Thread 40965949

The Ars Goetia clearly talks about SEEING demons when you summon them. Not “imagining” them, not “astral projecting” their form, not playing make-believe with your own head. Yet modern occultists keep pushing this nonsense about “visualizing” or “inner conversations” with spirits, which is outright cope.
So there are only two possibilities:

-They don’t want to deal with us anymore since medieval times, probably because nowadays there’s a higher risk of being recorded or properly documented and henceforth bothered by too many people.

-It was all fake from the start.

>>40965949 (OP)
I know a demon that goes by the name Jessica that fingers butts.

>>40965966
it was all fake then

>>40965949 (OP)
No it doesn't. It just describes their appearance. It's actually pretty scant with the details. I could cope and say that they only appear to super serious practitioners and that people generally just aren't good enough to force one to appear in a pillar of sulfurous flames, but I honestly have no idea. I have summoned one and they talk to you in your head, occasionally through other people but mostly through your head. It's what I imagine schizophrenia feels like, but the line of conversation is coherent and they respond rationally to what you say. I am convinced that it's real based on my own experiences. Unlike with psychotic hallucinations, you can force them to leave. I assume in the Ars Goetia when their appearances are described, it is actually a description of the internal image that was planted in their mind when they summoned the demon. You aren't supposed to visualize, that's muddying the waters. Having said all of this, don't bother. They're ontologically evil, and worse, totally useless.

>>40965949 (OP)
Maybe once modern societies start openly giving their first borns to the flame will we start seeing such beings manifest again. Man is too secular, ignorant, and weak to be of use to these principalities. They would much rather receive their feast of smoke and blood through abortion and underground ritual sacrifice, whilst keeping man satiated with technology and atheism.

>>40965949 (OP)
None of it is real bro. Magic isn't real. It's time to put the fairy tale books down and grow up.

>>40965949 (OP)
Have you considered maybe the texts themselves embellished and lied? You think just because something is written down that makes it true?

>>40967083
Why are you on /x/?

It is all fake.
There is nothing out there, there is only vast cold space and science. Nothing, literally nothing outside of science. Seriously.

>>40965949 (OP)
Its incredible how the western skeptic always have absolutely no idea of what hes talking about or the meanings behind it. May the light found you guys one day, your science is simply a frog trapped inside a hole who thinks what he sees above him is all there is.

>>40967221
https://youtu.be/MzCLLHscMOw?si=Iri4Yh6JtbX0yP7Z

>>40967212
to bring light to lost hearts

>>40967344
But you're the blind one, fedora, and the wrost type, the one whos proud of its own ignorance,

>>40965949 (OP)
I can't because you're correct.
This board shares a lot of users from r9k and hm .
Attention whoring homos

>>40965949 (OP)
Invoke vs evoke brother

>>40965949 (OP)
Aren't they more like shadowy apparitions or similar?

all the Demons got killed of by the Catholic Church, they just kept summoning them and killing them until there were no more left.

>>40967523
Wtf pretty sure it's the opposite. Demons kept possessing and killing off high ranking church officials until now where they're either all or almost all demon possessed. The catholic church is demon run.
References: rate of child rape by priests
Pope francis and lgbt being welcomed openly into the church

>>40967523
Yeah, nah... exorcisms are on the rise. You cast out demons in Jesus' name, but it doesn't say you kill them.

>>40967559
Modern exorcism is the pharmaceutical industry. Which is ironic given that it is mainly used for possession as well.

>>40967628
Regardless, it's in response to something else that's on the rise - possessions. So clearly the catholic church does fuck all. Whether that's intentional or indicative of their lack of power I don't know. But there's no "demons got killed by the Catholic Church"

>>40967542
people dont seem to realize that yhvh is a blood egregore and those who created it are the arch enemies of the goetia
tell me something abrahamists, why is blood sacrifice ok if its dedicated to yhvh but its a grave sin if its dedicated to goetia?
and dont tell me well we dont sacrifice humans anymore, only animals, because we all know that (((they))) consider goy to be animals
as per usual, there's far more in heaven and earth than dreamt of in your philosophies

>>40967652
Blood sacrifice isn't permitted by God Jews just persist in doing it because they're retarded. Sacrifice was punitive in nature, you didn't just kill animals because God liked watching them suffer and die. You put your sins upon the animal and it perished with them, you also lose the animal as a resource. The last sacrifice to God was Christ, whom the sins of all mankind were put upon and died with him on the cross. It is no longer necessary or acceptable to offer animal sacrifices. Obviously a demon doesn't care about your sins, and just enjoy sacrifices because they like to larp as God and watch things die.

