Thread 40997932

Do we go to heaven or hell? recantation? Nonexistence? You tell me.

>>40997932 (OP)
idk

>>40997943
i am answered, thanks

No matter what happens, you will never leave the place where you are right now.

>>40997956
>you will never leave the place where you are right now.

>>40997943
Thank you so much. Never in my life have i ever seen such wise words

>>40997956
Just went to take a shit. Theory DEBUNKED. but seriously what do you mean by that, generally curious

>>40997932 (OP)
Go watch some videos of Dolores canon or read Journey of Souls by Newton. Long story short there is an afterlife, there is no hell, and we reincarnate. Dolores canon said in one of her talks that the basic idea is that life is a school (this isn’t exactly ground breaking, eastern and even esoteric western religious traditions have said this) and earth is one of the toughest schools in the universe because it’s incredibly material, lots of emotions but were sent here to experience existence and learn from mistakes and ideally become better beings to break the reincarnation cycle and move on to the higher plane of existence. Dolores has a great analogy where she says imagine you’re an actor in a stage play, you get dressed and you have the basic outline of the script and you say ok now we’re gonna go out on stage and perform this play. But as soon as you walk out onto the stage you forget you’re an actor and all you know is that you’re just the person you’re supposed to play and you forgot all that stuff from backstage and now things are just happening the way they’re gonna happen. Alan watts also has a similar analogy about the dreamer forgetting he’s in a dream, that’s a good one if you can find it on YouTube. Basically he likens it to you go to sleep and forget your dreaming and you live an entire life just to experience the thrill of not know what comes next.

>>40998083
This

>>40997932 (OP)
pic related

>>40998088
Why did you delete the Gnostic pasta? Post it again and some more please, I enjoyed the excerpt

>>40998083
oh ok, thanks for the response bro. 2 questions
>How did she come of this knowledge, was it through mediation? or some revelation?
>do you know the rough idea on how to break the cycle we are in now

>>40998165
I encourage you to either watch the videos or read her extensive collection of books. But both her and Micheal Newton figured this out through hypnotherapy. They both could regress people back to previous lives but also see where they went after they died in a previous life. Cannons basic outline to break out I think is to do what you’re meant to do but the problem is none of us remembers what we’re supposed to do when we get here. I know she said once in an interview that if you kill yoruself that guarantees you have to come back to redo it. She said too a lot of people try to come back as a special needs person because those are the hardest lives to live and some people just want to get it over with but those can be difficult lives. You basically have a spiritual growth plan and that entails you have to go through certain scenarios. Both mention that we have a group of souls that we reincarnate with and those are usually spouses or close friends and you’re supposed to help each other grow while you’re here. I can’t recall the specifics from cannon though, I just remember the general thrust from her talks being we’re here to go through experiences and if we don’t complete the task then we have to come back and do it again.

>>40997932 (OP)
I've stuck to daoist cosmology for a long time now. Since i trust their representations of other dynamics and i'm able to confirm them, i do trust by extension their takes on the "afterlife".

>>40998349
Generally these situations too are ones you might have failed previously in a past life, so maybe you have things you struggle with right now, you might be sent back to get through that hardship or break out of that bad behavior. Not sure if that helps. Of course the religious traditions I mentioned previously would say it’s all an effort to know and understand the divine and the divinity inside yourself and those around you. For instance in the Bhagavad-Gita Sri Krishna says the highest goal is to know the lord and always seek him in everything you do.

>>40998083
>>40998349
>>40998381
>Hell isn't real
Yawn. That's the best litmus test to identify charlatans. The woman channeling the spirits may not be one, but the spirits are, probably just vampires.

>>40998393
To each their own I suppose

>>40998435
Wow, nice high horse. Use your teeny pretty little brain for a minute: look at this world, do you see the variety of extreme, hell-like suffering many beings go through? Look at subsaharan nigger africa where at least 30% of women have been raped at least once in their lives (real statistic BTW). I mean just look at videos from the Ukraine war, soldiers agonizing after losing a limb to a drone or something. Brutal to the maximum extreme. Isn't that hell on earth? Why doubt hell not-on-Earth? It's just the next lower level on the spectrum of the pain-pleasure complex. If there are paradises in the astral realms - which the astral vampires/larpers call afterlife - then there are also hellish places.

