Thread 40727988

>try to meditate
>let go of thinking
>quiet empty mind
>focus on breathing
>wtf why is it so shallow and weak
>should be breathing deeper
>start thinking and judging myself
>start breathing manually
>meditation ruined

Zen no mind/mind without mind
A) it fixes that
B) it makes your normal state meditative meaning you don't gotta meditate to have a still mind.

>>40727988 (OP)
Maybe try new meditation?
I suggest Ba Duan Jin

>>40727988 (OP)
Dont try to let go of thinking, the mind is very sly. Develop a better relationship with thinking and emotions. If you try to fight anything you’re going to struggle. Giving space for the emotions and stories you tell yourself in that moment can really help in my personal experience. If possible draw attention back to your focus object. Overall just witness.

No such thing as a bad meditation. Trust the process it gets better. Just witness.

>>40727988 (OP)
>try
This is the problem. Let yourself meditate.

>>40727988 (OP)
you're training

and blank mindfulness is worthless, it's a state of true judgement not passivity

guide and direct character and intent/will at all times.
like handling a knife or playing with fire...

>>40727988 (OP)
>try to meditate
Why? What is your goal? There might be a better way to meditate to achieve it.
Have you been tricked by dogmatists into thinking meditation means only one method, for only one goal?

>>40728157
amitabha the bloviator everyone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G4kCi_ldr8&list=RD3G4kCi_ldr8&start_radio=1

>>40728097
ba duan jin is a chikung, not a meditation

>>40728037
This is the actual sauce OP

>>40727988 (OP)
just learn how to breathe properly at first, dont worry about anything else while in the beginning. a quiet mind comes from mastering the breath
this is so, because sense activity creates the imbalances that are reconciled by the spontaneous creation of thoughts
just train a lot until you can make all your breaths like 30 seconds long

>you are not you
>you are you in your mind, observing your mind
>you sit still
>you breathe
>you let the whole show happen
>you leave when you feel ready

>>40727988 (OP)
breath through your lower dantian

>>40727988 (OP)
That doesn't ruin it. Experience it.

>>40727988 (OP)
If you're not highly experienced with meditation, it's going to take time to set it up each time, you can't just drop it because there's some minor interference. Stop thinking about how you should breath or if your thoughts should disappear or not, all that is counterproductive. Focus on your awareness and guide it to the object of meditation, let it sit there as you observe the object, be it breathing or anything else. Anything that bothers you after that you acknowledge, let it pass through you and return to tending the object of meditation where your awareness is resting. Countless things will bother you at the beginning, you just gotta keep acknowledging them and redirecting your awareness to the object of meditation.

Never reject, hang onto distractions or try to keep them at bay, that is an endless endeavor and it will distract your awareness. You gotta integrate any distraction by acknowledging it and letting it blend with everything else in the edge of your awareness. Awareness gently placed on the object of meditation.

Anyone can meditate if they understand this, which isn't too complicated at all.

>>40727988 (OP)
I recommend focussing on the feeling in your big toe on each foot. Much less room for judgement but watch… your mind will wander fast! when you realise that, just focus on your big toes again.

>>40727988 (OP)
>Should be
Kek

If you really "let go of thinking" then you don't think things like "why is this so shallow and weak".

You ignore thoughts completely.
You focus on your breathing, and yes you make it deeper and slower and more relaxed through micro-adjustments, so yes you do breath manually to some extent but not totally, the breath will be executed whenever you control it or not, you just try to micro-regulate it now and then.

>>40727988 (OP)
>Heart beat
>Breath in fully, stomach to chest
>Heart beats
>Hold top for a heart beat or two
>Heart beat
>Slowly exhale
You are suppose to breath manually, learn to play a drum

>>40727988 (OP)
>anon fumbles to get on bike
>wobbles ridiculously feet flailing
>chains not even on the thing
>tries standing in dirt dragging upturned bike back on forth on the ground
>holds bike up and runs around making brrrrrmm sound
>drops bike altogether
>"...riding bikes is ruined"

the PATH of mediation is not entirely about the still mind (which is the fruit), but largely it's a process of ever deepening humility, grace, and refinement in the face of seeing clearly (however difficult) by walking it.

how many times do you think you'll have to look down and take another conscious step ON the path instead of away from it?

how long does it take from sprouting a seed before one can harvest the universes' most delicious peaches? with what kind of care would you handle the sprout and sapling? who would you seek advice from if you wanted abundant and extra tasty peaches?

