I'm thinking of becoming a freemason.

I was invited to them, but I didn't show up.
Seems lame anyway

what do you hope to get out of it, anon?|
I've thought about it -- but the average age at the local lodge can't be less than 75

>>40666244 (OP)
parallel boy scouts with goy scouts

>>40666285
>but the average age at the local lodge can't be less than 75
wtf no way this is true

tfw dirty 32 yr old hippy deep into the mysteries
tfw only old boomers and old hesidic jews would know what im talking about/into

>>40666244 (OP)
>I'm thinking of becoming a freemason.
Lube your anus.

>>40666244 (OP)
"Join not the lodge." -- ancient wisdom saying

You probably won't get high in the ranks. They don't let simple normies in the higher echelons. You gotta be born from a rich or aristocratic family

>>40666244 (OP)
You should board the space ship!

>>40666244 (OP)
Okay, Mason here. Also a 32nd Degree member of the Scottish Rite.
Going to be upfront with you. You ain't going to get the secret mysteries of the universe. You will get roped into a lot of volunteer work. You're not going to get invited to orgies. You will get invitations to monthly pancake breakfasts. You won't get earthly riches. You will make quite a few friends and find yourself interesting conversations and, hopefully, find yourself a better man as a result of all of it, which are all riches of a different kind.
It all boils down to you.

I can't imagine wanting to hang around boomers and boomer sympathizers

>>40666447
Most Mason lodges are civil servants, like the police, fire, etc. I had a bit of trouble about 4 years ago and they were trustworthy, and they didn't screw me over! I asked them for some things and they received a few things in return! So, they get major Kudos!!

>>40668402
NTA
>It's all a metaphor bro
Thanks for being so upfront and honest, but why would anyone want to be friends with bullshitters like that?
Or what is freemasonry about? Some ppl who said they are freemasons have seem to be interest in the occult, but according to you it's all bullshit. So what is the point even?
Why not just join any other social community? Is freemasonry like a church community for non-christians?

>>40668582
Well, we're not civil servants like fire or police... those are agencies paid for by tax dollars.
But despite the nasty conspiracy theories and constant bashing we do try to be good members of the community and help out wherever and however we can. The lessons that a Mason learns about how he ought to treat a brother Mason are supposed to be extended to society as a whole - it's the lesson of the Compass and it's in the very first degree.

>>40668632
> we do try to be good members of the community and help out wherever and however we can.
Would a freemason want to be a good member of society even if the society is a bad one?
Or where do you get your "universal objective" morals from?

>>40668628
I didn't say it's all metaphor. And it doesn't pretend to teach occultism.
There's a lot of symbolism that people *mistake* for being Masonic. As for actual Masonic symbolism, it's related to morality, not occultism. Working tools represent moral lessons. The Eye represents God, who watches all we do.
It's not bullshit. It's just that so many non-Masons have an idea of Masonry that doesn't reflect reality. It's about service and that's what Masonry's lessons reflect.
>Why not just join any other social community? Is freemasonry like a church community for non-christians?
Someone should only join the Freemasons if they have a positive opinion of the institution and decide to join of their own free will. We don't recruit, so I'm not going to spell it out for you; you either see it or you don't.
It's not a church, it's a fraternity of men who seek to be better men. Not better as it wealthier or better connected, but rather better in regards to their personal characters.

>>40668632
So basically a 4chan janitor, but only in real life and with less executive authority?

>>40668652
>Would a freemason want to be a good member of society even if the society is a bad one?
I mean being good to your neighbors and local community.
In bad societies, Freemasonry has usually embraced secrecy. Hence the reason we keep our modes of recognition secret.
In decent societies, we operate in the open. As evidenced by the fact that you can look up our lodges in your local phone book.
>Or where do you get your "universal objective" morals from?
You're looking at Freemasonry as though it's some grand ancient organization handed down from on high.
It's just a group of men, operating by moral philosophies devised by men. Believe in God. Be good to one another. Etc. It's not handing down anything you can't learn on your own.

>>40668665
Not even.
We don't do it for free - we pay to do it and we don't have authority over jack shit.
But that isn't the point.

you can join mine. there are thousands of freemason guilds. just start your own if you cant commute.

>>40668657
You said
>You will make quite a few friends and find yourself interesting conversations and, hopefully, find yourself a better man as a result of all of it, which are all riches of a different kind.
Maybe interesting conversation or open debate can be fulfilling or inspiring and thus be seen as valuable.
But calling those things riches I think is a misleading metaphor.
My estimate is that 70-99 percent of people would betray their closest friends for 10 000 000 $ without a bat of an eye.
So calling both of these things "riches" as if they got the same value is kinda misleading in my opinion. hence I call it a metaphor or bullshit
What does being a better man even mean? According to some dogmatic morals your leaders came up with? how is that different from being those leaders servant, trying to do anything to please them?