Nobody able to tell us how to perform a real summoning event and prove us wrong then?GMDGM

>>40967678
Why would anyone just tell you how to do something so dangerous you dumbass

>>40967667
well that's part of the point, the creator would not require such blood sacrifices, but egregores and noncorporeal entities pretty much do
you can go ahead and believe in the pharisee fairy tale of christ,
but he was a man like you or I and he worked for his spiritual powers just like you or I would have to
it is a meme of the pharisees that god must fuck your mom in order for you to have spiritual powers
the council of nicea was effectively the stork in the animal house parade
and face it any guy back then who'se virgin wife wound up pregnant and it wasnt he who did it,
would have given her cement shoes and put her at the bottom of the nearest pond

>>40967685
Oh right just refuting falsicability by this shit has for sure never happened to me lmao
I don’t care about danger, okay? Just tell me how to do it :)

>>40967687
>the creator would not require such blood sacrifices,
Why's that? He did. You're just wrong. Now what?
>it is a meme of the pharisees that god must fuck your mom in order for you to have spiritual powers
God didn't have sex with Mary. Mary is an eternal virgin. God is capable of creating life miraculously. Do you think he had sex with the clay he used to sculpt Adam? How are you saying that Christ isn't the son of God and calling other people pharisees? Do you even know who those people were?

>>40967696
I don't care whether or not you believe it, I am totally happy with the outcome that you smugly walk away believing you're smarter than everyone for nobody being willing to tell you how to ruin your life and die.

>>40967722
You sound like a wiccan foid lmaoo
Tell me how to summon one or get the fuck out with your crap

>>40967368
Im not even the original poster i just wanted to interact with your vision of our reality little anon

>>40967702
>no, the jews said they need to give blood sacrifices to one of the angry jealous gods who's really intent on being the only one
>so yeah since this was written its unassailable truth
>now dont mention passages like "then he will be like us" because there's only one
face it, you have to pick and choose which passages you like in order to have the position you do
>God didn't have sex with Mary
>God just needs to be your direct father otherwise you cant have spiritual powers
>and reminder, any methods to cultivate spiritual powers are le debil
this is why I dont normally bother with you people, you have to cherry pick a story and ignore all kinds of shit in order to believe what you do
are you dumb enough to believe the earf is only 6000 years old, too?

>>40967728
the shapes on the floor are for protection, for those who have cultivated nothing and have no personal protection
but with a bit of flux in your gut, you too can banish entities
if you've got no juice then they probably wont care about you, unless you're offering them something
and their currency is unpalatable
but if you cultivate some juice then you will get visitors, its just that simple
they do get bored and leave if you ignore them

>>40967776
What are they looking for in exchange exactly? How can I we useful to them?

>>40967782
some things are of lesser value, like displaying sigils or speaking well of them
some things are of greater value, like sacrifices
it is best to not enter into any pacts with any noncorporeal entities as a rule of thumb
usually people try to get them to do shit
and a loosely made pact may have finer details revealed later that are a problem

>>40967807
Be technical bud, how to evocate a visible entity then

>>40965949 (OP)
>The Ars Goetia clearly talks about SEEING demons when you summon them.
>Yet modern occultists keep pushing this nonsense about “visualizing” or “inner conversations” with spirits, which is outright cope.
The Ars Goetia also explicitly contains rituals for receiving messages from a spirit while you sleep, without ever actually seeing it or hearing it or even sensing it in proximity.

