Thread 40953103

Just looking around , nothing on /x/, so starting a new thread.

What does /x/ think about ancient shamans and shamanism?

>Summoning the spirits of their ancestors: Shamans from around the world gather in Siberia for ceremony timed to coincide with cosmic cycles
2014
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2751139/Summoning-spirits-ancestors-Shamans-world-gather-Siberia-ceremony-timed-coincide-cosmic-cycles.html

I just read the mircea eliade book on shamanism. Lots of stuff about simulating death so you can make friends with spirits and then be reborn as a wise man. Trips to the other world, getting beaten up by your teacher, probably ingestion of datura. Wild stuff that is probably difficult for a first world normie to really wrap our head around

Is shamanism something you are born with or can it be learned?

>>40953299
It’s mostly learned. Even those born with shamanic gifts must work at it.

>>40953103 (OP)
The indigenous beliefs around the world most closely align with what I’ve found on my journey. Shamanism is what all the world religions are based on. A knowledgeable shaman is also the best healer. Through wether through retrieving soul fragments, psychic surgery, prayer or natural herbs.
>>40953117
>ingesting datura
Have fun with that. 2 times was enough for me. I’ll continue eating my mushrooms though

OP here, thanks anons.

based thread
we need more shamans

Eat 5 grams of penis envy and ask the mushroom spirit how to become a shaman

>>40955184
Best I can do is a portobello and a cuddle

>>40955216
I think I need to become a wolf shaman now
So cool

>>40953103 (OP)
> שמן
Hebrew were shaman too, they were called semites.

>>40955214
Portobello are the retards of the mushroom world. They won’t tell you shit
Better get good at breath work and meditation if you want to retrieve soul pieces without psychedelics

>>40955242
What psychedelics did they take? Baby foreskin?

How does one do psychic surgery? Is that Philippino shamans specialty?

>>40953103 (OP)
Shamanism is the original proto-religion/proto-magic of paleolithic man. If you want to "get to the roots" there is no more rootier place to begin studying.

>>40955807
study what? specific books, websites, cultures?

>>40955271
Adrenochrome ?_?

>>40955887
sucking adrenochrome straight from the cut penises of traumatized infants
rabbis got it like that

>>40955893
That’s why they do it? I always wondered why they would suck the blood out of a baby dick. Definitely isn’t sanitary

>>40953299
everywhere all the time people experience synchronicities and then excuse them away as arbitrary coincidence then go about their day, but if at any point said individual decided to focus on the syncronicitie, just give some attention to the question of why the world is using context only you would understand to highlight something to you - and a funny thing happens, the frequency of synchronicity increases. eventually the frequency alone can serve as signal in a world of noise.
>>40953103 (OP)
bro your on the internets hub for channelers right now, spend 5 mins shit posting with some of the local bots youll glean more then you would getting high near a fire in the woods.

>>40955917
What? Nothing you mention is shamanic
>durr just focus on synchronicity
Shut the fuck up

>>40956006
>Shut the fuck up
or what? as soon as your at the step where synchronicities synergistically synchronize youve essentially taken a thread of the spirit of the world into your hands, yU wanna half ass it with spiritually lesser cunts?

>>40953103 (OP)
>What does /x/ think about ancient shamans and shamanism?
Are you talking about Siberians only, or like, just indigenous beliefs in general? In case of the latter.
The authentic ones have some legitimate going on, I couldn't necessarily tell you the nature of that thing they have. But in my belief there is something real, though not necessarily supernatural.
You should, however, be wary of 'Shamanism' in the West and things claiming descent or influence, it's saturated with New Age nonsense and it's filled to the brim with Grifters. For example: Carlos Castañeda. Even some Indigenous practices are exposed to this (though I don't know if there's anything fake in them, just that them taking money from rich westerners in exchange for spiritual experiences makes me suspicious).

P.S: I think calling them 'ancient' is a bit of a misnomer. Not because the traditions aren't old, just that it seems vaguely fetishistic.

