Thread 40865295

so I can be less stupid

>>40865295 (OP)
I don't think meditating just automatically downloads knowledge and wisdom into your brain, like some kind of "akashic records" new age fantasy. It does however help you develop a calmer mind that might be conducive to improved thought patterns that help in making better decisions or being patient enough to study and gradually gain more knowledge in whatever field. With enough practice in something like samatha and vipassana, you also might be able to use both as a problem solving tool.

By not meditating I have gained precious time in my day.
It has no benefits beyond what would come from normal relaxation such as reading a book or watching a movie or insulting Redditors
Sitting around doing nothing is pointless. To achieve anything you must act.
Reject meditation. Do stuff.

Meditation, or "meditation"? My entire life from day 1 has been a 25/8 meditation, and probably yours too.

>>40865295 (OP)
You literally -meditate- on stuff aka Trying to make sense of reality and all its sensory data in a structured order/philosophy of your own, based on the teachings and observations of your past environments. Omce you start doing that, it becomes easier to -deep meditate-, which is the meditation most laymen immediately associate the word with.

No easy way to be less stupid. Because it hurts to know and discover shit, but at least the upside is that it won't bother you near as much as it once did.

>>40865361
>*frantic mazing sounds*

>>40865361
This guy gets it. Carpentry is a meditation. Skateboarding is a meditation. Being intimate with a girl you love and who loves you back is a meditation. Picking a guitar is a meditation.

>>40865383
Yes

>>40865383
Ah, also this too. Good point, very wise.

what is the difference between formless jhana/void, and Dao/samadhi/ the state that comes after that (not in terms of another jhana btw, more descriptively).
beyond just visual experience of light...
so it's pure consciousness/formless jhana/void /nothing to I am nothing AND everything and the interflow between them, experientially, isn't it?

>>40865444
No that’s fucking stupid and you are a larper.

>>40865361
>m-meditation isnt active at all
if the awareness isnt constant, its not even meditation

>>40865375
>You literally -meditate- on stuff aka Trying to make sense of reality and all its sensory data in a structured order/philosophy of your own, based on the teachings and observations of your past environments. Omce you start doing that, it becomes easier to -deep meditate-, which is the meditation most laymen immediately associate the word with.
reminder that contemplation is not dhyana
one should never take "meditation time" and sit there thinking about shit
its a guarantee to never make any meditative or spiritual progress
although you may figure some shit out by sitting there thinking
but knowledge is not spiritual advancement

>>40865444
>beyond just visual experience of light...
the arising of samahdi is most assuredly not just an experience of light
>what is the difference between formless jhana/void, and Dao/samadhi/ the state that comes after that (not in terms of another jhana btw, more descriptively).
the spiritual light arises from the great stillness
yin gives rise to yang

>>40865514
Good.
>>40865530
Larp.

>>40865543
>Larp
olfactoryanon chuckles when retards try to call his direct experiences larping

>>40865553
I’m sure he chuckles harder once he chugs his meds.

>>40865558
at least try to come up with an original insult if you're just hanging out being a dick

Meditation didn't really have any effects that were clearly distinct from plain old relaxation until stream entry. Now I don't need naps because it's like switching off a bit of malware that was eating up 20% of my energy and turning it into grouchiness.

>>40865444
Jhanas are just levels of samadhi. The formless jhanas are levels of samadhi where the mind is concentrated enough to tune out the sense of having a body. The point of them is to get your mind into a state where you can do vipassana with maximum efficiency.

>>40865568
Larping is tiresome. Just stop.

>>40865530
I mean what is the process?
>scattered mind
>stabilize on object
>stabilize on object, body and surroundings disappear
>a few moments later...
>pure awareness - void / formless jhana, pure being

is this sequence accurate?
*what comes next?*
is it a sense of going from pure being alone to pure being combined with manifest existence?

as in:
>experience outer self, manifest existence in daily life
>meditate, encounter inner self, pure being
> go deeper and experience both at the same time?

