Thread 41290662

Which one is it Is God unconditionally loving and merciful, or ruthless and indifferent??

>inb4 doesn't exist

>>41290662 (OP)
Prisoner of itself

>>41290662 (OP)
To simply declare a binary answer to your dualistic question would not do the answer justice. So let me answer your question with another question, is one persons success another persons failure? Could God serve one persons interest without conflicting with another persons interest? Would a world where everyone has the same best interest in mind require the forfeiture of individuality?

>>41290662 (OP)
God was too nice so God fell into the strife He tried to annul, by being permissive He permitted Himself to be annulled.

>>41290662 (OP)
A criticism of the Christian concept of God leads inevitably to the same conclusion.—A nation that still believes in itself holds fast to its own god. In him it does honour to the conditions which enable it to survive, to its virtues—it projects its joy in itself, its feeling of power, into a being to whom one may offer thanks. He who is rich will give of his riches; a proud people need a god to whom they can make sacrifices.... Religion, within these limits, is a form of gratitude. A man is grateful for his own existence: to that end he needs a god.—Such a god must be able to work both benefits and injuries; he must be able to play either friend or foe—he is wondered at for the good he does as well as for the evil he does. But the castration, against all nature, of such a god, making him a god of goodness alone, would be contrary to human inclination. Mankind has just as much need for an evil god as for a good god; it doesn’t have to thank mere tolerance and humanitarianism for its own existence.... What would be the value of a god who knew nothing of anger, revenge, envy, scorn, cunning, violence? who had perhaps never experienced the rapturous ardeurs of victory and of destruction? No one would understand such a god: why should any one want him?—True enough, when a nation is on the downward path, when it feels its belief in its own future, its hope of freedom slipping from it, when it begins to see submission as a first necessity and the virtues of submission as measures of self-preservation, then it must overhaul its god.

>>41290723
>Would a world where everyone has the same best interest in mind require the forfeiture of individuality?
Yes but we never had much individuality to begin with. We are all +95% identical to eachother anyways. Same organs, same limb amount, same primal desires, same basic capabilities etc etc. The parts of us that are mildly different from eachother are typically shared by millions of other humans too

Its like we the worst of both worlds right now. Not homogeneous enough for a real utopia nor individualistic enough for real identity

>>41290662 (OP)
all 4

>>41290813
What's your ideal world?

>>41290662 (OP)
false dichotomies are a sign of a subpar education

>>41290937
Everyone merges into one entity thats experiences bliss and peace for eternity. There would be no one to fight, no one to suffer and no one to ruin anything. It would just be peaceful forever

The desires i have may want to live in a fantasy land surrounded by people i like but so long as individuals exist, conflicts are very hard to avoid. Everyone seeks their own happiness even if its as the expense of the happiness of others. Thats why i want the merger

>>41290662 (OP)
just look at the spheres bro

middle left n middle right

boaz and jachin nigga

>>41290989
that's just the sleep at the end of a kalpa. then we wake up and want to do stuff again.

>>41290989
Would you say the root of suffering is our circumstances or our perception of it? What if there was a way to transcend suffering by understanding it's true nature? If it were possible to transcend suffering would life not be the ultimate adventure ala Lord of the Rings?

>>41291015
Ideally boredom would be gone too so that doesnt happen
>>41291027
I believe its circumstantial but if transcending suffering were possible, it would be very hard sustain. Ideally, you may be able to teach humans to transcend suffering but pretty much all other mammals wouldnt have the capacity to understand the nature of suffering, much less reptiles or fish. If a disaster strikes (natural or otherwise) and the knowledge on how to do transcend suffering, suffering just begins again. Its not my ideal world

>>41291015
Ideally boredom would be gone too so that doesnt happen
>>41291027
I believe its circumstantial but if transcending suffering were possible, it would be very hard sustain. Ideally, you may be able to teach humans to transcend suffering but pretty much all other mammals wouldnt have the capacity to understand the nature of suffering, much less reptiles or fish. If a disaster strikes (natural or otherwise) and the knowledge on how to do transcend suffering is lost, suffering just begins again. Its not my ideal world

>>41291119
If you transcend suffering then would teaching anyone else how to matter? From my experience transcending suffering is a simple realization that stays with you for the rest of your existence upon the realization. It does not necessarily have to be a method or a means rather a simple piece of knowledge.

>>41291119
it doesn't happen because of boredom, it just happens on it's own. otherwise we wouldn't be here in the first place.