>>40967854
I know but I am not interested in stuff where personal biases could mess with my perception of the ritual.
I don’t want to be mistaken

>>40967834
Bro, every time I see some anon ask these supposed necromancers to describe their ritual procedure the post mostly goes unanswered. Or the response is so flimsy or they shoot back with something deflective like "DYOR I'm not spoonfeeding you". I swear, 4chan is the most low-effort way to larp. I'm not completely skeptical to this shit though.

>>40967344
You're doing a horrible job.

>>40967869
Same, have been trying for some time, even visited the “become a living god” crap where they tell you it all happens in your mind and (only) higher level magicians with decades od experiences are able to “get demons to play playstation with them” I am not kidding, those were their very words yet they have no method to suggest in obtaing such result.
All a ridicule larp

>>40967877
Afaik this goetic stuff falls into the traditional grimoire practice and the post-modern psychological model of magic. The cutoff seems to be Crowley saying that demons are just parts of the human brain in the introductory essay to his edition of the Goetia. A few posts before mine some anon was going on about cultivating "juice" and banishing entities. That seems more like a modern mixing in of techniques from other traditions. The LBRP isn't in the Goetia and talk of cultivation is more appropriate to Taoist magic It's like they're all larpers incorporating whatever they've read from wherever.

>>40967728
Not my problem

>>40967770
I've spoken to you before you're just insane

>>40967955
Exactly, they're incorporating every hint of stuff they find around in a big crazy new age pot.
At the same time I remain skeptical because I am well aware people with such real old powers wouldn't bother telling others how to replicate such results on 4chan and would be very jealous of their findings. the same way billionaires are not on little forums spreading knowledge/high revenue contacts diluting their edge.
It's hard to falsify the hypothesis but i am 99% sure this is a larp at this point

>>40968012
Welp. Perhaps the only good magicians are the ones who sell a lot of books or courses.

>>40968113
Or those who succesfully made a real pact with some demon and never ever talked about it somewhere

>>40968128
That's practically as good as nothing ever happening. If you talk some shit and can't back it up, don't blame other people for thinking you're a bullshitting larper. Whatever hypothetical success you supposedly enjoy clandestinely, have at it. I'd say it's more likely you had a good ad campaign and exposure on social media.

>>40968150
nah dude I'm OP, i'm just bullshitting people that usually say something along those lines ahaha

>>40965949 (OP)
I'll tell you one thing, with everyone talking about spells and shit like a cook book, if it was that easy people would be on flying carpets and the sky would change color like a gaming computer.

And I've seen magic, I just don't have any reason to think it's terrestrial. Gods do it.

>>40968338
We really have no way of experiencing something of that calibre ourselves then...

>>40965949 (OP)
If you don't see them at least in the manner of signs then you're not doing it well enough. Daemons are spread out so to speak, and their intention in places, powers, and self really occur when these parts of themselves clump up. Ritual is meant to gather and clump its force in front of you and the amount clumped influences how much appears. Everything emits vibrations, so very light clumping can still "influence thoughts" and whatnot, but as more coalesces you may with astral sight (seeing with your eyes spiritual layers) see signs or shapes, perhaps you hear clear voices which are not in your head, your incense and smoke takes the shape of the daemon, etc. and so on up.

Sigh... too many casuals speaking in vague hand-wavey language with no specifics. I think it's time I moved on from /x/.

>>40968475
Sure, I understand what you mean, but are you sure everybody experiences signs on the first try provided I follow the Goetia rules? How are you able to track the phenomenon straight up to the demon and not on self biases such as nuns praying or a scientologist sure of feeling thetans?

OP, if he's real, doesn't understand second sight.

>>40968726
Wdym if I am real and what about second sight ahaha

>>40965949 (OP)
You summon them in your mind by doing drugs i think

>>40968804
not a demon then, just an altered state

>>40967834
this is mostly a matter of is there some level of interaction going on that would warrant it from their perspective
consider it costs some energy for them to do it
everything in the universe is an energy exchange
the fact that 99.9999% of people's workings being utter shit tier is evidence that they're not doing anything worthwhile or have worthwhile cultivated potential to the point where there would be this level of interaction
if there's some investment opportunity for them, they'll consider it
they are under no compunction to appear to any of us
its not quite the same bar for them to interact at all with you, but as most none of us can see through our meat suits, our vision is necessarily limited to a very small range of the spectrum and since their normal state is not one that reflects our visible light...cost involved
so, consider that when you bitch about stuff like this