I don't meditate all that much.

>>40865603
When body and surroundings disappear, you're in 5th jhana (or 1st formless realm).
From there, switch your attention to the awareness of anything that you perceive in that infinite space, and eventually you'll shift gears into 6th jhana which feels like a homogeneous field of aliveness.
From there you can focus on the lack of inherent existence of anything being perceived, and you'll eventually shift gears into 7th jhana which feels like just being in an infinite empty void.
I don't know how to reliably get to 8th jhana, but I think I did it a couple times and visually it's like an old CRT turning off, leaving you in a realm of pitch black stillness.
What I typically do is just get into 6th jhana and try to directly perceive the anicca, dukkha, and anatta of all perceptions, which creates a tremendous sense of liberation and spaciousness. For a beginner, I would recommend "noting" practice if you need an easier technique that works. That primes the mind to reach cessation/fruition when you're ready, which basically happens by accident while meditating.

>>40865295 (OP)
Problem with these discussions is that "meditation" has become such an amorphous word that has countless different meanings because assholes like these >>40865367>>40865375>>40865383 don't know how to be precise with their language, so everyone just ends up talking past each other. No, when you're thinking about a problem that's called contemplation not meditation. No, participating in a hobby you enjoy isn't called meditation that's called recreation. Pretty soon gooning to the tight bodies of 2D girls on /h/ will be called meditation because it relaxes you or some shit.

Now, as for the "meditation" that's been becoming popular in health/self-help/grindset culture in the past decade (popular in certain religious traditions for centuries as well), mindfulness meditation, that has been shown to improve working memory and executive attention. So yes it probably will make you feel less stupid. As for the /x/ stuff about helping you reach enlightenment or communicate with entities, hell if I know.

>>40865361
Akshully the Science™ disagrees with you. Mindfulness meditation is one of the things that we actually have pretty robust evidence for its benefits, beyond just relaxation. Including! Here's the kicker: executive function! So this form of meditation will actually help you "act" and "do stuff".

>>40865752
Nope. It’s the same benefits.
Post your studies and let’s see who wrote them.

>>40865603
>is this sequence accurate?
mildly at best, for a lot of the things that contribute arent there
the body must be conditioned for these things, the mind too
humans are habitual creatures, so the habits one has carry this energy momentum
to the extent that those habits contradict the establishment of the conditions for things like samahdi to arise,
they become roadblocks that must be worked past
the biggest keys are streamlining & efficiency gains, focused awareness, actions done enough and often enough to imbue good habit energy of the meditative process
at a neurological level, slight inefficiencies are what create random thoughts
these build up until a threshold level is reached and then there's enough potential to pop off a random thought
so long as these inefficiencies are not dealt with, meditation will always and forever remain broken into pieces that cannot stay long enough for the spark of spiritual light to arise from them
just sniffing the air or other sense activity contributes towards this energy remainder, so this is the exact reason to train the breath, is to train the nerves
when you stop consuming all this energy by sense use, the energy will build and make these things more possible
for indeed a requisite energy buildup needs to happen before any of this will take place
once all the habituation and breathwork training has taken place, things get a little more in line with how you put things
it took me a year of work to troubleshoot all of this and then 3 months for the light to arise when I first did it
but I approached the matter from this perspective of neurological noise
breathwork is done specifically to eliminate this noise (and help train the mind to stay focused)
at times my practice was in high rigor, yeah, sit for 3-4-5 min quieting things, the stillness comes, the spark arises from it
but to only say that and not mention that I put in a good 500-600 hours of work before these things became manifest...would be rather misleading