>>40998165
I also would like to dovetail the Telepathy Tapes into this discussion. If you listen to that full podcast series you can see a similar thread that relates to all this as well.

>>40998452
Brother, the only hell that exists is the one we’re in now on this earth, I never denied that.

>>40998471
sure go ahead, i want this to be an open discussion

>>40998372
do you think actions and "karma" within this life, carry on into afterlife

>>40998475
Do you think you have been damned for your past actions and now live in hell

>>40998520
Yes, in daoism you've got "lunhui" which is pretty much like the buddhist samsara. There is a cycle of reincarnation, and regardless of if you immediately dissolve after death because your shen is weak, or if you manage to keep your shen together and live on as a "gui" or whatever other flavor of ghost/spirit, you're still affected by causality and your actions when you were alive.

This is because the way you live, every action you take, and how the environment pressures you, etches patterns into your shen, and you too etch patterns into others and the environment. It's simple causality no matter how much one tries to mystify it, you live with the consequences of your actions and you get transformed by them, even if so gradually you don't notice at times. And this extends to the afterlife and reincarnation, because even though the shen dissolves for reincarnation the causal patterns persist and are carried in the qi that will form the new shen and jing in the next life.

It's way more complex than this if you introduce other more obscure concepts, but that's pretty much the gist of it. Things like hell or heaven do have parallels in daoism, but they're not eternal, as nothing is really eternal. And they're also not seen as punishing or rewarding, they're seen more like transitional phases where kinks are ironed out or potential is allowed to be cultivated further.

>>40998597
very informative thanks. 1 question
>why do you believe believe in Daoism

>>40998531
No

>>40997932 (OP)
Play your cards right and you might get freejacked somewhere pleasant.

>>40998625
Like i said, i can confirm their metaphysical fundamentals personally through some of their praxes, so i have tangible proof they've built their framework on solid ground and it's coherent. You don't need to subscribe to daoism though, many other frameworks around the world use similar concepts, they're all talking about the same things one way or the other.

I just personally feel daoism to be more easy on how i process things, it just fits better with me.

>>40997932 (OP)
I don’t know but I reckon Trump will get get fisted in a lake of fire for eternity.

>>40998640
hopefully

>>40997932 (OP)
Depends on what you believe for heaven or hell. From what I've read it seems like people end up in the astral when they die. Now sometimes it's their own personal heaven or hell or a shared afterlife from some sort of belief system. Eventually someone will probably come along and be like shinji get in the meat mech if you go along with it boom you're reincarnated. You can tell these people to fuck off but they'll keep coming back trying to convince you. The movie What dreams may come is a decent example.

There's a lot of diversity in 'afterlifes'. Some people don't realize they've died or they don't believe in an afterlife and the belief is strong enough and they just wander around as a ghost until someone comes and gets them.

Supposedly there's a kind of ring around earth where it's just a mass of bodies of people trying to have sex after they died. They're just kind of stuck.

I think the most important things you can do to prepare for death is meditation, lucid dreaming, and astral projection.

>>40998475
Well I apologize if I have come as rude. As I see it, if there's any hell, it's as real as this world or me and you... which is to say that it may not be real in the end.

>>40998741
Oh, like that theory that whatever you believe in will be real. As in a buddhist might be recanted. Or a christian might go to heaven or hell.
That might be a possible reason why there are different forms of magick and miracles appearing within different religions and cutlers.

>Also why are they all trying to have sex

>>40998760
Another theory for hell i heard, is that hell is just a sate of mind, a frequency or vibration pre say.

That looks like the P.T loading screen

>>41001226
I was worried about character count getting to large so cut stuff.

Pretty much this world is a dream and you can alter it. You just go into another dream afterwards in the astral based on your beliefs. You either create the realm yourself or join an already existing one. The giant flesh ring is people trying to indulge in their baser instincts and are unaware of being dead. That and people not even being aware they've died kind of drives home the idea you should try to be aware when you die. So those practices I mention hopefully will help for that.