>>40967863
this is yet another reason why you need good stillness meditation under your belt

>>40967955
>The LBRP isn't in the Goetia and talk of cultivation is more appropriate to Taoist magic It's like they're all larpers incorporating whatever they've read from wherever.
there's many different techs,
but stillness and the amplitude it provides are not inconsequential by any means
regardless of the lineage of techs used,
the mage with no internal power is impotent
when you have some cultivated potential, then there's some inoffensive way to energetically compensate them for their efforts
but when you have none, you are a beggar asking for things, most likely for free
the fuck is in it for them, do you think they give a shit if you believe they exist or not?
these are just common realities of the situation we're discussing here
for when you have some cultivated potential, you dont need to draw shapes on the floor to have some means of protection
you want to banish some bastard that's bothering you, its easy, if you have some cultivated potential to express
open palm points and arm channels express energy easily enough, all that's needed is a good pulse at 'em
but there again, if you have cultivated none of this and are doing these things, you're doing it halfass and are asking for trouble
because you will be in the position of a beggar wanting something and having nothing to offer, unless you have no conscience and will do sacrificey things to make up your end of the energy bargain

>>40967978
you may think so, but unfortunately you will open a new set of eyes without every having realized the energy raping you've undergone just prior

>>40968012
>I am well aware people with such real old powers wouldn't bother telling others how to replicate such results
this guy's funny, he's told the simplest habit that can improve his health and give some of his own energy to workings he might wish to do, and he's still so stuck on how to do it
its almost like being stuck on figuring out how to turn your hand over
shitty attitude will get you stuck places

>>40968128
I've known people
never went well
not a single time
I've not done these things as I prefer to have my own potentials and not owe anyone for it
as one of my teachers said, this lady was asking me to open all these points for her and I was like why, you wouldnt own the result, it would not be your advancement

>>40968722
>are you sure everybody experiences signs on the first try
all depends on the effort
training for things is simple, but difficult in that it takes a little time if you're doing it right and a long time if ever if you're not quite or straight up wrong

Stil not a single molecule in this thread about how the fuck am I supposed to do it.

This is all a giant larp lol

>>40970717
Ok, larper.

To get a visible appearance you will probably need a blood sacrifice, many references to entities needing blood energy. Also nobody is doing any of the summoning rituals in the old grimoires correctly as they were just notebooks and missed out important steps known only to experienced magicians.

>>40971684
>To get a visible appearance you will probably need a blood sacrifice, many references to entities needing blood energy. Also nobody is doing any of the summoning rituals in the old grimoires correctly as they were just notebooks and missed out important steps known only to experienced magicians.
>these things are what you need
>i don't know what they are

>>40965949 (OP)
There is a 3rd option in your own account: The "modern occultists" you mention failed to manifest the demons but huffed much hopium and told themselves that their imaginary friend was the real demon all along. Perhaps those who are successful are unable or unwilling to share their experiences.

>>40971735
>many references to entities needing blood energy

Are you fucking dumb?, ESL? Lack reading comprehension?

>>40971755
>Are you fucking dumb?
No, but you are. Claiming there are important steps that were known only to experienced magicians heavily implies you know what the steps are, but you don't. Did an experienced magician tell you that, but didn't tell you the steps? Why? 99% of x is compulsive liar nonsense and that's about creating a sense that you have a surplus of knowledge others don't.

You don't.

>>40967863
Well, there's your problem - you think that you should approach magic in the same way you should approach washing dishes. Actually, seeing, hearing or touching things is totally unimportant. Spirits do not have bodies. Humans have bodies, and even then we HAVE (not ARE!) bodies. Any subtle operation you engage with will, at best, engage the body only peripherally.
>"But if these subtle operations are so subtle, how am I going to know if I am doing things right and if everything is working?"
You practice discernment and develop this skill.
With all that said, I do not recommend summoning demons.

