Thread 40933819

What do we think about psychedelic realms?
I've read many trip reports and consumed other media about it. Many claim they break into this familiar realm, there are entities there who know you, and you know them - in fact you having forgotten them is something mindboggling, as you've known each other for eternity.

Others live alternative lives for decades, like an actual life with working, shitting, having a family. Others experience things that language fail to describe.

When smoking Salvia for example, its common for people to describe zippers, being zippers, zippers opening and showing other dimensions. There are also elves and factories where they are being stretched and squished.

DMT is the most powerful and the strangest according to testimonies. Where unlike hallucinations or dreams, everything is totally different, there's nothing on Earth in our lives and minds that can prepare you for what you experience on a "breakthrough dose". A totally utter miraculous and divine alien event. And like other psychedelics, entities are waiting for you, entities you know and love.

I find the things they experience and are told, much more likely and novel than the things described in any religious text, no matter how esoteric. The closest things come from Buddhism, like the book of the dead, or enlightenment experiences where they gain 360 vision, unity and clarity etc.

Another interesting and uncommon experience is breaking through into a realm, where there are entities who weren't expecting you, like you broke into another persons home. They are annoyed and will ask you, or force you to leave.

And mantids examining you and performing high dimensional energy surgery and turnups.

>>40933819 (OP)
>The closest things come from Buddhism
tell more

What about all the colors? From where do the colors come from?

>>40933870
There was or is use of psychoactive plants in Tibetan Buddhism. It shows up in their artwork, with mandalas, other realms being common motifs in psychedelic experiences. The Tibetan book of the dead is more or less a guide on how to avoid rebirth, I recommend you watch a video or something about it. Unless you want to read the book.

>>40933881
I know right, like colors we can't even describe.

>>40933819 (OP)
Psychedelics are like running a hacked ROM on your brain, they let you perceive, feel, and think differently than without them.
However, they are also always a brute force tool, and the same effects can be achieved with diet, exercise, and meditation, and this path usually leads to sustainable and stable "cognitive upgrades", in contrast to psychedelics, which always scramble your conscious and subconscious mind severely.

Kind of like the difference between trying to jalbreak an iPhone 15 and installing Linux on a PC from the 00s, the former is a lot harder and you really need to know what you're doing, be up to date on Apple's bullshit and all the semiconductor manufacturing shittery and all that, while the latter is well-documented literally everywhere on the internet and even Wikipedia tells you more than you need to know.
However, this also reveals the pitfalls of relying on either approach exclusively:
Relying only on psychedelics means you end up with a high-tech phone/brain but might have no fucking clue what it does, why it does what it does, and how to use it reliably, while relying only on old and well-established hardware and software -- brain and mind -- might leave you unable to comprehend the environments you find yourself in, because you lack the necessary interfaces.

>>40933819 (OP)
>What do we think about psychedelic realms?
Whenever I take a strong trip I always have to confront my fear of death, and darkness, decay, god, myself, the world. Its basically becoming aware of the fallen state of mankind, knowing that to unfall, basically means the material self has to either by spiritualized somehow, or for it to die. I don't know how to spiritualize it sufficiently not to die, and so the thought then goes to perhaps children can inherit the path I have walked and fulfill it in the future.
Its pretty scary for me, because I know certain things on a soul level regarding my identify in relation to the history of creation, and the responsibilities that identify compels me to face. Its rough. Basically, it feels a bit like being an angel, and you are the only one who remembers what that actually means to existence, and that if you fail, everything you care about will die in the end, yourself included.

>>40933926
>the same effects can be achieved with diet, exercise, and meditation
What do you base that on? I haven't stumbled upon anything like what people describe or draw(see pics ITT).

>>40933969
yea it seems like psychedelics break down the walls of the cultural/mental maze and lets us see whats important and right. life has an incredible ability to regenerate and that applies to humanity, trust.

>>40933881
>What about all the colors? From where do the colors come from?
Your mind. Same as the color magenta or purple. Those colors do not exist in reality, we think they do, because we see them. But reality is humans are the only creatures that we know of who can see it. Every other living creature can't see those colors.
Purple is just red + blue. But our mind can't pick up on that, so our mind invents a new color to make sense of the conflicting wavelengths.