Working tools as moral lessons sounds like a lot like a glorified arbitary moral system.
how can you consider yourself a critical thinker a person who thinks for themselves if you blindly follow some arbitiary logic someone else set up for you with fancy symbols?
I assume your predeccesor organisation had your hand in bringing catholic supremacy in europe by promoting enlighentment, which is a good thing, but I am not sure why that seemingly contradicts the existence of a supposed rigid moral framework you follow? Or where are my misconceptions here?

> I'm not going to spell it out for you; you either see it or you don't.
Why not just spell it out for you? Afraid I may disagree? What logical reason could there possibly be not to spell it out other than create intrigue to fish for commitment?
>be better men.
better according to what moral framework?

>>40668680
>I mean being good
even the most inhuman actions can be described as being "good" in certain ideologies or moral frameworks.
so what is the masonic moral framework?

>Believe in God.
Which one? what is the masonic concept of God?

>>40666244 (OP)
how do you signup anyway?

>>40668685
So basically some friendly humble dudes with a strong sense of morality who want to take their morals seriously. So maybe a club of practical utilitarians without strict metaphysical confessions

>>40668746
*bringing down catholic supremacy in europe

>>40666244 (OP)
It's likely a scam... how much personal info did you tell the person that messaged you?

>>40668632
I know what a civil servant is! The Masons I met worked as civil servants, and, yes, the Masons are a private group without gov't ties! I'm not a fucking moron...

Join operative freemasons, introductory ritual is to give up on building yourself, your rite is the promise to build heaven before yourself

one person in each corner of the room, 3 in center for the ritual, center door carpet to the center ritualists.

Remember they say you have to believe in God, but never say Which God.

Theres some chants involved, each corner picks up differences in sibilance meaning each cornered will pick up different intelligence.

Start getting into building chambers, a chamber of reflection and another with snakes in the walls.

>>40666244 (OP)
Read the Bible or just have a relationship with God and he will give you situations in life that will make you a better man if you have courage. Relying on other men (selling your soul for the world) like a woman will make you gay and ruin the fun.

>>40669112
In other words, “the medium is the message.”

>>40668750
You don't just sign up. First you need to get in contact with your local lodge. As mentioned earlier, you can find them in the phone book. Another way to find it is to look up the Grand Lodge of where you live, they usually have a lodge directory.
Anyways, reach out to the secretary of your local lodge. Lodges often have events that are open to the public - picnics, board game nights, etc. The secretary will invite you to show up to one of those. There, you can meet people, hang out, ask questions, and, if you're interested, ask for a petition to join (you'll need a couple of signatures but if you make a good impression that's easy enough).
Your petition is presented at the next meeting and the Worshipful Master of the lodge (it's just the title of the person in charge of the lodge that year - officer positions rotate yearly) will form a committee to investigate you. That investigation involves a background check to make sure you don't have a criminal history as well as an interview to feel you out, let you ask more questions, and determine whether you'd be a good fit.
After the investigation, the committee presents its findings to the lodge, who then vote on whether to accept you as a member. In many places this needs to be a unanimous vote. If accepted, someone will reach out to tell you when you can show up for your initiation. If not accepted, you can try applying again in another year.

>>40669037
Sorry, I had been drinking a bit last night and misread your comment.
I meant no offense.

>>40668746
First person you responded to.
I think you're making too much of Freemasonry, far more of it than it actually is.
It's not a religion. It's not the big thing that conspiracy theorists try to portray it as. There are no "leaders" and you're reading a lot of rigidity into the thing that isn't there.
It's just an old club that goes back a few centuries. It arose out of Stone workers guilds, who, given that they built cathedrals and lived in a fairly religious society, considered their lives in relationship to the tools with which they worked - like 24-unit rulers representing the divisions of the day or builder's squares representing virtue because they align things at 90 degrees, which represented a sort of perfection. These were operative masons. In later centuries, non-stone workers of a philosophical bent also joined and became "speculative masons", who didn't actually build anything but liked the lessons around the tools.
There's not much more to it than that. We're not the secret forces behind reality or the governments you see around you. We're not enforcing laws or keeping tabs on anyone. Just a group of guys who meet at a lodge once or twice a month who bond over a human speculative system of morality based around stonemason imagery.
If it doesn't sound like it's for you, no one's trying to convince you to join. But what people don't understand is that you're always free to inquire about it - everyone thinks everything about Masonry is secretive when really we're pretty open.
Secret societies don't openly advertise where they meet. We do.

