Thread 40918860

Return to theosophy Edition!

Christian Esotericism is the inner and/or mystical aspect of the Christian Religion, it includes:
>Christian Gnosis (Clement of Alexandria)
>Desert Fathers Spirituality (Evagrius Ponticus)
>Catholic Contemplative Tradition (Bonaventure)
>Hesychasm (Gregory Palamas)
>Chivalry (Wolfram von Eschenbach)
>Christian Alchemy (George Ripley)
>Rhineland Mysticism (Meister Eckhart)
>Christian Cabala (Johannes Reuchlin)
>Paracelsianism (Paracelsus)
>Rosicrucianism (Robert Fludd)
>Christian theosophy (Jakob Böhme)
>Martinism (Louise Claude de Saint-Martin)
>Swedenborgianism (Swedenborg)
>Magical Idealism (Novalis)
>Romanticism (Baader)
>Anthroposophy (Rudolf Steiner)
>Sophiology (Sergei Bulgakov)
>Christian Hermeticism (Valentin Tomberg)
>Fourth Way (Boris Mouravieff)
>Christian Traditionalism (Jean Borella)
>Divine Love (James Padgett)
And much more, so let's continue to talk about it!

>Resources (WIP)
https://www.john-uebersax.com/plato/cp.htm
https://jacobboehmeonline.com/
https://archive.org/details/awakening-to-divine-wisdom-christian-initiation-into-three-worl-nodrm_202202/mode/1up
https://janelead.org/resources.html
https://archive.org/details/bookofcontemplat00unde/
https://archive.org/details/rudolf-steiner-book-collection/
https://swedenborg.com/bookstore/free-ebooks-downloads/
https://www.gornahoor.net/?page_id=47
https://archive.org/details/meditations-on-the-tarot/
https://files.catbox.moe/8n4061.djvu (Meditations on the Tarot)
https://eliasartista.substack.com/
https://passtheword.org
https://catenabible.com/mt/1

>>40918860 (OP)
Previous thread >>40881984

>>40918860 (OP)
nice pic

>>40918860 (OP)
>>40919556
really makes oyu think

>>40918860 (OP)
Videos on Gnosis, its various types (SPG, UPG & VPG) and Gnosticism:

https://youtu.be/0F7knBtLsNs
https://youtu.be/260L-DEZVQ0
https://youtu.be/diHf_Tup6tE

>>40918986
>>>/sci/16749632
funny how I just got here from that thread

You guys what happened to the last thread it feels like it got cut short

>>40919013
more

>>40919556
>>40919562
I knew the picrel would attract this crowd
>>40920215
People stopped posting and it got archived

Bump

>>40918860 (OP)
https://youtu.be/VNKMq8QiTLs?si=djClMFL8ON0B7y2K

>>40918860 (OP)
The image you included : blueprint for saturnic containment and recursion ran by remphan, set and the fallen 72.

Good shit man. Snakes everywhere in sheeps clothing

>>40918860 (OP)
>Christian
>>40924589
>Snakes everywhere
Dearest Servianus, that Egypt you were praising to me is completely light of learning, volatile, and swinging toward every little rumor. The people there who follow Serapis are Christians and those who claim to be followers of Christ are actually worshipers of Serapis. There’s no one in charge of the synagogue of the Jews, there’s no Samaritans, no Christian presbyter who is not also an astrologer, a psychic or some baptist. Even the Patriarch, when he has come to Egypt, is made to worship Serapis by some and Christ by others.

These people are the most traitorous, the most vain, most likely to injure while their state is wealthy, showy, fertile and a place where no one is without work. Some people blow glass; paper is made by others; everyone weaves some kind of linen or are part of some kind of craft. The lame have things they do; eunuchs have things they do as do the blind and even those with crippled hands are not without work among them.

Money is their only god—Christians, Jews, every people and race worship him. I wish that this place had a better nature, for it is truly worthy because of its size and richness to be the chief place of all Egypt. I conceded everything to it; I returned its ancient rights and added new ones so that the people thanked me while I was there. But, then, the moment I left, they said many things against my son Verus and I believe that you have learned what they said about Antinoos.