>>40955854
>Go to forest
>Take shrooms
>Bang drum

A state of mind alteration and vibrations. That's all one needs to step through the door to the spirit realm. Once the connection has been internalized the boundaries start to fade away.

>>40953103 (OP)
There’s evidence of Shamanistic rituals in caves dating back to the Paleolithic back when humans were still living the way we naturally evolved to. It’s not just a cultural development, but an intrinsic characteristic of our species to believe these things. It’s encoded into our DNA. If all of civilization was destroyed, no writing, no cities, no agriculture, we would still have spirituality and this would be it. Crazy shit.

>>40955719
>How does one do psychic surgery?
> Is that Philippino shamans specialty?
OP here.
I've heard that northern shamans would do surgeries without instruments as well.
South american as well.
Since we are not just physical bodies but energy bodies as well, some people can see energy fields, such as aura fields etc.
So , speculation here, but probably by looking at the breaks in energy fields someone trained can tell that something is weak in the energy field here, so it is possible to guess that maybe he/she has a pain in this area.

As far as surgery, in the past we've had people that wee more connected to the energy around them and less grounded etc. So one possibly train to get access to internal organs through skin?
This isn't clear .

>>40956311
OP here.
Anon we have more than you think.
We have hidden libraries of knowledge, we have hidden bodies on the planet that we can use as genom / DNA .
We also have a Truth field where everything is recorded, and which our souls somewhat agreed to not access.
Truth field is a cloud backup of all events that have happened and are true.
But in an emergency an advanced Souls could possibly access the Truth field and pull technologies that would be required for humanity to survive.

>>40956311
>but an intrinsic characteristic of our species to believe these things.
What things? Being specific helps discussion.
How do you know 'these things' were believed in the Paleolithic?
> If all of civilization was destroyed, no writing, no cities, no agriculture, we would still have spirituality and this would be it.
What is 'it'? Do you know how wide a net you are casting?
>>40956329
That psychic surgery thing sounds like a western spiritist practice masquerading as indigenous for legitimacy, frankly. Are you sure they come from actual indigenous people and not like, Umbandists or something?
All that energy shit also strikes me as western gobbledygook. No native cosmology I've read about talks about anything like this. Not in America, not in Africa, not in Melanesia, not in Asia, not in Europe.

>>40956473
>All that energy shit also strikes me as western gobbledygook.
Right now it is maybe, but it is the truth.
The body is electrical , and we can measure energy / electricity.

>That psychic surgery thing sounds like a western spiritist practice masquerading as indigenous for legitimacy, frankly.
We have no idea how it is done, but it has been done, and numerous people have seen this.
For instance, removing an inflated appendix .
Millions of surgeries in western medicine,
and people have seen appendix "removal"(?) "surgeries" that have been done by what you can call shamans.

>>40956539
>We have no idea how it is done, but it has been done, and numerous people have seen this.
Do you have a video I can watch? I'd like to see too.

>>40956566
I don't have videos.
This non-surgical stuff has been mostly banned.
And people who'd do it could get in trouble with modern oligarchs.
>surgeries is a 3 trillion $ industry,
>and here you are, doing it without hospitals, surgeons or drugs.
Some people randomly disappeared or suddenly died, so they stopped doing those shaman "surgeries" in public.

https://www.precedenceresearch.com/surgical-procedures-market

>>40956473
Of course we can’t say for sure what they were doing or their specific beliefs as this was tens of thousands of years ago and nothing was written down, but we know they had some sort of rituals performed at specific locations, often deep and treacherous caverns or on top of mountains to which people would not normally have a purpose in going to. One example is the Exteberri cave in France. They inhabited these areas only for a short time, but often came back repeatedly over multiple generations. They had apparent spiritual leaders, who we would likely refer to as shamans, who carried around tools, idols, beads, dyes, and substances likely associated with these rituals and found at these locations. Clothing, tools, idols, and carvings or paintings often depicted animals which likely held significance to a specific tribe or location such as wolves, bears, snakes, and eagles. These things cannot be explained by “rational” survival behavior, implying they were spiritual in nature and such patterns have been observed across continents.