>>40668759
Even that's overstating things, really.
It's more a collection of guys with an interest in this Freemasonry thing who joined because they had a positive opinion of the institution. That's it. It's not hard to join. I explained it here (>>40670243). There's a variety of guys who join, many good but bad apples slip in sometimes just like any organization.
People build this into something way bigger than it is. Yes, there's interesting buildings and history and strange symbols and garments and rituals and whatnot. And that stuff all has meanings but none of it is actually the point.
I learned more about Masonry volunteering to wash dishes after the lodge ate so someone else wouldn't do it because everyone was having a nice time than I did in any ritual. That's Masonry and if you get what I'm saying there then it might be a good fit.

If they weren't all gay and satanic I think being a Freemason would be fun..

>>40666244 (OP)
I thought about it too, but...
1. I'm not into children, I mean not in that disgusting way.
2. I think one can't decide to join a secret society, the secret society decides.

>>40670298
I once tried to join the freemasons.
Bad luck, that night was one of their gay orgy nights...
I think about it every time I sit.

>>40669112
Masons don't sell their souls.
But this is solid advice. Freemasons strive to be better people in their own lives but you absolutely don't need to be a Freemason to do that. No Mason would ever say that you would.
I keep repeating this but too many build this all up as something it's not. Speaking as a Mason, I will straight up tell you that, if you had to choose between the two, you're better off joining a church than a lodge.

>>40670273
>There are no "leaders" and you're reading a lot of rigidity into the thing that isn't there.
No leaders but over 30 ranks. I don't know that doesn't add up well.
Why have 30 ranks and titles like master, if you are such an egalitarian collective without leaders, Why not just meet in sunday best clothes at a round table with tea, coffee and cake? or pancakes or whatever?
Why costumes ranks and rituals? Doesn't add up.
Also in my experience with manual labor, there is always a boss who tells you what to do, how to do it, when to do it with authority. I imagine ancient stone builders to be the same, so again doesn't add up your claim of "no leaders".

Your comments about the tools, were interesting to read.


>human speculative system
Like what? Imagining what an utilitarian utopia could look like? Like a think tank?

>We're not the secret forces behind reality or the governments you see around you.
If you can say this. representing a unity in that, of all masons world wide, does that not imply a central authority which keeps all lodges in check.
A central authority which could theoretically be bribed or compromised in other ways?

>no one's trying to convince you to join
Well maybe not, or maybe it's subtle.
I find that fancy symbolism, titles and ranks unnecessary in the context you have given me, which is a little suspect to me.

But I am very glad you are so open in answering questions and explaining things, but that doesn't mean I trust all your claims, especially not if think things do not add up.

>>40670291
>none of it is actually the point.
Then why is it there in the first place? Why sacrifice so much time and effort for the superfluous?
Why not use that time effort and money to help the poor and needy?

> if you get what I'm saying
I get it can feel fulfilling. I felt similar in similar situations, but I think such experiences are far removed from the reality of the world.
experience who only exist in privileged isolated oasis of wealth

>>40670426
I'll offer that if things aren't quite adding up then I'm not really explaining so well lol. This is kind of a limited medium, frankly.
Non Masons confuse Degrees for ranks. They're not ranks. Freemasonry proper is what is known as the Blue Lodge. There are three degrees there - Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason. The first two are sort of probationary - everyone who goes through them and sticks around will become a Master Mason. It goes back to the guild days (remember, Freemasonry arose out of the stone guilds).
There is no "higher" level than Master Mason. Here's an example where working tool symbolism comes into play - a Level is a tool for laying flat surfaces. All Master Masons meet "On The Level" - as equals, regardless of their stations in life. No other Mason is my "boss" in Masonry.
Sure, we have lodge officers. Officers manage the affairs of the lodge. It's not hard to become an officer - I was one shortly after I joined. And we have Grand Lodge officers as well - Grand Lodges oversee the operations of the lodges in an area. There is no higher body than the Grand Lodge - Grand Lodges recognize one another based on adherence to certain "Landmarks" that we've sworn to uphold (you can look them up). A Grand Lodge that no longer recognizes all of those is no longer recognized by the other lodges and is considered "clandestine ".
As for the "higher degrees", they are part of what are known as appendant bodies. Those exist alongside the Blue Lodge but are not above it and explore the meaning of what it is to be a Master Mason. The highest "ranking" Mason in an area is the Most Worshipful Master of the Grand Lodge and you don't even have to belong to one of those bodies to achieve that.
It also might be pertinent to explain at this point that there are different groups that call themselves "Freemasonry." I'm speaking in regards to the most common you'll find throughout the world.

>>40670426
>Like what? Imagining what an utilitarian utopia could look like? Like a think tank
Not even.
Regular Freemasonry (the most common in the world - I'm not speaking of Continental or clandestine Freemasonry, which is quite different and what most conspiracy theorists latch onto because they do engage in this shit, sadly) is uninvolved in politics or religion. I mean, yes, individual Masons and even groups of Masons involve themselves in this stuff but it's not an official Mason thing.
It's more of a philosophical society. The speculation is in regards to philosophy and morality and, yes, the symbols of Freemasonry. We have meanings behind the symbols but the full significance of them and the lessons derived are really up to the individual Masons. There are wrong interpretations, of course, but this stuff isn't like religious dogma that's handed down or holds religious significance. It's all very personal and ultimately a reflection of yourself.

