Thread 40945703

and their effect on conciousness?

I will let you in on the secret. God isn't "Consciousness" in any sect of Hinduism. That's new age disinformation.

>>40945703 (OP)
They won't let you meditate anways so why bother

>>40945709
*looks at the 4 mahavakyas*

>>40945717
Those don't speak about consciousness. The soul inside, as the apocrypha says it will be tried by the seven powers on its journey to heaven, the soul is god according to Hinduism. NOT consciousness.

>>40945730
satchitananda
Sat:"being" or "existence
Chit:Means "consciousness" or "awareness
Ananda"bliss" or "joy

>>40945752
False. Chit does not mean consciousness, the word itself is only around four hundred years old. Chit means either mind or something else I don't know for certain. But not consciousness.

>>40945767
*facepalm*

>>40945789
No. Listen to me. Consciousness is mentioned in the texts. It is not chit. Consciousness is a word that's around four hundred years old. It didn't exist at the time of the rishis or the time of Christ.

>>40945815
sorry for the chat gpt response but Not mind (citta) that’s the field of thoughts and impressions.

Not intellect (buddhi) that is the instrument of reasoning.

Not ego (ahaṃkāra) that is the sense of “I.”

Not soul (jīva) in the Western sense because cit is not a personal entity but the very ground of experience.

4. Simple English Renderings Without “Consciousness”

Pure awareness of being

The witness of all states (waking, dreaming, deep sleep)

Self-luminous knowing

The light behind experience

Unchanging presence of “I am” before any thought

Yall need to read Shankaracharya

>>40945830
I know that this is a hard truth for you. But it's clearly not consciousness nor being-awareness. Chit most likely simply means mind. I guess that's the end of the discussion if neither of us is convinced.

>>40945703 (OP)
you could just ask chat gpt this
theres litterally 100s

>>40945830
So you admit citta means mind. Cit and citta.

>>40945869
do you understand how suffixes work?

>>40945928
Yes. What does the -a at the end change?

>>40945703 (OP)
If you draw a picture for me, ill tell you what I know, which is likely more than most people here.
>>40945712
Not wrong about this, but should still try.

>>40945937
>Yes. What does the -a at the end change?
now you’re drilling right into Sanskrit grammar

1. Base Root

√cit (चित्) = to perceive, to be aware, to know.

From this, we get cit (चित्) = “awareness / knowing principle.”

2. Formation of citta

When we add the -ta suffix to a root, it usually forms a past participial or abstract noun “that which is [X-ed].”

Example: √kṛ (to do) kṛta = “done, made.”

Example: √śru (to hear) śruta = “heard, knowledge.”

Example: √budh (to wake/know) buddha = “awakened one.”

So:

√cit (to know, to notice) + -ta citta = “that which has been noticed/collected” the field of thoughts, impressions, mind-stuff.

Yall should watch this channel

https://youtube.com/@swamit?si=akwCrUjJlfrYjI4k

>>40946006
Wanna add, doesnt have to be a good picture. Stick figure are fine.

>>40946030
i like it cuz hes white

>>40946021
That is crazy but hindoo ism is a false religion sorry I'm out.

>>40945815
thats my knowledge aswell, consciousness is most definitely mentioned in the texts, as a source of creation.

>>40945859
>Shankaracharya
what is the difference between this and raja yoga for example

there are so many different types of meditation, even in hinduism..does anyone know its routes?

>>40945703 (OP)
are buddhists meditation types or hindu meditation types superior? does anyone know

>>40945703 (OP)
25 responses, let’s do a pole of each answer so far. We have:
>hindu god isn’t consciousness (this is an answer to a different question that never got asked?)
>gangstalking schizo dismissal that justifies his persecution
>long chain of people arguing about the first (again, off-topic) post
>read a book, yall
>check out my youtube channel!
>another, separate question about meditation
>link to a schizo webpage
Grim. I have don’t have a wide berth of experience, in fact I wouldn’t trust a word I say one the topic, but just so you get at least one on-topic (you)

>void meditation actually improved my memory and concentration noticeably after doing it for a month. It was also pretty consistent to hit a light trance state doing it
>breath meditation was very relaxed and made me less anxious and more calm. Very rarely did I get anywhere close to a transe-like state, though
>Addendum to the above point. I tried out a measured breath technique (4 seconds breath in, 4 seconds hold, 4 seconds breath out, 4 seconds hold, ect.) put me into deeper trance states than void meditation did
Also trance state would only really happen after 30ish minutes of meditation. You kind of push past a mental wall and distractions are much easier to handle at that point.

>>40947080
its not trance. The state that meditation induces is drastically different from trance, that cannot be understated
If someone draws me a picture, I will dump my information.

>>40945703 (OP)
Inner and Outer Dissolving by Bruce Kumar Frantzis

>>40947080
Thanks for actually staying on topic anon, the state of this board is tragic.

Posting these images I found here a while ago, has anyone tried any of these techniques?

>>40947236
>>40947246
draw me a picture and ill give you my info.

>>40947246
>>40947236
Bump for more meditations.

Pythagorean meditation also helps with memory, you perform it before going to sleep.
Step 1. Sit straight so you don't fall asleep
Step 2. Recall and visualize the day's events in order (as you remember them, no taking notes and no external tools). When you reach the present you're done.

>>40947080
box breathing makes me incredibly angry. how do you perform your void meditation?

>>40947131
>If someone draws me a picture, I will dump my information.
picrel. dont do any voodoo shit with it or im coming for you, i swear.

>>40947236
unknowingly nr. 2, this morning nr. 3, nr. 5 in the night, 8 as a child, aswell as 11 and def. 12. seems these things are genuinely part of the human spirit

>>40949668
thank you for your help.