Can someone explain what the purpose of breathwork actually is? And please spare me the cowardly non-answer that it's just a tool meant to help a bunch of different things.

>>40728898
I can do that. but it means manually breathing, it's not observing the breath but managing it directly. is that the right way? or are you saying that my body starts doing this on its own? or are you saying I should manually control my breath until an altered state kicks in?

because if I let my body breathe on its own, my breath is silent, slow and shallow.

>>40727988 (OP)
People complicate meditation you just need to relax, breathe through your whole body (use guided meditations to understand the idea of this) and then stop thinking about stupid shit, which includes thinking about thinking, then when you kind of hit that flow state just let your imagination run wild.

>>40727988 (OP)
It's a bit like jumping into water, you might start panic a little at first, but if you relax you find that you're float just fine.
You can also focus on the between breaths and float in the stillness and then gently breath when you feel the need.

>>40735069
>Can someone explain what the purpose of breathwork actually is? And please spare me the cowardly non-answer that it's just a tool meant to help a bunch of different things.
it is a fact that the senses rouse energy potentials by the mere fact of their sensing
these contribute towards an energy remainder from resolving conscious to subconscious
random thoughts are effectively a blowoff valve to balance energy potentials in the brain
by restraining the senses, these potentials arent raised, energies arent used
eventually habit energy can support a random thought free mind if trained well enough
this is why sometimes in the old stuff its written in a manner of chaining a monkey to a post until it learns to behave
by refining the breath, the mind is quieted, energy builds up over time to drive longer breaths
which enable deeper states
the very foundation of enlightenment is contained here
paying attention is cultivating awareness
that's the sati part of anapanasati
so the word means to train breath & awareness together
the awareness part is huge for later on

>>40735283
>I can do that. but it means manually breathing, it's not observing the breath but managing it directly. is that the right way?
correct, the best method to train anapanasati is by managing the breath directly
this is why I teach that info exercise of getting in the bath and letting the water against the eardrums, to get very loud feedback on how coarse the breath truly is
what you basically do is manage it to extract every last efficiency
and once the body has a well programmed muscle memory,
then it doesnt really need to be quite so actively managed, less and less the better the muscle memory is

>>40735761
The AI summary of all that shit you said boils-down to controlling breath helps cultivate awareness, which is key to enlightenment.

And why do I want enlightenment, exactly?

>>40735828
>why do I want enlightenment, exactly?
this is a unique perspective, but I'll give it to you anyway
you get a trip around the universe spanning a stupendous amount of lifetimes
master nan huaijin indicated in his enlightenment series that one needs to somehow get around the end of this journey, the way to do it is the enlightenment process
for if this torus is indeed the shape of the universe, it would make sense that you kinda need to avoid that giant trash compactor that is the perpetually ongoing big bang in the middle
so you more or less need to be able to surpass the tether otherwise you get recycled, which doesnt sound like it preserves your soul's identity

>>40735069
The other anon said it wonderfully here >>40735761 but let me say it in my own words from my own experience: The most basic thing one should do in order to meditate is to learn to relax his muscles and remove all tension from them, this should improve the depth, slowness and duration of the breathing but you should then focus on the diaphragm and take it even a step further, it takes time to learn breathing like this so give it time.

Relaxing the muscles and breathing indeed reduces the number of stray thoughts and once you become good at it you can then meditate many times more efficiently.

What's the goal of meditation? To cope from the fact that world will remain shit, will keep getting shittier, while actively expanding avenues of getting possessed by demon, akin to sleep paralysis?

>>40735878
>this is a unique perspective, but I'll give it to you anyway
I didn't exactly grow-up in a buddhist, hindu, or whatever, household. Most of the time it just seems like a new age buzzword that doesn't have any real meaning that just seems like feeling good all the time.

>you get a trip around the universe spanning a stupendous amount of lifetimes
I don't believe in that.

>you kinda need to avoid that giant trash compactor that is the perpetually ongoing big bang in the middle
Nah, I'm fine with total oblivion. Or not. What can it do for me in this lifetime?

>>40735917
Thanks, but I didn't ask about meditation, I was asking about breath-work.

