Thread 41275259

Is it real or is it a forgery?

>>41275259 (OP)
Fake and gay pope cope.

>>41275278
The Vatican doesn't like it too much I don't think. They certainly don't seem too proud of it. But I believe it is real, though it ultimately doesn't matter if it is or not.

Blood stains suggest it’s real but it’s debatable.

A 3D face does not product a 2D image

the "blood" looks squiggled on

long hair was shameful to jews during that time period

CHRIST
is
KING

>>41275284
I appreciate your candor. The big brains on Vatican hill know it is forged, but they will not speak the truth for political reasons.

A microcosm of why the Magisterium is just another Sanhedrin.

ITS 100% REAL

CHRIST IS KING

God is good.
He is the real LAW
Only HIS law matters.
Not laws of men.

>>41275259 (OP)
Well, is it really from jesus? How do we know that the guy in the OP isn't just a random hobo who got confused as jesus over the years?

>>41275355
... From an AI overview, really
I am convinced
Is what I would say if I was that retarded

>>41275392
what's all the white stuff around the image of the man?
>inb4 cum

>>41275259 (OP)
Bro who nut on JC?

>>41275355
Ah yes the most trust worthy source.

>>41275259 (OP)
Definitely a forgery but how it was made has never been established. There are records back to the 1370-80s where scholars said it was obviously fake (Oresme states this in the Problemata).
My guess is there is a medieval tomb effigy where this has been traced from which may still be out there somewhere.

>>41276121
Hm that made me think. Do you think that the shroud being fake is proof that christianity is also fake? And if you are a christian, does it affect your faith?

>>41276178
It makes no difference if it’s fake or not providing your faith is not invested in it being real.
Plenty of relics have been faked. There are enough alleged pieces of the true cross to build many, many crosses.

>>41276121
why do people act like this is some impossible thing?

this is what my white underwear looks like if I sit on it long enough

just put some kind of grease on a relief/statue then drape over the cloth

>>41276214
Makes sense. May I ask what your beliefs are?

>>41276223
I don’t believe in anything but I did a couple of years of medieval history in college so this stuff is interesting.

>>41276121
What's your opinion on this?

>There are a lot of weird anomalies with the Shroud that can’t easily be explained. The shroud cloth apparently has visited the Holy Land at least once thanks to there being ancient native plant pollens on the fabric, yet it has never been documented being there (depending on the sources you trust). There are claims of blood in the fabric, but it’s also been equally(?) challenged as red ochre paint. There are claims of a forger admitting to making it in the 1300s, yet there seem to be indirect references and images of the shroud from 50 to 75 years prior to the claim. For the actual human image there is no paint layer comprising it, and current techniques used to recreate the shroud image either don’t satisfy all its characteristics (like the famous photonegative effect) or require techniques unlikely to be known by any medieval artist.

The image either supernatural in origin and bears witness to Jesus Christ in the exalted flesh, or an unknown Leonardo da Vinci-level polymath trolled the fuck out the Christian world so hard we still don’t know how he did it. It all depends on who you ask, where you get your data, and your initial biases that lean you toward which information to believe.

There is an absolute fuck ton of research out there in all kinds of different fields. If you’re so inclined, there’s a lot to dig into.

It's clearly a painting of a person rather than an image of a real person. Do people really think Jesus looked like a Byzantine era tie-dye?

>>41276283
All of those anomalies are debated so it does not require a polymath to create it. As you mentioned the plant pollens are debated, the blood is debated. The whole thing is debated.
It’s still more likely to be a simple fake than not but until someone comes up with something far more definitive then it’s an open question.

>>41275690
>>41276117
Attacking the source instead directly addressing the information is a way of not responding. The moment you do that shit, you lose.

>>41276315
sorry but when your source is a hallucination of a computer you have already lost the argument because you yourself couldn't provide any source and had to resort to artificial indian's dreams.
but sure I'll entertain you
>analysis shows
which analysis?
>outermost fibers
so it was painted on?

>>41275259 (OP)
real

SATAN FROM VATICAN WANT TO DECEIVE YOU!
BECAUSE YOU NOT LISTEN GOD NOR BELIEVE IN HIM YOU NEED EVIDENCES AND BECAUSE OF THAT YOUR FAITH IS WEAK!