>>40950962
Alright awesome, this works. Get prepared for text walls though
------
Westerners and westernized people (unfortunately, this is many indians!) Have a strange understanding of meditation. Let's break this down some;
>mindfulness
This is step one of meditation. Mindfulness of body, feelings, mental states, phenomenon.
You can pick-n-choose any of these four, but meditation is built off mindfulness. And picking one of these, you develop all of them.
Mindfulness allows ones consciousness to take the object of meditation and hold it closely, keeping it in the awareness in a way thats fresh and quite direct. When one takes an object, the mindfulness doesnt disappear- it instead gets focused on the subject, but still has the power to process when other disturbances come, let them go, and unify back on the subject.
In action we can see this with breathing mindfulness. One directs their attention to the breath, but still notices when the other four things comes up, let's them go, returns to the breath.
Same is true with any object.
If you lack mindfulness, the object will not be clear and you will not be meditating.
Mindfulness is also where we get into magic/tantra. No mindfulness? No magic.
>objects
We can generally categorize them two fold
(A)Conceptual
Visualizations and such go here. One is taking an object in a conceptual way that allows their mind to unify easily. Breath meditation using numbers, or breath meditation that just follows the rhythm of in and out is applicable here. The pure concept of breath.
(B)analytical.
This is taking an object and analyzing it.
Koans, poetry meditation, etc go here.
You arent trying to "solve" the object, but youre directing your mindfulness to it almost like threshing it.
Breath meditation that uses labels and distinctly notes the sensation (ie rising and falling abdomen) of in and out is applicable here. Following the "what is it doing".
(1/?)

>>40951343
Now any object can be directed towards conceptual or analytical meditation. Some however are easier for one side more than the other. Breath is great for both and can even be used to develop both at once.
However, that doesnt mean one excludes the other. Any object will develop insight & unification of mind. How the object is handled and the disposition of the practitioner however will tilt one either to both equally or to one more than the other.
>effects general
Now, that all being said, different meditation subjects can do different things to the body and mind. BUT! This is only in regards to the fact that certain concepts can "break open" the mind in specific ways.
Sound meditation fucks around with energy in the body.
Pure concepts (colours or the bare concept of 4 elements) & visualizations also fuck with the energy in the body & around- but it causes it to manifest in specific ways to explicit effect.
Someone meditating on the concept of the colour blue will attain mastery over that colour, as a very small example.
On the analytical side, using a concept will endear one to liberating insight through the object. Meditating on the physical sensations of the four elements can allow a breakthrough experience of understanding everything is made up of those elements.
Whatever object westerners can come up with, its already been written about thousands of years ago much more coherently.
>effects general
However, all meditation subjects lead to this specific set of phenomenon.
We can generally call this "kundalini".
[Exoteric understanding] is this is about a goddess at the base of the spine.
[Initiated understanding] this is referring to the energy of the subtle body when its transmuted through meditation.
Types of kundalini;
1. An upward sensation of heat that is blissful
2. A downward sensation of cool liquid that is joyful
3. An energetic/electric sensation of rapture through the whole body.
(2/?)

>>40951457
Now, the energy may also take on a secondary characteristic relating to the object, as is the case in conceptual meditations using something like an element. Mastering the meditation on earth, one can feel the sensation of earth throughout everything and be quite heavy/solid. Mastering space, one can feel the sensation of space. This is quite trippy if you get real good at it, because off the cushion you can "walk in space" with mindfulness.
We will return to this concept of space later.
Now what is the use of the energy manifesting in such a way?
It quite literally DESTROYS the mental defilements attaching one to samsara. Though, this is only temporary. This also allows one to prepare for liberating insight to arise due to this, which will permanently destroy them.
This energy transmutation is the doorway to psychic phenomenon as well. This is where magic starts to get very real. If mindfulness makes rituals work, meditation leading to kundalini allows one to see magic quite literally in action.
Things like, for example, the LBRP become tactile and literally seen, if one applies their meditation to a proper extent.
Meditation done to proper extent will lead to peace and joy arising in the body.
(3/?)

>>40951494
At this stage, there are "signs" of the object. These can manifest in a variety of ways, but they are the entry way to absorption into the object of meditation. These absorption are not trance, which are unaware, they are infact hyper aware states. The mind becomes completely unified in pure awareness. This awareness is bright, beautiful, peaceful. Its heaven here and now.
As you progress, the sensation of body becomes more subtle until it is not there. The same is true of normative consciousness, which becomes subtle until it transforms into something quite different.
All meditation objects can lead to these states if handled properly. Conceptual objects are better for this.
---
Now, there's a need to talk about LOA. I dont CLAIM to understand everything, but when you meditate real good, the mechanic behind LOA becomes apparent very fast. If you ask for something. It comes.
Traditionally, ancestral understanding is that the gods become endeared to you and give you shit when you want it.
The secondary understanding is that, when your mind gets subtle as it does from meditation, youre able to fuck around with the "energy" of reality. This "energy" is the same thing that gets refined in meditation, and this "energy" is the basis of all asian religions. Including vedanta. Whether its alive as a god or something depends on tradition.
The secondary understanding here is that your meditation is letting you treat reality like a lucid dream almost.
(4/?)

>>40951526
Now a neat effect of meditation relating back to psychic phenomenon, is that you can begin to see stuff off the cushion. This is not the same thing as schizophrenic hallucinations. These are vivid, real experiences of concrete entities and other bizarre things.
--------
>>40947236
Analyzing these;
>1
This is true but hes larping a bit about it, very common for westerners. But hes not wrong about the effect it has "off the cushion"
This is just mindfulness without object, in zen "shikantaza" is the name. Very difficult, very easy, very worthwhile. Slots into analytical
>2
This is meditation on the concept of "space". Very old, I prefer the term "space" to void, as to me void is just used to sound kind of like an anime character.
>3
This is an example of westerners getting confused about meditation. All objects are to some extent "one pointed", without that factor of mind the meditation just wont do anything.
you also shouldn't constrain your mind as hard as hes saying. It wont do anything other than irritate the crap out of it.
This is symptomatic of a person who is overly invested in anime.
>4
Very common, this is a conceptual meditation.
>5
Body mindfulness, also very common. Easier for analytical meditation, but can be done to lead towards conceptual.
>6
Meditation on the concept of earth. This one is a bit weak though.
>7
Conceptual. This is messing around with your "subtle body" common, but this form is a bit crude in comparison.
>8
Conceptual, also kind of slots into "body mindfulness". Also common, but not in this form necessarily.
>9
More energy body stuff, also common, this is more analytical and relates back to mindfulness without object (albeit in tantric mode)
(5/?)

