Thread 41305716

### Relevant Study on Early Pregnancy Loss and Implantation Failure

One of the most comprehensive and recent studies addressing the high rates of early pregnancy loss, including failures of fertilized eggs to implant in the uterine wall (preimplantation loss), is titled **"Preimplantation loss of fertilized human ova: estimating the unobservable"** by David A. Savitz, published in *Human Reproduction Update* in 2021. This paper synthesizes data from epidemiological, demographic, laboratory, and IVF studies to estimate losses that are difficult to observe directly, as many occur before a pregnancy is detectable.

#### Key Findings
- **Preimplantation Loss (Failure to Attach)**: Approximately 40-50% of fertilized human ova never successfully implant in the uterine wall. This is the highest-risk stage of early development, where the fertilized egg (zygote) fails to embed in the endometrium due to factors like genetic abnormalities, suboptimal uterine receptivity, or timing issues.
- **Post-Implantation Losses**: Once implantation occurs (detectable via human chorionic gonadotropin, or hCG, hormone around 6-12 days post-fertilization), about **one-third (approximately 33%)** of these early pregnancies are spontaneously lost. This includes:
- ~25% subclinical losses (before symptoms like a missed period, often mistaken for a late period).
- The remaining ~8-11% as recognized miscarriages after clinical detection.
- **Overall Loss Rate**: Combining pre- and post-implantation stages, 60-67% of fertilized eggs do not result in a live birth, meaning only 33-40% progress to term. These estimates focus on couples in their prime reproductive years (ages 20-30) and account for variables like fertilization rates (64-90% in the presence of sperm) and sterility factors.

>>41305716 (OP)
- The study emphasizes that these losses are a natural part of human reproduction, with prior estimates varying widely (10-70%) due to detection challenges, but converging on substantial early attrition.

You can access the full open-access paper here: [PMC8287936](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8287936/).

#### Broader Context from Related Research
Supporting studies echo these figures. For instance, a 2016 review in *Reproductive BioMedicine Online* analyzed hCG data and anatomical studies, estimating total prenatal losses at 40-60% from fertilization to birth, with preimplantation failures at 10-40%. Similarly, a 2024 literature review in the *Middle East Fertility Society Journal* notes that only about 30% of all conceived pregnancies (natural or assisted) result in live births, implying ~70% overall loss, much of it tied to implantation issues like chromosomal errors or endometrial factors.

These rates highlight that early embryo loss is extremely common—far exceeding the 10-20% miscarriage rate for clinically recognized pregnancies—and often goes unnoticed.

#### Implications for Reproductive Ethics (e.g., Pro-Life Perspectives)
The high natural rate of preimplantation loss (where a fertilized egg fails to attach) is frequently discussed in bioethics debates. Some argue it underscores the biological reality that not all fertilized eggs develop into viable pregnancies, challenging strict pro-life views that equate fertilization with full personhood (e.g., by questioning why nature "terminates" so many potential lives without ethical intervention). Others counter that this doesn't diminish the value of those that do implant, emphasizing intent and viability instead. These are philosophical interpretations of the science; the data itself remains neutral, focusing on observable reproductive biology rather than moral judgments. If you'd like more papers on the ethical angles or specific critiques, let me know!

Tincan slop.

>>41305716 (OP)
>argument against pro life
Anon, pro-life is against abortion and abortion is child-murder. There can be no argument for child-murder, do you understand this?

>>41305722
>>41305716 (OP)
tldr what's your point

Assuming you believe rights should be granted only to humans and that life begins at conception a strong argument can be made that sex and procreation is immoral because most children die before birth.
It makes more sense to grant rights on the basis of sentience or being conscious, unborn humans don't become conscious until at least a couple weeks into pregnancy and by then most survive until birth.

People will criticize veganism for crop deaths but ignore the unborn deaths during the first few weeks of pregnancy, it's about wherever there's rights violations or not or utilitarianism

>>41305722
>If you'd like more papers on the ethical angles or specific critiques, let me know!
If you're going to use chatGPT to make posts for you, you might want to leave it's uniquely identifiable brown-nosing out of it.

>>41305734
I think there can be but it doesn't matter, there can be arguments about what a child is and when rights should begin to be granted maybe you believe at conception and I believe at first subjective experience

>>41305750
Finding studies and summarizing them is bad?
Want to address any of my arguments?
>>41305752
>>41305740

>>41305752
That seems arbitrary. The most consistent position is from the first point of viability.

>>41305752
Even if you don't believe in human life at early stages of fetus development, there is still a potential human life, and that is killed.

>>41305761
Pulling up chatGPT because you want to argue in favor of abortion but don't have confidence you can do it on your own to link you studies by retarded liberals sucks and is gay. If you're going to advocate for the death of infants you should be honest enough to just do it on your own. Your actual position is that abortion is convenient for the mother, it has nothing to do with whether or not the fetus is a person. That's already making a lot of assumptions that operate on moral framework you don't actually abide by and only entertain to debate people like me.