>>40670426
I should also add that it's forbidden for a Regular Mason to be involved in Continental Masonry or to belong to a clandestine lodge.
Anyone who is found doing so is brought up on charges and expelled as it's in direct violation of their oaths.

>>40670426
>Well maybe not, or maybe it's subtle.
>I find that fancy symbolism, titles and ranks unnecessary in the context you have given me, which is a little suspect to me.
>But I am very glad you are so open in answering questions and explaining things, but that doesn't mean I trust all your claims, especially not if think things do not add up.
I get that. What that boils down to is that Masons take Masonry pretty seriously. The symbols, titles, and "ranks" are part of it. But they denote certain achievements, not status in hierarchy if that makes sense. As an imperfect analogy - think of the military. There is no higher honor than the Medal of Honor. But earning the Medal of Honor doesn't make you higher than a general or even higher than your lieutenant if you're a non-commissioned officer.

>Why not use that time effort and money to help the poor and needy?
Again, this is a club. That can be said about any club. The purpose of Freemasonry isn't charity. It's just that Freemasons do a lot of charity because that's an extension of what Freemasonry teaches - giving back to society around us.

It isn't for everyone. Like I said, people build this up to be something it's not. It's not the Hidden School of the mysteries passed down from time immemorial. It's a fraternity that arose out of human stone guilds formed around a human philosophy that speculated on the relationship of working tools to morality, much of which was formed on human interpretations of the Bible at one point (although one does not need to be a Christian to become a Mason). It's a very human organization, made up of human beings who can be both good and bad - we don't have ways of judging people apart from their actions and, when people act in an unmasonic manner, they are called out on it. And when they are in violation of their oaths (the only real rules - if someone doesn't like the oaths, which they swore before God, they're absolutely free to leave), they are expelled.

i just had a thought about the karmic washing machine
i dont really have anywhere to post this so ill post it here for another ma son
when youre hot removing the clothes of thought is a great way to show off
but when youre ugly removing your clothes of thought is a humiliation ritual

so make sure youre working out your soul kids for returning to eden requires nudity

>>40670638
>when youre hot removing the clothes of thought is a great way to show off
>but when youre ugly removing your clothes of thought is a humiliation ritual
I like the first part but I'm not sure I agree with the second part.
Removing your clothes is more a shedding of the day and all the dirt and grime that comes with it. It's not a humiliation, it's a purification of sorts because, hopefully, the next step is to hop into the bath.

>>40670486
Your explanations are perfectly clear. I just didn't have enough information and too much misconceptions.

Thanks for giving these clarifying explanation.
I didn't even know there was such a big difference between continental and regular freemasonry.
Now I know.

>>40670506
Sure symbols can mean different things to different people. And anyone could use any clubs symbol to attach any meaning to it.

>It's all very personal and ultimately a reflection of yourself.
If you think like this, why not make your own personal symbols?
I can understand using a determined set of symbols for social cohesion, yes, but what you are suggesting sounds more like a very intimate relationship with these symbols.
But maybe it's part of masonry to have a very intimate connection with the group or lodge, expressed in using the same images/symbols.

>>40670524
Yes, I asked chatgpt about the difference between continental and regular masonry, and it told me a lot, about your landmarks too.

>>40670603
>Masons take Masonry pretty seriously. The symbols, titles, and "ranks" are part of it
Yes it sounds like a tribal and aesthetic thing.
Yes denoting achievements makes sense, I know honorary titles for achievements from other organizations. Like Merit Badges for Boy Scouts.

So you are saying charity is just one aspect of giving back to society?

>It isn't for everyone
Sure, you have to have something to spare, to give something back. And you can't live in poverty if you want to afford the membership fee and fancy cloths.

Also a lazy NEETs like me would probably be a disgrace to any organization or club that fancy.

Anyway thank you for answering my questions in such depth and clarity, even though my tone was confrontational. You seem like a good guy. I appreciate it and our open discussion.

>>40670679
if you dont get clean before your bath you just sit in the much of it

>>40670638
What about when you're in a cult that abuses and torments the world, and claims immunity from consequence for its global manipulation because "free will" and "stakes on the table by choice and consent?"
Pretty sure God said all men will be judged not merely by their works but by the measure of their faith and their sacrifice.
I'm sorry, but your rotary club won't save your selfish and cruel heart.

>>40671192
Symbols in masonry are very direct. One of the most important is the two-ball Cain, an allusion to Tubal-cain, cains son, considered to be the first architect, making things out of metal. The son of the first murderer. That, along with Hiram Abiff, is your messianic Triune in masonry. Those are only 2, so there's one missing. Maybe you can identify who that would be.

