Thread 41032102

I want to escape the cycle of rebirth, but how can I trust the Buddha? Let's say that a certain strain of Buddhism is correct and true; how could I possibly determine which?

For context, it seems to me reincarnation is real and inevitable, regardless of the mechanism. Christianity & Islam are blatantly fraudulent / tools of social engineering, Hinduism has too many deities for me to take seriously, so that basically just leaves Buddhism. From my limited knowledge, Buddhism also has a specific cosmology I find suspiciously too detailed, and I'm not saying any of these must be true simply because they're the established options; Buddhism just seems to make the fewest fantastical claims, despite all of them turning on faith.

But frankly, I'm not even really sold on its methods: can severing all attachments to the world, as difficult as it may be, really be the way to escape samsara? Why should eliminating desire as a human being merit the ultimate reward of Nirvana? Does not the initial, underlying desire to achieve enlightenment remain? Or is that singular desire the exception? What about the time before humans and after? Are we to assume that, somewhere, sometime, another species will emerge intelligent enough to pursue enlightenment?

TL;DR: How do I end the cycle of rebirth / return to the divine unity underlying all that is? I'm sick of this life bullshit.

>>41032102 (OP)
Light above darkness.

>>41032102 (OP)
I did lay buddhism for a really long time and what I can convey to you is that you should not stop meditating, but stop doing serious buddhism. Buddhism is not strictly correct about everything.

The cycle of birth and death is not important, the concept of the cycle of birth and death is also not important. Buddhism is all about suffering less. Ask yourself whether or not trying to understand and apply buddhism to your life is creating more or less suffering.

Take action to suffer less. Inform yourself intelligently with modern modes of thought. Buddhism doesn't actually matter, suffering less does.

<3

>>41032116
I never actually started doing Buddhism at all, but I've casually absorbed its concepts and ideas over the years (think: a lot of Alan Watts).

I suffer greatly in my life and I'm past the point of trying to meaningfully reduce it. I'm already thinking about what comes next. I realize the folly of what I'm asking because it's unknowable, but I really do want to escape this cycle. To me, it's far more important than the suffering of this life. I'll even settle for a heavenly realm, although I doubt I'm pure enough to go there.

I basically just want to stop being born a fish, a fly, a human, a demon, etc. Just let me sleep.

That's why I really suffer, knowing that even death is not likely an escape.

How to be happy:

- do whatever makes you happy

>>41032102 (OP)
Read the Tibetan book of the dead, the Chikai bardo is where you wanna go, be warned, it takes many years of concentration to realize it, you may not get it in this life.

being reborn as bird or a cat sounds good

>>41032102 (OP)
>Let's say that a certain strain of Buddhism is correct and true; how could I possibly determine which?

Meditation...

Or you can enjoy life. Up to you.

>>41032135
Listen to hip hop from the late 80s and early 90s.

>>41032102 (OP)
Start meditating every day: do anapanasati and metta. These are neutral practices common to many religions - they are at least 2500 years old, here you trust not Buddha, but the experience of humanity.

You don't need to trust Buddha - he asks you to check, find out FROM YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE: how happiness arises and how happiness disappears, how suffering arises and how suffering disappears.

That's it. If you understand how - you will understand why Buddha is cool.

>>41032143
do as thou wilt?

>>41032166
Thanks for the tip, but
>you may not get it in this life
this kind of illustrates my concern. As it stands today, it seems that only human beings born after the life of the Buddha and who are aware of his teachings have any shot at enlightenment, and once humans are extinct / knowledge of Buddhism is lost, so with it goes the path to Nirvana. For us to believe otherwise would require that the Buddha remerges in another time / place / universe -- perhaps as a human being, but at least as an equally intelligent lifeform -- and essentially reproduces the sacred texts.

Over infinite time and universes, this isn't a big deal, but what I'm getting at is the problem of specificity and rarity. If Buddhism does provide the path, that means it is also an extremely narrow path in terms of the time it's available and who gets the chance to walk it.

Put yet another way: if the accrual of negative karma requires agency / intent only found in higher lifeforms like humans, how can we possibly account for all the random suffering and rebirth prior to the emergence of humans? Does this imply the existence of many more "intelligent" realms where negative karma can be accrued, and our world is just a dumping ground for beings working off their bad karma?

In fact, the only way this makes sense to me in terms of "cosmic fairness" is if there are indeed many other realms / universes with intelligent beings who can dramatically impact their own karma. And based on the extremes of suffering that humans inflict on life of all forms, it seems to me we are certainly in some kind of hellish realm, with many of our kind acting as demons or "hell wardens."