>>40956023
>shamanism for babies
You’ve provided a lot of details and helpful advice
>>40956189
Same with you

>>40956291
Yeah but op seems scared. Probably read too many glowie fear based trips. Some people want to read and understand this before jumping in. I spent years as a child reading erowid, medical studies before I became old enough to find psychedelics in my teen years. Now I have enough trips of dmt/salvia/lsd/shrooms/research chems to sniff out who is just scaremongering
I do agree that jumping into the experience is the best way but I love reading so much that I would never discourage that either

>>40956473
>be specific about rituals from cave dwellers from millions of years ago up until the younger dryas/collapse of Atlantis
>my gut and limited knowledge tells me western culture invented something most of them know nothing about
I like the way you look at the world. Reminds me of neck beards on reddit

>>40955854
I will not handfeed you. The answer is all of those. Put in some fucking effort, faggot.

>>40953373
>even default shamans must work at it
Not really. I don't exactly try to get high all the time and tell people about shit they usually do not want to hear. I more just do this by default - it's a genetic habit of sorts.

>>40959182
> I don't exactly try to get high all the time and tell people about shit they usually do not want to hear
That’s not shamanic work unless it’s accomplishing something for someone. You can do soul retrieval, psychic surgery, or protection prayers without getting high or telling people stuff they don’t want to know. What work that you do are you referring to?

>>40958264
I was only asking for op because it seemed like your answer was vague. Sorry for asking your opinion on good resources

>>40959222
>That’s not shamanic work unless it’s accomplishing something for someone.
topkek
>what do you do?
I dunno. I made it up or something.
I like tendies. Do you like tendies, anon?

>>40959234
>what do you do?
>I dunno. I made it up or something.
>I like tendies. Do you like tendies, anon?

>>40956329
In northern Scandinavia there's a "well known" shamanic practice/technique of stopping bleeding wounds, called "stämma blod".
Depending on the shaman it's done in close proximity of the person in need or it can be done over long distances, even on the other side of the world I'd assume, as long as there's some sort of connection.

Typically it's passed from like from father/grandfather to son/grandson. But some will take it to the grave if they don't have a suitable heir they can trust to use it wisely.
There's been cases of small regional hospitals contacting healers if they have had problematic wounds that won't stop bleeding.

>>40959270
If anyone speak Swedish, there's a book on the subject.

>>40959280
I also happen to have an interesting synchronicity with one of the shamans/healers interviewed in the book. He was the most "powerful" in the book (he's actually christian and attributes all abilities to God) so I googled his name and saw that he also make traditional saami knives and theh happened to look a lot like one I bought on my first solo mountain hike a few years prior. On a closer look it turns out it's actually his initials and design carved on it.

>>40959280
Thanks

>>40956585
Thank you.
>>40956866
I agree with you. And nearly everything you said correct. But I think generalizing all these beliefs is unhelpful and does a diservice to those people and their spiritualities.
>>40958199
>>be specific about rituals from cave dwellers from millions of years ago up until the younger dryas/collapse of Atlantis
Maybe the point is that you can't and it's a stupid abstraction to think you can group them all in one category or something.
>my gut and limited knowledge tells me western culture invented something most of them know nothing about
Most westerners don't know shit about Thelema but it still isn't anything other than western. Have not found a single anthropological source claiming the indigenous (anywhere) ever believed in 'energies' the way modern new agers and spiritists do. Now if you have some I would be happy to be proven wrong. You don't have to effort post, just drop a name or smt for me to look up.

>>40953299
Explicitly a thing you learn. There may be pre-requisites (such as being a specific gender or from a specific bloodline) but you learn it.

>>40959459
Again, this can't possibly be true. You just said it's largely dependent upon genetics, which we agree on without friction. You can't "learn" being a Shaman when one of the prerequisites isn't being born into it. This is why they all ranted about Schizophrenia so much, anon.
Now, you can learn their culture and their rituals, but you don't just learn to be taller or sprint faster (to a point, sure, but we're talking in tiers or categories here; you can't teach someone to be an Olympic sprinter either).