>>40670524
Oh no, not the oaths!

>>40670506
>It's more of a philosophical society. The speculation is in regards to philosophy and morality and, yes, the symbols of Freemasonry. We have meanings behind the symbols but the full significance of them and the lessons derived are really up to the individual Masons. There are wrong interpretations, of course, but this stuff isn't like religious dogma that's handed down or holds religious significance. It's all very personal and ultimately a reflection of yourself.
Straight up lies for those caught in the esoteric rungs. Utter lies

>>40671290
ive already been through the fire of atziluth im good homey
The Holy Fire Ceremony:

This is an ancient Easter tradition in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem where a fire is said to miraculously appear.
Orthodox Christians believe it's a manifestation of the Holy Spirit and a symbol of the resurrected Christ.
The ceremony takes place on Great Saturday, the day before Orthodox Easter.

2. Jesus's Words About Fire in Luke 12:49:

Jesus states, "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49).

This fire is often interpreted as a symbol of his message, the passion he wants to ignite in people, and the transformation he brings.
It can also represent the Holy Spirit and the purifying power of God.

3. Other Fire Imagery in the Bible:

The burning bush in the story of Moses is another example of God appearing as fire.

Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles, is described as tongues of fire.
Revelation 1:14 describes Jesus's eyes as "like a flame of fire".
These instances connect fire with God's presence, power, and judgment.


But who can endure the day of his coming? And who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap.
that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ

“two-thirds will be struck down and perish;
yet one-third will be left in it.
9
This third I will put into the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on my name
and I will answer them;
I will say, ‘They are my people,’
and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’”

>>40671192
>If you think like this, why not make your own personal symbols?
Well, I mean, you absolutely can but that in itself doesn't necessarily make them "Masonic" per se. Maybe if you create something that feels relevant to the craft and lots other Masons start using it too then it becomes Masonic -- that's how the symbolism evolved in the first place I'd guess.
But Masonry isn't the end-all be-all of symbolism in the first place. There's plenty of esoteric symbolism out there there isn't Masonic even though people mistakenly think it is.

>Yes it sounds like a tribal and aesthetic thing.
>Yes denoting achievements makes sense, I know honorary titles for achievements from other organizations. Like Merit Badges for Boy Scouts.
That's a great way to look at it, very much in the same vein.
It's sort of like being a Boy Scout except instead of going into the woods you do community stuff. It's more an excuse for camaraderie with guys you might not otherwise meet in life than anything else.

>So you are saying charity is just one aspect of giving back to society?
Well, sure. Another way to give back is to be an upright citizen. Or helping someone alongside the road. Another working tool is the Compass. A compass is used for drawing a circle. It "circumscribes" us and teaches us to act within due bounds toward all mankind, but more especially a Brother Mason. The point of that isn't that Brother Masons are supposed to get "better" treatment - it's that the way we behave towards one another in lodge should teach us how to better behave towards everyone around us. If I'm willing to go out of my way to help Jack who I sit next to and crack jokes with in lodge, why not the little old lady down the street as well?

> Sure, you have to have something to spare, to give something back. And you can't live in poverty if you want to afford the membership fee and fancy cloths.

That's not what I meant. I just mean this stuff doesn't resonate with everyone. And that's okay.

>>40668746
not a freemason but my dad was one:
freemasons consider any belief in a god valid, as long as that god can fit into the concept of a "great architect of the universe"

>>40671315
Interesting. Did you skip this one though?

"But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil."

Isaiah 5:20

>>40671327
Diluted religion is irreligion
A diluted God isn't God

>>40671318
Yeah it's just like the Boy Scouts. I remember in my first den meeting when our troop leader unveiled the Compass and explained how it was an allegory for sexual intercourse, with the Generative Force in between. It was the same day he explained why our egyptian aprons cover our wands, as another allusion to the Compass. Right after that, he explained how Cains line was actually the heroic one, then we pretended to kill one of our members and rebirthed him, he became Hiram Abiff.
But this is all grown men having fun. It's like the boy scouts really

>>40671192
>Also a lazy NEETs like me would probably be a disgrace to any organization or club that fancy.

Kek, it ain't that fancy. I joined when I was 26. Our lodge was kind of a dump because the old timers sold off our good building and bought a small place away from town because they thought it would keep expenses down. Then some asshole treasurer embezzled the funds (yes, he was kicked out) and it was sort of less-than-impressive.
Still, I had great memories there, met good guys. I wasn't really working when I joined but I got a decent job after (no, not through Masonic connections... but I mean, I wasn't making bank or anything... dues tend to range between under a hundred to a few hundred a year depending on where you live). Being able to pay your dues is an important part though. Still, even when I couldn't afford it I was granted "relief" and just asked to pay the Grand Lodge portion, which was like $65 for the year. The point is that you don't have to be rich to be a Mason.

