Thread 40831945

What is the spiritual nature of pain? (mainly physical pain, not emotional pain)
What is the role of pain in the spiritual path?
I see 2 main views:
>pain is beneficial (alchemically)
i.e. pain purges impurity (weakness/stress/wandering mind, even the ego itself)
an example of this is the pain involved in stretching and meditative sitting (which can end up feeling like you're sitting in a fire and 10 minutes is an eternity).
>Gurdjieff: One needs fire. Without fire, there will never be anything. This fire is suffering, voluntary suffering, without which it is impossible to create anything.

>pain is unnecessary
(i.e. spiritual practice doesn't need to be painful)
for example Neville Goddard saying
>*Do not let anyone tell you that you must struggle and suffer. You need not struggle for the realization of your desire.*

So is the path to: stretch so hard you want to die, sit in yogic postures until you pass out with pain, maybe do other exercises to the limits...
using that "fire" ?
or should you relax, ignore special postures, get comfy in a chair or lying in bed, and just use your imagination..., adjusting when needed?
i.e. hardcore vs comfy paths.

>>40831945 (OP)
It is to grow, anon. But pain is a signal you are doing something wrong and you must change your behavior. Pain is what you experience when you have grown too big for your shell so you either must shed it (the least painful) or you must exist within its limitations.

But all in all, no, pain is a byproduct, it is NOT enlightenment and yet it is expected that on the path to enlightenment you SHALL experience it.

P.S: Nietzche is a low IQ loser.

t. Jungian Enthusiast

Let me be more exact here:

On the path to enlightenment, everything you do MUST be “proper”, not too much and not too little. Not too comfy as to fall asleep and not too painful as to tear your concentration away.

This can be applied to everything, btw. “Everything in its proper amount”.

I hope that clears it up for ya.

>>40831945 (OP)
the desire to avoid pain can induce intelligence.
otherwise said; it is literally possible to beat the stupid out of someone. who knew?

>>40831945 (OP)
Pain is not a necessity, but simply a natural byproduct of a physical universe.

Imagine the world as a king of video game, but you have no clue what character to be or what to play. So you pick this server seed that maximizes its independence and feels like an autonomous thing you're not a part of. It gives you something to learn from and grow from, a way of creating a reflection of yourself.

Because its autonomous and mechanical bad stuff can happen. it might not need to exactly be to you but it can be witnessed and understood. Its all a possible potential outcome in all the possibilities, and you wanted to be in a world of as many possibilities for maximum growth.

You do not NEED pain to grow or to enjoy life. It is unnecessary. It just happens to be here in this world. And it won't be in my next one that's for sure.

thanks all,
but the specific issue is one most meditators go through: sitting through burning pain, that is so intense you want to die, submitting to it while also not allowing yourself to get up, where you burn in the crucible/fire and then come out the other side with freedom, relief, peace.
It's a metaphorical facing of life and its struggles through the microcosm of excruciating leg pain.
This is the "hardcore" path. The eastern meditative traditions tend to involve this kind of masochistic ridiculously high willpower.

The cult equivalent would be existing members abusing (whipping, beating, graping) the initiate, so they can be strengthened/purified and reborn. The mysteries etc...
Also various ascetic things like Christian self flagellation, Indian stylites etc.
keywords: ordeal, crucible, fire, calcination

any views on this hardcore path?
why are you on it/not on it?

>>40832138
sounds like you like to just be comfy and focus on mental stuff... (imagination/thought/meditation...)
what are your practices?

It's this idea that only imaginal/mental stuff matters (keep the body comfortable and forget about it)
vs sitting through pain having value/importance
(e.g. Goenka retreats saying to sit through "gross" (painful) sensations)

>>40834881
I guess its like a mental muscle, and it up to you if you want to master it. A way of strengthening your soul by being able to tolerate horrible physical pain.

I guess I don't want it because I just don't like it. Its so unpleasant to be in pain that I'd rather just erase it instead of learn endure it. When you write it this way it sounds kind of pathetic though.

bump

>>40831945 (OP)
op here,
I've chosen the comfy path. no need for pain.
Ppl get their dream lives and everything they ever wanted without being unnecessarily hardcore, just by changing their mindset.
Ppl affirm and then shift or go to void state in a couple of days.

the hardcore meditative path works, but the imaginal path is faster and easier.

Playing with elements...
Mass...
Gas...
Liq...
Plasma...
Pain (red wavy lines)...
Relief (blue wavy lines)...
Pain could be seen as a equaliser...
To the sum of a need...
As in you need to get out of a...
Situation...
Or suffer further unpleasantness...
Always a good day for pain...
Mantra when you next...
Time stub ya toe...

>>40832119
Imagine you get the main thing mostly right but then shit on Nietzsche, the guy who's reviving the Gods in his philosophy.

>>40831945 (OP)
pain is diagnostic feedback
suffering is negative emotional value being attributed to pain

>>40832138
It feels like trying to run upon the razors edge when everyone else has already jumped down to one side or the other
and they are all begging you to get down and jump, that it is insane not to pick a side and jump down...
But you just keep running anyway, maybe not even sure why, you are just a fucking runner, and fuck razer blades, fuck sides, fuck jumping down, fuck it just run