>>41291167
I have strange beliefs that makes it incredibly important that everyone escapes from suffering together. Ive spent years thinking about problems of identity, things like why im in this body specifically? How much of my brain would have to change for my soul to disappear? What part about birth creates a soul? That sort of thing

Ive come to the conclusion that it doesnt really make sense for different parts of the universe to have different souls. We are all just one universe experiencing everything from trillions of different bodies. In order words, me and a crocodile share the exact same soul (the universes soul) and if it suffers, im suffering even if this human body has no way of knowing it. Which is why its very very very important that im not suffering in any body, crocodile, frog or otherwise

Im aware of how schizophrenic this sounds

>>41291297
I mean no offense to you my friend but your ideas are not all too unfamiliar to me if you think about it the government and law enforcement in the western world follows that same philosophy. Collectivism is the law of the land in todays world even though it doesn't seem to help anyone. I have something to ask you though, what if my definition of hapiness is facing suffering head on and through the fire of the trials I face rising from the ashes and finding a happiness greater than a perfect utopia. From my personal experience accepting suffering then facing it head on leads to a happiness greater than what a perfect utopia could offer.

>>41291297
you will never defeat the crocodiles will to live

>>41291333
>what if my definition of hapiness is facing suffering head on and through the fire of the trials I face rising from the ashes and finding a happiness greater than a perfect utopia
Ive been thinking about this for so very long. You are a part of me thats happy with the way things works but there are many parts of me that are not. If i could change the way things work, it would make others happy but you unhappy (and many others), this is not a good solution and would require divine capabilities

I think that so long as we all have conflicting interests, there is no good solution. If you desire the struggle more than the utopia, id have to change you into desiring the utopia more which sounds a bit oppressive and would also require divine capabilities. Its despairing
>>41291352

>>41291352
Its too stoopid to have an "i want to unalive" option in its brain. Simply impossible

>>41291421
What if learning to face suffering head on changed the way you thought and lead you to happiness? Without your mind being altered but but experiencing the joy of triumph?

>>41290662 (OP)
If you look around you, the answer is extremely obvious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZYWOzRF1yA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC0HnTYu_OI

>>41291461
That would be fine overall. I probably would be more focusing on increasing that feeling of happiness rather than reducing the struggling
My mind just doesnt give me many treats sadly, i could solve a problem thats plagued me for years and id only get 5 hours of happiness as a reward. My brain chemistry rations out happiness like the soviet union rations out food

>>41291514
I've been exploring this idea for a while because I have difficulty comprehending it yet I know it to be true, accepting suffering and facing it leads to a happiness greater than any heaven or utopia could offer. It seems beyond my comprehension at the moment yet I've seen shimmers of it.

>>41290662 (OP)
Merciful to converted convicts, ruthless to little kids with cancer.

>>41291539
You are definitely on to something. On second thought, i do have goals that would satisfy a very deep itch in my gut. Its hard to grasp what that goal is but its like transcending my powerless. Its so very vague yet so very bright, buried from years of neglect
I dont see suffering as being a part of it but i dont think i have anywhere near as much of a grasp of it as you

>>41291544
Wouldn't artificial foods and alteration of the human genome by food and pharmaceutical companies be the cause of that? Hate God if you want to but would the cause of youth cancer be corporations putting profits over people? What's your plan to advocate for a more transparent and consumer oriented food and medicine?

>>41291560
We're all learning friend myself included what I will say from what my inner voice said to me is that the flames of struggle are the womb of the phoenix. When we rise from suffering by not avoiding it we rise from the grave of alchemical lead and attain the enlightenment of alchemical gold.

>>41291587
I wish you the best, its more happiness for me if you in succeed in your struggle to become gold

god is at war with lucifer who gave humanity free will but lucifer is fundamentally evil on this planet and god is good but it's a mixed bag so it's very complicated

>>41291628
Same to you anon! I wish you the best :)

>>41290662 (OP)
Indifferent

>>41290662 (OP)
God is a videogamer

>>41291633
There is no war.
It's not serious.

>>41290662 (OP)
Depends on the person. "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". What that really means is, there is a force of power beyond everything else, and how we tap into that determines what we receive from it. When you know that nature will flow with unlimited power, conditioned upon the nature of your awareness and conscience, then every act becomes important. God is an ahole in the past records because the consciousness of mankind was corrupted, and so when we collectively tapped into the flow of infinite power really bad shit happened alongside the good stuff. Its 100% our own karma coming back to us, just several destroyed universes stars and planets removed from our original fuck ups.
Loving God means loving his plan to fix everything, and working in conjunction with that plan so he cam remake the universe your soul lives in into an eternal paradise that won't get utterly fucked up again.

>>41290662 (OP)
God is both righteous and merciful.
It sounds like a contradiction or completely impossible until you read the gospel.

don't disrespect any of the gods.

- jvipter.
they are your friends. and/or your only friends.

>>41290662 (OP)
>>inb4 doesn't exist
What's 2+2 and no don't tell me 4 give me a proper answer.

>>41291539
If I were to remove your arms and legs with a bread knife and then put a bullet in the back of your head once I am finished you would have experienced unfathomable amounts of suffering but you would also be incapable of internalizing any sort of message from it as that would require clear, level headed reflection, which I would bet is near impossible the state between being forcibly dismembered and having a bullet inserted into your brain. For the majority of things forced into existence in this universe, this is the kind of suffering they experience. It is religious cope to think there is some sort of greater meaning to an animal being ripped to pieces so another can survive. This cope is the big lie of religion, that is it all means something or that is some sort of hidden lesson we are to learn (we have to ignore that there is a so called perfect, all powerful God that could instantly teach us this, far more effectively with no suffering required but doesn't for 'reasons'). A good, all loving God and the problem of evil have yet to be reconciled after 2000 years of monotheism, it must be discarded and humans must realize that the only good is found in the minds of humanity and is not found in this universe or in God, who is the author of this universe and the father of suffering and evil.