Which brings me to OP's question:>>40933819 (OP)
>"What do we think of psychedelic realms?"

It all come from the mind.

>>40934009
But these things are seen in complete darkness, and when the eyes are closed, its not a photoreceptor thing.

If its from the mind, why is it so strange? there's nothing like it on Earth, nothing prepares you.

>>40933819 (OP)
>>40934009
So yes, psychedelics are all a mind-thing. I've done them before plenty, I know the temptation to get lost in esoteric explanation is very intense, the experience feels exactly like going to a different 'realm'. But you're not going to different realms. If you were to film a guy on salvia or DMT and show the footage back to him, he would hit a cognitive dissonance barrier. Because he would be convinced he was not on Earth, he was chatting to clockwork machine elves or some shit. But reality would show he was on a sofa, staring at a ceiling with his eyes rolling back or looking around the room in a stupor.

>>40934019
But isn't it more fun to think its real?

>>40934014
>But these things are seen in complete darkness, and when the eyes are closed, its not a photoreceptor thing.

Doesn't matter. Go think of a purple elephant right now. Notice how your mind can still generate the color without seeing it? It's because the mind can remember/think of things it's seen before.

And every psychedelic realm or entity is something the human has experienced before. They just don't know that because they don't make the connection between the psychedelic and life itself. For example: Let's say you meet a mean and angry entity on a trip. Ask yourself: have you met an angry and mean human before? Yes you have. So what the 'entity' is, it's just a repressed archetype that you've already known existed. Just given a sense of life in the trip due to the mind going into synesthesia.

>>40933988
>What do you base that on? I haven't stumbled upon anything like what people describe or draw(see pics ITT).
Schizophrenia and psychosis express themselves differently in indigenous populations; the hallucinations are often benevolent.
Further, obviously different ethnicities have different gut biomes, and 90% of serotonin (one of the, if not literally the, most important neurotransmitters in perception and learning) production happens in response to nutrition; however, obviously no society can consist of only schizo shamans, which is where the
>wise old
archetype comes in; consistent diet and exercise conditions the brain just as much as a psychedelic experience disrupts conditioning. In both cases the process is incomprehensible from the inside -- no one can reliably judge how their thinking changed from 20 years ago to now, because we cannot record thoughts and perception, only bodily expression; the inner world is always isolated, which means you categorically cannot say how much of what you perceive is hallucination you got used to and how much is genuine new stimuli. That's also why social isolation leads to hallucinations and delusional interpretation of perceived patterns.

In short, the brain first and foremost exists to communicate to other humans whether what you eat and do is subjectively good for you or not, and the purpose of communicating this is for the proliferation of the species, via genetics (if you survive strange food you might get to fuck) and memetics (if you tell cool stories they will get repeated), that's why Zen Buddhism is such a reliable shortcut to enlightenment.

>>40934026
>But isn't it more fun to think it's real?
Yes absolutely. And in a sense, it is real. But it's only half-real. It's only the mind. Reality is a cooperation between mind & matter, between the psyche landscape of our minds & the world outside our brains.

What makes them exciting is it blurs the line between the mind and the universe and calls into question how much do we actually know about what exists.

For example, humans had no idea gamma rays or x-rays existed once upon a time. Because we could not see them, we needed to create instruments to see them.

So it begs the question: what else is there that exists that we cannot see yet exists outside of our perception? We don't know. Could be anything. Angels, demons, extra dimensional ayy lmao aliens. anything.

>>40934027
But these have colors never been seen or imagined before. They can't be replicated or explained. Your explanation isn't making sense to me.
>every psychedelic realm or entity is something the human has experienced before
Could be. I just find it strange that unrelated people with no knowledge of the effects of psychedelics experience the same stuff. So either these chemicals tap into the same unconscious archetypical content, or they must be real.