43 And when He thus had spoken, He cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth!”

44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus said unto them, “Loose him, and let him go.”

Wht i post those verses? TO YOU SEE HOW DEAD WAS PUT IN GRAVE. AS YOU SEE LAZARUS WAS NOT HAVE SHROUD WHICH IS ONE PART , BUT IN SEPARATE PARTS AS BANDAGES ! AND ONE SEPARATE PART TO COVER FACE.

WHY YOU THINK THAT JESUS WAS PUT IN GRAVE IN DIFFERENT FASHION?

>SATAN HAVE REASON WHY ? BECASUE SHROUD WILL DISCOVER YOU FACE OF SOMEONE OTHER WHICH WILL LEAD YOU INTO ANOTHER ONE DELUSION AND LIE!

It's a photo negative dating back to the correct time period. Scientists have no idea how a photo negative could have been produced back then, and have no explanation for it.
A photo negative requires an extremely bright and quick flash of light.

>>41275259 (OP)
It was debunked long ago. It had nothing to do with Jewsus. The statue of some roman king was wrapped inside this thing, the statue was found and everything matched perfectly.

>>41275259 (OP)

>Long hair bearded man = Jesus christ
>made in 1260–1390 AD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating_of_the_Shroud_of_Turin
>Turin/Italy

Christianity is the most delusional group of people on this planet.

>>41275259 (OP)
>Is it real or is it a forgery?
yes

>>41275259 (OP)
In short, it's a medieval photographic print of a statue of Jesus. The belief that it's a religious artifact is far less interesting than the truth.

>>41277822
It likely used natural sunlight and a very long exposure time. But the simple fact that somebody discovered the process centuries before history believes is fascinating enough.

>>41277784
>SATAN FROM VATICAN WANT TO DECEIVE YOU!
BECAUSE YOU NOT LISTEN GOD NOR BELIEVE IN HIM YOU NEED EVIDENCES AND BECAUSE OF THAT YOUR FAITH IS WEAK!

>>41276315
Sorry but when ur source is asking an ai and ur going “IT IS 100% REAL”,i am not taking u seriously.

>>41275259 (OP)
to assume it's a forgery you have to believe they somehow knew about photography in the middle ages, crucified someone, nailed all sorts of details including mineral and pollen from Jerusalem, or...

followers of Jesus, who objectively founded a religion that took over the Roman Empire and the western world, preserved it. there are older linens than the shroud still preserved

>>41278922
the two choices seem to be
1) someone secretly invented photography hundreds of years before they definitely did
2) Jesus' followers really did just preserve the shroud

>>41276283
science always struggles when the evidence starts pointing to "wait, is religion true"

>>41277934
not true, nothing about it has been debunked, science lies to you and you eat it up like a sheep

>>41280190
Chemical testing has shown the image on the shroud was formed via a process of acid photography (similar to the caffenol method), not by exposure to a corpse. And in any case the image looks nothing like a 1st century Jew, and everything like 11th century church statuary.

>>41276293
there's no evidence of paint on the shroud

>>41276304
"is debated" is a poor standard. any idiot can debate anything. it's not a simple fake, it even passes the basic eye test, it looks nothing like actual medieval forgeries we're aware of. it looks super old, it acts super old (has to be tightly preserved), all sorts of tests are consistent with it being super old

>>41280219
no it hasn't, i hate baseless claims like this, if this had actually been shown it would have been international news. why do you lie

>>41275259 (OP)
It's real, I made that with my magic.

>>41280237
The image being made up of collagen and metal oxides has been known since the '70s? It's not news anymore.

>>41280268
when questioned on it you instantly change your characterization of it

>>41280325
Not at all. Collagen and metal oxides are used in photographic processes. What's new is the idea that it was created photographically, which is part of a general realization of the fact that people during the "dark ages" actually made significant scientific advancements. Previously it was thought that it was merely gelatin tempera paint applied more conventionally to the cloth.

>>41280234
It is a simple fake.
It passes the basic eye test as a fake.
We don’t have many other medieval forgeries of Jesus death shroud
It is old but probably medieval.
Tests are inconsistent on everything.

