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Thread 40854850

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Anonymous No.40854850 [Report] >>40854884 >>40856137 >>40856472 >>40858389
Islam speaks of seven earths and subtle consciousnesses that bear witness. Did you miss that?
Some hadiths reported by the Prophet Muhammad evoke realities that go far beyond the earthly framework attributed to popular Islam.

>"Whoever unjustly usurps a stretch of land will be chained to the seven earths on the Day of Judgment."
Reported by Al-Bukhari, Hadith No. 2454
Also reported by Muslim, Hadith No. 1610

>Seven earths? Layers? Dimensions? Parallel worlds?

An even stranger hadith speaks of the Day of Judgment: at that time, objects, body parts, clothing, and even the walls themselves will speak.

They will testify for or against you.

>"Today, We will seal their mouths, and their hands will speak to Us, and their legs will bear witness to what they have done." (Quran 36:65, and reinforced by several hadiths)

Why would these inanimate elements be capable of testifying? Do they have a latent consciousness, inaccessible to our human perception?
Is the world full of silent and invisible witnesses surrounding us?

The craziest thing is that these ideas were already circulating in the time of Muhammad. He doesn't explain them. He presents them as facts, as something everyone already knows or perceives without understanding.

Therein lies the confusion.

Muslims practice a religion that contains profound, almost cosmic, esoteric elements, but which they do not master.

It is as if they have been given knowledge that they themselves do not understand, but which they respect because they consider it sacred.

This goes beyond religion. It touches on the structure of reality.

What if the Quran and Hadith contained multidimensional truths that even believers have forgotten?
Anonymous No.40854884 [Report]
>>40854850 (OP)
Well...
1.causal plane
2.mental plane
3.astral plane
4.etheric plane
5.physical plane
6.unconscious plane
7.primal chaos (acausal)
Anonymous No.40855744 [Report] >>40858888
>Muslims practice a religion that contains profound, almost cosmic, esoteric elements, but which they do not master.
I agree, you have to delve into batini tafsir and find good groups who study the esoteric sciences of the Qur'an, it has so many layers to it, but orthodox are very much afraid to study this and stick to literal interpretations.
Anonymous No.40855757 [Report]
You are like little baby
Anonymous No.40856137 [Report] >>40858888
>>40854850 (OP)
>Muslims practice a religion that contains profound, almost cosmic, esoteric elements, but which they do not master.
This statement is akin to generalizing all Christians based on what Catholics believe. Do you even Ismaili bro, or Sufism at the very least?
Anonymous No.40856472 [Report] >>40859024 >>40859473
>>40854850 (OP)
>What if the Quran and Hadith contained multidimensional truths that even believers have forgotten?

No shit they forgot it. I just left Islam the other day myself despite knowing some of this and the profound implications - the "modern muslim" is such a materialist midwit that I could not in good consciousness continue down that path any longer. To uphold Islam is to uphold the idiocracy parts of it as well , the overly repressive and restrictive aspects as well and any male that isn't heavily masculine is effectively shunned. Even if the deeper truths are there - your day to day experience especially out west is going to feel incredibly lacking if you aren't a prototypical muslim male.

I'm pivoting towards buddhism. Even if Islam goes soo much deeper , if it always falls on deaf ears, even Sufism is widely regarded as heretical (and it is, its effectively neoplatonism coded in Islamic terminology hence its ban) - what does it say about the condition of the faith?

To be an esoteric muslim is an extremely extremely hard path - even sects within Islam are at each others throats sometimes and just imagine if they heard you spouting all this "nonsense" - so no friends within the club and definitely no friends outside of it either.
Anonymous No.40858389 [Report] >>40858436
>>40854850 (OP)
>It is as if they have been given knowledge that they themselves do not understand, but which they respect because they consider it sacred.

That's true for every major tradition. I don't think Christians understand the Bible either.
Anonymous No.40858436 [Report]
>>40858389

My wife has been watching this ex-pastor on Tik Tok who is clearly reading the Bible for the first time and just yells at the camera "so you expect me to believe that this guy Job was just cool with God letting Satan taking his family and home? Really? This doesnt make sense"

Their own leadership are sub-iq
Anonymous No.40858888 [Report] >>40858909
>>40855744
>>40856137

Here OP
I was a Muslim for several years. I started with three years in the Ashrafi school, then, over the last three years, I turned to Salafism, the most literalist branch of Islam. During this period, I had no interest in esotericism. I listened only to the scholars of Saudi Arabia, with all their well-known rigidity, a rigidity that, in my opinion, serves primarily to maintain a certain power.

Today, I no longer consider myself a Muslim. I feel closer to pantheism and esotericism. I have come to the conclusion that all the great religions contain fragments of truth. The truth, in my eyes, is an immense puzzle, scattered across the four corners of the world. Unfortunately, most believers follow their religion blindly, without seeking to see what lies beyond appearances.

For me, remaining confined exclusively to Islam, even in its esoteric dimension, is a dead end. We can't lie to ourselves: Muhammad is not, in my eyes, the most spiritually enlightened figure, especially when compared to other great mystical figures of humanity. There is profound and spiritual knowledge that can only be discovered by exploring other traditions.

Today, my worldview has changed. I no longer believe in a rigid religion, but in a living spirituality. I believe in reincarnation, in a universal truth, and in the personal quest for meaning, beyond dogma.