>>40735956
>getting possessed by demon, akin to sleep paralysis?
lol

>>40735987
I think you should just be content with your TV and internet, maybe in a future lifetime you will have the conditions to be a little more mature

>>40736044
See, it's a win-win scenario. I don't believe that shit, so if I'm right I get a cozy life right up until I don't exist. But if that reincarnation crap is true I can simply try again the next time, or not, because I won't remember this conversation.

>>40735773
thank you for your guidance. anything else I should be aware of moving forward? I use in ear plugs to hear my breathing better, so I won't use the bathtub. should my breath be silent or can I slightly tighten my airways to draw longer breaths?

>>40736376
>use in ear plugs to hear my breathing better, so I won't use the bathtub.
earplugs are good, but if one has access to a bathtub it is highly recommended, things are that much louder to provide for signal analysis.
>should my breath be silent or can I slightly tighten my airways to draw longer breaths?
the breath should be silent. one of the old tests was a feather in front of your nose, you cant let it move
tightening the airways or engaging them at all is a recipe for more air to be drawn across the olfactory nerves
its good to lengthen the breaths, but there's only a certain amount they can be reasonable lengthened without triggering the body's reactions

>>40735987
>getting possessed by demon, akin to sleep paralysis?
>lol
I don't know if nightmares / sleep paralysis happens as a reaction to body's rising temperature while sleeping (too much bed clothing, room has high temp) or if the body heat becomes higher due to the stuff happening in dream. But basically I've learned to keep a table light on in my room always, and I always sleep with a night mask now. The table light helps a little bit, leaves less room for "imagination" to interpret everything as bad, meaning it probably needs higher "corruption" state before it'll start seeing shit that's not there, while if it's completely dark then it's easier for even a sane person to start seeing weird stuff when waking from sleep, so the table lamp elevates the needed "threshold" for shit to appear. The eye mask gives you immunity because you have the 3-5 seconds to calm down when waking up, to set back into your body (since your consciousness was somewhere else during sleep), and so unless things are really bad, you'll be able to wake up even from bad dream or quasi-sleep paralysis with eyemask.

I've had some encounters where I've felt a "presence" of something, something's come to feed on my fear, but I've fed it lust instead, so I've had some semi-success with spirit sex or whatever it's called, not proud of it, but It proves to me that these things exist, there are parasitical entities that feed off of people's negative emotions, and I've also noticed people get fed false memories through dreams. Worst case scenarios are someone might feed you memory during some childhood dream, and since it happened long time ago, you think "could it be.." and it's negative, so of course it leaves a mark on you, but you have to try find conviction in yourself to state "that probably can't be right". I'm not big into psychology / psyche discovery shit, it's just secular ways to try defend wide populace from learning that demons do exist, so it's pilpul/red herring made up by ((them)

And of course, combining table light and eye mask is good, but sleeping on your side is the thing that gives most immunity. While some jumpscares could still be possible (table light and eye mask help make that impossible), the act of sleeping on your side makes sleep paralysis itself impossible, the threshold rises by 66% or something. I don't think I've ever gotten completely paralysed, but I've gotten feeling of "if I stay in this position for too long I might get", and that's been even with eyemask on + table light. So you need to combine all 3 techniques if you want to get best defense. The dreams itself might still be weird and there may be signs of someone entering your dream or tampering going (don't know how to combat/defend against fake dreams that attempt to manipulate), but at least you wont ever get sleep paralysis.

>>40735956
>while actively expanding avenues of getting possessed by demon, akin to sleep paralysis?
thanks for the stupid lies, pastor

>>40737692
Do point out where is the lie?

>>40737763
>meditation is opening yourself up to demons
its a meme as old as the council of nicea

>>40735956
based meditation is demonic as fuck, I used to meditate and even got into states absorption before achieving 1st jhana but I started to experience dissolution of self, my humanity was leaving, that's when i knew that shit was from satan!

