Thread 40941410

Why the fuck do conservatives like to call anything they don’t like ‘gnostic’, even things that are quite literally the opposite of ‘gnostic’.

Like seriously? Marxism, gnostic? Jehovah’s Witness is somehow also Gnostic? Wtf?

>>40941410 (OP)
Because modern conservatism, is not conservatism. Its a larp. Conservatism is supposed to be about compassion and egalitarianism. It should be a mode of political discourse rooted in using the best aspects of the past (religion, democratic-republicanism, harmony, tradition) to create a brighter future.
Modernly, conservatism is based in none of these things. It claims to want to uphold traditions, but it actually seeks to abolish them in favor of installing false ones and destroying religion, in order to promote worship of the state.
They call everything "gnostic" for the same reason they call everything "satanic" or "pagan". They have no concept of legitimate spirituality, nor do they want to.

>>40941410 (OP)
>call anything they don’t like ‘gnostic’
Because when talking religion or spirituality we tend to deal in absolutes. This is it. Its all set and it wont change no matter what. This is not exclusive to christianity or the west. Eastern traditions also teach about the difference between verified and speculative knowledge. The thing is, again, when dealing with spiritual or religious matters, we treat them as revealed truths which admit no reply, contestation, speculative interpretative answers. Gnosis would fall into speculation or the search for a knowledge we do not possess which is at odds with, you guessed it, divine revealed knowledge
So, in short, speculation in spiritual truths would be an offense. A blasphemy. The idea that God hasnt revealed to us the supreme knowledge already or that this knowledge is not prefect and complete
This is why masons are gay and satanic.

>>40943839
This and well said

>>40941410 (OP)
Only James "woke right" Lindsay does this

>>40941410 (OP)
I've never seen anyone call something gnostic outside of videos about gnosticism and /x/.

>>40941410 (OP)
>Like seriously? Marxism, gnostic?
Yes https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-gnostic-heresys-political-successors.html
Read Voegelin.

>>40943970
Lucifer the Morning Star. What do you do in the morning? You wake up. Woke.
[taps head]

What's ridiculous is blaming the group for the thoughts of one of it's adherents even in this day and age wherein false flags can be flown by any willing. You wouldn't happen to know any willingly making semantic errors would you? How very in-group of you.

>>40941410 (OP)
>conservatives did this!
You’re a brainwashed idiot those aren’t conservatives they’re agents muddying the waters wherever they go. Don’t ever post here again with your childish bullshit about politics.

>>40941410 (OP)
Christians have a trick of projecting onto others

Christianity itself is Gnostic. In Christianity, Satan is already like Ahriman in Zoroastrianism, and not a force subservient to God as in the Old Testament. Christians also believe that the world is corrupted (not by God, but by people themselves).

This is Gnosticism

>>40944906
>Christianity itself is Gnostic
false

entire post discarded

>>40944906
>muddying the waters exhibit A

>>40941410 (OP)
I think it started with Voegelin. It’s a very gay, unimaginative term. What they actually mean is something like “immanentism”; marxists, wokeists, trannies, etc, all want relocate the transcendent into temporal structures (ie immanentize it). For the trannies, basic biology is transcended with an appeal to emotion, while for the marxists the study of human nature is limited by ideology. Conservatives see this and go “hurr you know who else denied matter? The gnostics!”.

>>40944671
this. Voegelin is underrated as hell.