>>40934039
>So either these chemicals tap into the same unconscious archetypical content, or they must be real.
Have you considered that the literal structure of the chemicals has deterministic effects on a human body, and different humans experience comparable trips on the same drug because they all have human brains and are taking the same drug?
As in, the very fact that you, as an English speaking internet user, exist in this world in a specific way means that everyone who can understand you would have experiences on psychedelics that are comparable to your experiences if you took the same psychedelics, precisely because you already share a structural cognitive "archetype" -- English-speaking internet user.
Cause like, I've considered it and it seems to make a lot of sense to me. Just super-saiyan.

>>40934039
I've not seen a new color on a psychedelic trip, have you? I saw every spectrum of strobing iridescent colors flashing and moving. Oranges, reds, blues, greens, purples, etc. outside of those I never saw anything I couldnt also see in real life if I looked hard enough.

>So either these chemicals tap into the same unconscious archetypical content, or they must be real.

If it's the former then it's real, and would be evidence to support 'genetic memory' or collective consciousness theory.

I know one trip story that sort of proved that lol.

Dude who did lots of shrooms, then played smash Bros melee. He chose Captain falcon while he played. He never chose that character before. He felt compelled to do that. As he played, he hallucinated he was not playing as a humanoid video game character, but a dragon. He was convinced he was a dragon, ferociously beating down the enemy characters. He got super into it.

Anyway it turned out that character model for Captain falcon was the first game asset the developers made. It existed in the prototype of the game. The name of Smash bros melee before it became a full game was called "Dragon King".

Somehow the shroomheaded video game player was able to perceive that archetypical creative signature in the game design. He didn't even know about the game's history or lore yet the psychedelics allowed him to see that

>>40933819 (OP)
I know this sounds edgy but I have massive grievances with God. The older I get, the more I dislike the creator. Will taking DMT/psychedelic substances allow me to see why the creator thinks it is appropriate to inflict massive amounts of suffering on sentient beings?

>>40934078
You'll just learn that humans inflict massive suffering in themselves. And that the creator has a heavy heart knowing that you do that to yourself + blame Him for it. Same as how a father who loves his son allows his son to have his own life and to make decisions for himself, out of love and respect and not wishing to control his own son like a tyrant. Yet the son makes mistakes and gets himself hurt and all the father can do is weep.

>>40934078
Yea do 5g of dried mushrooms or smoke enough DMT and you might meet God.

There are trip reports where people ask these questions, and they all basically say we're doing important work on Earth and that we are surrounded by friends all the time. As to the ecological state of Earth, well these beings can create and destroy entire universes instantly. Earth is a stage to them, and we think its real.

>>40934090
I would buy that but God is not just a dad. He creates everything. He is responsible for the conditions, personalities, wants and wills of every person and knows exactly what they will do from the second he makes them and still lets them loose on the world even if they are going to cause untold amounts of suffering. God is also personally responsible for every single natural evil that has happened because they are all, without fail, outside of humanities control.

>>40934098
Seems like a weak reason but maybe it makes more sense from outside a human perspective. Even with that reason God still is at fault for massive evils inflicted upon sentience. He could have finished this important work himself, instantly, with 0 suffering, if he so willed and yet he doesn't. Seems insane but I realize I am but a man and my perspective goes so far as my intellect allows but the overwhelming conclusion I draw from this world is that God is a tyrant, a maniac and a despot with the sole aim of inflicting pain and suffering for his own enjoyment.

I like these realms, it's a nice hum to flow with, but not my ideal state of being, but they can be very centering and humbling.

God(s) come in many ways to many Beings because there are many.

>>40934100
>God is not just a dad
True but still a father.

>He is responsible for the conditions, personalities, wants and wills of every person and knows exactly what they will do from the second he makes them and still lets them loose on the world even if they are going to cause untold amounts of suffering.

I have a child on the way myself. I'm an expectant father. I chose to share in co-creation of life with God. Let me tell you something: I already know for a fact my son or daughter is going to fail. I already lay in bed and daydream of their life, who they may be or not be. Who they will become. What will they do? How will they navigate life? Will they do good or evil? I already know they will do both. My child does not exist yet, all it does right now is move around and kick at the placenta wall inside my wife. It does not even know I exist. It does not even conceive that I not only know, I know of it's future. I know it will fall and fail and do bad, but I also know it will stride and succeed and do good. It also doesn't know that I already predetermined that I will always love and forgive it, because that's my child.