>>40737859
>based meditation is demonic as fuck, I used to meditate and even got into states absorption before achieving 1st jhana but I started to experience dissolution of self, my humanity was leaving, that's when i knew that shit was from satan!
If meditation were as clear cut as it seems to be, something that can cure soul and dna or whatever new agers say this month, then TPTB wouldn't be shilling this shit everywhere with yoga and other shit. This meditation shit is clearly some kind of gateway drug to other artificial esp skills (such as remote viewing) that traps your consciousness on some artificial tunnels or places that are maintained with tech. I feel they want to train people for stuff and they need pipelines that lead them to those places (since they can't do mk ultra or monarch, on everyone, that's only done by some families)

>>40735956
Wow look at this guy.
He thinks we should cower in fear and hope that superman will come down one day and save everyone even after it's been thousands of years now.
Even though superman himself you can be a hero too. Didn't say how though which is the most important part.

>>40735987
>Most of the time it just seems like a new age buzzword that doesn't have any real meaning that just seems like feeling good all the time.
This is ironic because it seems like 99% of the time the Eastern stuff is more practical and grounded compared to Western. They actually explain things and the practices are doable and there is something of a history to them. Mantras are easy to understand and can be immediately done and refined.
Meanwhile in the West you have to draw squiggly lines that nobody knows where they came from, and nobody explains anything but LE GODS and LE DEMONS. Nobody knows what their doing and the mechanisms behind the system are basically buzzword salad.
Unless it's astrology and divination which actually have theory and mechanics.

it doesn't matter what meditation technique you do as long as you pick one that feels okay to you and stick to it consistently every single day

>>40738158
>I dont know shit about meditation but I'll type out what my perception of some larps are
gay

>>40728902
>>you leave when you feel ready
This last point is why I resist fully letting go during meditation, cause (me mind thinks) I might end up meditating outside of time while my body is there for hours or days, not have the luxury of living my myself undisturbed so the fight or flight instinct kicks in before relaxing too deeply.

>>40727988 (OP)
>"try meditate"
>do zazen for 12 minutes or more, no problem
>feel way better after it, wonder why I'm not doing it more often
I don't get why it's so difficult for other people. Is my brain not fried enough yet?

>>40741746
>12 minutes
Do you have a timer/alarm or just know when you are done?

>>40741763
Yes, I use a timer

>>40739830
Ok but what is the basis of meditation? What do all types of meditations have in common? So I can know that I am indeed meditating?

>>40742236
Meditation is deliberate focus of awareness.
That's it.
Dont be taken in by dogmatists that say meditation means only one method, for only one goal.

>>40741640
>cause (me mind thinks) I might end up meditating outside of time while my body is there for hours or days
when you can make the spiritual light arise, the perception of time isnt there
but its not easy to keep the spark for that long

>>40741746
>12 minutes or more
kek

>>40742292
>Dont be taken in by dogmatists that say meditation means only one method, for only one goal.
there's many ways to cultivate yang
but not so many to cultivate yin

>>40742236
>Ok but what is the basis of meditation? What do all types of meditations have in common? So I can know that I am indeed meditating?
all meditations require focused awareness
but not all applications of focused awareness are meditation
thinking or contemplating is the opposite of meditation

>>40727988 (OP)
you will never be without thinking. keep wasting your time

>>40741802
>timer
soulless slop meditation

>>40742660
nah this is actually possible, it just requires pretty rigorous training
nothing too special, either
anapanasati brought very deeply is all that's required
I know because I did it
but of course it is a matter of conditioning
so if the conditioning isnt kept up, random thoughts again arise

>>40727988 (OP)
your meditation got ruined because you let your mind wander from acceptance to desire. the shallow breathing happened because you let your posture slip. readjust and start again.

>>40742660
>retard sounds retarded
>still misses the point completely
to think you could have stayed quiet

How do I avoid falling asleep. I can only really meditate lying down but I fall asleep every time.

>>40743078
>I can only really meditate lying down but I fall asleep every time.
this is pretty much the entire reason why beginners are told to sit up
its just easier to fall asleep if you're laying down and harder if you're sitting up properly

>>40742443
Didn't Sadhguru and plenty of others go into mult-day long meditations spontaneously?

>>40743241
I try, but when sitting up I always feel discomfort/tension from the body and then go lie down. Been into some deep states while meditating lying down, but there are those moments when I catch myself shifting and then instinctively jolt out of it abruptly. Can't tell if that's feeling the brink of flaling asleep or a light awakening, feels like both kinda.

>>40743078
come out of your mediation for a bit to remain awake and go back into it.

>>40742459
What ways cultivate yang and what ways cultivate ying? Should the 2 be balanced?