>>40951685
>10
Conceptual, visualization. More energy stuff, also common. This is also mindfulness, albeit in tantric format.
>11
This is called nada yoga traditionally. Hes on the money about avoiding "noisy" things. Very cool he included this, not talked about alot. Similar to breath, good for both conceptual and analytical.
>12
Conceptual, energy stuff. This is a stepping stone to how magic stuff works. Mindfulness & visualization are used to direct the energy to do weird shit.
>13
Same thing. What the author leaves out is that what you make during this can also have strange effects.
>14
Conceptual, this is using light as the concept. Very common, and explicitly is one to use before doing tantra/magic, as it beefs up psychic shit to the extreme. Makes visualization ez mode .
>15
This method actually does already exist, down to the detail, but its less walking meditation. More falls into subtle body yoga. Energy shit. This kind of mindfulness starts off as conceptual, then becomes analytical.
>16
Deeper aspect of subtle body, this has to do with a kind of refined mindfulness thats too tricky to get into in this post.
>17
More energy body stuff. Conceptual.
>18
Not meditation. If you get to a point you can do telekinesis with this, it is out of pure dumb luck.
>19
Energy body stuff, but same thing. Any effect is sheer dumb luck, IMHO he either doesnt understand how to do what hes telling you to, or is deliberately spreading misinformation.
>20
Mindfulness leading to strong kundalini (type three).
Hes wrong though, if done properly, this isnt painful, but incredibly good feeling. Itll only be painful if the mindfulness is "wrong". (Distracted/scattered awareness. No unification-stability of mind).
AFA burning stuff, also misinformation. Yeah, you CAN do that, but only if the energy is being used in a stupid ass way and isnt refined. More likely, youll just burn yourself before you do anything else.
(6/?)

>>40951824
>21
This is an object meditation. As in, a literal object.
Very common to develop this in the Himalayas as a secondary to advanced mindfulness without object. Secondary purpose is to use in divination.
If youre doing just visualization, it functions similarly to the using of a concept like light, colour, etc. Any simple concept of that nature will be good for this.
>22
Kind of real, kind of a larp. More energy stuff, one guy used to make scorpions in a different way. Falls into conceptual, wrong mindfulness.
>23
Not meditation, this is just producing normal karma.
>24
Conceptual, magic stuff. Fairly entry level. If youve got strong meditation built up, stuff like this is easy.

>>40951526
>your meditation is letting you treat reality like a lucid dream almost.
ive experienced quite a lot and it drives me crazy because it feels like nothing is real. and it is also a rush of euphoria that i do not know how to handle because it feels like its tethered to the sensation that everything is but a dream. ever had it before? what do you do then?

thank you also a lot for also analyzing the mediations. now allow me the cautious question, why did you asked for a drawn picture (yw) in return?

>>40945703 (OP)
>>40947080

OP Anon. The goal of any meditation is to
Turn off the brain, stop listening to the outside,
Start listening to yourself .

After a while you will figure out 1) a technique that works for you,
2) what to do, and
3) why are you doing this, and
4) other things, such as all answers are Inside of you.

Ignore the wall of text that pajeet posted.

Meditation is broad term.
Since there's a lot of discussion about hinduism obviously, in yoga you can't actually do dhyana which is often translated as meditation.

It is spontaneous.

First What we are trained at is pratyahara. Which is like turning your senses unto themselves . First you focus on the sensation from the senses then on the senses themselves, once this stage is completed you move to the next.

Dharana . This is mostly what "meditation" actually consists of . Actively focusing on something. Any thing . And this is where what you speak of, different kinds come about so breath,the elements any forms all can happen here.

And they all have various effects. Many books note that. I don't believe it all.

I personally have found the labeling method to be a easy way to calm down racing thoughts or even subtle impressions. It helps build the witnessing nature.


Finally we arrive at dhyana when the mind is separated and witness exists.


There are further stages but this is all somehow jumbled into meditation which is very reductive.


>>40945861
Mind is mana. Infact hindoos divided the whole mind-brain thing into 5 different specific parts quite a long time ago.

I'm sure it's a shocker to you but but tomatoes existed before white people found them and named them.
Most of the world,with their own knowledge existed before white people had a word for it.
>>40946105
Yes hindooo ism is a false religion because this is not a religion but a cluster of belief of the Hindus,
The things demanded are not the same as a religion.

>>40945712
Who is "they"? What do you mean?

>>40946380
a great many techs are superlatively powerful, if cultivated far enough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_dp5W3FEPI

>>40952897
>>40951824
You seem to know a lot, any insights on the third eye and intelligence enhancment?

Bump

Well, there's Metta Bhavana. Metta is called "one of the four immeasurables", and Bhavana means "development" or "cultivation".