>>40959449
>indigenous cultures ever believed in energies
Holy shit Swedish people are retarded. I’m from California so maybe I’m just exposed to more immigrants than you’re uninformed ass (not meaning to insult) your comment goes against all the common know on the subject
>filipinos
>Eleuterio Terte and his student Tony Agpaoa
>In Brazil, psychic surgery is practiced within the frameworks of Spiritism (Espiritismo), particularly Umbanda and Kardecist Spiritism, which blend African, Indigenous, European Spiritist, and Catholic traditions. the famous medium João Teixeira de Faria
>Indonesia: Some traditional healers (dukun) in Bali and Java are said to perform similar operations, often within a context of Hindu-Balinese mysticism.
Mexico: Certain curanderos (folk healers) in rural areas may incorporate elements that resemble psychic surgery, though it is not as defined or famous as in the Philippines or Brazil.
Western cultures are indigenous too by the way
Your whole worldview is myopic but please tell me more about your stupid knife you bought

>>40959505
NTA
Parts are true and parts aren’t
A prerequisite isn’t not being born into it
I’m a better shaman than 99% of people and I thought myself
You don’t believe certain families are shamans do you?
Also my brother is 6’4 and I’m 5’9
Same father and mother so your genetics argument is shit. Are you Swedish?

>>40960440
>Psychic surgery first appeared in the spiritualist communities of the Philippines and Brazil in the middle of the 20th century; it has taken different paths in those two countries.

They don't really have elaborate energy systems using chi, prana, chakras etc. Shamans/healers typically work through a spirit framework contacting spirits to do the work and such.

Don't be jealous of my cool shaman knife.

>>40959270
>>40959280
Nice, thanks anon.

>>40960453
>You don’t believe certain families are shamans do you?
Anon, if you're asking me this question, it's evident you wouldn't know the answer, which means you aren't familiar with the stories. I'm afraid you're very wrong about this and the significance of your level of incorrect is apparently far bigger than you could imagine.

>>40960440
>Eleuterio Terte and his student Tony Agpaoa
Not too much info on them on the english web. However I found a rather comprehensive spanish site on the topic, and it seems like a lot of the native influence on this practice comes filtered through spiritism, which is not native to the philippines and originates in France. And for the record, kardecist spiritism has as much connection to the folk magic of Europeans as Scientology.
>In Brazil, psychic surgery is practiced within the frameworks of Spiritism (Espiritismo), particularly Umbanda and Kardecist Spiritism, which blend African, Indigenous, European Spiritist, and Catholic traditions. the famous medium João Teixeira de Faria
Regarding Brazil&Umbanda, I think it being a tri-racial melange of beliefs mostly practiced by deracinated middle class people is a fact against it's legitimacy, in this case.
>Western cultures are indigenous too by the way.
They are (to Europe), but Spiritism is not. Go read up on Cunning Folk and such if you really care.
>>40961403
You should probably state we aren't the same person.

>>40962203
Shut the fuck up swedish faggot
I dated a Swedish bitch once and she still tries to get my family to tell me to contact her. You people are pathetic. Your definition of what native is retarded. Your distinction between indigenous and western is fake. It’s all part of the same planet. I literally stop reading your posts after a few sentences
>durr but they got it from France
French hate Swedes. All of Europe hates each other. You’re not some homogeneous culture.