>>40944906
This post is right, but its right in the WRONG ways.
Christianity, real Christianity, is infact gnostic. The nicene council labelled all the older christian traditions as gnostic heresies.
Christianity by nature came out of the gnostic tradition.
Gnosticism was not, always, christian. Rather it was a label generally applied to religious traditions that were Emanationist.
Emanationist religions generally taught something comparable to vedanta. God is big, god emanates out into existence, we need to become god again.
Emanationist religions had either a proto tantra (see-iamblichus or the folk judeau-pagans) or they had a system of meditation (see graecian contemplation). Sometimes, both.
Not all gnostic believe in an inherently corrupt world, but all believe in a return to god.
The gnostics were emanationist religion, they were all attempting to return to the ultimate divine form through the process of liberating insight. The christians were, specifically, a group of gnostic jews, their original famous teacher being John the Baptist. They eventually branched off from the other jews with the belief that their new teacher, yeshua, was not just prophet, but THE messiah.
Theres a good chance that he never himself taught that he was the messiah, though he likely would have claimed to be god, as this was standard in emanationist Judaism, and still is.
The reason for why christian testament contains such strange visual descriptions is for a quite literal purpose. These are descriptions of the experiences that christian mediators had during their prayer time.

>>40945678
Meditation, when done properly, causes extremely bizarre visual phenomenon at times. The christians separated themselves from the other gnostic religions by placing all phenomenon encountered during the meditation into categories of good and bad. This can still be seen in the prayer manuals of the desert fathers and some later catholic-orthodox writers.
The early Christians would he mortified to hear that the modern christian has no experience of god or the divine on average. They'd feel a pain in their soul, further, had they known that the modern christian experiences prayer as an exercise in virtue signaling.
Moving on, with regards to the meditation discernment, this was also how the syncretic early christians were able to discern good gods from bad demons. Their methodology largely taking after a similar system to the zoroastrians. With some gods being placed in the bad category simply due to prejudice (see; bacchus. Good to the rural christians, bad to the city christians).
This syncretic nature was destroyed by the nicene council, who represented roman nationalism. They created a faux Christianity that eradicated the real one.

>>40945678
and all of a sudden
for no reason at all
once the ((bible)) was written
nobody ever had spiritual experiences worth noting down nor words of wisdom a child might give such as:
don't be a meanie to others
such Christ, much wow.
also jesus IS the antichrist

>>40945710
It is such then that one may ask, what of the trinity?
We may argue a trinity existed in early christianity, yes. But this is in context, always, to the meditation and emanationist doctrine.
Jesus was revolutionary for his sect, because of three reasons;
1. he made promise that man becoming god was possible here and now. In spite of the anxieties of the others that it may be too late.
2. He promised that out of all the other religious teachers, he was the only one who could actually had the authority to help them.
3. He focused entirely on meditation, discouraging the public practices that were done solely to look virtuous to other pious people.
These three things made jesus a revolutionary figure, when compared to the other gnostic sects closely related to him, which focused primarily on public spectacle and de-spirited rituals.
For the ancient Mediterranean folk, this would be quite impressive, considering that one ebb had the nihilistic city pagans, who believed they had no control over the world, and the other end had the nihilistic city jews, who believed they were subject entirely to the whims of god.
----
Returning to the trinity, where does that land us here?
It is simple, its an extremely short form map of the emanationist theology.
1. The one, uncreated, emanates the deity (father)
2. Father emanates son (any follower who attained salvation fully- Jesus being prime example) and holy spirit (meditation phenomenon, equivalent to kundalini, it is the factor that brings "gnosis").
Thus we have a Triune and simplified representation of the end goal emanationism.
Why structure it in this way? Again, because it provides a very short form map of distinguishing good gods from bad ones, the importance of meditation. And understanding the general "end goal" of the christian religious practice.
All of which, resolving nearly, into a monolatrous-monotheist doctrine.