>>40997932 (OP)
What an original thread.

We need to understand consciousness.

we reincarnate unless we're strong enough not to.

like you remember or they rmeeber yuu, like if ar deat younwill be remeberred

>>41002110
Always nice to refresh one in a while

>>41002117
this

>>41002151
What happens when we are strong enough to not reincarnate, do we go to another realm of existence, or something else

>>40997932 (OP)
We begin a new form existence in a new 'life' which could be like this one or something beyond our comprehension, and a new begins after that, and so on. Existence is a school for our soul.

>>40998083
What is it with you and Dolores canon?

>>41002614
There’s nothing specific to her she just has a ton of material on this subject. I also mentioned Micheal newton who has a great book that basically aligns with cannon. What’s your hang up with cannon?

>>40997932 (OP)
We go into a state of unconscious death, then get resurrected into judgement day thousands of years in the future.
Because you'd be unconscious the entire time, it would be like a time skip.
Then on Judgement day you are judged on the biggest stage of your life and all of your secrets will be revealed to millions.
Then from there depending on what you did and who you allied yourself with will depend on if you get a pass to go the reborn earth, or suffer permanent death

>>41004539
are you judged on a some "universal" concept of morals; as in, were you objectively a good or bad person. or do you have to follow any religious teachings

>>40998060
A different "you"
Full of poo
Mind's not same
Atoms moved
Thoughts haved passed
With your gas
Ego wiped
Like your ass

>>41004780
very poetic. is it like that one theory that at every moment you are entering a new reality

>>41004721
Honestly, I am not even sure myself anymore. All I know is that it requires discipleship of a great man, that was perhaps a little more than just a man

>>40997932 (OP)
In my heart of hearts, I would probably say we just stop existing. The agnostic part of my brain always wonders though. I've been thinking about hell a lot recently so it probably means if it does exist, that's where I'm going when I die. I might prefer to be reincarnated as a cockroach or something instead of being tortured for eternity in hell. Either way, my afterlife is probably going to be a bad one, but one might be less bad than the other.

Bump for interest

>>40997932 (OP)
Had a NDE and I saw my dead grandpa and my dead dog in their best years. I had never seen my grandpa with brown hair I only remember the old man with white hair and his old face but there he were in his best years, same with my dog.
In my NDE my grandpa told me that my time to die is not yet and I have things to do.
So I'm 95% certain all living things go to heaven/God

I'll die believing in
>afterlife with many "dream" worlds to lucidly explore and eventually you might choose to come back either to earth or some other "physical" plane

We die we are judged by God then God gives us a judgment based on our ability knowledge actions and then punishes us or rewards us. I don't believe in an eternal lake of fire . But I can see people who choose bad getting an eternal shittier planet then people who chose well.

But I don't know how merciful or giving God is.

>>40998741
>Supposedly there's a kind of ring around earth where it's just a mass of bodies of people trying to have sex after they died. They're just kind of stuck.
Oh shit this is interesting. Where to read more?

>>40998741
>Supposedly there's a kind of ring around earth where it's just a mass of bodies of people trying to have sex after they died. They're just kind of stuck.
This makes me feel bad because back when I was able to pull off lucid dreams and OBE I would quickly try to manifest some hot chick and have sex and most times I just woke up (ironically I've had more sex in random non-lucid dreams). I hope I've matured a bit since then.

>>40997932 (OP)
there are drugs you can take to bring you to death, but you'll also need the antidote to return. unfortunately, these drugs are not well known or documented but they are responsible for most of our religious beliefs and eschatological concepts.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R3pfsUgtL9A

>>40997943
FPBP

>>40997932 (OP)
Huuuuurghhhhh hnnnnmmmg uuuuuughhhhhhhhhh

Fade out into nothing forever.

Pretty much this.

>>41008390
The funniest thing to me is whenever I have a dream just when I'm about to have sex I wake up and nothing happens.

Because I never had it irl, never even held a girl's hand.