There’s no point in debating much around this until something very conclusive comes in. Way too much contradictory information. I maintain it’s likely an early medieval fraud but I can’t prove that anymore than someone can prove it’s a a linen sheet that was laid in Jesus and magically absorbed his aura.

>tldr this whole fucking thread is full of cunts who don't even know
>repeating debunked debunks like it was made in the middle ages
All I know is the thing is weird as hell and anyone telling you otherwise is a liar. I'm not a Christian but it's one of the things that makes me wonder.

>>41275259 (OP)
I think it's real. I ahve faith. I know atheists tried debunking it with carbon-dating as well as claiming it had paint on it, but ended up with nothing.

>>41281623
Coming from a purely rational perspective, logic follows that this thing is evidence of a time traveling polymath troll OR Jesus Christ.

Maybe they're one in the same, or it could be both. Either way, this thing is extremely anomalous and shouldn't exist in a universe that is purely logical, rational, and deterministic. Something we do not understand happened here, and we have the evidence.

>>41280349
Scientist revealed that it would have taken a flash of light millions of times hotter than the sun for a billionth of a nanosecond to produce the same effect, according to their understanding of physics.

So yeah it's basically a photograph from the first century.

>Literally cannot be debunked

Christians - 99999999
Atheist devils - 0

Khazars in the comments seething and coping
>It's le debated
>It's fake because I said so
Okey...

Btw, Jesus coming back from the death, resurrecting, speaks more of his powers and spiritual level or whatever you want to call, than the bible being 100% true.

>>41281623
You are amazingly stupid and unpleasant.
>>41282057
Almost as stupid.

>>41282307
Larper in the thread seething and coping
>its le not debated
>it’s real because I said so
Okeeeey….

lol, Jesus didn’t come back from the dead, speaks less of his powers and spiritual level or whatever you want to call, than the bible being 100% false

Funny how your quality post can be turned around. You also type like your needs are special. Very
Special

What are these things? (Pic related)

>>41282355
>Jesus didn’t come back from the dead
The shroud is hard evidence that he did in fact came back from the dead

>>41282434
The shroud is not evidence of his resurrection as it was dated to be about 1300 years after Jesus.
What do you get out of lying like this?

>>41282531
Bro literally time travels, does dating really matter that much to you people?

>>41282607
I mean yeah considering you faggots keep lying and saying the shroud is Christs when there is evidence that says this shroud dates a thousand years after him. So yes if you were pushing a false claim that has contrasting evidence to claim, you're wrong.

I also know from that comment you clearly don't know what Radiometric dating is or how it works since you seem proudly boast your ignorance as if that makes my comment wrong.

>>41282531
wrong, it was dated appropriately around that time period. you're talking about the corner sample they took which had been about 700 years younger than this middle of the shroud

Every day I try very hard to respect religious people but they keep upping the difficulty.
Blind faith is a hell of a drug.

>>41282629
>700 years younger

This is not true at all where's your evidence of this?

Fun fact - you can easily reproduce the shroud of turin by laying some painted glass over linen and leaving it out in the sun. In fact the method of producing glass sheets big enough to do it, cylinder forming, was invented shortly before the shroud's carbon-dated origin.

>>41282779
Reminds me of that guy who spent his life investigating an unknown huge and fast flying life form he called "rods" that ended up just being bugs flying in front of the camera. The real explanation is just so simple and obvious.

reminder that christians only have the shroud (1 divine object) meanwhile the fucking japs have like three divine objects (min.)

>>41282628
>Radiometric dating is or how it works
Do YOU know how it works?

>>41283186
The Christians have numerous artifacts. The spear of destiny? The dead sea scrolls? They're just all locked up in the Vatican, lol.

it's fake

>>41282531
This has been debunked.
The shroud is about 2000 years old.
Please dont comment/post if your information isnt up to date

>>41282779
>>41283179
Lmao
Shills are here

>>41282669
Try reading the thread >>41276283

>>41275259 (OP)
There's nothing quite like it. You cannot compare it to any painting because it doesn't have even traces of anything that could have been used to stain it. At the end of the day it doesn't matter because God hates idols and that's not what he's going to look like at His return in His glorified form anyways.