Where do you live? I can point you toward the Grand Lodge in your area. You could reach out to your local lodge. They'd answer your questions better than I can.

Be a Cowan.

>u guise... im gay
>i want to be gayer
That's what you sound like.

>>40671327
The point behind the belief in God has nothing to do with the nature of God or religion.
It's that the thing that makes a Mason a Mason is the oath he swears, and that oath has to be sworn before God.
Everyone knows about the "gruesome penalties" connected to the oaths. But those are symbolic. They are symbolic of the pain one ought to feel in one's heart for breaking an oath sworn before God.
The candidates are informed after the oath of this nature; the actual penalty is expulsion.
Lodges are opened with a non-denominational prayer because no great endeavor ought to be set upon without first invoking God's blessing, but that's the extent of religion in it.

>>40671329
Have you tried that one when you enter a court of law?
Jesus was talking about general behavior. Don't swear oaths for simple things, let your word be your bond.
He wasn't forbidding all oath taking.

>>40671377
No oath to men can be made before God. These two things defy one another.

>>40671387
>He wasn't forbidding all oath taking
>do not take an oath at all

Word.

>>40671395
There is nothing unbiblical of swearing oaths, and the Bible is full of men swearing oaths before God.
https://www.crossway.org/articles/did-jesus-forbid-us-from-taking-oaths-matthew-5/

>>40671377
this is just what i remember from what my dad told me about it, he said belief in a great architect of the universe was a requirement to join

>>40671329
this is about swearing to either heaven or earth like i swear to god or i swear on my children not a formal oath like will you take this bride till death do you part i do or will you tell the truth nothing but the truth i will

>>40671413
You can't become a Mason in Regular Freemasonry without a belief in God. This is correct.
Continental Freemasonry (which is not recognized by Regular Freemasonry) does not require this. It's part of why we don't recognize them, among other things. (Any Regular Mason who is found to be a member of a Continental lodge is expelled for violating their oath not to join a clandestine lodge)

>>40671426
Really? Then why doesn't it say that in plain English?

That's good anon, remember that all the people who claim that freemasons worship the devil are liar.
Our one and only god is Jahbulon, it has nothing to do with the devil.

>>40671432
The Bible wasn't written in English. It was written in a different culture at a different time in a different language and has to be understood in context.
The context in which Jesus was speaking was private speech, not public.

>>40671441
Always such convenient answers, at the ready for the profane when they ask questions.

>>40671439
Masons don't worship a god called Jahbulon.
That was a pass word used by Royal Arch Masons (part of the York Rite) a century ago and isn't even used in all places.
It's a compound of 3 Hebrew terms:
>יהּ (Yah, I AM, which indicates eternal existence),
>בּעל (b'el, owner, husband, lord) and
> און (on, strength); pronouncing three aspects or qualities of Deity, namely Eternal Existence, Ownership, and Omnipotence and equating to "The Eternal God - Master - Almighty".

The Royal Order of the Jesters is the most Godly and Pious organization I've ever laid eyes on. Veritable saints, nay, angels sent from Heaven!

>>40671448
Masons don't answer your questions?
>oh, you guys operate in secrecy! You're so evil!
Masons do answer your questions?
>oh, you guys make shit up, always having answers at the ready! You're so evil!
You beg the question. Must be nice to be able to have your cake and eat it too - you can't be wrong when no answer or lack of an answer will suffice.

>>40671459
I've already your books. I don't need your answers. I just laugh at the dissonance, and question if you yourself actually believe them. Then again, the lower orders exist for a reason

>>40671458
Masons aren't perfect. There are bad eggs who get in, just like any human organization. There are plenty of Masons who think they should be expelled.
https://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2008/03/trouble-with-jesters.html

>>40671467
And which order do you belong to exactly?
I've read a lot of the shit you've read. It's bullshit. But I always find it funny that those of you outside the fraternity think you understand it better than those of us who have been part of it for years.

>>40671432
its not an english book wrote in modern times so you need some intuition as it says do not swear an oath as you dont know the future you cant turn a hair black or white so simple say yes or no
there are more simplistic versions of the bible for this reason but really you want to be reading it in greek or Aramaic depending on the chapters aka books and or latin which was the next mystical language they use instead of greek or hebrew the prior mystical languages of the time
its also why only the priest knew the language of the books as the priest was supposed to be oyur middle man to god so oyu dont get confused allong the way

this is why the rabbi heals the wound of the unveiled head with his mouth

>>40671469
And yet they haven't been, and these actions have been known for a century, at least. Perhaps you, yourself, a witting dupe of a hierarchy that LIES to you. What a thought, eh?

>>40671481
And this hierarchy - is in the room with us now?

>>40671476
I read your books. Pike...I read the books you read. No more no less.