Thank you for reading.
Anonymous No.40858909 [Report] >>40859284
>>40858888
Part 2

Islam, in my opinion, does not place enough emphasis on love. Certainly, there are a few hadiths that evoke divine compassion, such as the one that says that God sent down only one of His mercies on Earth and that 99 remain for the afterlife, or the one that states that God loves humanity more than a mother loves her child. But when we look at religious discourse as a whole, it is much more focused on fear, punishment, and hell. The vibration of the words is often heavy, punitive... and ultimately, it is not a very luminous energy.

Once again, limiting ourselves to a single religion is depriving ourselves of a broader vision. Islam does not speak, for example, of chakras, of spiritual awakening through inner energy, of the fact that we are fragments of the divine, or of kundalini this real energy, felt in the body, which rises along the spine. Yet these are realities that many other traditions address directly and in detail.

Even in its esoteric version, Islam remains silent on these energetic and inner experiences. It is as if an essential dimension of being is missing. For me, spirituality today cannot be confined within a single framework. We must look beyond religious boundaries to reach a deeper, more universal truth.
Anonymous No.40859024 [Report] >>40859473
>>40856472
I agree with you, but it's because of all the verses that invoke fear and prevent research, like this one:
Surah 3 – Al-Imran, verse 7:

"It is He who has revealed to you the Book: in it are some verses that are clear, which are the foundation of the Book, and others that are ambiguous. So those in whose hearts is an inclination toward error, emphasize the ambiguous verses, seeking to dissect them by trying to find an interpretation for them, while none knows the interpretation except Allah. And those firmly grounded in knowledge say: 'We believe in it; it is all from our Lord!' But only those endowed with understanding remember it."
(Quran 3:7)
Anonymous No.40859284 [Report]
>>40858909
Read them in this order, this is the final boss of islamic esotericism
1. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/36931222/#36931222
2. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/36976168/#36976168
3. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37023268/#37023268
4. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37093515/#37093515
5. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37134196/#37134196
6. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37237392/#37237392
7. https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/37333243/#37333243
Anonymous No.40859473 [Report] >>40859534
>>40859024

Right back at you, couldn't agree more with your reply (im >>40856472 poster)

It's such a challenge cause if you are willing to peel back the layers , even this verse could contain a double context - because when you reflect on how the quran was put together, what the common books of tafsir are about, the ones overly dissecting meaning towards their own strict interpretations are the scholars themselves lmao , same goes for hadith collectors who chose to keep a certain uthmanic narrative and lets not even get into the problems of verbal hadith collection in the first place.

As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.”

Did Uthman keep this verse to ward off the Sufi's? No one knows the meaning except Allah - did Uthman put this in specifically to represent the midwits? IE - don't think too hard guys , dont peel back the curtain, you wouldn't get it anyway, etc

But only those endowed with understanding remember it. (or in my translated copy -- But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason.)

Imran 3:8 - ˹They say,˺ “Our Lord! Do not let our hearts deviate after you have guided us. Grant us Your mercy. You are indeed the Giver ˹of all bounties˺.

All he addressed as "they" in the previous verse is "the people of reason/endowed with understanding" - this could very well mean those who understand it what would be defined as "esoterically" in the modern muslim landscape.

When you ask "who are the people of reason in surah imran" - the interpreation that comes up is: The "people of reason" in Surah Al 'Imran are those who reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth, recognizing the signs of God's existence and attributes. They are encouraged to use their intellect to understand and accept the truth of God's revelations
Anonymous No.40859534 [Report]
>>40859473

So there's nothing inherently salafi/strict Sunni about "the people of reason" which is what makes it a damn shame they won out.

As you mentioned
> quran needs a greater emphasis on love

idk desu - thats what christianity purports itself to be and look where that got them- a million denominations, a man as a God they clearly worship,

I think Muhammad was very intentional with setting the tone that love in the context of god is seeking mercy and giving praise/understanding , praise upon Allah is manifesting love towards god , so technically it all counts, when you see what Sufi's do - its all essentially a manifestation of love. To love as a lesser being is to be praise the master and the one who created you because you really do not understand what it is.

But again , so many muslims are materialists, they only want to follow surface level rulings, they have no desire to cultivate the deeper love of God, you will not meet a single muslim IRL who would hold this understanding unless you lived in the heart of the Islamic world (North Africa , Arabia) and know the right people/find sufi groups.

I asked myself even if I could uphold this - "do I really wanna live a life of secrecy? Lying?" and it just exhausted me , perhaps when I'm older an a little stronger I can give it another whirl but damn FUCK cultural strict muslims.
Anonymous No.40859603 [Report] >>40859636
I used to be a Muslim but not only does hell not make sense to me, Islam has just become a banal legalistic shitshow.Sunnis have no imagination. And they practically go into fits when you point out all the ridiculous self-contradictory shit in Bukhari. Basically no Muslim considered me to actually be Muslim because I was concerned with God and not what colors I could wear (I still prayed 5 times a day and didn't eat pork or drink)
Beyond that, it doesn't make sense that we have an eternal soul, but we absolutely cannot repent after death and ascend to heaven. Even intercession on behalf of Muslims is contentious and arguably only supported by ahadith.
I think sufis just got a lot right because there's a lot of truth that any intelligent person can find in anything
Anonymous No.40859636 [Report]
>>40859603
BTW, elaborating on the inanimate objects bearing witness: I believe all objects contain a mind that can be harnessed and directed into discrete consciousness not unlike animal consciousness. I didn't even think about this particular ayah this way before.