>>41283614
The dating method that says 2000 years old is based on the physical decay rate of linen fibers. Incidentally, the decay of linen fibers is accelerated by leaving them out in the sun to fade, which is how the image was created. Not to mention the fact that the shroud was in a fire, which is what caused these markings >>41282400 and which would also accelerate the decay.

>>41283624
If you have a reason for believing it was not created by laying painted glass on linen and leaving it out in the sun, I'd like to hear it.

>>41283614
No it hasn't you fucking mong because if you had the proof you'd post it.
>>41283643
>A hUrr read the thread
>Wall of text with no source
I'm good bro. Give me tangible evidence by a peer reviewed study on the shroud that concludes it's 2000 years old because I can post one that says otherwise. Unless you're talking about that idiot Christian dentist who thinks the fucking shroud is older (Totally unqualified and biased). If you post that moron with no credentials I'm just going to make fun of you.

>>41284679
>the shroud was in a fire, which is what caused these markings
Wouldn't the shroud have evidence of being in a fire like, I dunno... Burn marks?

>>41283614
No, it’s medieval.

>>41286558
The triangular marks on the image are where the burnt material was removed. They're symmetrical because it caught fire while it was folded

>>41286931
>The triangular marks on the image are where the burnt material was removed.
What manner of "material"? And why were they triangular?

>>41286943
It was damaged in a fire in 1532. That's a weird detail to get hung up on because it's public knowledge that you can just look up.

>be divine relic infused with holy image that cannot be explained
>get burnt easily
>get torn easily
So, this is the power of first class relics…..

>>41286967
Wouldn't that lend credence to the anomalousness of the shroud given that fact that it's so fragile yet was somehow imprinted with such an image? Lol

>>41287013
Bro please stop grasping at straws. This is just sad.

>>41286954
If it's so public, then provide a link, TALOS.

>>41287065
I am not grasping at straws, I am stating the obvious, lol?

>>41287307
What are you even talking about?

>>41287312
You are saying god’s image is so weak that it can be easily burnt away.
Your hatred of god is pathetic.

>>41287315
I'm asking you to provide a link to what you are referring to? Quit playing dumb.

>>41287320
*Yawn*

>>41287339
https://sindone.org/en/home-english/the-shroud/the-fire/

>>41275259 (OP)
Seems real. Also threads like these should be Christ followers only because the unsaved has no useful opinion on the matter.

>>41287344
You will BURN.

>>41275259 (OP)
It's 100% not reproducable even with modern technology, anyone who says otherwise is a shill or just an idiot. If that were possible then it would have been duplicated countless times to demonstrate that it's a hoax. No ones done that because it's not possible lol

>>41287353
It’s been replicated many times lol
https://cicdc.org/shroudexhibit/
Even by the Catholic Church lol
Even by YouTubers lol
You can find many videos lol
Some of them even replicate the supposedly amazing photographic qualities lol
lol

>>41287366
Yet you can't even post a link to one lmao

>>41287352
*Double yawn*

>>41287353
This guy replicated the head using a method that was easily available at the time it was carbon dated: https://shadowshroud.com
Get a sheet of glass. Paint an image of a crucified dude on the glass. Lay the glass on top of linen. Leave it out in the sun until the linen fades where there is less pigment on the glass. Wala - you have a shroud of turin, complete with all the "anomalies" that supposedly can't be explained.

>>41287390
lmao hypothetical bullshit that hasn't undergone any of the scientific testing or scrutiny that the shroud has been subjected to to prove it's authenticity. You have nothing. Even this website uses words like "could potentially" and all this.

>>41287387
My underwear has similar properties if I sit on it long enough

Perfectly replicate my buttcheeks

>>41287402
Name any aspect of the shroud that cannot be explained by the provided method.

>>41287405
Probably a fair bit of blood on em too. At least you got that part right.

>>41287412
I don't have to explain it, as I said, it can't be replicated. If you could replicate it you could explain it, but you can't

>>41287417
The head was replicated. There are photos of the successful repro attempts you can look at.

>>41287435
Yeah I'm not going to believe your fucking geocities site lmao He even states that it "lacks the finesse of the original" which is just libshit speak for "I tried and it didn't work". Do better.