>>40971103
you've already been told
one can pretty much draw a sigil and call 'em forth with their intent
but this doesnt work very well when a totally uncultivated person attempts it
so you can be rest assured you will likely never have any contact

Not a single hint of what’s needed yet

>>40972993
>says I will fail because I am inexperienced
>doesn’t deliver what I need to employ

Has no one brought this up yet?
https://www.esotericarchives.com/tritheim/trchryst.htm

You fags really live in a fanfic universe. It's really pathetic.

>>40975452
And you're just a fag.

>>40967221
>tips fedora

>>40975964
I accept your concession.

>>40973830
>doesnt even get he was told itt and is too dense to understand

>>40967652
Well yes, but normalfags are animals

>>40968722
Actual replier here.

On the first try by the rules? Hell no. At the end of the day, sure ritual implements work as a channel but the magician is the ultimate channel himself. Your own personal ability factors into the equation and some random bozo may get spooky things maybe, sure, but there is a skillset and psychic senses as well as mental resilience and physical ability to factor into the equation. The physical ritual is half the story, all of it also has a component to do with your own energy and self with equivalents, and in dire straights those parts can even substitute for the physical (but for real effectiveness, you need both). It's known grimoires need "keys" to read, your own skills are the actual keys.

But even for magicians, you need experience with the current and time with the daemons, it is advisable to introduce yourself to them first, begin work and evocations without asking anything yet to experience and improve upon connections, and when you actually task the daemon to observe far more strict adherence and rituals to conjure and clump its consciousness the best possible so it can carry out your request.

>>40965949 (OP)
>wtf why can’t i see them this is bullshit!
wow, you you really just decided that’s how it works, huh

>>40976741
Finally a good answer.
How do I know when I channeled correctly it’s time to start asking for things? Which sign will I be able to observe?

>>40978078
Good answers likely stop here because "you will just know" is about how it is. When you hear a spirit or see something in front of you it "feels" completely different than when it is in your head or questionable. You can just sort of tell when something is inside your head or is outside of your head, and if it isn't obvious enough to you then you aren't ready or "things aren't coming in clearly." Now this doesn't mean you CAN'T ask, you still clumped some consciousness, but be prepared for far less effectiveness or for the request to not even be heard. Any magician who says things are visualization or psychological is full of shit, imagination and dreams and the like are similar to wading in the shallows on the shore of a beach and you can tell when you exit the shallows and start swimming in the water when your feet come up and waves and currents start taking you places on their own. You will know if it's a good time, and if you don't know then it's not a good time.

>>40965966
That's pretty hot ngl

>>40965949 (OP)
"Magic" in all it's iterations is nothing more than performance psychology and conformation bias. Add drugs with it and you'll believe anything.

>>40978366
Dubs confirmed. Praise KEK. Magic is bs. Irony overload. End program.

>>40978319
What book do you suggest me?
Also do you have a personal experience you’d like to share in this regard?

>>40978366
I mean, even if, it still guarantees you the chance to maximize your placebo effect to the higher range thus giving you strength, concentration etc.
I would not dismiss it lightly, I think it has the potential to help, more than prayers at least

>>40978489
>What book do you suggest me?
Actual practice. Gonna be frank, I learned mostly from others and just read for reference materials and the like if I need something outside of an actual grimoire. Just pick something and a set of solid universal practices and start grinding your senses. The guy who sits meditating imagining a sphere around himself every day for 10 minutes stands a better chance than the guy who has an encyclopedia of knowledge but does nothing, just practice rituals and AP, learn to lucid dream, and your starting shitty evocations after a while and be honest to yourself with what you experience and your progress rather than embellish and you will improve.

>Also do you have a personal experience you’d like to share in this regard?
I don't want to "prep" your experience. Without saying too much too, "appearances and powers may not be as described exactly," if you pursue evocation try not to obsess or read too much into appearances or powers initially and instead just take the sigil and process and go. It's a healthy experiment and learning process to compare notes afterwards with official information after a few daemons and summoning them a few times.

any other suggestion?

>>40965949 (OP)
>modern occultists
Well there's your problem right there.

If you're not getting results, maybe git gud.