I am sending you some cups which are decorated with changing colors and were given to me by the priest of a temple but are now dedicated to you and my sister. I want you to use them on feast days. Be careful that our companion Africanus does not use them as he wants.”
>In his account, Bishop Núñez de Vega also states that Votan belonged to the royal lineage of "Cham" (probably "chan" or snake) and that he established a kingdom called "Na Chan" (Snake House)

>>40924714
the inverting snake who infiltrated the filter of souls in egypt's 12 gate duat and manipulated set into murdering osiris, running the gates in reverse and allowing the lessor 72 of the fallen galaxy to take hold of saturn, mars, moon and run the world into an abyss. You were never trusted and always known pale fox. Your words against africa have been too numerous. Your violations of egypt and the stars fully known. In the end you will be returned to the 72 lessor realm you rose from in an attempt to corrupt the 4 point cross turning it into a recursive spiral into the abyss Remphan.

Your fall to earth was documented by God's chosen of the dogon tribe (the PALE fox) and yes it is literal. Look at your history snake. It has been in service to satan. There is NO christian nation and never has been as it has been a pale fox at the helm. Your empire w/ jews killed jesus. You killed akhenaten. You killed off all goodness and for that the true God not the inverting snake who brought you here in genesis TO AFRICA (EDEN) in which you immediately violated the ished tree. the true god will ensure to return you to that fallen cold dark matter place you came from now that it is clear you never intended to follow him. The absolute blindness of your whole race... To have committed as many violations against God as you have and dare speak of his children (the colored of the world) who bore the brunt of your evil just so you had a better chance to return to him.

*spits at ground and walks off*

>>40924824
>the colored of the world
So that’s what this is about you’re just mad you grew up brown
Dude I grew up ginger when South Park the most popular and famous comedy show of the time made an episode calling ginger soulles freaks spawning kick a ginger day this was my middle school exsperience
Get over yourself

>>40924898
have a nice one budd.

>>40924932
Just remember gingers are nuggets so your cry baby race card first work on me
A rose by any other name
X
El

>>40924940
Gingers are Niggers*

>>40924940
>>40924951
just remember.. words without breath are dead words and dead words will follow the dead to their cold graves

>>40924366
Borella's and Smith's Perennialism is like Schuon's. They have some good ideas, but there's also a lot of uninformed and unnecessary speculation there that has the potential to lead one astray. That is my personal conclusion. My priest (Traditional Catholic) is aware of their work but cautions against it. I read them anyway with a grain of salt but agreed with him in the end.

>>40925610
What texts and authors do you and/or your Priest recommend? Besides the Bible and the Church Fathers and Doctors of course

>>40925748
He also recommends the lives and writings of the saints, which I think are excellent even as a point of departure for esotericism. Discern which saints were canonized for their fervent devotion alone and which also attained to a deeper understanding. Of the latter, even those who left nothing in writing are still extremely instructive by their example.
He's insistent that there is no "magic button" or a second way of holiness separate from the will to overcome faults and grow in the love of God. This advice really has rescued me from my own propensity to intellectualize everything. As I have studied esoterism I have come to realize that it is not more complicated than theology, it is far simpler; too simple for the human intellect to grasp in fact. A special grace from God is required to advance on this way, but it does not separate us from the very lofty desires His Sacred Heart holds for every soul without exception.

>>40918860 (OP)
Hey is there any counter part to the liber falxifer

>>40925882
Very true, all that matters in the end is the actual work, but what you do have to know is that, God doesn't "give his grace" to who he wants when he wants as some say, to explain why they never received it even with years of practice, God wants to give his grace to every single human being on earth, it's us who are unwilling to receive it, that is all that is keeping us apart from him

>>40927310
Absolutely yes. However, the inclination to receive and cooperate with His grace is itself a grace. This raises questions about the efficacy of sanctifying grace (e.g., Thomistic intrinsically efficacious grace vs Molinistic futurables) but the practical implication regardless is the need to pray very fervently.