>>41287440
That means "The method of imprinting the image onto the cloth worked, but I'm not as good a painter as the monk that forged it". You can't refute the process so you criticize the web design. Lmao.

>>41287447
>painter
lol there's no paint on the shroud, what are you even on about? If he was successful he'd be famous, but he just has some backwater site that nobody has ever heard of. His work would actually be published if it was worth a shit.

>>41287458
Did you even read the described process? The paint goes on the glass, not the cloth. The painted glass lays on top of the cloth so that when it fades in the sun, it fades in the image that was painted on the glass.

>>41287465
And has it been tested for paint traces? The shroud has. Nobody bothered to test it because his work was shitty and nobody cares about it, not even skeptics.

>>41287474
I think you might actually be retarded. The paint doesn't go on the cloth. The cloth has no paint on it. The paint goes on the glass, not the cloth. The paint makes an image on the cloth only by filtering sunlight through the glass. Only the light touches the cloth. If and Approved Basedentist hasn't tried reproducing such an obvious and clearly plausible forging technique, that says way more about the state of science than it does about the technique.

>>41287483
lol the shroud still hasn't been reproduced bro, sorry your geocities site doesn't cut it. Yeah science failed you, no shit? It's been doing that your whole life. For example, you believe in shape shifting monkeys lol

And my point still remains, if his "duplicate" hasn't been tested, then you can't make such claims about it. It absolutely should be tested for traces of paint, regardless of what he says about it. Not very scientific of you.

>>41287496
It's a forgery because it was shameful for Jewish males to have long hair in that time period

>>41287546
That's not a serious argument at all since Jesus was sent to make all of the old laws and customs redundant. It would make perfect sense for Him to have long hair. Especially considering His biblical and spiritual ties to John the Baptist, who had long hair.

>>41287572
You don't know that. Long hair was effeminate. It was like wearing a veil when you are a man. This is outright stayed in the NT

The long hair Jesus started appearing in the later centuries

>>41287592
What don't I know? Jesus and John the Baptist were linked through prophecy, John the Baptist had long hair because he was a Nazarite. Jesus in fact did render the old law and customs obsolete, you haven't refuted anything I said but you're just restarting what you believe and can't prove lol

>>41275259 (OP)
Its real. only those who idolize their sins say its fake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKMQY49py4w

>>41287608
You're just making shit up lmao

There are no contemporary sources saying Jesus had long hair. There are no sources saying JTB was a Nazarite either. You're pulling things out your ass to make your position defensible. Meanwhile the Apostle Paul who has seen Jesus says long hair is shameful for men.

>>41287387
Literally a link in my post lmao rofl lol

>>41287608
This here
This larp
Disgusting to god.

>>41287647
Actually I haven't made anything up lol you're so focused on this "long hair" bullshit when it's never stated one way or the other if Jesus had long or short hair, so it's completely moot point lol

You know what else is shameful, being spat on and crucified naked, yet Jesus faced this fate willingly knowing what He would have to endure for mankind. And you're sitting about why he would be worried about if His hair was long? lol Such a brain dead take.

>>41287661
I get. You are saying the shroud is fake,
Thanks. I understand now.
It was never about the hair.

>>41287656
>god in little g
This larp
Unconvincing and pathetic in equal measure
Opinion discarded

>>41287661
>deflecting

It matters because the shroud is obviously depicting later portrayals of Jesus.

Jewish men did not have long hair for that time.
Again if Jesus had long hair. Paul would not be badmouthing it.

>>41287675
The shroud is probably real, it can't be reproduced.

I accept your apology.

>>41287687
Paul never met Jesus when He was alive lmao He apparently had a vision.
That's your source? So you do believe Jesus appeared to Paul?

>I have to give concessions to Christianity and admit miracles occurred in making my argument against the shroud

lmao you're a fucking idiot

>>41287690
It’s been reproduced many times lol
>>41287366
>>41287390
Many times lol
I can’t accept your apology because you are too wrong.

>>41287681
Have you taken your big M Meds?

>>41287710
>denies Jesus appeared to Paul

Do you believe the bible or not lmao

You just flip flop and say whatever

Be undeniable shroud of god’s own image
>decay
>burn
>get torn
>get questioned
>get duplicated
Hmm….