There are many organizations where the people in them, don't understand their purpose. This is what hierarchy and compartmentalization are for, it's their purpose. The puppets dance, the puppetmaster does as he truly wilts.

>>40671483
Ah, mockery! I accept your concession, but who will save your soul?

>>40671488
you know crowley was kicked out of the golden dawn masonry for being a pompous ass

>>40671501
Don't care and isn't relevant

>>40671488
Morals and Dogma isn't the "Masonic Bible", regardless of how much some people on the outside might want it to be.
It's just one man's philosophical interpretation of the Scottish Rite rituals. No one else is bound to those interpretations. Most of Freemasonry is subjective. We chat about meanings of shit because that's what speculative masons do but it doesn't mean we necessarily agree with other masons' takes.
And there are some major quotes of Pikes (the ones referring to Lucifer being God) which are proven forgeries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax

>>40671501
Golden Dawn wasn't Masonry.
It was its own thing. It had members who were Masons and borrowed some symbolism but it was quite separate and not even an appendant organization.

>>40671508
youre quoting him a reject of masonry
aka some one who wishes they where a mason but got kicked out

>>40671519
splinter cell is the term theres lots of them

>>40671526
There are clandestine lodges but it wasn't even that.
A Mason cannot be a member of a clandestine lodge but a Mason could be a member of an organization like Golden Dawn or other non-Masonic fraternities.

>>40671509
Firstly, no. That's not a forgery. That's in Morals & Dogma, verbatim. Did someone neglect their studies brother? Tsk tsk.

Secondly, he was using it to make a symbolic point. I dont hinge the things I say on some allegory Pike invoked in his book.
The rest of the book I found far more, illuminating.

It's been excellent chatting, brothers. Just remember this one thing: the man who makes claim to being human, is forever of the good. The man who makes claim to being of the good, of the elect, has already enslaved himself to evil.

>>40671531
>Firstly, no. That's not a forgery. That's in Morals & Dogma, verbatim. Did someone neglect their studies brother? Tsk tsk.
I mean, I literally provided a link showing it was an admitted forgery by Leo Taxil.

The rest of your comment is just you larping about knowing things you don't because you have never been a Mason.

>>40671496
Mockery is given where mockery is due; I'll worry about my own soul and you ought to worry about you.

>>40671529
i may be using the wrong jargon as its been years but a splinter cell is a group thats apart of a larger organization that splits off from said organization and does there own thing with the same mission goal
its a tactic terrorist organizations use to avoid espionage and data collection
also if the main frame gets taken over by an entity with other interests then the main goal
these cells can become cancerous taking over the mainframe again either through destroying it and rebuilding it under a new name or by taking it over again through the inside

>>40671565
Yeah, I'm just saying that, as a Mason and someone who has explored other esoteric organizations, I can straight up say Golden Dawn isn't a splinter cell or Masonic in the slightest.
But yeah, Crowley was kicked out. He wasn't even admitted into Regular Masonry in the first place and had to join a clandestine lodge.

>>40671565
oddly enough OTO supposedly uses this tactic to reach the higher ranks where one has to make there own religion/cult
but that would still be apart of the mainframe not truly disconnecting

>>40666244 (OP)
Y r u gae

>>40671543
Deception is the Holy Ghost isn't it, and no better deception than by way of obfuscating association. I don't care about the Taxil quote, I was referencing this one:

"The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. Lucifer, the Light-bearer ! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls ? Doubt it not ! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired."

Is in any copy of Morals & Dogma which can be purchased in any bookstore that sells it today. Here is another from the same book, which makes things very interesting:


For the Initiates, this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may serve for evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan ; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend.

>>40671572
i mean it is even the UGLE is a splinter cell itself of the greater egyptian mysteries

>>40671579
I've studied the OTO but have never been a member. It's really more of a Thelemic fraternity from what I understand, while the actual magickal order is A∴A∴ (which I also can't speak to)

>>40671543
>The rest of your comment is just you larping about knowing things you don't because you have never been a Mason.

So Tubal-Cain has no relevance in Masonry, you don't perform a ceremony where the three ruffians kill new initiates posing as Hiram Abiff, who are then rebirthed after making the journey?

True, what do I know

>>40671587
>Deception is the Holy Ghost isn't it, and no better deception than by way of obfuscating association
holy shit i have no idea what the conversation youre in is about and wont read any further i just read this and wanted to point out its irony like fuck me lol straigt up obfuscating association by twisting the holy spirit with deception

>>40671618
Ironic indeed, Brother.

