Thread 41288519

If NDEs are "just DMT releasing during trauma" or "just like dreams"...

>why do so many NDEs report floating over their own body?
>why do so many people report things they saw while floating over their body (like things nurses said) that turn out to be true?
>how do you explain their EEG flatlining, having no brain activity, yet having the NDE?
>people see crazy shit when smoking DMT, but people see consistent things (floating over their own body, life review, dead relatives, big grassy field, crystal city) in NDEs

I for one firmly believe in the afterlife thanks to NDEs and cannot wait for it.

Because humans are scared of death so it's pretty normal to think or feel that it has to be something else than perpetual non existence, but there isn't, and that's okay.

>>41288519 (OP)
If it is.... i don't have to believe it, i will just get there. Do i think OP is a cunt? Well, this is four chins, sure he is.

>>41288519 (OP)
Op no one deep into NDE research maintains disbelief of the afterlife lol

>>41288893
I'm not asking NDE researchers this, but just anyone on this board who thinks the afterlife is an empty void.

>>41288975
The people who think those things have never researched NDEs

What holds me back from fully believing is the inconsistencies between NDEs. One person has a out of body experience when another doesn't. Some don't see a tunnel. Others are left floating in the abyss. People in asian countries have different NDEs compared to westerners.

As someone who does believe there is an afterlife, NDEs are a very poor reason to believe so.

>>41288519 (OP)
Basically there are chemicals in the brain that are as strong as acid that under extreme conditions, which cause people to trip, but if oxygen is low in your body then the senses are not transmitting, so your imagination thinks you're outside of your body while it's on drug basically

>>41289294
>Spiritual experiences are not all the same
Yup, disproved

>>41288702
>but there isn't
Prove it

>>41288975
>the afterlife is an empty void
It's isn't void. You are looking at death from a personal consciousness perspective, as if this was absolute. You are deluded by idealism.

When you body dies it doesn't enter the void, it decays.

People want to believe in the afterlife because they are attached to some delusion that all they are is some mental impression of consciousness. This is way more deluded than the fact your body dies and decays.

This attachment is so crazy that people would rather have hallucinations and call them absolute than to accept death as a transformation.

Also, everything in this life is defined by its birth and death. Every moment only makes sense in this context and trying to force the idea that we are something abstract and idealistic goes against this fact. Again, delusion.

The simple and truthful solution is just to see, understand and accept life and death for what it is.

There can be a strong impulse to avoid this because fundamentally we have a survival instinct. However part of survival is also understanding the practical reality of our situation. And so survival should be steered towards realism instead of cheap cope.

>>41290408
Picrel is hilariously deluded. What is the exact moment of death? Can you pinpoint it precisely? You can't. Therefore all is infinite transformation. And the "all" is much bigger than you are.

>>41288519 (OP)
If you do believe it will happen then it must have a scientific explanation at some level of physics and math.

>>41289294
I think everyone goes through all the steps but they don't remember everything. The guides in NDEs tell them they won't remember everything.

>>41288519 (OP)
Yeah pretty much. I think we humans are only using very small percentage of our full potential during our stay on this plane, because there exist beings that are stealing all of our energy, and we're being kept in state of ignorance so they can keep doing it. This is no way to live

>>41288519 (OP)
If dmt is what takes you to the afterlife then what if you get shot straight through your pineal gland (or just get nuked I guess)

>>41288519 (OP)
The nde out of body vision was tested by hiding conspicuously out of place shit in the ceiling or wherever, no one ever said they saw it.
I do believe NDEs in general though.
Yeah it's pretty odd that everyone's NDE seems to follow the same script
Consciousness is existence, fundamentally
If you are unconscious for 2 hours, your body still exists, but your consciousness kind of doesn't. You don't experience any passage of time or void, it's just like one moment you're here the next you're elsewhere.
We don't really understand what consciousness even is and how it plays into the nature of reality. It's an important and open question.
Scifags always reply muh neurochemicals but that doesn't do it justice at all.
A chemical soup with thoughts and morals, and thoughts about thoughts. How does this arise from matter?
>>41288702
This is a massive cope for death fear though. That's probably the least scary version of afterlife

>>41290408
Then it's the same as perpetual non existence since you aren't able to remember your past life anyways, it doesn't matter if you die and live again from your perspective is just 1 life lol, at least isn't a hell-like thing

>>41291721
I would like to see the research you have done which definitively dismantles the arguments made by the long history of idealists who pretty much destroyed pure rationalism as a serious idea.

>>41289294
The subjective experience isn't useful, it's the objectively reported observations about the external world. That's a common view to have when you haven't researched NDEs. No serious person is excited about the subjective drug trip experiences

>>41294859
There have been experiments done with people who were resuscitated and claimed NDE. The room where it happened had pictures with symbols facing upwards placed near and facing the ceiling placed in it, so they could only be seen from above. People who reported NDE oobe were then asked what they saw, and none mentioned the signs. This makes me sceptical of claims of observing the external world. What has convinced you?