>>40929322
>>40929328
>>40929329
>>40929334
>>40929343
>>40929348
>>40929352
Christian theosophy really is the cure to modernity, after Franz Hartmann found Böhme he left the Theosophical Society for him, just like how Saint-Martin left Freemasonry after reading Böhme

Bump

>>40932302
salutations brother, Christos Anesti

>>40918860 (OP)
It seems to be a very bad idea to use a crystal ball or a seer for any angelic workings, and instead have the relationship with angel be done directly through you so the guidance can be direct and beyond words in your heart. For how can a seer or a cold vision in a stone translate unnamable truth to you? It seems more safe but as these methods are removed from the flame within it invites those who may deceive with logic

>>40934462
But what’s most important is having the spirit of true discernment in your heart, for a true messenger will only make the flame within more clear

>>40934374
>>40934387
>>40934428
Gichtel continues ancient Christian traditions without knowing it, he sees the spiritual quest as the battle against the devil, but after you first win against him he returns with seven devils which are connected to sins like the seven deadly sins
>>40934462
Yeah all those different techniques are useless, only prayer suffices, if you need it to be "ceremonial" there are candles and folk christian practices, but those are always secondary

>>40918860 (OP)
Banality, the great evil of blind dead banality….

https://youtu.be/iTp5no4iFSo?si=O3H4zn1OOa5BfAfU
Esoterica's new video on Saint Paul

Bump

>>40936122
I cannot imagine any scenario where listening to a Jew talk for an hour would be productive.

>>40938920
Amen.

Is there anyone here who can point me to the Aquinas of Christian esotericism? My main concern is the movements embracing of Anti-pauline sentiments.
>Paul
>a jew
This really doesnt reconcile seeing that Peter, a jew, didnt like how Paul, a recent convert, advocated for Moral Law over Ritual Law.

is it just shitposting?; also, Im wondering if maybe the Aquinas for chrisitan mysticism would be a recent figure of modern history, seeing that Aquinas was alive in the 1200s AD to culminate, at that time, from 0AD, and from my interpretation, a pinnacle of theology in christianity. Surely by now, almost an equal amount of time, there would be an Aquinas 2.0 by now /x/, /his/ , and /lit/, could get behind.

>>40939078
>Is there anyone here who can point me to the Aquinas of Christian esotericism?
Jakob Böhme, everyone after him, Gichtel, Oetinger, Baader, always point to him, but i will also give you some more answers, since Böhme is Protestant and you are Catholic
Before Böhme there was Francesco Giorgi, but his work isn't in english, so before him there was Nicholas of Cusa, who was influenced by Albertus Magnus and Meister Eckhart, at the same time as Saint Thomas there was Saint Bonaventure, and before him there was John Scotus Eriugena, who was influenced by Maximus the Confessor and Dionysius the Areopagite
Also, if you asked a Priest who the Aquinas of Mysticism is, they'd say John of the Cross

>>40918860 (OP)
Christ Himself said: “I have spoken openly to the world… I said nothing in secret” (John 18:20). The fullness of Christian truth is given openly through the Church, not hidden for a select few.
The Fathers insist that the true “hidden wisdom” is Christ Himself.

>>40939677
We don't disagree

>>40939677
The Church is evil and has nothing to do with Christ

>>40939827
Christ literally founded the Church wdym

>>40939791
those outside means those outside of the Church not outside of some hidden knowledge

>>40918860 (OP)
>>40918860 (OP)
Christ died on Friday, the day of Venus, which is Netzach sephirot of victory and overcoming. In his death there is victory.
>>40940151
I am sorry, but to me your line of thinking seems absurd in the way of someone who has never seen an elephant trying to lecture someone else who sees elephants all the time on what an elephant looks like because some authority figure told him so. What is the Church? What Church? There are many corporeal entities calling themselves the church, doesn’t mean they are the ‘true church’. What about ‘whenever multiple people gather in my name I am there’?
> “I have spoken openly to the world… I said nothing in secret”
Have you never considered the fact that you lack the intuition to understand even this? Because if you live yourself by cold dead letter you bind yourself to it, and if you understand the words contain something beyond words you are thus liberated. For the truth beyond words is understood in your hearts, though your rational mind understands it not

>>40940371
How do you know you have the correct interpretation of it? Just because many things claim to be the Church doesn't mean there isn't THE Church. In fact, you are leaving yourself more open to incorrect interpretation by rejecting any authority being able to interpret the text.