Not even mad, it's funny
Like my brain can't fill the blanks and my dream crashes to desktop whenever sex is about to happen :D

>>41009387
That's good because you can't get vampirized by entities. Sex is something entirely overrated, much different from porn, which is also overrated, very ordinary and run-of-the-mill when you get down do it. The seeking impulse, FOMO etc. is way stronger the actual thing.

>>40997932 (OP)
If you accept your death, then you'll be confused for awhile as you adjust to the afterlife. Earth is dense and slow, but there you can have a thought that becomes an instant reality. You'll then create a "place" for yourself that comforts you until you adjust to Reality. Then you'll be met by spirits playing someone you trust, and they'll guide you further. They may be Jesus, Budhha, etc. Then you will face judgment, and see your life, but no god will judge you; you are the judge. You will see your life as others saw it, with all the good you did, and your mistakes, blunders, and how they affected others. There's no Nobodaddy God "there" to judge you because you will be your harshest critic! If you believe that you "deserve" Hell, then you'll go there, until you realize you can leave! You'll go to school and learn the ins-and-outs of your next role, and decide if you want to reincarnate or NOT.
The Earth is a school that teaches spirits about limitation, so you can learn in a place where there are real consequences, real growth, where there are sensations and emotions, whether "plesure or pain - it's a limited place to gain experience, and learn right and wrong - things you can't explore and are denied you in the "afterlife". Your Soul learns and remembers, even tough your "avatar" doesn't remember your past-lives. You learn about parallel realities where another "you", but your same Soul, made different decisions, and had different consequences!

>>41010092
Thanks for the detailed response, i am some what drawn to this idea for some reason.

2 questions:

>Where does all this growth in your soul go to? (Does it ascend you into higher levels of existence or something?)

>are the spirits something you can become?

>how did you come to this knowable, was it through revelations, through meditation, ect.

>>41010918
lol, It was 3 questions, mb

I've been watching NDE video recently and one thing that I think is funny is that everyone has very different experiences. On top of that a lot of atheist will be flooding through a black void and Hindus will see Vishnu or whatever. Is it all real or is it just a shot of DMT your brain releases to make death less scary?

>>41010918
It's mostly yes, as you gain knowledge and experience. This is basically a summary of Seth's description of the afterlife.

>>41010918

You got a thing attached to you. Goes by a lot of names. Some call it a guardian angel, others call it genius, personal daemon, tutelary spirit, higher self, spirit guide... lots of names for it but its been with you since your soul was generated. That means its been with you through every incarnation... when your soul grows it effects that thing. And you keep coming back here cuz you and it have decided it needs more stuff.

Its you. But its the part of you thats never been here.

>>40997932 (OP)
>Heaven/Hell
>Reincarnation
Why not both?

>>40997932 (OP)
Well, just dying would be too good because that would free us from existence. So this is the best scenario, the best case and probably it is not the right answer because, in life, we aways get the worst. For instance, we live in the Earth and not in Heaven. So when we die I think something happens. We may come back to this world or we may go to a different world. If we think life as a video game which has different levels then once we finish this level we go to the next one until we beat the game and see the ending or maybe we never finish the game and we give up and we will never see the ending, the final credits and stuff. I think casing too exist is just too good to be the case. I think it's reincarnation or you go a different reality.

If there was a God, do you think it regrets creation? You could easily argue there shouldn't have ever been anything considering all the suffering. Non-existence would almost be the fairest option. Eternal continuity after death would give your earthly deeds eternal weight which wouldn't be fair given your lack of knowledge while alive. Life is quite an impossible game. Murder for example has no positive counter measure. What is an objective good deed comparable to an evil deed like murder? There isn't one.

You can spin these questions as much as you like, but we do know you get recycled, but to what degree?

>>40997932 (OP)
Can you die? How do you exist and know right now? How did you come to know in the first place, was it always? Can you recall?

>>41008382
I first came across it in Monroe's book Journey's out of the body. He even tried to get someone out of the pile. He pulled the guy out tried to talk with him but the guy dived right back in and started humping away. I've heard some similar things in random interviews of other people. For example random groups of nude people without genitals like a ken or barbie doll trying to fuck anything that moves. There's enough there that I accept that there's likely a certain percentage of people that die and having nothing but gooning on their minds and get a bit stuck trying to fulfill that desire.