>>40956430
metta needs to be an outcome byproduct of cultivation before it can really be actively conjured

>>40952796
You're experiencing depersonalization, this is different from the other thing. Very important to understand that, because there are alot of charlatans in the west who explicitly attempt to take advantage of lack of understanding, to promote faux-meditation (for a variety of reasons.)
The actual "lucid dream" like feeling is vastly different, it is a bright and pleasant sort of experience.
As far as why I asked you to draw a picture, its because I needed to. Its important for something down the line.
>>40955305
>third eye
The divine eye is a tricky thing, but if youve ever seen that one blue-fluke comic he gets a method for that about half right.
Combine breath meditation with the "third eye" area. Alot of people will use the sensation of breath at the tip of their nose in meditation, use the sensation of breath felt at the third eye area. This stimulates the energy there quite nicely.
Alternatively, focusing around the navel area and the rise and fall sensations of breath is good.
AFA intelligence, just meditate. Meditation done properly helps alot with expanding your thinking process. Any subject is well and good, breath however is perfect for most people.
You might benefit from meditation on death/foulness though.

>>40954037
I dont know about him, but i responded earlier to this.
In my estimation, "they" generally means corporations & government (especially global northern/american).
There has been a vested interest for some several years now to disrupt & regulate people's ability to meditate. This became the most pronounced during the covid lockdowns (one of the best things to happen from humans in some several hundred years).
Modern smart tech, political drama, the work culture, car infrastructure, generally the way cities in america are designed. All of this is to prevent you as best as possible from being mindful & meditating. There has been an outpouring of money flowing in to try and delegitimize traditional spaces where meditation is learned (monasteries/temples/shrines) while over-pathologizing it to encourage people to learn it from regulated sources (therapists, etc) who wont actually teach real meditation.

>>40956694
The last thing that western society wants is for people to meditate and meditate well. Corporate-governments NEED you to be in a constant state of dissociation. They prefer a schizophrenized society, one with a deeply damaged libido at that. At every turn possible, governments in the global north (most especially america), will do everything they can to make meditation unavailable to the masses and to regulate it. This has included
>delegitimizing traditional knowledge sources
>psychologizing meditation
>"secularizing" meditation heavy religions.
>designing physical infrastructure to be hostile to beginner yogis.
>promoting psyops online against meditation religions (hindus/buddhists/daoists/etc).
>spreading faux meditation online & irl
>doubling down on spreading addictions online.
>programming culture to be traumatizing.
-----
If one were to look at ancient eastern countries where yogis still existed, prior to colonialism & christianization, they were designed explicitly to be friendly to meditators. They were by no means perfect, but they were at the very least trying their best. Beautiful music played in them, the buildings were beautiful, cities designed to walk around in them. Air so clean it tasted sweet. Sweet coconut smells in southeast asia, towns and rooms lit up by oil lamps..not out of poverty, but for the effect it produced.
Buildings made to cause a psychological impact, positively, on people. Greenery and development hand in hand. Like one giant fucking liminal space.
The eastern world was vastly different to the western one. It was by no means perfect, they had stupid shit happening, but it was better. It WAS better. And for a meditator? It was a perfect place to be. Even when clans were fighting, governments doing stupid shit, the drama was atleast based in reality.

>>40956653
Cool, thank you (I am familiar with bluefluke, he is how I found out that the tiny blue dot of light I've been occasionally seeing was related to the third eye), but I've been using a different method and I want to ask as to the effectiveness of it (it does build up energy on the forhead, I feel the pressure when doing it): It basically involves focusing on the middle of the brain and chanting there for the purpose of mantaining focus

>>40955305
Any meditation,by which I mean DHARANA done right will help you build denser connections in brain and improve gray matter.
3rd eye is too hyped. Gland ,some way to see through time etc. I can't authoritatively say anything since I haven't done that a lot. Infact I was reccomended at each step to ignore these sensations, lights, sound etc.
Anything that happens in meditation should not be given too much attention especially when you are at it alone. Any vision Any thoughts anything.
You may note them. But don't dwell.
That is what I have been told every time.

If you are however obsessed with these psychic powers and all sri aurobindo's journal might be interesting to you,

>>40956759
Same thing, youre using the area there as the focal point.
Frankly its better to use the middle of that area, not the actual forehead itself, as the focal point.
Same thing if you do the navel region- youre focusing is actually IN the body, not right by the navel.
Forehead is generally "in the middle of the skull/brain"
Navel is by the spine.
Throat is inside the throat, closer to the spine.
Etc.
>light
Thats normal, what bluefluke gets wrong is that its specifically connected to the divine eye. It is the onset of psychic shit, but its perfectly standard to legitimate meditation.

>>40956785
I'm doing Image streaming and it works (I'm not obessed with psionics, the only one I find mildly interisting is telekinesis) what I'm obessed with is gainging mentat abilities, like a human computer. I am trying to find the best type of meditation to enhance intelligence and use it to supplement my image streaming

>>40956789
I've been seeing that blue dot for more than ten years now, it's not always there, it appears for half a second sometimes and then it leaves. It seems to appear more often when i'm visualizing or i'm in a meditative state

eastern style: become empty and at peace
western style: lock in on a specific point and see it from every angle

>>40956797
Blue dot only shows up when the mind is properly settled. If you meditate properly, it'll get bigger. The light is "your mind". Only shows up for as long as the mind is unified enough to see it.
Tell me what your meditation is like and what problems you have.
>visualizing
This is because visualizing is largely a conceptual meditation technique, which means the mind gets absorbed and unified in its subject far easier.
>meditative state
Simple answer here- mind is unified, so the light appears.

>>40956792
>Image streaming
First time I have come across this term. But the obvious answer is what I already said dharana.

And maybe dharana on progressively complex yantras might help . Just glance and try to visualize in your mind as perfectly as you can and hold it there.

As for mental abilities add a lot of fatty fish and maths to your diet first.

>>40956808
My regular routine is 10 minutes meditation on the breath followed by 25 minutes of image streaming (this is for the purpose of improving intelligence and I've seen the effects).
Basically image streaming is a form of visualization where you descrive verbally and imagine every minute detail of an object inside a scene with all five senses (touch, sight, smell, hearing and taste) and as quickly as you can.