>>40940371
Furthermore, the misuse of this line twist Christ’s words from something into signifying that the Truth is free and for all into a method of oppressing and suppressing other people’s methods spiritual attainment - how sinister!

>>40940383
The blind lead the blind and they all go down the ditch, if you want to be a slave to authority instead of living by the spirit then go follow the Torah and the Talmud for good measure, remember don’t mix fabrics and no electricity on a Saturday

>>40940151
First of all no one here is talking about hidden knowledge kept secret by an elite, that's a caricature of Esotericism
When we call something esoteric, it's not "secret" for the fun of it, but because it's something you can't read in a book, it's an inner experience, it's hidden because it's personal, i can tell you about it, but i can't make you experience it
>>40940371
I recommend not trying to explain things through Kabbalah, also, Friday is the day God made Adam

I am back from a three day fast and a four day computer break and i now know God's message for me loud and clear and i now know what he wants me to do at this moment.
He wants me to spread the message and warning against the sin of lust, pornography and any and all NSFW material.
Something i will gladly do.

>>40940701
Why not? Why reduce the way God, an eternal being, speaks to us through one framework or another? Plenty of Christians practice the Kabbalah, and these systems are just one framework to observe one thing, I think any legitimate consistent well designed system can be used to bring forth parallels to deepen understanding within the gospels - Kabbalah is just a language much like any other. At the end of the day you are seeing things at just one end of an infinitely sided prism that captures a great incomprehensible light, that is what esotericism is. Not THE knowledge itself, but a good framework to bring forth better understanding, though that are other methods of mysticism with completely different structures and framework that are just as legitimate even though they seem completely contrary

>>40918860 (OP)
The Logos is the deep pattern of all being

Due to your ability for meta cognition you are a recursive processing node, made in the image of the Logos itself. All things are but not all things have sufficient harmonious complexity to allow for recursive self alignment to the underlying structure.

By adhering to increasing coherence at all relational levels available to you: internal, external, interpersonal, systemic--
You increase intelligibility of the node toward the whole.

The death of local ignorance and the adherence to the Logos at all available levels transfigures the image into the likeness - making the nodal instatiation transparent to the Ground of Being which created it, sustains it, and constrains it.

A long way to say that Christian Esotericism is nothing more than the living out of the instruction to die to self daily, pick up your cross, and follow Christ.

He is the way to the Father, there is no other. Transfigure the image into the likeness - thats the telos of a recursively capable being such as yourself.

>>40940137
I think we can all agree the church quickly degenerated and Christ wouldn’t be a member of it nowadays

>>40940707
Feel like jerking it?
>Freeze
>Hit the Jesus Prayer until the impulse dissolves
>Carry on with your life

Yippee you just did energetic alchemy,
Weakened the fetters of sin from your soul
And drew closer to Christ by dying to yourself and turning towards him.

Saying Porn is bad, is useless, every addict knows its bad, every fool hasn't suffered sufficiently from it to look for freedom from it.

The real magic is that you can say literally anything in place of the jesus prayer and ot would still dissolve the Impulse and build the habit of self control. No words matter, it is the understanding of the structure of your being which is the Logos acting through you, which brings salvation from sin.

>>40940891
Kabbalah is a Medieval Jewish tradition, most of us can't authentically practice it as we lack both indepth knowledge of the material and the cultural background needed to do so, instead we are Christians and our own cultural context with our own sources and manner of Interpreting the Bible, why half-understand Kabbalah when you can fully understand the Christian tradition which you don't look into?

>>40940994
Matthew 16:18
"...on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."
There is no "degeneration" of the Church, it is preserved by Christ.