>>41305764
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by arbitrary technically any point is arbitrary but I think I might know what you mean.
Viability changes based on location and time period but the other problem with granting rights or not granting rights on the basis of viability instead of being conscious (first subjective experience/having a mind) is I assume you mean
Viable outside the womb AND "human"

But then you must come Up with an arbitrary definition of human.
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40952000/#q40952006

>>41305716 (OP)
Nobody is fucking your babylonian abortion whores. Kys

>>41305779
No, I mean reasonably able to be born. As in a fertilized egg that the body has not destroyed and will develop into an embryo. Stop linking shit, nobody has the patience to read paragraphs of other people's writing. I'm not talking to the anon in the archive, I'm talking to you. Just paraphrase.

>>41305716 (OP)
100% of all people die, i'm still against murder

>>41305779
Also this thread
https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/18059907/#q18060289
>>41305802
I'm the anon in the archive, I think "human" is arbitrary. So is "made in the image of God"
>>41305812
Would you allow your child on a rollercoaster that would probably kill them?

>>41305826
no, but a roller coaster is optional to continue living. successful implanting into the uterine wall is. still wouldn't kill them at any point

>>41305826
Well that's good, you can live as an arbitrary human and we'll live as real ones. Enjoy being an outlaw you imbecile

>>41305831
>>41305826
>uterine wall is
should be *isn't optional. anyway the argument is silly, bizarre, and wrong

>>41305716 (OP)

>>41305722

God plays hands with wildcards. What do you want?

The odds look weird, because we were built with asymmetry. There's a fucking reason, that all complex action appears like a dice roll.

Some of us do more than look at the Plinko board, and think the outputs don't mean anything significant about the inputs.

Those replies to the OP, ironically, holy coping lmao

>>41305831
>>41305838
But reproduction is optional, all humans could choose to stop reproducing

>>41305853
not for the species to live. roller coasters remain optional either way

>>41305853
>humans
>stop reproducing
they can never hide their anti-human devilry

>>41305852
Do you think I've made a good argument? I'm sure there's things which can increase or decrease the chances of a fertilized egg implanting or not
Is it manslaughter if a sexually active woman doesn't get at least 8 hours of sleep every night and instead spends an extra hour or two watching Netflix?
>>41305859
But that's you presupposing the species should continue living. Would you sacrifice a born child by executing them to save the human race?

>>41305864
Someone can be anti natalist and still pro reproduction, for example someone could want humans to continue existing at least for now, humans shouldn't kill themselves or stop breeding until they have first eliminated all other conscious life on earth because wild animal suffering is the worst thing in the world.

>>41305776
>Your actual position is that abortion is convenient for the mother, it has nothing to do with whether or not the fetus is a person.

No something can be more convenient and still immoral, for example being vegan is a bit more inconvenient than then being a meat eater.
>That's already making a lot of assumptions that operate on moral framework you don't actually abide by and only entertain to debate people like me.

It's an internal critique

>>41305920
Eating meat is not immoral.
We are going to kill you because you oppose men marrying female children.

Marry little girls.
> An Afghan girl stares at Warrant Officer Troy D. Anstine, executive officer, Headquarters and Service Company, 1st Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment, as he explains her coloring assignment at the school near Forward Operating Base Geronimo March 31. She cautiously entered the school compound after the dodgeball game and is the first girl to attend class at the school. Marines said they hope to encourage more girls from the area to attend class in the future. Photo by Sgt. Brian Tuthill
>
> Just before the game had finished, an 8-year-old girl arrived to the school with three other young boys, who quickly joined the group of students while she kept her distance outside the compound.
>
> After the game, the school\u2019s Pashto interpreter returned and students went back to their studies. They recited and wrote Pashto numbers and then took on coloring assignments requiring them to pair the numbers to colors and color in the appropriate areas. The girl slowly and cautiously made her way into the compound and joined the class already in session.
>https://www.dvidshub.net/news/47641/marines-teach-nawa-students-dodgeball-first-girl-attends-school

NOTHING WRONG WITH
MERELY LOVING LIFE
AND SEEKING TO
PROTECT IT

>>41305770
Sure, go raise that rape/crack baby.

>>41306346
I can believe it's wrong to kill toddlers who are crack babies and not personally raise them

>>41306346
There's a waiting list of great highly vetted couples waiting to adopt newborns

didnt read
there can be only murder of the enemy.
extra terrestial aka non native aka non gaian aka non mother earth entities (or entities that do not live in accordance with golden rules of the cosmos)
this should be standard and common procedure
if you do not agree, you are from the enemy, from the enemy parasitic consciousness and should be dealt with accordingly too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfeLA1jOXl8

>>41309592
I think we should respect the rights of aliens

Killing unborn babies is simply inhuman. It should be avoided at all costs except for exceptional circumstances. There's nothing else to be said really. You either don't care about the inherent value of human life or you do. I choose to do so.