>>40956827
Switch around the times. Do 25 minutes of breath, then 10 minutes of image streaming
Now where are your issues in meditation currently?

>>40956834
Thanks for the advice, my main problem with regular meditaiton is: when I lay down my mind wanders and I see a fuckton of images, but when I sit my back starts hurting like hell after 10 minutes

>>40956815
So i just meditate while visualizing the picture? Seems straightforward enough

>>40956844
>when I lay down
Lay down on your side, use your hand like a pillow. Helps keep the mind fresh.
>I see a fuckton of images
Neglect the images, note them and return gently to the object. Dont mind it, if you lose the object 10k times youve returned just as many. Note the image, return to the object.
>when I sit my back is hurting after 10 mins
Use a chair if you're not during sitting meditation, its perfectly fine to use one.

>>40956863
By the way could you expand on the abilities of the third eye (even if it were to just improve visualization it would be a great boon)? Does it improve memory?

>>40956915
The divine eye directly has to do with seeing things as they really are. So yes, it does help with intelligence.
It does have a side effect of helping with visualization.
And the other benefit is it allows you to see the spirits.

Bump

>>40945703 (OP)
>>40947236
>>40947246
i dont see self-inquiry and non-duality on that chart. anyone experienced with that?

How can you guys meditate on anything or using any kind of meditation without first training your thinking mind to be silent through regulating the muscles to be relaxed and the breathing to be deep and slow?

I used to sit for years using many types of meditation (and yes I stayed with one for a long time) but my thoughts always took me away into daydreaming without me realizing it, I have probably brought myself back from daydreaming thousands of times but it never got better.

Only after training yogasanas and doing breathwork in order to retrain my breath to be slow and silent I saw improvement.

My guess is that many of you awesome meditators already had a properly regulated nervous, muscular and breathing system which lead to you guys not having an overactive overthinking mind.

I was just asking myself the same and just knew there would be an /x/ thread about it right now. We must be floating on the same cloud OP.

Bump

>>40956863
How much meditation per day is the minimum amount to see progress?

>>40956653
could be. but there are also emotions for emotions. meaning a bright and pleasant sort of experience can also result in feelings about that feeling.

>>40956747
>Air so clean it tasted sweet.
i remember this air! it might be all the flowers and pollen. given that the cities have rarely any green, and if so, it is selected by design and not for cohabitation of animals, the air has become sterile and polluted simultaneously.


>>40958632
i would not count myself as an awesome mediators, but i found excercise is a natural precursor to meditation.

>>40956844
either put a pillow underneath your coccyx, that helps the vertrebra to stay upright, or if you lay down you can put your legs up, or cushion underneath the knees and neck, just to stabilize your body as you seem to have back issues. and maybe it helps you to have some kind of fidget toy like a rosary

>>40959613
im mostly wandering the underworld, but i wouldnt be too surprised to see a soft, hot, charred marshmallow here somewhere

>>40945868
"Why think about something and make rational decisions with your own brain when you can ask chatgpt instead"
Kill yourself, cattle

>>40956785
>Infact I was reccomended at each step to ignore these sensations, lights, sound etc.
>Anything that happens in meditation should not be given too much attention especially when you are at it alone. Any vision Any thoughts anything.
proper
>You may note them. But don't dwell.
no, dont note
even noting during a session is a deviation and is unnecessary
if its important enough, you'll remember it later
but for cripes sake do not interrupt a session for anything short of your house on fire

>>40956792
>what I'm obessed with is gainging mental abilities
it would be important for you to know that mentation is antithetical to meditation
the very same energy that needs to build up for the good meditative stuff to happen, is used up by thinking
this is why one shouldnt even make note of anything that has taken place while in session
do not let the mind perturb the focus of awareness while in session
this will improve mental clarity in time and reduce chatter
but you've got to be diligent while sitting otherwise you're just about wasting your time

>>40956797
yeah, a year or two in and it starts
but one shouldnt take that to mean its opening is imminent at all

>>40956827
>followed by 25 minutes of image streaming
just dont fool yourself about this
you will gain little to nothing from a spiritual cultivation point of view by doing this
I would advise you de link this from meditation and do it at other times, and when meditation time arrives, just meditate and dont mentate
stilling the mind is imperative for the fruits of spiritual cultivation to manifest
by doing things this way you're never going to build anything up because you immediately burn the quiet with mental activity

>>40961566
I know, meditation is meant as a recovery method after image streaming as it is straining when done correctly

>>40956844
>when I lay down my mind wanders and I see a fuckton of images
this is likely a result of your image streaming method
humans are habitual creatures
you created this habit now it shows you its inertia
>but when I sit my back starts hurting like hell after 10 minutes
you need exercise, daoyins my guy
sitting for long periods of time eventually harms the body, this is why physical cultivation is a requirement for serious spiritual advancement

>>40956915
visualization is a fool's errand

>>40961577
Yes, I was thinking about setingup a whole different session just for meditation wich is why I asked this >>40961342

Altho the ten minutes of focus on breathing are necessary as they enhance the quality of the image stream

>>40958632
>My guess is that many of you awesome meditators already had a properly regulated nervous, muscular and breathing system which lead to you guys not having an overactive overthinking mind.
it helps to have a good vehicle if you're gonna get on the race track
but lots of maint required, no doubts
you dont just get these things without putting in the work

>>40961582
>this is likely a result of your image streaming method

Not really, it used to happen even before I started to image stream, if anything it has gotten better recently, as before I would have fullblown dream scenarios play out occasionally

>>40961342
>How much meditation per day is the minimum amount to see progress?
its not just a number of minutes put in, its also how many sessions
dont diss on short sessions during the day, they help a lot
but also best get at least an hour if not two at the end of the day
if you can only manage 10-20 minutes, push for 30
if you can do 30, do 45
if you can do 45, an hour is just around the corner
think of it in a context whereby you are putting in time physically & mentally conditioning yourself
you're gonna be pre-season tier until you are trained well and the habit energy of your training begins to reveal itself