>>40865752
>Problem with these discussions is that "meditation" has become such an amorphous word that has countless different meanings because assholes like these >>40865367>>40865375>>40865383 don't know how to be precise with their language, so everyone just ends up talking past each other. No, when you're thinking about a problem that's called contemplation not meditation. No, participating in a hobby you enjoy isn't called meditation that's called recreation. Pretty soon gooning to the tight bodies of 2D girls on /h/ will be called meditation because it relaxes you or some shit.
this is definitely an issue when discussing these things
when olfactoryanon says meditation, the best word is likely dhyana, but at root it is just the cultivation of awareness
once most of the work is done, its an awareness game to see how long you can keep it focused
this becomes imperative when one reaches the point of having the spiritual light arise, because it will not stay unless the awareness is focused and present, and should it falter for even a moment, the light disappears and isnt coming back that session

>>40865789
my dear zoomer, it appears you wont understand this unless you akshually sit down and do the real work yourself.
dont fret, I believed dumb things like this when I was barely old enough to post here too, not that this place existed at that time

>>40865825
So basically you made up some studies or cannot find them or cannot be bothered to find them which is all equally useless.
You tried to present this as facts.
I ask you to back up your claim and you post shit.
Fucking imbecile.

>>40865851
>if modern studies dont exist then these benefits written about for thousands of years dont exist
hahahahahaha
I didnt present any studies
I presented my own personal experience from having read a couple good bits of material and executed their essence to perfection
I dont really give two flying fucks if anyone does any studies
for I have verified these results for myself
if muh modern studies are your bar for results,
not knowing that globohomo wants you weak, sickly, and unable to think clearly
you've pretty much already lost the mindwar

>>40865851
>I ask you to back up your claim
and as the arising of the spiritual light is something one can only personally experience for himself, there is quite simply no possible way to "Back this up" unless you sit and do the work and realize the result for yourself, and then you know for sure.
but if one doesnt put in the work, the probability of samahdi arising is basically 0
its also a fact that the metabolism will accelerate wildly when some good average breath durations are hit with regularity
its also a fact that joy is a by product of an enhanced endocrine function, and achieving results in meditation triggers this down down master endocrine control function
there are no "studies" on this because most shit is difficult or impossible to measure
and there's no money to be made from getting people to meditate
why would the industry that just subjected most of the world to medical experimentation want to give people a free way to avoid using their services?
use your head, man

>>40865795
>what comes next
>spark
So what actually is this spark, metaphysically?
So you get to formless jhanas which is your pure awareness, also nothingness, ok. that's nice. The theoretical list of jhanas stops there, with more or less various ways of describing nothingness/peace/void. But there is certainly something beyond all the peaceful jhanas.
what exactly is it?
so the whole universe is you so it must be you, but what exact part/form/experience of yourself is it?
is it nothingness -> (nothing + everything) at once?
unmanifest existence -> (manifest + unmanifest)

>>40865886
>>40865919
You are a fucking idiot.

>>40865934
>So what actually is this spark, metaphysically?
as far as I understand, an energy body more or less exists but isnt going to be significant enough to say \survive physical death unless it is well cultivated
cultivating this energy body is a prerequisite to full enlightenment but it is not full enlightenment
before having this experience I only read some things about there being light in some form at some point but it wasnt anything I was trying to make manifest
most of these things I'm telling are just outcomes of rigorous practice
a well cultivated buddhist master and friend told me that it would seem I had experienced most of the jhanas in some form or another, by how I have described things
and while I'm moderately well versed on buddhist lore, I find the descriptions to be very pedantic and using a different word for each little minute distinction of things that arise in practice greatly contributes towards this perception
if anything my leanings are more taoist, but my view is more a bruce lee one where you simply take what's useful, discard what's useless
as the nerves are calmed, they transition their resonant mode from yang to yin
this is why the buddha is fat, it is denoting this shift from a neurological perspective
the buddha smiles because of the endocrine enhancement
the fat smiling buddha is thus a practice signpost for people
when I read someone say to focus on the tip of my nose I chuckle at it, knowing it misses the underlying fundamental
and its why the anapanasati sutta has superfluous parts in it, like noticing you've taken a breath
quantum mechanical experiments have shown that the less you know of each individual action in such cases, the higher efficiency and higher probability of desired outcome
a matter of sequenced vs constructively amplifying vs just perfectly aware of awareness and the actions take place with no effort
when you reach that 3rd stage that's when the great stillness is already there and samahdi isnt far