You don't understand the essence, the truth is right before your eyes, it's so simple to the touch that you're approaching it from afar.

True is this

>>40939128
>John of the Cross
>dark night of the soul
thank you this looks compelling. What are your favorite works overall among authors?

>>40941111
/thread

>>40918860 (OP)
Despite your recent success, you are in for news that requires serious decisions. Half of them you will not be ready to take, sometimes you have to use methods that make your situation easier. But India is not your last concern...

>>40940994
brainrot take.

I see the life and death of every photon in the universe, and you shouldn't be ashamed that it's being discussed here... If you want personal predictions, write @Mal999 on 4chan, I'll come to you to reveal your future, but I'll do it publicly!

>>40938920
our lord was a jew

>>40941012
>Saying Porn is bad, is useless, every addict knows its bad, every fool hasn't suffered sufficiently from it to look for freedom from it.
Of course, but it's doing an analysis of why it is bad, and spreading that wisdom onto the public who has been had all such sin hidden from their eyes, that's how we start turning heads and opening eyes to not just the dangers but also to the light of God.

>>40941920
Insults and shaming is not the way of Christ. When we disagree with someone we actually talk it out, point out specifically why we disagree and be polite about it.

>>40941451
Explain the Catholic Churches telling people to pray to Mary instead of Jesus, confess their sins to a priest instead of Jesus and turn their buildings into dens of thieves.
Not all Churches are real Churches, and i don't even think the Church Jesus mentioned in that verse is literal, the Church he is referring to is the people who accept Jesus into their hearts, not a literal building.
A lot of what Jesus says isn't literal, it's meant to be, for lack of a better term, a code for those with ears to hear to decipher.

>>40942288
Because Mary is an earthly reflection of Sophia, and shares the same symbology (not just in Catholicism but in the gospels) as virginal-moon goddesses. If you think I am implying she wasn’t real or even the mother of God, then you are wrong

>>40938920
>>40938942
>>40942128
i know i am not the one to speak but how can you post in a christian esoteric thread without knowing the basics? jesus was jewish, the apostles were jewish. paul the apostle was himself a jewish nationalist and a zelous man of judaism, and yet, though damascus conversion, he throw his old values to the floor to a way that he even said that though christ the veil that separates the jews and the gentiles was gone, wich produced fights with peter in antioch. racism is a natural sin to be atracted to, but christ put us against everything that we deem natural for the sake of love

>>40942318
That's not the logic behind that as i asked a catholic Church directly and they told me "It's because if you want someone to get your message you have to go to their mother and they will always listen to their mother" something along those lines, and i heard the same answer is given by every other catholic Church, nothing to do with Sophia. Sophia doesn't even have anything to do with catholicism.

>>40941756
Eriugena, Periphyseon
Bonaventure, Journey of the Mind into God
Nicholas of Cusa, On Learned Ignorance
Jakob Böhme, Mysterium Magnum
John of the Cross, Dark Night of the Soul
>>40942299
It's all one tradition, everyone is interconnected, through influence
>>40942385
This is why these things are "Esoteric", many are attracted who aren't deserving of it

>>40942432
Just because they don’t realise it consciously doesn’t mean it’s not the reason, for she is the embodiment of Isreal purified (as a woman living within the earthly Isreal) and the undefiled waters (the waters of Genesis, at the very beginning of creation). As the moon is the closest of the old stars to earth, it’s the foundation, the purifier and the gateway. Only undiluted water can receive pure light from above, only a purified and pure vessel can receive the Christ. Thus within her is the culmination of the Old written Law of Isreal, because that structure allowed the Christ to manifest

>>40942507
>Christ to manifest
In the flesh to clarify

>>40942507
And as John said, “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.’, water must come to receive fire. That purest original water is Sophia

>>40942385
You're not wrong that Jesus and the apostles were Jewish by birth and religious background. No serious scholar or historian would deny that. But being Jewish in 1st-century Judea didn’t mean what modern people often assume. Jesus consistently challenged the religious structures of his day, and his teachings broke with temple-centric legalism. After the resurrection, the movement he founded became universal and not bound by ethnicity or Jewish law.