God does the exact same. In fact He is where we got that from.

How Hylic am I, when (1V)-LSD, Psilocybe Cubensis, Salivia Divinorum, Ketamine and N2O distorted my Perception and brought me on funny ways to think and see, but never to another realm?
The two most intense trips I had were 35 capsules of DXM, which felt like traveling back in time, and, I shit you not, totally unexpected an afterwork hit from my bong, from where I came a bit nearer to the understanding of what Om and Odem (an old German word for (life-)breath) means.
But most of the time, tripping is just a fun time with not that many insights for me.

>>40934114
I hope you find peace on your journey.

>>40934116
means you're doing too many drugs and not enough useful real world things like art or work or exercise or eating healthy but you're still young enough for it to not fuck you up too bad
source: was very much like that until a few years ago when I turned 35

>>40934116
Not everyone experiences realms and entities. But those who do take a lot, 5 dried grams of potent shrooms, 3 big tokes of DMT or high concentrations of salvia. Some see stuff on nitrous and xenon.

>>40934114
I think you're missing the point. You're making God a powerful human akin to a programmer creating AI, not an all knowing all powerful everything. If God knows exactly what you're going to do, knows the suffering you're going to inflict and receive and could and at no effort on his part fix that before you were even put here then maybe he should have. Maybe I just need to accept God pure evil, I have a hard time doing so.

>>40933819 (OP)
They sound like a horror, and I don't understand why anyone would subject themselves to that. The worlds I've explored through AP were Earthlike, and their denizens humanlike, although both idealized.

>>40934124
Wrong as fuck. I have a fulfilling job, relationship to my wife and kids, and people are cheering on my performances. I am 35 now, lift heavier than all of my friends (but DYEL for /fit/ standards). I have done a huge amount of drugs, but stretched over a timeframe of 16 years, and never had issues to stop it for a while when I felt it would be better.
>>40934128
Maybe I was too cautious all the time, yes. I dont think high of heroic doses and have seen enough people frying their brains this way.

>>40934130
>If God knows exactly what you're going to do, knows the suffering you're going to inflict and receive and could and at no effort on his part fix that before you were even put here then maybe he should have.

I am not missing the point. The point I make is I already know my child will falter and do evil as well as succeed and do good. I knew this before knocking my wife up, and I know it as it lays in the womb. I knew this and could have prevented this life from happening by not getting my wife pregnant. Am I evil?

If the answer is no, then neither is God. If the answer is yes, then sure, you can consider God evil. But be aware of that. Because the next task at hand is to take His place and to try and eliminate evil where He could not. Those who try become evil. Because what they do to 'fix' evil is to kill and murder and maim and destroy. They lose the ability to forgive.

Stare at an abyss long enough, and you know the rest etc.

>>40934148
>Am I evil
You certainly are selfish for bringing a child into the world knowing this place is as bad as it is and bear a large part of responsibility for the suffering your child will suffer and the suffering that it will inflict on others, but you already know that. You do not bare the full responsibility because you cannot know and are not responsible for the qualities that child possess, that is on God because he creates those and willingly sends that here. He could send Jesus 2.0 every time a child is conceived, at 0 effort, but he doesn't because he is evil and wants sentience to suffer. And yes, replacement of God seems logical but that would require powers beyond the flesh and unfortunately those aren't given out to flesh and blood.

>>40934146
>enough people frying their brains this way
spoken like a true retard. Let me guess, you seen the cooked eggs fall out their ears?

>>40934114
I wish you the best. You will too become someone new in the process, and thus also make good decisions as well as mistakes.
Alway listen to what your heart tells, youself will know best.

>>40934162
Selfish? Maybe. Or maybe if I wanted to be selfish, I'd just have not bothered have a child. Maybe I'd have just kept using the woman for the sake of pleasure's sake. Maybe just live to satisfy my urges and my sensational whims, whether it's for money or for pleasure. After all, a child gets in the way of this for me, no?