>>40865752
One of the biggest mistakes I have made is to believe in the supremacy of this board, I wasted my 2 years believing whatever was posted here, i thought this board has intelligent posters unlike the NPC of reddit, thankfully i started reading books written by scientists, religious texts few months back, majority of the posters here have never read a single book in their life but act so confident that they know the secrets of universe. For op & other don't rely on any posts here, the only good source of information is books probably those written before 2010 and yes meditation works, but first research on it, you will find the right materials, techniques, & philosophy, just have intention.

>>40865934
>what exactly is it?
I'd be lying if I said I could give a very precise answer
but it is the doorway to enlightenment though which one must pass in order to gain the full achievement
its startling the first time it appears, magical and brilliant and I wanted to leap from my seat and yell, it was the most fantastic thing I have ever experienced
it took quite a while before it came back, briefly because you have to learn how to more or less catch and hold its arising
after a while, it began to come like clockwork, every single day, until something would come along and fuck up my overall practice and the requisite energy levels werent there enough to support it
but I will tell you when it arises every day, there are no random thoughts
inefficiencies still build up but you learn to counter their arising and re-absorb the energy potential that is getting out of line
its part of what led me to understand that random spontaneous thoughts are a blowoff valve for brain inefficiencies conscious vs subconscious
paying attention helps eliminate the energy potentials that give rise to this happening, but without the underlying training to quiet the neurology then its going to be an impossible game
when the light arises, there's nothing else
no senses, no perception of the passage of time
words fail at this point, it may be an experience of just the energy body
but when you reach the point where words fail, all you have to rely on is abstractions
just understand that the words are abstractions and its all good, the real understanding is personal

>>40865752
>>40866012
Olfactoryanon whatever the fuck that means here. These stood out to me the most, thank you

>>40866012
I wont disagree that there's plenty of posters that dont know shit
but I have been posting here for a few years teaching people
I am olfactoryanon
my training has been thorough and my results pretty atypical
I mostly attribute this to the fact that people dont want to put in the work, dont know how to put in the work, etc
so I come to teach the basics that will get people there
you can go read Bodri, BK, Master Nan, Dr Yang, or anyone else who's written about the basics of meditation
go read all of that, put it all to practice, make those gains, and you will come to an understanding that olfactoryanon has been there and has distilled all of it for yous, in greater depth and detail than you will find in any of the aforementioned materials
mainly because nobody else has approached this problem from a neurological perspective before
and in doing so, I have elucidated things others have not
but I pretty much just teach the basics here
basics that if done well enough...you dont need anything else
but if done at least decently...will provide a superlative safety net for all those other energy practices one can undertake
for the yang needs to be balanced by the yin
so I teach how to yin
so that you may yang as you please

>>40866075
>whatever the fuck that means here
if you were a regular visitor here looking at meditation threads, you'd already know who I am
its a name I was given because I mentioned the neurological potentials generated by the olfactory nerve and that is the reason why you need to bring the flow of air beneath the threshold of turbulence
anons started calling me that, so now I'll just refer to myself as such here and there

>>40865383
wanking is meditation

>>40866091
Grim larper
>>40866106
Unfortunate truth

>>40866115
probably 60% of the meditation threads have some asshole like this in them
go do something constructive with your life, son

>>40866125
he's right though.
meditation is just another larp.

>>40866091
Should have referred to myself as op, apologies. Hence why I believe I’m stupid. But the threshold of turbulence you mention is interesting, what’s that about?