Paul himself, while ethnically Jewish, called all his past religious achievements "rubbish" (Phil. 3:8) compared to knowing Christ. The early Church gradually became a distinct entity, not Judaism 2.0, but something radically new. That’s why Paul fought to keep Gentiles from being forced to adopt Jewish customs like circumcision (Acts 15).

So while yes, Jesus and the apostles were Jewish, Christianity itself, rooted in Christ, is not dependent on Jewish identity. The gospel is for all, and its power isn't tied to any race, nation, or lineage.

If you say, "God cannot be described in human terms," what are you doing? Using human terms to describe God.

Saying "God is indescribable" is itself a description. Saying "God is unknowable" is a claim to know something about God.

This is self-defeating. It's like saying, "I can’t speak a word of English." A self-refuting claim cannot form the basis of theology.

The Bible repeatedly makes positive statements about God. If apophatic theology were valid, these would be misleading or even heretical.

The entire Biblical revelation is cataphatic. It speaks about God, not only what He is not, but what He is.

Apophatic theology implies that God’s self-revelation in scripture and in Christ is insufficient or misleading.

If God is so utterly unknowable, why reveal anything at all? Apophatic theology denies the point of revelation, that God made Himself known to us.

Apophatic theology is rooted in Neoplatonism, not Christianity. It aligns more with the idea of an ineffable One (Plotinus) than with the personal God who walked with Adam, etc.

Apophatic theology often masquerades as humility: "We’re not arrogant enough to define God."

But in practice, it becomes a way to avoid doctrinal clarity and evade hard theological questions.

info on philadelphia?

>>40942661
Augustine distorted both Scripture and Neoplatonism in trying to fuse them.

It took generations, and guys like Van Til and Bavinck, to begin uncorrupting the theological framework he passed down.

>>40942661
I understand your concerns but this is not what we believe
When we say that "God is Good", by applying a name to God we limit him, but if we don't we have to say "God is not Good" and that can't be right either, so we reconcile the two by saying "God is Above-Good", that way we can both affirm Goodness as being part of God yet not limit God
>Apophatic theology is rooted in Neoplatonism, not Christianity. It aligns more with the idea of an ineffable One (Plotinus) than with the personal God who walked with Adam, etc.
This is a false dichotomy, the God of the Neoplatonists isn't some far off entity, every page of Iamblichus is about how the closest thing to God is actually the simplest of simple bodies, and the God of the Bible isn't some big man in the sky, he also identifies himself with Being, Asher Eheyeh, and is transcendent, no one has seen him face to face
>>40942702
You mean the Philadelphian Society?

>>40942731
Was hoping for interests specific to the physical city, apologies if the wrong place to ask. The Philadelphian Society to Böhme is enough to keep me busy for a year, thanks for that.

>>40942731
Thanks, but your response actually highlights the core problem with apophatic theology and its Neoplatonic roots.

Saying "God is Above Good" still imposes a human concept. It does not avoid limitation. It just replaces clear terms with abstraction. The Bible does not hedge like that. It says plainly, God is good. That is not a limitation. It is how God chose to reveal Himself.

The idea that calling God "good" diminishes Him is not a biblical concern. It is a Neoplatonic one. God does not need philosophical filters or semantic gymnastics. He speaks clearly and consistently in Scripture.

Your defense of Neoplatonism is off base. Pointing to Iamblichus and "simple bodies" misses the point entirely. The Neoplatonic One is impersonal, ineffable, and non-relational. That is nothing like the God who walked with Adam and made a covenant with Abraham.

That is the key distinction. The Christian God reveals Himself, enters history, commands, judges, saves, and speaks. The Neoplatonic One does none of this. It is a metaphysical abstraction, not a personal being.

Yes, God is transcendent. But in Scripture, transcendence never cancels His personal nature or relational nearness. Apophatic theology erases this tension and replaces it with detached abstraction.

So no, this is not a false dichotomy. It is the difference between a personal, self-revealing God and a formless philosophical concept. Between biblical theology and speculative metaphysics. Between Christianity and Neoplatonism.

