venue to big venue tends to be very grateful for their fans, because they understand that that's the only reason they can perform on a big stage (well, that and getting the attention of a company - I don't think any indie is getting to the big venues that hololive has access to, sorry all of you indie idols).

And this is important, because that gives the fans something else, something that content on its own wouldn't: a sense that they, the fans, made this moment happen. The feeling of seeing a huge event be a huge success, and knowing that, as a viewer, you helped make that success happen, is a incredibly weird but special feeling that I've yet to find any substitute for.

And what makes this all complicated is that Idol culture isn't any of these things. It's ALL of them, at once. It gets a bad rap because of the first part - which generates the bad kind of obsessive fans - but it's appealing to many because of the sheer optimism that the culture represents, and as long as it knows how to cultivate that image it will probably continue being popular.

>>104223773
I don't think the idol culture is coming from the fans. I think the girls themselves want to be idols and the fans are there to help them live out their dream.

>>104223773
>I don't think I can describe the feel good moment that it represents when you see someone who clearly hasn't lost her youthful optimism step up to the big stage
That right there, I posted a few attempts of explaining it but I think you nailed it with that one, conversely it makes me less jaded in general too, to put it questionably blunt, those kids actually give me some energy and I don't mind boosting their businesses in return.

Vtubers are streamers first and foremost. They are here to give me entertainment like watching a TV show, on a consistant basis. If they have other extra things going on, it's fine as long as it doesn't interfere too much with the core, streams. Hololive has been creeping into the territory of it becoming too much about events, particularily events that require you to physically be there. Those are for a small minority, almost minisual for the EN side of things, yet Cover is starting to treat it as a major component, as people guessed would happen with those retarded chaets from the investor meetings last year. Streams are becoming vessal to deliver ads with the occasional big event, and a majority of the talents on the EN side have had their hours streamed crunched over the last few years to make room for more recordings, more travel, more ads on stream, more travel story tellings, more everything that just takes away from daily chill streams. It's not that I hate evetything associated with this stuff, but more that I don't want it to really start eclipsing the thing I'm really here for, casual gaming and some goofy, fun, stupid moments on stream. Hell, I went to a World Tour stop, wore a happi, had a good time, talked with other fans, but that's not the core of what this is for me and a lot of casuals.

>>104224561
>Vtubers are streamers first and foremost.
You're thinking of Nijisanji.

>>104224682
Yeah, because Holo didn't build their audience on that for YEARS.

>>104224561
even your precious fish fuck disagrees with you, phasecuck

>>104223773
>Another angle is how idol culture is in large part a very huge rejection of cynicism.
100%, very based and real post anon

>>104215566 (OP)
>listening to punk
When are you going to grow up anon?

It is called an idol journey for a reason. Wrap your head around what it means to support an idol journey and wanting to see them succeed in that arena vs. just showing up for whichever indie stream that doesn't have any tangible long-term creative potential.

>>104224693
>>104224561
It's so funny that back then when yagoo said "hololive is an idol group similar to akb48" everyone laughed at his face and now hololive is basically a virtual idol group that streams sometimes between dancing lessons, singing lessons, convention appearances, concerts, song recording, sponsor/ads work and trips to japan
Yagoo was always right.

>>104220553
Having a ton of fun vibing.
The underground idol thing is just as much about fan interaction and community as it is about the actual singer

>>104220865
what the fuck are you doing in here rumao

>>104226904
he's like picrel

>>104223107
This is just how most jp entertainment companies work. Not sure why western audience is so allergic to the concept that only the popular ones get resources

>>104215566 (OP)
It's necessary to attract girls to want to be vtubers. It's a fantasy.

>>104226222
I said punk, not bitchboy poppunk for tweens you faggot. Think TSOL, not Simple fucking Plan.

>>104217350
>I don't consider anything that's purely consumption, to be a hobby.
reasonable tbhdesu