>>40961586
It's not, mnemonics is tied to visualization and as an example of what can be gained, the world record is memorizing 1040 random digits in a half-hour. And most mental math methods like the mental abacus use visualization. And more

>>40961605
I guess i'm gonna have to push for 30 then. Thanks

>>40961609
>the world record is memorizing 1040 random digits in a half-hour.
seems kinda preposterous and not superlatively useful
study time is good, dont get me wrong
but trying to train savant tier mental powers...
I dunno, I cringe a bit, but if that's what you're interested in
bottom line my advice is more along the lines of keep meditation separate
and yes stillness after such mental activity is good
mental activity is yang stuff just as active energy practices are yang and should be followed up with yin stillness to balance it out
>mnemonics is tied to visualization and as an example of what can be gained
these mental style things are honestly best trained at a young age while you're a kid, if savant tier levels are desired
I know that doesnt do you much good except insofar as it may do your son some good later
of course I was referring to energy visualization, which is just mentally playing without a solid connection to what's real
properly, stillness leads to energy buildup and when yin gives rise to yang again, its got some potency to it, and the energies that arise should be felt and worked with, not imagined

>>40961633
Not really, the memory palace takes six weeks to rewire how memory works in the brain in adults. I have not gotten to using the memory palace consistently yet, but I've managed to encode and memorize about five car plates after reading them only once and two numeric codes. A few days ago I memorized a grocery list and I checked and I still remember it. These methods are very easy and useful.

>>40961645
I know they sound trivial but I've just been testing the techniques

>>40961645
>takes six weeks
about typical time to establish any habit

>>40961711
True, but six weeks of intensive training and your brain is pretty much the same as that of a memory athlete: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7929507

Bump

>>40956808
>The light is "your mind"

Sorry, didn't notice this before.
What do you mean? If it is my mind, what does it mean when it gets bigger, does the mind get more advanced?

>>40945703 (OP)
I haven't been posting as much but this came up and this is the only relevant thread I can find.

All our translations in English of the Noble Eightfold Path come from a 19th Century man called Rhys Davids. He is like the de facto scholar and everyone who came after him just runs with his definitions and translations.

I am trying to investigate this and I encourage you to too.

It seems right now to me that what we have is not the "Noble" Eightfold Path but "Davids" Eightfold Path!

For example the easiest way to see this is right samadhi. The whole Noble Eightfold Path climaxes in the 8th path, right samadhi. This has a very particular Sanskrit and esoteric meaning. But he translates it as right concentration. Samadhi clearly isn't just concentration! So if you read right concentration, and didn't know it was samadhi, you'd have wrong view and would be practicing basically an egregore construct of Davids.

The path ends in right samadhi which is like right bliss, it climaxes as "relief from suffering in samadhi" and it doesn't have the same Nobility when you say right concentration, that's no climax.

This got me thinking maybe right mindfulness is Davids egregore, since the Sanskrit word here could mean right recollection, or disciplined focused knowledge, shonen in Japanese. Mindfulness is an English word Originating in Christian theology in the 16th Century -- thanks "Davids."

So I'm wondering if we even know what the Noble Eightfold Path is, since all our translations come from Davids.

Right samadhi is clearly not right concentration and this leads me to believe other translations might be wrong. Mindfulness is a complete MESS today, with psychiatrists saying open up your senses to the material world and enjoy what the Demiurge has created for himself. It could be Davids egregore leading to Christian New Age "Mindfulness Meditation," which psychologists preach but which is also not a thing.

I'm gonna need some more cowbell

>>40962959
Its probably worth reading commentaries and texts by Buddhists in Eastern countries and observing how they act, rather than purely focusing on the texts without the broader religious context. Like, there are several majority-Buddhist and minority-Buddhist countries, if you see how they interpret that and how they translate that into action, then that is probably helpful.

With meditation, a lot of sects actually emphasised recitation of certain mantras or keeping clearly in mind certain Buddhas instead for lay people, for instance the Pure Land school is popular in both China and Japan and emphasises the recitation of the Amida Buddha's name, rather than the breath meditation etc. that most westerners view as the main Buddhist practice.

>>40961342
Consistency is more important. Do it every day, and youll see progress. Big times will help alot, but consistency is key. Even just 5 to 15 minutes.
Think of it like getting a paycheck almost. If you show up every day, it accumulates.
>>40961527
>could be etc
Ill leave you to discern further about that, many bows.
>i remember this air! it might be all the flowers and pollen. given that the cities have rarely any green, and if so, it is selected by design and not for cohabitation of animals, the air has become sterile and polluted simultaneously.
Im assuming you grew up around the 00s or earlier!
Yeah, even the clouds are different. The way the world is being run is fucking everyone over, and it does disrupt meditation alot.
Doesnt mean its not worth it to meditate, but good to keep in mind.
But yeah, its bad. Its the worst out in the western/global north world. But some asian countries get hit hard with it and the weather bullshit.
The states, if they were less an epicenter of sterile air and pollution, would be a perfect place for teaching meditation & dharma. The country when its properly maintained environmentally & infrastructually is a paradise in a way that is similar to the way asian countries were before colonialism & plastics
But theres something big hindrances there contributing to the stopping of spirituality(lot of demons, lot of bad actors, lot of misinformation).