>>40961804
I’m a better shaman that you bitch. How many soul fragments have you retrieved.
It’s not something based on family. You’d be better off arguing your previous incarnations are more of a factor
The truth is, if you want to accomplish things in this world, you’re better off working for it. Your family line doesn’t mean shit jew boy

>>40959350
>look at my knife
you’ll never be a real shaman you faggot

>>40959234
This is literally how retarded you are?
Just kys

>>40962297
>>40962320
it’s a demoralization campaign
they want to discourage others from learning
notice how he says its genetic but offers no proof?
they even admit when you ask that they just make it up but at least the bump the thread
it’s funny because they think arguing and drawing more attention to the thread through bumps is demoralizing but they play into our hands

>>40962297
Are you hysterical? You should log off, calm down.
>Your definition of what native is retarded.
I admit, 'native' and 'indigenous' are not good words to describe it. But I don't know of any better terms. I guess traditional beliefs and practices would be better, if clunky.
>Your distinction between indigenous and western is fake.
Well certainly if something was invented in Paris during the 19th century it can't be reasonably called Shamanistic, or a traditional belief unless you think Dianetics and Christian Science are forms of Shamanism.
At which point the term is so diluted as to be fucking worthless.

>>40962297
You will never be a real shaman. You have no drum, you have no contact with the spirit world, you have no inherited gifts. You are a new ager ashamed of your heritage, twisted by 20th century spiritualist charlatanism into a crude mockery of shamanic perfection.

All the “healing” you do are useless and have no effect. In other realms spirits mock you. The gods laugh at your pitiful practice in your bedroom.

Shamans are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of hours of astral travelling have allowed shamans to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Your crude and spiteful speech is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a fool to believe you healed him, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he realizes you're a new age fraud.

You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.

>>40962297
leave Swedes alone
they clearly have a deep shamanic tradition of knives and music like abba
kek
>>40959280
no one cares about your culture. I would listen to irish/scots though. those are the true shamans of europe

glowfucks respond quick on this board
>durr europe invented everything
that’s why you import africans?

>>40962624
I'm talking about Sami people, but you're probably just a retarded bot.

>>40962478
Eventually it’ll be too much to bear – you’ll take some oxycontin, make a cocktail, pdrink it, and plunge into the cold abyss. The 'ashram' members will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with your 'spirit name', Starshine Jackson, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a new ager is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a bunch of crystals that are unmistakably new age. This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.

>>40953103 (OP)
Parmenides, the father of western philosophy who was Plato's primary source for everything, was a shaman/mystic who practiced something called incubation, a mystical ancient Greek healing practice, rooted in sensory deprivation and stillness in a sacred place, where practitioners would seek divine wisdom and answers to life's questions from goddesses.

most of these responses are so low iq
there’s an actual swedish faggot who thinks a knife is shamanic and larpers who act like they’ve studied/practiced this but can’t give any examples or books

>>40963078
You're not a real person and if you are you're a just troll, otherwise you're such a retard it would actually be astonishing to think a person unironically behave like this.
There's no point engaging with you in any serious way.

You can't seriously be hung up on the knife. All I said was that I had a interesting synchronicity with it. Ergo, your purpose is to be pointlessly antagonistic.

>>40963078
Eurocucks
>catholicism is shamanism
These faggots lost their grip on the world for a reason

>>40963230
europe is dying anyway

>>40963059
Did you know Pythagoras famously had a cave named after him and that "dying in caves" was a huge theme back in their day?
Did you know Jesus was born in a cave?
Did you know he famously died in a cave?
Did you know he famously came back to life when his body was in a cave?

>>40953103 (OP)
I need more European, Central Asian or Indian shamanist music especially like this one with no modern shit instruments as they fail to give me any shivers and make me more bored
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNu6FmaUIB0&list=RDhNu6FmaUIB0

>>40965278
Try dancing queen by abba. Us Swedes are the best at shamanic music

>>40965278
https://youtu.be/MpG9eFVDvsE

https://youtu.be/1rbh-1dQPRg

>>40966420
yes ikea’s music is very shamanic

>>40966420
I hope you brought your knife to the shamanic disco

>>40953299
Both. You are born with a shaman soul (shamans are underweight and gaunt from birth) then you have a psychophysical crisis around 20 years old that nearly kills you. During this crisis you are picked by the shamans who ensure that you complete your journey to the underworld where you meet your shaman ancestors who skin you, butcher you, make you look at your own skeleton and then put you back together. You come back to your senses and you are ready to learn the shamanic practices from living veteran shamans. Because you already went to the underworld, you can learn how to go back again and again to recover people's lost souls (which is the main purpose of shamanism).