>>41287731
Jesus did not appear to Paul.
Paul was tired and flipped out on the road to Tabasco.
Sometimes called Damascus.

>>41287731
I've never stated one way or the other lol But if your only argument against the shroud being legitimate is the word of a guy who never saw Jesus alive saying that long hair is shameful, then you must believe that he saw Him in a vision. I can perfectly point out the incoherence in your position without needing to believe in the bible at all, so your question is irrelevant, putz lol Just like stating the shroud can't be Jesus because he has long hair. You're certifiably double digit IQ bro, you have to see that.

>>41287757
>I don't believe in the bible in this instance even though I am defending christian relics and miracles

Lol you argue like a jew

>>41287742
Well why did the disciples validate him if he was just some nutso

Did Peter and everyone else get deceived. Doesn't seem very apostle like

>>41287774
Jews have pretty high IQ, so I'll take that as admission that yours is in fact low, as I have just adequately demonstrated by breaking down your absolute clusterfuck disaster of an argument. lol Good Lord, son.

>>41287780
Did they validate to, really?
There is much debate over this. The gospels date from some decades later, What is known is that Christianity was much different after Paul got involved. He moved it away from what was very much still a small Jewish sect. There is still scholarly debate that he split the early Christianity in two.

>>41287797
>get demolished
>claim victory anyway

Lol christjews. Let's recap

Turin image is based on historically inaccurate depictions of jesus

Jesus and JTB were never described as having long hair. Jesus cannot be a Nazarite because he drank alcohol

Paul says long hair is for fags depsite seeing the messiah

Now cope and seethe

>>41287857
>Paul saw the messiah
Staunch atheist, in pure panic and desperation as he watches his stupid argument wilt in the face of simple logic, admits biblical miracles occurred in his futile attempt to disprove relics that may or may even be genuine.

lmao the internet just witnessed you construct your own cuck chair in real time and then sit in it.

In my wildest dreams I couldn't emasculate and destroy an atheist anymore than you just did in debasing your own self.

>>41287885
>Christian in a desperate attempt to not lose an argument denies his own bible

Lol I accept your defeat

>>41287898
>Literally just making shit up lol
No, I think it's perfectly plausible that Paul had a vision. I think it's perfectly plausible that Jesus had long hair, it's never stated one way or the other. However, I got you to admit to miracles occurring, so I will definitely take that as a win. GG cupcake

>>41287907
Backtracks yet again lol

You denied the word of god. Enjoy hell.

Paul would not be saying long hair is bad for men if Jesus had it

Keep coping bitch lmao

>>41287924
>Now cope and seethe
>Literally sat there crying while I'm happy that he had to admit to the resurrection in an attempt to approve his dumb point
lol hardly ever does a debate end so decisively, you just gifted me a slam dunk argument. Get dunked on nerd lol

The fuck are you faggots even arguing about Jesus isn't real and the shroud was made a thousand years after the supposed death of Christ. This is such a a stupid fucking thread and anyone defending this shit is a blind fucking Christard who needs fucking help.

>>41287948
>he became delusional after losing

I bet you're a long haired faggot too lol

>>41287993
If I was it wouldn't be inconsistent with my beliefs, I wouldn't do something that was against that, I have self respect and integrity. You however, are an atheist who believes in the resurrection of Christ. Think of me with my beautiful long hair when you can't even look yourself in the mirror, dumbass lol lmao

>>41288024
I never said anything about the resurrection of Christ lol

Meanwhile you denied that Paul met Jesus. Thus denying the word of god. Thus bl>>41288024
aspheming the holy spirit which worked through him.

Enjoy hell lol

Shroud is fake.
Paul never met Jesus.
Jesus was not divine.
At least we can all agree on these basics.

>>41288087
For Paul to meet Christ after He was dead, that means Christ was resurrected, so yeah that's exactly what you said, multiple times on this thread. I never denied it, I said apparently he had a vision. In what world is that denying that something happened? Because I wasn't emphatic that he absolutely did see Jesus? I know for a fact that Jesus was resurrected, as do you, as you've admitted, as did Paul. And also blaspheming against the holy spirit means you're attributing the works of the holy spirit to evil and rejecting it's goodness. Why do you continue in this endeavor to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt your double digit IQ? I believe you, you're really fucking dumb, it's not a sin, at least you believe Jesus was resurrected. You're just on the opposite side of the bell curve than me, which is fine.