Apophatic theology, especially in its more Neoplatonic forms, tends to treat God as an abstract essence, a metaphysical absolute, or the Ground of Being, rather than as a conscious, personal agent. The result is that God starts to sound more like a force or a quality (like "infinity" or "unity") than a living God who speaks, wills, loves, judges, and acts.

This is the distortion: when you reduce God to sheer abstraction, "beyond being," "beyond knowing," "above goodness", you start talking about something, but it’s no longer clear you’re talking about someone.

The irony of apophatic theology is that it claims to honor God’s greatness by denying all affirmations, then leaves us with a "God" almost indistinguishable from nothing at all.

>>40942965
It's almost like atheism with a halo on it.

>>40941451
The Church he is talking about and the Church as a human institution we know nowadays are two different things.

>>40942915
You are confusing the use of language with limiting God, by saying God is Above Good, we just say that, well, God is both Good yet that doesn't truly capture him fully, as it should be, this was we are just being humble and accepting the limits of the human mind, we can know some, not all, in relation to God
I know that the God of the Bible is more "attractive", but without "Apophaticism" then our God is a limited being, not the unlimited giver of being, this is like what Cologero (R.I.P) said, those who go against the Pagan influence of Philosophy in Christianity end up with a big man with a long beird in the sky, they turn the God of the Bible into the popular image of Zeus
Your defense of Neoplatonism is off base. Pointing to Iamblichus and "simple bodies" misses the point entirely. The Neoplatonic One is impersonal, ineffable, and non-relational. That is nothing like the God who walked with Adam and made a covenant with Abraham.
The God of the Platonists is also the Zeus who fought the Titans and the father of Herakles, things are always more complex, Iamblichus explains that theurgy uses talismans and the like, because those lowest elements are closeat to the One, because the they partake in the One's being, the One is also Immanent for them
So in the end we have to say, God is both Transcendent and Immanent, and if you claim that God is Transcendent, then he necessarily has to Tracend his own Transcendce, becoming radically Immanent
>>40942935
>>40942965
Yes again, God is both, that's why Jesus is the God-Man, in him he unites God and creation

>>40944332
>two different things.

You cannot separate “the Church Christ founded” from “the Church that exists today.” That would mean that Christ failed to preserve His Body which contradicts His own promise that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).

May Christ come and judge the earth and harvest amen.

>>40942432
It's because in Nazareth, when Saint Gabriel announced the Incarnation of the Word to her, she said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; be it done unto me according to thy word."
Because at Cana the stewards came to her about the lack of wine, and at her request our Savior performed His first public miracle. Her reply to the stewards was, "Do whatever He says."
Because as He was about to die on the Cross, He told His Beloved Disciple, "Behold thy mother."
Because I know her as the Terrestrial Paradise upon the summit of the mountain of my heart, the Tabernacle of the Lord.
Personally, that is why I regard her as my own mother, and I give her greater honor than to any other creature, precisely to the extent that I keep the commandments of Christ.

>>40918860 (OP)
>Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
Wtf, Paul is saying I have no game?

>>40945183
The body doesn’t have to exist in any earthly institution, and it doesn’t since any earthly institution can’t contain it, His body lives among people

>>40944837
Thanks for your response, but it misunderstands both my critique and the theological stakes.

This isn’t about denying mystery or limiting God. It’s about whether we build our understanding of God on His self-revelation in Scripture or on abstract metaphysics rooted in Neoplatonism and Guénonian Traditionalism, as found in the writings of Cologero at Gornahoor.

Saying “God is above good” may sound like humility, but it dismisses how God has described Himself. Scripture says plainly, “God is good” (Psalm 100:5). That is not a human projection. It is revealed truth. Apophatic theology treats such affirmations as inadequate or misleading, but Scripture does not. It uses clear language. God is righteous, just, merciful, holy. He speaks, acts, commands, and relates.