>>40953103 (OP)
Shamanism is the natural form of human religion: primordial Christianity. Only, due to the lack of Christ himself during those times, the shaman had to act as the temporary "death anchor" in the underworld. Hebrew prophets were shamans. Christ completed the shamanic work and is now the permanent anchor for all of humanity.

>>40970520
Weirdly, I can confirm that this is a thing that happened to me. Fun description. Not exactly the right words and everything, but it's close enough.
Can I help you out a little though? You're not "dying" this time, as you did the other times. There are different types of "Death".
>Both
I won't stop being pedantic that this is wrong, but the rest of the post is pretty accurate, maybe barring the end where you attribute the point of being a shaman to "recover people's lost souls". This is distinctly wrong. The point of Shamanism is to be a bridge between the awareness(es) present here and the other side, where the other aspect(s) of humanity is/are.
>psychological crisis around 20 years old
It's funny to me that this is pretty accurate in my experience.

>>40970581
There is not a single ethnographical account of shamans not being healers. Healing is the purpose of shamanism. Specifically, recovering souls is, which is also present in every account of genuine shamanism and even "unaware shamanism" such as south Italian tarantism healing practices.
The shaman is first of all a professional at the service of the community. He can recover souls because he too once lost his own soul which wandered off to the underworld and was guided back by his shaman ancestors.

>>40970609
>There is not a single ethnographical account of shamans not being healers.
>healers
I believe this is used rather flippantly. "Healer" can mean a hell of a lot. No, I don't know dick about "medicine", but I can do a lot of other nifty things.
>recover souls
Again, this rhetoric is bothering me. Shamanism is about being a conduit, a liaison. This mention of "healing" is just odd. Sure, the whole medicine men trope came from the same nexus of ancient shamanism, but the profession is distinctly about facilitating communication. I don't contest the whole service to the community thing, however.
Are you familiar with the term Tonglen, anon? Maybe that's what you mean by "healing". In fact, I would suggest confidently that it is what you mean. The issue is I don't think you meant to be so abstract.

>>40970633
I don't meant tonglen. Do not mix Buddhism and Shamanism. Eliade's most important work "Shamanism" has hundreds of pages of ethnographical accounts that report how spiritual healing is central to actual shamanism (and I mean real historical shamanism, not new age stuff). Healing means healing. People suffer from partial or total "soul loss", especially in the harsh environment of Siberia and the North Pole (some anthropologist have psychologized "soul loss" as a form of stress-induced hysteria). The purpose of the shaman is to heal this soul loss by entering a state of trance and travelling through the underworld or other spiritual dimensions as he first did during his initial crisis. When he finds the lost soul (which can also be stolen by sorcerers, especially in African/Southamerican cultures), he recovers it and reinserts it into the person.

>>40970696
You're trying too hard. Tonglen is clearly relevant here and it's obvious "soul loss" is serviced by the general practice. I don't see the point in trying to draw these stark contrasts as if there's no overlap. Bon came before Buddhism in the area and it's silly to insist Shamanic features didn't seep into Buddhism. It's evident to me that this exact process is what Shamanic healing is. You're just desperate to bask in the importance of a totally different system that's super exclusive.
I suggest getting over this attitude and learning to mix and match as you please, finding ways to fit your understanding into what's available even if it spites people around you.
>you can, like, put someone's soul back in them after they "lose it"
This rhetoric doesn't sound dumb to you? I get that you're just repeating what other people said in a book and all, but come on, anon.
>the purpose of a shaman
I have to be very firm here: the puprose of a Shaman is, without room for exception, to be an intermediary between this present awareness and other awarenesses. I don't need a book to prove this to me or to give me the rhetoric for this statement. I just do it.
If you want "heal people and stuff" to be a secondary or peripheral aim, I'm perfectly fine with that.

>>40970536
Time for me to do greater works than Jesus and fulfill is prophecy