>>41032241
Love is the Law, and Compassion is the foundation of Morality

>>41032233
>Start meditating every day: do anapanasati and metta
But is this directly related to the goal of enlightenment / release, or are they just ways of gaining spiritual insight / reduction of suffering? I don't deny the power of such meditation or the impact it can have on individuals, but my concern here is specifically samsara, which Buddhism addresses directly. And I realize the "truth" of it all can only be discerned by doing it and experiencing it yourself. What I'm really getting at is if it's really, truly possible to dissipate one's ego permanently, so that death doesn't trigger rebirth. It just seems so hard to believe that you can and must set up those dominoes during one random human life.

>>41032102 (OP)
This is secret hidden knowledge you won't find anywhere else. To escape samsara you must masturbate 10 times a day, paying special attention to stimulating your nipples, every day until you die of natural causes. This is the only way.

>>41032286
Why does your queen have a wand(penis)
retard

>>41032325
... what? Are you gay or something

>>41032336
I just find it fascinating the spiritually dull attribute meaning to a card game made by drunkards in the middle ages

>>41032371
... you sound unpleasant

>>41032394
I save my pleasantries for fruitful people.

>>41032315
These techniques are essentially the development of concentration of the mind and goodwill towards people. They were not invented by Buddha Gautama, they were known before. People who disagreed with him used them. It's just that without them there is no tool to research.

Buddha's unique contribution is precisely in the radically posed question of suffering. Understanding how suffering arises and how it disappears is not enlightenment yet - this is the second and third Noble Truth. But if the mechanism itself becomes clear, the idea of samsara and nirvana will also become clear - much better.

It is counterintuitive to what each of us initially thinks of what happiness is. Without personal experience, this will simply be a philosophical opinion, there is little sense in it. You don't have to go all the way to see the mechanism.

>>41032429
Interesting, thanks for the clarification. I admit I struggle to grasp the power and role of meditation in this whole process, but there's clearly something to it. I kind of view it as turning down the noise / static of your thoughts / external stimulus, so that you can "hear" what the inner stillness tells you ... but again, without having achieved that myself, I struggle to see how that can translate into affecting your immortal "soul" or atman. I have to believe that at the deepest levels of meditation, *some* kind of information is being exchanged and received, or that the meditator experientially visits another realm and undergoes some spiritual transformation. Or maybe at the deepest level is where you must go quench the fires that keep you in samsara.

Unfortunately I personally suffer from tinnitus, which I assumed would prevent me from ever achieving any real focus, but maybe it's surmountable.

You don't have the humility required to make the journey you want to make

>>41032566
On what basis do you say this?

>>41032581
your defensive reaction to that idea

>>41032592
I'm not defensive, I'm asking for clarification.

>>41032613
I gave it to you.

>>41032619
>make vague assertion
>refuse to elaborate
>declare victory
k

>>41032623
lol

I've been practicing for a few years but not many. Just a lay Buddhist (Mahayana) but I try to follow the Sutras.

The first point I want to make is that Siddhartha Gautama wasn't suffering, he saw others suffering and this is the motivation for Buddhism - compassion for OTHERS.

If you take the Mahayana path you'll want to become a Bodhisattva otherwise you can't understand the Sutras. I don't know much Theravada but make sure there's a path for you without necessarily becoming a monk, unless that's your wish. When people achieve the state where they have Nirvana after 7 rebirths it's considered a huge accomplishment, so if you aren't extremely spiritually advanced I'd just forget the idea of Nirvana in this life, it shouldn't motivate you, or become a Bodhisattva.

My current view is no view, that Buddha is a name for no view. The heart Sutra says there is no attainment and nothing to be attained.

So you don't desire Nirvana, it's the pathless path, Nirvana is just the outcome of dissolving the false ego.

The Buddha is Bliss, Self, and the Pure.

The atomists said everything except Atoms and empty space is mere opinion. Make your mind like space and if you're daunted by the time of the Universe or the lifespan of the Buddha, read the Lotus Sutra which speaks of Buddha preaching the Dharma in one sitting for hundreds of billions of years.

I don't know much about the cosmology, but I believe in this.

You probably have good karma if you narrowed everything down to Buddhism, because the same thing happened to me after I worked on a large charity project.

Don't listen to "Buddhist" niggers, because they don't like the truth. Meditation won't set you free, fostering an attitude of disinterest will. And being selfless and listening to your conscience takes sustained effort and vigilance. Disinterest will carry you to the finish line, where you can have your ebin buddha moment, and not the hours of mediation you clock. Don't be retarded and think that mediation in itself could bear even a meager contribution in the aim of salvation. Meditate if you want, but don't be under the illusion that your actually contributing to your liberation by doing so.