Maybe it's actually selfless to have a child. Because the father sacrifices himself so the child may live, may experience joy, love, peace. Focus on that word there: sacrifice. Take a wild guess what jesus elected to do, and you got your answer. You will know God in an instant without needing DMT

>>40934009
What about the peacock mantis shrimp? These guys have more color cones in their eyes than humans, so this teal color looks to them like a rainbow made of colors we can't even imagine, and the gals pick the most colorful one to mate with so the next generation gets more ridiculous.

>>40934198
Its the selfish need to reproduce, everyone has it, stop trying to pull the wool over my eyes, I feel it to. Holy men swear to celibacy for a reason, as it is part of denying your needs and wants for something higher than yourself. Spin it however you want to make yourself feel better and absolve yourself of responsibility for the suffering you are now a cause of, but reproduction is not selfless. Reproduction is probably the singular most selfish act a person can take part in as it is satisfying the need for pleasure, connection, company, power and historically you get back the care you give in early life when you are incapable of caring for yourself. You are deluded if you think reproduction is selfless, it never has been from a spiritual standpoint and it never has been from an evolutionary standpoint.

>>40934179
No, some developed tics that either werent there before or worsened pretty much, some became more and more violent until they were too dangerous for the people near them, some couldnt feel happiness anymore, some became permanently estranged from our "normal" world and couldnt accept its rules anymore, so they lost more and more connections to society and close ones (which I deem bad, as man is a social being)
There is danger in taking drugs, otherwise they couldnt be mighty tools; a soft hammer wont hurt you, but it wont put any nails in the wall, either. But I give you it was never psychedelics alone, and most of the time amphetamine played a role.

>>40934211
>Holy men swear to celibacy for a reason
Yet Saint Peter had a wife. As did many saints before and after him.

Murder is the most selfish act a person can take part in. Because to kill is to deny someone else's existence because you said so.

Think on it some more.

>>40934210
Peacock mantis shrimp are psychedelics with legs that's why

>>40934219
And thousands if not millions did swear to celibacy, across religions. You're asking me to prove a negative here if you want to do some comparison between which is more selfish, I think having a child is a lot more, but they are different sides to the same coin. Both are highly selfish acts.

>>40934242
Anon, listen to yourself. Please. The next time you witness a happy family, a man and a woman taking their kids to a play park to watch them have fun and laugh and make joy. Remind yourself that you consider that as the same as a brutal murder. Why?

>>40934245
Now you are twisting my words. I said I consider it more selfish. It is selfish to remove life from this world and it is selfish to bring life into this world (selfish at the opposite ends of the spectrum, life/death) to fulfill your evolutionary desires. Remember you are responsible for your coming child's suffering, you and God co-created every iota of it.

>>40933819 (OP)
The DMT realm, with fractal beings - I think that's the lower "rung" of the spiritual plane, where the souls of animals reside. The bouncing fractal spirits that come running to greet us are the souls of our deceased pets, who recognize us. I believe that's where we get our bearings, and our pets guide us onward from there.

That's my hypothesis, anyway.

>>40934009
>It all come from the mind.
"The All is Mind. The Universe is Mental"

Everyone should grow familiar with the 7 Hermetic Principles. It helps me process thoughts and see things from new perspectives on a daily basis. It helps during psychedelic experiences, and in dreams. You will better yourself by familiarizing yourself with these principles. The Kybalion goes over them in detail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kybalion

Pic related

>>40934078
Yes it can fix those grievances, but if you have grievances to begin with about topics like loss/gain evil/good etc. it will most likely just show you some super horrible stuff. You then either dramatically change yourself or you break from the after-effects of the trip.
>>40934107
Small hint: Without suffering, pleasure and bliss can't exist. We would all still be in the godhead experiencing nothingness. Maybe this gives you a new perspective to think about.

>>40933819 (OP)
DMT is the gateway to the absolute.

>>40933819 (OP)
Did so many shrooms i thought I died and now I got ptsd. Psilocybin azuresence 3.5 g

>>40935942
Like for real or did you just have a horrible experience? I've read trip-reports where people were sure they died. Shocking either way.

