Eternal torture stain problem - /x/ (#40663768) [Archived: 481 hours ago]

Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:03:59 AM No.40663768
scar-girl-975540208
scar-girl-975540208
md5: 3782563c339bab4dae3ae24764678f3c🔍
How do theists solve the eternal torture stain problem? It's a version of the problem of evil https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IY2nljwzMbg I don't necessarily agree with everything he says in this video but he does a good job of explaining what the eternal torture stain principle is I'd post text about it but almost no one seems to be talking about it
Replies: >>40663789 >>40663809 >>40663817 >>40663942 >>40664028 >>40664084 >>40664251 >>40664559 >>40668261 >>40672794
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:07:35 AM No.40663780
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJi4qImGeFY
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:11:18 AM No.40663789
>>40663768 (OP)
what's the problem?
Replies: >>40663812
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:17:33 AM No.40663809
>>40663768 (OP)
God is above logic, the solution to this problem is trusting Him and doing our best here.
Replies: >>40663812 >>40671883 >>40671908
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:18:38 AM No.40663812
>>40663789
I'll try to explain it as best as I can but I'm not great at this hence the video links

Torture has occurred. At least one sentient being (me) has been tortured. Assuming solipsism is false which it almost certainly is billions of other humans and or animals have experienced torture including babies who were tortured as babies then killed as babies.
No matter what happens in the future to those babies souls or whatever they will forever have been tortured. There's a stain they can never get rid of
Perfection will never exist. Paradise will never exist. I will never be innocent or perfect because there's people or animals I could have saved from torture but choose not to because of laziness selfishness etc
>>40663809
That seems unlikely. Having to say "God works in mysterious ways" makes it less likely he's real
Replies: >>40663819 >>40663832 >>40663932 >>40667913 >>40668003 >>40668200 >>40668206 >>40668972 >>40671516 >>40671877
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:21:16 AM No.40663817
Innerfire
Innerfire
md5: 3092bc0e6993d9f748d5c54df599280e🔍
>>40663768 (OP)
She has a cute cheek, I really hope she names it "Scar-ia", and makes it clear from the get-go that you'll need to handle her 'other personality'; but is actually a fun situation because you basically end up feeling like you're getting away with dating 2 girls at the same time without any of the 'bad stuff' attached.
Her other cheek is ok too I guess.
>pls don't mention anything if none of the above is remotely true.
>also sorry OP, I didn't watch your vid, not really in that kind of mood atm desu
Replies: >>40663818
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:22:32 AM No.40663818
>>40663817
That's alright but I would recommend you watch it another time well maybe not because it might cause you existential dread and whatnot
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:23:31 AM No.40663819
>>40663812
>That seems unlikely. Having to say "God works in mysterious ways" makes it less likely he's real
Why? Do you know everything that there is to know about science? If there are still simple scientifical mysterires, why do you think that you can understand the creator of everything? You can't, and you never will, whatever solution you may achieve won't be good enough.
Replies: >>40663823
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:24:56 AM No.40663823
>>40663819
I want God to be real but life and existence just seems too evil
Replies: >>40663830
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:29:18 AM No.40663830
>>40663823
I used to think that too, but I was too alienated from reality. There is far more good than there is evil in existence, and God is real, we didn't come out of nowhere, it doesn't make any sense for us to have come out of nowhere, so don't alienate yourself from existence and God being real and good.
Replies: >>40663846 >>40673638
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:29:29 AM No.40663832
>>40663812
So the idea is that because bad things happen everyone is evil and god isn't real?
If so, it's wrong and bad things happen because it's an aspect of the counterforce that exists in opposition to goodness.
From chaos came order.
Replies: >>40663846
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:31:27 AM No.40663846
>>40663830
But what if God is real but is immoral or amoral
>>40663832
Not really the idea
Replies: >>40663871
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:38:11 AM No.40663871
>>40663846
>But what if God is real but is immoral or amoral
This is a sad hypothesis, but it doesn't hold up in light of all the good that thrived and that continue to thrive. We, humans, can still be as immoral or as amoral as we currently are because we are still growing as a species. If we continue to look for good, we will continue to grow more good, as we have. God is good. Existence is good. There are far more good things than evil ones, good wins evil.
Replies: >>40663891
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:42:55 AM No.40663891
>>40663871
These just seem like platitudes
What if rebellion from God is good
Replies: >>40663910
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:47:27 AM No.40663910
>>40663891
If God is good, rebellion from God can't be good. Love your God, yourself and all others as you love yourself.
Replies: >>40663928
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:51:32 AM No.40663928
>>40663910
God oversees children being raped
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:52:24 AM No.40663932
>>40663812
>Perfection will never exist. Paradise will never exist.
Not in this world, for sure. But Revelation promises a new Earth to be created, since the current Earth got cursed in Genesis. The resurrection would give a brand new body to its population, no matter how horribly a person died
Replies: >>40663937
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:54:44 AM No.40663937
>>40663932
Yes but those individuals will have been tortured. They will forever be stained with that torture. That torture can't be undone
Replies: >>40663961 >>40664312
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:55:57 AM No.40663942
>>40663768 (OP)
Are you a Christian that believes in reincarnation?
Replies: >>40663946
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:57:42 AM No.40663946
>>40663942
No I'm agnostic
Replies: >>40663950
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 10:58:47 AM No.40663950
>>40663946
So you believe in a higher power? What kinda sole higher power is it? Yourself or an single entity?
Replies: >>40663976
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:02:05 AM No.40663961
>>40663937
If the bodies are literally remade with no scars and they get to a supernatural paradise, then yes it pretty much gets undone.