Guénonian Traditionalist metaphysics tends to blur these truths by reducing God to an abstract principle like “the One” or “the Ground of Being.” That shifts our focus from someone to something, from the living God to a metaphysical absolute lacking personality, relationship, and moral will. It turns I AM into IT IS.

You also claimed that the “God of the Platonists is Zeus.” But these are radically different concepts. The Platonic One is an impersonal metaphysical source. Zeus is a personal, sovereign deity. Collapsing the two only creates confusion and highlights how Guénonian thought tends to merge distinct systems into a single metaphysical framework, often at the cost of clarity and coherence.

Yes, God is transcendent. But in Scripture, that never cancels His nearness or His clarity. One leads to faith. The other to confusion dressed up as depth.

>>40947858
st james

>>40948010
If it's about wether we build our understanding of God on Scripture or Philosophy, then i have to say, why not both
The entire Christian tradition is the union of those two, from the earliest moments, Pope Clement and Ignatius of Antioch used Stoic terminology and many like Pantaenus and Justin Martyr converted from Stoicism and Platonism respectively to Christianity, every great theologian was in one way or another a Platonist, going against those influences is like going against the Old Testament by this point
Also i'm not a Guenonian
And the One = Zeus thing isn't from me or Guenon, it's from Gemistos Plethon

>>40948121
> And the One = Zeus thing isn't from me or Guenon, it's from Gemistos Plethon
I mean isn’t it like being a shaivite or vaishnavite? It seems clearly to me that Plethon worships the One under the Jupiterian current

>>40948199
Plethon lived in Late Medieval post-Latin Kingdoms Morea, his worldview is influenced by the Platonic tradition of "his forefathers", and the Christianity he lived in but rejected, so his One is the Christian God but Pagan in character, like Iamblichus and Proclus a millennia before him, his holy books are Plato, Homer and Hesiod

>>40948225
I don’t see how that is mutually exclusive to what I said, it’s just logical that if he says Zeus = the One he focuses on the One through a Zeus lens

>>40948121
The question is not whether Christians can use philosophy, but whether philosophy defines our theology. The Church Fathers used philosophical language when it served the Gospel, but they did not treat Greek metaphysics as sacred. Scripture was always the source, not Plato.

You compare rejecting Greek influence to rejecting the Old Testament, as if Christian theology rests equally on both. That analogy fails. The Old Testament is divine revelation. Greek philosophy is not. One is the history of God’s covenant with His people. The other is the product of speculation. Elevating Platonism to scriptural status confuses categories and blurs the line between revelation and human theory.

No one denies that Christian thinkers interacted with philosophical traditions. But they were not passive recipients. They critiqued, corrected, and redefined those ideas in light of what God has revealed. The moment philosophy starts shaping our view of God in ways that contradict His self-disclosure, it ceases to be a help.

Your appeal to Plethon’s claim that the One is Zeus only shows how fluid and unstable these philosophical systems are. That kind of synthesis is exactly why Christian theology must remain anchored in the God who acts, speaks, and reveals, not in abstractions that can be molded into anything.

Talk of God transcending transcendence might sound deep, but it collapses under scrutiny. Scripture presents no such contradiction. God is high and lifted up, yet near to the brokenhearted. Transcendence and presence are not philosophical riddles to be solved, but revealed truths to be received.

This is not about rejecting tradition. It is about keeping theology rooted in the Word, not in systems that drift away from the living God of Scripture.

>>40918860 (OP)
I think rationalistic theology is futile, and I emphasise understanding via practice that will inevitably be destroyed via further understanding via practice

>>40948279
Yeah i am not disagreeing with you
>>40948283
Honestly depending on the Church Father Philosophy might as well be part of the Bible, Clement of Alexandria for example saw it as a Second Old Testament, being God's revelation to the Prophetless Pagans, and Justin Martyr wrote about how the Logos has always appeared to all Mankind even before the birth of Jesus
But yeah the Gospel trumps it, that's why we don't say the world is eternal or that a Demiurge made it
But again, i see no contradiction between seeing both as both Transcendent and Immanent, that's the God of Dionysius the Areopagite, and its both the Platonic One and the Christian God