>>40935942
I feel you man. DMT took me to a place I thought I wasn't coming back from. You're not alone.

>>40934074
Meds. Everyone sees dragons in trips; hyperbole; but it's really common it's become a trope. Falcon mans model isnt a dragon, and a dragon itself has no archetypical creative signature on a fighting game unrelated to it; for simple fact of a title beings its name.

>>40934250
St Paul said any religion that requires its adherents to be celibate is a doctrine of the devil. You're just rambling bullshit lies man.

>>40936460
So why did millions of Christians practice celibacy?
>inb4 no true Scotsman bullshit argument.
They were just practicing the wrong form of Christianity right?

>>40933819 (OP)
gallimore's new book just dropped

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/217387677-death-by-astonishment

>>40936987
Christians weren't required. Theres literally nowhere in catholic or protestant/nondenominational teachings that tells adherents to be celibate. Its not selfish or sinful.

>>40933827
I've not done DMT (kind of preparing myself to later this year) but I've heard stories from other that sometimes the entities will flat out deny entry to their realm. One story I was told from guy who smoked some and was confronted with Gate like entities similar to that of those stone statues in Lord of the Rings, telling him that "the vessel is not pure" and shot him right back to our reality. He spent a year carving and widling a pipe from a branch he found of some significance and then They finally let him in

>>40933819 (OP)
Hey friend. I am also very interested in this topic. I have mixed feelings on what the psychedelic experiences truly are. Different psychedelics can you give you wildly different experiences, and the same thing happens with NDEs. Even deep meditation can take you to these "realms". I recently checked a forum for bipolar people and found out that during manic states (probably extreme psychotic ones), people experienced similar things to those of psychedelic trips. A woman became convinced she was God's mistress. Another man thought God told him everything about the universe and he started writing and making figures about the structure of the universe frantically. He was bewildered when he snapped out of his mania. He posted his writings too, it was crazy stuff. There was also a person who was shown that Earth is a farm and that aliens make people reincarnate over and over in order to feed from our negative emotions. The latter is also something some people have experienced during psychedelic trips, a different variation from the "aliens are lovely and have met us since forever, they're our true home" experience.
Despite all the differences between these experiences, everyone who goes through them becomes convinced that they were real and that they had experienced a fundamental truth about how the universe and reality works. But what is the truth, then? Outside of the generic "we're all one" and "love is the most important thing", it's all vague as fuck.
Personally, I think Jung was right about the collective unconscious, and what people are experiencing during altered states of consciousness is a dive into this collective unconscious. The difference in experiences might be explained by the fact that the minds of all individuals are wildly diverse, as well as their beliefs. For example, a woman during a DMT experience said she saw Satan. Does that mean Satan is real, or did the collective unconscious of millions of Christians create him?

It shows us there are spaces outside of time.

>>40940188
>Does that mean Satan is real, or did the collective unconscious of millions of Christians create him?

Satan is an archetype that pops up in numerous cultures over time. He represents chaos and entropy.

>>40935541
>Without suffering, pleasure and bliss can't exist. We would all still be in the godhead experiencing nothingness

I'm good with this. Suffering is experienced because bliss is impermanent. We keep reincarnating because we want to experience pleasure. We want to experience sexual orgasm ultimately, and that keeps it all going. .

>>40933819 (OP)
>DMT is the most powerful and the strangest according to testimonies. Where unlike hallucinations or dreams, everything is totally different, there's nothing on Earth in our lives and minds that can prepare you for what you experience on a "breakthrough dose". A totally utter miraculous and divine alien event. And like other psychedelics, entities are waiting for you, entities you know and love.
DMT entities are connected to UFOs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2RQsVuWRaw
https://qualiacomputing.com/2023/08/11/are-dmt-entities-and-ufos-connected-robin-hanson-alien-politics-and-subagentic-structures/

>>40941711
I would still suggest you try accepting that it was your choice to live like this and give life a chance. Being angry at basic facts about reality is pointless.

>>40941718
I've done LSD thrice. First time I know I saw a UFO briefly poke out from behind an apartment tower. I think all psychedelics at high doses are connected to aliens one way or another