>And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more, nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away.
>And he that sat on the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And he said to me: Write, for these words are most faithful and true.
Replies: >>40663973
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:06:54 AM No.40663973
>>40663961
He can never undue that torture
That beings existence will never be perfect
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:08:35 AM No.40663976
>>40663950
I have no idea I just think believing in a all powerful all knowing and all good God contradicts with the world we live in
Replies: >>40663989 >>40664296
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:09:55 AM No.40663981
you sound like you actively want to be sad
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:13:35 AM No.40663989
>>40663976
So you are not agnostic. I think the anon above me is correct. You are just sad and lost looking for straws to grasp.
Replies: >>40663997
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:16:13 AM No.40663997
>>40663989
How does that follow
Replies: >>40664022
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:27:23 AM No.40664022
>>40663997
So what do you think agnosticism is? If you are true agnostic, then why aren't you a hedonist instead of this sad one?
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:32:09 AM No.40664028
>>40663768 (OP)
God is infinitely good by definition so any finite amount of torture becomes zero in comparison because that's what you get when you divide by infinity. You are free to not agree with this definition but it does make sense because evil is destructive and cannot sustain itself, so on an infinite scale, only good can remain.
Replies: >>40664033
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:33:39 AM No.40664033
>>40664028
Maybe
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 11:58:04 AM No.40664084
1697250017610263
1697250017610263
md5: 5063d034c658f54f88cecbfe9fb32aeb🔍
>>40663768 (OP)
I come from a background of asian philosophy, so I can explain it from this view, how the universe works.
In the beginning there was the first being of this universe (there are others too) and that was the Brahma. Through his karma he was very powerful and able to create a world. But his first creations turned out to be bad. It was monsters and demons, and he had to try again and again to make something better. When he got more experienced with creation, the beings he created became more beautiful and positive. He created a big variety of beings, humans and animal and spirits of nature, and in the end gods and angels, as the best he could do. One of these gods, Vishnu, got the job to watch over the world and maintain the cosmic order. Another god, Shiva, was good at fighting and destroying demons. So the world became more orderly.
The beings on Earth, like humans and animals, were born according to their karma. The ones with good karma were strong and beautiful and wise, the ones with bad karma were poor and ugly and with a lot of desire and hate. Depending on their actions in life they created more karma, and when they died and were reborn, this karma manifested as new situations, good and bad.
Some of the wisest people were able to connect to the higher realms, the worlds of gods and angels, and were reborn there. Also some beings of light came to Earth to teach the humans how to reach the realms of light. This was the beginning of religion and spirituaity on Earth.
Some of the wisest spiritual teachers educated the people about the law of karma, and how their karma was holding them down. Especially the bad karma, the trauma, the evil actions, the primitive desires and the hate and anger were obstacles to liberation from pain and suffering. The spiritual solution was to purify all the karma in ones soul, so it could ascend to the highest realms of cosmic harmony and bliss. When a soul manages to get rid of all karma, it will finally be enlightened.
Replies: >>40664511
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 1:21:18 PM No.40664251
>>40663768 (OP)
LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-1ZAVIzMJHM
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 1:40:03 PM No.40664296
>>40663976
>believing in a all powerful all knowing and all good God contradicts with the world we live in
>contradicts
No, it doesn't.
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 1:46:42 PM No.40664312