>>40998083
my issue with the "learning" reincarnation theory is like
>brb gotta go learn some things, gonna kill millions of yous
>oh bro to learn I had to become a serial rapist
like what

>>41014002
>If there was a God, do you think it regrets creation?
They've done it many times. "We" keep killing ourselves with computers.

>we do know you get recycled, but to what degree?
Idk why you think you know that. I don't know much about afterlife, and don't think I'm supposed to, but I believe reincarnation doesn't happen. 1. I asked, and 2. It wouldn't make much sense given everything else in the framework. Would be like a car with a gasoline engine and a hydrogen engine just to run accessories like the air conditioner.

bump

>>41016172
>Idk why you think you know that.
Well according to what we know now we do get recycled in a literal sense. Your body decomposes and so on.

>>41018348
dogs are nigger tier animals

>>41018574
saaaaaaaaar

At this point I'm more convinced there's something rather than nothing.

>Soul is a societal construct
>No heaven, hell, or purgatory
>We cease to existence

or

>Reincarnate at different corners of the universe with no memory of past life whatsoever.

>>41010918
This is a personal theory, and I'm not very religious, but the "purpose" for growth is probably because we are all dreams of God who is bored. Even middle management spirits that run things, they probably return to God when there's absolutely nothing interesting to do anymore. It's not a bad thing if true.

>>41012378
My two cents which may be false, why the FUCK would your brain do something nice for you for once? Our brains are cunts most of the time. Why and how would they lie to us to make us sedated. I.e ready for the end? I have a scientific nde book I read from time to time. A majority, a supermajority of like 70-80% if I remember correctly me but feel free to correct me on that, but a majority of NDEs are positive when people have them. That tracks with how most humans are stupid rule following sinners but not necessarily puppy kicking assholes. Besides, if the other side of the veil is so esoteric, we probably NEED familiar symbols to adjusts.

>>41012424
If this is real, the way this works is in tandem with the whole "We're dreaming and you remember yourself when you die." While it's traumatizing for most to die, you wake up and are at once that higher self. It does cheapen us here but this life is a lot more visceral than a dream. If it works the way you say it does, it makes sense and on the other side there's a lot more esoteric emphasis put on how you have a total recall of your infinite past lives but you're all at the same time and it's chill. Like how you could see a new color over there but not here and it just works.tm.

>>40997932 (OP)
>You tell me
NO U

>>40997932 (OP)
The body you used decomposes and you go back to were you came from.

Anything involving aliens, demons, archons or whatever you want just sounds like a load of bullshit to me. God too, in a way, maybe. I believe in the afterlife btw

>>40997943
Unironically the best answer.

bump

>>40998083
idk can i just be a cute anime girl

>>41024937
I'd rather be a bishounen and have sex with a cute anime girl. I'm not even asking for a harem!

>>40998393
Supposedly there isn't a real hell. But if you really believe that there is one and you deserve to go, you will go. The good part is that at some point you will wake up from that dream too.

you reincarnate as a download

I'm a lucid dreamer and I go around asking dream entities about the afterlife. Here are my results so far:

>a self-described "siren angel" singing beautiful music
>an angel saying I would get a hug from her
>a man saying the afterlife is a "game"
>a man saying the afterlife will be "17,000 years of fun, and then 'something' will happen"
>a man said the afterlife will be full of "Sabbath music, and Sabbath Hollywood".
>a boy pointed to the sky and said "You go to Heaven."

I did have one scary dream where my brother told me "You're a terrible person. You're going to the underworld" But I hope that was just a demon...

>>40998083
>Dolores canon said in one of her talks that the basic idea is that life is a school (
A school where you don't get to remember anything you learn, what a load of shit. If we were here for our benefit we wouldn't need to have our memories erased.

>>40998658
Why do people with Trump Derangement Syndrome have gay fantasies about him?

>>40998083
>>40998103
What a load of garbage.
This place is a soul trap.