>>41275259 (OP)
Hey so what does it mean to say that Jesus is Christ if Jesus and Christ are the same thing (IF Jesus is the only Christ)?

Isn't this like saying "Jesus is Jesus?" Surely there were some supposed Christs before Jesus "came in [Mary's] flesh."

For example Jesus says
>I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance
So who is Christ of the righteous? The righteous don't get a Christ?

Also when he says
>False Christs and false prophets will come in my name so as to deceive if possible even the very elect.
This could mean the only problem with someone else claiming to be Christ is that he takes away some peeps whom Jesus chose into their camp

>>41288135
Note that the final sentence cannot be spoken with proper grammar because Jesus is a schizophrenic. You can literally test this for yourself by trying to type out the concept of "the elect being taken by a real Christ," there is no grammatical way to say it

>>41288120
Backtracks yet again lol

I'm seeing a pattern

Also protip I'm using your bible in an argument

Which you seem to have trouble grasping lmao. Not my fault your supposed Christian miracles are disproven by your own Christian material

Anyway Jesus likely had short hair and shroud is fake and gay

>>41288172
>Backtracks
That's a clear and concise summation of everything that's been said lol Bro you've got the absolute shoddiest wet dog of an argument I've ever seen, it stinks of reddit as does your spacing, you should go back.

>Disproven
>Anyways Jesus likely had short hair

You can't even type two consecutive sentences without contradicting yourself.

What a low IQ faggot lol

Jesus had hair?
Is this proven? I always saw him as like those big engineers out of them alien films like Prometheus.

>>41288200
>becomes incoherent after being destroyed

Brown or just Christian lol

>>41288207
>Doesn't understand that disproven and likely are incompatible in this context
>Think he's white
lmao

>>41287798
You're making shit up, snake.

>>41288221
I accept your defeat :)

Deep down inside I know you're crying lol

You denied Jesus btw just wanted to remind you lmao

>>41288222
No the gospels were written decades later.
Paul did cause a schism in the early church.
This is not news anon.

>>41288222
The gospels are anonymous and written up to 90 years later. It's literally unsubstantiated nonsense

Also the existence of Paul is a prophetic failure (church built on peter) while Greek Christianity was built on Paul instead

>>41288236
I'm white, Christian and correct in this matter.
You're brown, tentatively atheist and your brain is dog shit.
>I accept your defeat
Why would you accept someone else's defeat? lmao Freudian slip, this kid is ass blasted beyond all belief lol lmao The facts are clear

>>41288240
>>41288243
None of that is true. It is infact so not true that it comes off as comical in a sense.

>>41288285
>white
Jesus was probably ethnically Palestinian so what relevance does that have?

>>41288292
Those are facts are not debatable.
The gospels don’t even agree with each other.

>>41288285
This is what your savior looked like btw

>>41288285
The first thing you said in this debate was completely wrong (claiming Jesus was a Nazarite) and then got even more hilarious and incorrect as it went on then culminated with you denying your bible

I accept your defeat :)

>>41288300
Your disagreement with the truth of God stems from your hatred of truth and facts, how is then what you are saying fact?

>>41288317
lol I never claimed Jesus was a Nazarite buddy, I said that about John the Baptist. And it's almost assured that he was so I stand by that statement, you can dispute it if you like I don't really care. I accept that I've wounded your ego deeply and that I did you a favor by taking you down a few pegs. And also you admitting that Jesus Christ was resurrected was good for you so I hope you continue in that (correct) path.
>smiley face
lol that's what brown redditors do when they're seething.

>>41288351
Backtracks yet again lol

Anyway anyone can just read the replies and see how you took the L

Christ golems just keep losing :)

>>41288331
>truth and facts

Why doesn't the world look like pic related then lmao. This is what Jewish prophets said it was

>>41288331
The gospels were written later. Decades later. They differ
All facts.