Actually, no, DON'T MEDITATE, never meditate, never seek the counsel of "Buddhists" niggers! It hurts their ears to hear that striving for good is actually important, they recoil at the mere thought, and will respond with word games about "to desire to be selfless is still to desire." If a Buddhist is emphasizing meditation in their soteriology, run away from them, create as much distance as you possibly can from them.

>>41032560
>Unfortunately I personally suffer from tinnitus, which I assumed would prevent me from ever achieving any real focus, but maybe it's surmountable

Not at all, I have it too - not only does it not interfere with focusing on breathing (with "letting go" of course), but I sometimes use tinnitus itself as an object. The result was that any irritation I had towards it disappeared.

But I will say that tinnitus is best suited for tunnel hyperfocus. Now I practice more according to the method of total letting go, which naturally leaves only the breath as an accessible object.

>>41032641
Lol when you meditate you cultivate Bodhicita which is compassionate awareness. Try coming up with an argument for compassion, or doing what's right. I don't mean an argument for your Morality (which is itself a problem) but an argument for why you should do the right thing in general. It can't be logically proven. Even the Derridean philosophers recognize this and the limits of language. Only Buddhists have an answer, in emptiness, and they don't even have to try

Short of that Theravadins are obsessed with Sila good conduct so I have no idea what you're on about.

I wish there was a chart for meditation techniques or something, i got into mindfulness observation and anapanasati, are there any other cool and more advanced methods?
I am interested in controlling my thoughts and emotions in so far as my goals

>>41032635
>>41032635
Thanks for the information. I'm curious how you chose Mahayana over Theravada or anything else though. This is kind of my problem with moving from the general to the specific: it appears to just be a judgment call, whichever practices and beliefs jibe with your sensibilities and how you perceive things / want things to be. But if I'm not mistaken, there are contradictions / incompatibilities between the different schools, so how do we ever know we're on the right path? I'm guessing the answer is "you have to experience it and suss it out for yourself." Is that really good enough, though? Can we not deceive ourselves or be mistaken?

>>41032641
lol, I can't tell how serious this is, but I'll ask anyway: how would you label or describe your spiritual understanding / practice if not Buddhist? I mean you seem to accept the goal / premise but not the methods.

>>41032655
>The result was that any irritation I had towards it disappeared.
That's crazy. I guess it [meditation] is worth a shot then. Any meditation tips specifically for a beginner with tinnitus?

>>41032702
I read the Mahayana Scriptures because I want to be Zen, and I chose Zen because the Japanese are Aryan

>>41032681
They say madness cannot be imagined "from the inside", but I think I know what it is. It is when you are betrayed by what you thought would never betray you - your will, your ability to control, your attention. It is the specific pattern of their movement that is 50% of madness, the other 50% is that you think that you are them, attention, intention, will, control, desire and therefore you cannot step aside from madness, because it is generated by what you sincerely consider yourself - there is no room for retreat for the untrained mind.

In this sense, I see meditation as step aside from identification with attention, intention, will, control, desire. But this is my opinion.

>>41032669
You don't need to come with an argument for what's right because it will be self evident. And I mean really self-evident, at the level of feeling and intuition, and not as some logical truth. And I think for most people meditation won't be an optimal path for realizing that compassionate awareness. Do you really think that meditation is a definitive means, that there wasn't a sensitivity for compassion already latent in meditator to begin with?

>>41032711
The most important thing in the beginning is to start doing it regularly, every day.

If you don't fall asleep. - you can do all this even lying down. The position is not important.

Start with breathing - anapanasati, classic to understand the principle, and after that try to practice metta (just wish happiness to everyone you know, for starters) - and if you are annoyed by tinnitus, then... to it, lol. Direct goodwill and kindness towards it.

If you do well for a month or two, you can try making tinnitus an object - you will see for yourself when you want it.

I would recommend 4 books:
"The Mind Illuminated"
"Right Concentration: A Practical Guide to the Jhanas" by Leigh Brasington
"The Art of Disappearing" by Ajahn Brahm
"With Each and Every Breath" by Thanissaro Bhikkhu (it didn't work for me, but... many say that it was the easiest way)

They all give a DIFFERENT approach - which is important.

>>41032765
Thank you very much my friend. I came here seeking (and still seek) breadcrumbs on the path to release. Maybe this is the first concrete step.

>>41032772
I can only say that starting to meditate was the best decision I made in 15 years. The first results (if you do concentration, and then metta) appear within 2 weeks - 3 months, for me it was the departure of background irritation, anxiety towards people. I didn't even know it was there until it was gone. It improved my daily life so much that I decided to continue.