>>40671600
every religion is just a frat in the inner gardens

>>40671587
That is a valid quote.
A couple things though. First, "Lucifer" as "The Devil" isn't actually in the Bible. There are two references to "Lucifer" - one in the Old Testament comparing a king to a fallen star, and the other in Revelation referring to... Jesus Christ himself.
>“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
>Revelations 22:16

Read the quote. Pike is lamenting the fact that such a title could be applied to the Spirit of Darkness, and then goes on to say that the Light of the devil "blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls." He speaks of Lucifer's Light as a play on words since Lucifer means "Light-Bearer/Morning Star".
I mean, read the first sentence. "The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer." He's literally saying that the pomps and works of Lucifer are contrary to the Sublime Faith that's supposed to be reflected by the 19th Degree.

>>40671635
I am well aware of all of that. This, I found particularly striking:

"For the Initiates, this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may serve for evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan ; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend."

What does that mean? In a cult that deifies the Generative Force and covers the wand, it means quite a lot.

>>40671606
I didn't say you don't know some things. Just that you don't know what you don't know and certainly don't know a lot that you think you know.
Yes, Masonry has some symbolic enactments. But these are morality tales, not history or of any actual religious significance. Again, Freemasonry developed out of stone builder guilds who speculated on the nature of their craft while building cathedrals and while living in a heavily-religious period. Christian themes touch on a lot of what forms Freemasonry but that shouldn't mean Freemasonry itself is meant to be religion.
You are making more out of this than it's meant to be.

>>40671662
I'm sure I am, Brother. I'm just a wayward Cowan.

It was good when it was Pan, but the Christians-- the evil church! -- rendered it Lucifer. To "your God," this was the sin.

>>40671649
give this thread a read let me know what you think
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40658715
<3 shabtai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabaoth_(Gnosticism)

>>40671693
Ah, and now we show our face. That's all i wanted! Ciao

>>40671649
If you are aware of it, why do you cite it as a smear, knowing that the meaning is in fact quite benign?

>"For the Initiates, this is not a Person, but a Force, created for good, but which may serve for evil. It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God Pan ; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend."

This is where we get into Pike's personal philosophy, which obviously strays from traditional Christian understanding of things. Again, Pike isn't the pope of Freemasonry but a man with his own views that any Mason is free to agree or disagree with.
Who created Lucifer exactly? Did that Creator create anything that wasn't intended for good? Yet, as humans, we are certainly capable of perverting the purposes of good things given by our Creator towards evil. Pike is comparing Free Will to the devil, and Free Will can indeed be used for good or evil.

>>40671681
>I'm sure I am, Brother. I'm just a wayward Cowan.
Does this condescension become the conversation we are having?
I'm showing you respect. You're showing me none.

>It was good when it was Pan, but the Christians-- the evil church! -- rendered it Lucifer. To "your God," this was the sin.
This is a complete misrepresentation of what Pike was getting at. If you read what he actually said you'd see that.

>>40671707
you dont even know what you see
im just a l ONE l Y god head
https://youtu.be/o_6ioe2PQIA

>>40671733
One chases food and wine through seeking, and falls. The other chases wisdom and discipline through fighting, effort, and becomes King -- God -- ruling over both his own Bestial form -- and those who have become beasts.

Earlier it was written:

>remember this one thing: the man who makes claim to being human, is forever of the good. The man who makes claim to being of the good, of the elect, has already enslaved himself to evil.

>>40671768
good thing im evil
devil dog ;)

>>40668402
Wounds wonderful. Actually, I would probably be MORE interested in that than some schizophrenic esotheric mysteries of the universe.
/x/ aside, I find what the masonic lodges seem to actually be about much more important than some sensantional movie material and shadow government plots people like to assume

>>40671793
they said waters waters but it was sex
https://youtu.be/qeMFqkcPYcg

>>40671817
Assuming you're a man of lawful age who believes in God, you should consider reaching out to your local lodge in that case. They're not hard to find, especially if you find the Grand Lodge of where you reside online (they usually have a Lodge Locator).

>>40671793
Jesus destroyed you once, and will again.

>>40671854
im the alef bet
do you even know what that means whore of rome

>>40671858
Alpha Beta?
Weren't they the bad guys in Revenge of the Nerds?

>>40671863
yes anon thats what thats about
also werent the nerds rapey perverts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mYBSayCsH0&list=RDo_6ioe2PQIA&index=5

>>40671858
No man is the Alpha. God is the Alpha. You are Rome incarnate

>>40671870
>also werent the nerds rapey perverts
You're damn right they were.

I would become a freemason if I got invited...

>>40671871
anon only red part one couldnt be bothered to read part 2

>>40671898
Masons don't recruit or invite... the requirements are that you have to be a man, of lawful age (over 18 in most places), and believe in God.
Continental Masonry drops the requirements that someone be male or believe in God but Regular Masons don't recognize them. But they also don't recruit as far as I'm aware.
Both happily welcome inquirers though.

i wonder how many brother ma sons know its about the simple desert farmer life one who sleeps with goats and sheep ;)
mr dabar
gomer oz dabar