>>40945779
Now someone may be having their hackles raised at seeing the kundalini mentioned.
---
Kundalini in its proper context has two distinctions
(A) it refers to a goddess
(B) it covers specific meditation phenomenon, leading to liberation.
Now these two things, are not considered separate in vedanta, similarly to how they are not in early christianity. The difference here is in attribution of what god. But the phenomenon is the same.
Now, in the proper context of meditation itself, the kundalini has three ways of manifesting;
1. An extremely warm sensation of absolute joy, moving upwards through the body.
2. A sensation of a cool wetness of bliss, moving downwards through the body.
3. A sensation of otherworldly electrical rapture, pervading the entire body.
Out of these three, the second two are the ones most common to christian practice (after all, the word emanation itself means to "drip down", and the metaphors used for religious experience in Christ's testament, use alot of water metaphors).
What happens in any case, is that these sensations, destroy attachment to worldly desire, and in doing so prime the follower to return directly back to the godhead.
In the eay christian-neoplatonic discourses, this is called largely, katharsis.
In any direction, all of these phenomenon trigger the awakening of psychic phenomenon. These are the siddhis in vedanta and the charism in christianity. It is these phenomenon, which also allow for the seeing of strange visuals (flaming tongues, spirits, etc.)

>>40945838
The end result of the kundalini phenomenon is
(A) it triggers a state of meditation, which in, one feels that they are absorbed entirely into all of existence.
Vedanta considers this return to Brahman. Christianity calls it return to god, theosis.
(B) post-meditation, it allows one to see the world as being intrinsically pure, and completely beautiful, enabling a natural state of mindfulness to be maintained.
Early Christianity takes of special interest in this last one, for reasons of universal redemption, and seeing the true beauty of God's creation, fallen though it may be.
----
This we can see here, immediately, the connection between early gnostic christianity to other emanationist religions such as neoplatonism & kabbalaistic judaism. We can also see clearly the relation between the alter term in gnostic christianity of Barbelo, as comparative.
We may also begin to understand, once more, the lost information behind experiences such as teresa's, her ecstasy is made clear again. As is her and other mystic writers, who have suffered from being in a damaged and broken tradition.
----
So yes, true christianity, is gnostic. It is a visionary, emanationist religion. Whos central practice is meditation.
It would be much good if someone crafted an orthodox gnostic movement. This may well save christianity from its own damnation, since the state seems ever bent on corrupting it into worship of the nation.

>>40945899
>inb4 but all three in the trinity exist eternally
Yes.wav
Emanationism holds that, the moment you attain theosis, you have always been god. It is retrocausality in action- made by god, became god, always was god.
All angels are god, the same way all fingers are part of the same hand. Jesus is god the same way. The prime sin of christianity is to create distance oneself from god willingly.
As is such, the moment one becomes a son of god, they have always been as such.
The father (personal deity) always exists the moment it is there.
The holy spirit (meditation phenomenon) is taken as existing eternally, thus making salvation possible even for the most down trodden.
All of which, are subsumed as emanating from the uncreated god.

Someone anchored Gnostic = Bad to normalfags and now it's one of their catch-all terms like "demonic" or "racist" or "satanic" or "facist" or "nazis" or even any of their other favorite "left" or "right" words.

>>40946795 me
See how >>40943839 demonstrates this so well? Even >>40941535 (fpbp) casually explains exactly what was about to happen.

>>40941535
>the crypto-jew fears the neo-gnostic

>>40943839
Speculative knowledge admits that there isn't an entire absolute truth, simply because of broad literacy. When anything is written on paper in lingual cohesion, it will always specify as if it's absolute from the source to the reader. Most readers do not dissect religious texts to gain historical insight of their origins. And when you do gain such gnosis from the roots of recorded civilization, expect to be in the state of Ascension.

>>40944671
Peak shadow projection.

Marxism is literally anti-Gnostic, it sets itself apart from other forms of communism partly by being explicitly materialistic and deny any sort of spirituality or escape from material reality at all

>>40945338
Marxism deny’s any sort of transcendentalism, that’s closer to utopian or Christian socialism, and again very much contrary to traditional Gnosticism and is much closer to lets say Rosicrucianism or some forms of New Testament based Christianity. Traditional Gnosticism says the material world is evil and false, and must be completely escaped for a spiritual one, how hard is this to comprehend?

But there isn’t even really a thing as traditional Gnosticism though admittedly, as ‘Gnostic’ is just a later label to describe a bunch of mainly Christian religious movements that didn’t fit in with Nicea Christianity and the like