>>40866056
I appreciate you've given the board.
It seems to be the move from Wuji (void) to Dao (more dynamic, holistic, a "yes" to life, rather than a "no").
I would argue that there is only manifest/separated consciousness (samsara) and pure/still consciousness (nirvana/void).
So the only way you can transcend maximum stillness, without just sinking back into a normal mental/physical state of non-meditation, is not to go further into stillness (that's just the buddhist final jhanas) but to combine both.
As in you go from experiencing separated existence, to experiencing stillness/unity, to experiencing BOTH at the same time and the interflow between them. That is Dao.

>>40866157
*what you've..

>>40866142
>But the threshold of turbulence you mention is interesting, what’s that about?
if you feel breath, what you are feeling is turbulence
there's plenty of nooks & crannies in the airways
fast moving air forms vortices that suck efficiency out of the flow
this is why you cant sniff the air when doing meditative breathing
not only does air flow across the olfactory nerve induce neurological potentials sent to the midbrain (this too uses up energy by virtue of the potential itself being generated and sent to the midbrain) but from a flow standpoint, efficiency is reduced because its going in circles instead of where it needs to go
it is also why I prescribe the bath exercise to help perceive these things more clearly
take a warm bath, lay back in it so that the water is against both eardrums
note how much you sniff the air when you think you're just breathing normally
in order to make the breath perfectly quiet, it must be drawn from the diaphragm and you cant use anywhere air touches to move the air though the system, doing so necessarily creates turbulence
so once you've done enough work to figure out how to breathe just with your gut, then, turbulence is all gone, things get way quieter
this is "beneath the threshold of turbulence" where turbulence is no longer a thing
what this accomplishes is it makes things as quiet as during a breath hold, but without the impending hypoxia
as a matter of energy efficiency, all structures that act upon the perotoneum are used in breathing
diaphragm descends on inhale, perineum and abdomen relax,
exhaling, the perineum and abdomen support until most of the air is expelled, just not to the point of strain
roll inhales and exhales seamlessly into one another and eventually that distinction disappears, too

>>40866157
>I appreciate you've given the board
namaste fren
>So the only way you can transcend maximum stillness,
I believe this view is somewhat erroneous in that yang does not require a prompt from yin in order to change and manifest
the way one transcends maximum stillness is by keeping the awareness
when the conditions are ripe, the spark of yang arises from the depths of yin of its own accord
there's nothing one can do to make this happen, except to arrange the conditions
then the arising will take place as it is ready, and not sooner

>>40866157
I do believe it is possible to make this light an ongoing thing, but I did not cultivate myself far enough to say for sure
but I def believe it is the root of attaining a halo
as to how that relates to full enlightenment...well, there also seems to be stages of enlightenment, I dont fully know all of those details.
I just know enough for sure to teach others how to get your foot in that door

what do you think of /loa/?
I will mention 2 ways it relates to meditation (I like to keep things connected):
>once in the void (i.e. formless jhanas) you can manifest instantly by intent, imagining, affirmation.
even more interesting:
>people have gone to the void WITHOUT meditation for various reasons, including- relaxation, trauma, and affirming.
(grab your shotgun and aim at the limiting belief over there...)

>>40866256
>once in the void (i.e. formless jhanas) you can manifest instantly by intent, imagining, affirmation.
whats left out of this is that comparatively vast energy reserves are required
the states can be achieved with far less than is required to just outright 'manifest things'
>people have gone to the void WITHOUT meditation for various reasons
but those means are not very repeatable at all

>>40865752
>Meditation isn't usually preceded by contemplation
>Bitches about lack of clarity of language
>Proceeds to blurt out slogans without even bother to explain them
So much for that hubris.
>>40866012
If that's you as well, that's some ironicaly good wisdom being unheeded.

No, I do not mean thinking about "problems" like mundane third-spatial shit like browsing this opinion board or fretting on semmantic bullshit. I mean more in the sense of trying to find out what Consciousness is on an instinctual, apriori level, or its source; if you start really digging at the more difficult questions of existence, while walking along a trail, and you really are passionate at it, you can reach a state of Oneness for a moment with existence: The sights, the sounds, they all become glass clear and defined. For an instant, it feels like you have made sense of everything, One discovers there's no need to fret, and all previous problems seems so stupid and meaningless, and that is quite something else. It's even better if one returns back with an insight that wasn't present before.