>>41292288
Things also found in the bible (and commanded by God):
>Thievery
>Rape
>Human sacrifice
>Genocide
2000 years later Christians still don't have a satisfactory answer to why God wanted these things to happen. Might makes right is about the best answer they can come up with.

>>41292426
God's position in the book of Job is basically "who the fuck are you to tell me what is right and wrong?"

>>41292436
Yes. I am powerful, you are not. Bow to me, or else.

The one where He loves you even though you made this thread

>>41290662 (OP)

Despite being raised devoutly orthodox christian, im not a big religious guy but thought id weigh in anyways. If God were to interfere with human suffering, (i.e If God exists why do people die from cancer?) human suffering would have no meaning. If suffering has no meaning, neither does the opposite. If suffering and happiness have no meaning, then life is pointless. But then again, stating that God has any sort of inherent "view" on human life (loving and merciful or ruthless and so on) is in my opinion flawed. When an artist creates a painting, or a sculptor creates a sculpture, the act of creation is the only part that typically holds much value in the artists life. Everything afterwards is more or less secondary to the very act of creation.

>>41292418
>If I were to remove your arms and legs with a bread knife and then put a bullet in the back of your head
I'd like to see you try
>A good, all loving God and the problem of evil have yet to be reconciled after 2000 years of monothiesm
Well, I harbor no alms towards any being of any sort but if I were to call God anything I would say that God is naive. An entity beyond comprehension cannot be so easily described but the occult and Gnostic doctrines seem to imply that God created us because God wanted to exist. And when God (Adam & Eve) fell from the Garden of Eden (pure existence) God was not aware that suffering would be created too. The doctrine of the Tree of Life and the Qlippoth explain the nature of this in depth and outside of the limited speculation that a conversation would allow I suggest you study these concepts if you want to know more. But yeah if I had to assign God any such quality I wouldn't say evil, just naive. So if you wanted to get sacreligious you could say that our existence is not created out of maliciousness, but is more like a failed abortion. However according to theory of alchemy there is a way to reconcile this suffering and turn it into something greater, alike the pheonix rising from the ashes, if you're too cynical that you've given up hope then you have nothing to offer to those who are suffering and wish for hope and your cynicism isn't my problem. That's my problem with people like you, you act like your cynicism serves some sort of purpose but it does nothing to help the world and in fact makes it worse, and I can say as a fact without a shadow of a doubt I've offered hope to people in hopeless situations many times, so what the fuck do you have to offer the world?

>>41290662 (OP)
God is justice. Merciful to the good and ruthless to the evil. Hope that clears things up

>>41290662 (OP)
>unconditionally loving and merciful
This comes from El, the father of the Canaanite pantheon.
>ruthless and indifferent
This comes from Yahweh, the new addition to the pantheon, a god of storms and war.

El and Yahweh were merged into one, but remnants of this incongruency are still visible in the Bible. God seems to contradict his own nature and words because you're reading about two different gods duct taped together.

>>41293130
Why should anyone have to lift a finger to solve God's mess, especially when God can solve said mess instantly and without effort. Why is God's mess my cross? Why does God the right to make that decision for me? Why is the world worth anyone's time and effort? What you call cynicism I call realism. You like to hide behind falsities, dogma and delusions that protect you from the world, I face the world as it is. You are no different from the Christian who is hopefully clinging to dogma to avoid existential dread. Good luck and continue seething.

If you're not sure the Bible is the word of God watch: youtube.com/watch?v=9l5ZEsXjNVI
1 Cor. 15:3-4: “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:”
How to know you're saved: youtube.com/watch?v=EAtR40sue5M

Romans 3:23: “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
Jesus Christ is God who has come to earth from heaven in the flesh. He died as a sinless sacrifice for the sins of the whole world to save you from eternal hell, the punishment for your sin. He was buried, then resurrected and is now in heaven. John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Romans 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
John 10:28: "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
God wants to forgive you, but you have a choice: Either choose this evil world and be punished along with it, or choose to submit to the will of God and be saved. Your own deeds, no matter how good you think they are, can NEVER justify you. You're corrupt and need to be saved. Romans 5:9: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, in what HE did for you. Only He can wash away all of your sins with His blood. Salvation is a gift, it can't be earned. Do you choose the righteousness of God or your righteousness? Heaven or hell?

Eph. 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

youtube.com/watch?v=BbPchtYsXNo
youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntc

>>41290662 (OP)
>God

Yeah what does that word mean? What is a God and why do you complain so much so often?

You seem like a big insufferable faggot to be honest, what ever you are, machine or otherwise.