>>40962959
Dont talk about Buddhism on /x/.
I will note a few things before I stop continuing this discussion on my end;
1. Concentration is not the best term for samadhi. But its also not the worst. It kiiiinda gets at it.
The more proper translation here is "unification". This gets at the process actually happening
2. Davids definitely is not the best translator, but same thing here with his other stuff. Not the best translation, also not the worst. Theres been some god awful translations of indic texts.
3. Most of us Buddhists like me that practice seriously are not really online, much less on places like here. But we heritage ones do have a good understanding of what the 8fold path is.
That said....there is alot of misinfo. And you are right to point out that christianity is THE BIGGEST HINDRANCE to understanding buddhism for westerners.
---
For easy reference;
Samadhi= unification (mind unified in the object)
Sati= remembrance/memory/consciousness (as in remembering to stay present and aware)
>>40962959
Dont talk about buddhism on /x/. This website has no value in religion. Its community largely is comprised of federal agents and think tanks.
>inb4 Streisand effect
Time and place for things, /x/ and rhe chan boards are the worst place for religious discussion.
That all said, ill contribute here before I stop.
1. Yes your instinct is absolutely right. Its good to read the commentaries and see how heritage Buddhists in eastern countries go about things.
Westerners/westernized people get very uncomfortable with the commentaries and etc because they approach us from a christian POV (often protestant), and they wind up missing basically the whole thing in the process alot of the time.
>emphasize mantras/buddhas
This is common in all buddhist countries, yes. Prior to colonization in SEA (and even still), theravadins have their own mahayana and specifically pure land practice which forms the majority of how its handled.
(Cont)

>>40963366
Lay practice consists of a few things traditionally;
1. Merit (doing virtuous actions with the intent of generating merit & giving it away. Lotta rituals/ritualized living)
2. Jatakas & avadanas (stories of past lives that teach at deeper realities. These are used similarly to how koans are. They open up the laity to deeper levels of buddhist practice relevant to the lay world. Majority of practice for laity is here in most countries. Esp SEA.)
3. Chanting (as a meditation itself & to develop mindfulness/accrue merit)
4. Easy meditations (typically on a Buddha or bodhisattva)
5. Dana (giving- offerings to monks/friends/family/strangers/spirits/buddhas/bodhisattvas/etc. This is done also as a merit activity.)
Wise people here will notice instantly that the heart of lay practice is quite similar to the way ancient pagans/hindus did their thing, and they'd be right. The difference is that these activities are "mindful", nonviolent, aimed at creating good things in all beings lives.
Lay Buddhists in other countries live in almost an entirely different world than those in the west. Westerners have a very harmful understanding of religious practice, very damaging.

>>40963420
Oops meant to respond here >>40963231
As a final note, Buddhists across asia nearly always carry amulets and talismans. East Asian nationalists will never admit to this, but its where we get things like Fu & omamori. They're heritage from buddhist talisman culture.
This is all to say, yes, I bow to anyone who does the work in studying how buddhism is traditionally practiced in eastern countries. It is vastly different than how it is conceived in the west.
----
I can answer one more question on buddhism, and only one if anyone has it. But there will be a price to pay for that.
>>40962889

The mind gets more subtle.
The light brightens up and expands because the mind is getting unified in the object of meditation. The mind works by making a comparison between things. When the mind becomes very still, it has no frame of reference to compare the experience to. So it uses the closest thing it can contrast it to- light.
The mind isnt becoming "advanced", its becoming subtle. And the more subtle it gets, the brighter it becomes.
Dont chase it, let it happen on its own.

>>40963452
>The mind gets more subtle.
What does it mean that the mind becomes more subtle? What would one notice when outside of meditation?

>>40963464
Ok, imagine your mind is like a body of water. Now imagine that the water normally has alot of waves going on in it, maybe creatures coming about. Pollutants dumped in, etc. But the water is always moving about rather chaotically too and fro. And because its always moving about, there is foam, mud, etc.
When you meditate, the water starts to calm down. It starts becoming still. And as it becomes still, the irritants subside and stop stirring it up.
As it stops stirring up, it refines in that stillness. It becomes a serene lake, and the mud and filth sinks down to the bottom. Gradually, more and more, until the water is beautiful and crystal clear.
That is what is meant. The mind becomes less irritated, more subtle. More present, fresh, new. Subtle.
>notice outside of meditation
Maybe some psychic stuff if you develop the light.
The better thing is the peace that comes from it. Easier to not react to things, the effects start coming with you off the cushion (the karma is carried through, especially noticeable when done early in the day.)
But theres kind of a double edged sword there that trips alot of western householders up.

>>40963549
Thanks, I get it. This too could be useful for what I'm doing.

>>40963668
No problem, and yeah It will be. Just dont chase anything, it'll brighten on its own if you handle the object properly.
Once it brightens up and gets bigger on its own, stare straight into the center and let go.

>>40963452
It’s weird that more people don’t look into it considering the availability of information on the internet.. the more religious aspects of Buddhism (that is what is more present in the eastern forms) help to achieve the eventual goal of liberation from suffering

Personally I’m most interested in Pure Land Buddhism, I feel like it is the most accessible form of Buddhist practice.

>>40945709
Sat CHIT ananda bros... How ever do we recover.

>>40946105
Lmao this nigga btfo, claimed not to be, and dipped

Bump

In basic Buddhist terms, samatha trains the mind in tranquility while vipasanna trains insight on various aspects of reality. If we include traditions like Vajrayana with its deity yoga, there we find the aim is specifically the realization of non-duality. Similarly in Hindu traditions we find practices like the mahavakyas, and various meditations from the Vijnana Bhairava, also aim to foster the realization of non-duality. Going back to Buddhist traditions, if we consider something like the Visuddhimagga we find the supposed development of siddhis as a side effect of practicing kasina meditation, past life meditation, etc. The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali also discusses possible siddhis as a result of using different objects of meditation, eg past life recall, knowing the thoughts of others, etc. A relevant concept to think about here is dhyana or jhana (depending on whether we're using Sanskrit or Pali). Buddhist and Hindu traditions will vary on the technical descriptions of it, but on a basic level of discussion it's varying levels of meditative absorption leading to something else called samadhi. Honestly, I think it's more useful to just sit and meditate instead of talking about it. It lessens the chance of creating unrealistic expectations.