>>40663937
You don’t have to let a bad dream ruin your whole life. Nothing is permanent in this world, torture included.
Replies: >>40664511
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 3:01:10 PM No.40664511
>>40664084
The Brahma could still be evil
>>40664312
Couldn't one bad dream be enough to make your entire life not perfect even if you lived to one thousand years old and were rich and healthy and everything
Replies: >>40664992
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 3:14:23 PM No.40664559
>>40663768 (OP)
God is a retarded tranny who believes he can reverse the blame for literally any evil he does onto his victims by calling them "jealous".
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 4:06:41 PM No.40664774
there is no problem of evil or a problem of torture atheists are just retarded and incapable of understanding that god is who decides right and wrong and good and bad
Replies: >>40664791 >>40665206
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 4:13:31 PM No.40664791
>>40664774
If god has different morals he follows over humans, why wouldn't there be different morals and religions for different humans (races).
Replies: >>40664848
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 4:28:26 PM No.40664848
>>40664791
Love, from it stems empathy, from it stems the golden rule.
Immoral people's thoughts and actions are not indicative of an immoral god.
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 4:31:37 PM No.40664857
Religion is ancient cope from highly neurotic people that can’t handle imperfection
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 5:28:08 PM No.40664992
>>40664511
Nobody’s life is perfect, at least from our perspective.
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 5:53:16 PM No.40665126
Pain doesn't stain you, being denied a fulfilling life does
Anonymous
7/5/2025, 6:10:05 PM No.40665206
>>40664774
God can't cross is ought gap
Replies: >>40667908
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 4:13:53 AM No.40667908
>>40665206
There is no "ought" for God. What is, is what God wants.
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 4:15:08 AM No.40667913
>>40663812
>There's a stain they can never get rid of
Why can't an omnipotent being get rid of this stain?
Replies: >>40668966
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 4:40:26 AM No.40668003
>>40663812
There's a Schopenhauer quote on this topic.
"It is fundamentally beside the point to argue whether there is more good or evil in the world: for the very existence of evil already decides the matter since it can never be cancelled out by any good that might exist alongside or after it, and cannot therefore be counterbalanced. For even if thousands had lived in happiness and delight, this would never annul the anxiety and tortured death of a single person; and my present well-being does just as little to undo my earlier suffering. If therefore the evil were a hundred times less in the world than is the case, then the mere existence of evil would still be sufficient to ground the truth that we should be sorry rather than glad about the existence of the world."
Replies: >>40668752 >>40668978
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 5:21:14 AM No.40668200
circ problems
circ problems
md5: 1a3550dfc8908a03f60d30c7ede04f5b🔍
>>40663812
>babies who were tortured as babies
Pic related
Replies: >>40668227 >>40668318
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 5:22:17 AM No.40668206
circumcision killed these boys
circumcision killed these boys
md5: c2db6f36eaa8ebc160087816caeb44b3🔍
>>40663812
>then killed as babies.
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 5:25:20 AM No.40668227
>>40668200
The Christian God ordered this to happen and said people must mutilate babies years ago.
He maintains it's optional but not immoral to do it to babies today
Replies: >>40668318 >>40673823
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 5:30:49 AM No.40668261
>>40663768 (OP)
Why is it a problem to begin with? Who ever said that for God to exist, there must not be pain, eternal or otherwise? Maybe God lets you suffer for a brief time and then invites you into eternal bliss; or maybe he tortures you, pleases you, and then tortures you some more. Life isn't fair, and maybe death isn't either.
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 5:40:18 AM No.40668318
godspell
godspell
md5: b2b3ca1ed749d1ec829182304191e1b0🔍
>>40668200
its absolutely heinous