>>41294859
Don't be so quick to throw out subjective experience. It's only through my own experience that I can categorically call you another active agent as real as myself. If I was to only rely on pure objectivity then I must discard you and what you say as false because I cannot ever verify you or your being as real. It's only through taking my personal, subjective experience and concept and applying those to the concept of you that I can view you as a real person and not just hallucination of my senses.

>>41294916
You sound really stupid, how high are you?

>>41294934
I accept your concession. Now go educate yourself. You have no concept of what you even are.

>>41294944
The assumption that other people are sentient the same way you are is by definition not derived from your subjective experience. It is a deduction you make based on all the other things you have in common with them and the way they behave. "Pure objectivity" is meaningless. We arrive at the belief that others are sentient by reasoning, not direct access to their experience

>>41294881
As mentioned, incidents where they report information acquired while unconscious that they shouldn't have known. I.e. observation of events that occurred while they had no measurable brain activity, reporting of information not physically accessible to them such as numbers and object locations. The main driving power of the NDE evidence is in the large volume of examples.

>>41294916
Subjective experience is fine if you experienced it, but they're not useful to the rest of us who didn't experience them.

>>41294441
>The nde out of body vision was tested by hiding conspicuously out of place shit in the ceiling or wherever, no one ever said they saw it.
A clinically dead patient at Ohio State accurately reported hidden serial numbers on surgical lights, verified post-surgery.
Examples include NDE subjects reporting the year on hidden coins, numbers on top of ambulances, and detailed, sequential medical events.
Shared experiences are reported, though post-death or blind cases are less numerous and considered less robust.

https://coconote.app/notes/13cdb59f-a655-4ab2-9283-f02762ade61c
https://ytscribe.com/v/EJSUAmR-I1o

>>41291721
>reddit spacing

The first being to interact with me after I die I'm gonna be giving them a really hard time

>>41294859
That's kind of the scariest outcome, isn't it? Observations about the external world suggest NDEs are genuine afterlife, and then you go hallucinate your own subjectively created world alone for eternity.

>>41288519 (OP)
Nde are demonic tricks

>>41294961
You have come to your conclusion through your subjective experience. Or are you negating that? If that's the case then how can I ever be sure of you being real, as by your words, my subjective experience is not a valid metric.

>>41295640
Just you admitting demons exist proves afterlife exists too

>>41288519 (OP)
It's not that I don't believe in an afterlife, it's more just wishful thinking.

>>41291721
Good thing that the body is just a vehicle for the soul and doesn't matter in the long run

>>41291721

>trying to force the idea that we are abstract

Yet here you sit on a machine that operates off symbolic codes of relationships of abstracts, communicating with some being you believe exists on the other end of it, using strings of abstract symbols arranged in sequences to try to convince this *other* that your abstract thought about an abstract idea is ridiculous because we are not abstract creatures.

Interesting.

Those who think there is no afterlife, will get no afterlife. Either because you lack the belief to make it happen, or because your weak will makes room for others to dominate your will, so you'll either be enslaved or destroyed. People who put forth these ideas that promote "no afterlife" deserve either of these fates imo.

>>41297385
>Either because you lack the belief to make it happen, or because your weak will makes room for others to dominate your will,
I just don't want one, dude.

When I died I saw and felt nothing in such an intense way that could only be understood once they revived me. I'd done DMT in my life and other such drugs and I've heard if you use them you don't get the nde release, so maybe that's why I got nothing. Honestly, after that experience, I never want to die. It was horrible. Even being tortured would be better than that complete absence of everything. Not like you have consciousness to comprehend it, though. It was only conceivable after.

Anyway, that's why I don't believe there is anything. I've tried to lie to myself and say I didn't get access because I didn't truly believe in it before or that it just wasn't my time so that nothing is what I was shown, but I can't shake that, that's seriously all it is. Nothing. There's not really any logical reason there should be anything, either. It's all just wishful thinking.

>>41288702
This is true. Drugs and religion is simply the cope for this fact.
>>41290408
Well it would fall more on you to prove the afterlife exists and your shitty little diagram fails to do that. Why does the fact that you would simply return to the state you were before birth scare you? Is it because you want to cling to this fleeting moment of consciousness so badly you have to delude yourself into thinking there's more?

>>41297586
The NDE=DMT argument is almost baseless, there's no proof that the brain actually releases enough DMT for that kind of stuff to happen, we just know that mammals' brains have DMT in trace amounts far lower than what's necessary for a trip, the idea that the brain suddenly produces a ton of it is just a theory, so you not getting A NDE isn't related to you previous use of DMT.
On top of that NDE and DMT experiences are different. NDE don't see machine elves and DMT consumers don't see their dead loved ones or stuff laying in the neighbor's bedroom.