If that's not "meditation", I couldn't give a fuck what "meditation" then is. Semantics kiss dick.

>>40866256
>but those means are not very repeatable at all
one of the very important reasons I teach the way I do is that the process produces very repeatable phenomena

>>40866106
That's the opposite of it, nigga. You're overfocusing on the material plane for corporeal pleasure, you literally sink yourself to the Earth when you tug your Lil' Thug, man.

Fuck off. Better yet, -not-.

>>40865295 (OP)
It helps me to realize that sometimes I'm unreasonably in a bad mood on days that should be my happiest because I'm pointlessly obsessing over some past events or yet to be realized possible future that may never even be.
Unclench your jaw. Relax. Be present. Life is beautiful.

>>40865361
Why does this spook always show up to shill for modernity?

>>40866353
>I mean more in the sense of trying to find out what Consciousness is on an instinctual, apriori level, or its source; if you start really digging at the more difficult questions of existence, while walking along a trail, and you really are passionate at it, you can reach a state of Oneness for a moment with existence: The sights, the sounds, they all become glass clear and defined. For an instant, it feels like you have made sense of everything,
part of the problem with your approach is that you assume these things can be discerned by logical deduction
the spiritual process cannot be discerned by logical deduction
it cant be accomplished by mentation
indeed, mentation is antithetical to the spiritual process
contemplation is done at other times aside from meditation\dhyana
some things just need to be experienced

Sit in the dark with closed eyes with a straight spine and learn to relax every muscle in your body, then teach your breathing to be deep and slow and focus entirely on it, ignore all thoughts and emotions.

This is extremely hard and takes tons of hours for the average person to learn.

Yes even cleaning your room can be done meditatively, but going deep enough is not easy if you receive stimulus from your surroundings.

>>40865295 (OP)
I wish I could answer this, but I didn't make meditation an habit yet.

https://youtu.be/k8xJ46QtHGQ?si=6B_S0XH5m8XeJUOA (min 5:30 aprox)

Becoming aware of things which you were always unconscious of is a way to increase what one could call "wiseness" or "smartness" so yeah do it OP.

>>40866376
>he doesn't know about astral masturbation
ngmi

>>40865295 (OP)
you misspell medication?

>>40865795
>humans are habitual creatures, so the habits one has carry this energy momentum
>to the extent that those habits contradict the establishment of the conditions for things like samahdi to arise,

Can you please explain this a bit further? What are the habits you are speaking of which contradict the establishment of the conditions for things like samahdi to arise?

>>40872600
things like watching tv at night instead of sitting down for meditation
only sitting once a day
not sitting for over an hour in the evening session
too much alcohol burns off the chi built up that it uses to manifest
weed dulls the body out, these are in part proprioception exercises
eating shitty food to a lesser degree, if your guts are perturbed then the session wont be well net energy positive
if your woman is a cunt and always stresses you out, this will perturb you sufficiently
cant be a stressed person and expect these things to manifest
thinking or any sort of mentation directly burns the root energy that samahdi needs to manifest
this is also why it cant manifest if you cant pay good attention for a long time
or why it wont stay long at all if the mind cant be stilled for long periods of time
basically a bunch of mundane day to day habits are cultivation blockers
so the habit of cultivation needs to be well established before the body smooths out well enough for stillness to really be still
and stillness being very still is a prerequisite to samahdi

>>40873156
I see, so I have to overcome all my addictions and put the time into it....thank you olfactory anon.

>>40865361
>>40865383
Least obvious glownigger

>>40865789
>SOURCE?
He made it up.

Go google it if you want sources so badly you materialist twat. It's literally takes less than a minute. Actually you won't because you just came here to tip your fedora.

>>40873803
namaste fren

I want to reach a point in meditation where I could light myself on fire without flinching.


Namaste.