>>40668227
there is no god. god and satan are anthropomorphizations of what is apparently beneficial or not beneficial. this semantic misapprehension is what gives opportunity for so much dialectical manipulation in our reality
Replies: >>40668365
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 5:47:53 AM No.40668365
>>40668318
Why isn't a God that isn't Abrahamic possible
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:07:54 AM No.40668752
>>40668003
>this would never annul the anxiety and tortured death of a single person
Why can't an omnipotent being removed this stain?
Replies: >>40668799
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:18:43 AM No.40668799
>>40668752
Is it possible for even a maximally powerful being to erase what has already happened? It seems like they might be able to change the timeline so that it's "as if" it never happened, but even if all memory of it and evidence of it were erased, on some meta-level, it would still have happened because at one point it did actually happen. Instead, a true omnipotent and omnibenevolent being would prevent it before it happened. But for many it's observably the case that such things were allowed to happen and are actively happening in the present.
Replies: >>40668942 >>40671463
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:45:45 AM No.40668942
>>40668799
>on some meta-level, it would still have happened
Why can't an OMNIPOTENT being change this?
Why did you dishonestly change omnipotent to "maximally potent"?

You changed it because you need there to be a limit on God's ability, or else everything you are saying is wrong.
Replies: >>40669153
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:52:34 AM No.40668966
>>40667913
Because that's a reddit morality problem, like "I god why africa hungry", just using something else like torture
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:54:43 AM No.40668972
>>40663812
If some torture is so big that not even the greatest good in existence can make it's """stain""" go away, then you consider torture to be your god
Come on you don't even remember the pain of your past lives
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:56:18 AM No.40668978
>>40668003
>this would never annul the anxiety and tortured death of a single person
>my present well-being does just as little to undo my earlier suffering
That's just Schopenhauer being a hopeless pessimist, and because he writes well you believe this is some sort of truth
Replies: >>40669165
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 8:37:44 AM No.40669153
>>40668942
My adjusted word choice was intended to be honest rather than dishonest. The issue is that I feel like it would require a violation of logic, and while I know from conversations here that some people think of omnipotence as allowing violations of logic, to me that isn't possible or meaningful no matter what. So that level of "omnipotence" just isn't an option to me even though I know some people do believe it should be. And by saying "maximally powerful" instead of "omnipotent" I felt I was conveying my position on that topic implicitly while leaving it open for questioning in case someone didn't get it, as you did question it.
Replies: >>40673630
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 8:40:29 AM No.40669165
>>40668978
I came across the quote because I already believed it, not the other way around. I haven't read Schopenhauer outside of sporadic quotes I've come across.
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:07:13 PM No.40671463
>>40668799
God can't undo torture
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:16:53 PM No.40671516
>>40663812
>what’s a memory wipe
>what’s a receptor rebooting
There, now they don’t remember nor they can even COMPREHEND down to cellular level what torture (of any type, I mean to me constipation is very much torture) even is
As for your “innocent” I see this is another Jewish retardedness as singer “drowning child philosophy”
Both of these mentality are always concerned with making people brain as polluted as possible, so they won’t ever feel content, just like white guilt.
So no, I don’t even entertain these silly thoughts, nor should anyone sane.
Atheists and their silly “philosphies”
Replies: >>40671539
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:21:18 PM No.40671539
>>40671516
Time travel into the past just means you experience the torture again in reverse.
Yes Peter Singer is right and I do personally donate to effective altruist charities

If I am currently being tortured right now you can't tell me while I'm being tortured that in the future or past or whatever this torture I'm experiencing now will never have happened. It is happening and it did happen.
Replies: >>40671567
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:26:15 PM No.40671567
>>40671539
Again
All around silliness and mental pollution
If you are white you, as an individual involved in effective altruism are almost always suffering from white guilt and only care about our groups(source? Effective altruism on Reddit has zero posts about Texas flood, or Hawaii fire, and only one about Cali fire, but back to back about africa and India)
And as for your “torture”
When your receptors are rebooted and your internal system is flushed, pain killers produced naturally by your body would feel EXACTLY the same way it might have felt the first time you were tortured. Every receptors is freshed up, so pain feel the same.
Add that with a memory wipe
How can you even know that it’s not your first time?
Replies: >>40671592
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:29:48 PM No.40671592
>>40671567
It doesn't matter if you forget it or not it still happened to you.