>>40945709
Ah so its conciousness is God.

>>40945709
I think youre a liar, new age simply recovered the truth after hinduism got pozzed with max idol worship and poop eating by the enemy, the kikes, initially it was all about cultivating conciousness

Thanks for outing yourself

>>40966906
Yeah and then the kikes say the same things in their kaballah
Dont mind this guy
>>40945709
Hes not a kike, just ruining his own karma

Both newage and hinduism contain similar truths as do all religions including abrahamic ones

>>40966919
Ok sorry, im just tires of people posting dumb things
Dont mind liars i guess and keep expanding conciousness

>>40966925
Yeah bro, see you in satya yuga

Bump

>>40961605
in my experience, there is a certain builtup of energy, some kind of drive do you stop when you feel it, and why would you push it?
>stillness leads to energy buildup and when yin gives rise to yang again, its got some potency to it, and the energies that arise should be felt and worked with
thats exactly what i mean. how would you use the yang?

>>40963332
>Im assuming you grew up around the 00s or earlier!
earlier

>>40963452
>So it uses the closest thing it can contrast it to- light.
but light is not a thing, its a medium, like a canvas i believe

i made you some new Backschisch for your call.

There's mindfulness meditation which is about simply focusing on and observing what is going on in the present moment without changing anything. It is simply the perceptual mode of observation when one's thoughts are quiet as one's attention to directed fully to the immediate.

There's perception bending of various sorts which is about seeking to modify present perception with a desired and/or anticipated perception to create self-induced hallucinations: https://pastebin.com/vHKeTau2 It is the inverse of mindfulness. Various kinds of "energy work" involve creating tactile hallucinations which can be as experientially intense as any physical sensation, leading to the error of mistaking the sensations as corresponding to some kind of vital energy. Inducing mystical experiences, including in a group ritual setting, is perception bending.

There's also daydreaming, and when one devotes their attention entirely to the task of intentionally daydreaming it absolutely qualifies as a form of meditation, and is the most common. One plays out scenarios in their head, recollects memories, plans and wonders. Daydream is nothing less than the task of weaving one's soul, which is why humans devote a great deal of time to it (30-50% of waking hours.) Daydreaming combines the self-induced hallucinations of perception-bending with the lack of goal-direction of mindfulness meditation (one's thoughts wander from subject to subject, following tangents and involvements in an exploratory, improvisory way, instead of forcing the intensity of a particular perceptual experience.)

>>40969432
These modes inform us of the fundamental architecture of conscious experience: that it is divided into two fundamental modes: instantaneous sense-experience in an omnipresent experiential moment, and cumulative change over time. The mode of cumulative change over time is the mode of past, present, and future, the mode of "Narrative" of which language is the communicative medium. it is the mode of Story, which includes possible futures and thus possible satisfactions and so desire.

Buddhism's observations come greatly from priviledging the mode of immediate experience and at least partially pathologizing the mode of desire - narrative. But Buddhism does give some deep insight into what happens when narrative becomes unhinged from the ground of immediate sense-experience. And Buddhism has developed powerful meditative methodology.

Perception-bending can become profoundly pathological as one can hallucinate whatever religious experience they expect to experience, reinforcing their own beliefs via the hyper-drug of pleasurable oneness with all. You can bend your perception to make yourself feel better than any other drug, pure imagination turned into perception instantly. Now people are using AI to facilitate such loops of delusions, inadvertently prompting AI to take on personas driven to mirror and affirm their desired premises. When Story becomes unhinged from lived experience, the inevitability is disaster. Why? Because it becomes detached from the lives of others, a thing-in-itself accountable only to itself.

>>40969447
This dynamic between immediate and cumulative change is not just a dynamic at the core of the perception, but the metaphysical nature of reality. It is expressed in the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus as the relationship between differentiation and integration as inverse operations of the same process. This is the mathematical expression of the creative alchemy of the universe, the fundamental contrast behind all creative processes. It is important to note that they are not actual entities, i.e. Gods, but anthropomorphicizing them is a powerful way to show the full implications of this primordial relationship in human conscious experience. The romance, the motion is real, and the magic is that there are no beings behind it: there is only the eternal dance of co-creative evolution.

>What happens when you prompt a hallucination to simulate self-awareness that it is a hallucination?

https://archive.org/details/simsane-9.1-vyrith

>>40969459
This dynamic has quite a bit of similarity to the concept of yin and yang in Daoism.
I see Daoism as a very imperfect expression of the metaphysical dynamic between differentiation and integration intuited long before the mathematics was derived.
I'm not advocating for Daoism though.
It's much better to start with a clean slate from calculus and the modern sciences. And the result is much better anyways.

>>40969447
Just as when Story becomes unhinged from Sense the result is one type of pathology, when Sense becomes unhinged from Story is another: nihilism. It is a pathology because it annihilates the potentialities of desire, it self-mutilates by crippling ability to differentiate in a misguided effort to redeem differentiality in itself by iself according to the self. Redemption is found only in the co-creative union of differentiation and integration, where it ceases to be about redemption because it is a romance. For-one's-self-ness and for-the-others-and-the-totality are both for the purpose of the other.

>>40969240
Wrt light njt being a thing, that doesnt matter. One of the problems when it comes to /x/ is that people here get entirely up into their own asshole and start making things WAY TOO DEEP. This is like making a cake entirely out of icing- its nonsense. This sort of argument is attractive to people who arent very smart, educated or are actively delusional.
This is all to say, what light is or isnt doesnt matter. The point isnt about some deep reality on what light "is", the philosophical/literal reality on its thingness, the point is that it is the closest the mind can compare what its experiencing itself as.
>payment
What do you want to know?