What do you learn here? How to slave away for some kike for a living in a dead end job? Eating slop, shitting it out, pain, trauma then you have to look forward to the actual death process. I don't mean the death state, I mean the dying part just before you die, which is incredibly painful to an unbelievable degree and it's actually the part most people fear the most. The being dead part isn't shit, it's the process of dying that is terrifying.

Do I think we get reincarnated afterwards? Probably from what I've seen, but I don't for a second believe it's to 'learn how to be a good boy and to correct this never ending backlog of karma that I've apparently racked up (which I can't remember doing because the cunts that have us trapped here erase our fucking memory every time so you don't actually ''learn'' shit as they say you do).

And I swear if I have to hear another NPC telling me 'you wouldn't know how to love or to appreciate all the good things without all the bad things in the world!' I'll fucking lose my shit.
When the few good times roll in, I don't need a backdrop of evil to know that they're good. Evil and death and all of that shit doesn't teach me anything of value, it exists to make us miserable, tortured souls so whatever cunts are holding us here against our will can continue feasting on our misery. That's all. Take that 'it's a lesson, bro' garbage and stick it up your ass. Naive fucking nigger.

>Most people who came back to life don't remember anything.
>The ones who do remember don't seem to be any different from the ones who don't.
Why is that?

>>41026875
Most people can't even remember their dreams every night. Could be something like that. Also, many NDErs report forgetting small or large parts of their NDEs just like how you forget parts of a dream but remember other parts of it.

We go to oppai loli heaven

>>40997932 (OP)
You are surrounded by all people you met in life and they all clap. Exactly as in the last episode of Evangelion.

>>41026954
The dream statistics online are kinda all over the place. One says people remember seven to ten dreams per month while another says only 45% of dreams are remembered. If remembering dreams and NDEs are connected then I guess not being alive can make it harder. I think it's only 17% of people who come back to life remember having an NDE.

>>40997932 (OP)
Depends. I'll start with simple and growing extent of complexity.
>animated, no soul
Dust to dust, they're gone forever.
>soul, atheist
Lack of belief in afterlife leads to individual being left in stasis. They believe they are not alive so they are left lifeless. Very prone to being preyed upon.
>soul, agnostic
Left in slow motion, lack of certainty makes them perpetually lost.
>soul, religious
Religion establishes left and right bounds of their existence. Very high walled garden. Expect up to ~2000 years of passage before forced to return.
>soul, animism/pagan
Fewer bounds of existence, tends to wander farther but not too far from what is familiar.
>soul, psychic, non-explorative
Already pretty familiar with metaphysical existence, but sticks to what is familiar.
>soul, psychic, explorative
Already familiar with higher planes and life is just a momentary transformative event.

That's what I'm aware of. Earth-like humans very rarely reach spiritual planes. It's designed to be very difficult to do so. Imagine a coach bus full of passengers and that's about the extent of what passes towards and upward state for about 250,000 years.

>>40998393
I get your perspective actually.
But I also see this.
Fully omniscient Godlike beings having a petty argument; somehow the conditions revolve around if or if not a human (reincarnated soul) can learn _____ in a lifetime in ______ conditions without the preknowledge.
All this only works if you view the afterlife as a sort of other layer of reality. Like our lives are just plugged in 80 years of growing and poof
This is tangential, but I had a realization this morning about how we have to get cut off our mothers via umbilical cord. These core connections via meat and organ person to new life, crazy, but it made me consider the importance birth must have. Birth MATTERS not certain of time/astrology or what aspects weigh more than another, but all the emotion and jubilance. No wonder hospitals loosh siphon it off (joke not joke)
Oh yeah the Gods arguing are Archons. I picture bird eagles but idk what other anons envision Archons as

>Try to learn more about NDE's and the afterlife
>A small amount of information that's just enough to convince you the afterlife may not be a hoax
>Suddenly there's no more info other than speculation
>Realize that all there is to learn (so far)
>Most scientists don't care
We don't even have proof a soul even exists, but saying our soul is just an illusion sounds even more ridiculious. The whole situation is just sad.