The reason they aren't talking about the Texas flood or Hawaii fire isn't because the victims are white it's because it's not effective to help them.
Replies: >>40671634 >>40671634
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:36:04 PM No.40671634
>>40671592
Nope not about white
It’s about being part of west
How is it ok to help people from drought in Africa KNOWING it just cause them to breed more and extent the “suffering” but not to people who lost their lives?
Again very silly ideas, came out of Jews who themselves practice ZERO altruism but want people to be polluted and bugged down by silly ideas
>>40671592
Nope it doesn’t really
Is getting kicked in the balls real hard in dream constitute a torture?
Your rebooted receptors means you, not your brain EVER in a CELLULAR LEVEL ever experience any event pleasure or pain
Again, I just killed this philosophy for the ompth time, but I be glad to continue if you wanna do a roundabout again
Replies: >>40671664
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:40:37 PM No.40671664
>>40671634
>How is it ok... people who lost their lives?

Saving lives doesn't lead to overpopulation it actually helps to prevent it.

this is generally supported by research and demographic data. The relationship between child mortality and fertility rates follows a well-established pattern called the "demographic transition."

When child mortality rates are high, families tend to have more children as a form of insurance - they need to account for the likelihood that some children won't survive to adulthood. Parents also rely on children for economic support and care in old age, so having more children increases the odds that some will survive to provide that support.

As child mortality decreases (through interventions like malaria prevention, vaccination programs, improved nutrition, etc.), families typically respond by having fewer children. This happens because:

- Parents gain confidence that their children will survive
- The economic calculus changes - it becomes more cost-effective to invest more resources in fewer children
- This often coincides with improved education and economic opportunities, especially for women

This demographic transition has been observed across many countries and time periods. Countries that have successfully reduced child mortality have generally seen fertility rates decline, often quite dramatically. For example, South Korea went from high mortality/high fertility in the 1960s to low mortality/low fertility today.

So organizations like the Against Malaria Foundation aren't just saving lives in the immediate term - they're likely contributing to a demographic transition that reduces population growth rates over time. The evidence suggests that reducing child mortality is actually one of the most effective ways to eventually reduce fertility rates and slow population growth.

>Is getting kicked in the balls real hard in dream constitute a torture?

Yes.
Replies: >>40671725
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:46:26 PM No.40671725
>>40671664
How is a “dream” a torture?
Because receptors produce pain sensation and then your body release morphines? Right?
If that’s the case, and pain and torture is related to hormones and receptors, then their reset would remove that “stain” or whatever too
You stepped in this yourself buddy. By saying, “dream pain is real” you basically said “all pain and torture is just hormones and receptors” so their reset is the solution to this silly philosophy
Replies: >>40671765
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:52:48 PM No.40671765
>>40671725
Pain is a subjective experience.
Torture is torture because it feels bad
Replies: >>40671794
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 7:55:47 PM No.40671794
>>40671765
How you distinguish them?
I say torture is subjective too
Someone slapping in face over and over again is a torture to me, but to some slut it might even make her cum super hard
Again, all is fixed by a receptor reset so I don’t get the whole issue
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 8:05:13 PM No.40671877
religion vs bayesianism
religion vs bayesianism
md5: ca39f8f1a39ac20b2b52e2fab9c65a82🔍
>>40663812
>That seems unlikely. Having to say "God works in mysterious ways" makes it less likely he's real
Pic related
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 8:06:15 PM No.40671883
your meds schizo
your meds schizo
md5: 4e6eafd461848ea822dc3c12f21e710a🔍
>>40663809
>logic is wrong and the voices in my head are right
MEDS
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 8:09:21 PM No.40671908
>>40663809
>God doesn't use logic
Oh, so God is a woman. Explains a lot.
Anonymous
7/6/2025, 10:58:11 PM No.40672794
>>40663768 (OP)
idk, by not being a Christcuck or an Abrahamic religion cuck
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 1:34:59 AM No.40673630
>>40669153
>it would require a violation of logic,
Why cant an omnipotent being do this?
> to me that isn't possible or meaningful no matter what.
>you need there to be a limit on God's ability, or else everything you are saying is wrong.
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 1:37:04 AM No.40673638
>>40663830
>There is far more good than there is evil in existence
I don't fault you for deceiving yourself. People attempt to be good with each other, but that doesn't compare with the absolute nightmare of transhumanistic anti-human slavery encroaching everywhere and no one being able to do anything about it.
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 2:24:02 AM No.40673823
bible on circumcision
bible on circumcision
md5: ef5979eaaa029bc7862fcbebc0329846🔍
>>40668227
False

https://circumcisioninbible.wordpress.com/
Replies: >>40675909
Anonymous
7/7/2025, 9:46:52 AM No.40675909
>>40673823
He's saying it's optional not that it's immoral