Metta was cringe for me, but in the end it was this combination that gave a result

>>41032789
can i meditate in a noisy environment?

>>41032805
Use earplugs and anything that can help you, including a sleep mask, etc. This is not a test of strength, especially at the beginning. With earplugs - I was not much bothered by the fact that people were walking through my room. At first, the body is scared by sharp sounds - it jumped up, but gradually, it stopped reacting to all this at all.

Actually , why trying to escape when u can eat pizza in every possibility

>>41032882
The pizza comes with consequences.
Is it always worth it?

Abrahamic religions, hinduism, buddhism... all bullshit deathcults religions that pursue escaping from pain either being subservient to some higher entity or searching escapism. Romans and greeks had stoicism, and they both had gods that honored life, meaning, humanity and struggle with the vikings and pagans.

>>41032102 (OP)
the two main things that made me stop being buddhist were that the budda in pali canon taught there's no intermediate state between rebirths, and that many get reborn in a hell realm to be punished by hell wardens for a ridiculously long time and theres no escaping that until you finally die there and are immediately reborn somewhere else

>>41032903
hinduism is fine when they don't practice a nondualism that excludes all psyche using the philosophical trickery of mithya. if you accept the psyche as a facet of the absolute (like in shaivism) you essentially have the same worldview as neoplatonism, hermeticism, kabbalah, etc and therefore aren't a crypto-buddhist annihilation cult (vedanta) that gaslights (like buddhism) it's followers into thinking that's not what they are

>>41032102 (OP)
Common mistake you don't eliminate desire, it's your attachment to it. I can watch porn maybe desire arises I fap it passes. If I HAD to do it or else I'd be sad in pain n or to function then that's clinging or if guilt shame after arises that's also attachment how you react but if desire arises you tap or not then passes and you continue then that's what it means not to eliminate desire but your relationship with it and seeing how suffering can arise in mind . If someone says otherwise it's false. Even obstraining is a form of attachment and again not bad, it's how you see things and cooking is just an example it can be anything
T. Enlightenment coomer middle path Buddhist

>>41032987
Something is right about this, because when I vape there is a kind of light impulse that tells me I can indulge and it's not desire or attachment. Best way to describe it is like a flow state. I never take a pull if I have desire, I will probably apply this same principle to eating/fasting, slays demons

>>41033002
Yes sorry was shitting and phone posting but yes. All Buddhist teaches is that clinging or attachment is a root cause of suffering (if it causes this that's why). For example perhaps free will is not the illusionary changing self but if you choose to cling to something or not. Pleasure pain desire craving all arise and pass. Theonk sat on fire he didn't run from pain or escape it which is a form of clinging it just came like a cloud but he was the sky, energy no labels pure temporary passing. Mind can say "this is pain o am in pain" but it can also not. As for vape I notice if I take mine a passing feeling of strong guilt comes because it's not "h qlthy" in my gut but I'd still smoke it aware all things are temporary anyway guilt passes I vape no story in mind saying "I shouldnt of done that " or "this is bad "

>>41032913
Yeah, the hells are something that stuck out to me as bogus and way out of proportion, both the lengths of time, punishments, and reasons for being sent there. (Some of the "sins" are clearly rooted in a place in time, like Christianity's shellfish clause.) It's why I start from the premise of samsara and only add what I find plausible. It's not even clear to me that escaping it is possible, or possible by individual efforts in life. And yet, if it is possible, then clearly our actions do matter. Unless you're going to seek your own path to enlightenment out of whole cloth, Buddhism seems to me the best place to start, given what's available to us.

But yeah, I could never accept everything it says at face value.

>>41033026
Guilt when vaping? It's probably because nobody really knows (ignorance) whether it is bad for you. Same as healthy diets, etc., we just pretend to do science. Shame that it makes you feel guilty

>>41032102 (OP)
If you wanna complete your reincarnation cycle then evolve, learn unconditional love and be of service to all, it's the only way and you'll keep coming here til you do. It's what we all have to learn by coming here. You're a God in training. Ain't got nothing to do with buddha or jesus, any religion or religious figure or any other dogma on earth.

>>41033084
Yeah you're good but if you really had unconditional service to all you'd come back as a Bodhisattva. The Buddha wants everyone to receive Nirvana by the Tathagata's Nirvana. This is called the Single Vehicle

Also I want to tell OP that doubt is the Tathagata. Buddha is immutable and doesn't say anything

>>41032102 (OP)
rond an round like. horse on. carsouel
Post buda songs ahhiaaa
https://youtu.be/pxDPRQcY9gM?si=nIU0Vqi0KpT1sP4M

an now m stuck .. am stuck
ridig….
riiidiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnngghg!!!!